Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[mavsfan41]

I am only familiar with UnaBombaH and he was town last time so he’s gotta he scum this time!

Vote: UnaBombaH

[mavsfan41]

@Drew-Sta: you claimed miller in post 79 right?

Vote: Drew-Sta

[mavsfan41]

I’m the miller

[mavsfan41]

@Drew-Sta: i see you did confirm your claim with 81. Sorry, I saw 79 and posted immediately.

[mavsfan41]

I’m guessing there can’t be two millers in the game.

@Drew-Sta: I respect the hell out of your fake claim. You link to the miller role says anyone who is miller should reveal that first post. You waited till everyone posted and when no one claimed miller, you took it figuring there wasn’t a miller and you could defend against a cop’s guilty claim. Heads up move! I respect the fuck outta that! Sorry I didn’t claim first post and screwed it up.....

[mavsfan41]

OK, so apparently I'm an Innocent Child. I had no choice in the matter on when it'd be revealed.

So basically unless someone can protect me tonight I'm a dead man.

It’s either you or me that’s gonna be NK’ed. You’ve now got a 50/50

[mavsfan41]

My first post was an RVS. Every time I’ve been in a game with a miller, that claim is tricky to deal with as it can be an easy fake claim. My philosophy with miller is that you want to claim before night 1 but not necessarily in post 1. (Also, if you’re not suspicious and a potential investigation target night 1, claiming day 1 I think can be put off. Just my opinion but that’s how I feel about the role.)

So I debated letting this play out, but if people bought Drew’s fake claim it would’ve been so much harder claiming miller later and having it be believed esp since Drew could say he claimed immediately wtf are we getting a miller claim now. Also, I want to see if anyone refutes my claim or how quickly Drew is bus’ed by scum. But now that I think about it, perhaps holding off was the best way to go..... my bad. But I got you Drew.... so.... push?

[mavsfan41]

So this is probably going to be a little convoluted but I hope not......

Drew’s miller claim had to come after everyone had a chance to post assuming the miller would claim with their first post. If he’s got scum mates, then he KNOWS they’re not the miller and MUST ONLY wait for the townies to post without a claim to snatch up that role. Here are the low posters:
Riabi. Luca Blight. Saladman27. I’m guessing one is likely scum as Drew can allow them to be low posters and be sure they’re not miller cause he KNOWS they’re not miller. I mean sure, I was in that group till 30 minutes ago and he still claimed (so maybe a slightly hasty fake claim).

As for a list of players who didn’t push Drew at all (and potential scum mates):
George Bailey. UnaBombaH. Prana Devil.
My best guess would be George Bailey but nothing more than a gut feeling.

The rest of the players pushed Drew unprovoked with townie posts which is something I feel his scummates wouldn’t do this early. And it’s too early for bus’ing to commence so I feel comfortable saying they’re town.

[mavsfan41]

@Tanner: good point. You’re not wrong with the criteria I’ve set but post 102 strikes me as townie. Knightmare pushes George Bailey (who is in the potential scum pile) about their push on Far Side (town pile) instead of Prana Devil (potential scum grouping).

[mavsfan41]

I’m starting to think that there’s not two millers in the game. The circumstances around the fake claim suggest there aren’t. Drew-Sta was racking up the votes and only then did he decide to claim. I think the fake claim of miller was a “break glass in case of emergency” type thing in which his hand was forced. So that would make sense as to why he decided to fake claim miller with 4 players having only a single post.

Now I feel slightly better about the George Bailey/Prana Devil thing with regards to Knightmare.

[mavsfan41]

Oh, 2 Miller claims. lol that's brilliant.

Though I'd say not to rush with the Day. Mavs, how come you didn't claim first post?

pedit: I'm not sure. 2 Millers isn't impossible, but I guess it's more likely one of them is lying.

I’ll preface this with I think you’re town, post 67 picks Persivul over Drew where I feel scum wouldn’t pick this battle or push against a vote for Drew.

By why didn’t you ask Drew-Sta why he didn’t claim miller first post rather than claim it in 79 which was his 8th post of the game? Just curious.

[mavsfan41]

@Prana Devil: with a counter-claim, that means at least one is scum right? If I were scum and fake claiming Drew’s miller claim, that would effectively be trading one scum for the miller (drew flips miller and I’m lynched as a liar day 2). That’s such a horrible deal for scum and why would I fake claim a miller to force a mislynch of a miller? Drew fake claimed miller cause he thought he could get away with it. Or else he should just fake claim cop/nurse as a last resort. That way a counterclaim outs the cop/nurse. And he’s trading one scum for a townie power role. But to think scum!Mavs would fake counterclaim a miller to force a mislynch of miller!Drew is ludicrous.

Also, quick note: for Drew to fake claim miller, he needed everyone to post first (to see if they’d claim miller) before he could make the fake claim assuming no one was miller. He was not the last person to post, that honor belongs to Saladman27. So if Drew didn’t fake claim with his first couple of posts but only fake claimed AFTER Saladman27 posted, methinks Saladman27 is town. Drew was also the second to last person to post meaning Saladman27 was the ONLY person left to post after Drew had entered the game. In simple terms, Drew had his miller fake claim ready to start the game. Posted but didn’t claim miller in fear of a possibility that Saladman27 could potentially be a miller.

The official mavs Potential scum teammates as of now are any of:
Riabi
George Bailey
Luca Blight
UnaBombaH
Prana Devil

Honorable mention:
Knightmare (Tanner does bring up a good point)

Thoughts?

[mavsfan41]

@Drew-Sta: what’s your feelings on George Bailey?

[mavsfan41]

@George Bailey: so you’d rather let scum!Drew-Sta off the hook and lynch someone who might be town rather than someone extremely likely to be scum? I think you should’ve just bus’ed him rather than try this damage control plan.

George Bailey/Drew-Sta and anyone have a guess on the third?

Also who said anything about a vig? We might not even have a vig in the game. One of you guys hasta be scum bulletproof for you to believe there’s a vig.

@PranaDevil: I had never considered a double scum miller fake claim. Damn!!!! Next time I’m scum I’m stealing that one. That’s brilliant! Alas, not clever enough to have thought of that for this to be the case here though

[mavsfan41]

@Riabi: your 192 suggests lynching BOTH the claimed millers? Wtf? When Drew flips scum (aka he fake claimed miller) wouldn’t that basically pseudo confirm me as a miller? Lynching me next basically rids town of a mostly confirmed townie. By deciding to lynch me after Drew flips scum is implying it’s more likely that Drew and I are both scum fake claiming miller than the more likely scenario that there’s one miller in the game and I was assigned the role.

[mavsfan41]

This whole vig should target the miller is dumb right? Drew flipping scum would effectively give credibility to my miller CC and therefore you’d be killing what is more likely to be confirmed town. Let scum NK players who would be suspected town. Also, why aren’t more people voting Drew?
Here’s what’s going on:
1) Drew fake claimed miller (a role that will give a cop a guilty) as scum to cover a guilty investigation believing there wasn’t a miller in the game
2) I’m lying and am scum (vote me if you think this is the cases. My vote count at 0 should tell you that for people who have suggested I’m lying but haven’t voted me. Cowards.)
3) there’s two millers and an IC. (I want this to actually be the scenario cause that would be nuts)

Also, this whole vig theory was brought up by George Bailey as a half-baked reason for NOT voting Drew and suggesting the vig should take him out. I think there isn’t a vig and George Bailey wants a potential mislynch than a Drew lynch as his scum buddy OR as scum together one of them has a bulletproof role (maybe even Drew) so they believe a vig is in the game AND if he targets Drew, the kill won’t go through.

