Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[Knightmare491]

VOTE: Persivul

@wake did you get a choice in when you were to be announced as the IC or was it out of your control?

[Knightmare491]

You mind explaining how that could be helpful? ^
I have a vague idea but want to hear what made you propose that.

pedit-got the answer

[Knightmare491]

But how does it work if we mislynch today, is it then actually worse?

I think it's helpful in that scenario too because scum would have to sell that wagon more to get more votes if they're already on it or they themselves would have to vote that player.

[Knightmare491]

This ^

VOTE: george

Why switch from Persivul?

Do you like his reaction to the wagon?

Any reason why you chose to question farside and not PD? He unvoted first.

[Knightmare491]

Sorry, dead by day two. I'm the obvious mafia kill, and I honestly don't think it's wise for me to try and 'fake it' to simply be a hero. Better to do my duty and help town.

And yes, I am.

These setups have 4-5 town PRs from what I've read, IC is one, miller is negative utility so I'm not sure if that counts. Do you really think you're going to die soon? I highly doubt it.

[Knightmare491]

lol brilliant, I don't think any setup review mod would have the balls to approve a Normal with 2 millers.

[Knightmare491]

VOTE: Drew

I mean it would have probably been better if had let him interact with more people and claim later in the day so that we can catch the other scums as well. But oh well

[Knightmare491]

corrected

VOTE: Drew

I mean it would have probably been better if you had let him interact with more people and claimed later in the day so that we can catch the other scums as well. But oh well

[Knightmare491]

Is there any fast way to check the past games on this queue if they have had more than 1 miller?

[Knightmare491]

Yes ofc there's no need to QL him. How many votes is he on? No need to put him on l-1 either he could self hammer to end the day faster.

[Knightmare491]

I mean just the fact that 2 town millers in a game can lead to 2 back to back town mislynches. That's just way too powerful for scum.

[Knightmare491]

I think at the moment I mostly agree with your list. Other than what I've already said about Knightmare (wasn't pushing Drew until the cc), I'm suspocious of him for somewhat unrelated reasons.

Now I'm curious, please tell the class.

[Knightmare491]

Because PD gave a brief reason for doing so, as Farside's was a naked vote.

UNVOTE:

Let's not make it L-2

VOTE: Tanner

You saw this as a reason? It's more of a declaration.

[Knightmare491]

Honestly I almost think George is Town for his spectacularly shitty defense of Drew if Drew ends up flipping red. Bussing as fast as possible is more in line of what I'd expect of his partners.

It's a fair assessment. I don't know what sort of exp GB has in the game of mafia, but I have enough to know that 2 millers is close to impossible in a "normal" game and I do not believe Mavs is that bad of a mafia player that he randomly decides to CC town which is why I was quick to vote.

[Knightmare491]

OK, so what are all the claimed roles so far please?

Drew-sta claimed Miller when he was under some pressure.
Mavs later CCed him.

[Knightmare491]

That being said... and this may be a ludicrous idea, but it's in my head and I'd rather post it for others to chime in on. What if we don't have ANY millers? What if it's a double bluff from scum? We lynch one of them, the other coasts to victory under a "confirmed town" heading.

Seriously? Don't you think we'd realise this if Mavs magically stays alive till day 4 or somehing.

[Knightmare491]

OK, so what are all the claimed roles so far please?

Drew-sta claimed Miller when he was under

some

pressure.
Mavs later CCed him.

Oh please, that was not pressure at all. I was what, 3, maybe four votes in? Not unusual at all. If I was in the verge of being lynched and claimed that then you’d have a point maybe.

I also have a provocative style of posting. It attracts attention. So I’m used to having heat on me.

Your interpretation is different than mine. It's okay

[Knightmare491]

The best move for town is to lynch/vig/otherwise kill BOTH of them. Any town that would let a claimed miller get through to the end of the game like that deserves to lose, in my mind.

I like how you say x is worst and then go on to say something even worse. Yes in regular circumstances keeping a miller alive might be bad, but a miller who CCed a fake claim should be killed too? You okay there?

[Knightmare491]

Knightmare, Una, Salad, Luca. They’re my scum picks.

Lynch me now.

Then look at them.

Sure a person who's on v/la is your scum read lmao.

[Knightmare491]

You can probably say that about 4 other people in this game. My timezone is GMT +5.30 so I wasn't there for most of the RVS. Drew's claim was the first real point of interest in the game, it had already been explored and he was questioned by other so there was no point beating a dead horse.

[Knightmare491]

others*

[Knightmare491]

A person who is avoiding this issue. Yes.

You're assuming he's read the thread. Seeing that even the IC isn't reading the thread....................

[Knightmare491]

pedit: Knightmare, I'm not talking about your inactivity as a whole (you'll notice I haven't pushed Luca or Riabi who have been the most inactive so far - Riabi up to recently at least.) It's the fact your posts are empty air when you *do* post them.

Yeah like I said, there hasn't been something which nobody has picked on or much happening in general to post about. I can't produce content from thin air.

[Knightmare491]

He could have stayed quiet after the CC or he could have OMGUS voted manvs as scum.
Scum is going to know they are up shit creek with a CC and get defensive. Instead he is still scum hunting. questing people and know he will be lynched.
if he flips scum I would give him a high five for the deceiving so well.

