Mini Normal 2180 | Fake Peoples | Endgame

[petapan]

VOTE: sircakez

listen we're all going to do this eventually so let's just save ourselves the trouble

[petapan]

i was about to ask that but midway beat me to it so instead, the first townlean of the game goes to midway!!

Would scum!Datisi say this? I don't think it serves him any value as scum here.

i don't think it's a hard thing to say as either alignment but datisi probtown anyway

[petapan]

i was about to ask that but midway beat me to it so instead, the first townlean of the game goes to midway!!

Would scum!Datisi say this? I don't think it serves him any value as scum here.

i don't think it's a hard thing to say as either alignment but datisi probtown anyway

why am i probtown

what did i do to deserve such honour

the way you're questioning vp baltar here

[petapan]

tbh i don't think midwaybear has towntold in his first 5 posts, a bad sign for him

[petapan]

tbh i don't think midwaybear has towntold in his first 5 posts, a bad sign for him

How do you even read me

i dunno i expect when you're town to make it apparent really quickly

[petapan]

why is datisi so spiky? this doesn't really match up with what I expect from town!him.
why hasn't midway TRed me yet? this may be a bad game to be referencing but my one game with them(it was a marathon so its a bad reference), they TRed me instantly. At the time I thought it was scummy but they were town there.
ABR, stop tunneling Cakey and engage someone else please. it looks p bad to be having ur own really tunnelly convo on the side with Cakey while all this *gestures vaguely* is all happening.

why would you expect midwaybear to townread you again after one game?

why does it matter if ABR is tunnel-y? i've never played with him but that's exactly how i expect him to play

[petapan]

i dunno i expect when you're town to make it apparent really quickly

I don't think I'm an obv-town player. My recent playstyle is mostly NAI.

like in smoke-filled antechamber you had this eager beaver energy that seems to be missing here

dunno but generally if a person is big on giving out town passes, I'd expect a few here tho he gave one to datisi so I suppose that matches up fine.

cuz poor cake is kinda LHF-y from what I know. I've played one game with ABR and got fooled to hell and back by scum!him.

no, but you specifically asked why he wasn't townreading

you

. don't shift the goalposts now. why did you expect that read from him?

you know that second line is really suspect to me.

[petapan]

i've never played with him but that's exactly how i expect him to play

What are you basing that on?

i watched revelations and still remember a guide to focusing on scum and getting them lynched

[petapan]

VOTE: unwnd

[petapan]

VOTE: unwnd

where'd ur SR on me go?

did i express a scumread of you?

[petapan]

did i express a scumread of you?

basically, yes.

i have issues with what you've posted but was not motivated to place a vote on you

[petapan]

sorry for falling behind, too late to catch up tonight, will do so tomorrow

[petapan]

what the fuck i didn't even get to post

[petapan]

im only like halfway through but iv's posts are bad

gamma datisi and baltar townreads but these are half baked

[petapan]

idk why a bunch of people were hemming and hawing around iv's shitty posts but staying on the shoshin vote

[petapan]

unwnd felt like he was being really uncharitable toward gamma's catchup posts

[petapan]

yeah she was obnoxious but that doesn't make her scum
since when are PLs a good outcome on day 1???

i dont care about her personality, she was completely untrustworthy and incompetent

this is what i'd say after yeeting off a lhf as scum

[petapan]

midwaybear is scum btw

[petapan]

Everyone on the Shoshin wagon better give me some solid reasons they are on it cuz trust me, if this ends up flipping green, tomorrow I am gonna find out which one of u scumbuckets was the scum pushing her wagon.

She doesn't strike me as LHF but nothing she has done is scummy for her imo.

I do not SR her tho her lack of TRs and SRs is very concerning I must say.

Literally the 5 best players in the game screaming at you to vote scum and you're out here NOOOO ITS TOOO EARLYYYY TO VOTE SCUUUUUMMMM

the bottom three are total scumbuckets if u ask me.
5 best players. lmfao. ur only saying that bc they agree with u.

okay so why did you support the wagon anyway

[petapan]

midwaybear is scum btw

you think its midway/iv/____?

i dont know i have too many scumreads right now

[petapan]

oh dv might be town i think even though i have bad memories of losing to him when he was scum

[petapan]

caught up, really not happy with how all that went down, have a lot of questions i want to ask people but i'll leave this here for now

VOTE: Noraa

[petapan]

VOTE: Iconeum
Let’s draw this dragon out of his lair a bit.

dumb vote

[petapan]

I think your explanation is reasonable and I agreed with your pressure on Baltar, it just came out a bit undercooked as I feel you're trying to force yourself to stay engaged

Yeah I agree with you, I think it's normal to respond to someone when they ask you something but I can't shake the feeling he was baiting you a bit

ABR'S arrogance means nothing until he uses it for purpose

VOTE: Gamma emerald

I almost hesitated because I find myself voting him early but this time it's merited

Tell me more. I'm not an expert at reading gamma. That post didn't feel scummy to me, but maybe it is a meta thing?

