Mini Normal 2180 | Fake Peoples | Endgame

[VP Baltar]

i claim mason with a guilty on baltar!

VOTE: baltar

What's weirder is we are masons together.

VOTE: gamma for getting killed N1 like a pleb

[VP Baltar]

told ya I'm coming for u.

Gonna have to NK me scum

[VP Baltar]

Hahaha, I keep zooming in on this fake face and finding all the bad computer things. The teeth and hat are cracking me up. Best flavor I've seen in awhile.

[VP Baltar]

I've known VPB from before you were born Noraa, no one's helping you.

Hate to side with ABR since he ruined my first scum game back, but this is true.

[VP Baltar]

that game hurt my soul bruh. I'm not linking it -____-

i heard you outperformed all expectations

you talking about the game she was scum with Reck?

[VP Baltar]

she lost in lylo

not mafia sunny then!

[VP Baltar]

I think Noraa is townie and seems relaxed

If this is a wrong assumption say it now

she hasn't really faced any pressure yet. Why wouldn't she be relaxed?

[VP Baltar]

strong impressions is something she relies upon

you mean like she relies on to read other people or her impressions is what people rely on to read her?

[VP Baltar]

i was about to ask that but midway beat me to it so instead, the first townlean of the game goes to midway!!

Would scum!Datisi say this? I don't think it serves him any value as scum here.

Seems like a townie thing to say, but shrug

[VP Baltar]

i was about to ask that but midway beat me to it so instead, the first townlean of the game goes to midway!!

Would scum!Datisi say this? I don't think it serves him any value as scum here.

Seems like a townie thing to say, but shrug

hello sir do you have an opinion you would like to say

You mean on your alignment? No. I don't have any real reads yet

[VP Baltar]

doen't have to be on *my* alignment. like, the fact that you made 62 in the first place makes me think there was some sorta Significant Thought happening somewhere (because why else make the post) and i'm wondering what it is

Just trying to get some chatter and interaction going. Midway asked a question that didn't seem addressed to anyone in particular and I was around.

[VP Baltar]

I wouldn't describe it as empty. Interacting with people is how I get a sense of what people are thinking. Plus, you never know what could help spark a reaction that moves the game forward out of rvs.

Do you think it is scummy to answer open questions?

[VP Baltar]

Interacting with people is how I get a sense of what people are thinking.

Who were you interacting with there?

You. It was your question lol

[VP Baltar]

(like midway didn't even know you were interacting with him there)

What planet does this even make sense when I quoted and replied to him?

As far as why I answered: I felt like it.

I disagree it is completely NAI. I said I think it is a townie thing to say, but the "shrug" basically meant it is very early and I wouldn't be willing to read your alignment out of that.

[VP Baltar]

that's not an interaction that furthers into other interactions

And yet, here we are...


@noraa - I think datisi is just tired after running a bunch of marathon games and is probably just nudging me to do something more.

[VP Baltar]

i've never played with him but that's exactly how i expect him to play

What are you basing that on?

[VP Baltar]

@noraa - I think datisi is just tired after running a bunch of marathon games and is probably just nudging me to do something more.

why are you pre-emptively defending me

Because you're acting hyper aggressive over nothing to generate interaction probably.

[VP Baltar]

@noraa - I think datisi is just tired after running a bunch of marathon games and is probably just nudging me to do something more.

why are you pre-emptively defending me

I thought the opposite. I actually thought he was discrediting you to some extent.

It was more just like "here is what I'm seeing." I guess it could be discrediting in the sense that it is me saying 'dats, you so crazy.'

I just meant it mostly as like, 'this behavior is over the top, but I see a rational explanation for it'

[VP Baltar]

Because you're acting hyper aggressive over nothing to generate interaction probably.

i'm acting hyper-aggressive? maybe it's the issue that the rest of you cannot hear the tone that i have for my posts in my head because that was very much not the intention

I don't think you're being mean or anything. Just that you are going HARD because I replied to midwaybear.

[VP Baltar]

i feel like there's something very wrong with the baltar/noraa interactions here but it's probably me being annoyed at both of them for different reasons

Why are you annoyed with me?

Why are you annoyed with noraa?

[VP Baltar]

I get that he is going hard against Cakez, but the wording in his posts doesn't really indicate belief.

I agree with this. I wouldn't even say he is going hard on Cakez. Seems like kid gloves.

[VP Baltar]

So you've adapted your playstyle? Would you say you would be more fiery as scum here?

this game player list is like baby yoda man. i wanna hug each and every one of you. you are not scary. you make me happy.

So why did you go so hard in Revelations? That player list made me happy and you made my scum team go through living hell immediately that game

[VP Baltar]

So why did you go so hard in Revelations? That player list made me happy and you made my scum team go through living hell immediately that game

LOL yeah I fucked shit up that game. I was angry and determined to win. Now I try to be more friendly and help people enjoy the game more. Winning isn't everything, the real joy is in having a good time and meeting new people. Lockdown has been a bitch.

Haha, this is absolutely not an attitude I have ever seen from ABR.

Doesn't feel AI since I expect you to be unconventional, but still fascinating.

[VP Baltar]

shut up im getting into character. gotta give the people what they want!

