Large Normal 230 - Game Over

[innocentvillager]

first

[innocentvillager]

Ok. I never got this role before but judging by what it does, I think it is best for town to know it, I'm a Town Doctor, what a crappy role to get, thank you mod!

[innocentvillager]

are you an alt?

[innocentvillager]

what’s your mafia experience then

[innocentvillager]

are you around still?

[innocentvillager]

im genuinely curious as to how much mafia you have played online lol

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Guillotina

Looks like a new player pretending to be experienced

I think you mean the other way around

[innocentvillager]

im genuinely curious as to how much mafia you have played online lol

I've been playing since may this year.

where?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Guillotina

Looks like a new player pretending to be experienced

I think you mean the other way around

Yeah. That guy's account has gotten alt written all over it.

lol

if he’s an alt like, whatever, but I am interested as to why it feels like he’s being kind of weirdly cagey and minimalist about the whole experience thing

I’d like to ask him another question but I kinda want him to be here to answer it

[innocentvillager]

hello

Can you go into detail on why you decided to claim? The whole thought process

[innocentvillager]

no huge rush, but it would be less suspicious if you responded to this somewhat wuickly

[innocentvillager]

Im not sure if is against the rules mentioning other mafia sites here.

it is absolutely not

And I did ask the question just in case you didn’t see, if you did ignore this

[innocentvillager]

Just make a couple more posts IV, 4 more and you'll upgrade your title from Mafia scum.

i have powered up

[innocentvillager]

that alone made you confident enough to claim?

is claiming our of the gate on the sites you play on common meta there?

[innocentvillager]

I just think like, claiming is a very bold move to make especially early oN so I’m surprised you had the confidence never being on this site before to just, go for it

You can always delay the claim to a later point

but you can never unclaim

[innocentvillager]

yeah I understand! Sorry, I just wanted to know the answer soon ish because I wanted to make sure it was coming from you specifically, and not your scum partners

I promise I won’t ask you to do that again, I think, I didn’t mean any offense

[innocentvillager]

Ok i gave this guy a second look and i do believe he might be an real person. Not an chatbot designed to pose as a human, neither an experienced player testing out an new alt playstyle.

yeah I agree

But the red flags were there and I don’t regret looking into it

[innocentvillager]

thank u!

[innocentvillager]

why is Norway town?

[innocentvillager]

More important question, why does them being experienced or not matter?

it matters imo in the context of their claim

[innocentvillager]

why is Norway town?

13 and 52 townpinged
interesting how you didn't question my tr on you

I was your townlean with a question mark

I think that’s a reasonable assessment of my slot but if you’d like to elaborate go ahead

i was more interested in why Norway was town, because I didn’t see anything town indicative really tbh, he’s still a fat null for me I think

I don’t mind your response

[innocentvillager]

how much experience do you have with Norway

maybe you can convince me he’s town

[innocentvillager]

I definitely believe that they are ascetic, I would like, maybe bet the game on it

I don’t know if have a strong opinion on their a l i g n m e n t specifically gth town tho

[innocentvillager]

I saw you sussing me and tried to get you on my side by pretending that I cared about sorting you

So, uhh, yeah Norway

[innocentvillager]

also, I faked paranoia about you pocketing me when you readflipped me first before you could suspect I was pocketing you

To further pocket you

My main pockets were you, Nep, and throughout most of the game worsty

[innocentvillager]

Yeah cus you’re acting with a bit more caution here so that gives me slightly better vibes.
Although 2 times you’ve already screwed me so i’m treating you with awe for now. Like an dangerous tamed python.

lol

i mean, I think I’m like slightly townreading you like maybe because i can see all of this coming from town!you

but I haven’t seen you as scum so

[innocentvillager]

actually are you trying pocket me Norway >.<

[innocentvillager]

why did you only look more into your role now...? And not when you got your role pm

did you not think to look it up before your claim?

[innocentvillager]

just to be clear

you have never seen this role before right? Or played with it? even on MU and your other site?

[innocentvillager]

i mean, we’re like sort of out of rvs already

it’s never too early to start sowing the seeds

[innocentvillager]

okay Norway this guy is town

let’s move on lol

[innocentvillager]

actually idc if you move on or not keep searching if you’re still interested but I’m ready to move on

[innocentvillager]

yeah tonally and emotionally this whole thing doesn’t seem like some master elaborate well thought out plan to get towncred

which it just like, kind of has to have

there are too many like, random things that stick out in this story that he has explained promptly and reasonably

it’s either like superbly fake-newb thought out and delivered fluently in like the most eccentric way possible or hes just... town

[innocentvillager]

I can’t English but you get the point

yes it is my first language >.<

pagetop for daddy

[innocentvillager]

Wow fail

[innocentvillager]

um yeah I’m gonna go for a while and let the stragglers just like, give their thoughts

i tend to flood the early game when I happen to have time around day start and I’ll gradually lurk it off

bye

pedit: no I’m just illiterate

I’ll take valley girl as a compliment though

[innocentvillager]

I’m certainly not 100% convinced, it takes a lot for me to get close to there

But it’s more than enough for me for a townread to move on to reading other people

[innocentvillager]

not really no. The thing with IV is his "questioning of Gul just felt busy working like a "LOOK AT ME IM DOING THINGS!" but I'm glad he finally got around to town reading Gul.

I like/d muh as scum but Nopow's vote makes me less cofident.

the whole point of my questioning was to draw our posts from him that made it more and more clear he was town

[innocentvillager]

yeah gamma and Taylor I know it’s the correct play if you are an ascetic

But that’s not the point

The point was to understand why he did it under the context of what his experience was

He didn’t know that he was supposed to do it because “it’s a thing you do”, he said that he did it purely because of his own thoughts

I wanted to dig into that more and see if it was more likely to come from a town or scum mindset

im surprised that I’m like, getting flak for this tbh

[innocentvillager]

the whole point of my questioning was to draw our posts from him that made it more and more clear he was town

were you already town reading him?

yeah somewhat

[innocentvillager]

which one

[innocentvillager]

is that not something you do? I think it’s like a very effective way to get townreads

If you see something that looks towny and hard to fake, don’t you want to see if you can try and dig in and solidify that townread more..?