It's just very out of character for him. I don't feel his normal behavior emits that type of force where he can make posts just calling something town/scum

If you agree your posts were mostly self-serving, then what purpose do you have to provide them

It has to be self-serving in a way that is efficient or something you're doing to get reads, I don't know if you honestly believe that those players were town/scum from one post that you read from catchup

ah, that wouldn't be a reason for me to townread you though imo

Your play here is actually a bit different from what I remember of you from that game. I also think I remember hardcore thinking you were mafia only to change my mind before the end?

(@Shoshin)

--

Also I think noraa needs to be considered as a candidate for mafia, though I need to do a reread to confirm.

ABR and VP are also making me nervous.

Spoiler:

I want you to know that I don't disagree and there's a reason I didn't hop on

midwaybear is scum btw

Hey I agree

wtf are you doing

[petapan]

BTW, not sure why I'm being scumread here

probably because you're being scummy

[petapan]

probably because you're being scummy

Like what

like the response you just gave me

[petapan]

Now that Xenoblade 2 is over I can say that Noraa definitely reminds me of that game
Really spazzy and no consistency in reads or pushes

this was why i hated her just saying you were LHF-ish because it didn't feel like a real attempt to sort you and she'd just seen you get blown out of the water on a bad d1 as scum. more words later

like the response you just gave me

How is that scummy? I don't really believe a two word response makes you scumread me further.

it is but i'm not gonna explain it to you

[petapan]

ABR save me

someone save me

uhhhhhhhh lol

[petapan]

Midwaybear is also probably scum

Why??

Bad posturing around Shoshin and lack of presence

Can you explain what you expect from him as town?

cf. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

[petapan]

please don't end the day before i can actually talk to people and get through my notes because there was

a lot

i had issues with

[petapan]

HARDCLAIM!!! I'M A TOWN DISLOYAL HIDER!!! I TARGETED MIDWAYBEAR LAST NIGHT!!!

that makes literally no sense, doesn't hider die on scum?

[petapan]

no, a weak hider dies on scum

have things changed since 2012 because the hider in hard boiled dies on scum (or a vig)

[petapan]

specifically,

If I target scum and they die at night, I die regardless of what happens to me
If I target scum and they don’t die at night (even if they are shot but somehow stay alive) and I get shot, I don’t die
If I target town it’s as if I didn’t submit any action at all, I will die if and only if I get shot

okay so that functionally doesn't amount to a guilty then?

[petapan]

because you're treating it as if it is one

[petapan]

gdi i was hoping to get work done

[petapan]

no, a weak hider dies on scum

have things changed since 2012 because the hider in hard boiled dies on scum (or a vig)

that's not the normal version of a hider

i don't understand normal roles anymore

[petapan]

i don't know if my hide succeeded or not. if there is a role out there that saw me going or didn't that would confirm mwb as scum or not. otherwise, no info there

this is just rolefishing isnt it

[petapan]

if i am scum, you have to believe like one of my buddies came up with it as a lol!last ditch effort or something

Aren't you in a bad spot? You admitted it yourself.

hmmm

[petapan]

that is a role i could believe gypyx to be insane enough to come up with but frankly iv is scum so

VOTE: iv

I tentatively believe the claim. Unvote. Dont rush.

scumlord
ABR would definitely make this shit up as scum

do you think abr would play the way he's been playing as scum?

[petapan]

tbh shoshin was obvtown and i was going to unvote i swear, i did call for them not to be hammered in the next 24 hrs

are you fucking kidding me

[petapan]

i find it super questionable that all 3 could be town prs but i'll wait to see what cakez says

[petapan]

I may not understand normal games very well nowadays but is it even possible for Cakez' and Iv's roles to both exist in a mini normal?

dude im so lost as to what all this shit is

what happened to cop and doctor

[petapan]

i'm looking at the last gypyx game now and...wow

[petapan]

yeah i don't see abr faking a role like that, none of the oldies would know to do it

[petapan]

Why can't abr just be the scum version of his role

why would he out here? just to save iv?

[petapan]

the formulation makes more sense in my mind from a town perspective rather than a scum one

[petapan]

now i'm paranoid we're all town and scum Noraa is skating by here

i was working on shaping my notes into an actual case until all this fuckery happened but have serious issues with her play on day 1

[petapan]

Basically in a nutshell, her town play there convinced me that her empty questions weren't town indicative.
But I was also worried she was one of those players that I could never SR.
I ended up flip flopping a shit ton trying to decide what was the best play.
I caved to ABR.
Later regretted a lil.
Stayed firm regardless.
Decided to leave wagon to give her space.

you did a lot of complaining about the wagon speed but kept saying you were okay with the elim and never offered an alternative

[petapan]

I think I'm starting to believe in the world of IV town ABR scum

weren't you contemplating the possibility of all of you being town? what happened?