I'm actually more intrigued to see bizzaro world ABR tbh

[VP Baltar]

ill probably have to do a heel turn when we start losing LMAO

I'll allow it

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Gamma emerald

Huh?

[VP Baltar]

Hey VPB, what're your reads so far?

Town pings on noraa, datisi and midway.

Mayyyybe slight scum on unwind, but I don't trust it because I just played a bunch of marathons with them and I caught them as scum there.

Nothing too serious yet. You?

[VP Baltar]

I almost hesitated because I find myself voting him early but this time it's merited

Tell me more. I'm not an expert at reading gamma. That post didn't feel scummy to me, but maybe it is a meta thing?

[VP Baltar]

unwind

EBWOP: ping.


Autocorrect gets my fat fingers again

[VP Baltar]

Oh no sorry that was unwnd not ping. my correx need correx

[VP Baltar]

Nothing too serious yet. You?

Nora's obviously town. Gamma's scummy for supporting votes on me, & unwnd's towny for voting Gamma.

which games have you played with noraa-scum, pray tell?

Mafia Sunny. Against my better judgement, I helped yeet gamma over noraa in 3p Xylo. I brought great shame upon myself for that one. But noraa played well in the final day

[VP Baltar]

what. What. WHAT. When the fuck did gamma ever give reads like this as town?

Trying to imitate someone else's style for funsies

You willing to say who?

[VP Baltar]

Nothing too serious yet. You?

Nora's obviously town. Gamma's scummy for supporting votes on me, & unwnd's towny for voting Gamma.

which games have you played with noraa-scum, pray tell?

Mafia Sunny. Against my better judgement, I helped yeet gamma over noraa in 3p Xylo. I brought great shame upon myself for that one. But noraa played well in the final day

Sorry, 4p Xylo. So I guess I wasn't alone being incorrect there

[VP Baltar]

I highly doubt that you can read Noraa, her friendliness is NAI, she seems like she slip by right under your nose if you were an informed cop, and your chainsaw defense of your fake townread screams scum to me.

This feels like too much justification for voting me, but maybe you believe it. Not sure.

Do you always just OMGUS everyone who nudges at you?

[VP Baltar]

You find ABR scummy independently or you just trusting mwb here?

[VP Baltar]

If you had to sum it up in a couple reasons, those would be?

[VP Baltar]

@baltar/peta: mind talking to me about your unwnd scumpings/vote?

Mine was for something very specific I'd rather not expound upon right now unless it seems urgent. Want to let it marinate.

More generally, I don't think unwnd comes out the "winner" in this back and forth with gamma. I'm not certain I find it scummy exactly. Unwnd could be town here who just has very strong viewpoints on how the game should be played. But gamma's explanation feels fairly town to me and unwnd kept pushing like there was something there.

[VP Baltar]

I will maybe do something sometime

You gonna be one of these posters all game?

[VP Baltar]

Datisi -- I'd be interested to hear if you have any Shoshin or ABR takes.

[VP Baltar]

do you have history with her?

No, which isn't helpful. The questions coming from her feel a little thin, but it is early.

[VP Baltar]

hrm, i asked because 200 feels... weirdly out of place if you don't have meta? oh well.

Yeah, it seemed like a weird thing to say unless maybe she is sussing me? Idk.

[VP Baltar]

going back to that post, i see in response you had townpings on midway? tl;dr on that?

He has been pretty eager to engage with people and put his opinions out there, even if they aren't strong ones yet.

[VP Baltar]

Can I get a link to a recent scum game of yours Datisi?

[VP Baltar]

nvm shoshin hasn't played much recently. but anyways, I do think shoshin does this as either alignment.

Based upon what...

[VP Baltar]

We can do this the easy way or the hard way and I know you guys like the latter better, so I will let you guys discuss for a week, and then come back and wrangle the votes I need to kill scum like Shoshin.

Why wait ?

VOTE: shoshin

[VP Baltar]

VPB, what're your concerns about me?

You're coasting and asking surface level questions to look busy.

[VP Baltar]

These seemingly innocuous questions have caught a lot of scum. I believe they're effective & efficient precisely because they seem harmless.

I understand the value of questions like that. I use that strategy myself.

However, the problem here is there was really almost no content in the game when you started doing this. You can't catch scum in the RVS stage like that because there aren't any interactions to check the results against, nor does it move the game forward. That's why it comes across as fake to me.

[VP Baltar]

you were actively leading discussion

I was?

[VP Baltar]

. I highly doubt VP or Peta have bad reads tho.

I'm perfect of course, but I won't be assured of my reads until we get a flip and some concrete info tbh.

Why Peta?

[VP Baltar]

VP, your engagement level towards me is interesting but I too am not ready to call what it means exactly. You started off with saying that you caught me in that marathon yet I think marathons bode well with just gut feelings. It doesn't seem like you're thinking like that however towards me

Rvs bodes well for gut reads too. In fact, my biggest shortcoming is that I don't trust my gut reads enough

[VP Baltar]

VP, your engagement level towards me is interesting but I too am not ready to call what it means exactly. You started off with saying that you caught me in that marathon yet I think marathons bode well with just gut feelings. It doesn't seem like you're thinking like that however towards me

Rvs bodes well for gut reads too. In fact, my biggest shortcoming is that I don't trust my gut reads enough

Plus I have the benefit that you were just coming off marathon play, so you were in that mindset already.