@gamma mini 2163 Is literally my only experience with it

[innocentvillager]

@gamma mini 2163 Is literally my only experience with it

Okay. I already dived that game so that’s good to know.

why did you want to know that, if you already know that I know ascetic should be claimed immediately

If you see something that looks towny and hard to fake, don’t you want to see if you can try and dig in and solidify that townread more..?

this is kind of my issue.

ofc the counter-argument is that there wasn't much that had happened yet so there wasn't much to do in the way of scumhunting

I’m not understanding what your issue with this is

I saw something that could be potentially town!indicative, I wanted to see the thought process behind it and see if it was genuine or not, and it seemed genuine

[innocentvillager]

yeah gamma and Taylor I know it’s the correct play if you are an ascetic

But that’s not the point

The point was to understand why he did it under the context of what his experience was

He didn’t know that he was supposed to do it because “it’s a thing you do”, he said that he did it purely because of his own thoughts

I wanted to dig into that more and see if it was more likely to come from a town or scum mindset

im surprised that I’m like, getting flak for this tbh

Now that I see others digging into it it’s actually becoming clearer that was the intent
Would still like an answer to my earlier question @ you

VOTE: NPOM
Let’s pressure this.

wait sorry I’m confused

You wrote this post, asking about my experience with ascetic and millers, literally having quoted my post in response that had “I know it’s the correct play if you’re an ascetic” at the very top

So why did you still want the answer to that question at that point

[innocentvillager]

muh, comments on guillotina? Seems like you were sussing them earlier

[innocentvillager]

There are site rules why you can't talk about Gamma Emerald not being a townread of yours?

yeah this stuff happens all the time

[innocentvillager]

town block me/nero/norway/guillotina/TGP/may

I don’t hate it

i think trying to establish a big townbloc early on is somewhat townie unless there are multiple scum in there, unfortunately kind of a useless read rn because we don’t know if there are scum in there

[innocentvillager]

tbf, I think my only real townread is guillotina at this point :/

[innocentvillager]

writing the claim off as NAI and ignoring all conversation around that seems lazy and at least mildly scum!indicative

I think Taylor said that

but then again it’s taylor so ugh maybe it’s nai

[innocentvillager]

i await your catchup then kanna

it is interesting that your early skim up to whatever point you’re at, You independently came to a similar conclusion as Nero about me that I’m just putting on a show

makes uh, neros suspicion more reasonable I guess because I doubt both of you are scum

Taylor my description on why I townread guill is like a whole post in my iso somewhere sorry to lazy to find it

[innocentvillager]

yeah tonally and emotionally this whole thing doesn’t seem like some master elaborate well thought out plan to get towncred

which it just like, kind of has to have

there are too many like, random things that stick out in this story that he has explained promptly and reasonably

it’s either like superbly fake-newb thought out and delivered fluently in like the most eccentric way possible or hes just... town

here ya go

[innocentvillager]

There are too many townreads on me

probably means you’re just town

[innocentvillager]

I will get to this at some point

377 is a good question btw

I like, can kinda of see where he’s going with those townreads and why he has them like kind of

and I liked the fact that he was trying to establish a town block early

At the same time, I haven’t efforted much myself trying to find townreads which again I need to reread instead of just skim

But lately my standard for townread has been going up in early game

[innocentvillager]

I like, can kinda of see where he’s going with those townreads and why he has them like kind of

so are you saying that you share those town reads?

Not really

I’m just saying I think I see where it could come from

[innocentvillager]

At the same time, I haven’t efforted much myself trying to find townreads which again I need to reread instead of just skim

it feels like you came out strong and you were pretty active early on. Why do you think you've lost some of that early energy?

This like very frequently happens when I get into catchup mode

as either alignment, slightly more intensely as scum tho

If I start efforting and reading more closely I’ll probably get back into it

[innocentvillager]

now that is where I disagree with you, sir

[innocentvillager]

actually when you say it like that maybe you’re right

idk man I got confused somewhere

bottom line is i think I see where the TRs come from, not necessarily that like, I’m okay with establishing whatever he said as a universal townbloc

that’s my pov

[innocentvillager]

lol Norway

You wouldn’t understand because you haven’t played with me outside of those games, I can’t fault you for that

The whole purpose of my agenda in mini 2160 was literally to emulate my towngame, mostly for worsty to townread me

Lovers is not a good example of my towngame, everything I said about that game in 2160 was all true, despite me being scum

I don’t like, push as town unless I really feel like I could be onto something

[innocentvillager]

Guil is not scum lol

[innocentvillager]

catching up a bit but this game does move very fast

[innocentvillager]

im kind of caught up

i can sort of produce some content. what do y'all want to know

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Umlaut let's just leave this here for now

please don't lolelim guil -_-

[innocentvillager]

why is GE scum, DGB? That one did stick out to me

[innocentvillager]

I find this pretty believable, and I think just going "Oops, unvote" instead of trying to shoehorn in some sort of why-I-changed-my-mind in response to the questioning is a towntell.

Agreed, i think it's pretty townie for them to genuinely explain that they made an mistake.

they can like make this mistake as scum too

I believe they made the mistake, im not sure how it’s necessarily AI, although I’ll admit that my first reaction was to think it’s a townie reaction.

[innocentvillager]

It's AI because scum are more concerned with appearing self-consistent, and therefore more likely to try and cover up that there was any contradiction in what they wrote.

lol umlaut

You really think scum!dgb who made a perfectly understandable and legitimate mistake

Doesn’t take the perfect opportunity to explain themselves here with that mess up to get towncred

And instead tries to quickly cover it up with some super weird fake justification on how their read somehow reversed 180

I don’t know if believe this is a real read

[innocentvillager]

this is a good wagon

[innocentvillager]

You really think scum!dgb who made a perfectly understandable and legitimate mistake

Doesn’t take the perfect opportunity to explain themselves here with that mess up to get towncred

That's entirely possible, sure. Wouldn't that imply there is towncred to be gained in the first place by admitting to the slip-up?

fine, assuming she gets towncred for that might have been a bit of a circular-esque assumption

but regardless of how it might be viewed, it can't really be like, that bad

my main point, was in the rest of that quote that you cut off, which was how it seems unlikely scum!dgb wouldn't just admit to the genuine mistake they actually made

so I'm wondering with all this in mind, why you're still townreading that reaction/if you are

I can only remember one other game I played with IV and he was on my ass because he didn't like my reads in that game too.