@George Bailey: your vote is on Saladman27. Say you get what you want and Saladman27 is lynched. And there is also a vig in the game. Who do you believe the vig should target during the night?

[mavsfan41]

There’s only one way to find out........ let’s lynch Drew. When he flips scum, tomorrow y’all can foolishly debate whether I’m an actual miller or if I fake claimed miller (if you think this is actually the case, please please please vote me now)... or just wake up tomorrow to see my flip when the vig kills me for..... reasons?

[mavsfan41]

Tanner’s 273 & 274 are EXACTLY on point!

[mavsfan41]

Whoops...... sorry about that! You both have similar avatars. It was an honest mistake.

PERSIVUL’S 273 & 274 are on point. Thanks for the correction.

Lynching what is almost certainly scum day 1 is a blessing for town.

[mavsfan41]

@Drew-Sta: you’re right. If you do actually flip miller, I’m gonna be lynched tomorrow no doubt about it. I agree with that 100%. I think it’s waaay more likely that you’re scum who fake claimed miller than there being 2 millers in the game. We shall see (hopefully). If you do flip miller (I don’t think this is the case) day 2 I’m gonna be like “so there were two millers in the game, huh” right as EVERYONE votes for me. And then I flip miller as well. And town is like “well oh fuck.” But thankfully I’ll have been lynched and don’t hafta deal with town in day 3 being like wtf do we do now?! My first post in the dead thread when I’m lynched day 2 after you flip miller today will be “whoops, my bad.” Deal?

[mavsfan41]

So unless I have a conf. on mavs tomorrow, I think I'm going to vote there at the end of the day 2.

Plus he's a good enough player - we will get a lot of good content from him before he's gone anyway.

I will OMGUS you so hard

[mavsfan41]

Glad we're on the same page then.

Although, if this flips green, would that change your read on Mav?

I can’t believe I’m saying this... but might there be two millers? (Full disclosure, I’ve tunneled on George Bailey pretty bad) but his laughable defense with this above quote suggests George knows Drew will flip town and is clearing himself of that fiasco.

I could also see a scenario where George is scum buddies with Drew and trying to push someone else. Even suggesting that Drew survive today only to be taken out by a hypothetical vig is scum enough for him to deflect pursuing Drew.

Idk what the deal with George is but either way I just don’t like it.
I also don’t get why George would say the quote above when it’s all but assumed the case would be if Drew flips scum, I would be the lynch day 2 (I get it but that would also assume me being scum would fake a miller CC which in no scenario would be ideal for any scum player). Lynching me day 2 regardless of what Drew flips has been discussed to some extent and I don’t get it. I flip miller. Cool, everyone knew that and scum gets a free pass.

In conclusion, I’d actually be okay with a George Bailey lynch instead of a Drew lynch but I think they’re prob both scum. Anyone else have any solid read on George?

@George: same question you posed but now directed at you. What would you do if Drew flips green? You voting me? You imply that by Drew flipping green that I’m lying about my miller claim and would vote me right? Is this the case?

[mavsfan41]

Also, @mav - why now are you considering the possibility of two millers, right at the tail end of the day? What has changed your mind?

Your contribution and how you’ve stayed the course. Also cause I’m reading George pretty hard as scum and he seems as though he might know you’ll flip miller and is trying to gain points when you do.

Don’t get me wrong, I think his posts also fit if you two are scum buddies.

@farside: yep. I know both of them have mentioned that. I responded to una’s post. Tanner I’m getting townie vibes from and believe his posts are in better faith.

[mavsfan41]

@mav - when I flip green, will you offer yourself up as D2 lynch barring unforseen cop information that suggests another scum target?

Whoops. Missed this, didn’t deliberately dodger this.

No I would not. I’m miller dude. If I were to offer myself up, it’d be more of a bluff to see who jumped on quickly for an easy lynch then go after those people. My question to town would be about what you hope to achieve with my lynch? Like sure, you can hope I flip scum but I’ll flip miller. And y’all better have a plan after that!

[mavsfan41]

@Drew-Sta: regardless of your flip, it’s gonna be very interesting. Scum and I will play a weird WIFOM form of chicken. Town will indefinitely doubt my miller claim. This puts scum in a weird spot where I’m Schrodinger’s town. Scum can avoid NK’ing me assuming town will eventually lynch me. The longer I last as pseudo town, inevitably town will become more and more doubtful of my role and eventually lynch me. I get that. It’s a tough spot but thankfully I won’t be forced to be part of the group that makes that decision. I’m guessing I’m gonna be safe from a NK for the game as scum will consider me a time bomb to town and won’t bother wasting a NK on me believing town will eventually lynch me. So to sum it up, I expect to be around till enough townies get paranoid to lynch me. Idk when that will be. Maybe it’s day 2 maybe it’s right before lylo.

[mavsfan41]

@Drew: I’ll answer your 365 in a subsequent post.

With regards to George:
144, 156, & 158 ALL suggests the possibility of a double miller. This in combination with (144 again) and 150 provides an out for George to NOT vote Drew with the reasoning of allowing a vig to take him out. With the way he was suggesting this, he believes this is the scenario. This is enough for George to vote elsewhere. (Personally I don’t like the one-sided giving Drew an out and omitting how both millers would be hypothetically taken out by a vig. My omission here is weird.)

Now in 352 he’s suggesting that if Drew flips green, I’m lying. This doesn’t make sense with your double miller belief. The above mentioned posts suggest two millers is likely (why you refuse to vote Drew) but here you suggest that IF Drew flips green (aka miller) would farside (who does buy my claim) changer her view on me. This means George believes a double miller if it allows him to not vote Drew but if Drew flips miller, I’m fake claiming meaning there aren’t two millers. Why not allow me to be taken out by a vig like you suggested the same about Drew? Why would Drew flipping town destroy your double miller theory?

The most likely scenario here would be that George and Drew are scum buddies (George’s belief of a two miller setup as a reason to protect Drew) but possibly also George but NOT Drew setting the stage for when he knows Drew will flip town. Thoughts?

[mavsfan41]

@mav: Do you think, given your future status as Shrodinger's town (BTW, I very much like that phrase), you should push for your own lynch to ensure town does not have such confusion moving forward?

Day 2, nah. Before lylo, sure I suppose. Let’s see what the numbers are and how many scum are left before deciding what day.

IF you flip miller, my lynch day 2 would put town 1 mislynch in day 3 from a lylo situation in day 4 as days 1-3 would result in mislynches

IF you flip scum, that would give town an extra day before lylo and therefore my day 2 lynch isn’t necessary at that point.

The biggest question I have about the possibility of two millers is: why would scum!Drew fake claim miller? My possible answers are:
1) what I said in 107. You believed that miller would claim first post and when everyone had posted and no one claimed, you thought it was safe to claim
2) you said “fuck it” and claimed hoping there wasn’t one in the game BUT if there was, suggest the possibility of a two miller setup

Number 2 is too risky cause even with you throwing the idea of a double miller setup, you must’ve known you’d be fucked if you got CC’ed. Even if you decided to do this thinking the reward outweighed this risk, you must’ve known what a miller claim would result in. Hell, everyone seems to believe mine (if you think I’m lying, vote now) but still some want me lynched day 2.
Number 1 is the more likely scenario but although I very much believed this to be the case, it seems weird for you to post that far into the game assuming a miller would’ve come forward with 4 players at one post. Too much risk.