It's woo woo, I know. That's why I am second guessing myself

[VP Baltar]

it's to subtly but not too obviously indicate my slowly developing SR on you

Lol cake gets town points for this dunk

[VP Baltar]

iv is like a Not_Mafia alt, right?

[VP Baltar]

iv is like a Not_Mafia alt, right?

No he's not normally like this he's usually very thoughtful

That's weird then

[VP Baltar]

I was never going to go into you, I just retained some thoughts earlier such as you baiting Dat with his poor pressure

I was baiting Dats? How so?

[VP Baltar]

Reading your interaction a bit earlier I felt like you were giving him loaded questions

The whole thing started with him saying you were pre-emptively defending him, which in turn lead to you being a stern

It's surprising in hindsight that Dat didn't incur a bit of whiplash from that

This is wildly different than how I read that exchange.

What did I say that sounded stern?

[VP Baltar]

I'll reiterate that

You give off this vibe of join date experience when it comes to interacting with some fresher accounts. Your posts seem to come from a place where you know better, therefore the questionable actions you would take in the eyes of someone like Dat should already be explained

I mean, I guess I could see how it is perceived that way, especially since I said it seemed like Datisi was overreacting rather than attacking him back.

Definitely don't let the join date fool you though. I took a 7 year break from mafia and feel like I've played bad in lots of games since I came back. The site changes over time and I'm definitely a time traveler from the 1800s while you all have iPhones and hoverboards. I'm still learning how to play again.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah iv is probably scum

What makes you get that impression? Should we yeet iv over shoshin?

[VP Baltar]

My question to you is then do you feel you got something out of it? Your interaction with Dat

I guess I don't agree with you that I was the one pushing that interaction.

That aside, I think Datisi looked town to come back later and reconsider whether what he was saying actually had merits.

[VP Baltar]

VPB, I addressed your concerns about me. You're voting me for things that I always do as town. Is there some reason you think my meta doesn't apply in this game?

So you self meta'd and that's why I should believe you're town? If you're aware of your meta, you can play against. And I don't think what I said had much at all to do with meta. It was more about you doing scumhunting that had little value.

[VP Baltar]

Oh shoot he changed his avatar.

It's getting serious now

[VP Baltar]

Nothing too serious yet. You?

Nora's obviously town.

Gamma's scummy for supporting votes on me,

& unwnd's towny for voting Gamma.

VOTE: Noraa

I also find this scummy from ABR.

discrediting people who vote you by implying they’re scum

I didn't say anyone was scummy for voting me.

I said that voting me during RVS isn't reason to read someone as town. I was questioning your thought process, not the person who voted me. Why would voting me be towny? It still doesn't make sense to me.

I actually facepalmed at this

Please soshin lol

If you're town, ABR, you're embarrassing yourself right now.

Why did you say this when from what I can see you never stopped having a scumread on him

This post and the series leading up to it from unwnd are strong posts. Scum would want to be giving Shoshin a free pass here because the wagon is fast, regardless of Shoshin's alignment.

Unwnd keeps pushing and pointing out the waffling from Shoshin. I like it

[VP Baltar]

These seemingly innocuous questions have caught a lot of scum. I believe they're effective & efficient precisely because they seem harmless.

I understand the value of questions like that. I use that strategy myself.

However, the problem here is there was really almost no content in the game when you started doing this. You can't catch scum in the RVS stage like that because there aren't any interactions to check the results against, nor does it move the game forward. That's why it comes across as fake to me.

You are using a disagreement on mafia theory to imply Shoshin is being inauthentic

Bzzt, wrong.

I'm saying Shoshin is trying to convince me asking fluffy questions early is actually her setting up a scum trap....and that's just false. It's not theoretical, it's about what she actually did this game.

The question is whether she is just not great at scumhunting early in the game as town or whether she is scum trying to coast.

[VP Baltar]

Shoshin thinks that she has to act like "she doesn't care" as scum and that will get her through the day. It's ridiculously transparent. Caught scum doesn't understand why she's caught. We eject her and bask in the towncred tomorrow. First round of drinks on me, everyone!

Why wouldn't scum kill you?

Why did you ask this question?

[VP Baltar]

my (probable) townread on Shoshin has nothing to do with Shoshin's meta.

Interesting. What are you town reading Shoshin on?

[VP Baltar]

And yes. I don't want people to town read me based on meta, I want them to stop calling my typical behaviors scummy when they're just my way of playing.

"My way of playing" = meta.

And if not, please explain the difference to me

[VP Baltar]

I also hinted that I'm suspicious of VPB/ABR for continuing to vote me despite the meta evidence.

Lol you just said one post before you weren't making a meta defense.

[VP Baltar]

so, iv is my strongest scumread currently. unfortunately, he has the bad case of lurk, my vote isn't making him play, and i don't think my persuasion skills are good enough to convince the town to start voting him on the basis of ~nothing~. so my vote on him is wasting away

It's weird, but is it scummy. The fact other people are like "this is not how iv plays" gives me pause.