To be fair, my reads really were bad in that game and the guy he criticized me for hard-defending was scum.

lmao, what a game, and it was also a cakez game. also was me and you from 4+ years ago so I'm not gonna read into too much. that was also teen aggro-iv

was there anything in particular you wanted to reference from that game? or just for nostalgia's sake? (<3)

[innocentvillager]

im like, kind of just surprised that my vote on umlaut gained such a huge following so quickly (albeit not for the reasons im necessarily initially suspecting him for). let's just... see how this develops i guess

[innocentvillager]

So who are my scumbuddies?

other than me?

ur too funny

in all seriousness openwolfing should be more encouraged by everyone

[innocentvillager]

Who do you think muh's scumbuddies are?

Why are you asking me for pre-flip associatives?

I don't know who his buddies are. I don't even know if he's scum.

VOTE: umlaut this is a lack of confidence in scumreads that i don't expect from town.

while i don't expect you to know if he's scum, that wording was terrible.

i vibe with the second part of this, but not the first part like at all, and i don't even see how the two ideas are related?

[innocentvillager]

wait actually, why don't you expect him [Umlaut] to know if he [muh] is town. that implies you are kind of considering him as town, yet you're voting him

i don't want to get into semantical territory because scumslips aren't really a thing but uh... just flagging this

[innocentvillager]

fine, assuming she gets towncred for that might have been a bit of a circular-esque assumption

but regardless of how it might be viewed, it can't really be like, that bad

my main point, was in the rest of that quote that you cut off, which was how it seems unlikely scum!dgb wouldn't just admit to the genuine mistake they actually made

so I'm wondering with all this in mind, why you're still townreading that reaction/if you are

i think off of this line of questioning, i also don't love that you only responded to that one specific part of my quote that was like slightly logically fallacious and maintained your stance/didn't address the meat of my argument

gives me the vibe that you don't actually care about evaluating DGB/are more interested in attacking my argument only

it's weak because i do know players who do this stuff as town too but yeah still

[innocentvillager]

i appreciate that guil is making the effort to PbPA Norway and ABR even if i personally don't think it's the most time-effective way to analyze. i don't mind playing with self absorbed players at all i think, as long as they're not dicks. Norway i don't think it makes them townier necessarily, but whatever makes you see the light i guess

i thinkkkk ABR is town though, mostly just tonally and some mindmelding

[innocentvillager]

Glitch NPOM Umlot Kanna-slot and Golden

Pretty sure we have better than 50% odds of hitting scum in this group

I'll iso guillotine

i actually really liked this PoE tbh, even though i doubt it actually contains 3 scum

[innocentvillager]

You really think scum!dgb who made a perfectly understandable and legitimate mistake

Doesn’t take the perfect opportunity to explain themselves here with that mess up to get towncred

That's entirely possible, sure. Wouldn't that imply there is towncred to be gained in the first place by admitting to the slip-up?

Innocentvillager is just scum calling town tells scum tells, except he's so overeager to do it that he's doing it on what's more likely to be read as a scum tell.

Now I've seen it all.

?? I get that you’re making fun of me for being dumb but like, maybe I’m so dumb that you need to spell out exactly what I’m dumb for

which makes me feel even dumber that I need to ask you to do this

[innocentvillager]

anyways I do not TR your reaction

I certainly don’t scumread it, Theres zero compelling reason to scumread it i think

I’m more concerned about umlauts read on the reaction, which feels lazy and disingenuous

can you answer why GE is scum? And now me, I guess?

[innocentvillager]

i appreciate that guil is making the effort to PbPA Norway and ABR even if i personally don't think it's the most time-effective way to analyze. i don't mind playing with self absorbed players at all i think, as long as they're not dicks. Norway i don't think it makes them townier necessarily, but whatever makes you see the light i guess

i thinkkkk ABR is town though, mostly just tonally and some mindmelding

I like the first paragraph, i disagree with the second one.

Will you please point out what things you mindmelded with him on?

i like ABR's tone on gut, if i had to describe it it feels loose/natural and like he's having a good time, not lamisty, but very direct towards actually finding scum (maybe this is just playstyle as both alignments but good enough for me rn I think)

he shares somewhat similar reads to me (like the PoE pool I quoted) and i like the jump on umlaut for obvious reasons

even when i disagree a bit it feels like i see where he's coming from

none of this is like, a crazy strong towntell but I like it overall

i don't buy your accusations towards him

[innocentvillager]

ok IV is added to the town list.

I feel like I could be of service to this town list, or more specifically of a tight knit circle with whom there is a mutual trust between.

i kinda think you're town

Just because you know someone doesn't make them town.

who u referring to?

[innocentvillager]

IV like really irks me.

im sorry what about me irks you lol

don't like my playstyle or like, you just think im scuma nd you're pinged?

[innocentvillager]

you like a POE that has, at most, 2 scum?

Wich 2 players in it do you think are scum?

d1 reads are bad in general and almost everyone overestimates their reads, including myself, so just from probability doubt 3/4 scum are in a 5man pool

glitch, umlaut are probably the ones i personally think have highest scum equity but meh

[innocentvillager]

dgb can you answer questions? ty

[innocentvillager]

gut mostly for both

glitch's entrance was pretty meh and all his catchup content has been kind of dead null

ive been engaging umlaut so you can see some reasons i don't love that slot

[innocentvillager]

but u voted umlat b4 you engaged him. What was the reason for the vote?

the posting feels kind of stilted and the content feels boring, shallow, mildly agreeable, nothing particularly interesting

[innocentvillager]

like they're fine observations but uh, they seem more objective than subjective if that makes sense

[innocentvillager]

he was scumreading your only other scumread, it seemed like you may have liked him. So did you think he was like bussing Glitch?

im not at a level of confidence where i care about that kind of stuff yet

[innocentvillager]

i understand what you're asking and it's valid, it did cross my mind, but im really not expecting to solve the team on d1

dgb: uhh let's just start with

a) why you're voting me/what that jab earlier at me means, sorry im dumb and cant understand english
b) why GE is scum

[innocentvillager]

?? these are some of my original reads lol

it is english im just bad at it

[innocentvillager]

nah i have more

uh, just because someone else posts similar reads before me, makes my reads just "sheeping them" and unoriginal? even if i was scum, that is kind of bizarre assumption to make fypov imo

i dont feel the need to give all of them? if you have specific people you want to know about, hmu

i have like, said more than those two reads if you read my iso as well

[innocentvillager]

i dont feel the need to give all of them?

y not?

