Mini Normal 2153: Post-game

[Dunnstral]

Dang I'm fast. How does he do it?

[Dunnstral]

14 real life days (168 hours)

[Dunnstral]

^Why?

[Dunnstral]

You guys know 'vote' isn't the word that is being restricted

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: bob3141

Scummy posts

[Dunnstral]

And that's the 2nd post after that one.

Good point, want to vote him?

[Dunnstral]

popsofctown is my alt.

Spoiler:

[Dunnstral]

Me on page 8:



Me on page 80:

[Dunnstral]

What do you expect from bob?

[Dunnstral]

What do you expect from bob?

I've been in a game where he was active enough day 1 as town to step in and try and stop a wagon that was about to lynch smeone they thought shouldn't be, and was high profile enough that they then got themselves lynched.

this game....not like that at all. very passive

Get this man some sheep for his wagon, asap

[Dunnstral]

And mind you, everyone, I'm not a HUGE fan of "townblocs" in general, and I would be scolding Hoopla for this one as well (like I did last game :igmeou: ), but I think this is just how they play as town and they need it either for solving or entertainment purposes. :lol:
Me being a part of this bloc of Hoopla this time around is neither here nor there.

I WILL be calling out Hoopla if I smell scum on that bloc, but so far they have at least been more reserved with how they include people in.
And one good example of them doing better than what I was afraid of - notscience not being included in their latest townreads just because they have a "solid townread" on Hoopla.
I'm not saying they've outright become a scumread for me, but they are definitely teetering on the edge.. :igmeou:

^una steadfastly resisting the town bloc invitation.

okay

okay

, we get it. you're town. there's no need to convince us further with this coy display.

just relax and accept the rightful privilege afforded to the town bloc elite.

Or he's scum and doesn't want to seem overeager, which yields a similar reaction. You pointing this out made me a bit suspicious of him.

Looking over t heir iso more closely, doesn't it seem like he''s maneuvering in a way where he sets himself up to suspect a few people, or pivot to certain players, while calling others town, it feels manipulative to me.

Like in 153, and [post]287[/v] for his suspects

VOTE: UnaBombaH

[Dunnstral]

...^^ is a very weird jump off of a weak wagon onto a moon logic pov.

I can't work out what I think about it, but it's making me head tilt

Bad reaction

[Dunnstral]

let's get her

VOTE: Bellaphant

[Dunnstral]

Hoopla and Isis are scummy

[Dunnstral]

As soon as I started calling certain people scum there was a perceptible shift in the way people started treating me

[Dunnstral]

People I'd be interested in lynching today is starting to look something like this:

bob3141
Sujimichi●
Bellaphant
Emperor flippyNips
Hoopla
popopopopopopo

With like meh maybes on Galron and Dunn.

You shouldn't be ok with my lynch

[Dunnstral]

You and UnaB and it looks bad for you and neutral for UnaB

There's a notable lack of responding to things from Isis where I expect one

Hoopla's push on me is bad

[Dunnstral]

Because you threw shade at me twice

[Dunnstral]

That is unclear, but this is when it started:

Maybe dunn in the red but nothing re hoops.

UNVOTE:

I don’t think. I wanna be on a dunn lead wagon

[Dunnstral]

346 was in response to una
395 is in response to hoopla and isis

As soon as I started calling certain people scum there was a perceptible shift in the way people started treating me

So its not clear but clear enough to mention?

Or you got caught in a lie and are trying to rectify it.

clear enough to mention after you've asked me 4 or so questions, sure

[Dunnstral]

or someone needing twice as many votes to be lynched.

14?

[Dunnstral]

Bellaphant moving me to a scumlean there means she is scum.

[Dunnstral]

It's pretty much exactly what I expected for her to do if she was scum. Let's kill her.

[Dunnstral]

Bad interactions between Bellaphant and Notscience as well

[Dunnstral]

I remember playing with dun years back when I (and he) were fairly new and being impressed, so I guess I'm also reading the slot through 'this isn't what I expect'.

Klick is a cuddle sober, tbf. He's generally happy and giggly drunk, but I'm wondering if the wine got him out of his head enough to post more naturally.

We played in 3 games together 3 years back and I was anti-town in all of them

[Dunnstral]

Yes I am, and I pointed to why

I thought they were trying to stir the pot and scavenge some reads from that,

I kind of was with Isis/Hoopla. I think some of the things Hoopla has been pushing is questionable

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Hoopla

B-1 (1 vote away from being Bumped-off)

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:

No

Why did that wagon go from 0 to l-1 in 2 pages and 12 hours

Hoops calling that wagon of nully/scummy people town was like...the real issue here..plus the random Pockety post towards me.

