Mini Normal 2166 | Dog Show Champions | Game Over

[Alchemist21]

I get to be first for once!

VOTE: EchoVision

Echoes are based on sound, not sight. Clearly the name is a scum contradiction.

[Alchemist21]

clearly alchemist is a scared little mafia-man who knows i've caught him

I was playing 2K!

Spoiler: What I was actually doing

[Alchemist21]

Why vote Gamma for that?

[Alchemist21]

because that's the side i've chosen. it's the scummiest side

Okay how tho

I was okay with you voting me but saying my side is “the scummiest” is a massive reach

it's the posts you made.

Elaborate.

[Alchemist21]

mizzy, do you not remember me?

Who the fuck are you?

i don't remember speaking to you...?

Nero confirmed playing on 2 accounts.

[Alchemist21]

I had a hard time telling if Tris was serious or not. I think it was just RVS stuff though.

[Alchemist21]

alc vote tris with us

Nah, don’t think I will.

[Alchemist21]

Why do you keep voting the same person over and over? Is this the echo part of your name?

[Alchemist21]

Want a pancake with your waffle?

As long as they have syrup.

[Alchemist21]

alc vote tris with us

Nah, don’t think I will.

Yeah. So what do you think of the wagon on tris? Are you town/null on tris and do you think the tris voters are legit with their votes? Why don't you want to go there?

I think it’s the kind of wagon that forms on people who screw around and people don’t get the joke. Tris’s behavior is probably more likely Town than scum. Will look closer at the voters when I’m not tired; right now all that stands out is the one person voting them 4 times.

[Alchemist21]

I think it’s the kind of wagon that forms on people who screw around and people don’t get the joke. Tris’s behavior is probably more likely Town than scum. Will look closer at the voters when I’m not tired; right now all that stands out is the one person voting them 4 times.

What does it mean to you that he is always voting tris again?

I think it’s his schtick.

[Alchemist21]

I think it’s the kind of wagon that forms on people who screw around and people don’t get the joke. Tris’s behavior is probably more likely Town than scum. Will look closer at the voters when I’m not tired; right now all that stands out is the one person voting them 4 times.

What does it mean to you that he is always voting tris again?

I think it’s his schtick.

do you have anything to say about any of the other voters then?

Not really. Your early play is the kind that I would expect to get votes.

[Alchemist21]

^Does Iconeum usually lurk as scum? Or is that just a general lurkadurp scumread?

[Alchemist21]

alc vote tris with us

Nah, don’t think I will.

Yeah. So what do you think of the wagon on tris? Are you town/null on tris and do you think the tris voters are legit with their votes? Why don't you want to go there?

I think it’s the kind of wagon that forms on people who

screw around

and people don’t get the joke. Tris’s behavior is probably more likely Town than scum. Will look closer at the voters when I’m not tired; right now all that stands out is the one person voting them 4 times.

I wouldn't really say that's what Tris was doing though, more like... flopping? Idk, I'm reluctant to call it flailing since I agree with your second sentence. If anything, it's Echo who was mucking about by spamvoting her.

You agree with my read but it doesn’t sound like your reason is the same, so what are you Townreading from Tris? Can you elaborate on why you Townread 89

[Alchemist21]

I think I had one game with scum Ico. I’ll check, thry might have been on the lower end of the post count then too. I don’t remember having them labelled in my head as a lurker, but I glossed over all their posts too.

[Alchemist21]

Ok the game I was thinking of they were Town. If there was another game I can’t remember which one. Their posts there average out to only 2 or 3 each rl day but they did post a lot at the start.

The game I’m referencing: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=79422

Yeah I think this is a good first wagon.

VOTE: Iconeum

VOTE:

[Alchemist21]

iconeum was inactive as town

Did you actually read the part of my post where I said Iconeum posted a lot at the start of the Town game?

[Alchemist21]

Starting a wagon on a player who is MIA nice

It's a good place to start.

[Alchemist21]

Unless they replace out Iconeum will react to it when they do start posting.

If Iconeum does replace out, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

[Alchemist21]

^Does Iconeum usually lurk as scum? Or is that just a general lurkadurp scumread?

