Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[Eyes without a face]

GOOD GOD. Twenty pages already?

[Eyes without a face]

I am also leaving. I was about to go to sleep when I saw the day start and got excited. I have stayed past my bedtime for this and hope I don’t regret it.

From top to bottom:

Frog
fire
DeasVail
Aristeia
Save the Dragons

everyone else
Wu, skitter, tenebro
Cavernous sea of nothing
Datisi

You must be the best player that ever played this game. 10 reads on page 8? Are you serious?

[Eyes without a face]

here is my way too early vibe list:

good vibes:

yeet, frogster, fire, skitter, datisi, std

neutrali:

gwu, cape90, deasvail,

badvibes:

tenebro, monkey

OK.. so I take it that I'm the worst player then, because while everyone is discerning reads I have no concrete feelings so far (in page 9) that I don't think I'd vote or defend anyone if my life depended on it.

[Eyes without a face]

VOTE: Eyes without a face

I’ll catch up on other stuff this afternoon

Dwlee? Is that you??

[Eyes without a face]

I am tentatively at

humaneatingmonkey
GeneralWu


so the other 2 scum are in

Scorpious
Save The Dragons
MalcolmTucker
skitter30
Eyes without a face
Nordom

This sounds more like the town nero I know. Nothing solid yet but a town lean.

[Eyes without a face]

Oh hello 13 pages. Is this game serious already?

Lucky you. I came on to 20 pages and flirted with the idea I should not mention in the open (as the rules state not to) then decided to stick around and see what happens.

Nero townread solidified. That's aggressive enough and careless enough for him to be much more likely town than scum.

[Eyes without a face]

I would like to know why you think Nero Cain is town.

Town Nero is aggressive and stingy. Scum Nero is nice and gentle. Simple.

[Eyes without a face]

I just finished reading through page 10, so I'm still in catch up. Here is kind of what I have for reads out of that so far:


Town:

Frogsterking

- early attack on Yeet over game delay is tinfoil I'd expect from town FK

Yeet

- wild noob read after wild noob read. Somewhat question if Yeet is not an alt though, in which case maybe this means nothing.

fireisredsir

- has independent thought, calling out post 116 as bad is good. Also seems to not mind poking people, which I appreciate.

skitter30

- Kind of like their pressure on Datisi, but think the over defense of tenesbro is unwarranted. This is probably closer to a null read than a townread in terms of confidence, but I like that she is mixing it up.

Cape90

- probably town for finding frogster town and asking pretty open questions.

Ari

- I like her pressure and vote on monkey when he was being kind of ridiculous.


Null:

DeasVail

- commenting, but not doing a ton. Maybe lean townish.


Scum:

fua

- I find the hard scum read of tenesbro a little contrived, and possibly piling on to a popular opinion in thread.

monkey

- The whole intereaction with ari looks like monkey got over confident with a poke and couldn't explain the position.

Town lean on VP. I don't care about what reads he has here, but he took the time to explain them which I don't think scum would do at this point given that many players are posting read lists that are not explained at all.

So.. Nero atop then VP then everyone else

[Eyes without a face]

I am tentatively at

humaneatingmonkey
GeneralWu


so the other 2 scum are in

Scorpious
Save The Dragons
MalcolmTucker
skitter30
Eyes without a face
Nordom

This sounds more like the town nero I know. Nothing solid yet but a town lean.

So a readslist on Page 12 is a lot different from a readslist on Page 8?

No. But one time it's the other person's fault. Two times it's probably mine.

[Eyes without a face]

I asked you which read you wanted me to elaborate on because I don't feel like answering busy work questions.

I know you're not talking to me but allow me to get this off my chest: If you had done as VP did no one would have had to ask for an explanation. I -for one- need to know if someone is for real or just posting a read list for the sake of it.

[Eyes without a face]

Also, if you're voting for pressure why would you feel the need to announce it?

YOU WERE THE ONE THAT ASKED ME WHY!!!

Yeah, but why does every question have to met with an honest answer? Obviously town wants to be clear in their intent, but when you're talking about wanting to pressure for answers why announce it so the person you're scoping gets wind of it?