I do agree with this post I don’t know if I commented it already

I still agree spiritually just the speed of the wagon is giving me the heebie jeebies

Bad reaction to be quite honest

[Dunnstral]

Dunn putting it at L-1 is sketchy but not inherently bad.

Why do you keep taking potshots at me?

[Dunnstral]

This isn't last game, you guys should get over it

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral did you win a scumgame or something

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=83142

Dunn putting it at L-1 is sketchy but not inherently bad.

Why do you keep taking potshots at me?

[citation needed]

Here are my sources:

I hadn't quite realized that Bob had only posted the 'second' lol. That does make Dunn's vote pretty weird.

VOTE: Bellaphant

Your favorite show is on downstairs Bella :P

I dunno, there's not much to work with. Dunn could stand to try a lot harder, because if everyone had his approach to the early-game then we'd never reach Page 80. I'm surprised you're engaging as much as you are, because you usually say exactly what Dunn's saying right now about the early game. What's different about this game?

People I'd be interested in lynching today is starting to look something like this:

bob3141
Sujimichi●
Bellaphant
Emperor flippyNips
Hoopla
popopopopopopo

With like meh maybes on Galron and Dunn.

Don't relieve pressure now, Hoopla hasn't even seen what we've done with the place :P
I remember there being a few fast wagons last game? I guess the difference is that they weren't on Hoopla.

I think the core of this wagon has been town-driven. Isis feels town, Bella's approach to it has been good, you and Una are town. Dunn putting it at L-1 is sketchy but not inherently bad.

This is amidst you calling me town sporadically so it's pretty weird

[Dunnstral]

A scummier rear end to the wagon means the scumteam doesn't think you're seriously likely to get exiled...

As a reminder I'm town and it doesn't matter how "scummy" I am

[Dunnstral]

A scummier rear end to the wagon means the scumteam doesn't think you're seriously likely to get exiled...

As a reminder I'm town and it doesn't matter how "scummy" I am

I've said I townread you, so why did you assume you were the part of the rear end of the wagon I was indicating? I've been liking you but that has a sound like "out, damned spot" to it

Because I was the last vote?

[Dunnstral]

to pick up from my last post, i'm aware that i am an opaque player that is largely unreadable early in games. over time, i have since come to accept that fact about myself and lean into it. i do as i please, and hope the town can see the game is going in the right direction. that usually quells paranoia about my play for a while, but i acknowledge in games where we are frequently mis-executing or things are going off the rails i should definitely be a suspect. this puts pressure on me to be correct early in games, or to do enough d1/d2 to scare scum into NK'ing me.

on to some analysis:

fans of my work may have seen in recent times i have been honing my system of "Holistic Abstracts and Heuristic Analytics" (or H.A.H.A for short). this is a special blend of large-scale data analysis (mostly of d1 play, as this is the cleanest data to work with) and with a healthy sprinkling of intuitive magic to guide it all. i am still weighting how valuable each metric is (this is where intuition plays a role), but here are a couple of observations i've noted that are currently influencing my reads;

a useful metric with enough statistical significance i've seen is that of early game wagons. for this data set, i've collected the alignment of every player that has received a wagon of four players within the first 150 posts of games. these numbers were chosen as they symbolically represent the tipping point of a wagon to "something serious", and by ~150 posts or so, we should be out of the RVS stage of the game. these are fluid concepts that vary from game to game (which is why i use the largest sample size i can), but it's a useful data-backed illumination of a tell i often see early in games.

over the last 5 years of 3:10 mini normals:

town

/

scum

ratio of players receiving four votes before 150 game-posts:

86.3%

/

13.7%

.

scum make up ~23% of the town's population D1, so this is a very significant observation and why i think bob is likely town. to explain why this is the case, i hypothesise that the earlier the game is, the more any vote can be justified. and when any vote can be justified, townies will more or less randomly vote/wagon any player, whereas there are 3 scum-votes that are more likely to land on town by virtue of ignoring teammates more often than random. scum are much willing to place the third or fourth vote on a town player for the sake of wagoning than on a partner because any vote can be justified - it's not damning to ignore a teammate's early wagon when it is currently "random". this discrepancy expresses itself in the numbers. townies are much more likely to be the target of an early wagon.

this is also why i pivoted to a dunnstral vote in 52. he was the fourth voter on the wagon citing "scummy posts", when bob had posted just once. that was the vote that made me think that this wagon had landed on town, and this belief grew throughout the game as more players jumped on bob.

