Mini Normal 2153: Post-game

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Post Post #4 (isolation #0) » Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:05 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Dang I'm fast. How does he do it?
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Post Post #7 (isolation #1) » Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:25 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 1, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:14 real life days (168 hours)
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Post Post #22 (isolation #2) » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:24 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

^Why?
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Post Post #50 (isolation #3) » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:15 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

You guys know 'vote' isn't the word that is being restricted
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Post Post #51 (isolation #4) » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:17 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

VOTE: bob3141

Scummy posts
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Post Post #66 (isolation #5) » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:46 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 63, Klick wrote:And that's the 2nd post after that one.
Good point, want to vote him?
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Post Post #171 (isolation #6) » Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:20 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 91, Isis wrote:popsofctown is my alt.
Spoiler:
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Post Post #177 (isolation #7) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:48 am

Post by Dunnstral »

Me on page 8:

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Me on page 80:

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Post Post #202 (isolation #8) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:44 am

Post by Dunnstral »

What do you expect from bob?
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Post Post #205 (isolation #9) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:54 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 203, geraintm wrote:
In post 202, Dunnstral wrote:What do you expect from bob?
I've been in a game where he was active enough day 1 as town to step in and try and stop a wagon that was about to lynch smeone they thought shouldn't be, and was high profile enough that they then got themselves lynched.

this game....not like that at all. very passive
Get this man some sheep for his wagon, asap
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Post Post #311 (isolation #10) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:16 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 295, Hoopla wrote:
In post 289, UnaBombaH wrote:And mind you, everyone, I'm not a HUGE fan of "townblocs" in general, and I would be scolding Hoopla for this one as well (like I did last game :igmeou: ), but I think this is just how they play as town and they need it either for solving or entertainment purposes. :lol:
Me being a part of this bloc of Hoopla this time around is neither here nor there.

I WILL be calling out Hoopla if I smell scum on that bloc, but so far they have at least been more reserved with how they include people in.
And one good example of them doing better than what I was afraid of - notscience not being included in their latest townreads just because they have a "solid townread" on Hoopla.
I'm not saying they've outright become a scumread for me, but they are definitely teetering on the edge.. :igmeou:
^una steadfastly resisting the town bloc invitation.

okay
okay
, we get it. you're town. there's no need to convince us further with this coy display.

just relax and accept the rightful privilege afforded to the town bloc elite.
Or he's scum and doesn't want to seem overeager, which yields a similar reaction. You pointing this out made me a bit suspicious of him.

Looking over t heir iso more closely, doesn't it seem like he''s maneuvering in a way where he sets himself up to suspect a few people, or pivot to certain players, while calling others town, it feels manipulative to me.

Like in , and [post]287[/v] for his suspects

VOTE: UnaBombaH
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Post Post #316 (isolation #11) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:21 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 313, Bellaphant wrote:...^^ is a very weird jump off of a weak wagon onto a moon logic pov.

I can't work out what I think about it, but it's making me head tilt
Bad reaction
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Post Post #318 (isolation #12) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:48 am

Post by Dunnstral »

let's get her

VOTE: Bellaphant
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Post Post #392 (isolation #13) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:50 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Hoopla and Isis are scummy
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Post Post #414 (isolation #14) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:17 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

As soon as I started calling certain people scum there was a perceptible shift in the way people started treating me
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Post Post #415 (isolation #15) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:20 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 407, Klick wrote:People I'd be interested in lynching today is starting to look something like this:

bob3141
Sujimichi●
Bellaphant
Emperor flippyNips
Hoopla
popopopopopopo

With like meh maybes on Galron and Dunn.
You shouldn't be ok with my lynch
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Post Post #417 (isolation #16) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:45 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

You and UnaB and it looks bad for you and neutral for UnaB

There's a notable lack of responding to things from Isis where I expect one

Hoopla's push on me is bad
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Post Post #420 (isolation #17) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:53 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Because you threw shade at me twice
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Post Post #423 (isolation #18) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:01 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

That is unclear, but this is when it started:
In post 346, notscience wrote:Maybe dunn in the red but nothing re hoops.
In post 395, notscience wrote:UNVOTE:

I don’t think. I wanna be on a dunn lead wagon
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Post Post #425 (isolation #19) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:03 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

346 was in response to una
395 is in response to hoopla and isis
In post 424, notscience wrote:
In post 414, Dunnstral wrote:As soon as I started calling certain people scum there was a perceptible shift in the way people started treating me
So its not clear but clear enough to mention?

Or you got caught in a lie and are trying to rectify it.
clear enough to mention after you've asked me 4 or so questions, sure
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Post Post #450 (isolation #20) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:29 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 436, Replacement for Sujimichi wrote:or someone needing twice as many votes to be lynched.
14?
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Post Post #461 (isolation #21) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:24 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Bellaphant moving me to a scumlean there means she is scum.
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Post Post #462 (isolation #22) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:26 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

It's pretty much exactly what I expected for her to do if she was scum. Let's kill her.
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Post Post #464 (isolation #23) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:31 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Bad interactions between Bellaphant and Notscience as well
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Post Post #482 (isolation #24) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:05 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 470, Bellaphant wrote:I remember playing with dun years back when I (and he) were fairly new and being impressed, so I guess I'm also reading the slot through 'this isn't what I expect'.