[petapan]

HOW THE FUCK DID YOU ADD 30 PAGES ARE YOU FU-

things happened

[petapan]

lmao if the rand did that shit to them again

[petapan]

midway's tone when pushed on their low presence felt like a butthurt townie as i said
peta picked up on a vibe i agree with, when IV seemed to be rolefishing
i think VP has a pleasant ISO if you read it

that is the...quaintest reason anyone has given to townread me

how does having a "pleasant ISO" equate to someone being town?

[petapan]

midway's tone when pushed on their low presence felt like a butthurt townie as i said
peta picked up on a vibe i agree with, when IV seemed to be rolefishing
i think VP has a pleasant ISO if you read it

that is the...quaintest reason anyone has given to townread me

how does having a "pleasant ISO" equate to someone being town?

it's literally my first day in this game, my initial thoughts were asked, and i gave them.

I don't think we've played together, but my reads are mostly established from interaction rather then rereading. Other then that, they were my honest thoughts.

Also, leave my VP read alone. I'm probably right on them anyway.

i don't disagree with the conclusion but i'm not understanding the process to get there which is what i'm interested in

[petapan]

Lot of pages over night, and glad Ico is finally here. I think their entrance into the game was towny on the whole given willingness to share hip reads and corner themselves immediately into ~

information

~

would agree his intro is good on the whole, have some things i'd quibble with e.g. the midwaybear read but his reasoning for getting there wasn't bad. i am a little concerned about the softclaiming stuff though? b/c i have recently seen scum try to vaguely hint at pr stuff to try to get an execution through on a claimed town pr without explicitly counterclaiming

[petapan]

Lot of pages over night, and glad Ico is finally here. I think their entrance into the game was towny on the whole given willingness to share hip reads and corner themselves immediately into ~

information

~

would agree his intro is good on the whole, have some things i'd quibble with e.g. the midwaybear read but his reasoning for getting there wasn't bad. i am a little concerned about the softclaiming stuff though? b/c i have recently seen scum try to vaguely hint at pr stuff to try to get an execution through on a claimed town pr without explicitly counterclaiming

You think Ico could be softing to direct us toward the Cakez/IV/ABR stuff?

i'm apprehensive about the possibility

[petapan]

Peta - hit me with this gut reads. Don't feel like I've got much interaction with you yet this game.

What do you think of the Shoshin wagon? Is it even worth hunting scum on there?

If you had to vig someone rn out of the IV/ABR/Cakez pool, would you? And if so, who?

Thoughts on noraa?

town on you, datisi, abr, gamma, ico would go on the end as a faint townread

i gutread deasvail as town at the end of day yesterday because he was trying to hit the brakes on the shoshin wagon and actually let things develop, but on my readthrough overnight i realized he hasn't done anything he wouldn't do as scum and i am gradually becoming more concerned with him

iv i don't even fucking know anymore

nora, midwaybear scummy. i didn't scumread cakez off day 1, agreed with what he was saying about iv to start the day, but his posting today is increasingly starting to look like his scum flail and if i had to kill one of the pr claims right now with a dayvig it'd be him

i didn't really like the shoshin vote but looking back at the wagon the only people on it that aren't in my townreads are midwaybear and iv, and i can see how scum would want to just sit back and let the obviously self-destructing townie put the rope around their neck.

i have a pile of notes on nora but really hated the way she approached the wagon day 1 and don't like what she's doing now, the apathy doesn't make sense from a town pov but does make sense from a scum one where she's sick of keeping up the facade

[petapan]

I haven't really been thinking of whole game reads, and I'm trying to think about the current claims. Both ABR and Cakez are very scummy while IV is sorta just floating around. I'm not sure what to make of that. Outside of these claims I'm townreading Noraa and petapan.

why am i town to you

[petapan]

i didn't scumread cakez off day 1, agreed with what he was saying about iv to start the day, but his posting today is increasingly starting to look like his scum flail

your wording makes it seem meta based? any meta evidence that he kind of flails like this as scum

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

literally just ended

[petapan]

Someone else mentioned a negative utility role possibly as balance...Peta maybe?

i have not done setup spec and would not profess to know anything about normal game balance in 2020, i've been out of the game almost as long as you have

[petapan]

meh, like...trying not to let AtE roll me over anymore and affect my decision-making, because i always get it wrong determining whether it's real or fake, but...i'm not sure nora lights her house on fire for no reason as scum here.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: sircakez

[petapan]

i was going to suggest voting outside and letting claims resolve themselves but i really doubt there'd be 2 town investigative roles with that strength and i've been burned by letting scummy pr claims so at this point i'd rather close my eyes and yeet it. don't really find the way cakez was pushing back on abr towny at all.

[petapan]

ah yes dayplay i forgot that was also a thing let's talk about that

That’s not how you talk someone out of scum reading you.

this is the last post midway made as of now
it's a random pop in after 5 hours of not posting that doesn't progress the game at all

interested in any and all takes regarding that

yeah that was a bad post. when he was arguing with you earlier i doubted myself a little but that was a scummy pileon and he's a stronger scumread than nora at this point.

