Mini Normal 2180 | Fake Peoples | Endgame

[midwaybear]

I was told to go post
VOTE: ABR

[midwaybear]

I don’t think I have seen anything alignment indicative from her. Is your read just based on her tone?

[midwaybear]

I still don't get why unwnd townreads Noraa.

[midwaybear]

i was about to ask that but midway beat me to it so instead, the first townlean of the game goes to midway!!

Would scum!Datisi say this? I don't think it serves him any value as scum here.

[midwaybear]

Interacting with people is how I get a sense of what people are thinking.

Who were you interacting with there?

[midwaybear]

tbh i don't think midwaybear has towntold in his first 5 posts, a bad sign for him

How do you even read me

[midwaybear]

why hasn't midway TRed me yet?

Are you serious about this? That was a completely different setting.

[midwaybear]

i dunno i expect when you're town to make it apparent really quickly

I don't think I'm an obv-town player. My recent playstyle is mostly NAI.

[midwaybear]

you had this eager beaver energy that seems to be missing here

That wasn't even the whole game, and none of my other towngames of recent are like that.

[midwaybear]

I don't think its really weird to expect a TR straight off the bat if the person has done it before

That was a marathon game! Dayphases were 15 or whatever minutes! It is not the same.

[midwaybear]

Where did he feel fake to you?

[midwaybear]

ABR seems a little less aggressive than I was expecting. I get that he is going hard against Cakez, but the wording in his posts doesn't really indicate belief.

[midwaybear]

So you've adapted your playstyle? Would you say you would be more fiery as scum here?

[midwaybear]

this game player list is like baby yoda man. i wanna hug each and every one of you. you are not scary. you make me happy.

So you would be taking a mellowed down approach regardless of alignment?

[midwaybear]

Wait... you seemed really aggressive as scum in Betrayal Mafia. I feel like the playerlist is relatively comparable. I'm not sure what to make of this because your mellow approach is different, but then your mindset doesn't make sense.

[midwaybear]

People seem way too eager to make reads to the point where I feel like accuracy is being compromised.

[midwaybear]

Gamma's catchup seems townie mostly because it stands out and doesn't look super good.

[midwaybear]

I highly doubt that you can read Noraa, her friendliness is NAI, she seems like she slip by right under your nose if you were an informed cop, and your chainsaw defense of your fake townread screams scum to me.

This feels like too much justification for voting me, but maybe you believe it. Not sure.

I like the way Shoshin is handling ABR here, but I don't know if I can townread it.

[midwaybear]

I think that you chose to behave this way because you want to be townread like mastina would for doing what you did and nothing else

If he really wanted to get cred, couldn't he have just not said he was copying someone else's playstyle?

BTW, fence sitting isn't scummy.

[midwaybear]

That took me a bit to process, but if he said that as a sort of buffer, then it's interesting that he decided to catch up that way in the first place.

[midwaybear]

Post whatever you want as long as it doesn't start to become hyperposting.

That's basically what I've been doing...

[midwaybear]

Datisi's posting yesterday seemed fake.
VOTE: Datisi

[midwaybear]

Sure, your opening posts read like you were on edge, and they just don't sit well with me.

[midwaybear]

Felt like you were trying to stream of consciousness post to get townread.

[midwaybear]

hm, i thought you were townleaning off one of my opening posts?

and /shrug, i always post like that.

Those were two disjoint things. I did not know that you normally post like that. Is this a reliable way to read you? There must be some differences.

[midwaybear]

How is your town playstyle different from your scum playstyle? This doesn't seem particularly hard to fake.

[midwaybear]

Oh shoot he changed his avatar.

[midwaybear]

Being easy to fake doesn't mean it's not how I play as town. I'm best sorted via BoP.

I don't want to sort people through BoP because sometimes reads will be good and other times not as much. Unless you're saying that you can nail scum 100%, this doesn't do much for me.

[midwaybear]

IV should not be expected to play like Not_Mafia.

[midwaybear]

You'll find that I catch multiple scum in every game

Every game huh. I'm going to hold you to this.

[midwaybear]

I'd suspect some number of scum are in the background right now if it is Shoshin. If Shoshin is town, I'm mostly going to be scanning the pile of people trying to stay off the wagon for flimsy reasons.

What's the difference between the two? I also don't really think the second reason is particularly valid.

[midwaybear]

I could hammer this btw.

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Shoshin
You got it

[midwaybear]

Scum have to make a quick decision on speed wagons. If Shoshin is town, they are more likely to stay off the wagon if it is town driven.