I don’t have an ideal reason scum!Drew fake claims miller unless you believed it to be a premature last resort to throw off the pressure you were receiving but at page 5, it seems far too soon. But post 81 is just icky. It seems weird. And now that I think of it, you and George are the same aren’t you? Why does 81 say you’ll be the obv NK but I should push for my own lynch day 2? Wtf?

Both of you have this same theory that Drew should be taken out at night (George saying you should be vig’ed) and you’re saying you should targeted by scum BUT me, I should be lynched day 2.

Oh now I’m starting to definitely think you’re both scum.

[mavsfan41]

@ George and Drew: why are you guys playing with different miller rules for Drew (saying he should be vig’ed or the obv NK) and me (pushing for my own lynch day 2 seemingly regardless of the Drew flip)?

[mavsfan41]

Sorry, dead by day two. I'm the obvious mafia kill, and I honestly don't think it's wise for me to try and 'fake it' to simply be a hero. Better to do my duty and help town.

And yes, I am.

Why have you stated that I should push for my day 2 lynch? The above applies to miller!Drew, shouldn’t it apply to me?

[mavsfan41]

Sorry, dead by day two. I'm the obvious mafia kill, and I honestly don't think it's wise for me to try and 'fake it' to simply be a hero. Better to do my duty and help town.

And yes, I am.

Miller!Drew - as the miller, I’m the NK. Don’t worry about me guys

@mav: Do you think, given your future status as Shrodinger's town (BTW, I very much like that phrase), you should push for your own lynch to ensure town does not have such confusion moving forward?

Also miller!Drew - as the miller, mavs you should push for your own lynch come day 2

This is weird coming from an actual miller!Drew.

[mavsfan41]

@Drea: there’s two miller claims. The issue I have is that you and George seem to have different resolution ideas.
For you: NK’ed by mafia (your 81) or vig’ed (George’s 144 at the bottom). Either way, both are saying no worries about Drew’s miller, night actions will resolve that one
For me: I should be proactive and push for my own lynch day 2 (your 356 and has been mentioned in subsequent posts) and George’s 352 but his is a little more complicated. He pushes the very real possibility of two millers but seems to suggest if you flip miller that I should be lynched day 2. This would suggest I faked my CC and there are NOT two millers which is a clear contradiction from the handful of posts suggesting that exact scenario.

Shouldn’t both millers have a similar resolution? Why should I be proactive in securing my own lynch day 2 but your resolution will come via night actions. In fact, you suggest you’re the obvious kill but me, I won’t be the obvious kill? And the longer I stick around, the worse off town is. Shouldn’t that also apply to you? And shouldn’t you have stated that somewhere? This just strikes me as you made up town reaction to a miller claim then when presented with another miller claim, you seemed to have altered your course significantly.

[mavsfan41]

@PranaDevil: let me try to clarify this. Drew’s 81 was the resolution of the miller role. This was when he believed to be the only miller. If/when he is lynched, I will be the only unresolved miller claim come day 2 with Drew gone. Therefore it’s the same situation as one unresolved miller claim. So why shouldn’t his 81 apply to that scenario as well in day2? Instead Drew suggests I should push my own lynch which wouldn’t line up with his “let me be NK’ed by mafia.” In order words, suggesting an unresolved miller would attract mafia’s attention and scare them to target him at night, why then would he suggest an unresolved miller claim push their own lynch? Drew’s view of the miller role and how it should be resolved has changed. 81 was with one miller claim at that point. Day 2 (presumably after Drew’s lynch) there will be one miller claim as well. Does that make sense? It’s more how the single miller claim should be resolved.

[mavsfan41]

@Prana Devil: I actually hate that claim from Persivul. It’s extremely easy to fake as scum. I claimed miller and if Persivul is scum he knows I’m not his scum buddy and that I’m likely not fake claiming so he can take a pretty low risk gamble and say I’m miller in an attempt to validate his claim.

As for the night kill, Farside’s death does link to Persivul. In addition to that, Farside did express how even if Drew flipped miller, she would fight against my lynch day 2. With her gone, there’s now less resistance to lynch me and if I’m lynched, when I flip miller, that will give Persivul’s claim more credit. I think the NK of farside might have been twofold as just described. I would vote Persivul but voting someone on V/LA seems in bad faith. So I’ll wait to do so.

I will say, two types of cops with two millers does make sense right?

[mavsfan41]

Meant to look up the farside post, it’s 282.

@Drew-Sta: so there were two millers in the game, huh

[mavsfan41]

New theory, with UnaBombaH trying to render Wake88 useless, scum doesn’t need to kill Wake88 at all. And maybe never depending on how much Wake88 decides to contribute. Him being unlynchable from a mafia perspective isn’t great as they need the widest range of potential mislynches, but Farside definitely contributed more so she was more of a threat to scum. I think Wake88 sticking around does throw some suspicion on UnaBombaH. (Or I guess they could’ve WIFOM’ed the nurse believing the nurse would target Wake88 making him unkillable.) thoughts?

[mavsfan41]

@Luca: your 406, 406, 410, and 415 ALL throw shade on UnaBombaH but you don’t vote him. Why not? Your only vote came via RVS and that’s where you left it. I understand you were catching up but aside from UnaBombaH (who you don’t decide to vote) you really don’t offer much. This strikes me as scum trying to fence sit.

Your 366 post is strange too. You agree with a post that has been heavily criticized for being lazy and has lead players to vote Saladman27.

Outside of 367 you don’t even bother with acknowledging Drew. This seems scum allowing Drew to be lynched without being part of the lynch.

Vote: Luca Blight

[mavsfan41]

@UnaBombaH: I was drafting that, posted it, then was like oh shit! Una’s thinking the same thing. Then was like fuck! People are gonna think I just piggybacked off Una.....

I was looking at the vote count and running through ISOs of players with votes other than Drew. Drew was the inevitable lynch, so scum wouldn’t necessarily be on that wagon for him to be lynched. So I want to know where other players were voting and why and then saw his vote and was “let’s see why he voted Prana” and the reason was very disappointing.

[mavsfan41]

I meant “oh shit! Una’s thinking the same thing” as in Nice!

[mavsfan41]

Also, I note only one kill, so either we have a doc and they protected mavs, or we have no vig (or it's an even night only one, which if this game has two millers, is entirely possible).

There's a lot to do with mafia not killing wake, killing PRs is a higher priority for them. Yes wake can't be lynched and they'll have to kill him at some point but killing him night 1 would be pointless.

Plus, any doc role we may have would be on Wake, absolutely no point in risking shooting the only confirmed town role.

Is this weird? First he suggests the doc is on me (why? I have no idea. With Drew flipping miller, I wouldn’t protect the other claimed miller if I was a doc) then he absolutely believes the doc was protecting Wake88.

Is the first one here speculating who a vig would target (trying to put themselves in the vigs’s shoes) and the other reads like justification of why scum didn’t target Wake?

Why not mention Wake in the first post instead of me? Cause of the target who was killed in Farside. To believe a vig would target her is ridiculous and therefore killed by scum. So only one death with two killing roles would mean I was saved by the doc from the vig which is extremely unlikely as the doc would be protecting Wake88. The adding of me in the first post reads like Prana trying to speculate on a vig knowing they shot at Farside.

This is weird right? Am I making sense?

[mavsfan41]

@Wake88: I’ve never played with an IC before and looked up the role. The first paragraph does mention how a mod-confirmed IC from the start has fallen out of favor cause it can be boring for the player in this situation. That seems like case I take it?