just don't really feel like posting my whole readslist just for the sake of it

if there are specific people you want to know about, i can let you know what i think of them

[innocentvillager]

It's not a flawless impossible-to-fake towntell but it is a towntell. Evidence for a proposition is anything that is more likely if the proposition is true than if it's false. Regardless of how likely DGB would be to respond that way as scum, she'd be more likely to respond that way as town.

well I guess we just disagree here then

i don’t think scum!dgb like, ever doesn’t react the way she did for the reason I said so it’s NAI

[innocentvillager]

But it's if anything a reminder to myself that just because you're scumreading me for what look to me like dumb reasons doesn't mean you're scum.

lol, I mean, what do you think of the 4 other people on your wagon then

are they also scumreading you for dumb reasons

[innocentvillager]

can you elaborate on that? And why aren’t you voting one of them instead of guil

[innocentvillager]

guess

I’m sheeping nc

nc beat me to it

[innocentvillager]

Umlaut seems town.

well that’s question 3 i want answered now from you, lol

[innocentvillager]

taylor or gul or IV

muh like maybe I could get behind... maybe

these 3 I definitely cannot get behind

Two obvtowns and TS, who is probably town and we wouldn’t elim D1 anyway if it came to it

your shitfight with her felt like boring TvT

[innocentvillager]

why did we lolhammer someone like 3-4 days in

pretentious wtf -_-

[innocentvillager]

if boon is pretentious who is jacksonvirgo i thought that one was town

muh was pretty meh i wouldn't be shocked either way

[innocentvillager]

what do you think of pretentious' quick hammer?

not too sure. too scummy to scum? (lol)

even the way he did it, the whole lead up with the explanation

there was no reason to lolhammer because town will usually just policy something like that, Pretentious slot wasn't really sussed hard at all

it's like probably NAI regardless of the flip, idk

i don't believe we should just policy them tomorrow though

[innocentvillager]

it's like probably NAI regardless of the flip, idk

actually im not sure, i can see how this is scum indicative

they are kind of playing a lol!style and i can definitely see a scenario where in scum PT they are discussing this and telling him to lolhammer, ive seen scum talk about early lolhammers on d1 before

yeah so maybe on redflip it's NAI/somewhat town!indicative and on greenflip it's somewhat scum!indicative

[innocentvillager]

on greenflip and given pretentious is scum im kind of worried about:

Umlaut, NoPowerOverMe, Tayl0rSwift, TheDuke, NorwegianboyEE

basically the last 5 people on the wagon, with an emphasis on u m l a u t because that was the main CW

Norway is probably just, town from dayplay though

this is of course, given pretentious is scum and the lolhammer was planned

[innocentvillager]

Pretentious is the type of person that

knows

all of this. He knows that if he lolhammers like that it will look so scummy he might just get townread off of it.
Occams razor. If Pretentious!scum he's just hammering to seal an elimination on town without letting them claim.

yep, i account for that possibility

they are kind of playing a lol!style and i can definitely see a scenario where in scum PT they are discussing this and telling him to lolhammer, ive seen scum talk about early lolhammers on d1 before

[innocentvillager]

why do i have a sinking feeling this is slightly more likely to flip PR -_- just the deadass nullness of this boi

[innocentvillager]

VC incoming!!!!!!

cakez give us the flippy flip boi

pancakez flip

pedit: wait you think Norway might be scum now?

[innocentvillager]

how do you feel about the idea that Umlaut is more likely to be scum now, given the whole CW die down and flashwagon onto muh going into hammer

id imagine you feel good about that idea? or am i getting too excited

[innocentvillager]

contingent on greenflip, i guess

also contingent on pretentious scum, but not as much, even if pretentious town i can see this fiasco being scum!indicative for umlaut

[innocentvillager]

lol w.t.f nero

[innocentvillager]

was this some like troll reaction test i don't understand

oh well, guess thats on me for being lazy and sheeping other people's votecounts

[innocentvillager]

i want to see what pretentious has to say first

[innocentvillager]

Clearly the person this wagon reflects worst on is the one who wasn't even on it

it had more to do with the fact that you were the CW than you being on the wagon in general lol

[innocentvillager]

Also, i townread Nero, because he has indiscriminately put everyone under scrutiny and driven the room effortlessly like a real investigator. I disagree with him on certain things but overall he is townie.

yeah nero is kind of just... obvtown

[innocentvillager]

If Pretentious is scum why would Umlaut be?
IV?
Does Pretentious look like they were overly concerned about the Umlaut wagon? If there was the possibility of them being allied and Umlaut being compromised by their lolhammer it seems unlikely they would take it.

just from pure level 1 thinking why wouldn't the two be correlated?

umlaut was under fire with a decently sized wagon and so scumteam would naturally want to divert wagon away from scum!umlaut. i don't see why they couldn't use pretentious's lolstyle to excuse a lolhammer on a townie

maybe you're just thinking on level 2 here and presenting it as like, Umlaut obviously becomes compromised by Pretentious's lolhammer, but now we're just getting into a leveling thing

[innocentvillager]

that is L-4 with 5 votes on pretentious let's keep the tally up so everyone knows

please do not hammer this slot

[innocentvillager]

TGP might be town hngg

[innocentvillager]

what the fuck guys

[innocentvillager]

I mean, this looks exactly like Mini 2167 april, I thought JV was town and I definitely think you are town

Also I’m not sheeping any of your D1 reads for now, lol

[innocentvillager]

Just fade me Day 3. Like it’s the best rule, people always say it, but then don’t.

Fade me Day 3 if I am not confirmed town or dead.

