Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame
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Although I can't sign off on this vote, I approve of the nickname.
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You live up to your name, Yeet!In post 64, Yeet wrote:I also wouldn’t mind getting Datisi hammered soon.- tenebrousluminary
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You give off an impression of being experienced yourself, yet seemingly are not?In post 87, fireisredsir wrote:why does frogster sound so NEW, it's weird vibes for a 2011 join date- tenebrousluminary
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Did you feel pressured by one vote?In post 93, Datisi wrote:tenebro on the other hand walked in, saw that i'm getting pressure, dropped a vote on me based on weak reasoning, and left.
Are you expecting strong reasoning so early in the game?- tenebrousluminary
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I considered responding to your answers to my questions, but I decided that your answers made my point for me.In post 137, Datisi wrote:
because he did not show what i think town usually shows around making a vote like that - like where's the sorting when he's already keen on making srs reads? why does he seem to be fading in the background after making it? he made like, one throwaway questions post at me and that's it. it feels more like scum trying to fulfill their "solving quota" than town genuinely feeling the game if that makes senseIn post 128, skitter30 wrote:i'm not sure why you're ascribing scum motivation to it and not just viewing it as a 'town voting the first thing that pinged them outside of rvs' sort of vote
also like, i'll let you in on a little secret: i was not as sure on this read as i gave the impression of being at the time... the responses haven't been Good though imho- tenebrousluminary
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I see a contradiction here. If you really were so unconcerned about this push, you would not need to dismiss it this way.In post 180, Datisi wrote:
anyone who thinks they can lockscum me on page 2 is lying either to themselves or to everyone elseIn post 170, Yeet wrote:Datisi do you think I am meme-pushing you? Is that why you feel rather unaffected by my push on you? I can assure you that I am not memeing with this push on you.
you may not be meming but the push itself is a meme- tenebrousluminary
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Is that not what I have been doing?In post 198, Aristeia wrote:
would you like to talk about game related things?In post 195, tenebrousluminary wrote:I didn't want to interrupt Datisi and Aristeia while they were having fun, but taking refuge in non-game conversations early on is a tactic I have seen mafia use often. Now that Aristeia has voted me, I regret being considerate!
If you mean you wish to open a dialogue with me, go ahead.- tenebrousluminary
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This may be true. I don't plan to completely ignore your experience, but I also am unsure whether I want to let this sort of argument bias how I read players in this game. I think each game can have a unique shape. I am also wary of allowing experienced players to get a leg up by saying this sort of thing, given that I do not plan to fact check any such claims. Players like myself and Yeet do not have this option available. Am I doing us a disservice if I do not question such arguments?In post 200, skitter30 wrote:@tenebro that's just kinda their dynamic, and its nai, they did the same (as tvt) in the recentky concluded 'bunnies' mini normal- tenebrousluminary
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Why shouldn't it? Everyone wants to talk about me! I'm drinking in the attention! Plus, I can't get any information from how players approach me if there is universal agreement about me. That's boring.In post 209, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
why does this excite youIn post 130, tenebrousluminary wrote:I'm already controversial. How exciting!- tenebrousluminary
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I don't remember doing this. What do you mean?In post 248, fua wrote:I scumread Tenebro hard based on 116 and the attempt to defuse suspicion by essentially saying it’s just a bandwagon- tenebrousluminary
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It seems to me that I'm not being attacked for any position, only the way I said it. If there is a case against me beyond "post 116 is bad," I do not know what it is, nor do I know how to respond to that alone.In post 264, fua wrote:Nobody should agree with votes on them. That doesn’t mean anything. If you’re a townie then you getting miselimmed would mean two of us dying. I feel like multiple people voting you for a post should at least make you want to defend your position there instead of digging further into Datisi. It’s not dismissive of individual people so much as it is the case against you and the fact you’re being suspected.
