Large Normal 230 - Game Over

[Umlaut]

Hey there, skimmed the first half of the game or so last night. Calling Guillotina somewhat town for the early claim.

VOTE: Glitch

Blatantly trying to fish for hard info about IV's role ("guyz why aren't we talking about that claim more").

(More from me in a few hours hopefully when I have time to read)

[Umlaut]

I'm trying to go back and read everything but it's hard, because I'm lazy (and also distracted).

Thoughts on the very first couple of pages:

• Literally everyone who took IV's doc "claim" seriously enough even to rebut it is a ridiculous person
  
• Guillotina is actually pretty strongly town, not just slightly; if they really are new then drawing attention with a claim like that so early is a strongly pro-town move that I don't see scum emulating
  
• IV is likewise pretty town
  
• Gamma somewhat town
  
• NPOM is completely unreadable
  
• Got some townpings from TGP's entrance even though I disagreed with their reasoning on voting Guil
  
• Nero's entrance was not great and neither was ABR's (the latter is maybe worse)
  
• Could take or leave Tay Tay, muh

This is very minimal and incomplete, and I'm not sure I'm ever going to do all the catchup reading, so I'll probably just start from later in the thread when I have time to really sink my teeth into this. Right now I have a job interview coming up in an hour so I'm going to just sit here and panic while doing basically nothing to prepare, wish me luck!

[Umlaut]

Actually I don't really like how Guillotina is now describing

his own

early claim as impossible to come from scum, it's a level of self-consciousness that makes me question how sure I can be of that read.

[Umlaut]

Because your first post reads like an RVS post when there were already Things happening and because there was nothing wrong with IV's line of questioning in the first place and you kept remarking on it even after he made it pretty clear what he was doing.

[Umlaut]

This is going to be one of those games where I never ever catch up, I can tell already.

this is worse than nooby arrogance. this is a troll alt.

Yeah, it really does feel like that. I guess they could just be outright lying about being an alt (oh my gosh,

lying

in a game of Mafia, what won't some people sink to)

Okay. After looking through, I have an observation:
Guil's claim by itself seems town-y, but some of their behaviour around that claim seems odd (saying they checked the wiki after making the claim, asking PRs to visit them to prove they are ascetic, etc), so I would read them as ascetic scum.

(But honestly I think adopting such a brash tone is probably a towntell if anything)

Its pretty funny how guill left and said they would iso duke and its been 5mins and duke has 2 posts

I like this observation

I like writing big words

Cool. I don't understand why you're so certain the Mafia are going to kill you, it doesn't make any sense. You yourself pointed out you're like the opposite of a PR,

and

you're a massive distraction to town to boot. Speaking for myself, if I'm scum I never ever shoot you except possibly in endgame.

yeah that also bothers me
like he figures the claim is supposed to help him now, despite iirc not leaning into it at all earlier
there's a cognitive dissonance between the reality of him being at risk of a lim rn and him suggesting scum are gonna nk him because they think he is a threat
if scum thought he was a threat they'd push to lim him rn no? But guillo isn't pressing that because he's scum and knows that isn't the case. Seems like a pretty textbook case of of scum goo imo

I don't really see the scum motivation in saying "Scum will definitely kill me at night," in the long run it only leaves you having to explain why you weren't killed at night.

muh316-felt early gul vote was go with the flow and scummy. thought his reaction and justification for this reaction was scummy

So you thought my reasoning for the vote was scummy. My reason was that Guillotina was a noob pretending to be experienced.

In response to Guillotina you said the same thing. So how exactly is my reason scummy when you just agreed with what I said.

this is nooby hubris. i think.

Why me = fry me


I haven't the slightest idea what the VC is right now, what's muh at?

[Umlaut]

Agree with Gamma.
It just seems to me like they’re way overplaying their card here.
It’s like they rolled ascetic goon and everyone in scum PT told him to claim now and afterwards he’s forgot scum hunting and mostly just focus on posturing about their claim in an vicious cycle.