?? You claimed vt right

[innocentvillager]

At the worst we lose a not very good VT, at best we flip a goon. Risk < reward.

lol, with this argument we should just eliminate people who claim VT (and by your metric isn't "very good"). And yes, claiming VT at this point in the game even by itself is kind of a massive towntell, because VTs will almost always claim VT, scum will usually claim PR (not saying they don't claim VT, but, conditional probability etc etc)

personal thoughts from one game, FL was pretty annoying for a while and I don't put stock into like, any of his early reads (he mustve scumread everyone at some point, lol) but he grew on me as the days went on

i think the best approach here is to let him do his thing for a couple days as we continue to evaluate other wagons, maybe he'll get more useful over time, but if y'all want to keep questioning him/pressure sure

my personal whatever thoughts aside i don't see any like, great reason presented so far to eliminate him albeit upon a skim of whatever shitfest happened the past 25 pages

also let's be real here for a second, his "fakehammer" at the beginning like, literally wasn't even scummy it just "looked suspicious", I highly doubt scum!FL/scumteam would've not double checked that it was an actual hammer. I found it pretty towny actually

this is just... not at all the winvector scum!FL needs to take here, rag on him all you want but he's at least like, competent enough to not do whatever the fuck he's doing unless you just want to write it off as some big massive "lol wifom this wifom that"

[innocentvillager]

i have a feeling "innocentvillager finally came to defend his scumbuddy Flavor, scumteam confirmed!" is coming

specifically from Nero

[innocentvillager]

The VT claim is not town indicative. Scum don't "always" claim PR.

yeah this is literally what i said

but just purely from the fact that VT claims VT 99% of the time and scum claims VT like <50% of the time (very conservatively) that DOES make it a towntell

on the read progression point, can you quote some specific things you thought or reference me through some posts, i don't feel like reading the whole thing

[innocentvillager]

also i think in general "not making sense" is more likely to be playstyle clash than actual scum

if someone doesn't make sense to me, more often than not it's town but I'm willing to assume it's actually NAI bc wifom etc etc

e.g. from this game guillotina

[innocentvillager]

At first they claim i'm town and Nero is scum. I question their Nero read, they stay adamant about it. Then they suddenly start changing their read. Now they think i'm scum and nero is town, and then they start saying both me and Nero is scum. (Without referencing any kind of explanation as to what makes us scummy and an likely scum team) And completely ignoring the reasons he said i was town earlier. (Which weren't pretty good to begin with)

this just seems like someone who's constantly changing their opinion? which FL did like, every two pages as town in the only game I played with him? do you really think that this is conclusive evidence?

[innocentvillager]

i feel like you and Nero are just obvtown though, that's another reason i don't care about FL's reads rn

i like getting townreads, i feel better about those than scumreads

my "scumreads" are usually just whoever is left (yes i am mostly a PoE based player, for better or worse)

I didn't love Umlaut posting similar with glitch, so I guess you could say those are the closest things I have to scumreads rn

[innocentvillager]

lol @ IV acting like I haven't already been calling him scum.

i know you have, that's why it's funny lol

I'm haveing like a really hard time telling who is scum and who is just really bad town.

I'm not scum, so i must be really bad town

[innocentvillager]

It's very tiring to debate ABR because he consistently brings up theories that are presented as conclusive evidence, and just the fact that you're arguing against him means he can argue that you implicitly agree to his flawed premise just by entertaining and humoring the thought.

it's ok norway! i will whiteknight and defend you from the mean abr!

[innocentvillager]

not really sarcasm, more just lighthearted fun

im here for fun

f u n

and i do TR both of you so

[innocentvillager]

At first they claim i'm town and Nero is scum. I question their Nero read, they stay adamant about it. Then they suddenly start changing their read. Now they think i'm scum and nero is town, and then they start saying both me and Nero is scum. (Without referencing any kind of explanation as to what makes us scummy and an likely scum team) And completely ignoring the reasons he said i was town earlier. (Which weren't pretty good to begin with)

this just seems like someone who's constantly changing their opinion? which FL did like, every two pages as town in the only game I played with him? do you really think that this is conclusive evidence?

If that's not scummy for FL then what is? How would scum!him play this differently?

rather than what he *would* do, there are things that like, competent scum *don't really do* often because it's just tanking their image unnecessarily

specifically FL, who is proud of his self-perceived ability to play as scum

it's certainly not impossible this is part of some weird level 3 wifom pocket on players like me who have seen town!him do this but I'm willing to look for horses when hear hoofbeats, not zebras

im more extreme than ABR here because my opinion is that the "fakehammer" was not NAI, it was town!indicative mostly for this reason

[innocentvillager]

It's very tiring to debate ABR because he consistently brings up theories that are presented as conclusive evidence, and just the fact that you're arguing against him means he can argue that you implicitly agree to his flawed premise just by entertaining and humoring the thought.

it's ok norway! i will whiteknight and defend you from the mean abr!

Is that sarcasm? I can defend myself just fine.

I can deathtunnel you too if you'd prefer that, certainly wouldn't be the first time I've done that

[innocentvillager]

I have an interesting question. If you town read both Norway and I (we are both scumreading Boon) and you are a "POE" player. Why are you so against the Boon elimination?

i don't think people are as good at reading others as they think they are especially D1 and I independently TR flavor

even when I say you guys are like my top tier TRs, im still only like, 85-90% that you are town, it would hypocritical to assume that my own reads are the shit (which they are certainly not)

[innocentvillager]

the fact that you have an incorrect scumread on me also doesn't help, but it's not like, a huge factor

[innocentvillager]

the fact that you have an incorrect scumread on me also doesn't help, but it's not like, a huge factor

ok, look guy. ppl are seemingly town reading you for your early questioning of Guil but I thought it was null @ best and pretty useless. You then went inactive for stretch of time. Then you kinda magically have scum reads on ulmaut and Glitch wich you never mentioned which just so happen to coincide with an ABR POE. FMPOV you have like 0 scumhunting and that just rings like not real towny to me. The "but I'm a POE player!" kinda makes me think of Titus/Boon type scum play that argue early game uselessness b/c they are "VCA/late game players" respectively.

lol, im not asking you to townread me nor do i think it's like crazy that you're not

literally all i was trying to say is the fact that you are scumreading me when I know I am town makes me trust your reads this game just like, a little bit less, shouldn't have even said it tbh lol sorry

i am neither a VCA player nor a late game player

i townread Flavor, so I am defending him, I have eliminated him from my current scumpool with my process, also known as PoE

pedit: ill keep that in mind ABR, i haven't played with a lot of you before

[innocentvillager]

lol, with this argument we should just eliminate people who claim VT (and by your metric isn't "very good"). And yes, claiming VT at this point in the game even by itself is kind of a massive towntell, because VTs will almost always claim VT, scum will usually claim PR (not saying they don't claim VT, but, conditional probability etc etc)

I also feel like this is a misrepresentation of my argument. I'm not arguing lynch all VTs I'm saying that eliminating

THIS

scummy VT claim is a good play today.

sure

I just want to emphasize that I don't feel like the "VT" part matters that much

specifically, my viewpoint is simply that:

when the wagonee claims PR, they are more likely to be scum, but if we're wrong and miselim them, there's a bigger loss to be had
conversely, when the wagonee claims VT, they are less likely to be scum, but if we're wrong and miselim them, there's a smaller loss to be had

don't want to turn this into theory discussion though

[innocentvillager]

i am neither a VCA player nor a late game player

I know but arguing that you are a POE player is very very similar, no?