He had to make a choice, either he argues that mavs is scum and this is a ridiculous ballsy play or he argues that there are 2 millers in the game.
If it was me, I'd choose the latter too because it's slightly easier to scare town into believing it cuz they'll lose 2 days if it's true etc etc. He's not scum hunting, he's just questioning people who are voting him and defending himself. Plus he's posting walls whenever he can to make the thread annoying to read.

[Knightmare491]

The only people who know, factually, whether Drew is scum or not are, in fact, the scum. This line feels very much like Persivul knows Drew is town.

No......?
I think he said, "are you sure that whoever we lynch apart from you, will flip town?"

[Knightmare491]

Who are you currently scum reading?

Honestly after the CC I haven't really paid attention, was planning to re read the thread at night. I'll go through it again and post my thoughts.

[Knightmare491]

@Drew if you are actually town, you should realise the situation we are in. Put yourself in our shoes, if one person claimed miller and another person CCed them. How likely is it that you won't lynch the first person who claimed to be miller?

[Knightmare491]

PD's iso before this (143) point is okayish but then he's throwing shade on two players, pushing one of them who I'd say are pretty towny(assumption here is that Drew is scum). Basically is setting a reason to lynch them later on.....

1. Mavs, this is just pure unadulterated shade tbh

Spoiler:

That being said... and this may be a ludicrous idea, but it's in my head and I'd rather post it for others to chime in on. What if we don't have ANY millers? What if it's a double bluff from scum? We lynch one of them, the other coasts to victory under a "confirmed town" heading.

2. Persivul, how he sees this as a scum slip feck knows

Spoiler:

In post 235, Persivul wrote:
In post 153, Drew-Sta wrote:
You can lynch me today if you need. I’m happy to be a martyr if you can’t settle on another townie.

So you're that sure we couldn't lynch scum?

^
Scumslip.

The only people who know, factually, whether Drew is scum or not are, in fact, the scum. This line feels very much like Persivul knows Drew is town.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Persivul

Another interesting thing to note,

I think the following is good enough for a vote on Drew by PD

Spoiler:

I think my issue is, Prana, that you threw down two votes, then criticised someone else for doing something not dissimilar to you.

I threw down two RVS votes, then criticised Tanner for putting them at L-2.

And you subsequently have agreed that putting someone at L-2 is something scum would do rather than hammer... so you agree with me, while telling me I was wrong to criticise Tanner for it...

Between the above post and below post, PD could have easily voted Drew but he decides to stay away from his wagon, Drew has accumulated 3 votes between those 2 posts.

Spoiler:

I think regardless of if Wake is on the wagon or not, as confirmed town, he's definitely who should be pushing everyone as hard as possible. At the very least because we want to make certain we get the most use from that slot if he is killed tonight.

[Knightmare491]

Another one I don't like is GB, refer 102 and 189, he hasn't responded to the latter.

[Knightmare491]

Is that an Elmo alt?

[Knightmare491]

I TL/TR these slots due to various reasons like tone/dependent on drew flip/townie intentions etc

Tanner/Persivul/Farside/Mavs/Una

These slots need sorting/null reads

Luca/salad/riabi

SLs

PD/GB

[Knightmare491]

@Knightmare

I've said elsewhere that I'm not voting Drew right now, but am happy to be the hammer. I do not wish to rush a lynch when there's information to gather. If you were doing a true ISO of me you would have seen that. So why did you deliberately omit it to try and make out I refuse to vote Drew?

That's not what I said.................................................................

In my post I'm talking about the time there were three votes on Drew and he hadn't claimed yet, I felt like you had enough reason to vote there but didn't. This is another misrepresentation/shade throw attempt from you.

[Knightmare491]

2 scum reads? The PD scum read is a bit of a stretch.
Hi Red Panda. I swear I thought I recognized your name but I saw your join date. Are you an alt of someone? I don't care who, just curious.

Seeing as reasons such as "lurking" are being thrown around to SR people and it being day 1, I think mine are decent observations.

[Knightmare491]

Why would you assume Millers would know of each other?

Maybe I'm just a bit crazy I'm used to games where Masons are aware of each other but then again this is a normal as well. Then again I could be completely off base in thinking they would know each other in the interest of fairness.

BRUH

[Knightmare491]

I'm sorry I just can't

miller=mason

Funny moment of the year?

[Knightmare491]

Said it before and I'll say it again...

What will you do when I flip town?

is a scum claim. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book. I used it in my very first scum game here. It didn't work then, and it's still scummy af now. Tomorrow is when we deal with what we'll do tomorrow. Like the vig discussion, it's just a distraction from what's going on now.

+1

[Knightmare491]

I’m suggesting I die. It’s the only way to clear this situation. If I manage to survive D1, which I won’t (and shouldn’t) I’ll probably get NK’d as it puts pressure on you. WIFOM I know but a clear and sensible move by mafia.

lol post makes no sense, you think mafia will kill you if we don't lynch you so that we lynch Mavs?
If you're actually town then it's in mafia's best interest to keep this thing going for as long as possible.

[Knightmare491]

He's prob trolling.

[Knightmare491]

If this game actually has two millers then we all can complain about the setup and not include this game in our history.