[mavsfan41]

@Prana: I understand that. My issue more comes with you mentioning me being possibly saved by the doctor as that or no vig and then later with the doctor obviously being on Wake88. It just makes the first post look like a potential scum slip of you taking out Farside and later justifying why Wake88 wasn’t the target of the night kill.

[mavsfan41]

Why would the doc protect me? They would be protecting Wake88. I highly doubt a doctor would protect a claimed miller over an actual mod-confirmed townie. Protecting me, the doctor might be potentially protecting scum. Protecting Wake88, the doctor KNOWS they’re protecting town.

You even said the same about the doctor in 524. To think they’d consider targeting me is ridiculous. A doctor shouldn’t try to protect a claimed miller from a vig, they should be protecting a mod-confirmed townie from scum. I feel as though you know this. Suggesting I’m alive cause I was protected by the vig feels like a scum slip of knowing you targeted Farcry over Wake88

[mavsfan41]

Out of the WIFOM situations you’ve brought up, I find it much much easier to think scum would target Farside WIFOM’ing themselves out of a Wake88 kill and even hoping to target to a PR (or even not being interested in Wake88 at all) then I think a doctor would WIFOM out of a Wake88 target to protect anyone they have doubts about even being town especially a claimed miller.

Scum’s pool of targets last night were very large allowing them to WIFOM more easier out of a Wake88 or maybe even not being interested. The doctor’s pool of saves was essentially limited to player. WIFOM’ing out of a Wake88 save seems so unlikely.

Prana even stated he believes the doc’s hands were tied with saving Wake88 in 524.

[mavsfan41]

@mavs talk to me about your GB read please.

I will say that George Bailey accepted the possibility of two millers so much easier than anyone else that it felt off. Meaning if he was scum, he would know Drew is a miller as the only players who knew Drew was a miller is Drew and scum. But if he did know Drew was miller, with the amount he defended Drew, the tiny amount of town Cred scum!George would gain didn’t even make sense as a CC’ed miller almost certainly leads to a lynch and anyone on the wagon would therefore have plausible deniability. So town cred for not being on the Drew wagon specifically is a wash. Scum didn’t need to be on that wagon to push a lynch.

But.....352 and 433 are both weird implying George knew Drew would flip miller. This combined with the fact that George put Drew at L-1 after spending so much of the day supporting the theory of a 2 miller set up with the only real justification for flipping and voting Drew is an awkward post in 350. All the posts mentioned in this clumsy paragraph are clumsy themselves with “i guess, if I have to vote Drew I will, but I think he’s town.”

I’m kinda over my blood lust for George Bailey in pursuit of other targets. He is no longer at the top of my list but still leaning scum.

How do you feel about the Luca Blight wagon? Prana makes sense to myself but I’m having a real hard time explaining it. George would be 3rd I suppose on that list.

[mavsfan41]

Question to everyone... do we know if the scum have day talk?

I don’t know if I’m tunneling too much onto Prana Devil but this is awkward. There’s no really reason to bring this up with the context of what he’s said in the rest of the post other than to slip this in there to play innocent “if I ask about day talk, it suggests I’m not scum or I’d know the answer.”

I don’t want to let Luca Blight off that easily but I want to vote Prana Devil.

[mavsfan41]

@Prana: I figured out why I’m tunneling, it’s cause almost all of your posts have to do with discussing the game set up and responding to other players’ post without suspecting or voting anyone. The only players you’ve voted for outside of RVS was Perisivul and that happened twice. Other than that, you haven’t actually really pushed anyone or really suspected anyone. This seems like a very sneaky way to be a form of lurking with high volume of posts. It strikes me as scummy.

[mavsfan41]

@GB what are you trying to say by saying that I'm being opportunistic? You think I'm opportunistic scum? Then where's the vote?

I think your votes feel very opportunistic so far.

So far your two votes have been on me and Drew.

I think you’ve got the right idea about Knightmare voting opportunistically, but how do you feel about Panda? The textbook opportunistic vote would be me day 2 after Drew-Sta flipped miller.

So I have to ask the question. Do we think there are two millers
VOTE: mav

And when Percivul cleared me, he had to pick a new target....

I don't know maybe I'm going with my guy here. But I still feel this is scum
VOTE: UnabombaH

Something about them and their iso in day1 just didn't rub me the right way I can have more later.

Methinks their “gut” feeling was that UnaBombaH attracted attention with no real reason.

@UnaBombaH: if Luca/Panda are the scum team, thanks for being their idea of an easy mislynch!

I don’t disagree that Knightmare’s voting patterns are opportunistic, I just find Red Panda’s blatantly more opportunistic.

[mavsfan41]

EBWODP: when I say “with no real reason” in context to Panda’s vote of UnaBombaH, I mean Panda just threw it on. I didn’t mean that there was no real reason UnaBombaH drew attention.

[mavsfan41]

EBWOP: Mavs also brings out a good point about Prana. I'm reluctant to vote for anyone right now before I re-read the game, but FOS on Prana for sure.

Any thoughts on the Luca Blight wagon forming?

[mavsfan41]

@Red Panda: Prana Devil mentioned this too in 544, but I’m not entirely sure I would've been lynched today had Persivul not claimed role cop and confirmed my miller role. Entering the day, two people had voted and neither on me (Knightmare vote George and Tanner voted you). Drew flipping miller would actually give more credit to my miller CC. Why would scum!mavs CC an actual miller knowing he’ll flip miller? Voting me is the opportunistic vote sure, but idk if it’s the greatest vote. You can’t push for my lynch for the fact that Persivul cleared me. No one would vote with you regardless of how hard you tried. So you must find another mislynch target which brings me to:

So why did you vote UnaBombaH? The “gut feeling” might be you bread crumbing you’re a cop with a guilty on UnaBombaH but I know that’s NOT the case or you just would’ve got to him and not voted me first.

[mavsfan41]

Both on wagons gaining traction. It feels like you only want a safe place to park your vote. And both are very safe wagons.

VOTE: Knightmare491

Thank you for scum claiming with this OMGUS vote. I'm the only vote on you, how does that count as a "wagon gaining traction?"

I’m not quite sure I buy this. Although I haven’t voted George, I was pushing that wagon for awhile and he never really OMGUS’ed me. Not sure I believe the reasoning for his vote here is an OMGUS.

Join UnaBombaH and I and vote Luca.

[mavsfan41]

@Popopo: sweet avatar! Also, you talk about the votes on Drew-Sta as where to look for scum. I keep going back on how many I think are there. It’s an easy place to vote and scum didn’t need to be on that wagon for a lynch to go through.

Knightmare’s 630 is strange and reads like scum being forced to give opinions about their scum buddies and giving generic neutral reads vs appear to defend them. I would say both are unlikely to be scum mentioned. Knightmare’s vote on Riabi also makes me not think Riabi is scum. Riabi 577 & 578 made me suspicious of him for pushing Prana but ignoring Luca and Red Panda.

Vote: Knightmare491

[mavsfan41]

Knightmare’s 630 references two players, Luca and Panda. How the post was written in providing a neutral feeling on both does seem too much of a fence sitting read. That is because I could see one of them (more likely Panda) being their scum buddy and not wanting to add suspicion to Panda so the neutral read is how to play it. The other one (more likely Luca of the two) to be a more neutral take as they’re not scum hunting. And Luca’s lurkiness i feel is more likely to yield a neutral feel. So if Knightmare is scum, I think that 630 post features forced takes on one of their scummates they are unwilling to push and the other is a cop out cause they’re not actually scum hunting.