I don't think you're hearing that post in the way I meant it. Being a good listener is hearing everyone, taking in everyone's viewpoint even if I suspect them, and being kind. Listening need not come at the exclusion of speaking, particularly in a forum setting.In post 264, fua wrote:Saying that you want to be quiet and listen (AKA ‘lurk’) doesn’t exactly put me at ease either.- tenebrousluminary
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It seems like you are simultaneously demanding that I be defensive and demanding that I go on an offensive in order to satisfy you.
Convincing you is not at the top of my priority list right now anyway, thank you. I am planning to engage with more people and trying to hunt, but you are the one who said I was being dismissive. Suspecting me for responding to it seems at odds with your point that I am suspicious for not responding to the suspicions of others.- tenebrousluminary
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Thank you, but I plan to play the game my way. I'm sorry if that does not line up with your ideas about townie behavior.In post 267, fua wrote:Like. If you take issue with votes on you, then start a dialogue, like you literally stated yourself.- tenebrousluminary
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VOTE: fua
This person chose to pick a fight with me because they perceived me as a weak player they could win an argument against, but their attack did not make sense. Furthermore, in the bottom of 266, they treat me like they know I am town.
I don't like the way Datisi focused on nitpicking rather than the substance of Nero Cain's argument.In post 304, Datisi wrote:some people not mentioned in your list haven't even posted?? excuse me for asking i guess
class starting back again, cheers- tenebrousluminary
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It's good. If fua and Datisi did not exist, I would join you.In post 320, Nero Cain wrote:
What do you think of the substance of my argument?In post 318, tenebrousluminary wrote:substance of Nero Cain's argument.- tenebrousluminary
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The kid gloves thing -- "I would recommend you do this (in order for me to town read you)" is a strange thing to say to a suspect. I think they had a guilty conscience about their crappy attack on me.In post 322, VP Baltar wrote:
Can you give me specifics of what you're seeing there?In post 318, tenebrousluminary wrote:Furthermore, in the bottom of 266, they treat me like they know I am town.- tenebrousluminary
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I would like to know how you came up with this "mindless" idea. I have been quite clear about why I think the posts of yours I have criticized are scummy to me. It has not been mindless at all.In post 323, Datisi wrote:
have you decided you're just gonna mindlessly tunnel every post i make this game? i logged in during my break, saw that nero was supposedly townreading people that hadn't posted, i asked him about it. do you think "nitpicking" that makes me scummy?In post 318, tenebrousluminary wrote:
I don't like the way Datisi focused on nitpicking rather than the substance of Nero Cain's argument.In post 304, Datisi wrote:some people not mentioned in your list haven't even posted?? excuse me for asking i guess
class starting back again, cheers
So long as you continue to make such posts, I will continue to suspect you, yes. Is being scumread so alien to you as to be upsetting?- tenebrousluminary
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To me, it seems like Yeet's push made you sweat. Resorting to discrediting it as a meme rather than either ignoring it because of not being concerned or confronting the substance, to me is the action of mafia. One could call it "dismissive." I could be wrong, of course.In post 348, Datisi wrote:like, this is what i mean when i say specifically looking for scum motivation in my posts. it feels like latching on to whatever i say in order to try to force a contradiction out. do i seem concerned? why wouldn't i dismiss it by saying something about it?- tenebrousluminary
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On his merits, i am indifferent. It concerns me, however, that his attackers and my attackers are basically the same people.In post 382, Aristeia wrote:
What do you think of HEM?In post 379, tenebrousluminary wrote:Clearly my main suspects are not of interest to anyone, and I see the shift in momentum as sweeping something under the rug. To that end, VOTE: GeneralWu.- tenebrousluminary
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These are basically the people I'm talking about, Nero.