Ez

[Knightmare491]

Yeah yer a fungi

[Knightmare491]

Or they prob thought she's a PR

[Knightmare491]

Don't mind that kill tho, I went into night thinking there's a chance she is mafia due to her reaction to miller CC

[Knightmare491]

VOTE: GB

[Knightmare491]

Town better be fucking stacked in this game if there are 2 millers

We have to decide what's more likely, mavs CCing as mafia or 2 millers.

The reaction to the CC is the biggest point of interest, as town it's impossible that the first thing you consider is that there is chance that 2 millers exist = 0 chance.
Coming from maf it's much more likely because they know they're both town. GB's reaction is not town. Simple as

[Knightmare491]

/in before mafia miller lmao

[Knightmare491]

I know, just a dumb joke

[Knightmare491]

There's a chance we do not have cop with there being two millers, so that said cop doesn't get those false positives and the millers are there just for lol bantz

[Knightmare491]

I'll check what farside said about RP, I'm more sold on GB being scum tho.

[Knightmare491]

Come on Mavs, push on persivul is bad.

Consider these 2 things.

As scum, Persi - fake claims rolecop to clear you

or

Doesn't give a shit and let's you get lynched


It makes way more sense for him to just let you get lynched today as scum, not clear you.

[Knightmare491]

MOD be like: here take 2 millers(best way to deal with this role is to claim day 1 immediately)

*PSYCHE*

there is no cop bwahaha

[Knightmare491]

There's a lot to do with mafia not killing wake, killing PRs is a higher priority for them. Yes wake can't be lynched and they'll have to kill him at some point but killing him night 1 would be pointless.

[Knightmare491]

@GB what are you trying to say by saying that I'm being opportunistic? You think I'm opportunistic scum? Then where's the vote?

[Knightmare491]

@mavs talk to me about your GB read please.

[Knightmare491]

WAIT, @Tanner your username is a ref from Driver SF?
It just clicked because of your title.

[Knightmare491]

Both on wagons gaining traction. It feels like you only want a safe place to park your vote. And both are very safe wagons.

VOTE: Knightmare491

Thank you for scum claiming with this OMGUS vote. I'm the only vote on you, how does that count as a "wagon gaining traction?"

[Knightmare491]

Because the limelight was on me at the time, and you provided minimal comments on my slot, while voting me. It honestly seems like i'm your vanity wagon right now.

BS, I'm the only one talking about you.

[Knightmare491]

How rare is double miller?

I still struggle to see how this is town reaction to two millers. Someone who's been on the site since September last year and has played many games.

[Knightmare491]

BS, I'm the only one talking about you.

Currently, yeah. The point is that I think your push is safe and insincere.

First you say popular wagon, then you say it's safe. Can you decide on one thing?

[Knightmare491]

Doesn't look like GB is a viable lynch for today,

so, VOTE: Riabi

This slot just looks like it's happy to sit back and let town destroy itself while claiming to have not caught.

I don't really have a problem with the RP wagon, just her entry post day 2 is not something I would expect scum to make.

[Knightmare491]

caught up*

[Knightmare491]

So... Town is destroying itself right now? BUT you also don't have a problem with the RP wagon? lol. What is your actual read on RP/Lucaslot right now?

Panda slot is null for me, which is why I'm okay with it being wagoned.

Luca didn't post much, don't really get much of a read off that, wouldn't mind it being wagoned too.

[Knightmare491]

page 1 down i already have a scumread (kngithmare)

This seems like a forced read. I just asked a question in the hope of getting a discussion going if anything. How is that AI. Seems like a made up read.

[Knightmare491]

I meant it more in the sense of there is no real co ordination between the votes, there is no real town bloc. People who should be relatively clear for today are being suspected, ie, Persivul.

[Knightmare491]

I sware I hate myself. I just read Wake's iso and I want to just smack them.

same

[Knightmare491]

Prana has been selling conspiracy theories all game. Honestly would not mind lynching him.

[Knightmare491]

Actually

VOTE: PD

Let's see how much support this gets.

[Knightmare491]

Would like to see Eve's catch up, a fresh perspective is always nice.

[Knightmare491]

Actually

VOTE: PD

Let's see how much support this gets.

So... in the past you pulled me up on something long after you had ignored it, purely to latch onto it after someone else mentioned it, and now, after I actually start reading fully, and state I don't wish to get drawn into set up discussion... you try claiming that's all I'm trying to do...

Yeah, I don't like that at all, you feel like you are merely trying to hop around onto popular wagons and opinions and aren't really doing much else.

JC, you have infinite misrep capacity. Do you understand the meaning of doing something all game vs doing only something all game? I said the former, you are saying I said the latter.

[Knightmare491]

I don't know if PD is stupid town now or as scum he's just pretending to tunnel Persi.

[Knightmare491]

Knightmare #317 deliberately tries to make out I was ignoring Drew. I pointed it out at the time that he deliberately and wilfully ignored the fact I was willing to hammer Drew when the time came, while he was apparently going through my ISO. This is fake "scum hunting" quite clearly. Still happy with my scum team.

This is BS

[Knightmare491]

@Knightmare

I've said elsewhere that I'm not voting Drew right now, but am happy to be the hammer. I do not wish to rush a lynch when there's information to gather. If you were doing a true ISO of me you would have seen that. So why did you deliberately omit it to try and make out I refuse to vote Drew?