When I voted Luca, I thought scum team was Luca/Panda and one of Riabi/Prana but after Knightmare changed to Riabi, I think it’s now possibly Knightmare/Panda and someone else. Still maybe Luca but I doubt it or possibly Prana but Prana seems to be more independent of the two.
I will say that Popopo’s catch up I liked and can’t see them being partnered with Panda. Panda is perhaps my biggest scum read right now, but I want to look into this Knightmare thing more hence where my vote is.

[mavsfan41]

@Popopop: idk why I missed that in the reading of your post but I saw that wagon theory later, my bad

[mavsfan41]

@Prana: your 492 rejected the Persivul claim immediately. Then Tanner makes post 508 and then you agree about Persivul in your 524. Why change now? I think Perisvul (being role cop) does provide adequate reasoning for calling a quick day 1 end knowing he was planning all along to check me during the night.

If scum!Persivul was scum role cop, why would he 1) confirm me such as Tanner has mentioned 2) would use his ability to check a miller claim? He would most likely NOT investigate me if he’s scum role cop and opt to gain a better use of his night action. Now that could possibly lead to either us BOTH being scum (I know for a fact that is not the case) OR he was scum claiming I’m what I say to get town cred but again, I find it hard to believe this is the case. It does seem like a high risk gamble for a low risk reward vs just letting what happens happened.

[mavsfan41]

I'm getting caught up in theories here, sorry about that.

I still think the Luca-slot would be the most reasonable lynch unless they blow me away with their content today.
Panda and Tanner are next in line for me, but I'd rather want Panda today for being a silly goose.

Could you please explain your thoughts on Tanner? I know you voted him day 1 (with no real explanation).

Also, the amount of people saying that you’re scum I think is just too large a pool and that would suggest you’re acting alone (aka town). I think scum sees you as low hanging fruit and with the amount of speculation that you might be scum, scum can vote here or throw suspicion at your slot at no real risk I feel cause you’re a popular target for suspicion. Eventually I’ll go through the game and see who haven’t thrown suspicion on you and see if I think those players are sorta scummy and they’re your partners if you are scum, but right now I just can’t see you being scum with almost the entire player roster suspecting you.

[mavsfan41]

@Una: 225 is the closest you come saying why you suspect Tanner but that strikes me based more off comments Tanner made during RVS. Surely your read has developed more than that. The only other thing I could think of is an OMGUS after his 67 and follow up in 132 asking for an explanation about a joke RVS post.

[mavsfan41]

@Panda: they’re not quite the same. UnaBombaH is attracting almost everyone. (Again, I’ll try to come up with an all inclusive list of players who have suspected him via throwing him at the top of their scum list or voted him in a serious way when I have some time.) Luca was getting scum read cause of his fence sitting with UnaBombaH and pushing but not quite voting. You’re getting vibes cause of what I see as exclusively voting opportunistically. UnaBombaH has sorta stuck to the same several people. And you have actually voted UnaBombaH which does read more like you targeting low hanging fruit as scum which I think would be why you would target him.

You also severely mischaracterized Drew-Sta’s late day 1 posts in 370. This strikes me more of what scum would do trying to rush a lynch of Drew vs what Persivul did (which attracted scummy vibes as advocating for a quick lynch). Persivul, if he’s the role cop, would want the day to end quicker so that night he can target me and sort it out that way via having everyone discuss it when he was all but certain to have a resolution at night. That would make sense from his POV as the role cop. Mischaracterizing Drew’s posts the way you did strikes me as more malicious behavior for town.

[mavsfan41]

@Una: Panda’s list in 677 I think is in order of town to scum. Tanner is below you on that list. And the bottom I’m guessing are the people she’s suspecting the most hence you and Tanner both at the bottom. Or at least that’s how I read it. Panda: feel free to correct me on that.

[mavsfan41]

Vote: Red Panda

[mavsfan41]

I’m a little confused about Panda’s flip. Their flip suggests Panda was in a day talk with others yes? And if that’s the case, do the people in that day talk thread know each other and are they confirmed town to each other? If that’s the case, where were they yesterday when Panda was racking up the votes and going to be lynched?!?!? Wtf?

Also, looking through the game during the night phase and re-evaluating the situation after the Panda flip, I found a weird post from both George Bailey and Riabi.

George’s is 505. Here he suggested this theory of double miller. He immediately accepted this but in 505 comes out and says he was ready to insta-vote me which is wild. He suggested double miller and when Drew flips, now he immediately reconsiders the theory he was pushing and claims he would’ve voted me had Persivul not come out and cleared me. He then walks this back immediately and votes Riabi for not accepting a double miller theory. I don’t know if I’ve mentions this or pointed this out previously but this one has a hypocrisy paragraphs apart.

I forgot what Riabi post I wanted to point out, but his ISO is strange. He pushes a lynch of Drew harder than Persivul and Drew is his only vote other than a RVS. He seems to fence sit too much for my liking. None of his posts seem original in terms of slinging suspicion and all sorta wagon on someone else. His ISO is worth another look.

My only issue here is that Riabi and George do go at it a little bit and this doesn’t strike me as SvS. I think scum is here but not sure which one. Maybe Riabi for his immense fence sitting. Thoughts?

Vote: Riabi

Post Riabi!

[mavsfan41]

@Persivul: who did you target last night and what did you find out?

@Prana: your theory of Persivul makes sense. The only thing I wonder is why would Persivul claim he’s 1x unprovoked? Seems like something that would IMMEDIATELY have people (like you yelling “bs!” and rightfully so). The only thing I could possibly see Perisvul claiming outright he’s a 1x now with a doctor presumably on him is that he wants the doctor targeting someone else trying to tell scum to target elsewhere cause they can’t kill him. With the IC’s death, I figure if there was a doctor, that Persivul was targeted by the doctor as that’s ONLY place a doctor would go other than Eve. That claim of a 1x from Persivul seems strange for him to outright claim with no pressure which in turn would open him up to people being suspicious of him with no real reward for scum!Persivul. It is also getting convenient for Perisvul.

[mavsfan41]

Oh, he 1x I thought meant he was claiming bulletproof. My bad.....

[mavsfan41]

Yea, idk. Me thinking either town!Persivul being NK’ed or no one being NK’ed. But the IC makes sense now with a player roster of 9 and an IC limiting the pool (also with not Wake in the game). However, scum!Persivul is not necessarily cleared with my flip but my flip of miller would give him some cred (if he was fake-claiming). So why not me? Seems like more gain for scum!Persivul than the IC. No one is trying to lynch me so people do believe (at this point at least) that I’m a miller. So idk what my lynch-ability rating is, but with it being low, scum!Persivul has more to gain from my death and NK’ing me is the way it would be. I still think scum!Persivul would know I’m not aligned with him and therefore have no reason to doubt my miller claim.

@Prana: with him being 1x role cop, yea, it absolutely makes sense for him to claim yesterday if he were town. Also I get the suspicion surrounding an easy claim but why not claim he “targeted” one of his scum buddies and say they’re VT? A little less suspicious than straight up claiming 1x role cop. I get that his lynch or his scum buddy’s lynch would out both, but that seems like a better move to make. And with two mislynches, scum really only has to survive one more and then lylo. Claiming 1x role cop does seem scummy but I think scum!Persivul would perhaps play the situation a little differently. If he did “target” his scum buddy, presumably he picked the one gaining the most suspicion and has an easy justification for why he chose his target. I think that would be a better gambit than saying 1x role cop.

[mavsfan41]

@Tanner: you vote popopo in 782. Have your thoughts on Knightmare shifted?