I just don't believe anyone is really this bad at Mafia.

[Umlaut]

Agree with Gamma.
It just seems to me like they’re way overplaying their card here.
It’s like they rolled ascetic goon and everyone in scum PT told him to claim now and afterwards he’s forgot scum hunting and mostly just focus on posturing about their claim in an vicious cycle.

I just don't believe anyone is really this bad at Mafia.

hey nice to meet you

Same!

[Umlaut]

Tbh that's a better criterion than it has any right to be.

[Umlaut]

I just don't believe anyone is really this bad at Mafia.

Who is this referring to? What’s the implication?

I think your and Norwegian's scumread of Guillotina requires him to be a complete dumbass who thinks just shouting "I'M TOWN AND ALSO A VERY STABLE GENIUS" and drawing a ton of attention to himself is a good way to play, not in any sort of sophisticated double-bluffing way but in a pure level-zero not-knowing-how-to-hide way. It's not impossible but I don't really think it's the case.

[Umlaut]

I'm digging the number of oldbies in this game.

Hey there DG, we've never played together before but I've definitely heard of you.

[Umlaut]

I just think we should all really take a long hard look at ourselves instead of immediately pointing the finger.

I took a long hard look at myself and I've concluded I'm town!

Everyone else go take a long hard look at your role PM and tell us what it says about your alignment.

I 100% expect to be eliminated for this mistake, but to be clear I did iso Guillotina last night, town read the slot, and had forgotten all about it this morning.

I find this pretty believable, and I think just going "Oops, unvote" instead of trying to shoehorn in some sort of why-I-changed-my-mind in response to the questioning is a towntell.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: muh

Glitch's ISO is pretty hit-or-miss but his most recent posts feel like he's really trying to be active despite real-world time constraints, rather than leaning on them as an excuse not to be.

[Umlaut]

(Speaking for myself, I would never

lie

about IRL stuff but I would have no problem

taking advantage

of it... like, if I really do have a lot going on but I also just think lurking is in my best interest I might lurk and say "sorry, I have a lot going on" as opposed to trying to find time to write something. It seems like Glitch is doing the latter which is good)

[Umlaut]

I find this pretty believable, and I think just going "Oops, unvote" instead of trying to shoehorn in some sort of why-I-changed-my-mind in response to the questioning is a towntell.

Agreed, i think it's pretty townie for them to genuinely explain that they made an mistake.

they can like make this mistake as scum too

I believe they made the mistake, im not sure how it’s necessarily AI, although I’ll admit that my first reaction was to think it’s a townie reaction.

It's AI because scum are more concerned with appearing self-consistent, and therefore more likely to try and cover up that there was any contradiction in what they wrote.

[Umlaut]

Who do you think muh's scumbuddies are?

Why are you asking me for pre-flip associatives?

I don't know who his buddies are. I don't even know if he's scum.

[Umlaut]

You really think scum!dgb who made a perfectly understandable and legitimate mistake

Doesn’t take the perfect opportunity to explain themselves here with that mess up to get towncred

That's entirely possible, sure. Wouldn't that imply there is towncred to be gained in the first place by admitting to the slip-up?

[Umlaut]

Who do you think muh's scumbuddies are?

Why are you asking me for pre-flip associatives?

I don't know who his buddies are. I don't even know if he's scum.

VOTE: umlaut this is a lack of confidence in scumreads that i don't expect from town. while i don't expect you to know if he's scum, that wording was terrible.

So who are my scumbuddies?

[Umlaut]

why are people still townreading DGB after that?

After what, forgetting something? (Maybe you're talking about something else but I'm not sure what)

I'm not even strongly townreading DGB, I just thought that post was towny and said as much.

[Umlaut]

I can only remember one other game I played with IV and he was on my ass because he didn't like my reads in that game too.

To be fair, my reads really were bad in that game and the guy he criticized me for hard-defending was scum.