[petapan]

when he was arguing with you earlier i doubted myself a little

do you think he was coming off towny from that?

it was not as overtly scummy because it felt a little indignant, but this was a passing feeling

[petapan]

actually false alarm, it wasn't anything important, it's just midway/cakez makes no sense as a team

because idk if midway would be bussing cakez here if cakez is about to flip smt like mafia doc which would then badly implicate midway

but were not exactly talking about that anyway so meeeeh

this completely slipped my mind which tells you how long this day has gone on for

[petapan]

hey midwaybear why am i town to you

[petapan]

which stances, exactly? name specific ones.

[petapan]

that's not an answer

[petapan]

meh, like...trying not to let AtE roll me over anymore and affect my decision-making, because i always get it wrong determining whether it's real or fake, but...i'm not sure nora lights her house on fire for no reason as scum here.

Why are you seemingly ignoring Cakez ATE compared to Noraa? Is there a difference to you? I'm agreeing with the general sentiment here though.

it's less about what they're doing and more about the position of where they're doing it. cakez doesn't have an option, it's all he has at this point. with nora it feels very premature for her to break down that way when there wasn't necessarily going to be a vote on her.

In general, I feel like his stances have been likely to come from town. I can look for specifics.

you don't remember?

[petapan]

i was hardly the first person to say that

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

what the fuck was that post iv

[petapan]

If I had something productive to post right now then I would be doing it.

Right now my main thoughts are that most posts made are not actually very helpful and I’m not convinced by noraa’s unsolicited meta

what are your reads right now?

[petapan]

i really hate myself. and this game. but mostly myself.

the town roles that have flipped are much more normal sounding than i was expecting

[petapan]

i'm here i slept in okay still catching up

[petapan]

yes messclaim today before lylo and so we can hopefully untangle what the fuck is going on here

[petapan]

i'm reading page 83 and help i don't know if i scumread midwaybear anymore

[petapan]

vp baltar is still obv town btw thanks

[petapan]

really hate that dv read on him at the end of day yesterday

[petapan]

there are twodead PRs and two claimed town power roles and iconeum has softed something, he needs to come clean NOW because i guarantee you not all the claims are legitimate

[petapan]

Thoughts on order?

Personally, maybe something like DV-Gamma-Ico-VPB-dunn-peta-me.

lmao at putting yourself at the end of a proposed massclaim though

is there some other one, still catching up, went to make coffee

[petapan]

Fucking cakez man I was seriously reconsidering his flip and could have saved him, he just meakly dipped his bannered and surrendered to scum. And I wouldn't have claimed yesterday if he just left me the fuck alone on d2 instead of attacking me.

CAKEZ NEVER ATTACK ME AS TOWN YOU ARE ALWAYS WRONG AND YOU ALWAYS WIND UP KILLED OVER IT. JUST DONT. I CANT MAKE SENSE OF THE WAY YOU PLAY.

this is, uhh

[petapan]

ABR i promise i am town here. It's okay, we're all wrong sometimes, he was a strong townread for me but even towards EOD i got lots of second thoughts. let's try and salvage what we can

WHY IS EVERYONE SOUNDING SO SCUMMY

[petapan]

you think he's faking his posts but townread him?

[petapan]

midwaybear please

[petapan]

there are twodead PRs and two claimed town power roles and iconeum has softed something, he needs to come clean NOW because i guarantee you not all the claims are legitimate

Do you think Ico should claim higher in the proposed claim order?

i don't see a full proposed claims order, i think i would prefer iconeum going sooner but it's not a big dea to me. i halfway want to claim right now so we can get this over with

[petapan]

Yes, because it is very obvious. I remember him doing something similar in 2160 where he faked a scumslip for no reason. I feel like this is just town!IV trying to have some fun, and I don't think it is necessary for him to do as scum.
pedit: ??

wasnt he actually scum in 2160 who actually scumslipped

[petapan]

No, he was town trolling.
Also, why are we letting VPB dictate claiming order? I don't necessarily think it's that important, but I'm wondering why people are townreading him. I find his posts merely pleasant, but there's nothing that is townie.

i'm fine with him doing it, if you really townread me, just trust me on this. it's not like he's gonna manipulate this for his own ends

[petapan]

VT

[petapan]

gamma really kind of fell off the map yesterday

[petapan]

how do you feel about abr right now?

[petapan]

just hit me we're going to be waiting a while

[petapan]

confirming that

also makes ico's read of you day 2 make sense

[petapan]

also, uh

does anyone think there can be a town roleblocker, a scum roleblocker, and a backup town roleblocker

because that seems implausible to me

[petapan]

VPB’s claim is confirmed by 2 people. If VPB is scum his entire team is in on this play.

while i love a good gambit i wouldn't make one that outs the entire team if it fails lmao

and p sure iconeum was crumbing it yesterday

so i think abr is just scumclaiming

[petapan]

VOTE: ABR

i'm gonna go look at my day 1 notes

[petapan]

I feel like Noraa is negative utility for town. She is god at mafia and probably trash as town. We should eliminate her just because of that.