[mavsfan41]

Prana Devil: Mavs, you're not being lynched ONLY because Persivul cleared you!

There was zero chance Drew was surviving day 1 after you CC'd him.

The only reason you aren't being lynched right now is because Persivul Rolecopped you

, meaning either you are both town, or you played a blinder of a shot, and it's worked... of course, it needs to continue working for that to pay off in that case. So the above, is understandable, because even if someone believes there's a chance of double miller, keeping them both alive day 1 is also completely stupid.

Also Prana Devil: Mavs was NEVER gonna be lynched!

mavs was NOT going to be lynched day 2, everyone else was looking a mavs for day 2 (and yes, he's still not cleared, but then... nobody is at this stage). You came in and went "mavs is a miller, I say he is, oh look I'm very town by this, oh look at me", when a town way to play there is to stay quiet unless you are one shot... but then you would want to draw the fire from scum, so you would be deep into scum hunting... in fact... your rolecop claim and your actions DO NOT line up.

I call BS on this!

The only thing I will say about the Tanner scum case is that he his jump to the Red Panda wagon was wild and out of the blue in terms of how quickly he went from voting someone else to his Panda vote. Notes on Tanner though, he's been extremely consistent with his Knightmare read and has voted Luca/popo slot as his only two voting frequencies. But that Panda one struck me as odd. He also did vote Panda before it would be considered a wagon so not necessarily jumping on the wagon. I thought the Red Panda vote from him was weird looking through his ISO but other than that, nothing struck me as strange.

Unvote

[mavsfan41]

@Persivul: there were certain players (including BUT NOT limited to just off the top of my head but there might be more: George Bailey & UnaBombaH) that seemed to believe a double miller set up. You have now pointed out that they expressed interest in my lynching after Drew flipped green. That would mean that they believed a double miller set up and resisted a Drew lynch but have wanted me lynched implying I fake CC’ed him vs sticking to the two miller setup. Any thoughts on this? I do realize that would mean both Una and George would be scum together or this theory would be NAI. Hell, Panda voted me immediately and we saw how that turned out.

Of all the players you’ve pointed out, I think Riabi’s looks the worse. He was gung-ho for a Drew lynch and had posted about absolutely rejecting whatever Drew was saying and then expressed interest in a lynch of me after the Drew flip. Idk how scum would handle this situation if they doubled down on the back to back double miller mislynched but this is what I’d picture. 578 does strike me as weird as he pushes a pursuit of Prana vs Luca who was also being suspected. The fact he ignored the Luca push and instead picked the Prana push seems possible Luca(now popo)/Riabi scum team as he was trying to deflect suspicion away from popopo.

Personally I’m okay with a Prana lynch, but I do also think popopo/Riabi might be a thing. Voting Riabi while he was just being replaced seems in poor faith, so I’ll join Tanner in the push of popopopo.

Vote: popopopopopopo

[mavsfan41]

Between 520-525 a Luca wagon (now popo) formed. It was myself, Una, and then Tanner. There wasn’t much after that and it quickly disbanded with Tanner first going to Knightmare. Persivul first voted Red Panda followed by Tanner very shortly afterwards. Then the Red Panda wagon gained momentum leading to her lynch. Looking through these posts, I see Popopo’s join as Luca’s replacement. Popopo immediately announces a scumread of Knightmare. The one thing that does strike me as weird is the timeline for Popopopo’s Red Panda vote. (This is post 626.) Knightmare is suspected but Popopo switches to Red Panda (that read progression is fine and nothing super weird there) but I feel as though town!Popopo would have gone to Knightmare instead. Voting Red Panda at that point was jumping on the wagon. I feel as though had Tanner not moved from Knightmare to Red Panda, perhaps Popopo doesn’t vote Red Panda.

Also, if Popopo flips scum, I think that would all but clear Knightmare. Has Prana provided a read of Popopopo? I see in 524 they did express interest in the Luca wagon but didn’t vote and wanted to hear Luca’s response. This feels like punting on suspecting/voting a scum buddy. 849 Prana says 100% scum is either Tanner/Popo but hasn’t really voted. This is more fence sitting where Prana possibly doesn’t want to bus Popopo but faced with the alternative of voting Tanner doesn’t seem appealing. Prana has actually been super wishy-washy with Popopo. Prana mentions scum Popopo in a group but whenever he directly mentions Popopo the posts feel like walking on eggshells.

Can someone else check the interaction between Prana and Popopo and see if they’re reading it the same? I think a Popopo scum flip would not be great for Prana. There’s less between Popopo mentioning Prana, in fact he ignores him for the most part trying to push the Persivul scum theory more. Popopo does mention Prana but in a weird 854 post which reads to me like casually name dropping but trying too hard to not interact. Thoughts?

[mavsfan41]

Persi, how accurate is 644 right now?

Here's where I am:

Town - mavs, tanner
Lean Town - Knightmare
Scummy side of null - Unabomber, Riabi
Scum - George, popo, prana

I was more confident in that scum team a couple days ago, but Una and Riabi going quiet has me concerned.

You?

George in 857 jumped on the popopopo wagon at scum-speed rate for a mislynch. I cannot see a world where they’re scum buddies together. That was not a bus’ing scenario. If Popopopopo flips scum, I’m looking at Prana. If Popopopo flips town, George is where I’m going.

[mavsfan41]

My post was more about how you were super resistant to give any real read of Popopopo even though you’ve pointed out how you believe Popopopopo to be one of your scum suspects. And therefore I think if Popopopo is scum, you could very well be their scum partner. The lack of vote for the Tanner/Popopopo thing was to highlight how resistant you’ve been of a Popopo read. This I later emphasized with response to Persivul’s post about how I believe Popopopo and George can not possibly be scum together (honestly, Persivul’s post of linking them together is weird af imo and seems like a fabricated scum read of one of them). Just take a look at 857 from George. If they’re both scum, George is bus’ing his partner and there’s no reason for him to do that there.

[mavsfan41]

@Persivul: I actually meant to add an addendum to that and how your reads and your presumed parings are two very different things which I didn’t acknowledge. Cause I still have a scum read on George but am voting Popopopo. My George read is very dependent on Popo’s flip. He either shoots to the top of my scum list or town-binned quicker than him jumping onto the Popopo wagon. So yea, if you have a George/Popopo pairing, that’s ridiculous. But if you have a scum read of both, that’s fair (which seems to be what your list is).

As for UnaBombaH, I honestly have no idea. Everyone was jumping on him he seemed like an easy lynch that I can’t see him being anything other than town. But his silence is quite alarming. But I don’t know where he’d rank in my list. Someone above the Riabi slot. He seems like a slightly more town version of what Riabi was.

[mavsfan41]

Unvote: Popopopopopo

Why the fuck would a claimed role cop make the night kill? Seems like obvious tracker bait. If Perisvul is scum, weird decision.

Intent to vote Persivul but don’t want a self-hammer in this situation.

Prana would be cleared (my bad Prana...).

[mavsfan41]

Prana was on Percivul day 1. And day 2. In fact, the day 1 push I find hard to believe would be SvS in that situation.

You make a GREAT point about why a townie role would be targeting the IC. The only thing I could possibly imagine is a watcher/voyeur (the one where you see who visited that person during the night) on Eve. And that would make sense as Eve was the most likely to be targeted.

Even with this being the case and Eve being dead, if Popopopo is the tracker and targeted Percivul, Percivul would’ve seen who targeted Eve and therefore should be pushing that person as scum and would’ve likely claimed in that scenario.