What's your current POE?

{TheDuke, DGB, muh, may, non, Umlaut, Glitch}

[innocentvillager]

im aware and i don't love that this is mostly just the people who haven't been posting much, but uh, it's good enough for D1

[innocentvillager]

like I just feel like his whole vt claim is so he can argue that he wouldn't claim VT as scum.

i mean, that is essentially the only reason why scum would ever claim VT on d1

and of course, if he is VT he just claims VT so

the risk/reward thing is just appealing to you because you think the reward is so high, specifically you think P(prententious scum) is significantly higher than 25%

that is the assumption that i disagree with, and most people off the wagon would as well

[innocentvillager]

I mean I know you said that you aren't in love with it but you HAVE to think you are wrong somewhere right?

of course i'm wrong! what's the chance that i got all 4 scum in this lurker pool on d1? like, very very small

[innocentvillager]

but is it really?

I know its d1 and there's no flips and no info but the whole scum reading all the lurkers and town reading all the actives seems pretty bonkers to me.

fine, it's not good enough for d1, im just being lazy

im not arguing my reads are like great

im simply stating my points of view, how i feel about them, and any supporting reasoning i can think of

you can evaluate as you like

[innocentvillager]

@IV
I agree with Nero's point, i believe you're making a mistake with this "let Flavour live until D3 and eliminate lurkers" stance.
I don't think you're necessarily scum for it, just wrong.

well, if i completely nullread him I wouldn't be saying that

he is one of my higher tier TRs at the moment, so that's why im saying that

you scumread him, so that's where we disagree

{TheDuke, DGB, muh, may, non, Umlaut, Glitch}

I mean technically it's possible that all 4 scum could be here but ummmm I just kinda think that's silly.

Also if muh was in your POE why did you never join there?

i totally agree

i was meh on muh, if a wagon formed there again i wouldn't mind joining it at all

think i thought umlaut was worth somewhat more pursuing at the time, but that wagon died down like super quickly which still makes me go ehhhhh

[innocentvillager]

It's way more important to get rid of active scum than flaking/non-active players that can be scum. As they have very little influence and will likely be the elimination at some point anyway if we don't hit scum until then.

I agree completely. Let's start with you.

Dude, just stop.
You sound so childish.

lol i thought it was pretty funny Norway

[innocentvillager]

Who is scum, ABR?

Norwee and IV's POE.

uh, except for muh right, he's in my PoE too

[innocentvillager]

if i had to pick one active player i think im most likely to be wrong on, it would be like GE

i read through my notes again and uh, it just looks like he's solving a lot and reevaluating that's really the only thing I had, which is fakeable by good scum. idk how good he is at scum

[innocentvillager]

is it getting toxic? i didn't get that vibe, even ABR's push on Norway just seems aggressive, nothing else

[innocentvillager]

it's definitely the avi but i get a very Wake88 vibe from ABR lol

[innocentvillager]

but I am a far better player

why do i get the feeling he would say this too

IV this is like what you did in lovers mafia. It's toxic as fuck and i despise it.

I'm sorry Norway, especially given you feel this way, I won't do that again, not that I was planning on it

[innocentvillager]

also i think in general "not making sense" is more likely to be playstyle clash than actual scum

if someone doesn't make sense to me, more often than not it's town but I'm willing to assume it's actually NAI bc wifom etc etc

e.g. from this game guillotina

I think I'm understanding the IV SRs, not sure if I agree on the read but he seems very wishy-washy.

I’m told that my towngame likes to sit on a lot of fences so yeah I can come off that way I guess

Pedit: woah

[innocentvillager]

t is very presumptuous to say that all 4 scum are in that list. If that was true, then say goodbye to your hopes of winning the lottery cause you just used all your luck on this one.

lmao I’m fuckin dead

[innocentvillager]

if i had to pick one active player i think im most likely to be wrong on, it would be like GE

i read through my notes again and uh, it just looks like he's solving a lot and reevaluating that's really the only thing I had, which is fakeable by good scum. idk how good he is at scum

That seems like a pretty damn wrong interpretation of my play at this point. Does nothing about my Boon push matter at all to how you read me? I feel like that's probably the biggest town thing I've done this game.

it’s a wrong interpretation that you’ve been solving a lot and reevaluating?

also, this was all pre boon stuff

I think I mostly just forgot why I was TRing you

I just skimmed your boon push and fine, it looks kind of towny

[innocentvillager]

The reason I'm wanting to elim in my current pool (muh, boon, guillo) is based on the monty hall problem. What happens if we switch off the VT/scum (the car in a sense) to a town PR (the goat)? I understand the application is a bit shaky given where the revealed information lies but imo it makes sense if you think about it.

? I don’t know if this will become relevant later but this makes no sense to me. You don’t have to explain if you don’t want to

I understand what Monty hall is fwiw

[innocentvillager]

It's kinda wrong by omission, if that's even a thing? The fact stated are true but it misses part of the picture. The thing about not having read all my stuff makes sense, and though I thought it might have been suspect the fact you called yourself on it so quickly makes me think it's not really indicative, just a thing that happened, though I'm concerned about you missing that despite seeming caught up.

when i say i skimmed the 25 pages of boon flailing and you guys grilled him, i really mean i skimmed it

i wasn't exactly trying to sort every single post moreso than to just figure out what was going on

[innocentvillager]

it was already kind of obvious to me, but Nero bringing it up again does make me worry a bit about which of the active slots I TR are wrong, so at some point im going to have to cycle through each of them to have a second, third look, etc.

at some point

[innocentvillager]

I still think flavor is town but uh, given that I haven’t put as much effort as my townreads who somehow vehemently believe he is scum, I won’t stand in the way

going on record here that I think he flips green though, let’s see if I’m right or not

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: non I’ll hop on this wagon for now at least

[innocentvillager]

ABR are 3rd parties allowed in a normal still? I feel like they were not allowed

Pedit: voting for the Non Imh guy

[innocentvillager]

lol

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Glitch

i agree with a lot of what you said nero

[innocentvillager]

idk about NPOM specifically but I agree that Flavor is one of those wagons that scum is more likely to be off than on