Klick is a cuddle sober, tbf. He's generally happy and giggly drunk, but I'm wondering if the wine got him out of his head enough to post more naturally.
We played in 3 games together 3 years back and I was anti-town in all of them
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Post Post #526 (isolation #25) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:46 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Yes I am, and I pointed to why
In post 524, UnaBombaH wrote:I thought they were trying to stir the pot and scavenge some reads from that,
I kind of was with Isis/Hoopla. I think some of the things Hoopla has been pushing is questionable
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Post Post #561 (isolation #26) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:27 am

Post by Dunnstral »

VOTE: Hoopla

B-1 (1 vote away from being Bumped-off)
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Post Post #569 (isolation #27) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:46 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 564, notscience wrote:UNVOTE:

No
In post 565, notscience wrote:Why did that wagon go from 0 to l-1 in 2 pages and 12 hours
In post 566, notscience wrote:
In post 545, Bellaphant wrote:Hoops calling that wagon of nully/scummy people town was like...the real issue here..plus the random Pockety post towards me.
I do agree with this post I don’t know if I commented it already
In post 567, notscience wrote:I still agree spiritually just the speed of the wagon is giving me the heebie jeebies
Bad reaction to be quite honest
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Post Post #571 (isolation #28) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:51 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 570, Klick wrote:Dunn putting it at L-1 is sketchy but not inherently bad.
Why do you keep taking potshots at me?
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Post Post #573 (isolation #29) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:35 am

Post by Dunnstral »

This isn't last game, you guys should get over it
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Post Post #632 (isolation #30) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:01 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 575, Isis wrote:Dunnstral did you win a scumgame or something
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=83142
In post 577, Klick wrote:
In post 571, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 570, Klick wrote:Dunn putting it at L-1 is sketchy but not inherently bad.
Why do you keep taking potshots at me?
[citation needed]
Here are my sources:
In post 81, Klick wrote:I hadn't quite realized that Bob had only posted the 'second' lol. That does make Dunn's vote pretty weird.

VOTE: Bellaphant
In post 185, Klick wrote:Your favorite show is on downstairs Bella :P

I dunno, there's not much to work with. Dunn could stand to try a lot harder, because if everyone had his approach to the early-game then we'd never reach Page 80. I'm surprised you're engaging as much as you are, because you usually say exactly what Dunn's saying right now about the early game. What's different about this game?
In post 407, Klick wrote:People I'd be interested in lynching today is starting to look something like this:

bob3141
Sujimichi●
Bellaphant
Emperor flippyNips
Hoopla
popopopopopopo

With like meh maybes on Galron and Dunn.
In post 570, Klick wrote:Don't relieve pressure now, Hoopla hasn't even seen what we've done with the place :P
I remember there being a few fast wagons last game? I guess the difference is that they weren't on Hoopla.

I think the core of this wagon has been town-driven. Isis feels town, Bella's approach to it has been good, you and Una are town. Dunn putting it at L-1 is sketchy but not inherently bad.
This is amidst you calling me town sporadically so it's pretty weird
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Post Post #633 (isolation #31) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:03 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 631, Isis wrote: A scummier rear end to the wagon means the scumteam doesn't think you're seriously likely to get exiled...
As a reminder I'm town and it doesn't matter how "scummy" I am
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Post Post #647 (isolation #32) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:11 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 638, Isis wrote:
In post 633, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 631, Isis wrote: A scummier rear end to the wagon means the scumteam doesn't think you're seriously likely to get exiled...
As a reminder I'm town and it doesn't matter how "scummy" I am
I've said I townread you, so why did you assume you were the part of the rear end of the wagon I was indicating? I've been liking you but that has a sound like "out, damned spot" to it
Because I was the last vote?
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Post Post #648 (isolation #33) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:16 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 637, Hoopla wrote:to pick up from my last post, i'm aware that i am an opaque player that is largely unreadable early in games. over time, i have since come to accept that fact about myself and lean into it. i do as i please, and hope the town can see the game is going in the right direction. that usually quells paranoia about my play for a while, but i acknowledge in games where we are frequently mis-executing or things are going off the rails i should definitely be a suspect. this puts pressure on me to be correct early in games, or to do enough d1/d2 to scare scum into NK'ing me.

on to some analysis:

fans of my work may have seen in recent times i have been honing my system of "Holistic Abstracts and Heuristic Analytics" (or H.A.H.A for short). this is a special blend of large-scale data analysis (mostly of d1 play, as this is the cleanest data to work with) and with a healthy sprinkling of intuitive magic to guide it all. i am still weighting how valuable each metric is (this is where intuition plays a role), but here are a couple of observations i've noted that are currently influencing my reads;

a useful metric with enough statistical significance i've seen is that of early game wagons. for this data set, i've collected the alignment of every player that has received a wagon of four players within the first 150 posts of games. these numbers were chosen as they symbolically represent the tipping point of a wagon to "something serious", and by ~150 posts or so, we should be out of the RVS stage of the game. these are fluid concepts that vary from game to game (which is why i use the largest sample size i can), but it's a useful data-backed illumination of a tell i often see early in games.