No way town!Percivul targeted Eve last night and is now pushing Popopopo if Popopo’s telling the truth about being the tracker.

[mavsfan41]

We’re talking about Percivul right?

Okay, can we lynch popo now?

Prana and popo are both in my scum pool. Those are the leading wagons and the game has stalled, so good chance they're both scum.

VOTE: popopopopo

L-1

[mavsfan41]

Also, the fact he claimed role cop and confirmed me but wouldn’t claim that is beyond absurd.

[mavsfan41]

Food for thought: assume popopopo is scum fakeclaiming - how did they know georgebailey didn't go anywhere N1?

Popopop said Luca tracked George N1. Popopopo replaced that slot so one would assume they would be privileged to know the results of Luca’s N1 actions.

[mavsfan41]

Food for thought: assume popopopo is scum fakeclaiming - how did they know georgebailey didn't go anywhere N1?

Hold it - scum tracker is a thing too, so no, the George association isn't a hard scum point. But George is scum nonetheless.

I don’t understand this. Popopopo wouldn’t be a scum tracker.

i tracked persivul last night, he visited eve

Scum claim. I went nowhere last night. I can't.

Persivul is claiming he went nowhere. That would mean scum!Popopopo is lying about even being a tracker and trying to frame Persivul with a fake claim/fake results. If Persivul is town and is telling the truth about going nowhere, that would mean Popopo isn’t even a tracker let alone a scum tracker. Sure, sure, they could be a scum tracker who did track George N1 and tracked someone else N2 OTHER than Persivul and is trying to frame Persivul but I just don’t see it.

I think the acknowledgment of Popopopo being a scum tracker at the same time of Perisvul saying he didn’t go anywhere last night is awkward af rather than just straight up calling Popopopo a liar.

Also, I agree that George not going anywhere doesn’t necessarily clear him, but scum!Persivul pushing George in this scenario I think would clear George if Persivul flips scum.

[mavsfan41]

I think? we lynch popo today? Even if popo is Town, we wouldn't be able to get any more results from him since he'd get shot anyway. So either he flips scum, which is great, or we lynch Persi>mavs (because I still believe they have to be the same alignment).

pedit: I don't think that's such an elaborate thought, though... what do you mean by saving the situation?

Not a chance. If I were doctor I’d 100% protect Popopopo here (if Persivul flips scum). Persivul’s not a power role anymore. Picking a lynch between the two, town has more to lose by lynching a tracker than lynching a 1x Rolecop who already used their ability.

[mavsfan41]

The IC died presumably because they targeted Persivul after Persivul claimed role cop (but before claiming 1x role cop).

[mavsfan41]

I honestly have NO IDEA about George atm. I think he makes more sense as scum if you flip scum adhering to the Turbobus. You pushing him now I think would clear him if you flip scum though, I’m not sure, but wandering townie. Hell, I’ve been on BOTH wagons that mislynched townies. So him voting Popopopo then voting you is sorta what I’m doing.

Popopo did vote you earlier in their first post today which would suggest they had a guilty on you. But to acknowledge UnaBombaH’s 969, was a weak push with a hard guilty on someone.

I’m telling you, I think your post about the potential of Popopop being a scum tracker is absolutely insane. For you to believe that, you’d be saying that Popopopo (as scum tracker) tracked George N1 and you believe that but then to go and claim you didn’t go anywhere and therefore Popopopo is lying about tracking you N2 in an effort to frame you is just.... weird. What I’d picture you’d be saying is that Popopopopo is a liar who isn’t a tracker of any kind cause if they were and tracked me, they would see I didn’t go anywhere. But to say they’re scum tracker is saying they did indeed track George BUT ALSO that they tracked someone who isn’t you N2. I think either Popopopopo is town who tracked you OR is scum lying about being a tracker to frame you. There is no possibility of scum tracker telling the truth about N1 but lying about N2.

[mavsfan41]

Also, in that scum tracker scenario with the whole telling the truth about George but lying about you would clear George as there’s no reason scum tracker would actually track their scum buddy George.

[mavsfan41]

I think what George is saying is that for Popopopo to fake claim tracker and fabricating Night results but being 100% sure George wouldn’t call BS is to make sure George didn’t visit anyone via jailing him.

[mavsfan41]

Or, George has no night ability and didn’t go anywhere or didn’t chose to go anywhere. So George knows he didn’t go anywhere but scum claiming tracker wouldn’t know that. So in order be guessing on George’s night action of not going anywhere AND being right about them, they’d hafta jail George.

Even if George didn’t know he was jailed, what his post is saying is that Popopo is correct and that George didn’t go anywhere N1. For scum to KNOW he didn’t go anywhere, they’d have to jail him or George would be calling BS on Popopopo which he is not.

[mavsfan41]

I don’t think there is a jailer either. What George is saying is that he didn’t go anywhere N1 corroborating Popopo’s claim about him. For scum!Popopopo to be fake claiming tracker with a N1 result that is accurate and not going to be called out is if they used a scum PR to prevent him from visiting anyone. Then Popopopo could lie about being tracked with an accurate result on George. That probably didn’t happen. What happened is George didn’t go anywhere N1 and Popopopo is tracker telling the truth aka Persivul is scum OR George is lying and him and Popopopopo are scum together corroborating each other’s claims.

I still don’t think George and Popopopo are scum together. I can’t see scum!George posting 857 about scum!Popopopo unless it’s one helluva smoke screen.

I think scum!George works only with scum!Persivul as trying to turbobus Persivul after Popopopo’s claim. But this still doesn’t work cause of how hard Persivul is pushing George. Scum!Persivul would clear Popopopopo, George, and Prana imo.

Town Persivul would mean scum!Popopopo and likely scum Prana. George’s push and voting of BOTH seems like townie pushing whatever conviction they currently have (or he’s playing scum like I play town....)

Vote: Persivul

[mavsfan41]

Also, in that scum tracker scenario with the whole telling the truth about George but lying about you would clear George as there’s no reason scum tracker would actually track their scum buddy George.

I do not understand how you can be saying this.
If popooopo is scum, they either tracked

TOWN!george

to know they didn't do anything N1, or they tracked anywhere else, and they KNOW their

scumbuddy!george

didn't move.

Scum Tracker Popopo is NOT a thing. They’re either lying about the results (George would be scum in this scenario but I don’t think Popopopo/George scum team) OR Popopopo is a tracker who is telling the truth which means scum!Persivul.

Scum tracker Popopo would be tracking George and telling the truth in this scenario BUT lying about Percivul in an attempt to frame him. This was more of a “here’s why this post below is not a thing that’s going on”

Food for thought: assume popopopo is scum fakeclaiming - how did they know georgebailey didn't go anywhere N1?

This premise is based off George’s 857 post NOT being a Popopo/George scum pairing.

[mavsfan41]

Knightmare dived on that bus so fast that he must have thought it was the last one out of the station.

Idk. On a scale of 1- the speed at which Knightmare jumped on Drew after my CC, I’d say this is about a 6.

As for the Tanner case if Persivul flips scum, 976 is quintessential scum buddy bargaining an alternative lynch to protect his buddy. As I’ve explained, this makes no sense coming from neutral town to lynch a potential tracker vs a 1x PR. And since Tanner has been pushing a Knightmare lynch all game, I would easily vote Tanner over Knightmare on a Persivul scum flip.

[mavsfan41]

@Tanner: If Persivul is scum, he knows I’m town and therefore I’m not fake claiming miller. So I could see why he would confirm miller without actually role copping me.