[Umlaut]

Who's down for lynching umlaut?

i could be persuaded

VOTE: umlaut and if it flips scum, dgb is next methinks.

That was some pretty easy persuasion!

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Umlaut
You seem to have been mostly ignoring me Umlaut-senpai.
Why won't you notice me?

My first impulse is to ignore this.

(Not sure why I haven't gotten a strong impression from anything you've posted this game; I should probably do something about that)

[Umlaut]

You really think scum!dgb who made a perfectly understandable and legitimate mistake

Doesn’t take the perfect opportunity to explain themselves here with that mess up to get towncred

That's entirely possible, sure. Wouldn't that imply there is towncred to be gained in the first place by admitting to the slip-up?

fine, assuming she gets towncred for that might have been a bit of a circular-esque assumption

but regardless of how it might be viewed, it can't really be like, that bad

my main point, was in the rest of that quote that you cut off, which was how it seems unlikely scum!dgb wouldn't just admit to the genuine mistake they actually made

so I'm wondering with all this in mind, why you're still townreading that reaction/if you are

It's not a flawless impossible-to-fake towntell but it is a towntell. Evidence for a proposition is anything that is more likely if the proposition is true than if it's false. Regardless of how likely DGB would be to respond that way as scum, she'd be

more

likely to respond that way as town.

I can only remember one other game I played with IV and he was on my ass because he didn't like my reads in that game too.

To be fair, my reads really were bad in that game and the guy he criticized me for hard-defending was scum.

lmao, what a game, and it was also a cakez game. also was me and you from 4+ years ago so I'm not gonna read into too much. that was also teen aggro-iv

was there anything in particular you wanted to reference from that game? or just for nostalgia's sake? (<3)

I guess it's not actually that important since as you pointed out it's very very old meta. But it's if anything a reminder to myself that just because you're scumreading me for what look to me like dumb reasons doesn't mean you're scum.

[Umlaut]

Glitch NPOM Umlot Kanna-slot and Golden

Pretty sure we have better than 50% odds of hitting scum in this group

I'll iso guillotine

After seeing Nero criticize this pool I looked at what ABR's actually saying more closely and it's practically vacuous. He's not saying "at least half of these players are scum," he's not saying "at least half the scum are in this group," he's saying that

there's a better than 50% chance that at least one of them is scum

which is literally a weaker statement than just saying he has no idea they are scum (if I drew five players at random, assuming a scumteam of 4 the probability one of them is scum is something like 79%).

I assume this isn't what he actually meant but it's a hell of a hedgy statement to make.

[Umlaut]

Glitch NPOM Umlot Kanna-slot and Golden

Pretty sure we have better than 50% odds of hitting scum in this group

I'll iso guillotine

After seeing Nero criticize this pool I looked at what ABR's actually saying more closely and it's practically vacuous. He's not saying "at least half of these players are scum," he's not saying "at least half the scum are in this group," he's saying that

there's a better than 50% chance that at least one of them is scum

which is literally a weaker statement than just saying he has no idea they are scum (if I drew five players at random, assuming a scumteam of 4 the probability one of them is scum is something like 79%).

I assume this isn't what he actually meant but it's a hell of a hedgy statement to make.

Umlaut what do you think of VOTE: TheGoldenParadox ?

I don't know why you quoted my post, but I actually feel really good about VOTE: TheGoldenParadox. Really the worst vote for me in the bunch.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Pretentious

Quash all quickhammerers

[Umlaut]

Pretentious is the type of person that

knows

all of this. He knows that if he lolhammers like that it will look so scummy he might just get townread off of it.
Occams razor. If Pretentious!scum he's just hammering to seal an elimination on town without letting them claim.