I do not wish to add more fuel here (I am way behind by the way) but this just doesn't make sense to me. You asked and he answered. End if story. Why be honest? The question is why to lie? What if Nero had no other reason? Did he have to invent some shit? And what if him being dishonest didn't convince anyone and made him look suspicious? I mean come on. If I was in Nero's shoes and I could find a good "fake" reason for my vote I'd have told the truth and come what may and I suspect everybody else would have done the same. Town only lie when there is something to gain from their lie.

[Eyes without a face]

I am really sorry guys, but this is more than I can chew and you deserve someone with more time on their hands.

Good luck all.

[Eyes without a face]

I am really sorry guys, but this is more than I can chew and you deserve someone with more time on their hands.

Good luck all.

The past 20 pages isn't that worth reading. Also, the game will slow down. I'd say stick around if you can stomach the first day or two. Larges get much more fun after that.

I don't know if what I did is legal so I will wait for confirmation.

@Mod: Am I still allowed to play the game?

[Eyes without a face]

OK, mod says I can still play. No harm done. the thing is I was skimming hard and couldn't grasp a thing. I didn't even realize Math had claimed a mason until someone asked him why he outed. Also I missed Nero's hood claim until someone asked him the same. I suspect there's plenty of such details that I have missed and I didn't think that was fair for town collectively.

Today looks better (only 10 more pages) so I guess I can try to read those and then see if there are references to previous posts to check them or just keep on reading from here and ignore everything that happened before until someone makes a mention of it.

[Eyes without a face]

Spoiler: @Fire, Nero & Scorpious:

You three should know what I'm asking here without me having to explain it any further because of the rules. You do remember what I once said about replacements, Yes? However I had more reason to it back then than I do right now because I knew the player preferences while I don't either replaced players here. They also played for a while before replacing out so it's not exactly the same.
My question: Does any of you have any solid background on either? Can anything be discerned from the replacements or should I think of them both as being absolutely NAI?[/spoiler]

[Eyes without a face]

Holy crap what the hell did I miss??

Judging by your post just above this one I'd guess you missed the effect of some blackhole at the other end of the universe or something. (and crap it is my friend. Crap it is indeed)

[Eyes without a face]

I'm not really sure what people have anxieties about in my 1206 other than theories about my scum!motivation? I explained my thoughts there and I stand by the fact that it was necessary to move the game along voting the largest wagon that I didn't townread. I also wanted to show others that I was willing to compromise to set a tone to push the game forward. I guess I could've voted Wu who is kind of just at pure null for me but I thought the game was moving a bit slowly and as I said HEM became a bit more nullish for me than I originally tried to defend him for. If you wanted to pin me down on why,

I guess part of me loses a bit of confidence in a read when I present arguments for someone being town based off of a reasoning that I feel might be a specific process for myself, and get shut down by multiple people

(which is what I felt happened, notably from fire and Aristeia). But at the end of the day it was just a feeling that I had enough doubt there that I could justify compromising.

I think it's somewhat unlucky that we've hit (probably) two townies (HEM and fua) but I would rather take that risk than just do nothing the whole day. I agree that it's probably fine to slow the game down a little bit (but not to a ridiculous degree, we should still compromise to a degree and push people).

I'm not voting this because I very much sympathize with the bolded.

[Eyes without a face]

why are there only five pages for me to catch up on?

I don't know if serious or sarcasm but I will assume sarcasm so that I won't have negative feelings towards you for the rest of the game.

[Eyes without a face]

Oh and based on that assumption I should have added: ha ha

[Eyes without a face]

Nero Cain(1): Nero Cain

WTF? Why is Nero's vote on himself?

[Eyes without a face]

Hey guys! I just worked on this questionnaire with my friend to help with scumhunting! It was built around the idea that mafia forums are a low scope low testability domain.

Here's the "low-scope low-testability scumhunting questionnaire:"

#1 How does the wave function evolve?
#2 Does wave function imply many worlds?
#3 Have we used all the available technology?
#4 Do we live in a simulation?

Scorpius please answer these

VOTE: Frogsterking

This is definitely counterproductive

[Eyes without a face]

2294 alright scorpius is at least willing to cooperate and the scorpius slot is cool in my book. I think the rep in for Eyes should fill out the questionnaire as well. Im going to look over Scorpius answers now.

Check this youtube channel and pay special attention to Dr Sean Carroll's lectures maybe.

[Eyes without a face]

Why was it not fair to town to out the hood?

What? I said it was not fair to town that I should miss a whole lot of details, not that the details were not fair to out.