Posting restrictions aren't a thing in normals are they?

[VP Baltar]

they are not, no.

I could be open to running iv up and seeing the response. I've certainly gotten nothing out of him that is particularly interesting or good so far.

I'd like to wait to see where we are with the Shoshin wagon though. The speed means scum have had to take positions on this.

Shoshin hasn't comported herself well under pressure, though tbf, I could see town flailing as well if they are weak about responding to pressure

[VP Baltar]

My Noraa-Cakez-unwnd townblock still exists fyi

I don't even disagree with these reads, but for some reason I HATE this post.

It feels reachy and overeager.

[VP Baltar]

iv flipping scum implies shoshin being town

Tell me more

[VP Baltar]

interesting take. I think most scums win because town thinks they wouldn't do blahblahblah tho ya'know?

You think ABR is scum here?

[VP Baltar]

Yeah I don't think he's in a comfortable position right now

Couldn't be any more comfy muh dude

[VP Baltar]

what's the deal with the faces on every vc? Are they AI generated? What's that got to do with fake people? Are they lying somehow?

They are AI generated. If you zoom in, you can see all kinds of hilarious artifacts

[VP Baltar]

the more you wanna kill me the more I townread you

This is some scum shit to say to WIFOM doubt

[VP Baltar]

that is why this kinda behaviour makes me think that if iv is scum, shoshin isn't, because in that world, the game is going smoothly without his presence. he doesn't *need* to actually post anything meaningful. him voting shoshin definitely won't discourage albert from pushing her through, but it's not a vote that gives towncred if she flips red?

I found this part fairly compelling.

I'm not ready to take the heat off Shoshin right now, but I don't think your instincts are wrong here.

The only thing giving me doubt is that sometimes town players try stupid style gambits. I have no idea what IV is doing, but I definitely noticed he suddenly started engaging when I said I might be open to joining you there.

[VP Baltar]

Vp talk to me. ur the only calming voice in this chaos *gestures vaguely*

What do you want to talk about?

I mean, they probably both aren't scum here. I'd suspect some number of scum are in the background right now if it is Shoshin. If Shoshin is town, I'm mostly going to be scanning the pile of people trying to stay off the wagon for flimsy reasons.

[VP Baltar]

I mean, they probably both aren't scum here.

you said u liked Dat's case but wanted to stay on shoshin.
so, you think shoshin more likely scum?

I think Shoshin hasn't responded to pressure is a very townie way, and why would we dismantle a good wagon for no reason when that's the case?

I think she is certainly scummy.

[VP Baltar]

I'd suspect some number of scum are in the background right now if it is Shoshin. If Shoshin is town, I'm mostly going to be scanning the pile of people trying to stay off the wagon for flimsy reasons.

What's the difference between the two? I also don't really think the second reason is particularly valid.

Scum have to make a quick decision on speed wagons. If Shoshin is town, they are more likely to stay off the wagon if it is town driven.

IDK for sure about ABR, but I'm definitely town.

Why do you think that's not valid?


Pedit - lol ok

[VP Baltar]

Scum have to make a quick decision on speed wagons. If Shoshin is town, they are more likely to stay off the wagon if it is town driven.

Why wouldn't scum be bussing Shoshin at this point? If she is town, I feel like there is going to more scum on the wagon. That's why I don't think people off wagon are necessarily scum.

Having been in this exact position as scum opposite ABR in Revelations, I can confidently say the decision to bus is a hard one when the wagon happens super fast.

In that game, I made the choice to bus my buddy Aero, but my other buddies hemmed and hawed and it was a shit show. Plus since this is the first wagon, scum wouldn't be wrong to assume it falls apart 9/10 times.

[VP Baltar]

My Noraa-Cakez-unwnd townblock still exists fyi

I don't even disagree with these reads, but for some reason I HATE this post.

It feels reachy and overeager.

Didn’t you yourself try to form a townblock in MafiaSunny?
Kinda hypocritical don’t you think?

I did, but I was Friendly Neighbor in that game and was kind of winking at that early on because I knew I'd be confirmed town by D2. Unless you're claiming FN here.....

[VP Baltar]

I feel like im going to get wagoned tomorrow regardless of the shoshin flip.

Huh?

[VP Baltar]

So one flipped scum (auro) and the other managed to escape town's wrath for a few days lol

It was me and I was cruising because no one believed it could have been SvS. I only got outted because my buddies were shitting up the whole game (no offense to them, it was a stacked town player list that would have been hard either way).

[VP Baltar]

I have a lot of stuff to address so this will take time. I'll get to it later tonight.

I don't think there is a lot to address here really

[VP Baltar]

the point of pressure is to not give room, to force scum into making a quick decision, not giving them time to fabricate a fakeclaim and get feedback from their buddies

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: innocentvillager

Noraa -- thoughts on gamma?

Gamma -- thoughts on noraa?

[VP Baltar]

I literally did not believe shoshin was scum.

When did you arrive at that point?

[VP Baltar]

what in the world is going on now. lol, trying to do work and keep up with the nonsense here ok

[VP Baltar]

let's just hear from Ico today before we get too crazy please.