~~

folks who played with me in mini 2146 would also remember i revealed some large scale D1 lurking data. i'm relying on this less this game now that is has been exposed, as i suspect players like klick, una and notscience would act in a deliberate way to subvert this, and definitely inform scumbuddies to stay active in any of them are indeed scum. so, i am not considering lurking data in any real way, but a useful corollary i didn't reveal last game is voting frequency to post-count frequency. town vote-hop on d1 at much higher rates than scum, and though i am still in the process of completing this data-set, it appears significant.

this was an influential reason in why i powered and sat on the geraintm wagon as much as i did. he was a classic candidate of scum finding a vote acceptable enough to be unchallenged, then sitting on it without much reevaluation. it takes effort to be constantly reevaluating the gamestate as scum and to find convincing reasons for your opinions to change. this is why we see scum sit on hivemind-approved votes longer than town, as switching votes incurs the risk of receiving additional attention/critique of your play.

players like klick and notscience seem vote-hoppy-happy anyhow, so i don't extend the tell to capable, aware players like them, but i suspect this tell is meaningful for a player like geraintm and why i still suspect him.

we have had a lot of useful wagons so far; one on galron that i haven't spoken about yet comes to mind. realistically, i'd prefer to speak about the d1 wagons as a whole in conjunction with alignment flips (if i make it that far), and will next switch to some behavioural things and PoE work i have been doing behind the scenes.

i will also say i am flustered and annoyed that i am being forced into collating all my views so early in the game. i prefer to do that after churning up the game-thread for information, but it appears this is the way the dice have fallen this game, and i will give the town as much as i can to work with, come what may.

tl;dr; you're scumreading me because of 'statistics' rather than my one play, and you never reevaluated

[Dunnstral]

Isis, would you support a wagon on popopopo?

[Dunnstral]

He is caught up

[Dunnstral]

Well I guess not, they jump between the past and the present like some kind of ghetto time traveler

[Dunnstral]

to any concerned townies,

this is another thing i rarely mention about my play, but feel it may shed light on my actions.

being a dominant force in a game is a blessing and a curse. i try to use my influence as town in the most productive and +EV way as i can. it is hard to for town to see the fruits of my labour this early, but another useful byproduct that comes of it, is it forces literally every player to take a stance on me, or interact with me in some way. given i only know my own alignment as town on d1, i deduce everyone's alignment in relation to my own.

without getting to MD-theoretical, deliberate obfuscation and radically shifting the gamestate's flow is something i encourage to force scum to continually have to adjust, and quite often it shakes out some obvtowns in the process. if i am going to be unreadable anyhow, i may as well selfishly discombobulate the gamestate to better improve my reads. in my eyes, there is nothing to be lost here, and only gains information-wise.

~~

intuitively, i am highly suspicious of klick for the reason Sujimichi documented in 599;

I don't think I'm going to be able to accurately read Hoopla until like Day 3 at best. Until then, Hoopla is a consistently good influence on the gamestate and probably won't be getting executed today.

The current events are interesting given Klick's opinion here.

from my perspective, it is clear there was some opportunism in the early-mid part of my wagon. given klick appears to understand the purpose of my play, his vote is highly suspicious. occam's razor: is it more likely he actually thinks i am scum here, or is he seizing the moment when whispers of hoopla suspicion started floating about? i think the latter. and as a bonus moment of suspicion; calling for bellaphant to join the wagon in 536. isn't she your suspect?

i think klick is manipulating bellaphant turn-of-heart on his alignment to power this wagon, whereas if he is actually town, he would be wary of forming a coalition with a suspect.

i still townread bellaphant on tone, and partially find her town in relation to klick's scumminess. i think the interplay between one another has been too nuanced for them to be both scum together, so i am still townreading her and accept her vote, partially sad, yet also optimistic that she can see the light.

notscience's vote also seemed opportunistic and of all the players voting me, i'd like him to explain his vote. as recently as 518 notscience ruled me as town;

Gera, una (but I’m a little annoyed I’m going to have to argue against his scumread me all game again), klick, you (?), flippy

then he jumps on my wagon in 553, abandoning the dunnstral wagon (who he actually suspects!) to power mine. explain yourself notscience.