I think I just had a game with scum him where he was rather quiet until pressed on it
He says he has weekend V/LA but it's not the weekend so that's not an excuse rn

which game was that?

i do have standing weekend vla's, but that's only saturday and sundays

i'm so ashamed...

it looks like echo did this in his last game as well

don't meta dive me
if i wasn't already voting you i'd vote you just for that

Do you seriously have a problem with people trying to get meta on you?

Unrelated but I see Ico’s posting now so I’ll unvote.

UNVOTE:

[Alchemist21]

if i start out by playing like a dip shit then i don't have to explain myself to people which is significantly less work for me a

How often does that actually work out for you instead of you just getting voted out.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: alchemist

what's AI about me not being here?
i don't get the 'low post' reference, because i wasn't low posting

and then you reference a game where i low posted, but was town and conclude i'm probs scum here then?

or am i misreading that?

You’re misreading it. See my post to Tris before you got here.

[Alchemist21]

but here I just felt like making a joke about it.

11 sorta makes me think this wasn't a joke.

but also

VOTE: echovision
Serious vote of my own.

you aren't using your words so either you are scum that's pretending like they are doing things by throwing down a forceful naked vote or you are massively unhelpful town.

I was joking about it because I wanted to move past it
And like, I was trying to pressure EV to not be rando but that didn't work it seems
still feel like voting there since I don't really know why EV is doing what he's doing and it's not a thing that I can see waved away by a "weird =/= scum" line

if i start out by playing like a dip shit then i don't have to explain myself to people which is significantly less work for me and it's so fantastic
i can just read the thread and have some fun by extending my self-rvs until i find something to bite on

Or we can vote you out for deliberately obfuscating your motives

See Gamma knows what’s up.

[Alchemist21]

I was thinking that scum wouldn't forget that they hadn't moved their vote.

Not really sure that’s a good reason to be Townreading someone.

[Alchemist21]

and uncommitted

Define uncommitted here because I don’t know what you mean by that.

[Alchemist21]

there's a 75% chance that the two i named town are town and those are some pretty good odds

actually this is even worse math because odds aren't the same for two people because odds multiply but asjdks math

Never apologize for correcting someone’s math.

[Alchemist21]

I don’t only vote if I’m highly confident about a read. That’s the common course on my homesite, but I’ve played so much here vs. over there that I’m more inclined to apply my vote in aims of sorting people.

Ok but is there a reason you’re still choosing Ico at this point?

[Alchemist21]

Anybody think Echo is leaning on their playstyle here to avoid actually scumhunting

I think everyone is getting that vibe from Echo. At least 3 people have called him on his playstyle.

[Alchemist21]

Liking Nero here this Gamma push is good

I’m actually liking Gamma and Nero both for Town. I think this is the Nero/Gamma clash we were warned about.

[Alchemist21]

I know I’m chaining a lot of posts together but y’all added 5 pages since yesterday.

[Alchemist21]

Is alch even trying?

I started a new job Tuesday that keeps me busy. Tonight and this weekend will be the first time I’ve been able to really put in more effort.

Hopefully my weekday activity will improve as I get used to the new job and don’t come home as tired every day.

[Alchemist21]

Alch has your Icon opinion changed now that he's here?

Thinking Ico is more Towny than not. I’m liking most of their posts about Gamma but I kinda need them to explain 215 a bit more.

[Alchemist21]

Echo's a good vote.

VOTE: Echovision

I'm not really thrilled with Egix's response in 343 but everything else from them seems fine.

[Alchemist21]

I disagree that Echo has really gotten better; I think he's actually started playing because of pressure

wow this is your first unique statement all game good shit brother man

No it’s not. I’m not in love with Cakez’ posts but saying he hasn’t said anything unique is just false.

[Alchemist21]

Nero I just don’t think Gamma’s scum here? Are you willing to come to Echo?

[Alchemist21]

if, gamma's not happening, what about VOTE: egix?

There are 2 days left. I don’t think a wagon that isn’t already a large one is going to happen. What makes you think Egix is more viable than Gamma?

[Alchemist21]

i like my vote on echo
at some point i was thinking about switching to gamma but after skitter rep-in i'm kinda eh on that now

still would switch there if needed

also my inner pessimism is starting to say that gamma/echo are probably t/t and it doesn't really matter
no i don't have anything rational to back that up with

Maybe this is answered already (I’m behind and reading through) but why does Skitter’s replace in affect your thoughts on Gamma?