That's not what I said.................................................................

In my post I'm talking about the time there were three votes on Drew and he hadn't claimed yet, I felt like you had enough reason to vote there but didn't. This is another misrepresentation/shade throw attempt from you.

I clarified this in that ^ post

[Knightmare491]

I'll vote/hammer RP for lynch if needed, but I'm really feeling PD is scum now.

[Knightmare491]

I don't mind doing it either.

[Knightmare491]

intent to hammer

Co incidentally I don't remember the last time I hammered someone. :thinks:

[Knightmare491]

Yet another neg utility? hell no

[Knightmare491]

I'll hammer unless anyone else wants to say anything?

[Knightmare491]

Cause you are lynched either way, as a last ditch attempt to survive maybe.

[Knightmare491]

VOTE: Red Panda

Look at GB tomorrow and PD

[Knightmare491]

I hate this game.

[Knightmare491]

I think we should mass claim today, if we do not lynch maf today, then we'll be in lylo and mass claim is useless after that. Thoughts?

[Knightmare491]

Look at this progression of Una read from PD, he goes from being a scum read to a town read(?)
It would make more sense if Una was in null because below are the only three points he makes about Una, in which the last one he says that he could be scum. I don't think the things that he has said can justify PD reading Una as town now.

Spoiler:

So... Scum team is leaning in the grouping of:
Persivul
Knightmare
Panda
Una

Una #511 Makes the same point I've been making regarding Persivul.

Una #515 This is good. Una could easily have coasted off the rolecop claim if he were scum, and brought up stuff as wifom later, but he pushes the fact that a rolecop claim doesn't have to be town.

Una #574 Good posting by Una, and against my bad posting. Una could be scum still, and distancing brilliantly... but I'm not so sure there.

Final conclusion:

Reads are:

Town:
Eve

Likely town:
Mavs
Popo
Una

Null:
George
Tanner
Riabi

Scum:
Persivul
Knightmare
Panda

[Knightmare491]

Maybe. Though I'd feel more comfortable with that suggestion if you'd done something today. What are your thoughts on Prana/Persi?

Honestly wild idea, both of them are town.

tin foil hat aside, I think PD is more likely to be scum, Persivul being 1 shot does hamper my town read on him a bit and the fact that he didn't get NKed when scum did not know that he was 1 shot so he could investigate them. Yes it's possible that scum were scared of there being a doctor in the setup but meh.

[Knightmare491]

VOTE: PD

[Knightmare491]

IC's reads weren't whack, they didn't have any reads. (I mean wake)

[Knightmare491]

from how fast i blazed through reading eve's iso though (given my mach-12 rate of reading given my astronomical IQ) it seemed like she had reads, though?

That's why I said wake..........

[Knightmare491]

I think PD is unlikely to be scum then, Tanner too looks like he was being taken for a ride by scum! Persi rather than him hard TRing his buddy.

[Knightmare491]

Persi, how accurate is 644 right now?

Here's where I am:

Town - mavs, tanner
Lean Town - Knightmare
Scummy side of null - Unabomber, Riabi
Scum - George, popo, prana

I was more confident in that scum team a couple days ago, but Una and Riabi going quiet has me concerned.

You?

Would have to read interactions but Una and Riabi probably both scum. Could be GB too hm.

[Knightmare491]

wait, then Persivul isn't 1-shot?

This rang the alarm bells in my head.
Ofc he isn't why did you ask this dumb question.

[Knightmare491]

VOTE: Persivul

[Knightmare491]

DUDE, he claimed rolecop, you think Town rolecop visits an IC?

[Knightmare491]

UNVOTE:

Too early for l-1, we need to give time to everyone to come and discuss this.

[Knightmare491]

In a world where you think he's lying about his role, why would you care if he's 1 shot or not. He should be auto scum for you.

[Knightmare491]

Just because someone lies about their role, doesn't mean they're scum.

In this case yes because there is no kind of NA that can be justified on an IC except protective and Eve died so that cannot be it.

[Knightmare491]

Prana would be cleared (my bad Prana...).

Actually would not go this far. His Persivul scum read could just be from a position of knowledge rather than having an SR on him. It makes sense, both bus each other to death and then when either of them is lynched ride the town creds for victory.
Given that the Rolecop thing was a gmabit I would not count this out.

[Knightmare491]

Persivul could just be goon, we don't know if he actually is a role cop. As to why he could be doing the kill, because his partners are scummier than him and maybe they were expecting TPRs to target them?

[Knightmare491]

Scum JK is equal to RB only. With the amount of neg utility we have there is no way scum have an RB.

[Knightmare491]

We can massclaim to solve this, protectives claim VT cause there's no point outing those roles. Town must have some investigative power and I'm not gonna lynch an un CCed tracker.

[Knightmare491]

pedit: i mean then the whole point of a massclaim gets kinda fucked if the protectives don't out
also the Tracker is CCed by Persivul claiming he hasn't gone anywhere

ofc he'd say that lol
I meant in terms of balance. You realise that town should have some investigative power right? and 1 shot RC isn't enough with so much negative utility? So if there is no other investigative PR the popo has to be telling the truth.