[innocentvillager]

i completely forgot why i townleaned NPOM even on an ISO skim

i think im totally fine wagoning there aorn

[innocentvillager]

ABR the reason I agree that scum might be more likely to be off than on (not that it's strongly weighted that way necessarily, if even at all, but probably not in the other direction) is that it's pretty easy to stay off the wagon, WK and look "good" when the whole town already wants to policy something

im just using my elim as an example in Mini 2163, the whole town wanted to elim me because they thought I threadslipped, 0/3 scum ended up on that wagon. obviously just one example but whatever

[innocentvillager]

oooh thats a spicy take now im curious

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Glitch

i agree with a lot of what you said nero

Really? It made zero sense, tell me what you agree with.

i did mention what i agreed with

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Nero Cain welp guess I was wrong on this slot

[innocentvillager]

ABR the reason I agree that scum might be more likely to be off than on (not that it's strongly weighted that way necessarily, if even at all, but probably not in the other direction) is that it's pretty easy to stay off the wagon, WK and look "good" when the whole town already wants to policy something

im just using my elim as an example in Mini 2163, the whole town wanted to elim me because they thought I threadslipped, 0/3 scum ended up on that wagon. obviously just one example but whatever

dgb i also talked more about that in my next post lol

[innocentvillager]

wp nero i really believed you were obvtown

[innocentvillager]

And you agreed with Nero!scum that we should narrow down the yeet pool based on this theory?

just because I agree that scum are at least as likely to do X (be off wagon) as Y (on wagon) doesn't mean I think we should just purely look at everyone who did X as an elim pool

[innocentvillager]

wp nero i really believed you were obvtown

Your entire iso is, shall we say, not re-assuring.

can you start talking about your reads and why you believe them then?

[innocentvillager]

to me pretentious was very likely town to me because i think it was asinine for scum!him to do whatever he did and he is at least reasonably okay at scum to not do that

[innocentvillager]

Where are you Nero??

Come here to be judged!

probably freaking out in the scum pt lol, that’s what I’d be doing

Pedit: no he is an alt with no post history

[innocentvillager]

to be clear, in normals there is no chance of a guilty cop check on an innocent unless they are miller right? So given guil is truthful and Nero is not Miller, he is CONFIRMED scum?

[innocentvillager]

to be clear, in normals there is no chance of a guilty cop check on an innocent unless they are miller right? So given guil is truthful and Nero is not Miller, he is CONFIRMED scum?

If Nero was Miller the right mechanical play was to claim at start of Day 1, which he didn't.

Also, I never said that my check was on him or not, I only said that I got a redcheck and that redcheck was in the list I posted, did you just slip up?

VOTE: InnocentVillager

Now, you gotta tell me why did you "laugh" at the start of Day 2. Did you expect me turn up dead or something?

Also, tell me why you really tried to push an ascetic claim when it was policy to to do so?

oh, i just kind of assumed, as did everyone else i thought, and you literally voted him as you outted the redcheck

idk, it's just an exclamation of something, why you gotta read into it

the pretentious eod stuff was pretty "lol", so was the nightkill and flipping VT, was curious as to who was gonna flip

ive given my reasons multiple times on why i questioned you at the beginning

[innocentvillager]

UNVOTE: Nero Cain whatever, my vote is spiritually on whoever you redchecked idc who

[innocentvillager]

Did you expect me turn up dead or something?

also if you think my "lol" in-thread was scum!indicative for this reason you are out of your mind lmao

[innocentvillager]

if you tell us who you redchecked we could probably hunt easier though? im not sure what your whole plan is with when you are going to claim it but you are going to have to claim it at some point

[innocentvillager]

tgp are you caught up with the game? your last post was like halfway through the game, 50 pages ago

[innocentvillager]

tgp are you caught up with the game? your last post was like halfway through the game, 50 pages ago

Not too much happened since page 50 to be fair

lmao you right

but you also, uh, would have to skim through the last 50 pages to know that

[innocentvillager]

im pretty sure i know what's going on but let's see if im right, i put my hypothesis in my notes

[innocentvillager]

Actually fuck off. Our friendship is over.

i hate to be that guy, but like, this seems like outside of scum!emotional scumrange, im inclined to hard TR gamma for it

[innocentvillager]

what the fuck why did this slot already get hammered

[innocentvillager]

Guil, what was the EXACT NAME OF YOUR REAL ROLE

[innocentvillager]

anyway, I thought the whole thing was some big fakeclaim and that he didn't actually have a red check

literally none of it makes sense from scum though and if he proposed anything like this to the scum PT i don't know how he doesn't get castrated for it

i don't understand why he has stuck to this whole story and then outted a redcheck on Nero

I don't believe he was scum but I don't believe the claim at all, what the fuck

[innocentvillager]

i wasn't here for the whole fiasco up to the hammer so im emotionally a little behind

yes he's hammered and that's done, so we just patiently wait for the flip

im just, confused as fuck, that's all, I don't have your conviction that he's scum

i still maintain that he fakeclaimed and that he's town but for what purpose god knows

[innocentvillager]

wait what in the fuck

[innocentvillager]

why the fuck did nero die? i was about to flashwagon them

can someone help make sense of this?

[innocentvillager]

i think guillotina must've went for some crazy gambit praying that nero was scum

kind of throwing tbh...

there is no way scum kills nero right? unless they thought he was SK?

[innocentvillager]

if guillotina tracked nero, who is confirmed pure VT, in a normal, there is NO WAY that they could've gotten a result that was "Nero visited X"

just want to make sure im understanding this

so the redcheck was, completely faked as well, whether nero was checked or not

[innocentvillager]

from scum's POV, nero is the SK

that's the only thing i could possibly be thinking as scum going into night 2 with the flip

SK!Nero is getting flashwagoned the next day, not one of us

so we kill nero because... we're paranoid they're going to kill one of us? maybe if glitch is scum (i think one of his most recent scumspect?) but what do they even have to gain at this point, if they're just getting flashwagoned

idk, doesn't really make much sense, i just let town flash nero tomorrow

they probably hit someone else and nero got vigged or SK'd

if there's an SK out there, ftpov nero is scum

but why does the SK kill nero, when town is obviously going to hang them tomorrow anyway

so... nero was vigged

[innocentvillager]

this setup is probably 4/13 with a town vig in there then? with no SK because there's probably a town vig

we don't know if Norway was vigged or scum hit, but somehow either one of the following happened on d1:

the vig kill N1 wasn't allowed to happen by some gate
vig kill somehow didn't kill, scum shot norway
scum kill somehow didn't kill, vig shot norway (unlikely)

[innocentvillager]

i bet scum confused as fuck in the PT rn

probably two surprises for them here: 1) their kill didn't go through 2) Nero flipped town lel

[innocentvillager]

if guillotina tracked nero, who is confirmed pure VT, in a normal, there is NO WAY that they could've gotten a result that was "Nero visited X"

just want to make sure im understanding this

so the redcheck was, completely faked as well, whether nero was checked or not

We were witnesses to the absolute worst play in all of mafia history.