Why wouldn't scum be bussing Shoshin at this point? If she is town, I feel like there is going to more scum on the wagon. That's why I don't think people off wagon are necessarily scum.

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
want to talk about why you voted Shoshin

[midwaybear]

BTW, not sure why I'm being scumread here

[midwaybear]

I literally did not believe shoshin was scum.

Really now

[midwaybear]

probably because you're being scummy

Like what

[midwaybear]

idk what Noraa is doing right now.

[midwaybear]

like the response you just gave me

How is that scummy? I don't really believe a two word response makes you scumread me further.

[midwaybear]

midway why did you vote shoshin your limp onto the wagon was puuuuuureeeee traaaaaaaaaashhhhhhhhhh

Why was it pure trash?

[midwaybear]

ABR save me

[midwaybear]

I said I could hammer her. I wasn't townreading her yesterday and her behavior later on was hard to read.

[midwaybear]

lack of presence

lol are you serious? When have I ever had a presence in a game
VOTE: SirCakez

[midwaybear]

Scum ass response

Sure dude. Want to talk about why you decided to give "lack of presence" to scumread me?

[midwaybear]

He is lying.

[midwaybear]

That's not even a guilty

[midwaybear]

if i am scum, you have to believe like one of my buddies came up with it as a lol!last ditch effort or something

Aren't you in a bad spot? You admitted it yourself.

[midwaybear]

Hmm from a mech standpoint this makes IV look better. Unless scum really wanted to go all out which I can also see.

[midwaybear]

Ugh this is crazy, but it could be crazy in a good way. Cakez needs to claim. Cakez is likely not an investigative role due to his meh stance on me. Technically, ABR and IV would both be investigative, but their roles synergize so...

[midwaybear]

That's the opposite of what he is saying.

[midwaybear]

Why do you think me not having a presence was scummy?

[midwaybear]

Ok, can you get more specific? I don't think peta's ISO really shows presence(except when I tried to tryhard in the first 2 days of Smoke). I'm typically more laid back.

[midwaybear]

I tried to SAVE you in Xenoblade 2, and this is the thanks I get?

Will catch up later, but I'm hoping this is some sort of weird joke.

[midwaybear]

he was so obvtownie he got shot n1

lol that's not why I got shot, and I don't really play like that anymore

[midwaybear]

Almost like you're just straight up confbiasing at this point and using whatever you can to call me scummy. I'm not used to this, but I'll deal.

[midwaybear]

@Midway, how did you go from

I don't think the quotes you pulled really show a 180. Sure, I went from a light townread to suspicion, but the reasons weren't really related. I just thought that his early posting was quite exaggerated until Datisi told me that it was normal for him. I'm not sure how/why he wanted me to follow up.

[midwaybear]

i remember seeing scum!koba put a veto on you in chosen mafia

anyway you still haven't answered my question of what are your reads?

I read the scum PT, and koba vetoed me because they would feel bad pushing me or something. Idk, but I'm not sure if that was because they think I could obv town and stuff, but I've mostly dropped that play in games.

I haven't really been thinking of whole game reads, and I'm trying to think about the current claims. Both ABR and Cakez are very scummy while IV is sorta just floating around. I'm not sure what to make of that. Outside of these claims I'm townreading Noraa and petapan.

[midwaybear]

ooooooh spicey
tell me more

Well, I was nightkilled because joqiza had that theory that I was the cop. Ring a bell?
I'm not sure how I should be reading you based off that, but your arguments are starting to get reachy.

[midwaybear]

Im surprised.
Didn't you SR me a while ago or was that peta?

I don't remember, but even so, my reads are pretty fluid early on until I can lock onto some reads I feel good about.

[midwaybear]

I don't have a hard stance on you yet.

[midwaybear]

That’s not how you talk someone out of scum reading you.

[midwaybear]

it's a random pop in after 5 hours of not posting that doesn't progress the game at all

interested in any and all takes regarding that

ok, so why would I make that post as scum?

[midwaybear]

You seem pretty natural and your stances seem ok

[midwaybear]

I mean that I don't dislike any of them.

[midwaybear]

meh, like...trying not to let AtE roll me over anymore and affect my decision-making, because i always get it wrong determining whether it's real or fake, but...i'm not sure nora lights her house on fire for no reason as scum here.

Why are you seemingly ignoring Cakez ATE compared to Noraa? Is there a difference to you? I'm agreeing with the general sentiment here though.

[midwaybear]

In general, I feel like his stances have been likely to come from town. I can look for specifics.