QFT

[Umlaut]

on greenflip and given pretentious is scum im kind of worried about:

Umlaut, NoPowerOverMe, Tayl0rSwift, TheDuke, NorwegianboyEE

basically the last 5 people on the wagon, with an emphasis on u m l a u t because that was the main CW

Norway is probably just, town from dayplay though

this is of course, given pretentious is scum and the lolhammer was planned

lol

Clearly the person this wagon reflects worst on is the one who wasn't even on it

[Umlaut]

If Pretentious and I were scum together do you really think he would fail to notice I wasn't voting muh?

[Umlaut]

I honestly hate the makeup of both these wagons but I'm willing to overlook it because that move by Pretentious is just

that

scummy.

[Umlaut]

Well, actually no one other than Pretentious on the muh wagon right now is really that bad

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Pretentious
Yeah i agree with ABR here. I don’t think Pretentious realized Muh wasn’t actually E-1 and thusly their intentions are very sus.

This is also what proves I’m town not paying attention.

I don't follow how not paying attention is supposed to prove you're town.

I don't really care whether it's in character or not, I have never been on board with the "oh that's just so-and-so, quickhammering is what they do" justification for foregoing policy and I'm not about to get on board with it now.

[Umlaut]

I don't really care whether it's in character or not, I have never been on board with the "oh that's just so-and-so, quickhammering is what they do" justification for foregoing policy and I'm not about to get on board with it now.

So this is a policy yeet for you?

Sure, why not? Barring some very strong (and usually mechanical) reasons to believe a player is town, yeeting them for a quickhammer with no claim is an excellent policy.

That makes sense why you don’t follow it, but players who know me, or more specifically know me on Flavor Leaf, know that I’m a top tier scum player who knows every in and out of every scum game they play.

I'm willing to wait and hear whether anyone who does know your play can back this up, but I can't put much stock in a tell that you're self-aware of.

UNVOTE: Pretentious
Regardless of whether we're eventually eliminating him or not, I don't want the day to end anytime soon.

Anyone who ever pushes policy is just kinda a trash mindset. Be more creative than that, find more uses than just a policy. It’s lazy town and lazy scum.

I'm going to just disagree with you here. I think that towns more often go wrong by thinking they've found an exception to general principles when they really haven't, than they do by following general principles when they should make an exception.

[Umlaut]

Haven't caught up with the new pages and about to go to bed but

I say let's try a new wagon, DGB is a good player so maybe she has a good read on IV.

VOTE: innocentvillager

This pings me, "let's try a new wagon" is a really contrived reason to move your vote and NPOM is offloading responsibility for the specific vote to DGB.

[Umlaut]

My guess on a setup is 11/5/1

How is your guess based on zero flips supposed to be useful information

[Umlaut]

Also want to note that Pretentious' own description of his meta for being able to talk down his wagons as scum, but not as town, if taken seriously means that by letting up on him we're letting scum go.

[Umlaut]

(but by lynching him we're lynching a VT, so pick your poison I guess)

[Umlaut]

Not going to be really attentive to this game today, I'm out Doing Things and I hate reading/writing on mobile.

[Umlaut]

Ugh, why do I join large games

I'mma just... prodge through today and hope I'm in a better headspace to deal with these two zillion new pages over the weekend

[Umlaut]

Hi, might read all these new pages but probably not tbh.

ABR are 3rd parties allowed in a normal still? I feel like they were not allowed

Pedit: voting for the Non Imh guy

I recently played in a large normal with a serial killer.

[Umlaut]

Umlaut and abr seem like a scum pair to me.

Did you ever explain this?

[Umlaut]

non imh is the most boring non-info wagon possible
you either policy flashwagon him at eod
or you don't vote him
pressure will do nothing here, and there's almost nothing to talk about in his posts

I like this post.

[Umlaut]

What's Pretentious at?

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Pretentious (E-1)

I almost went back to TheGoldenParadox instead but honestly I will never be comfortable with this slot until it's flipped.

[Umlaut]

The more Pretentious spams the thread about how getting eliminated was all part of his galaxy-brain 11-dimensional chess strategy, the happier I am that he won't be in the game tomorrow.