An actual, really powerful town role faking a tracking result on a vanilla townie.

I've seen everything now.

that is fucking hilarious coming from you with a 2005 join date

[innocentvillager]

Is it possible the scum kill was randomized if no action was submitted?

feel like if no kill was submitted it would just be that... scum doesn't kill

pretty sure that's what it is in newbies at least

nothing in the rules says that scum "has to kill" every night so i would assume not, unless this is a rule that is privately told to scum

[innocentvillager]

I definitely believe that they are ascetic, I would like,

maybe bet the game on it

I don’t know if have a strong opinion on their a l i g n m e n t specifically gth town tho

i don't even feel bad for being wrong that he was ascetic after all that tbh

[innocentvillager]

all of and only the hyperposters have died so far

not sure if that's a curse or a blessing or both tbh

anyway let's wait for people to weigh in i guess

[innocentvillager]

The kill might make a little sense if scum were worried Nero had a powerful role

uhh

Nero claimed VT

don't think anyone would think he fakeclaims there as town after being hard guiltied

did you forget he claimed VT or are you taking that into account?

[innocentvillager]

i still feel like scum thought he was SK last night, and that guil saw nero visiting guil which was essentially a guilty

[innocentvillager]

gdi umlaut don't make me townread you for that -_-

last night i was pretty sure Guil tracked Nero and saw Nero visited Guil, that was the ONLY possible explanation (and it's hard to imagine that's not the hypothesis that 3-probably 4 scum put together over the night)

little did i know...

and the explanation you're probably looking for here is that Guil was so certain that Nero was scum they didn't even feel the need to track them. Or they tracked them, got no visit and went "oh but he's still scum". Then of course the arrogance and recklessness to fake the guilty

[innocentvillager]

here's some stuff i want to mull over at some point, just sharing in case anyone else thinks this is/isn't a useful exercise

Spoiler: stuff i might try to think about

My redcheck is in this group and I strongly believe that his partners could be in this group too

Nero Cain
Gamma Emerald
Taylor Swift slot
InnocentVillager
Umlaut
ABR (not as likely but there are a few things that don't match)

1. what was scum thinking about this point?
2. how do they want to interact with the thread at this point?
3. how do they want to position around Nero and Guil, given that they know neither are scum?
4. who actually ended up doing what (between here and next point)?
5. is this analysis useful, if so, who does it point to?

So, I've got a big problem with Guillotina's claim and it seems almost so obvious that I feel like I must be missing something here since everyone else believes it.

HARDCLAIM!!! I'M A 2-SHOT ALIGNMENT COP WITH A BULLETPROOF VEST!!! THE BULLETPROOF VEST WAS USED LAST NIGHT AS SOMEONE TARGETED ME!

I gambled claiming an ascetic modifier counting on scum's arrogance to not NK me just because I was no PR but it didn't work as it seems.

THIS ALSO MEANS THAT THEY GOTTA BE A COUPLE OF VIGILANTES OUT THERE!

I am not aware of any normal role that would know if they were targeted for a kill at night but survived. Under Normal rules, a 1-Shot Bulletproof shouldn't be informed if they were shot at.

Another question:

My redcheck is in this group

and I strongly believe that his partners could be in this group too

Nero Cain
Gamma Emerald
Taylor Swift slot
InnocentVillager
Umlaut
ABR (not as likely but there are a few things that don't match)

Let's hunt scum!

If you targeted someone and therefore knew they were guilty, why would you give us a list like this? If you out and tell us who is guilty, that makes sense. If you wait until later today to out, so that you can see how the day proceeds naturally and how wagons form, that makes sense. But what sense does it make to say "I checked one of these six people"? Including putting one and saying they're

not as likely

... that pretty much gives away that ABR wasn't your target. What even is this claim?

Why do you wanna find out if I still have a BPV?

I lied, I still have it. I wanted to lure mafia into wasting their NK on me but I guess this works too.

My bulletproof vest will work against one attack, if scum wants me out, they'll have to destroy the BPV first.

Do you want a red check claimed now Umlaut? if you are town you'd see that NOT revealing it now is the best play. As of now, I know who is the wolf and they don't know who I checked and right now they don't know what strategy to form and I'll keep it that way. Their only play to not knowing is to try to discredit me like they tried to discredit Pretentious!

I gave you a list like this because that is the list of people I suspect with incriminating ties to the redcheck and if I'm right, I want the wolves to feel despair with not knowing whom of them is outed. I don't believe I have all scum in that list, but I believe that I got at least two.

I will reveal who is the red check towards EoD, I will not let an unconfirmed player die instead of my red check. We are gonna milk this awesome situation for us until we are comfortable with our reads and then fade the outed wolf.

I'm gonna say this! Any push against me specially votes against will be looked upon as if you were scum. I'm a hardclaim cop!

same 5 questions at this point?

REDCHECK IS NERO CAIN

same 5 questions at this point?

[innocentvillager]

then for some reason mafia shot the VT the claimed guilty was on

you know this... how?

[innocentvillager]

I was kind hoping for more lurker content but uhh

I’ll get back this at some point

[innocentvillager]

Checking in. I have a work event this afternoon and into tonight and all day tomorrow. So I'll be able to do some reading come Sunday.

Anyone want to give me some cliffs notes?

this slot is likely to be town

[innocentvillager]

how tf is non imh still in this game

[innocentvillager]

Best as I can tell Non Imh is like this in all their games. I don't feel like going for a policy vote today when we've had 2 straight day phases that were basically trolled.

I know but what are we going to do? Let it coast to end game?

lmao imagine them at f3, with essentially the same ISO

[innocentvillager]

Lol