In post 321, fireisredsir wrote:i like the directions that fua and nero are looking so far, but after some research wu looks exaaaactly like he did in newbie 2073 so im less interested in that for now. tene and monkey i am more on board withIn post 323, Datisi wrote:
have you decided you're just gonna mindlessly tunnel every post i make this game? i logged in during my break, saw that nero was supposedly townreading people that hadn't posted, i asked him about it. do you think "nitpicking" that makes me scummy?In post 318, tenebrousluminary wrote:
I don't like the way Datisi focused on nitpicking rather than the substance of Nero Cain's argument.In post 304, Datisi wrote:some people not mentioned in your list haven't even posted?? excuse me for asking i guess
class starting back again, cheersIn post 334, fireisredsir wrote:nero what makes you townread tene?In post 370, Save The Dragons wrote:Town
Frogsterking
Nero Cain
DeasVail
fua
fireisredsir
VP Baltar
Yeet
Null
Scorpious
MalcolmTucker
Datisi
skitter30
Eyes without a face
Aristeia
Cape90
Nordom
GeneralWu
Scum
tenebrousluminary
humaneatingmonkey
VOTE: tenebro
And none of them paid any mind to what you said about the esteemed general.In post 374, Aristeia wrote:
I don't think you're tunneled - I have similar feelings about Tenebro's posting being scummyIn post 364, Datisi wrote:
it's alright, i don't have too much free time right now either.In post 363, VP Baltar wrote:I haven't read the game yet and likely won't get a chance to until late today. I was sleepy sleeping when it started and I have a lot of work to do today.
for whoever wants to weigh in on this - am i tunnelled on tenebro? like, posts 58, 140, 195, 202, 318 feel like specifically looking for scum!motivation from me / things to attack me over rather than actually thinking through my posts and drawing conclusions that way. i *want* to say i'm still feeling as sure in the read as i was an hour ago, but like, something something weak at emotion bad at mafia etc.- tenebrousluminary
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I did not interpret his list as ordered, since if it was, he voted me rather than the person he listed as scummiest.In post 391, Nero Cain wrote:STD has Wu as the 3rd scummist. But Dats and Ari are straight-up ignoring, yes.- tenebrousluminary
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Not really. I didn't like the "lol" thing, but other than that I don't see why everyone is so up in arms about him.In post 392, Aristeia wrote:
do you have thoughts about his alignment independently of the people attacking him/you?In post 383, tenebrousluminary wrote:On his merits, i am indifferent. It concerns me, however, that his attackers and my attackers are basically the same people.- tenebrousluminary
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Would you like to explain any of your opinions, Sir Knight?In post 402, Save The Dragons wrote:
my list isn't ordered my badIn post 391, Nero Cain wrote:STD has Wu as the 3rd scummist- tenebrousluminary
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Okay, you're right.In post 412, fireisredsir wrote:
not even really datisi, he said monkey was scummy and that he was willing to vote there. just that the play was confusing based on past experiencesIn post 409, tenebrousluminary wrote:Ah, it's just Datisi, isn't it?- tenebrousluminary
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In post 418, Save The Dragons wrote:
hahaIn post 405, tenebrousluminary wrote:
Would you like to explain any of your opinions, Sir Knight?In post 402, Save The Dragons wrote:
my list isn't ordered my badIn post 391, Nero Cain wrote:STD has Wu as the 3rd scummist- tenebrousluminary
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Here is my response:In post 442, Save The Dragons wrote:
i want pressure on you mostly, it's a gut read and i want to see how you respondIn post 434, tenebrousluminary wrote:Could you at least explain why you want to extinguish my beautiful light, Sir Knight?
It is difficult to assess the motivations of votes against me, as Mx. Oboro says I must, if no motivation is provided.
I expected more gallantry from your appearance, Sir! Must I don a princess costume to win your favor?
Other than that, you'll just have to wait and see.- tenebrousluminary
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If you wish to call my defenses weak, you should cite what specifically was weak.In post 459, MalcolmTucker wrote: I didn't necessarily suspect Tenebros on the basis of their early posts but found some of their later defences incredibly weak attempts to divert attention away from them without addressing accusations at-hand.
I don't understand how I can be making "defences" while also "not addressing accusations at hand." What accusations at hand would you like me to address? If you feel there are unanswered questions, you can ask them yourself, and if you really want to figure me out, I think you will do so.