over the last 5 years of 3:10 mini normals:

town
/
scum
ratio of players receiving four votes before 150 game-posts:
86.3%
/
13.7%
.


scum make up ~23% of the town's population D1, so this is a very significant observation and why i think bob is likely town. to explain why this is the case, i hypothesise that the earlier the game is, the more any vote can be justified. and when any vote can be justified, townies will more or less randomly vote/wagon any player, whereas there are 3 scum-votes that are more likely to land on town by virtue of ignoring teammates more often than random. scum are much willing to place the third or fourth vote on a town player for the sake of wagoning than on a partner because any vote can be justified - it's not damning to ignore a teammate's early wagon when it is currently "random". this discrepancy expresses itself in the numbers. townies are much more likely to be the target of an early wagon.

this is also why i pivoted to a dunnstral vote in . he was the fourth voter on the wagon citing "scummy posts", when bob had posted just once. that was the vote that made me think that this wagon had landed on town, and this belief grew throughout the game as more players jumped on bob.

~~

folks who played with me in mini 2146 would also remember i revealed some large scale D1 lurking data. i'm relying on this less this game now that is has been exposed, as i suspect players like klick, una and notscience would act in a deliberate way to subvert this, and definitely inform scumbuddies to stay active in any of them are indeed scum. so, i am not considering lurking data in any real way, but a useful corollary i didn't reveal last game is voting frequency to post-count frequency. town vote-hop on d1 at much higher rates than scum, and though i am still in the process of completing this data-set, it appears significant.

this was an influential reason in why i powered and sat on the geraintm wagon as much as i did. he was a classic candidate of scum finding a vote acceptable enough to be unchallenged, then sitting on it without much reevaluation. it takes effort to be constantly reevaluating the gamestate as scum and to find convincing reasons for your opinions to change. this is why we see scum sit on hivemind-approved votes longer than town, as switching votes incurs the risk of receiving additional attention/critique of your play.

players like klick and notscience seem vote-hoppy-happy anyhow, so i don't extend the tell to capable, aware players like them, but i suspect this tell is meaningful for a player like geraintm and why i still suspect him.

we have had a lot of useful wagons so far; one on galron that i haven't spoken about yet comes to mind. realistically, i'd prefer to speak about the d1 wagons as a whole in conjunction with alignment flips (if i make it that far), and will next switch to some behavioural things and PoE work i have been doing behind the scenes.

i will also say i am flustered and annoyed that i am being forced into collating all my views so early in the game. i prefer to do that after churning up the game-thread for information, but it appears this is the way the dice have fallen this game, and i will give the town as much as i can to work with, come what may.
tl;dr; you're scumreading me because of 'statistics' rather than my one play, and you never reevaluated
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Post Post #649 (isolation #34) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:19 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Isis, would you support a wagon on popopopo?
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Post Post #652 (isolation #35) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:52 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

He is caught up
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Post Post #654 (isolation #36) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:53 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Well I guess not, they jump between the past and the present like some kind of ghetto time traveler
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Post Post #659 (isolation #37) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:19 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 653, Hoopla wrote:to any concerned townies,

this is another thing i rarely mention about my play, but feel it may shed light on my actions.

being a dominant force in a game is a blessing and a curse. i try to use my influence as town in the most productive and +EV way as i can. it is hard to for town to see the fruits of my labour this early, but another useful byproduct that comes of it, is it forces literally every player to take a stance on me, or interact with me in some way. given i only know my own alignment as town on d1, i deduce everyone's alignment in relation to my own.

without getting to MD-theoretical, deliberate obfuscation and radically shifting the gamestate's flow is something i encourage to force scum to continually have to adjust, and quite often it shakes out some obvtowns in the process. if i am going to be unreadable anyhow, i may as well selfishly discombobulate the gamestate to better improve my reads. in my eyes, there is nothing to be lost here, and only gains information-wise.

~~

intuitively, i am highly suspicious of klick for the reason Sujimichi documented in ;
In post 599, Replacement for Sujimichi wrote:
In post 123, Klick wrote:I don't think I'm going to be able to accurately read Hoopla until like Day 3 at best. Until then, Hoopla is a consistently good influence on the gamestate and probably won't be getting executed today.
The current events are interesting given Klick's opinion here.
from my perspective, it is clear there was some opportunism in the early-mid part of my wagon. given klick appears to understand the purpose of my play, his vote is highly suspicious. occam's razor: is it more likely he actually thinks i am scum here, or is he seizing the moment when whispers of hoopla suspicion started floating about? i think the latter. and as a bonus moment of suspicion; calling for bellaphant to join the wagon in . isn't she your suspect?

i think klick is manipulating bellaphant turn-of-heart on his alignment to power this wagon, whereas if he is actually town, he would be wary of forming a coalition with a suspect.