una is another vote i can kinda see as being OK - it is at least consistent with how his view on me has evolved throughout the game, and i am still townreading him. i mean, there has to be at least a couple of confused townies voting me; he is probably one of them.

the only two votes i haven't talked about has been the head of the wagon and the caboose; isis and dunnstral. neither ping me overtly one way or another. i see motivations either way.

isis has displayed a healthy/natural amount of paranoia for my slot that i usually come to expect from town players who have dealt with me in the past. i oftentimes find scum will just placate me or attack me in an over-the-top way without any subtlety (for those who read or were in mini 2146 see how pranadevil-scum treated me in that game). my intuition says isis is town based on that, though i think she is one the few personalities with enough verve to take me on as scum head-to-head d1.

as for dunnstral, i am still learning more about him and can go either way on his L-1 vote. its brazen, but it is also in keeping earlier suspicion he expressed on my slot. its brazenness i'd usually consider slightly-town, but in this case see it as more in keeping with character than anything else.

~~

shockingly, i am most suspect of klick's/notscience's votes of me. i really hope the town isn't up against one or both of them as scum as we may be in trouble (especially if i am executed and not around to put them in place).

my dunnstral-vote was an attempt to find common ground with notscience and find out more information about dunnstral's slot, but given i actually have some genuine suspicions now, it's time to move on;

UNVOTE:
VOTE: klick

if i have time today, i'll cover some townreads and some PoE stuff. but felt it was more important to talk about my wagon first.

So you finally explained why you were voting me. You know I knew bob's post history when I said 'scummy posts', I didn't just throw that out there and never check their posts.

Can you stop acting like you're the big kid on the block and this dominant force? That only applies within your pre-arrenged group that all seemed to join this game together

Disagree on the reasoning for scumreading Klick. It's day 1, scum are more likely to adhere to a strict 'I think this person is mafia, so I won't vote with them' policy than town are. To an extent scum bus/you can be wrong on certain reads and that's not a reason to not vote certain people on day 1

Notscience shows this negative tell where right after I join the wagon is icky and they have to jump off it
I think they've had a lot of bad reactions to events this game in fact, so I'm fine with seeing them becoming not alive
VOTE: notscience

I'm lightly scumreading popopopo right now; not a lot to go on, and it's not related to any of my other reads. They kind of suck this game.

[Dunnstral]

nice and towny to taunt me like that

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: popopopopopopo

[Dunnstral]

What changed your mind?

popopo is much more likely to be wagoned in my mind, and I want in on it

[Dunnstral]

oddly specific

[Dunnstral]

notscience doesn't seem to know who the scumteam is.

He should probably check his role pm again then

[Dunnstral]

geraintm (2): popopopopopopo, bob3141

Bad wagon

[Dunnstral]

I had to go and check why I think Dunn is a very good townplayer.

Good as scum as well. Be wary.

@galron

interesting. i saw your town reads post as i was rereading the thread and constructing mine. are you a D1 townhunter? please describe your process.

also, why is flippy town?

No process. They just look like the corner pieces rn.

Flippy's townie on tone. And I like that he took a stance on Dunn.

When are

you

going to take a stance on Dunn?

[Dunnstral]

Funny how I'm getting flak for being the 3/4th voter but I'm the only one getting flak for that

Like, you're pointing to two different positions on the wagon but I'm getting flak for both of them and nobody else is

[Dunnstral]

all he’s done is complain that people are scumreading him

That's not a fair analysis of my play

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: notscience

bad faith argument

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Hoopla

Hoopla is who I'd most like to exile.
The way she describes her mens rea with respect having more doubts based on a previous town roll seems like the way mafia would describe the information rather than how town would, even though it's the same information. It's a little bit hard to explain and an intuition thing but it's come up more than one time. I wouldn't be too prideful to deadsheep her if wrong but she's very much front of the pack for me.

These all sounds like delightful knickknacks I will be happy to deadsheep but can't really view as town-indicative in their own right from Hoopla.

I'm caught up.

Hoopla is still acting scummy and I don't want to vote townier people just to be trendy.

I strongly agree with her townread on bob though and found the bob burst town indicative, especially calibrated for bob.

notscience is such a horrible wagon I'm a little nauseated.

notscience doesn't seem to know who the scumteam is.

I resent being townread by Hoopla

This read seems particularly lame from Isis

[Dunnstral]

The stuff about dun here is demonstrably false?

Demonstrate it.