This being said, I will point out there are indeed three things that don’t fit a scum!Persivul narrative:
1) why he would come out of the blue and confirm I’m miller rather than letting me be potentially mislynched day 2
2) Persivul fake claiming Role Cop means that there is two millers with no way of confirming either
3) why would Persivul make the Eve kill being a claimed role cop attracting suspicion. That’s tracker bait at its finest.

I do think a Persivul flip will benefit town more than a Popopopo flip. The progression of reads on Popopo as point out by Knightmare is very interesting along with Popopopo’s 896. I don’t see scum!Popopopopo coming up with that to frame Persivul. That’s a townie post with townie motivation.

[mavsfan41]

I get your point. Let's mass claim tho

Miller

[mavsfan41]

Wtf?!? Popopo cannot be a scum tracker!!!
Popopo to be a scum tracker is to accept they tracked George but also accepting they targeted NOT Persivul N2 if Persivul is going to claim he didn’t go anywhere and is lying about tracking Perisuvl and his destination to frame him!!!

Popopo is either:
1) tracker who is telling the truth - aka Persivul visited Eve last night
2) scum claiming tracker - aka lying about Persivul and who cares about George at this point.

@Persivul: again, to even entertain this idea of scum tracker Popopopo is to acknowledge they are telling the truth about George during N1 BUT LYING about you N2. Popopo has alleged you visited Eve. You claim you didn’t do anything. I don’t even know how you could believe half a tracker story but not the other. If you’re saying Popopopo is lying about your night action’s last night, you should reject the tracker theory in full as a ploy to save themselves at the 11th hour. You’re in on both which makes literally no sense

[mavsfan41]

If Popopopo was a scum tracker, do you believe they tracked George?

Yes - then you believe that they’re telling the truth about N1. But you also are saying they lied about N2 claiming Perisvul visited Eve when Persivul has gone on record saying that did NOT happen

No - they’re not a tracker and lied about George and Persivul.

Scum!Popopopopo is lying about Persivul regardless of their role. The only possible scenario I see is that scum tracker Popopopo (at that point Luca) tracked George but tracked someone NOT persivul N2 but is lying about their real target and instead claiming they targeted Persivul. That’s a less likely scenario than scum!Popopopo just lying about tracker altogether

[mavsfan41]

@Persivul: nfw scum!George votes scum!Popopopo in 857 and furthermore absolutely no chance scum!George votes scum!popopopo in 1058 and vote his scum buddy rather than just leaving it on you for the easy mislynch.

[mavsfan41]

935 & 1016 I could see as Tanner laying the groundwork for a mavs lynched upon a scum!Persivul flip. Tanner, the way you’re entertaining wild scenarios, such as Popopop guessing right about George’s N1 action, but rejecting the possibility that I’m town and Persivul’s scum is off. I could absolutely see a Persivul/Tanner scum pairing.

As for the mass claim idea. NO! Don’t do it!
My 1055 was supposed to be a joke and not advocating for a mass claim. Also, throwing yourself last in the order of a mass claim in 1063 is super convenient for you knowing which roles will be claimed in order for you to come up with a fake claim.

I honestly think 976 is enough of a reason to suggest a Persivul/Tanner scum pairing. Look at that sheep of 611 & 613 onto Red Panda. Your read progression to Red Panda is weird as you had voted Knightmare and then switched to Red Panda on basically the subsequent post.

[mavsfan41]

@Perisvul: You keep pushing George today. I really don’t see how George is scum unless BOTH you AND Popopopo are town. Popopopo bread crumbing a tracker result on you is undeniable. To suggest they had that fake claim ready for as a last resort is super unlikely. If you scum, I believe that would clear Prana and Popopopopo. George I believe is town too with a scum flip of either you or Popopo. That would leave UnaBombaH, Ruby Red, Knightmare and Tanner as potential scum. Knightmare/Tanner cannot be scum together. That’s where I’m at.

@Tanner: I still don’t have a great answer for you on that. My best guess is he would try to get me to lylo hoping I’d vote his way? But that’s flimsy cause allowing me to be lynched would definitely be easier than try to gain my favor. Idk what to tell you. My best guess is that him protecting me was hoping to gain my trust and be loyal to him throughout the game. All I can really say is that I believe Popopopo over Persivul. I’m actually really looking forward to reading the private scum thread once this game is over to see what transpired and what the plan was regardless if Perisvul is fake claiming cop or Popopopo is fake claiming tracker. Also, I really don’t understand how you’re straight up rejecting a scenario where a doctor would protect a power role over an IC. With how much you’re buying Persivul’s role cop claim, you believe him to be town AND having a power role (as this was before Persivul claimed 1x role cop). To tell me you wouldn’t have protected Persivul last night is absurd and instead would’ve protected the IC? I don’t believe that for a second.

[mavsfan41]

Popopo’s bread crumbing is pretty obvious with the tracker claim. As Prana has claimed, this isn’t an 11th hour Hail Mary claim. Also, Persivul’s push on George seems extremely disingenuous to me. Yes, there are pieces that don’t quite fit, I admit that. But Popopopo’s claim is more factually evident with the bread crumbing where the Persivul role cop isn’t as concrete and works less from a factual standpoint and more from a game theory aspect. And it’s easier to fake game theory than day long bread crumbing.

[mavsfan41]

Fine: would you be okay with me not voting you but also not voting Popopopo and just letting you get lynched?

[mavsfan41]

@popo: well done BTW. I mean, it shouldn't have worked, and depended on town having some VIs, but as luck would have it, we do. It certainly made the day more interesting though.

If you flip town, I’m guessing you’re taking about me (among others)?

[mavsfan41]

@Persivul: answered that in 896 which is a townie post with townie intentions. Also, again, you claim you didn’t go anywhere so Popopopo having a result means he’s lying if you’re town. Are you acknowledging he tracked you? That would also be acknowledging you visited Eve which you have previously stated didn’t happen.

[mavsfan41]

Just posting here to avoid a prod. I’ve got really nothing to add.

I will say however, Persivul pushing George/Popopopo team feels extremely forced. I don’t see how scum!George busses his partner in 857 AND ALSO votes Popopo in 1058. There’s reason enough for him to NOT vote Popopo and keep his vote on Persivul from 901. I just don’t see a scenario where George is scum. The only thing I could possibly maybe see a scum!George scenario is that if Persivul is scum, trying to distance himself as much as possible from George by pushing for a George scum team.

With that said: George straight up role-fishing when the outcome of Day 3 is all but decided between Popopopo/Persivul lynch is wild.

[mavsfan41]

@Persivul: if you flip town, I vote Popopopo IMMEDIATELY tomorrow and don’t move off that. I also reevaluate all my reads. Prana would be public enemy number 1 after Popopo’s lynch. As for the 3rd, I really don’t see George being linked to that group. He just voted Popopopo. He could easily leave his vote on you and not taken it off or even really had to bus Popopopopo in this scenario. I just don’t see a Popopop/George team.

[mavsfan41]

No wait, this isn't straightforward either.
Persivul / mavs / George is yet another variation.

So I’ve been trying to bus George since day 1? Oh, okay. Cool

[mavsfan41]

It’s a little after 8am where I am. If no one has hammered, I’ll hammer Popopopo at 11am my local time. (Assuming George leaves his fucking vote on and doesn’t switch it).

If Popopo flips town tracker, can we please lynch Persivul tomorrow?!?!?

If Popopopo flips scum, can we please lynch Prana Devil tomorrow? (I’m open to other options in this scenario, but Prana is linked to Popopo the same way I think Tanner is linked to Persivul).