[Eyes without a face]

also, VP is a claimed asetic and would have been a pretty good d1 lunch.

Wait! Ascetic + Vig + 2 Masons = 4 PRs, or are you making special notice of your read on VP to exclude him from the outed "T"PRs?

[Eyes without a face]

Holy crap what the hell did I miss??

Judging by your post just above this one I'd guess you missed the effect of some blackhole at the other end of the universe or something. (and crap it is my friend. Crap it is indeed)

Is there any reason you're unable to answer the questionnaire, Eye? Question 3 has been revised:
"With sufficient technology can all low scope low testability questions be made testable?"

Yes there is and it's quite simple. It's this shit that I play mafia to get away from. Mafia is a less tense activity that I do for fun to try and rest my brain from that precise type of science (and no I am not a student per say but I am interested in trying to understand these kinds of theories)

[Eyes without a face]

do you really think scum couldn't say that

I didn't say I townread them for saying it. I said I sympathize with it because it happens to me and I feel the same (and I will keep it at that for now so I'd appreciate you letting it slide for a few more days maybe)

[Eyes without a face]

Well, he's quoting a VC from 2275 and I self voted in 2048 so unless he's reading backwards shouldn't he already know?

Well if

you

were reading you'd have known I almost left the game by 2136

because I couldn't keep up

. That means I didn't read properly back than and I came back and decided to read the new posts only unless there was a reference to the old ones.

But thank you for linking 2048 for me. I understand it now.

[Eyes without a face]

He's prob scum anyways.

Not my read of him. Sorry. On my -somewhat short- read list you, VP and fua are all joint third after the 2 masons

[Eyes without a face]

Ot's ironic ypu should ask after complaining about me not reading lol

check 586 if you will

[Eyes without a face]

Why aren't u voting Wu?

If that becomes a thing I would.. maybe. I just didn't like frog's distraction bringing in quantum mechanics and waves into the equation so to speak

[Eyes without a face]

I will try a little harder today I promise.

@fua: Why are you dismissing the possibility of a bulletproof vest there? Your target could have had a BP vest. No?

[Eyes without a face]

Also doctor can be either alignment so if the target was scum they could have been protected by a scum doctor, or if they're really scummy town they could have still been protected by scum doctor for wifom

So RB, doctor of either alignment or bp are all valid (and I didn't even consider a commuter because it's not that common on this site)

[Eyes without a face]

fua not thinking like the rest doesn't make fae scum. In fact I find it almost impossible for scum to claim vig when they know they can't prove it, so the claim alone should give fae more space

[Eyes without a face]

I could maybe, maybe see fua being a serial killer?

Wouldn't it be too wild for the SK to claim Vig though? Even with the lack of a direct CC the Vig flip at any point just outs the SK who should try to avoid being yeeted at all costs.

[Eyes without a face]

I am at the bottom of page 123 and

at that point

I think I have more or less developed reads that look like this:

Town reads: Nero, VP, Enchant, fire, STD, Deas

Almost-Town: Yeet, Malcolm

Can't decide: Scorp, Datisi, skitter, April, Cape

Scum leans: tene, frog

Note that these are mostly impressions although claims do play a part of it. Also names in each category are not necessarily ordered

[Eyes without a face]

Unfortunately I don't think it's AI in fact I think the clashing and the recurring wagons indicate the slot is town.

I know I'm deep into the tunnel when I realize I can use this against Frog regardless of tene's alignment. lol

Like, at first it hit me as tmi and thus tene is own and frog is scum. Then I realized it could also be scum defending their buddy. At this point I took a deep breath and a step back to see if I had a solid case on frog and.. I don't. I just didn't like their D1 quantum physics discussion and I don't think I had the will to change my feelings on them since then.

ALSO, I kind if agree tene could still be town because this play reminds me of a recent game (linked below) where a player called ofmercia kind of did the same and flipped town.

So I am officially merging my 2 bottom pools into one. I now have town reads, town leans and "the rest"

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=88666

[Eyes without a face]

dueling Scorp VP wagons go!

VOTE: vp

no

[Eyes without a face]

Why the enchant hard town read?

I don't believe scum claim vig on day one just for the lolz. It's a very risky play that could be CC'd or result in them getting shot by the real vig or them getting yeeted soon enough when there is no other kill at night. It just doesn't make sense to me that fua was scum and claimed that unprompted

[Eyes without a face]

Eyes how are you townreading VP and Dragons?