[Dunnstral]

Galron's posting has gotten a lot better from when he was still talking about ice cream and not doing anything; I like post 735

[Dunnstral]

Apart from the Bob 1 post weirdness (which like...could actually be scum distancing) he's voted me, which got up to a wagon of...3, and hoops, which got to e-2. How are these brave pushes?

Well, you're wrong or misrepresenting what has happened. Here are the votes I've made:

Spoiler:

VOTE: bob3141

Scummy posts

And mind you, everyone, I'm not a HUGE fan of "townblocs" in general, and I would be scolding Hoopla for this one as well (like I did last game :igmeou: ), but I think this is just how they play as town and they need it either for solving or entertainment purposes. :lol:
Me being a part of this bloc of Hoopla this time around is neither here nor there.

I WILL be calling out Hoopla if I smell scum on that bloc, but so far they have at least been more reserved with how they include people in.
And one good example of them doing better than what I was afraid of - notscience not being included in their latest townreads just because they have a "solid townread" on Hoopla.
I'm not saying they've outright become a scumread for me, but they are definitely teetering on the edge.. :igmeou:

^una steadfastly resisting the town bloc invitation.

okay

okay

, we get it. you're town. there's no need to convince us further with this coy display.

just relax and accept the rightful privilege afforded to the town bloc elite.

Or he's scum and doesn't want to seem overeager, which yields a similar reaction. You pointing this out made me a bit suspicious of him.

Looking over t heir iso more closely, doesn't it seem like he''s maneuvering in a way where he sets himself up to suspect a few people, or pivot to certain players, while calling others town, it feels manipulative to me.

Like in 153, and 287[/v] for his suspects

VOTE: UnaBombaH

let's get her

VOTE: Bellaphant

VOTE: Hoopla

B-1 (1 vote away from being Bumped-off)

to any concerned townies,

this is another thing i rarely mention about my play, but feel it may shed light on my actions.

being a dominant force in a game is a blessing and a curse. i try to use my influence as town in the most productive and +EV way as i can. it is hard to for town to see the fruits of my labour this early, but another useful byproduct that comes of it, is it forces literally every player to take a stance on me, or interact with me in some way. given i only know my own alignment as town on d1, i deduce everyone's alignment in relation to my own.

without getting to MD-theoretical, deliberate obfuscation and radically shifting the gamestate's flow is something i encourage to force scum to continually have to adjust, and quite often it shakes out some obvtowns in the process. if i am going to be unreadable anyhow, i may as well selfishly discombobulate the gamestate to better improve my reads. in my eyes, there is nothing to be lost here, and only gains information-wise.

~~

intuitively, i am highly suspicious of klick for the reason Sujimichi documented in 599;

I don't think I'm going to be able to accurately read Hoopla until like Day 3 at best. Until then, Hoopla is a consistently good influence on the gamestate and probably won't be getting executed today.

The current events are interesting given Klick's opinion here.

from my perspective, it is clear there was some opportunism in the early-mid part of my wagon. given klick appears to understand the purpose of my play, his vote is highly suspicious. occam's razor: is it more likely he actually thinks i am scum here, or is he seizing the moment when whispers of hoopla suspicion started floating about? i think the latter. and as a bonus moment of suspicion; calling for bellaphant to join the wagon in 536. isn't she your suspect?

i think klick is manipulating bellaphant turn-of-heart on his alignment to power this wagon, whereas if he is actually town, he would be wary of forming a coalition with a suspect.

i still townread bellaphant on tone, and partially find her town in relation to klick's scumminess. i think the interplay between one another has been too nuanced for them to be both scum together, so i am still townreading her and accept her vote, partially sad, yet also optimistic that she can see the light.

notscience's vote also seemed opportunistic and of all the players voting me, i'd like him to explain his vote. as recently as 518 notscience ruled me as town;

Gera, una (but I’m a little annoyed I’m going to have to argue against his scumread me all game again), klick, you (?), flippy

then he jumps on my wagon in 553, abandoning the dunnstral wagon (who he actually suspects!) to power mine. explain yourself notscience.

una is another vote i can kinda see as being OK - it is at least consistent with how his view on me has evolved throughout the game, and i am still townreading him. i mean, there has to be at least a couple of confused townies voting me; he is probably one of them.

the only two votes i haven't talked about has been the head of the wagon and the caboose; isis and dunnstral. neither ping me overtly one way or another. i see motivations either way.

isis has displayed a healthy/natural amount of paranoia for my slot that i usually come to expect from town players who have dealt with me in the past. i oftentimes find scum will just placate me or attack me in an over-the-top way without any subtlety (for those who read or were in mini 2146 see how pranadevil-scum treated me in that game). my intuition says isis is town based on that, though i think she is one the few personalities with enough verve to take me on as scum head-to-head d1.

as for dunnstral, i am still learning more about him and can go either way on his L-1 vote. its brazen, but it is also in keeping earlier suspicion he expressed on my slot. its brazenness i'd usually consider slightly-town, but in this case see it as more in keeping with character than anything else.