The claim seems very particular to be made up whole cloth. There are certainly elements of truth in it.

[VP Baltar]

bah

Thank you for your service

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:

need to ponder the tracker claim

[VP Baltar]

i find it super questionable that all 3 could be town prs but i'll wait to see what cakez says

I don't think cakez should necessarily claim yet. I don't follow the "this has to be scum" logic.

[VP Baltar]

if i said what it was right now you'd probably fucking kill me

i'm just giving a warning that if he claims [role] there will be zero chill from me

it's doctor, right

stop

[VP Baltar]

I'm caught up now and don't know what to think. Balance wise is a big shrug to me give the craziness of the roles, which seems to be the hinge of ABR"s argument for scum!Cakez.

ABR, explain to me in really simple terms why Cakez wouldn't use detective powers on midway as town.

pedit -- also, I think the game would benefit from not spamming a shit ton of pages while there are several people who aren't caught up. I had to skim a ton just to get close to caught up.

[VP Baltar]

This is the most angry mafia has made me in years.

I WAS HAPPY WITH THIS PLAYER LIST. I FELT WELCOME.

YOU BETRAYED ME. YOU DISLOYAL WRETCH.

Lol

[VP Baltar]

Fwiw, this would be a hell of a gambit by ABR. So I'm skeptical he is anything but town here. I'm willing to let him keep IV alive as well and track away.

Question is if Cakez is telling the truth here or not.

[VP Baltar]

who else is/was in your scumpool?

pedit: @baltar

I was pretty interested in gamma/noraa for their play around the Shoshin wagon.

Honestly, I just voted IV at the start of the day because the way you came out seemed like a cop guilty. Now here we are.

[VP Baltar]

. He comes in with a game plan for his lies,

What was Cakez plan in your eyes?

[VP Baltar]

Cakez, ABR's case on you isn't terrible. Why did you target midway when he wasn't a "scum Lord"?

[VP Baltar]

Haha autocorrect

[VP Baltar]

Shoshin (7) :

VP Baltar ; Datisi ; unwnd

; midwaybear ;

Innocentvillager

; Gamma Emerald ;

Albert B. Rampage

If I accept my worldview and ABR's worldview, that's an extremely small amount of unknown on the Shoshin wagon.

I want to say Cakez also shit on me for saying I'd look for people softpeddling off the the wagon if Shoshin flipped green?

[VP Baltar]

I'd suspect some number of scum are in the background right now if it is Shoshin. If Shoshin is town, I'm mostly going to be scanning the pile of people trying to stay off the wagon for flimsy reasons.

What's the difference between the two? I also don't really think the second reason is particularly valid.

Nm, it was midway who said that nonsense

[VP Baltar]

9/12 since shoshin wont self vote. 75% of playerlist were down to lynch shoshin so dont expect scum on the final vote count.

Yeah, I agree with this premise

[VP Baltar]

Basically in a nutshell, her town play there convinced me that her empty questions weren't town indicative.
But I was also worried she was one of those players that I could never SR.
I ended up flip flopping a shit ton trying to decide what was the best play.
I caved to ABR.
Later regretted a lil.
Stayed firm regardless.
Decided to leave wagon to give her space.

who was this even directed at and why did you write it?

[VP Baltar]

Guys lets have a discussion about cakez

Could be scum. You make good points. I don't want to clog the thread up with that too much more rn so people can catch up. I don't think Cakez is off the table for a yeet today

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Shoshin
You got it

I wanna do intent >:O

intent

Ok so here is my take on Shoshin.
Everyone SRed her for asking pretty empty questions at the beginning. That is NOT a scum tell for her. I believe, tho I am not 100% sure, that she will do that as either alignment.
Looking back, I think maybe I slightly agree she started asking them a little too early for me to feel comfortable about it.
But still, using her own meta, overall, at that time she was a null town lean.
Then I started realizing she had no reads.
This is not that crazily uncommon on this site at that stage but for shoshin its not really her town meta at all.
Most of her posts were fluffy and defensive and that's just waaaay out of her town meta.
I started doing a 180 but ABR's aggressive ass pushes gave me lots of pause.
I feel like im going to get wagoned tomorrow regardless of the shoshin flip.
Thats not the end of the world but here I have explained my progression and hope people will understand how I approached this.

This is some serious BS from Noraa on the Shoshin wagon. She goes from intent> major waffle post above > Shoshin was obv town how could you! in twilight.


It's also not long after this Noraa post above that Cakez starts criticizing the Shoshin wagon (followed by being super dramatic after the hammer).

[VP Baltar]

Lot of pages over night, and glad Ico is finally here. I think their entrance into the game was towny on the whole given willingness to share hip reads and corner themselves immediately into ~

information

~

[VP Baltar]

Need to get my work day started and then I'll do a little catch up.

[VP Baltar]

Lot of pages over night, and glad Ico is finally here. I think their entrance into the game was towny on the whole given willingness to share hip reads and corner themselves immediately into ~

information

~

would agree his intro is good on the whole, have some things i'd quibble with e.g. the midwaybear read but his reasoning for getting there wasn't bad. i am a little concerned about the softclaiming stuff though? b/c i have recently seen scum try to vaguely hint at pr stuff to try to get an execution through on a claimed town pr without explicitly counterclaiming

You think Ico could be softing to direct us toward the Cakez/IV/ABR stuff?