Why is Frogster drawing attention to himself different from me drawing attention to myself? I don't disagree that it could be seen that way, but I want to hear your explanation.In post 461, MalcolmTucker wrote:Also TR'ing Frogster, their early question seemed so bizarre a theory for a mafia player to have, not sure why you'd draw attention to yourself with that. Also TR'ing Datisi at the moment, their frustrations re early accusations seemed fairly genuine to me at a point where players were keen to just get any theories or suspicions off the ground to get the game going.
You think Datisi is carefree this game? I think he seems quite upset about a small amount of pressure.In post 463, Aristeia wrote: I guess I am a tiny bit biased here but I think he's not as carefree as scum tho I haven't actually played with scum him this is just based on what he's said about his scum game previously.- tenebrousluminary
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There was a gulf between where I thought the votes were and where they actually were.In post 475, Mizzytastic wrote:The second rule of go is the suicide rule. You cannot play in a position that reduces the liberties of one of your groups to zero, resulting in it being captured.
VOTE: Datisi- tenebrousluminary
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ThatIn post 524, fireisredsir wrote:have kind of a hard time believing that monkey really thinks there's no way ari and datisi can be town here. this aggressive posturing feels a bit bluff-y to mewasoverblown, but I think monkey is making a better argument than Ari right now.- tenebrousluminary
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Sure.In post 536, Aristeia wrote:
Would you like to explain your thought process ? : )In post 532, tenebrousluminary wrote:
ThatIn post 524, fireisredsir wrote:have kind of a hard time believing that monkey really thinks there's no way ari and datisi can be town here. this aggressive posturing feels a bit bluff-y to mewasoverblown, but I think monkey is making a better argument than Ari right now.
When he accused you of OMGUS, your defense that he never voted you is one I find unconvincing. I don't think a vote is required for OMGUS.
I don't think your point about "thread ghosting" is very compelling. People have schedules and other hobbies. 521 does not seem fair.
You yourself have noted that your readlist was not fully genuine, if I am understanding your "trap" correctly, so why is it strange that someone noticed?
While there is nothing necessarily wrong with this, I can see why monkey sees it as dodging the question.In post 531, Aristeia wrote: I asked you which read you wanted me to elaborate on because I don't feel like answering busy work questions.- tenebrousluminary
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Maybe I should go and look at the interaction rather than relying on your dueling narratives.In post 541, Aristeia wrote:The fact that you can't answer an easy question like "which read are you interested in" and then you begin dodging and shouting "OMGUS!" and "Why won't you answer me!?" is kind of an awful look for you.- tenebrousluminary
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To me it seems clear that the "which read" question was clearly answered with "all of them," and even if you did not like that answer, I do not understand why you are getting on monkey's case about it and framing not just choosing one as some sort of evil maneuver targeted to waste your time. You've now wasted far more time with this argument than it would have taken to answer.In post 554, tenebrousluminary wrote:
Maybe I should go and look at the interaction rather than relying on your dueling narratives.In post 541, Aristeia wrote:The fact that you can't answer an easy question like "which read are you interested in" and then you begin dodging and shouting "OMGUS!" and "Why won't you answer me!?" is kind of an awful look for you.- tenebrousluminary
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I simply don't agree with your characterization. I don't think that necessarily makes you scum though.In post 557, Aristeia wrote:
my readlist is genuine.In post 552, tenebrousluminary wrote:You yourself have noted that your readlist was not fully genuine, if I am understanding your "trap" correctly, so why is it strange that someone noticed?
there are reads in there that I can see someone having a legitimate issue with based on thread progress since at the time.
the fact that when I ask him he doesn't really want to have a conversation about a particular read is a red flag to me because when I evaluate read lists I usually compare to my own reads and look for areas where we have dissonance.