They type in English so I read them left to right. lol

But really .. I already explained the VP read twice and nothing has changed. VP gave me no reason to reconsider my read there. Dragon is.. let's call it an inexplicable read for now.

[Eyes without a face]

eyes town reading VP for explaining some reads on p 24 continues to be horrible

Nero repeating himself like a broken record is terrible.

Ok, so it's a bad reason to TR someone 9from your Pov). Fine. I got it. Everyone else did. Now what? Do you want me to flip my read on him for no reason just because you don't like it? Would you be happy then or will you flip your broken record to side-B: "eyes changing their read on VP for no apparent reason is horrible" (big accordion solo)

[Eyes without a face]

Can you explain your VP/Enchant/STD/Deas reads for me?

VP provided a read list early on D1 supported with

some reasoning

. I didn't care about the reads themselves but I did like that he cared enough to provide the reasoning behind them. It's evidently hard to find logical reasoning to explain one's reads when the game hadn't even developed enough and scum would be quite wary of not only providing reads (which is the easy part) but also find reasons to justify such reads.

Enchant because of the Vig claim which I don't believe any scum in their right mind would fake claim on D1. Not even if they were informed that there is no Vig would scum have the heart to claim something they know they will never be able to prove.

STD play is calm and doesn't have a gung ho element but rather is trying to solve the game at their own pace.

Deas is pure gut from their posting on D2. Their posts do not strike me as agenda'y or fabricated.

Disclaimer: I apologize if I had used the wrong pronouns for anyone. I try to use what I remember and if I'm not sure I use they to avoid offending anyone.

[Eyes without a face]

Eyes are you proposing a Nero wagon?

Not really, no. I am promoting him for SCUM MVP though, in the sense that he is likely a townie that is playing it all into the hands of scum

[Eyes without a face]

I don't care what your read of him is but there should be a progression and a lack of progression makes you look informed whether its that you know that he's town or that he's your buddy and you are expressing a town read on him so you don't have to vote him.

Perfect. So I'm scum irregardless of whatever VPB's alignment is?

[Eyes without a face]

Eyes, are you saying in 3650 that Dragons is less calm when they roll scum?

No. I'm just describing STD's play as I see it in this game. I do not claim to have meta on them.

[Eyes without a face]

He's the leading wagon

OK, who has been defending him? How much resistance is there for his wagon? It looks to me that everyone and their mother have been contemplating voting VP at one point or another with only 2 exceptions: myself and Yeet.

[Eyes without a face]

I don't care if he agrees with me or not just that town reading you off of your 15th post makes him look informed and not really paying attention to the game.

Then why the fuck aren't you giving me shit for town reading you even before I townread VP? And why the fuck aren't you asking me for new reasons that might have strengthened my read on you despite you being so thick it would take a ballistic missile to "maybe" get YOU to reconsider?

[Eyes without a face]

y aren't you voting?

because you want me to, and I will never do anything that you want me to do.

[Eyes without a face]

you could give me reasons to reconsider but you can't be assed to read past his 15th post.

Who says? I like his posts today too. I didn't read the rest of D1 admittedly but I like what I have seen today. And I just did give you one more reason: Where the fuck is the resistance to VP's wagon?

[Eyes without a face]

And I said I wasn't going to do it

because

you want me to. I was indeed thinking of joining VP on Frog, but with you insisting that I do vote I changed my mind.

[Eyes without a face]

So....you rather just let VP get eliminated rather than try to get a Frog lim but b/c big meanie Cain wants you to be pro-town and use your weapon you won't. makes sense

Man you're good with words you should be a politician. How am I letting VP get yeeted when I am not only not voting him but hve actively said I TR him over and over again? And how is my vote on Frog going to make any difference if everyone wants to vote VP anyway? Me not voting Wu (whom I was willing to vote btw) didn't stop him from getting yeeted, and the irony is I in fact was voting Frog at the time.

[Eyes without a face]

Serious question: Are we looking for scum or are we looking for things we don't like in each other's playstyles? because it seems to me everybody has been looking on the game from their own perspective and how the other should be playing not whether the other is making something that looks like it's scum driven.