[VP Baltar]

Ok so I'm basically not even gonna read. Im skimming up and if there's anything actually important, it'll have to be quoted.

I'm hating this attitude and it seems fake

[VP Baltar]

Peta - hit me with this gut reads. Don't feel like I've got much interaction with you yet this game.

What do you think of the Shoshin wagon? Is it even worth hunting scum on there?

If you had to vig someone rn out of the IV/ABR/Cakez pool, would you? And if so, who?

Thoughts on noraa?

[VP Baltar]

I want to hear from DV. I get lurker scum vibes there.

Especially when "world's greatest player" Shoshin was hyping them as "world's second greatest player."

[VP Baltar]

datisi do you think scum would roleblock me on N1 this game?

Not addressed to me, but it does occur to me given the setup craziness I've seen so far that there is no guarantee the roleblock came from scum.

Could be a separate town power or something tied to another role as a negative utility?

It'd be weird for scum to block you N1 given there was already at least one obvious soft from ABR D1.

[VP Baltar]

Someone else mentioned a negative utility role possibly as balance...Peta maybe?

[VP Baltar]

Someone else mentioned a negative utility role possibly as balance...Peta maybe?

i have not done setup spec and would not profess to know anything about normal game balance in 2020, i've been out of the game almost as long as you have

Was someone else then. Yeah, I'm not good at setup spec with the new site meta. Just a thought I guess.

[VP Baltar]

What happens if you target scum again? You die?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Shoshin
You got it

I wanna do intent >:O

intent

Ok so here is my take on Shoshin.
Everyone SRed her for asking pretty empty questions at the beginning. That is NOT a scum tell for her. I believe, tho I am not 100% sure, that she will do that as either alignment.
Looking back, I think maybe I slightly agree she started asking them a little too early for me to feel comfortable about it.
But still, using her own meta, overall, at that time she was a null town lean.
Then I started realizing she had no reads.
This is not that crazily uncommon on this site at that stage but for shoshin its not really her town meta at all.
Most of her posts were fluffy and defensive and that's just waaaay out of her town meta.
I started doing a 180 but ABR's aggressive ass pushes gave me lots of pause.
I feel like im going to get wagoned tomorrow regardless of the shoshin flip.
Thats not the end of the world but here I have explained my progression and hope people will understand how I approached this.

This is some serious BS from Noraa on the Shoshin wagon. She goes from intent> major waffle post above > Shoshin was obv town how could you! in twilight.


It's also not long after this Noraa post above that Cakez starts criticizing the Shoshin wagon (followed by being super dramatic after the hammer).

You see this Noraa? Explain your progression please

[VP Baltar]

Noraa, you and I could yeet Cakez right now. Should we?

[VP Baltar]

Not the response I was expecting.

[VP Baltar]

Noraa

DV, you and I could yeet Cakez right now. Should we?

[VP Baltar]

Also VP Baltar where are you?? You promised me the world and then let me down!

Lol I wasn't going to hammer. Just want you in the game playing.


I DONT KNOW WHETHER CAKEZ IS SCUM. I AM CONSIDERING THIS, BUT YEETING NORAA ALSO SOUNDS KIND OF GOOD TBH

[VP Baltar]

Like part of me thinks noraa is way more likely to be scum here and we can give all the claimed power another night to prove themselves with actual results.

[VP Baltar]

look id rather people have fun and that i lose, than people not having fun and i win. so tell me what you want me to do here.

Idk how much is real emotion and how much is faked in games. I think we can slow the fight between you and Cakez at this point. Both of your positions are clear. In some ways a yeet would be good because it offers a reset, but not everyone operates on high performance mode...so I think that's the frustration you're seeing ABR.

I mean, I'm having fun! But I'm not scum, or being accused of being scum.

[VP Baltar]

Stupidity overload in this game LOL
VOTE: Noraa
come at me.

If you're town unvote yourself. This is just anti-town play if that's the case

[VP Baltar]

Like part of me thinks noraa is way more likely to be scum here and we can give all the claimed power another night to prove themselves with actual results.

i think shes suiciding to protect scum PR...

Possibly. It's weird because I have no experience with noraa acting like this

[VP Baltar]

I don't give two shits if its antitown. It's not like this playerlist is gonna let me live anyways.

Either you're faking here or you should probably take a break from the game and come back later when things feel less heated. This is a pointless line of discussion either way.

[VP Baltar]

Baltar is scum

Incorrect

[VP Baltar]

Plot line: VP Baltar comes home after long day at work and the house is a mess. Toilet paper hangs from the chandelier. All his children are having an emotional meltdown because they all want to be yeeted to the sun, and yet only one can have that honor.

*Curb Your Enthusiasm theme plays as camera zooms in on VPB

[VP Baltar]

I mean, I'm not opposed to this if it ends the drama. So we know what iv and ABR are doing for sure?

[VP Baltar]

I kind of wish we had more content from DV today, so I'm not sure. That is just a lurker guess to me.