[midwaybear]

Well, momentum did seem to be shifting towards Noraa. I think you made some good observations specifically in your catch up and I think I'm townreading your indecisive attitude. I feel like you would try to take more control as scum.

[midwaybear]

Also, did anyone else find Ico's opening a little weird? It seemed like he was exaggerating how much he missed, but I'm not sure.

[midwaybear]

Also, I like his mechanics confusion. It didn't seem fake to me, and he would probably be more understanding as mafia.

[midwaybear]

yeah i don't see abr faking a role like that, none of the oldies would know to do it

This is a good read by him and fits in with his confusion.

[midwaybear]

That doesn't really change anything for me?

[midwaybear]

Sure, I’m still town reading the Dunnstral slot, but it’s more tentative. I can’t read ATE very well.

[midwaybear]

I half expected to get vig shot so didn't read much

We haven't seen a vig yet...why'd you expect that?

Maybe just because perception of his slot EoD wasn't too hot.

Sure, I’m still town reading the Dunnstral slot, but it’s more tentative. I can’t read ATE very well.

Thoughts on who is scum now that we have seen Cakez flip?

I'm townreading Dunn and peta. I'm very tentatively calling ABR and IV town with IV above ABR in terms of confidence. I'm working in the pool of {VPB, DV, Ico, Gamma}.

[midwaybear]

Based on mechanics, I don't think that they necessarily look bad. I think a mass claim would be a solid idea today. My tentative reads are more based off of things I don't think they would pursue as scum. First of all, ABR blowing up at IV in the middle of the day looked genuine and unlikely to be s/s. I also think ABR hard pushing Cakez is a really interesting play as scum. The thing in the middle where he backed down for a bit seemed genuine, and I feel like he would maintain an aggro mentality as scum? IV is definitely more confident then ABR. I don't think IV would have a fun time playing so self aware, and I think he genuinely is out of his scum range. Also, I don't think he publicly calls Cakez as gut town. I would expect scum to go with gut scum, and I do think town indecision is a thing.

[midwaybear]

Spoiler:

Datisi help. I'm hesitating. I don't want to lose friends

what should I do

It's morally wrong to dangle people on the precipice like this for so long and really demotivating and frustrating. You are really stalling this game for no good reason. Help me make a decision and we will end this toxic day.

but... you have the speedrunner tag for best marathon player... this is nothing

Mostly this string of posts which I think came before IV's fake hammer. I don't really think it's necessary for him to say this as scum when he can just call out Cakez for ATEing and continue to aggressively push. There was also a similar moment with Noraa, but I don't find that as AI.

[midwaybear]

I've never played with Albert as scum before, so I'm wondering if you've seen anything similar.

[midwaybear]

That's fair. I guess I would have just found him continuously pushing Cakez to be more scummy than what he did here. Now, I'm seeing his posts after the hammer and they seem pretty genuine.

VOTE: Cakez

Ok... this is so high stakes i dont want to be wrong

Although voting Cakez was not great, I understand the feeling of dedicating so much to a push that it almost clouds your judgement. I might be overshooting how AI these posts are, but for some reason I really want to townread ABR here.

[midwaybear]

I dunno maybe there is a scum roleblocker with a backup town roleblocker. Well, if ABR, IV, and Cakez are all town, scum definitely have some ability that allows them to mitigate any investigative effects.
Or they are just trying to frame him.

[midwaybear]

Thoughts on order?

Personally, maybe something like DV-Gamma-Ico-VPB-dunn-peta-me.

[midwaybear]

I'm pretty sure IV has been faking his posts for some reason. As to why, I'm not really sure. I don't think it's scummy though.

[midwaybear]

Yes, because it is very obvious. I remember him doing something similar in 2160 where he faked a scumslip for no reason. I feel like this is just town!IV trying to have some fun, and I don't think it is necessary for him to do as scum.
pedit: ??

[midwaybear]

I can see IV as scum trolling initially, but I don't think he ever continues the act for this long given that everyone was scumreading him.

[midwaybear]

No, he was town trolling.
Also, why are we letting VPB dictate claiming order? I don't necessarily think it's that important, but I'm wondering why people are townreading him. I find his posts merely pleasant, but there's nothing that is townie.

[midwaybear]

Oh, I mean 2163 where he fake scumslipped. Yeah, he scumclaimed initially in 2160, but he stopped doing that after a bit. I also don't think he would be bold enough to do such a thing after admitting to it.

[midwaybear]

interesting
I'm VT(again)

[midwaybear]

I think he is talking about the video game? I'm not sure if there is a mafia game.