[Knightmare491]

then*

[Knightmare491]

Look at this read progression, Persivul was a TR, why would popo push Persivul suddenly on the next day? Esp since they've got me and Prana in the scumpool too, PD is a very easy push to make today. Why go after Persivul?

townreads - persi, mavs, GB, Una (im tired i will try and work out a few more townreads tomorrow)

scumreads - redpanda, prana, knight (in that order)

VOTE: Prana

Town encryptor, but not neighbor or neighborizer, is really weird.

Full disclosure: I was 1X. I withheld that yesterday to see if scum would target me N2. Prana's setup attempt largely negated that. Still, scum probably don't have something obvious like strongman.

very convenient to be a 1 shot.

persivuls actions make a lot of sense coming from scum. mavsfan had already claimed miller in thread and i think the consensus was that he was telling the truth. even with the rolecop inspect. persivul gets to get big town cred like he's a pr but avoids having to be accountable for any night actions moving forward, avoids having to give results THAT CAN EASILY BE DISPROVED. Just imagine for one second that persivul IS scum, of course he would claim 1 shot today because he cant confirm his role any longer because no1 else has outed there role in thread.

vote:persivul

im still scum reading nightmare.

persivul lied yesterday and i believe he is still not being truthful with us.

[Knightmare491]

No. Nothing guarantees there's a single investigative role in this game.

I suggest you look at completed mini normals.

[Knightmare491]

(1) PD might be his partner
(2) persivul lynch leaves scum in a great position tomorrow

#1000

That would be pretty terrible play, would lead to both of them getting lynched back to back if Persi is town.

[Knightmare491]

I think Tanner and Persivul are opposite alignments, I don't understand how he still thinks Persivul is town. He either knows he's town that's why he's pushing for a popo lynch(bussing) for town cred. He can't be scum with Persivul, wouldn't defend their buddy like this.

[Knightmare491]

Dude like half of those setups have masons, those are like unlynchable roles, town RBs/Jaillkeepers are like weak investigative roles.

[Knightmare491]

I think he's scum are you are town, because I do not expect a scum buddy to defend like this.
But if Persi flips town I wouldn't be surprised if the scum team is popo+tanner+Riabi/PD

[Knightmare491]

persivul lied yesterday and i believe he is still not being truthful with us.

This is a soft, do you think she planned this on night 2? That if they get put on L-1, they'll fakeclaim a result on Persivul?
Why not go after someone else, someone who'd be easier to lynch.

[Knightmare491]

Dude like half of those setups have masons, those are like unlynchable roles, town RBs/Jaillkeepers are like weak investigative roles.

Dude, I claimed an investigative role, and saved mavs by doing so.

Popo is claiming an investigative role, at L-1, in order to save his skin.

Either way we have an investigative role.

popo's day play today makes sense from the point of view that they are a PR who had a guilty on you so I believe them over you.

[Knightmare491]

Persi and mavs planned this whole counterclaim a Miller confirm buddy by fakeclaiming Rolecop thing. Someone planned something.

I don't believe that scum persi and scum mavs planned it. I think there's a scenario where Persivul is scum and mavs isn't.

[Knightmare491]

The fact that farside was killed night 1 also points towards Persivul scum.

[Knightmare491]

@Tanner, we know that one of Persivul and popo is scum, why do you want to lynch a tracker over an essentially VT?

[Knightmare491]

PD is the worst town ever or scum, there's no in between. I don't even understand how he has those reads.

[Knightmare491]

@mavs
have you read my points about you/Persi being aligned?

Do you really think you're the second Miller in a game with not only no means to confirm either Miller,

but that also scum!Persi decided to "deepwolf" and save you as opposed to letting you get lynched tomorrow?

I'll be honest I totally forgot about this. I'll give it some thought.

[Knightmare491]

What about Prana's reads can't you understand? He's voting Persi, and he can apprently see me as scum. I'd say your reads are quite similar.

He has you, persi and me in the scum pool. Tell me which universe that is possible in.

[Knightmare491]

Let's do one thing. Let's just fucking mass claim. If we lynch wrong then it's becomes pointless.

[Knightmare491]

I get your point. Let's mass claim tho

[Knightmare491]

@knightmare please stop ignoring this thank you.

Comment on this?

My issue there is that Knight can apparently see me as Town being fooled by scum!you, but can't see me as Town genuinely believing Town!you, when from Town!me's PoV, there's no visible difference between the two.

I don't know, like I said I forgot about the 2 miller requiring to confirm one thing. Considering that it makes sense that you believe persivul over popo as town.

[Knightmare491]

Maybe I'm just tunneled on my George=VI read.

lol

[Knightmare491]

Someone finalise an order in which we massclaim so that we can do this properly..............

[Knightmare491]

Prana - Ruby - Knight - George - Una - Tanner

I'm okay with this

[Knightmare491]

I want the riabi slot to come in the thread and do SOMETHING

[Knightmare491]

2 things make sense and I cannot decide which one I should go with.

[Knightmare491]

Like the fact that popo is doing nothing but shouting that Persi is scum makes me think it's popo tbh. I expect a town PR who's most likely dead tomorrow to do a lot more.