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, thoughts on night actions?

[VP Baltar]

Lol @ ico having like 2 hours total in this game so far

[VP Baltar]

i was going to suggest voting outside and letting claims resolve themselves but i really doubt there'd be 2 town investigative roles with that strength and i've been burned by letting scummy pr claims so at this point i'd rather close my eyes and yeet it. don't really find the way cakez was pushing back on abr towny at all.

Obviously the roles in Gypyx games are madness though right? I have zero confidence in what is balanced here. You are right about not letting scummy claims walk though

[VP Baltar]

Where dafuq is gamma and DV?

[VP Baltar]

And midway.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, let's lim Cakez, but let's give Ico another round of posting before we do. That also means midway, gamma and DeasVail can post more before then

[VP Baltar]

interested in any and all takes regarding that

It bugs me and if we lim wrong today, I think I need to reconsider midway along with some of my stronger townreads

[VP Baltar]

I'm on opposite cycle with Ico, so they'll have like 13+ hours before I drop the hammer. If you and Ico decide before then, that's fine too.

[VP Baltar]

that's not an answer

[VP Baltar]

Well, momentum did seem to be shifting towards Noraa. I think you made some good observations specifically in your catch up and I think I'm townreading your indecisive attitude. I feel like you would try to take more control as scum.

Please give me one specific read of peta's that made you think "oh, he's town!"

[VP Baltar]

Wtf is this bullshit

[VP Baltar]

There was literally no reason to not wait for ico

[VP Baltar]

Cakez you got anything to say before thread lock?

[VP Baltar]

Lol sorry sirius. Had to try

[VP Baltar]

Jesus fucking christ is cakez town, am i being trolled here.

What specifically made you think he is town here?

[VP Baltar]

I assumed IV was trolling for some reax and knew his vote was there?

[VP Baltar]

Where dafuq is gamma and DV?

How often do you need me around gosh

All the time. Miss u bb

[VP Baltar]

@gamma& DV: You could -- and hear me out here -- add original lines of questioning to the game.

[VP Baltar]

I don't really have anything left to add here hammer away

No

[VP Baltar]

Whatever. Im out.

See you in 10 minutes

[VP Baltar]

so we gonna put 2 more votes and hammer or nah?

Take a night night. We will hammer in the AM

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: SirC

daddy's hammer

dammit! I just logged on early to do this too.

[VP Baltar]

VP Baltar - I'm honestly so underwhelmed by this slot. There seems to be an over-focus on how much people have posted/how often, which in a fairly high-tempo, high post frequency game like this I think is a lot less important, but something easy for mafia to focus on. Questions often feel more forced (e.g. 979) as if they're coming from a mafia mindset of "hmmm... I should ask a probing question now". I think overall though it's VP's general positioning in the game that is concerning me. He is mediating, asking questions, posting opinions, but there is a real lack of anything there that convinces me he is as invested as town would be. He feels distant, safe, indifferent in some ways.

^This mother is gonna come in here and say I'm not doing anything and then uses points I've made against Noraa to call her scum.

BEEEEE BOOOOOOO SCUM ALERT

[VP Baltar]

If we do get a scum flip, it's probably some combo of Noraa/Gamma/DV left.

If we get a town flip, we probably need to rethink if this is a IV/ABR/midway gambit with an outside chance of Datisi.

[VP Baltar]

How do you do, fellow townies

Hey dunn! Nice to play again. Can I get your reads?

[VP Baltar]

ABR give us those results.

Also thinking we may want to mass claim today.

[VP Baltar]

I half expected to get vig shot so didn't read much

We haven't seen a vig yet...why'd you expect that?

[VP Baltar]

Sure, I’m still town reading the Dunnstral slot, but it’s more tentative. I can’t read ATE very well.

Thoughts on who is scum now that we have seen Cakez flip?

[VP Baltar]

As I mentioned, just going off their read list, DV looks bad

Who else is on the list then?

[VP Baltar]

Oh misread, nm

[VP Baltar]

Better question: how are you judging DV's list if you haven't read? What looks bad on it?

[VP Baltar]

'm very tentatively calling ABR and IV town with IV above ABR in terms of confidence.

Why does the cake flipgive you confidence these two are town?

[VP Baltar]

Better question: how are you judging DV's list if you haven't read? What looks bad on it?

Read on my slot and cakes

And also you didn't feel aligned with them and they have you low

Alright, I'll give you some time to catch up.

Cliff notes are:

D1 = ABR doing ABR things and running up Shoshin quickly. She fake claimed cop as town, then doctor and was appropriately yeeted.

D2 = is A LOT of fluff. ABR claims tracker/motion detector and correctly claims Cakez visited midwaybear N1. They fight for ages on whether this means Cakez is scum, and we get a number of claims or insinuations of claims. Cakez flips town.

You can probably skim some of the stupider fighting, but it'd be good to hear your thoughts on the role madness as soon as possible.

[VP Baltar]

The thing in the middle where he backed down for a bit seemed genuine, and I feel like he would maintain an aggro mentality as scum?

Wasn't that after he thought IV had hammered?

[VP Baltar]

Eh, I find that pretty NAI play for ABR. He plays a very psychological game. Aggro doesn't work with every player to get them to do what you want. Sometimes honey is more effective.