[Umlaut]

So, I've got a big problem with Guillotina's claim and it seems almost so obvious that I feel like I must be missing something here since everyone else believes it.

HARDCLAIM!!! I'M A 2-SHOT ALIGNMENT COP WITH A BULLETPROOF VEST!!! THE BULLETPROOF VEST WAS USED LAST NIGHT AS SOMEONE TARGETED ME!

I gambled claiming an ascetic modifier counting on scum's arrogance to not NK me just because I was no PR but it didn't work as it seems.

THIS ALSO MEANS THAT THEY GOTTA BE A COUPLE OF VIGILANTES OUT THERE!

I am not aware of any normal role that would know if they were targeted for a kill at night but survived. Under Normal rules, a 1-Shot Bulletproof shouldn't be informed if they were shot at.

Another question:

My redcheck is in this group

and I strongly believe that his partners could be in this group too

Nero Cain
Gamma Emerald
Taylor Swift slot
InnocentVillager
Umlaut
ABR (not as likely but there are a few things that don't match)

Let's hunt scum!

If you targeted someone and therefore knew they were guilty, why would you give us a list like this? If you out and tell us who is guilty, that makes sense. If you wait until later today to out, so that you can see how the day proceeds naturally and how wagons form, that makes sense. But what sense does it make to say "I checked one of these six people"? Including putting one and saying they're

not as likely

... that pretty much gives away that ABR wasn't your target. What even is this claim?

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Guillotina

Unless the mod says there was an error Guillotina has made a completely impossible claim, and I'm not letting him back out of it after writing

HARDCLAIM!!!

in big bold red letters.

[Umlaut]

Actually I will admit trading 1-for-1 with town doesn't really make a lot of sense for scum here (unless it's precisely to make WIFOMy "why would scum do that" arguments) so I have to think about this more, but Guillotina had still better explain himself.

[Umlaut]

It’s not exactly a one for one, because the pool is so vague

Presumably we would expect Guillotina to make a specific claim before EOD though (I mean, if the whole claim weren't BS in the first place)? There's no excuse for him to let us risk yeeting town today.

[Umlaut]

Why would a cop claim on d2?

If they had a guilty, that's good enough reason

[Umlaut]

guil either out your guilty os STFU

This, and if you keep saying "it's not in town's interest to out it yet" when you're about to get yeeted I'm going to take that as a confession.

[Umlaut]

If you are town you'd understand this.

So now you don't think ABR is town (compared to a few hours ago when you said he was "unlikely" to be scum)?

[Umlaut]

I gambled claiming an ascetic modifier counting on scum's arrogance to not NK me just because I was no PR but it didn't work as it seems.

THIS ALSO MEANS THAT THEY GOTTA BE A COUPLE OF VIGILANTES OUT THERE!

This is where he lied about being shot ^

Where did i say that i got shot there?

These word games are just sad. If you were town you would

at the absolute minimum

admit that you lied about knowing you had been targeted for a kill last night, instead of arguing semantics.

[Umlaut]

If you are town you'd understand this.

So now you don't think ABR is town (compared to a few hours ago when you said he was "unlikely" to be scum)?

Unlikely implies improbability, not certainty.

More word games, cool. Way to completely dodge the point of your read on ABR having changed for the worse solely because he voted you for getting caught in a lie.

[Umlaut]

Defenestrate all deceivers

Forswear all falsifiers

Persecute all perjurers

[Umlaut]

I can't think of a possible reason why I wouldn't get killed if scum believed I was an ascetic, so I assumed they tried and my BPV protected me

Please reconcile this with your earlier statement that you claimed ascetic

specifically to dissuade scum from killing you:

I gambled claiming an ascetic modifier counting on scum's arrogance to not NK me just because I was no PR but it didn't work as it seems.

[Umlaut]

Or don't bother. You know, because you're scum making it up as you go along.

[Umlaut]

I gambled claiming an ascetic modifier counting on scum's arrogance to not NK me just because I was no PR but it didn't work as it seems.