[Alchemist21]

so the thing is that i fundementally dont believe survivalism to be a town-indicative trait, but it is fairly correlated with being scum imo

Disagree on this. Townies should want to survive and not get voted out because they’re confTown to themselves.

[Alchemist21]

i disagree with the assessment here, because survivalistic town would also not be making that vote. I'd argue that it's more scum!indicative then town, and that it gives + scum equity to the cw as scum are more likely to not be counter-voting on partners.

A) so the thing is that i fundementally dont believe survivalism to be a town-indicative trait, but it is fairly correlated with being scum imo

B) so yu're saying you see gamma/echo as svs? Or am i misunderstanding the second bit?

I believe that survivalism is a NAI trait. At least, I know I do that from both allignments. And from a basic thoughts level: town!gamma knows he's town, so his flip is Always 'the wrong one'. As for Echo, he can't know.

Yes, I think gamma not wanting to cross-vote is scum/scum indicative.

I still don’t think Gamma’s scum but what you’re saying makes sense.

[Alchemist21]

Maybe this is answered already (I’m behind and reading through) but why does Skitter’s replace in affect your thoughts on Gamma?

it is half-answered, and it is very weird to explain

like historically, whenever i was t/t with skitter, our reads were very different, and i wanted to murder her. the only time i was town with her being scum, i *didn't* want to murder her. now, with her replace in here, our reads were/are very different, and i slightly feel the urge to murder her. which is making me think she might be town.

you following? ok.

whenever we were t/t and had differing reads, hers always turned out to be much more correct than mine. that is giving me pause on gamma. though i would probably still execute gamma anyway. though it realistically doesn't really matter because the wagon is pretty dead.

Ok I understand what you’re saying.

[Alchemist21]

I think Datisi’a Town. The way they’re handling Skitter’s slot is just something I would sometimes expect from Town but never expect from scum.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Cakez

[Alchemist21]

Why are you guys voting without words?

I’ve been told I’m a man of few words.

But seriously, I think Cakez is scum because he keeps hedging on slots and making soft pushes. Remember early game when he started to push me and just dropped it for no apparent reason? He was kinda everywhere with echo; I remember him calling echo out for backpedaling but at the end of the day was voting Gamma anyway.

[Alchemist21]

not really in love with the Tris=town if Gamma is town. Kinda makes worry that its a tris/test team and she's trying to get her buddy town read by sacrificing a town Gamma.

but then I think Gamma is scum so...idk.

It’s the first thing from Testa I don’t really understand either. I’m Townreading Gamma and I don’t get how their alignments are necessarily tied.

@Testarossa, Do you usually play on Mafiascum or on another site?

I know that question seems random but I assure you it has relevance.

[Alchemist21]

Because it's light. I don't worry about something until it's heavy and then I yell "great scott!"

Testa's vote seems related to her weird wagonomics stuff that I'm waiting for an answer to 797 before I go any further with that discussion.

[Alchemist21]

@Testarossa, Do you usually play on Mafiascum or on another site?

I know that question seems random but I assure you it has relevance.

Right now only here, you could consider me kind of as "newbie" to this site I think.

Used to play a lot on another site, but well, that was 7-8 years ago.

How much of your play is still based on how things worked on that other site? What you’re saying about how the early wagons played out would be more reasonable for a game that had 24-48 hour deadlines but not really for these longer MS deadlines.

[Alchemist21]

nka is wishy washy but w/e. How come I kill the guy that was only very lightly scumreading me as opposed to the girl thats tunneling me? (Skitter)

this is kind of a lame defense Nero. It's pretty obvious that you want to elim Skitter so ofc you wouldn't NK her.

mmmmk I see you Alch ignoring my rebuttal to your "push"

“Rebuttal”

[Alchemist21]

I was referring to this Alch

So was I.

[Alchemist21]

How much of your play is still based on how things worked on that other site? What you’re saying about how the early wagons played out would be more reasonable for a game that had 24-48 hour deadlines but not really for these longer MS deadlines.

Maybe, old habits die hard after all. I mean I would let that apply on my take on Una, fine.