i still townread bellaphant on tone, and partially find her town in relation to klick's scumminess. i think the interplay between one another has been too nuanced for them to be both scum together, so i am still townreading her and accept her vote, partially sad, yet also optimistic that she can see the light.

notscience's vote also seemed opportunistic and of all the players voting me, i'd like him to explain his vote. as recently as notscience ruled me as town;
In post 518, notscience wrote:Gera, una (but I’m a little annoyed I’m going to have to argue against his scumread me all game again), klick, you (?), flippy
then he jumps on my wagon in , abandoning the dunnstral wagon (who he actually suspects!) to power mine. explain yourself notscience.

una is another vote i can kinda see as being OK - it is at least consistent with how his view on me has evolved throughout the game, and i am still townreading him. i mean, there has to be at least a couple of confused townies voting me; he is probably one of them.

the only two votes i haven't talked about has been the head of the wagon and the caboose; isis and dunnstral. neither ping me overtly one way or another. i see motivations either way.

isis has displayed a healthy/natural amount of paranoia for my slot that i usually come to expect from town players who have dealt with me in the past. i oftentimes find scum will just placate me or attack me in an over-the-top way without any subtlety (for those who read or were in mini 2146 see how pranadevil-scum treated me in that game). my intuition says isis is town based on that, though i think she is one the few personalities with enough verve to take me on as scum head-to-head d1.

as for dunnstral, i am still learning more about him and can go either way on his L-1 vote. its brazen, but it is also in keeping earlier suspicion he expressed on my slot. its brazenness i'd usually consider slightly-town, but in this case see it as more in keeping with character than anything else.

~~

shockingly, i am most suspect of klick's/notscience's votes of me. i really hope the town isn't up against one or both of them as scum as we may be in trouble (especially if i am executed and not around to put them in place).

my dunnstral-vote was an attempt to find common ground with notscience and find out more information about dunnstral's slot, but given i actually have some genuine suspicions now, it's time to move on;

UNVOTE:
VOTE: klick

if i have time today, i'll cover some townreads and some PoE stuff. but felt it was more important to talk about my wagon first.
So you finally explained why you were voting me. You know I knew bob's post history when I said 'scummy posts', I didn't just throw that out there and never check their posts.

Can you stop acting like you're the big kid on the block and this dominant force? That only applies within your pre-arrenged group that all seemed to join this game together

Disagree on the reasoning for scumreading Klick. It's day 1, scum are more likely to adhere to a strict 'I think this person is mafia, so I won't vote with them' policy than town are. To an extent scum bus/you can be wrong on certain reads and that's not a reason to not vote certain people on day 1

Notscience shows this negative tell where right after I join the wagon is icky and they have to jump off it
I think they've had a lot of bad reactions to events this game in fact, so I'm fine with seeing them becoming not alive
VOTE: notscience

I'm lightly scumreading popopopo right now; not a lot to go on, and it's not related to any of my other reads. They kind of suck this game.
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Post Post #661 (isolation #38) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:21 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

nice and towny to taunt me like that
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Post Post #664 (isolation #39) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:33 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

VOTE: popopopopopopo
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Post Post #667 (isolation #40) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:41 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 665, notscience wrote:What changed your mind?
popopo is much more likely to be wagoned in my mind, and I want in on it
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Post Post #669 (isolation #41) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:53 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

oddly specific
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Post Post #672 (isolation #42) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:36 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 671, Isis wrote:notscience doesn't seem to know who the scumteam is.
He should probably check his role pm again then
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Post Post #674 (isolation #43) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:44 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Bad wagon
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Post Post #681 (isolation #44) » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:55 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 192, Galron wrote:
In post 151, UnaBombaH wrote:I had to go and check why I think Dunn is a very good townplayer.
Good as scum as well. Be wary.
In post 272, Galron wrote:
In post 261, Hoopla wrote:@galron

interesting. i saw your town reads post as i was rereading the thread and constructing mine. are you a D1 townhunter? please describe your process.

also, why is flippy town?
No process. They just look like the corner pieces rn.

Flippy's townie on tone. And I like that he took a stance on Dunn.
When are
you
going to take a stance on Dunn?
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Post Post #686 (isolation #45) » Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:56 am

Post by Dunnstral »

Funny how I'm getting flak for being the 3/4th voter but I'm the only one getting flak for that

Like, you're pointing to two different positions on the wagon but I'm getting flak for both of them and nobody else is
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Post Post #689 (isolation #46) » Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:25 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 688, notscience wrote:all he’s done is complain that people are scumreading him
That's not a fair analysis of my play
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Post Post #690 (isolation #47) » Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:27 am

Post by Dunnstral »

VOTE: notscience

bad faith argument
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Post Post #691 (isolation #48) » Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:29 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 531, Isis wrote:VOTE: Hoopla

Hoopla is who I'd most like to exile.
The way she describes her mens rea with respect having more doubts based on a previous town roll seems like the way mafia would describe the information rather than how town would, even though it's the same information. It's a little bit hard to explain and an intuition thing but it's come up more than one time. I wouldn't be too prideful to deadsheep her if wrong but she's very much front of the pack for me.
In post 639, Isis wrote:These all sounds like delightful knickknacks I will be happy to deadsheep but can't really view as town-indicative in their own right from Hoopla.
In post 671, Isis wrote:I'm caught up.