[Knightmare491]

Also @Knigtmare, considering I see you're online but you're not exactly posting, what do you think of my case above that explains why town!Tanner/scum!Persi is practically impossible, considering that was one of your (obviously made in good faith) hypotheses?

yeah I get it. It makes sense, but it's just optimal play and we can't really say that scum would always play optimally.

[Knightmare491]

VOTE: popo

[Knightmare491]

Whatever happens in this game I hope the scum PT is a good read.

[Knightmare491]

popo has done nothing but shout lynch Persivul today, why are you voting Persivul.

[Knightmare491]

What else do you want popopopo to do when they claim to have a guilty on Persivul?

I agree with Tanner about, if Persivul is scum then mavs is too because there is no way there are 2 millers in this game without there being a way to stop mislynching 2 townies in a row. And as scum it makes little sense to pull of a gambit like that because once one is lynched the other will also get lynched.

Voting popo is the best option today.

[Knightmare491]

In the trade we get an automatic lynch on popopo tomorrow, and a follow-up on Prana the day after.

Why is PD getting auto lynched on day 5?

[Knightmare491]

Didn't expect it that early from PD.

[Knightmare491]

I will set an alarm for 1 hour before deadline, and check the game state then.

[Knightmare491]

I think it's PD+Una

[Knightmare491]

Yeah this is def scum ^

[Knightmare491]

I'm okay with that

[Knightmare491]

Vote Count 3.5

Ruby Red

Riabi

(0)

GeorgeBailey (1)Ruby Red;

mavsfan41 (0)

popopopopopopo

Luca Blight

(2)Tanner;Persivul;

UnaBombaH (0)

PranaDevil (0)

Knightmare491 (0)

Persivul (3)PranaDevil;popopopopopopo;mavsfan41;

Tanner (0)

NoLynch(0)

Not Voting(3):UnaBombaH;Knightmare491;GeorgeBailey;

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.
Day 3 ends in (expired on 2020-05-12 11:14:00) or when a lynch has been achieved.

Ruby Red is being replaced. Deadline extended by 12 hours because the slot is still not filled. This is the

last

extension.

Like it really should be obvious to any townie that I'm town just based on this VC and flip. I had enough reason to vote Persivul yesterday but I chose to rethink about plays, content and mechanics which I why I voted popo. I could have easily voted Persivul yesterday which would either force a lynch on Persivul or a no lynch. I had no reason to vote popo there if I was a scumbuddy.

[Knightmare491]

I still think George is Town.

FTR I also do think he is town based on interaction with popo. I don't think a scum! GB changes their mind so many times, etc.
I don't think he can fake those reactions of reconsiderations as scum,

It's some combination of PD/Una/Ruby for the 2 scum.

[Knightmare491]

Question for anyone still thinking I'm scum.

Why do I, voluntarily no less, offer to vote popo to avoid a no lynch? (Note, I did this BEFORE anyone else followed me and said the same).

I could have easily ignored it and let no lynch happen as scum, which Persi even pointed out would have been great for scum (and he would have been right. Today would have just resumed the back and forth between him and popo, with popo being able to lie about their night actions).

popo only needed one more vote, it wasn't required for you to move, Una could have voted popo too.

[Knightmare491]

I'm Vanilla ice cream, next.

[Knightmare491]

GB, claim?

[Knightmare491]

:/ actually there is, but i guess waiting for replacement is safer for now. If popo is scum role cop they'd know I'm VT and hence I didnt go anywhere.

I checked his iso thrice to find this. He did claim it outright, probably why it did not register in my head.

[Knightmare491]

In a setup like this where town only has two PRs, IC & the one shot RC. Would there be any harm in giving the scum ungated or shot limited investigatives? Since almost everyone is a VT it makes no real difference.

[Knightmare491]

did

didn't*

[Knightmare491]

I reread your ISO up to Day 4. It seemed to me that up until the Tracker fakeclaim, you were way more suspiciouf of popo and were townreading Persi. Is that correct? Why was your first thought to believe popo over Persi, and what swayed you back onto popo?

I was way more suspicious in the sense that popo was null scum and persivul was town lean. He was strong town the day before but due to the fact that he hadn't been killed after his claim made me a bit nervous about him. When popo claimed to have a guilty on Persivul, I looked back at their iso and they play on day 3 immediately made sense to me.

[Knightmare491]

ebwop

I looked back at their iso and their* play on day 3 immediately made sense to me.

[Knightmare491]

VOTE: PD

[Knightmare491]

Can we talk about this? Do you still think it's Una?

yes his antics around deadline did not seem town to me. I haven't re read day 2 yet, which you brought up a point about(?)
I'll do that soon.

[Knightmare491]

Day 1 VC

Spoiler:

Drew-Sta

(7)

Persivul;mavsfan41

;Knightmare491;Riabi;

farside22

;GeorgeBailey;UnaBombaH;

UnaBombaH (1)

Drew-Sta

;

PranaDevil (1)

Luca Blight

;

Knightmare491 (1) Tanner;

Persivul (1) PranaDevil;

Not Voting(2):

Red Panda;Wake88

;

[Knightmare491]

Day 2 VC

Spoiler:

Knightmare491 (2) GeorgeBailey;PranaDevil;

Red Panda

(6)Tanner;

Persivul

;

popopopopopopo

;

Eve

;

mavsfan41

;Knightmare491;

Tanner (1)

Red Panda

;

Not Voting (2): Riabi;UnaBombaH;

[Knightmare491]

@Persi, @Tanner what do you guys think about this, what do you think is more likely? Scum! PD not paying attention on his read progression on his buddy Una or a town! Una?