THIS ALSO MEANS THAT THEY GOTTA BE A COUPLE OF VIGILANTES OUT THERE!

This is where he lied about being shot ^

Where did i say that i got shot there?

Going back to this post, I think Guillotina literally just lost track here of which of their past statements they were still standing by and which they had already admitted to lying about

[Umlaut]

I can't think of a possible reason why I wouldn't get killed if scum believed I was an ascetic, so I assumed they tried and my BPV protected me

Please reconcile this with your earlier statement that you claimed ascetic

specifically to dissuade scum from killing you:

I gambled claiming an ascetic modifier counting on scum's arrogance to not NK me just because I was no PR but it didn't work as it seems.

The second statement was my intention but I mean I don't know for sure, maybe my ascetic claim worked and they didn't target me, but maybe they didn't believe it and they tried.
I mean I got pushed a lot for claiming ascetic claim early D1, maybe they didn't believe it and tried to get me yeeted, maybe they smelled something was up with my claim.

The first statement is me considering that my ascetic maybe didn't work. This is me considering all options really.

That doesn't explain anything.

• You think claiming Ascetic makes the Mafia more likely to kill you.
  
• You (falsely) claimed Ascetic.
  
• You did this so that the Mafia would be less likely to kill you.

This doesn't make any sense and there is no way you can make it make sense.

[Umlaut]

Guillotina, just for funsies, can tell us your actual role name as stated in your role PM?

[Umlaut]

I can't wait to find out postgame what the fuck Guillotina was thinking.

I am, for some reason, not completely 100% convinced that that was a vig shot and not a Mafia kill, even though it makes absolutely no sense for a Mafia kill. I mean we know town can be braindead enough to fakeclaim a guilty as an actual PR, why can't scum be braindead enough to kill the fake redcheck?

(Possible answer: Because there are presumably four of them, and

at least one

would have pointed out what a terrible idea this was. Which is probably true, but I can still think of ways it could go through, possibly if someone put it in at the last second without thinking? Yesterday was a holiday for some of us after all, it's possible none of the scum were even around.)

[Umlaut]

I'm just inherently skeptical of theories that posit additional killing roles when there's been one kill per night, and I can't decide if the weirdness of Nero's being that kill is enough evidence to overwhelm that skepticism.

[Umlaut]

The kill might make a little sense if scum were worried Nero had a powerful role (they would have assumed he had

some

non-vanilla role after Guillotina's flip) and could either use it against them right away or make such a credible claim that he would survive today after all. I don't think the latter could have actually happened but I could imagine paranoid scum

thinking

it could happen.

[Umlaut]

The kill might make a little sense if scum were worried Nero had a powerful role

uhh

Nero claimed VT

don't think anyone would think he fakeclaims there as town after being hard guiltied

did you forget he claimed VT or are you taking that into account?

Honestly I did forget about that. But if I had been told last night to choose between "Town Nero lied about being VT" and "Town Guillotina completely fabricated a guilty" I think I might pick the former still.

[Umlaut]

Is it just me, or does this look faked? Like, am I supposed to believe they opened the thread and laid down a vote without looking up 4 posts to see Nero had died and flipped green? Seems way more like an attempt to look town via acting ignorant than an actual mistake anyone would make.

I had the same thought but you would be amazed how garbage some players are at paying attention to the game state.

[Umlaut]

lmao what even is this game

the redcheck was, completely faked as well, whether nero was checked or not

Either Guillo was a bumbling idiot or there is a redirector in the game, and Guillo tracked Nero but his track was redirected onto scum but he wasn't told this. Those are the only two possibilities I can come up with. WHY would Guillo fake the red check??

Faking is the only possibility within the confines of a normal game. Redirectors aren't normal.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Non Imh

I think going after lurkers actually makes a lot of sense right now. Assuming Nero

was

killed by the Mafia, if the whole team were present and active someone would have been hard against that kill. So unless one scum just strongarmed it over their buddies' objections (and that's pretty rare) I'd find it pretty likely that the team consists of multiple highly disengaged lurkers and maybe one seriously active player.