The fact that he couldn't come up with a single dissonant read to talk about implies he didn't have any reads of his own and he's just asking me busy work questions that he's not particularly interested in.- tenebrousluminary
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I didn't think "lol" was a good response but I could not care less that he then chose that moment to stop posting.In post 563, Aristeia wrote:
except he's the one who initiated the conversation and when I turned it around on him and accused him of not having reads and pushing me in bad faith and his response was "lol" and then he disappeared from the thread.In post 552, tenebrousluminary wrote:I don't think your point about "thread ghosting" is very compelling. People have schedules and other hobbies. 521 does not seem fair.- tenebrousluminary
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Sorry, this sounded less kind than I intended. I just don't think it's scum indicative.In post 571, tenebrousluminary wrote:
I didn't think "lol" was a good response but I could not care less that he then chose that moment to stop posting.In post 563, Aristeia wrote:
except he's the one who initiated the conversation and when I turned it around on him and accused him of not having reads and pushing me in bad faith and his response was "lol" and then he disappeared from the thread.In post 552, tenebrousluminary wrote:I don't think your point about "thread ghosting" is very compelling. People have schedules and other hobbies. 521 does not seem fair.- tenebrousluminary
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Why can't it show that he genuinely was just trying to firm up his read on you? I asked Save The Dragons a similar question myself for a similar reason.In post 569, Aristeia wrote:all of them is not an acceptable response to me as it shows me he has no reads of his own to compare my reads to.- tenebrousluminary
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I have to admit, it does read that way. She might as well have called you a pleb.In post 583, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
Again, so malicious.In post 580, Aristeia wrote:I feel so much pressure from someone who has no reads and decided to hide from me.- tenebrousluminary
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I also don't think he would have admitted to having no reads. That was self-defeating in terms of the argument.In post 585, Yeet wrote:The more I think about it, the more I just don't think scum HEM would decide to enter going guns blazing at Aristeia, of all people, who seems to be reacting to this in a very OMGUSy way (not that it's scum indicative). I assume there is history between the two from what I have read, and I would never as scum just attack someone like that flippantly who I know has a high chance of OMGUSing back at me.
I just don't see the scum motivation here.- tenebrousluminary
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We clearly just don't agree about this. I believe that you believe it.In post 587, Aristeia wrote:
because him not having a read that he's interested in shows me that he's not actually sorting people.In post 584, tenebrousluminary wrote:
Why can't it show that he genuinely was just trying to firm up his read on you? I asked Save The Dragons a similar question myself for a similar reason.In post 569, Aristeia wrote:all of them is not an acceptable response to me as it shows me he has no reads of his own to compare my reads to.
the idea of talking reads out is thatyou have reads yourself that you want to talk about- tenebrousluminary
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In post 598, Eyes without a face wrote:
No. But one time it's the other person's fault. Two times it's probably mine.In post 527, DeasVail wrote:
So a readslist on Page 12 is a lot different from a readslist on Page 8?In post 515, Eyes without a face wrote:
This sounds more like the town nero I know. Nothing solid yet but a town lean.In post 288, Nero Cain wrote:I am tentatively at
humaneatingmonkey
GeneralWu
so the other 2 scum are in
Scorpious
Save The Dragons
MalcolmTucker
skitter30
Eyes without a face
Nordom- tenebrousluminary
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Why does a scum player?In post 599, Aristeia wrote:
Why does a town player have no reads on page 24?In post 594, tenebrousluminary wrote:
I also don't think he would have admitted to having no reads. That was self-defeating in terms of the argument.In post 585, Yeet wrote:The more I think about it, the more I just don't think scum HEM would decide to enter going guns blazing at Aristeia, of all people, who seems to be reacting to this in a very OMGUSy way (not that it's scum indicative). I assume there is history between the two from what I have read, and I would never as scum just attack someone like that flippantly who I know has a high chance of OMGUSing back at me.
I just don't see the scum motivation here.
In post 601, Nero Cain wrote:
he's general wu?In post 599, Aristeia wrote:Why does a town player have no reads on page 24?- tenebrousluminary
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I'm not sure about this. It was odd to me that he fixated on something so insignificant, when he has had so little to say about the more interesting game events.In post 854, skitter30 wrote:- this thing with nordam is probably a miscommunication/having different priorities to sort people. I dont really get what he's asking but probably isnt scummy - tenebrousluminary
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