Hoopla is still acting scummy and I don't want to vote townier people just to be trendy.

I strongly agree with her townread on bob though and found the bob burst town indicative, especially calibrated for bob.

notscience is such a horrible wagon I'm a little nauseated.

notscience doesn't seem to know who the scumteam is.
In post 677, Isis wrote:I resent being townread by Hoopla
This read seems particularly lame from Isis
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Post Post #728 (isolation #49) » Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:18 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 711, Bellaphant wrote:The stuff about dun here is demonstrably false?
Demonstrate it.
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Post Post #737 (isolation #50) » Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:04 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Galron's posting has gotten a lot better from when he was still talking about ice cream and not doing anything; I like post 735
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Post Post #741 (isolation #51) » Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:44 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 711, Bellaphant wrote:Apart from the Bob 1 post weirdness (which like...could actually be scum distancing) he's voted me, which got up to a wagon of...3, and hoops, which got to e-2. How are these brave pushes?
Well, you're wrong or misrepresenting what has happened. Here are the votes I've made:

Spoiler:
In post 51, Dunnstral wrote:VOTE: bob3141

Scummy posts
In post 311, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 295, Hoopla wrote:
In post 289, UnaBombaH wrote:And mind you, everyone, I'm not a HUGE fan of "townblocs" in general, and I would be scolding Hoopla for this one as well (like I did last game :igmeou: ), but I think this is just how they play as town and they need it either for solving or entertainment purposes. :lol:
Me being a part of this bloc of Hoopla this time around is neither here nor there.

I WILL be calling out Hoopla if I smell scum on that bloc, but so far they have at least been more reserved with how they include people in.
And one good example of them doing better than what I was afraid of - notscience not being included in their latest townreads just because they have a "solid townread" on Hoopla.
I'm not saying they've outright become a scumread for me, but they are definitely teetering on the edge.. :igmeou:
^una steadfastly resisting the town bloc invitation.

okay
okay
, we get it. you're town. there's no need to convince us further with this coy display.

just relax and accept the rightful privilege afforded to the town bloc elite.
Or he's scum and doesn't want to seem overeager, which yields a similar reaction. You pointing this out made me a bit suspicious of him.

Looking over t heir iso more closely, doesn't it seem like he''s maneuvering in a way where he sets himself up to suspect a few people, or pivot to certain players, while calling others town, it feels manipulative to me.

Like in , and
In post 659, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 653, Hoopla wrote:;
. isn't she your suspect?

i think klick is manipulating bellaphant turn-of-heart on his alignment to power this wagon, whereas if he is actually town, he would be wary of forming a coalition with a suspect.

i still townread bellaphant on tone, and partially find her town in relation to klick's scumminess. i think the interplay between one another has been too nuanced for them to be both scum together, so i am still townreading her and accept her vote, partially sad, yet also optimistic that she can see the light.

notscience's vote also seemed opportunistic and of all the players voting me, i'd like him to explain his vote. as recently as notscience ruled me as town;
, abandoning the dunnstral wagon (who he actually suspects!) to power mine. explain yourself notscience.

una is another vote i can kinda see as being OK - it is at least consistent with how his view on me has evolved throughout the game, and i am still townreading him. i mean, there has to be at least a couple of confused townies voting me; he is probably one of them.

the only two votes i haven't talked about has been the head of the wagon and the caboose; isis and dunnstral. neither ping me overtly one way or another. i see motivations either way.

isis has displayed a healthy/natural amount of paranoia for my slot that i usually come to expect from town players who have dealt with me in the past. i oftentimes find scum will just placate me or attack me in an over-the-top way without any subtlety (for those who read or were in mini 2146 see how pranadevil-scum treated me in that game). my intuition says isis is town based on that, though i think she is one the few personalities with enough verve to take me on as scum head-to-head d1.

as for dunnstral, i am still learning more about him and can go either way on his L-1 vote. its brazen, but it is also in keeping earlier suspicion he expressed on my slot. its brazenness i'd usually consider slightly-town, but in this case see it as more in keeping with character than anything else.