VOTE: Noraa

I also find this scummy from ABR.

I highly doubt that you can read Noraa, her friendliness is NAI, she seems like she slip by right under your nose if you were an informed cop, and your chainsaw defense of your fake townread screams scum to me.

VOTE: Shoshin

Noraa looks like she's freaking out over her scumbuddy getting voted.

"But the first bandwagon of the day is always on town".

Not when I'm in the game. Links available on demand.

Noraa you thought I was conftown in a game where I was obvscum. You're a genius at scum but you're really bad at town. You're probably scum here trying to bail out your buddy and I respect your hustle but it's not gonna work ok?

last post is in my notes with just "theater?" written next to it. it...makes a lot of sense as s/s, imo. the early putdowns of her without concrete reasoning, the switch to attack shoshin off her read of nora, calling her scum while continuing to push on a town

[petapan]

fine whatever ABR can go, not gonna defend them anymore at this point

he's literally just lolcatting calling the confirmed FN scum

[petapan]

Yes, I've seen them as town a lot

I think they're a little obvious as scum now that I think of it, so more likely to be town here

you think midway's posts this game haven't been scummy? he's a little better today but that doesn't erase the first two days

[petapan]

You've never even explained why you found my posts scummy. I don't think you're able to read me super well anyways.

are you kidding me right now

[petapan]

the last time we were both town was in xenoblade 2 where i townread you off your first post dude

but this game you just made these awkward popins adding momentum to whatever was going on at the time, there was hardly original thought, no curiosity, no real scumhunting

[petapan]

okay that's DIFFERENT, i had you as town there too, i just got paranoid late game, you can't hold that over my head because i screwed up, i have not get the same feeling from you at all here but this is less about

you

and more about how casual dunnstral's read on you is, you don't need to butt in

[petapan]

actually thought about it and i don't know if midwaybear talks to abr that way day 1 if they're partners. meh.

[petapan]

what's the lylo plan in the event ABR flips town?

he's effectively scumclaimed dude, come on

[petapan]

>names the friendly neighbor as scum with 2 people he didn't visit and peaces out
>gee guys i dunno what if he flips town

[petapan]

i didn't see him pulling that claim out as scum either but he basically hard drove 2 eliminations and then tried to blame everyone else for the 2nd one, the way he acted around the vote end of day was just faux indecision. he clearly got drunk on powerwolfing and now has a hangover and has gone into surrender mode, i do not understand why this is a sticking point


but i also wouldn't expect his partners to defend him at this point

[petapan]

b/c without the claim i didn't like him and removing everything about it i don't see how he isn't scum and im losing my mind over you seeing obvious lolcatting and still doubting it

[petapan]

dude you can't possibly think he didn't see FRIENDLY NEIGHBOR as part of the claim

unless he's just skimming, because he is scum who isn't expecting to survive and so isn't actually reading

[petapan]

Friendly_Neighbor is a role that visits people and gives them a message that confirms them as town and it's been around a while

[petapan]

okay i checked and it never shows up anywhere else in his post history so that is in fact real

[petapan]

yeah, i searched your post history like i said, i know that's true at least

UNVOTE:

i dunno i need to take some time to reread and think about this

[petapan]

okay i checked and it never shows up anywhere else in his post history so that is in fact real

You checked his games or just ctrl+f'ed it?

you can literally just pull someone's post history from their user profile and use the search box there, this game is the first time he has ever made a post with the words "friendly neighbor" out of 26763 posts

[petapan]

eh like if i'm scum and i know i'm likely to be screwed, i just tell my buddies to shut up and bus, newbie 2033 i subbed into a slot that got guiltied by the tracker as soon as i repped in (replaced overnight), i was telling my buddy the whole time to bus me no matter what so he'd look better at endgame

[petapan]

i dont think noraaslot being teamed with abr is impossible and in fact some things make a lot of sense if they were partnered

[petapan]

im 90% sure cakez is scum and 75% sure Noraa is scum.

guys can we just hammer cakez, we have to make a decision and end the torture for SOMEONE

this is misery

like this is what was going on when there was some possible shifting to nora as a counterwagon to cakez. and tbh, i dont really read into the AtE, i got snowed by it as a spectator to death curse when she got wagoned early

my one hard read is that DV/noraslot is never S/S, because that tension WAS real, so i think theres at least 1 scum in midway/gamma

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

Ok wait you think cakez flips town for real?

Jesus fucking christ is cakez town, am i being trolled here.

Goddamit i invented the Detective role. I will feel soooo bad if im wrong about this.