[midwaybear]

ABR looks like he has given up.

[midwaybear]

ABR, Gamma, DV

[midwaybear]

I have a theory that ABR's last two buddies are not being suspected, but that is more gut based. Your call is as good as mine.

[midwaybear]

It is mostly based off of him saccing today. Perhaps the scum plan was to have ABR cause chaos as long as he could, and then the remaining members clean things up. I'll probably look into this more.

[midwaybear]

I think they're a little obvious as scum now that I think of it, so more likely to be town here

Thanks Dunnstral

[midwaybear]

You've never even explained why you found my posts scummy. I don't think you're able to read me super well anyways.

[midwaybear]

I don't remember you ever explaining beyond "it just is", and the last time we were both town well...

[midwaybear]

Oh I forgot Xenoblade. I was thinking of SFA, but I do remember you townreading me. I can see how the content of my posts looked sparse, but I was making reads and all of that. This game went at an unnatural pace, so I feel like you also have to take that into consideration. I'm also skeptical of you scumreading me for asking you why you were doing so. That seemed too aggro.

[midwaybear]

Looks like ABR isn't conf scum?

[midwaybear]

Yeah, I'm not saying he is town, but the whole friendly neighbor fiasco apparently was real?

[midwaybear]

I pretty much agree with the sentiment in 2384

[midwaybear]

I don't think this is a similar situation?

[midwaybear]

My game hasn't changed much from Illicit substances. I'm town here because I probably would have voted ABR by now regardless of his alignment.

[midwaybear]

I'm not really obvtown. It's just that it is obvious when I am scum.

[midwaybear]

I'm not sure what to do and deadline seems to be near. I'd prefer to hit scum today.

[midwaybear]

That would probably be my solve if ABR is town. But that is what I'm conflicted on.
DV seems obviously scummy at this point. We could wagon him, but I also want to feel good on my read of ABR.

[midwaybear]

If we have a POE of 4, isn't the game solved at this point?

[midwaybear]

I actually don't think scum have needed to control the game at all.

[midwaybear]

Man, I think DV is scum, but I really hope I'm not getting fooled by the bigger fish. Regardless,
VOTE: DV
LET'S GO

[midwaybear]

Time to clutch up I guess.

[midwaybear]

I'm pretty sure DV just flips red.

[midwaybear]

He has been pushing scum agenda whole game, and no one townreads him

[midwaybear]

The bottom of his reads have been mostly town like Dunn pointed out. His vote on ABR was very bad.
I think he is being bussed by his buddies who are probably Gamma, Ico. DV should go first though.

[midwaybear]

Also, having more PRs than VTs is sorta crazy.

[midwaybear]

Gamma isn't even trying to look townie anymore.

[midwaybear]

Can you make your scum theater more convincing?

[midwaybear]

It seems like Gamma and DV are putting it all on the table today and their contingency plan is f3 with me vs Ico.

[midwaybear]

what's this supposed to mean, exactly?

I mean, it seems pretty clear that they are just doing some funny fake interactions.
DV: Why do you townread me?
Gamma: Yadda yadda
DV: Seems legit, let's get midway
Gamma: OK

[midwaybear]

doing that iso i should have been doing...midway, was there ever an explanation for why you townread noraa?

I don't remember, but her anger seemed genuine. Dunn has been ok.

[midwaybear]

you read her as town before she got angry, though. and it seems a fairly shallow read to be holding onto at lylo.

I know that my read on Dunn is not that good, but his actions don't really seem to tilt me one way or the other. I also think if you find a solid reason to townread someone, you can keep it. Noraa's anger seemed real, and if I also had other reasons to townread her, then I don't have any reason to feel too unconfident about Dunn here.

[midwaybear]

you think i'm gonna be bussing both of my teammates here, instead of working on a town flip and just win the game in scum!Ico world?

Your teammates are working on the town flip, and you are the backup plan.

[midwaybear]

idk what to really say or do at this point. I'm ready to vote.

[midwaybear]

Probably Gamma given that he seems to be the widely scumread one now

[midwaybear]

Mmm ok. I'm still leaning towards Gamma, but I'll skim through ISOs

[midwaybear]

Ahhh

[midwaybear]

I think I vote gamma here most of the time, but I want to be more sure

[midwaybear]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
Good luck

[midwaybear]

i'm sorry everyone

Why?

[midwaybear]

Huh

[midwaybear]

Thanks for the carry

[midwaybear]

I blocked scum every night and it had zero effect on the game.

This was pretty crazy

[midwaybear]

I don’t have access to the dead thread?