~~

shockingly, i am most suspect of klick's/notscience's votes of me. i really hope the town isn't up against one or both of them as scum as we may be in trouble (especially if i am executed and not around to put them in place).

my dunnstral-vote was an attempt to find common ground with notscience and find out more information about dunnstral's slot, but given i actually have some genuine suspicions now, it's time to move on;

UNVOTE:
VOTE: klick

if i have time today, i'll cover some townreads and some PoE stuff. but felt it was more important to talk about my wagon first.
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Post Post #742 (isolation #52) » Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:45 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

And Hoopla got to E-1
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Post Post #748 (isolation #53) » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:09 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 746, Isis wrote:Dunnstral "bus" Hoopla so I can clear you pls
Spoiler:
Image
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Post Post #749 (isolation #54) » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:11 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 747, Bellaphant wrote:Dun, I know? I corrected myself in the next post. Are you making a point or just being pointlessly negative? Coz I can engage with a point....
You said it was demonstrably false; it's not
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Post Post #751 (isolation #55) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:06 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 750, Bellaphant wrote:Are you arguing that you have?
Yes. And you're saying it's demonstratable otherwise, but you won't be able to do so.
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Post Post #753 (isolation #56) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:52 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 752, Bellaphant wrote:Do you think my view on your votes is scummy? Why?
Yes, because it's the kind of attack on a townread that I expect from scum, and I don't think you have good justification to be doing so
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Post Post #780 (isolation #57) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:07 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 779, Galron wrote:Why is everyone voting for Hoopla if she isn't scummy?
I have a theory
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Post Post #797 (isolation #58) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:20 am

Post by Dunnstral »

What if I just, WHAM, hammered Hoopla?
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Post Post #805 (isolation #59) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:03 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

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Post Post #808 (isolation #60) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:26 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

So you scumread all the lurkers and townread all your friends, with Hoopla being an anomaly
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Post Post #816 (isolation #61) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:56 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 815, Isis wrote:Yes apparently Dunnstral is not better than to lolhammer unclaimeds :(
Don't worry, I was scum in all of those games
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Post Post #818 (isolation #62) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:58 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 817, Hoopla wrote:it has been my real life birthday recently,
we know, it shows the cake on your profile
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Post Post #819 (isolation #63) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:59 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 810, Klick wrote:bob3141
notscience

geraintm

UnaBombaH
Replacement for Sujimichi
Klick

Bellaphant

Emperor flippyNips
Galron
Hoopla

popopopopopopo
Isis

Dunnstral


Green = friends
Black = neutral
Red = randomly passive-agressive
Tell me if I'm wrong
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Post Post #825 (isolation #64) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:13 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 820, Isis wrote:I was on my phone so I couldn't investigate thoroughly.

I feel trolled.

VOTE: Hoopla
Why are you scumreading Hoopla, again?
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Post Post #830 (isolation #65) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:20 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 821, Isis wrote:
In post 818, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 817, Hoopla wrote:it has been my real life birthday recently,
we know, it shows the cake on your profile
Hoopla's account, uniquely across site, is rigged to always show it as both her scumday and birthday
Also I knew this, it was what is known as a joke
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Post Post #834 (isolation #66) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:31 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

I'm used to seeing Isis play cool and collected as scum, so seeing her flail around as much as I do is a fresh experience
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Post Post #839 (isolation #67) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:17 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

I don't get it
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Post Post #842 (isolation #68) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:26 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 840, UnaBombaH wrote:I do not understand that Isis unvote -> revote.
I thought I got the unvote until they revoted with...words.
They were scared I'd.... WHAM
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Post Post #848 (isolation #69) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:44 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

So let's vote someone who is neutral to Hoopla's alignment

I'll start us off

VOTE: popopopopo
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Post Post #852 (isolation #70) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:46 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Must be a big top shelf to explain your play this game. Maybe lay off the drink?

I'm not really a pokemon guy, I lost track when they went past like 500. That green small time travel character is pretty neat
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Post Post #853 (isolation #71) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:47 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Hoopla's claim makes me suspect them more, not less
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Post Post #854 (isolation #72) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:48 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

And you know he's gonna claim roleblocked on day 3
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Post Post #857 (isolation #73) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:49 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Yeah, Celebi
In post 855, Isis wrote: I have not drunk posted in this mafia game aside from the past 10-15 minutes
I'm just messing with you
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Post Post #859 (isolation #74) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:52 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

I'd prefer if I weren't bump-offed
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Post Post #864 (isolation #75) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:56 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 860, Isis wrote:"am I playing like I did last time I was scum????"
No, but I always townread you when you're scum
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Post Post #865 (isolation #76) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:57 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Which means you're probably town, because your posts feel like you've been drunk all game compared to what I'm used to
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Post Post #869 (isolation #77) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:02 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

^what
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Post Post #873 (isolation #78) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:05 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Might want to double check the key
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Post Post #874 (isolation #79) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:06 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Wait... how is that useful for day 2? You know what that is
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Post Post #876 (isolation #80) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:09 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

I wasn't a great skeptic, probably because you played those games completely differently
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Post Post #877 (isolation #81) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:09 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

*to this game
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Post Post #880 (isolation #82) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:12 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

I'm not really scumreading you this game
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Post Post #882 (isolation #83) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:13 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

You Isis
In post 649, Dunnstral wrote:Isis, would you support a wagon on popopopo?
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Post Post #884 (isolation #84) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:17 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

I do think your play has felt weird, and your push on Hoopla was weird
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Post Post #885 (isolation #85) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:20 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 883, Isis wrote:you posted a meme of me as a sweaty mafia thoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!
That droplet was alcohol
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Post Post #889 (isolation #86) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:24 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