VOTE: Cakez

Ok... this is so high stakes i dont want to be wrong

If cakez is town he will fight harder than this. Hammer away guys.

also, like, right after that...if this isn't fake, i suck at mafia

[petapan]

Midway/gamma is the sort I'm struggling with. I'd be interested in anyone's in depth thoughts there

both are capable of obvtowning and neither has done it this game

gamma started strong but has faded hard, midway is somewhere in the opposite range

i guess experience would say midway is possibly townier there? the game iv was in with him (mini theme 2167), i spectated through the early parts of the game, he faded hard as scum and had trouble coming up with things to say as the game dragged on, by his own admission. here he doesn't seem to be having as much trouble speaking his mind. that's not really a high confidence read though

[petapan]

tbh i wouldn't be floored if i was wrong on noraslot and its both of gamma/midway

[petapan]

oops, didn't mean to quote that

but because i did, @petapan i don't see why that has to be fake? idk if it necessarily reads real to me, just feels like it could be real

i don't know at the time it looked like faux indecision, the waffling over it, acting sad but ultimately still ending up voting cakez

then he clapped back at me and i felt bad about it and i just havent wanted to think about the game

[petapan]

oops, didn't mean to quote that

but because i did, @petapan i don't see why that has to be fake? idk if it necessarily reads real to me, just feels like it could be real

i don't know at the time it looked like faux indecision, the waffling over it, acting sad but ultimately still ending up voting cakez

then he clapped back at me and i felt bad about it and i just havent wanted to think about the game

are you still convinced ABR is scum over someone like Gamma or DV?

no i need to rethink things but im not in the right headspace to do it rn

[petapan]

i don't know what to think right now i'm sorry i'm gonna sleep on it

[petapan]

im scared

[petapan]

i said i wanted to sleep on it and think things over and YOU WENT AND HAMMERED YOURSELF JESUS CHRIST WHAT THE FUCK ALBERT

[petapan]

what did i do in a past life to deserve this game

[petapan]

peta ur like my strongest townread this game rn

what are the odds of both Dunn and DV being town here?

what *is* your solve rn?

i don't know, after the flip i did not want to think about this game at all

the one thought i had is that dv is only scum if the exact team is dv/gama/ico and i don't know if that

feels

like the team

please don't lean on me i'm really bad at ELo

[petapan]

i took a shower and my thoughts were that probably one of the remaining PR claims is fake, and there's at least 1 in midway/gamma

[petapan]

im still very disappointed in town for being completely confbiased on ABR but whatever let’s leave thst for postgame, nothing we can do about it now

dude i have no idea how the fuck you thought he looked town for most of that day unless you already knew he was town

[petapan]

i took a shower and my thoughts were that probably one of the remaining PR claims is fake, and there's at least 1 in midway/gamma

this is your response to my question on why you think it’s ico/dv/gamma if dv is scum? It’s not me because I drove the DV wagon so it’s ico, the only remaining PR, and it’s not midway because dv/midway aren’t aligned, and definitely not Dunnstral for the same reason?

I agree with that logic up to mwb, and think we need to re-examine that slot

peta i think you’re town and if you vote town today we are completely screwed, not to stress you out more but we cannot vote a townie today or like ever

because i don't think that kind of last minute flashwagon on dv happens if a teammate is bussing him, otherwise they would just sit on abr

and midway is such a low confidence player as scum that jumping off a wagon on a town pr to vote a teammate would be completely out of character for him

[petapan]

i don't really want to commit to any sort of full team guess until i reread the game though

[petapan]

and midway is such a low confidence player as scum that jumping off a wagon on a town pr to vote a teammate would be completely out of character for him

feel like low confidence scum player is not the same as unwilling to bus when it aligns with his reads? he has been saying DV is scummy all game, it's the perfect reason to bus as scum

it gives a me a little pause too i guess? but not enough to think he's not scum for it

and tbh, it makes more sense than ico/dv/gamma scumteam just hard buddying each other for the win

i re-ISO'd iconeum over the night and im not completely convinced? but it does looks townier than i thought

mwb was pretty convincing in the first part of illicit substances, this is a less intense plist so and he's gotten practice from illicit, so i don't think it's crazy that he's still able to engage the thread reasonably well this game as scum

idk i guess i'd want to look at their trajectories on each other over the whole game but my impression is there was no need to bus at all there

[petapan]

i bet the dead thread is fun

wonder if they've been spoilered

probably yelling at me about how obvious it is right now

[petapan]

lmfao at the idea of deep wolf midwaybear

[petapan]

peta if you're scum congrats, you've won already

unless there's some crazy counter to my role (probably is, tbh, like an ascetic or something) im probably gonna be alive for a while? we'll see

i'm not and that's the problem because i usually vote wrong late game

it is funny but like, if that's the direction the gamestate heads with dv/gamma being in almost everyone's solve? not crazy

this just still is not an easy thing for me to buy, sorry

[petapan]

why

[petapan]

what is the scum agenda he has been pushing

why does no one townreading him mean he's scum rather than someone being set up for the misflip

if he's scum who are his teammates

[petapan]

neither gamma or ico were the ones who were voting DV though what the fuck

do either of them even scumread dv

[petapan]

hard not to get squinty eyes when iv is calling midway scum but both are saying to vote deasvail first

[petapan]

...what

[petapan]

that is not what the white flag gambit is

but my point is that you + the guy you supposedly scumread want to go for the same target and you just write it off as him probably bussing and that reasoning doesn't really gel with me

[petapan]

i

guess

that makes sense, maybe, but i still have this fear it's a trap vote. i'll think about it when i re-read isos later tonight

[petapan]

is that not concerning to you

[petapan]

uh

ok

who do you think is mafia

[petapan]

so you think the entire scumteam piled on dv as a counter to abr

[petapan]

the white flag gambit is when scum votes a teammate in a situation where they would be bussing into autoloss, in order to make people think they are not teamed. that does not apply here

[petapan]

I forgot about IV

I think they actually look worse for defending ABR, seemed like a TMI viewpoint

I'm reading Ico, IV, peta as town here

can you elaborate on whoever you care to? especially iconeum?