[Umlaut]

i think

this day should last like, as long as it needs to

there are just, way too many low-content slots that are hard to sort

even if it feels like we're just stalling the game, im willing to wait a week for the prod-replace-catchup process to happen for a few slots and just slow down this game a lot, we have 11+ RL days

I agree with this, no one end the day until we reach the point where everyone has either started playing or been replaced (or made it clear they're not going to do either one)

[Umlaut]

In Which Umlaut Finally Efforts And Tries to Make a Real Case on Someone

So the intersection of the Day 1 and Day 2 elimination wagons was {

Nero Cain

, muh316, Gamma Emerald, Umlaut, Albert B. Rampage}. These were both pretty 'safe' wagons, and if I were scum I would likely be on one or both of them (which in fact I was, but... I'm not scum) just because they stood out as so guilty-looking that I'd be afraid it was more suspicious

not

to vote them. As such I think there's a pretty good chance of finding scum in this pool.

FMPOV this means looking at {muh316, Gamma Emerald, Albert B. Rampage}. Of these I'm most interested in muh, because he's been on my "maybe this guy is scum?" radar from the beginning and I think I've overlooked him in favor of more interesting targets. (Also he doesn't have six zillion posts so I can ISO him without going crazy)

Spoiler: A whole lot of quoted muh posts with commentary

VOTE: Guillotina

Looks like a new player pretending to be experienced

This post just didn't make any sense to me at the time and still doesn't;

even if this is true, why is it a reason to vote someone?

Nero 3:16 says I just eliminated your ass!


VOTE: muh316

VOTE: Nero I thought we were out of RVS

Explicitly OMGUS, which is not terrible in itself but seems to be replacing a somewhat serious vote on Guil.

muh, comments on guillotina? Seems like you were sussing them earlier

I was suspicious of him because his behavior seems very scripted to me. But the claim seems believable enough that there's no reason to further pursue.

I really dislike this turnaround. Guil had already made the claim when muh voted him in the first place, but crucially at that time IV was kind of grilling Guil about it and others were giving the claim some sideeye as well. By the time IV posted 179 it was clear he

wasn't

really suspicious of Guil and no one else really was either, and suddenly muh has bigger fish to fry and "there's no reason to further pursue"? Seems like he thought Guil was an easy push and then redirected when it turned out he had misread the room.

Moreover this scans more as muh narrating his read progression than talking about Guillotina, which was what he was invited to do and should be more interested in doing.

so basically you are admitting to what I am accusing you of-not paying attention to the game.

The way I read a game is I skim over the unread posts and first respond to things related directly to me. Then I try to re-read later on when my brain is ready to process the other things going on.

I'm super dramatic and I got a big ass ego. How is that alignment indicative?

Given it's D1, we need something to get the game going which is why I pushed you a bit on it.

Both more self-explanation.

even when muh is active in the thread i still dont realize muh is posting. maybe the avatar makes the posts invisible (speaking of gamma i miss the old one).
VOTE: muh

What amazing contributions have you given to the game?

Tu quoque

[snip]

Pushing for something that is NAI is how you usually get the game going? Or just in this game?

I play with multiple year long breaks so I can't really speak on my meta. But coupled with the role claim and the flavor text, you seemed like a good target to generate conversation.

This is completely dodging the point of whether muh believes Guil's content was NAI or not. Even "yes, it's NAI, that's why I moved on" would at least be addressing the point, but muh seems to not want to be pinned down to that interpretation.

Except nobody's forgot about me and I'm the top wagon at the moment.

why is it exactly that you are still doing nothing in this game?

There's nothing for me to do yet

ABR please. There had been a lot of content up to that point. Saying there's nothing to do is just an excuse both town or scum make because they are lazy.