My avatar?
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Post Post #890 (isolation #87) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:29 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Let's blow this game WIDE open

vote: popopopopo
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Post Post #892 (isolation #88) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:42 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Now the rest hop on
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Post Post #909 (isolation #89) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:00 am

Post by Dunnstral »

Say my name and I will appear
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Post Post #921 (isolation #90) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:50 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 918, Hoopla wrote:i feel klick would be a challenging project for the town to embark on d1.

more realistic; geraintm

a suitable rival for popo.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: geraintm
Why does popo need a rival?
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Post Post #923 (isolation #91) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:52 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 366, Emperor flippyNips wrote:
In post 290, UnaBombaH wrote:
In post 288, Hoopla wrote:@una

is notscience scum? i don't want to believe it. i think it would break my heart.
Dunno.
I'm more concerned about flippy this game tbh.


Yeah me too, his lurking is totes scum fuck agenda
In post 619, Emperor flippyNips wrote:I’ll probably read the last 10 pages soon, I’m gonna be a little on the busy side today
In post 915, Emperor flippyNips wrote:Hi loves, content coming soon







...Unless the game has been boring
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Post Post #929 (isolation #92) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:42 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Who do you think we should wagon?
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Post Post #930 (isolation #93) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:44 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

I like this wagon, just the right amount of resistance from notscience who is trying to appear ambivalent to it. If you're into Hoopla scum theories, he's trying to start competing wagons as well
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Post Post #933 (isolation #94) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:45 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 931, Galron wrote:RFS I still think is under the radar.
I would not vote RFS if popo was mafia
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Post Post #940 (isolation #95) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:16 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Now would be a great time to place a relevant vote. Or we can eliminate you later down the line after this flips scum, that's cool too.
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Post Post #941 (isolation #96) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:02 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

"It's done" says Emperor flippyNips, he's just crafted his masterpiece of a post. He looks it over once more in satisfaction, there's something beautiful about the simplicity of it all. "I'll vote when I'm ready..." he mutters to himself, but there's nobody around to hear him. He turns to hit computer, it's served him well, but for now its no longer useful to his endeavors. He shuts it off, he doesn't like waiting so he holds down the power button, after a few seconds it shuts down immediately. He doesn't like to waste time on unnecessary things, but most of all he doesn't want to be asked 'are you sure?' No, he wasn't in the mood to make any decisions. He sets an alarm on his phone - 44 hours from now, he'll have to make another post. One or two prods is no big deal, but he doesn't like to rack up too many of them.
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Post Post #945 (isolation #97) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:09 am

Post by Dunnstral »

Well I'm sorry you feel that way. I recommend growing thicker skin, you'll find a lot worse than a guy being passive-aggressive on this site.
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Post Post #946 (isolation #98) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:17 am

Post by Dunnstral »

Let it be known that I wasn't the one who has resorted to making personal attacks, though.
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Post Post #947 (isolation #99) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:21 am

Post by Dunnstral »

I'm talking to Klick, of course, not Isis. I too want to flip popo, especially since it feels like everyone except for Una who has posted recently, who hasn't been on the wagon, has been strangely opposed to it
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Post Post #952 (isolation #100) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:49 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 951, bob3141 wrote:Looks like your scum roel fishing to me.
In post 951, bob3141 wrote:Looks to me like you just wanted the role claim so you could narrow down the town pr.
I think that scum rarely do this.
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Post Post #957 (isolation #101) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:59 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 953, UnaBombaH wrote:But I just have this solid feeling it's a scum fakeclaiming, and they are now living on borrowed time.
Dunno. I wasn't particularly scumreading them before, but I joined the wagon anyway.
And anything and everything they said afterwards only sold scum!Hoopla to me more.

So all of this other stuff sort of feels like filler to me right now.
That's why I suggested voting somebody who was neutral in respect to Hoopla's alignment, like popopopo, where it didn't really matter what Hoopla was
UnaBombaH wrote:You know, this is giving a vibe of a divide between popopopo+Hoopla / geraintm.
Right?
I'm seeing that too, yes
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Post Post #960 (isolation #102) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:01 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 955, Replacement for Sujimichi wrote:Yo ho ho. I notice you've cut down on the emojis, Una. Might that be a subconscious aversion because of what I was saying? €;
Do you want to take popopopo to L-1? (Lim-1)
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Post Post #974 (isolation #103) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:44 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 971, bob3141 wrote:
In post 966, Replacement for Sujimichi wrote:VOTE: Popo





L-1

see here you again, jumpign on the next goign wagon

Whats the reason you scum read pops.
I was waiting for somebody to push him on this. I think you're scummy for this. Their vote is consistent with their stated reads and makes sense.
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Post Post #975 (isolation #104) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:47 am

Post by Dunnstral »