You and peta = I have good gut feelings on today, Ico = good gut feelings on yesterday.

Though I'm not certain whether mwb is scum or not, so I dunno

how did you go from thinking IV had TMI on albert to getting a good gut feeling on him today?

[petapan]

It seems like Gamma and DV are putting it all on the table today and their contingency plan is f3 with me vs Ico.

what's this supposed to mean, exactly?

[petapan]

doing that iso i should have been doing...midway, was there ever an explanation for why you townread noraa?

[petapan]

doing that iso i should have been doing...midway, was there ever an explanation for why you townread noraa?

I don't remember, but her anger seemed genuine. Dunn has been ok.

you read her as town before she got angry, though. and it seems a fairly shallow read to be holding onto at lylo. his posts have been "okay"? nothing to say beyond that? you were able to give somewhat detailed reads at one point, why are they so basic here?

[petapan]

gamma why did you go from calling shoshin town to joining the wagon on her

i know this is like 2 days late but it came up again when i was rereading

[petapan]

i know we're all human and i'm just as fallible as anyone but i don't think "she was mean to me" is a particularly good reason to vote someone for elimination

you'd briefly suggested DV was scum in 2260, did your mind change on that solely because of the flashwagon?

[petapan]

mwb and IV targeting her like they are seems like scum targeting town

how, exactly?

[petapan]

DV wagon absolutely infested with scum

this is the most i can find that you've said about it, i can't really get any reasoning, you just say the people pushing DV are scum. there seems to be a case of circular reasoning here, DV is town because scum are targeting him, iv and midway are scummy because they're targeting DV. i wasn't super comfortable with the flashwagon either but the logic here is lacking

[petapan]

yes? i don't think 2740 strongly contradicts what i just said. you also talk about how you suspected midway early, but really you just said he might scum in your early game catchup posts, but ruled him out as being teamed with abr, and then haven't pursued the read at all until today

[petapan]

yo peta IIRC you said that midway is way out of his scumrange here, yet you seem to be pushing them like you scumread them?

i have never expressed that? i've been scumreading him for most of the game. i've seen him now twice as scum and twice as town and feel like this is closer to his scumplay.



i'm partway through rereading, and right now, where i am at is this: i am having a hard time seeing either midway or gamma as town. neither seems to be really scumhunting. i think there's a decent argument to be made that they are teamed. i'm more iffy on who a third possible partner is.

[petapan]

i implied that midway wouldn't do that vote ON A TEAMMATE. reading is tech, to borrow an old vi phrase. if the wagons were t/t i could see him doing it

[petapan]

been putting off finishing my reread. sorry. will try to get to this tomorrow

[petapan]

i'm here i've just been kind of infused with a creeping dread and paralytic indecision as i look the game over and over and get basically nowhere with it because my reads lately have been very bad

[petapan]

yeah reading them i think iv's points on gamma make sense, i think, and i really didn't like how gamma sort of latched on to me earlier in the day when i was paranoia-ing at iv

[petapan]

i came to the conclusion i have 0 idea how to read dv

[petapan]

i think i just need to get over myself and do it because i'm not going to find reason to townread him

part of my paranoia has been wonder if it actually could be as simple as gamma/dv/ico because i thought it didn't feel like it but reading back i didn't find reason that

couldn't

be the team. and that made me nervous on my midwaybear read because i've been suspecting him all game, but it's like it was said to me, you're in xylim for a reason, and i'm wondering if that reason is because i've been tunneling him. i dunno.

[petapan]

i guess yeah but that's usually what i tell myself and end up voting frong anyway

[petapan]

i skimmed his iso one last time to be sure and didn't see enough to make me doubt myself

VOTE: gamma emerald

[petapan]

Who did Vp Baltar visit last night?

i don't think anyone claimed it? so probably a scumread. but i don't see why scum wouldn't claim it either since obviously the kill wasn't blocked so idfk

[petapan]

yeah reading back again midway tried to push a limp scumread on gamma day 2 and gamma just sort of ignored it, has 12 mentions total of gamma in his ISO. gamma called midway scum early but backed out of it because of a goofy non-partner read with ABR, they've just been sort of dancing around naming each other as suspects but never putting any serious weight behind it. i was being dumb again i just can't help freaking out about everything

[petapan]

i don't actually get why that looks unaligned? it's just dv agreeing with gamma. there's no friction there at all.