I don't think it doesn't matter too much with looking at your wagon. My impression of you, solely based on this game so far, is that you wouldn't seem to be the kind of character who wouldn't mind being in the center of attention as scum and those often respond even to an early wagon in some kind of way.

My problem with you lies not mainly in this though. You were early able to correctly understand Echo's odd behaviour as "his schtick". Somewhat similar case with tris, where you came around thinking of it as town. When you dropped your vote on Echo I could imagine you were thinking it was for avoiding scumhunting with it or too much anti-town play for your liking by that point. But later? You only object to his take on Cakez that Cakez wouldn't have said anything unique. Otherwise no reaction to Echo's reads nor his suspicions (you were even one of them), which looks odd if him avoiding scumhunting was one of your major concerns. Why were you fine with leaving your vote on Echo?

At first it was because I didn’t have any stronger reads. By end of day the read on Echo strengthened because I thought he was trying to fake his emotional reaction to his own wagon. He would flip between giving a shit and not giving a shit in a way that seemed like it bothered him but he wanted to act like it didn’t. It all just seemed like a song and dance to me.

[Alchemist21]

I hope you get better soon skitter!

[Alchemist21]

V/LA until October 2nd.

I’m most likely going to have to work extremely late tomorrow night. I’m probably not going to be able to post tomorrow and depending on if it affects my sleep schedule I may have no energy for this on the 1st.

[Alchemist21]

Skimmed through since my last post.

Can confirm me, Unah, and NM are all in a hood. Attempts were made at sorting each other but people were hardly around. NM is now saying he’s not going to post in the hood unless Unah or I become confTown.

[Alchemist21]

like, what else has been going on in there?

Not much. People are hardly there. Skitter and I talked about her read on me a bit, Unah talked some about his Testa/Cakez reads.

[Alchemist21]

Nah. Cakez sus.

[Alchemist21]

Most of skitter's read are somewhat similar to Mizzy's reads... more or less at least.

Una, were there any interactions between Mizzy and Alch in the hood with Mizzy trying to sort Alch? Did skitter say anything noteworthy in your opinion? Don't tell me your guys' hood is really that uninteresting.

Mizzy was barely ever there. Skitter actually had a lot to say about me.

[Alchemist21]

I'm also not sure if it means anything, but I think me and skitter both were discussing revealing the hood as early as D1, and Alch was the one who didn't want to do it.
That's why I threw that comment at Nero about both of my neighbors never being scum together.
Not sure if it means anything, just throwing out anything and everything I can think of.

Why was Alch against revealing the hood?

Also happy birthday, Una.

I’m generally against outing role info and was hoping we might have an all-Town hood that could work like a Masonry.

[Alchemist21]

I agree with the End of Day posts yesterday that said Testa had a bad progression on their vote.

I haven’t seen anything particularly scummy from Egix but they might be the scum I’m sleeping on.

NM could go either way but if it’s not him then it’s probably Tris unless I’ve just been horribly wrong on Gamma and in that case Nero is going to beat me up post-game.

Ico and Unah are the only ones I’m comfortable calling Town here.

[Alchemist21]

feel free to start the massclaim

Is this @me?

[Alchemist21]

Neighbor

State Farm

Mr Rogers

Quite a multi-faceted role I’d say.

[Alchemist21]

Nope

[Alchemist21]

Even assuming all the claims are Town, Town still felt underpowered until Testarossa IC’d.

Triss and Ico together has me raising an eyebrow because their roles do similar things in slightly different ways and idk why Town would have both.

[Alchemist21]

Even assuming all the claims are Town, Town still felt underpowered until Testarossa IC’d.

Triss and Ico together has me raising an eyebrow because their roles do similar things in slightly different ways and idk why Town would have both.

i modded a pre-made normal game once that had three different protective roles

And what were the other roles in that game? I’ve played a Normal this size with 2 vigs, but it also had 2 Doctors. I’m saying that in this setup specifically it’s an oddity that stands out.

[Alchemist21]

can we do alchemist?

Giggity

[Alchemist21]

Gg.

Tbh I wasn’t a fan of the 2s-1T hood because of the natural assumptions people would make about balance, but a lot of people did question it at some point so maybe it’s not an auto-lose setup for Town. I’m not really a balance expert.

Can we get the review PT? I’m curious what NSG and Mastina said about it.