Also everybody (in general and not just in this game) assume they are smart and everybody else is dumb. "scum will push this and not that" may only work if -say- someone is being tricky, but I don't think having a different opinion or changing one's opinion or some other shit that every player does regardless of their alignment qualifies as a reason to scum read someone.

@Deas: regarding 3702 what would you have done in that situation? Imagine that you were not being pushed at one point and then the tide changes and you are the leading wagon. Would you still sit back and relax or would you try to at least defend yourself? I think we both know the answer to that and that -again- is regardless of the color of your PM.

[Eyes without a face]

I think the pushing on Nero is scummy because it is more focused on pushing Nero as terrible town than it is on determining his alignment.

I personally share that same view with VP. I have called Nero town from the start (based on me knowing something about his meta) and yet I have been opposing him almost all the way. In fact if I didn't read VP I still would have been skeptical to join forcers with Nero because traditionally he hardly gets anything right when he's town. That means that if Nero is town you have much better odds going against his wishes, and if he's scum it's evident why you don't want to go where he goes either.

[Eyes without a face]

I am starting to like this April person. They're not afraid to speak their mind and go against the tide. (Of I wanted to be really mean I'd have said this was one more slot Nero wanted to push. but I want to be fair and say that at the time April wasn't posting I personally could not have got any read on them, so fair is fair).

[Eyes without a face]

I think disagreeing with someone is perfectly valid and healthy for the game, but I think VP’s commentary on Nero goes beyond this, whilst truly thinking about Nero’s alignment takes a backseat

Above is @eyes

OK.. maybe I didn't see it that way because I was agreeing with VP on the subject already, so I will accept that it looks that way from your own perspective.

[Eyes without a face]

@april, if you think tene and VP are both town, why do you think things shifting from tene to VP is a sign of scum taking action?

I have an answer to this but I will let April answer for themselves. Ask me about mine when and if you are interested.

[Eyes without a face]

eyes what's your answer?

It's evident that VP is a much stronger player and scum would want him dead over tene is my answer

[Eyes without a face]

VOTE: Malcolm

Willing to give this a try but I reserve the right to retract my vote if I am not satisfied with the result.

[Eyes without a face]

I am at the bottom of page 123 and

at that point

I think I have more or less developed reads that look like this:

Town reads: Nero, VP, Enchant, fire, STD, Deas

Almost-Town: Yeet, Malcolm

Can't decide: Scorp, Datisi, skitter, April, Cape

Scum leans: tene, frog

Note that these are mostly impressions although claims do play a part of it. Also names in each category are not necessarily ordered

Eyes TR'd me the other day. What has particularly changed?

Yeet appears to be townier now so joins the upper rank. April is posting and I like many of their opinions (I do not necessarily agree with them all, but I like them all the same in the sense that I think they come from ton who has a different perspective) so April also joins the top rank.

Cape is slightly better.. not a top rank read but now is at second rank. So basically I now have those whom I don't want to vote and those whom I don't mind voting, My reservation on you comes from the fact you still are at second rank but considering I had already merged the bottom two ranks into one (and I think I did say as much in public) you are now more or less in the "unsure" category and I'd like to see how it goes.

[Eyes without a face]

Eyes,

Do you have any thoughts on the replacements?

Sure. One of them is a MASON, and one is a CLAIMED VIG. I like April out of the other 3, and the remaining 2 haven't posted anything meaningful yet.

As for the respective slots, aside from Math and Enchant all other 3 were in my PoE.

Now the icing on the cake: They all replaced IN DAY TWO (except Math if memory serves) so that's way different (i.e. the "theory" doesn't apply)

Oh, and by the way I'm an alt of a face with no eyes. lol

[Eyes without a face]

one is a CLAIMED VIG

Wait what? I never claimed vig.

Enchant is the claimed vig (well Enchant slt is, since it was fua who claimed it on D1)

[Eyes without a face]

@Everyone voting VP please help me see what you see as scummy in his play.
@tene: Please help me see why Scorpious is so town to you.
@Anyone not voting or vanity voting: Whassup?

[Eyes without a face]

@Everyone voting VP please help me see what you see as scummy in his play.
@tene: Please help me see why Scorpious is so town to you.
@Anyone not voting or vanity voting: Whassup?

Why is Malcolm disclosed here?

I am voting Malcolm myself. I am trying to understand others perspectives not my own.

[Eyes without a face]

VOTE: VP

Nope. Now I kinda want VP since Galron is pinging me hard.