Look at this progression of Una read from PD, he goes from being a scum read to a town read(?)
It would make more sense if Una was in null because below are the only three points he makes about Una, in which the last one he says that he could be scum. I don't think the things that he has said can justify PD reading Una as town now.

Spoiler:

So... Scum team is leaning in the grouping of:
Persivul
Knightmare
Panda
Una

Una #511 Makes the same point I've been making regarding Persivul.

Una #515 This is good. Una could easily have coasted off the rolecop claim if he were scum, and brought up stuff as wifom later, but he pushes the fact that a rolecop claim doesn't have to be town.

Una #574 Good posting by Una, and against my bad posting. Una could be scum still, and distancing brilliantly... but I'm not so sure there.

Final conclusion:

Reads are:

Town:
Eve

Likely town:
Mavs
Popo
Una

Null:
George
Tanner
Riabi

Scum:
Persivul
Knightmare
Panda

[Knightmare491]

@Persivul. seeing as it's likely that you'll get killed tonight I would like you to share your final thoughts. Same with Tanner to an extent.

[Knightmare491]

Knight, who are your top 3 scum reads?

I'm undecided between una & puppy for 3rd scum. Near the end of day 3 it felt like Una was scum trying to get you lynched or force a no lynch when he voted there. I also find it interesting that he hammered Drew while he was off both the RP and popo wagons.

Puppy is just eh, previous slots did nothing.

[Knightmare491]

I'm undecided between una & puppy for 3rd scum.

To be clear, are you saying your 3 are prana, una, puppy, just not sure how to order una and puppy?

yes

[Knightmare491]

How many days do we have? We're going to lynch between PD, Una and Puppy then we can try to eliminate pairs and lynch accordingly.

[Knightmare491]

How many days do we have? We're going to lynch between PD, Una and Puppy then we can try to eliminate pairs and lynch accordingly.

See above. George and tanner don't like prana/puppy, so IMO the lynch order is prana-una-puppy.

cool

[Knightmare491]

this is a useless list based off the assumption that scum bussed, if puppy is scum he could not have bussed anyway.

[Knightmare491]

yep

[Knightmare491]

lmao,
quality

[Knightmare491]

Seems to me he's referring to the fact that the slot was empty then. Empty slots can't bus.

You shouldn't have, I wanted to see his mind blowing theory trying to frame me.

[Knightmare491]

I've said multiple times it's two of PD/Una/puppy. POE

[Knightmare491]

puppy, una

[Knightmare491]

I'm currently thinking Una/Knight.

The nk would suggest that yeah.
I'm not sure why they killed Tanner over you. Maybe they were scared that he would pull more weight in lylo, not sure.

[Knightmare491]

From my POV it's pretty clear, I do not see GB being scum due to interactions with popo and Persivul cannot be scum.
So it has to be puppy + una by POE.

[Knightmare491]

From my POV it's pretty clear, I do not see GB being scum due to interactions with popo and Persivul cannot be scum.
So it has to be puppy + una by POE.

This is exactly why I cannot be scum, due to my day 3 play. If I was actually scum I never vote popo, either get force a no lynch by voting Persivul or get him lynched. That's a straight ticket to lylo plus getting rid of confirmed town.
Kill tanner the next night, then lynch popo, kill mavs. Then today would be lylo with PD still available to mislynch with whoever my imaginary scum buddy is.
All of that did not happen.

[Knightmare491]

i just don't get this

yesterday you voted pd, today you are suggesting that no scum bussed popo D3 if you think it's me/una

it seems like u missed a step. why did you decide no scum bussed popo? did that not factor into your PD vote yesterday?

I didn't decide scum bussed popo or not. PD was scummy independently (have mentioned why, check iso).
He was pushing the angle of scum must have bussed popo therefore one of me/gb had to be scum. Which is just terrible VCA more than anything else.

[Knightmare491]

@Persivul, what do you think about

1738?

[Knightmare491]

Scum hammer FFS

[Knightmare491]

UNVOTE NOW

[Knightmare491]

Tanner and PD don't matter, this is so frustrating FGS

[Knightmare491]

PD had horrible reads all game, he's also wrong on me. Scum had to kill one of Tanner or you. You're literally throwing the game on useless NKA

[Knightmare491]

Think of what is more compelling, NKA or the fact that I as scum have made this game harder for me for no fucking reason and you'll get you'll get your answer.

[Knightmare491]

What kinda case do you expect me to make on a slot which replaced in on day 3, with the previous slot having no content?

[Knightmare491]

I've talked about una already.

[Knightmare491]

VOTE: Persivul -

I hope George does the right thing for town and makes sure we at least get a lynch.

My votes is based mainly on mavs' play today, and obviously the contradicting claims.
I have a good hunch that no matter what Persivul flips today, town still has a good chance of pulling through.
Much depends on the replacement though, and if Persivul happens to flip green, how well Tanner can check themself.