There's literally nothing notable except my wagon and Guillotinas flavor text. There's the glitch wagon but Glitch hasn't posted since that wagon formed on him.

Also, if there was something notable going on we would have had a lot more than a wagon on me and glitch. The past few pages all seem like fluff to me.

Excuses for not contributing. Town can be uninterested too so this is a weak point but it's not nothing.

not for alignment, read order
am biased in favor of activity tho
guil is town for me, iv too

By that criteria you're most likely to be scum then

This post doesn't seem like much, but I'm looking at it now and it screams scum to me. "By your reasoning, you're scum!" is just the sort of

gotcha

remark that no one actually posts as part of a good faith scumhunting effort but only because they want to make a show of engaging people's arguments.

If you think we’re wrong to push you, why do you think it’s happening?

I don't think it's wrong to push me. Go for it. I just know there's scum on the wagon since my playstyle makes me a great candidate for LHF.

Town think (know!) it's wrong to push them, because they're town.

Lol I thought y'all had killed me without asking for a claim. Glad to be alive.

VOTE: Pretentious

This was the seventh vote onto Pretentious, after his fake-quickhammer of muh. That's... a fairly sound reason for a vote, of course. But it's impossible to get a sense of what muh really thought of Pretentious since he didn't say a single word about him for the rest of the day:

How tf do we have 20 pages in a span of a few hours. Anybody got a tl;dr?

So turns out Guillotina is not the only annoying player in the game. I skimmed a couple of pages, looks like a bunch of shitposting to me.

So turns out Guillotina is not the only annoying player in the game. I skimmed a couple of pages, looks like a bunch of shitposting to me.

LOL the irony in this post

At least I don't try to come off as the God of Mafia.

I have to agree with Guil about the irony.

---

VOTE: Guillotina

Not buying the claim.

This is literally muh's entire ISO for Day 2. He didn't buy the claim. Fair enough, the claim was false so not buying it is correct. But he had nothing to say about it until I had already debunked the claim and a wagon had started forming on Guil as a result.

---

VOTE: Non lmh
This slot has been avoiding the conversation for a long time and has managed to dodge replacement.

And this is muh's vote today. Others have already pointed out Non lmh is an easy target. I don't think that in itself makes muh scum (I have made something of a habit of saying "maybe the easy target is an easy target because they're just scum!") but it sure doesn't make him town either.

don't know about that muh guy but i have a person pushing someone who is dead null after 109 pages
i will vote for that person
VOTE: muh

So one inactive person defending another inactive person. Nice.

And this is muh's response to being criticized/voted for the easy lurker push. Which is just dismissal and not engagement (and incidentally is a missed opportunity to drag inactive-May into the game by asking if she actually thinks Non's play is acceptable or what?).

Tl;dr: Muh's day 1 play was terrible and scummy, and his day 2 and 3 play have been nonexistent. We should go back to this.

VOTE: muh316

[Umlaut]

I have to say I like what unwnd is doing with the May slot.

[Umlaut]

Pretty much doing my best to ignore this game today because of IRL responsibilities but want to point out to unwnd that there have been some 7 pages since the most recent VC and they shouldn't be relying on it

[Umlaut]

Here's a big case for voting muh

Boy it would have been neat if anyone had responded to this beyond IV's "maybe I'll vote this later"

[Umlaut]

Can I interest you in ABR?

You could hypothetically interest me but I need to see some kind of sales pitch first, not just asking nicely.

[Umlaut]

ABR, what is your actual read on muh? You seem to be objecting to the wagon without coming out and saying whether you think he's town or not.

[Umlaut]

His tone looks town to me. I don't see scum making a post as un-self-conscious as 2960.

[Umlaut]

This is the best win I've ever done nothing to earn.

[Umlaut]

I have to say unwnd and Vaxkiller basically saved this game
In dead chat we thought this one was all over for town around the time Guillotina fakeclaimed and the scum team had complete control over the day
Really impressive
IV killed it with night actions too

I have to agree with this, very well played to all three of you.