~~

shockingly, i am most suspect of klick's/notscience's votes of me. i really hope the town isn't up against one or both of them as scum as we may be in trouble (especially if i am executed and not around to put them in place).

my dunnstral-vote was an attempt to find common ground with notscience and find out more information about dunnstral's slot, but given i actually have some genuine suspicions now, it's time to move on;

UNVOTE:
VOTE: klick

if i have time today, i'll cover some townreads and some PoE stuff. but felt it was more important to talk about my wagon first.

So you finally explained why you were voting me. You know I knew bob's post history when I said 'scummy posts', I didn't just throw that out there and never check their posts.

Can you stop acting like you're the big kid on the block and this dominant force? That only applies within your pre-arrenged group that all seemed to join this game together

Disagree on the reasoning for scumreading Klick. It's day 1, scum are more likely to adhere to a strict 'I think this person is mafia, so I won't vote with them' policy than town are. To an extent scum bus/you can be wrong on certain reads and that's not a reason to not vote certain people on day 1

Notscience shows this negative tell where right after I join the wagon is icky and they have to jump off it
I think they've had a lot of bad reactions to events this game in fact, so I'm fine with seeing them becoming not alive
VOTE: notscience

I'm lightly scumreading popopopo right now; not a lot to go on, and it's not related to any of my other reads. They kind of suck this game.

VOTE: popopopopopopo

VOTE: notscience

bad faith argument

bob3141 -> UnaBombaH -> Bellaphant -> Hoopla -> notscience -> popopopopopopo -> notscience

[Dunnstral]

And Hoopla got to E-1

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral "bus" Hoopla so I can clear you pls

Spoiler:

[Dunnstral]

Dun, I know? I corrected myself in the next post. Are you making a point or just being pointlessly negative? Coz I can engage with a point....

You said it was demonstrably false; it's not

[Dunnstral]

Are you arguing that you have?

Yes. And you're saying it's demonstratable otherwise, but you won't be able to do so.

[Dunnstral]

Do you think my view on your votes is scummy? Why?

Yes, because it's the kind of attack on a townread that I expect from scum, and I don't think you have good justification to be doing so

[Dunnstral]

Why is everyone voting for Hoopla if she isn't scummy?

I have a theory

[Dunnstral]

What if I just, WHAM, hammered Hoopla?

[Dunnstral]

She hasn't claimed, you're better than that Dunnstral

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11826688
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11867739
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11867889

[Dunnstral]

So you scumread all the lurkers and townread all your friends, with Hoopla being an anomaly

[Dunnstral]

Yes apparently Dunnstral is not better than to lolhammer unclaimeds :(

Don't worry, I was scum in all of those games

[Dunnstral]

it has been my real life birthday recently,

we know, it shows the cake on your profile

[Dunnstral]

bob3141

notscience

geraintm

UnaBombaH
Replacement for Sujimichi

Klick

Bellaphant

Emperor flippyNips
Galron

Hoopla

popopopopopopo

Isis

Dunnstral

Green = friends
Black = neutral
Red = randomly passive-agressive

Tell me if I'm wrong

[Dunnstral]

I was on my phone so I couldn't investigate thoroughly.

I feel trolled.

VOTE: Hoopla

Why are you scumreading Hoopla, again?

[Dunnstral]

it has been my real life birthday recently,

we know, it shows the cake on your profile

Hoopla's account, uniquely across site, is rigged to always show it as both her scumday and birthday

Also I knew this, it was what is known as a joke

[Dunnstral]

I'm used to seeing Isis play cool and collected as scum, so seeing her flail around as much as I do is a fresh experience

[Dunnstral]

I don't get it

[Dunnstral]

I do not understand that Isis unvote -> revote.
I thought I got the unvote until they revoted with...words.

They were scared I'd.... WHAM

[Dunnstral]

So let's vote someone who is neutral to Hoopla's alignment

I'll start us off

VOTE: popopopopo

[Dunnstral]

Must be a big top shelf to explain your play this game. Maybe lay off the drink?