[VP Baltar]

I don't want to speak too strongly about meta because idk what ABR's current meta is. I just know I don't take any "emotion" in his posts too seriously. Perhaps that is wrong of me, but fool me once goldilocks.

[VP Baltar]

I find it weird you believe he is town. The fact he didn't die last night while claiming our strongest investigative role is not a good sign.

[VP Baltar]

while it's certainly on par with "mafia odd-night complex traffic analyst", i kinda doubt scum would have a lazy modifier...

This is an ok point I'm considering

[VP Baltar]

I hate that Ico and I are on completely opposite timezones. This is going to be difficult.

[VP Baltar]

Also rereading Datisi's iso is giving me neurosis by osmosis.

[VP Baltar]

I think a mass claim would be a solid idea today.

Thoughts on order?

[VP Baltar]

Fucking cakez man I was seriously reconsidering his flip and could have saved him

Lol may as well claim scum bud

[VP Baltar]

MY ACTION FAILED

What did your PM from the mod say?

[VP Baltar]

Fucking cakez man I was seriously reconsidering his flip and could have saved him

Lol may as well claim scum bud

The last 2 mislynch don't happen without you.

VOTE: VPB

Lulz

[VP Baltar]

you can discuss where you wanna place me with that in mind in the mass claim order

I should probably decide the order, yes?

[VP Baltar]

Also, will you be around to at least claim this weekend, Ico?

[VP Baltar]

Fucking cakez man I was seriously reconsidering his flip and could have saved him

i don't have much time, weekend vla

did a quick read but this is basicly a scum claim, no?

how is this a scum claim..?

Because he is trying to claim no responsibility for Cakez wagon after he was the main driver of both misyeets.

I can give him a pass on Shoshin, but ABR is very likely scum here. Question is if you are too IV

[VP Baltar]

VPB knows im not gonna stand for this and is gonna 1 v 1 me today

If you're scum, sure will.

[VP Baltar]

Also, we are mass claiming ABR. You're no longer in control of this game. I'm now the boss.

[VP Baltar]

you can discuss where you wanna place me with that in mind in the mass claim order

I should probably decide the order, yes?

that is very much fine with me

I'll wait for Peta to show up and then I'll set the order

[VP Baltar]

VPB knows im not gonna stand for this and is gonna 1 v 1 me today

lol

ur already dead then :p

ha! you havent seen my case on him.

By all means. Please talk about my connections to Gamma/IV or whoever you think are my buddies too please.

[VP Baltar]

No one wins 1 v 1 against me.

Please keep spaghetting, scum.

Which of IV and Gamma is your buddy?

[VP Baltar]

abr - claimed
iv - claimed
midway
peta
ico
vp
noraa slot vt claim?

This seems right

[VP Baltar]

I do think the noraa slot is more likely town after Cakez flip

[VP Baltar]

vpb was there every step of the way dude go read his iso.

like, i'm positive i'm not the only one who will fight a VP flip here

It's cool. I'm enjoying him going off

[VP Baltar]

This is hilarious. Keep going.

[VP Baltar]

i think massclaim may actually be the way to go here

thoughts outside of ABR?

There are absolutely another scum in {IV, Gamma} since those are the two people ABR tried to lump with me there.

[VP Baltar]

*is absolutely

[VP Baltar]

Dunstral is the only cleared slot as far as I'm concerned and I strongly TR petapan. So let's see what happens when they check in.

^the point ABR just realized what is happening, and the complete corner he has painted himself into

[VP Baltar]

PETA -- get your butt in here so midway can start the claims process

[VP Baltar]

there are twodead PRs and two claimed town power roles and iconeum has softed something, he needs to come clean NOW because i guarantee you not all the claims are legitimate

Do you think Ico should claim higher in the proposed claim order?

[VP Baltar]

I'll just call out the claim order as I go I guess.

I think for the first round of claims, people should just say their role and any night actions they performed, but not reveal yet if they have other info based on what happened to them. We will do a second round where we reveal info. I think this gives scum very little to work with given the dynamics of the power roles in play.

First claim will be midway. Go ahead.

(If you're worried about me dictating this, stick with me. My claim will be verified by other players today. I am confirmed town through night actions.)

[VP Baltar]

DV, claim

[VP Baltar]

Interesting gamma hasn't posted yet either

[VP Baltar]

gamma really kind of fell off the map yesterday

Yeah, he has been wallpaper this game and I'm definitely noting it. Was kind of willing to let him do it under our pre-flip D2 state, but less so now.

[VP Baltar]

I’m here, just not sure what to think. Have a thought but wanna save it for later.

Is there stuff you can say that doesn't jeopardize the claim state?

[VP Baltar]

I mean, hit me with those gut reads, no explanation needed

[VP Baltar]

And your thoughts on the Dunn/noraa slot?

Remind me of your early town pool?

[VP Baltar]

Not inclined to trust ABR. Noraa I guess might be worth suspicion despite at one point being in the townblock. As I said, not sure about much.

Thought you wanted to yeet noraa yesterday? Am I misremembering?

[VP Baltar]

Gamma claim