[petapan]

meanwhile, datisi even softed being a PR on D2, and im sure the scumteam can think of reasons to kill Datisi potential strong PR like Ascetic X over lol!FriendlyNeighbor. we don't have all the information as town, maybe they're informed, maybe XYZ idefk.

actually didn't ico explicitly say he thought datisi was ascetic lmao

[petapan]

nothing to say to me gamma?

[petapan]

i mean i'm voting you and unless you think i'm scum i would expect...something? addressing me

[petapan]

what i'm looking for is some semblance of trying to scumhunt? should i be direct quoting from your iso or what because my feeling is you've been coasting and the self-meta doesn't do a whole lot for me

a really bad solve (me/IV/mwb)

I’ve literally moved past that atp
THIS BITCH AIN’T EVEN READING THE THREAD ANYMORE

i feel like you "moved past that" as a response to the thread climate more than anything

[petapan]

well no because in a universe where we're both town he could still ask me to unvote (assuming he's postulating dv or ico are scum) and i would expect that appeal if he actually townreads me, but instead he just kind of bit back at me

[petapan]

Mmm ok. I'm still leaning towards Gamma, but I'll skim through ISOs

Guys

i don't know what you're trying to say there, the fact that he won't vote his supposed scumread says enough to me

[petapan]

no but i think the way he reacted isn't how town would react

[petapan]

okay so peta, are you just deciding on gamma/mwb/ico vs gamma/mwb/dv for the solve?

that's pretty much where i'm at if i stop tinfoiling but actually trying to settle on a 3rd stresses me too much to think about it and i don't want to just blindly name someone and have that get sheeped

[petapan]

im not wording this well but what i mean is that, if DV is town, scum's agenda is certainly to set up DV for a miselim, regardless of how they try to do that

one such vector, that I'm positing above, is that they bus Gamma, gamma flips (so gamma is intentionally giving up rn to set up the narrative for Gamma/DV/? team), then we flashwagon DV the next day to stall Ico v MWB, and then scum wins on DV's flip

VOTE: dunn

i'm town

DV and dunn are scum

oh lol well there it is

[petapan]

you realize that a dunn/dv/midway team probably hammers my vote here, right

not to mention that the end of day 3 is patently absurd from that perspective

[petapan]

i guess you're hoping to paranoia someone onto dunn today b/c people were getting too close to naming the team? lmao

[petapan]

i guess you're hoping to paranoia someone onto dunn today b/c people were getting too close to naming the team? lmao

wait you scumread me????

that dunn vote + defending gamma i'm taking as a scumclaim, yes

[petapan]

at this point it just looks like you are hoping someone gets scared and votes dunn (it certainly won't be me)

[petapan]

i think midwaybaer has to be "fine" with it because he's forced himself into a scumread of gamma and can't really see himself going back on it but he was reluctant to even so much as place a vote there when there were already two on

[petapan]

i really don't have the patience to wake up and wade through 50 posts of pure noise from iconeum now

[petapan]

i really don't have the patience to wake up and wade through 50 posts of pure noise from iconeum now

holy fucking shit are you kidding me

fine

i'm out for today

go congratulate yourselves with how you caught gamma and me

i'll give the credit to other people given that i didn't have anything on you despite suspecting that one claim was fake, but thanks?

[petapan]

iv this is just AtE because he doesn't have any actual logical arguments to back gamma-town please don't be swayed by any of this

[petapan]

is midway even trying atp

thought you were ready to vote gamma?

[petapan]

bus your scumbuddy for me, midway, and i promise to kill you last

[petapan]

oh fuck my life

[petapan]

i'm sorry everyone

[petapan]

i should have gone with my first instinct

i can't believe i let midwaybear get away with this

[petapan]

i'm sorry everyone

Why?

you know what you just did dude

[petapan]

midway+ico+dunn

why did people rule out dunn ugh god dammit why does this always happen to me

we were so close...

[petapan]

goodbye mafiascum

its not your fault, please dont go

[petapan]

should've just gotten midwaybear who was literally openwolfing

idk if we could've gotten iconeum over gamma D5

if we somehow did, and peta made it to f3 i would've been super suspicious of peta ?

meh, this was a long and unlikely path to town victory

well played scumteam

this was precisely why i was hesitant to bus and just let town make the first move

[petapan]

Also, did you guys like the setup?

i thought it was townsided but i appreciate how you have made it a mission for yourself to take the concept of "normal" and stretch it beyond the point of absurdity

[petapan]

I wouldn't have voted for peta

in f3, anything is possible

[petapan]

goodbye mafiascum

Pls don't lol

Like for real, you played well

i just want to add that i feel like iv in particular was right more often than anyone and it was a huge thorn in my side to have him come in as we were trying to instigate a town death spiral have him go "why can't these people both be town"

really innocentvillager is good and just needs to be more confident

[petapan]

i considered it effectively a mis-elimination even if it wasn't a wagon. not perfectly accurate since it wasnt my vig shot but w/e