What else do you want popopopo to do when they claim to have a guilty on Persivul?

What else do you want popopopo to do when they claim to have a guilty on Persivul?

I agree with Tanner about, if Persivul is scum then mavs is too because there is no way there are 2 millers in this game without there being a way to stop mislynching 2 townies in a row. And as scum it makes little sense to pull of a gambit like that because once one is lynched the other will also get lynched.

Voting popo is the best option today.

popo has done nothing but shout lynch Persivul today, why are you voting Persivul.

You think this is staged?
When Una voted you at that critical point in time, I tried to get him to vote popo.
You think it's Una+me, does that make sense to you?

[Knightmare491]

Just double ISO'd you and luca/popo again. Your interactions are almost nonexistent.

That's just conf bias my friend. If you see I did not interact with many players. It doesn't mean anything.

[Knightmare491]

I don't really believe in having 20 page arguments with scum as to why they are scum. It just makes the thread impossible to read and makes town apathetic towards the game.

[Knightmare491]

You can at least unvote me.

[Knightmare491]

So you've decided to throw this game away based on nka. Cool

[Knightmare491]

I didn't leave it to you to decide. I've constantly maintained I thought it is Una + puppy today.
Voting without knowing anyone's opinions is reckless in lylo. Which is why I did not vote.

[Knightmare491]

VOTE: puppy

I tried.

I'm not not take the blame for the loss when people want to take mad leaps in faith to see me as scum.

[Knightmare491]

Yeah 2 of them are scum.

[Knightmare491]

Mad leap in faith?

and yes it is, you somehow think it's better for me to play in such a manner as to extend the game and make it harder for myself to win.

[Knightmare491]

You think this is staged?

I've already said that I think Una's vote/unvote is sus, yes. Does it look natural to you?

It doesn't I think it was a last ditch attempt to get you lynched.

[Knightmare491]

because it did not matter whether he gets you lynched or gets a no lynch, both were favorable to scum. The latter even more favorable.

[Knightmare491]

And as you can see he did not come back to vote. They were probably hoping for a no lynch.

[Knightmare491]

Because i'm trying to imagine a scenario where Persivul is town and he visits Eve.

VOTE: Persivul

DUDE, he claimed rolecop, you think Town rolecop visits an IC?

This is actually something worth pondering about.

DO NOT VOTE PERSIVUL TO THE ROPE YET.

Why the fuck would a claimed role cop make the night kill? Seems like obvious tracker bait. If Perisvul is scum, weird decision.

Intent to vote Persivul but don’t want a self-hammer in this situation.

Prana would be cleared (my bad Prana...).

THIS.
Exactly this.
Think about it folks - if Persivul were to be a scum!RoleCop, he would never check OR kill Eve here.
They already knew Eves role since it was globally revealed, and they'd want a result from Persivul.
So someone else would've done the killing anyway since Eve was the target.

When popo fake claims a guilty on you, Una tries to dissipate the pressure on you and says that scum! you does not make sense. But then he eventually drops this thought process and proceeds to vote you over popo. Does this make sense to you?

[Knightmare491]

They both are scum, unless there are only 2 in this game. So it does not matter who I vote from the 2 of them.
Happy with lynching either.

[Knightmare491]

Go have a look at day 3 and see hoe close it was to a no lynch.

[Knightmare491]

how*

[Knightmare491]

Yeah bussing when lynching persivul, then popo then PD is a much faster way to win con. Sure

[Knightmare491]

Obviously he was pushing Una, he knew PD was getting lynched anyway and their only way to win is distancing.

[Knightmare491]

We lose as soon as Una comes online. All because you're being an idiot. Anyway..........

[Knightmare491]

I'm not a town leader type of player, I've done what I needed to do. Made it clear to everyone that I cannot be scum and it should have made it easier for you to narrow down the scum.
But you choose to go with dodgy nka. That's your choice.

[Knightmare491]

lol that means it's either puppy+george or only 2 scum.

[Knightmare491]

You'll know when I flip. So THIS IS 11v2. Unless scum are trolling for no reason. I feel like Drew must have felt. Oh well.

[Knightmare491]

So that counts out Una+puppy for all of you out there still counting, right?

But it reinforces Knight/Una.

Knight's reaction to getting voted isn't great. So I'm pretty sure Knight is the best lynch for today.

If Knight was town he would have been quick lynched already too.

Yeah bussing when lynching persivul, then popo then PD is a much faster way to win con. Sure

Bussing is meant to gain town cred. Of course it makes it easier for scum. What would have been your preferred route?

I already said what the preferred route would have been.

[Knightmare491]

This setup is whack.

[Knightmare491]

Implosion is opening mini normal reviews threads.
I soooooooooooo want to read why the fuck the mods allowed this.

[Knightmare491]

2 hours since hammer and no comment from knight makes me feel pretty good right now ngl

cause it was night time and I had to fucking sleep.

[Knightmare491]

[Knightmare491]

lol so Tanner was you, Datisi!
I had fun playing with you. You probably were the best town in the game.

[Knightmare491]

Persivul I really do not understand how you wanted to lynch me because Tanner got killed n4 and then you wanted to lynch Una in lylo. Why did you think he's bring you to lylo.