I believe that Replacement for Sujimichi looks good upon a popopo red flip, and I do want to bump-off popopopo, so why not lynch popopopopo before Replacement for Sujimichi? I believe at this point if popopopopopo flips red we have a lot of information to work off of, anyway. And if he flips green? Well, it's not like Replacement for Sujimichi or Geraintm give more information than popopopopopo anyway, right?
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Post Post #976 (isolation #105) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:49 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 973, UnaBombaH wrote:I'm constantly using "they", because I believe it's a rather "PC" way to address anyone and everyone.
This is my opinion as well. Or sometimes I just refer to people as 'they' anyway, no offense is meant
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Post Post #978 (isolation #106) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:51 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 969, geraintm wrote:I like their post 352, but nothing else.
So then there's no reason for you to be soft defending him
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Post Post #979 (isolation #107) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:51 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 977, Replacement for Sujimichi wrote:I was joking when I said I would hammer hoopla if she claimed VT. I also wanted her to overthink her claim if she's scum.
I forgot you had said that
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Post Post #981 (isolation #108) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:58 am

Post by Dunnstral »

If they're scum, yeah

If they're actually a pr then they've had doubt thrown on them
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Post Post #983 (isolation #109) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:28 am

Post by Dunnstral »

Klick and popopopopopopo have requested replacement.

I recommend we.... WHAM, you know? Put him out of his misery, who cares for a claim, right?

@Klick which was directed at not-you and is clearly satire is what pushes you to leave and say I'm "an incredibly unpleasant person", really? Hoping you apologize for essentially throwing a tantrum in post-game. I've been pushing players I don't like for game-related reasons.
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Post Post #984 (isolation #110) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:29 am

Post by Dunnstral »

Actually, popopopopo is being replaced for inactivity; his prod expired.
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Post Post #985 (isolation #111) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:29 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In which case, I'm fine with waiting for a replacement. I thought he just left after seeing himself at L-1 (lim-1)
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Post Post #986 (isolation #112) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:32 am

Post by Dunnstral »

(I'm pretty sure Klick replacing out makes them town, and I was pretty sure they were town anyway.)
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Post Post #990 (isolation #113) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:56 am

Post by Dunnstral »

I'll sheep Klick's townread on notscience
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Post Post #993 (isolation #114) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:59 am

Post by Dunnstral »

I shouldn't have responded I guess, they started something personal. I don't really care to argue about this in thread right now
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Post Post #994 (isolation #115) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:00 am

Post by Dunnstral »

Let's not act like dropping "You are an incredibly unpleasant person Dunnstral" out of nowhere and then replacing out is peachy though - that's toxic
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Post Post #996 (isolation #116) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:03 am

Post by Dunnstral »

So you agree with the popopopopopopo wagon?
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Post Post #998 (isolation #117) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:14 am

Post by Dunnstral »

I don't particularly feel that Emperor flippynips is scum, and I don't agree with thinking Klick gets mad there as a result of being scum with flippy
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Post Post #999 (isolation #118) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:30 am

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 992, Isis wrote:for the record, "you should grow a thicker skin" is awful
I think context is important. Obviously it wouldn't be ok to say to somebody who is actually going through something, you know. The way I interpreted it, Klick was just whining about me being passive aggressive
to someone else
. So that's why I said what I said. Klick was acting offended over someone else's behalf and it was a tone deaf response to what was satire based on the play instead of the player.

I just feel the need to defend myself now.
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Post Post #1040 (isolation #119) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:46 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

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Post Post #1046 (isolation #120) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:26 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 1041, Hoopla wrote:i don't think there's any role popo could claim that i'd unequivocally believe.
Really? Not even like a normal investigative role?
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Post Post #1048 (isolation #121) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:02 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 1047, Hoopla wrote:the only role i'd believe is a mason/IC/FN type role.
Even though you're already claiming fn?
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Post Post #1050 (isolation #122) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:05 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

You went from trying to get a counter wagon going to lynching without a claim because there's nothing he could claim to change your mind
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Post Post #1052 (isolation #123) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:51 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

If this flips red, who do you suspect more?
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Post Post #1054 (isolation #124) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:05 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 1053, Hoopla wrote:una/sujimichi
Disagree with these
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Post Post #1057 (isolation #125) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:10 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 1056, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:
Porkens replaces popopopopopopo
Awkward
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Post Post #1058 (isolation #126) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:11 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

In post 1055, Hoopla wrote:who's your pick if popo flips scum?
I'd take a look at Emperor flippyNips, Galron
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Post Post #1060 (isolation #127) » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:11 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Probably moreso Galron
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Post Post #2457 (isolation #128) » Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:52 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

I died here so long ago that I don't really know what happened

Tracker living to 5 people alive and town still mislimming looks very unlucky
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Post Post #2489 (isolation #129) » Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:28 am

Post by Dunnstral »

I mean, you guys are only saying it was the right play because they were scum. If they were a town even night friendly neighbor would it still have been the right play to eliminate them?

I stand by eliminating someone who was neutral to Hoopla - their alignment didn't really relate to Hoopla's
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Post Post #2513 (isolation #130) » Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:15 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

I also buy into that, it's especially apparent when mafia don't have a choice in who they kill (cop outs with an inno on day 2, they have to kill the cop, then the inno, then probably another role that cleared themself)
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