I'm not really a pokemon guy, I lost track when they went past like 500. That green small time travel character is pretty neat

[Dunnstral]

Hoopla's claim makes me suspect them more, not less

[Dunnstral]

And you know he's gonna claim roleblocked on day 3

[Dunnstral]

Yeah, Celebi

I have not drunk posted in this mafia game aside from the past 10-15 minutes

I'm just messing with you

[Dunnstral]

I'd prefer if I weren't bump-offed

[Dunnstral]

"am I playing like I did last time I was scum????"

No, but I always townread you when you're scum

[Dunnstral]

Which means you're probably town, because your posts feel like you've been drunk all game compared to what I'm used to

[Dunnstral]

^what

[Dunnstral]

Might want to double check the key

[Dunnstral]

Wait... how is that useful for day 2? You know what that is

[Dunnstral]

I wasn't a great skeptic, probably because you played those games completely differently

[Dunnstral]

*to this game

[Dunnstral]

I'm not really scumreading you this game

[Dunnstral]

You Isis

Isis, would you support a wagon on popopopo?

[Dunnstral]

I do think your play has felt weird, and your push on Hoopla was weird

[Dunnstral]

you posted a meme of me as a sweaty mafia thoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!

That droplet was alcohol

[Dunnstral]

My avatar?

[Dunnstral]

Let's blow this game WIDE open

vote: popopopopo

[Dunnstral]

Now the rest hop on

[Dunnstral]

Say my name and I will appear

[Dunnstral]

i feel klick would be a challenging project for the town to embark on d1.

more realistic; geraintm

a suitable rival for popo.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: geraintm

Why does popo need a rival?

[Dunnstral]

@una

is notscience scum? i don't want to believe it. i think it would break my heart.

Dunno.
I'm more concerned about flippy this game tbh.

Yeah me too, his lurking is totes scum fuck agenda

I’ll probably read the last 10 pages soon, I’m gonna be a little on the busy side today

Hi loves, content coming soon







...Unless the game has been boring

[Dunnstral]

Who do you think we should wagon?

[Dunnstral]

I like this wagon, just the right amount of resistance from notscience who is trying to appear ambivalent to it. If you're into Hoopla scum theories, he's trying to start competing wagons as well

[Dunnstral]

RFS I still think is under the radar.

I would not vote RFS if popo was mafia

[Dunnstral]

Now would be a great time to place a relevant vote. Or we can eliminate you later down the line after this flips scum, that's cool too.

[Dunnstral]

"It's done" says Emperor flippyNips, he's just crafted his masterpiece of a post. He looks it over once more in satisfaction, there's something beautiful about the simplicity of it all. "I'll vote when I'm ready..." he mutters to himself, but there's nobody around to hear him. He turns to hit computer, it's served him well, but for now its no longer useful to his endeavors. He shuts it off, he doesn't like waiting so he holds down the power button, after a few seconds it shuts down immediately. He doesn't like to waste time on unnecessary things, but most of all he doesn't want to be asked 'are you sure?' No, he wasn't in the mood to make any decisions. He sets an alarm on his phone - 44 hours from now, he'll have to make another post. One or two prods is no big deal, but he doesn't like to rack up too many of them.

[Dunnstral]

Well I'm sorry you feel that way. I recommend growing thicker skin, you'll find a lot worse than a guy being passive-aggressive on this site.

[Dunnstral]

Let it be known that I wasn't the one who has resorted to making personal attacks, though.

[Dunnstral]

I'm talking to Klick, of course, not Isis. I too want to flip popo, especially since it feels like everyone except for Una who has posted recently, who hasn't been on the wagon, has been strangely opposed to it

[Dunnstral]

Looks like your scum roel fishing to me.

Looks to me like you just wanted the role claim so you could narrow down the town pr.

I think that scum rarely do this.

[Dunnstral]

But I just have this solid feeling it's a scum fakeclaiming, and they are now living on borrowed time.
Dunno. I wasn't particularly scumreading them before, but I joined the wagon anyway.
And anything and everything they said afterwards only sold scum!Hoopla to me more.

So all of this other stuff sort of feels like filler to me right now.

That's why I suggested voting somebody who was neutral in respect to Hoopla's alignment, like popopopo, where it didn't really matter what Hoopla was

You know, this is giving a vibe of a divide between popopopo+Hoopla / geraintm.
Right?

I'm seeing that too, yes

[Dunnstral]

Yo ho ho. I notice you've cut down on the emojis, Una. Might that be a subconscious aversion because of what I was saying? €;

Do you want to take popopopo to L-1? (Lim-1)

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Popo





L-1

see here you again, jumpign on the next goign wagon

Whats the reason you scum read pops.

I was waiting for somebody to push him on this. I think you're scummy for this. Their vote is consistent with their stated reads and makes sense.

[Dunnstral]

I believe that Replacement for Sujimichi looks good upon a popopo red flip, and I do want to bump-off popopopo, so why not lynch popopopopo before Replacement for Sujimichi? I believe at this point if popopopopopo flips red we have a lot of information to work off of, anyway. And if he flips green? Well, it's not like Replacement for Sujimichi or Geraintm give more information than popopopopopo anyway, right?

[Dunnstral]

I'm constantly using "they", because I believe it's a rather "PC" way to address anyone and everyone.

This is my opinion as well. Or sometimes I just refer to people as 'they' anyway, no offense is meant

[Dunnstral]

I like their post 352, but nothing else.

So then there's no reason for you to be soft defending him

[Dunnstral]

I was joking when I said I would hammer hoopla if she claimed VT. I also wanted her to overthink her claim if she's scum.

I forgot you had said that

[Dunnstral]

If they're scum, yeah

If they're actually a pr then they've had doubt thrown on them

[Dunnstral]

Klick and popopopopopopo have requested replacement.

I recommend we.... WHAM, you know? Put him out of his misery, who cares for a claim, right?

@Klick 941 which was directed at not-you and is clearly satire is what pushes you to leave and say I'm "an incredibly unpleasant person", really? Hoping you apologize for essentially throwing a tantrum in post-game. I've been pushing players I don't like for game-related reasons.

[Dunnstral]

Actually, popopopopo is being replaced for inactivity; his prod expired.

[Dunnstral]

In which case, I'm fine with waiting for a replacement. I thought he just left after seeing himself at L-1 (lim-1)

[Dunnstral]

(I'm pretty sure Klick replacing out makes them town, and I was pretty sure they were town anyway.)

[Dunnstral]

I'll sheep Klick's townread on notscience

[Dunnstral]

I shouldn't have responded I guess, they started something personal. I don't really care to argue about this in thread right now

[Dunnstral]

Let's not act like dropping "You are an incredibly unpleasant person Dunnstral" out of nowhere and then replacing out is peachy though - that's toxic

[Dunnstral]

So you agree with the popopopopopopo wagon?

[Dunnstral]

I don't particularly feel that Emperor flippynips is scum, and I don't agree with thinking Klick gets mad there as a result of being scum with flippy

[Dunnstral]

for the record, "you should grow a thicker skin" is awful

I think context is important. Obviously it wouldn't be ok to say to somebody who is actually going through something, you know. The way I interpreted it, Klick was just whining about me being passive aggressive

to someone else

. So that's why I said what I said. Klick was acting offended over someone else's behalf and it was a tone deaf response to what was satire based on the play instead of the player.

I just feel the need to defend myself now.

[Dunnstral]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11908970

[Dunnstral]

i don't think there's any role popo could claim that i'd unequivocally believe.

Really? Not even like a normal investigative role?

[Dunnstral]

the only role i'd believe is a mason/IC/FN type role.

Even though you're already claiming fn?

[Dunnstral]

You went from trying to get a counter wagon going to lynching without a claim because there's nothing he could claim to change your mind

[Dunnstral]

If this flips red, who do you suspect more?

[Dunnstral]

una/sujimichi

Disagree with these

[Dunnstral]

Porkens replaces popopopopopopo

Awkward

[Dunnstral]

who's your pick if popo flips scum?

I'd take a look at Emperor flippyNips, Galron

[Dunnstral]

Probably moreso Galron

[Dunnstral]

I died here so long ago that I don't really know what happened

Tracker living to 5 people alive and town still mislimming looks very unlucky

[Dunnstral]

I mean, you guys are only saying it was the right play because they were scum. If they were a town even night friendly neighbor would it still have been the right play to eliminate them?

I stand by eliminating someone who was neutral to Hoopla - their alignment didn't really relate to Hoopla's

[Dunnstral]

I also buy into that, it's especially apparent when mafia don't have a choice in who they kill (cop outs with an inno on day 2, they have to kill the cop, then the inno, then probably another role that cleared themself)