My meta the past few posts has been extremely different from prior games he has seen me in so I suspect that was coached which means I am doing what scum want so VP needs to go even though I personally TR him

Regardless of flip Galron needs to die.

I read this post tice and am struggling to get it still. If Galron is the one you want why are you voting VP? You started by stating Galron was pinging you so you want VP (!!) and ended with Galron needs to die regardless. (Sorry if there's something I misunderstood)

[Eyes without a face]

Galron would be scumreading me for not hyperposting. Yet instead he goes this is town math. Therefore Galron is scum.

Galron as scum scumreading me means that I am doing what scum want. Therefore scum want me not on VP.

OK. This is my answer I guess. It doesn't make me any happier tbh.

[Eyes without a face]

Eyes, I would like a response to this

I already explained it directly to Malcolm. I merged my pools to "people I wouldn't vote" and "people I would vote". The overwhelming 1v1s made it impossible for me to distinguish between genuine fights and scum theatres so I changed my ways to try and single out players who were not in my strong town pool but should have been and Yeet won their spot on that list. I also thought Cape was getting better and later on April earned a spot on the strong TRs too.

Now please double check the wagon. April started it (a TR). Yeet is on it (another TR). VP (you) on it (yet another TR), and as the wagon grows fire also hops on (that's a 4th TR). Now why would I abandon a wagon when my townreads are on it and even those not on it (ex: Nero) were not exactly opposed to it? Yes I did initially vote Malcolm to see where it goes, but how the wagon went didn't alarm me and malcolm wasn't doing much to actually convince me to unvote him (he spent a lot of time complaining there was allegedly no case on him which is usually a scum tell. In my mind when someone keeps repeating that it is the equivalent of "it's not what you know. it's what you can prove" and that didn't bode well with me.

So neither Malcolm's reaction nor the composition of the wagon hinted I should unvote there. Not even the speed of it building up.

Finally as for not joining the tene wagon in particular it's the same reason why I elevated Yeet in my reads (maybe not as strong but the same principle). When I see someone defending another to death I get the sense they maybe a PR. Simple. I didn't want to put pressure on a potential PR to the point they had to claim (I try to learn from my mistakes). tene was defending Scorpious as hard as Yeet was defending Galron so I didn't want to go there and didn't want to point it out either.

I know someone or another is going to ask why out it now though (because that's the way it goes with some folks) and the answer is because I have to explain my choices now, and because with Yeet's flip I no longer think tene is a PR.

[Eyes without a face]

Question chain for Titus/April especially but anyone who wishes to answer: is my theorizing Scum have a traitor based on Yeet flip sound? If yes, would it be likely traitor + 1 scum in the hood?

I don't know the answer to that. At first it looked like Mizzy was explaining the role to the player as it is explained on the wiki, but when you point it out I could also see it as a hint. However, SK is also listed and we haven't had a 2nd kill in the game so far, so I don't know what to think.

[Eyes without a face]

If my reads were perfect (hint: they're not) I would only lim between Scorpious, Datisi/Titus, tenebrousluminary, Frogsterking today.

Maybe I should make a stance now?

VOTE: Frogsterking

There you go.

[Eyes without a face]

why is everyone ignoring that psychologists get negative results on people who have already killed and therefore do not necessarily imply that there is a traitor

i wouldn't be THAT surprised to see a traitor but eh

or maybe I'm not understanding? Team mafia would still retain their kill ability and "would get is capable of killing." It would be JOATS and x-shot vigs/sks (and town and mafia traitor) that would get is "not capable of killing or has already killed."

Why wouldn't you just head to the wiki and check how the role works??

A Psychologist can investigate one player for unused kills each night. Only three results can be obtained from this investigation: Negative, Positive, or no result. This investigation resolves after any killing abilities in the Night phase.

A negative result is returned from players that are unable to actively kill another player, or on a player that has already killed.
A positive result is returned from players that can choose to kill, but have not done so.
The "no result" result is returned as a result of the action failing as a consequence of another role (e.g. a Roleblocker or Ascetic) interfering with it.
Roles like Paranoid Gun Owner, who have passive kills, give negative results because they have no active kill. Likewise, a Mafia Traitor has no kill and thus will produce a negative result; a Vigilante will produce a positive result before it makes its first kill.

And if you're still confused reread the last sentence: a Vigilante will produce a positive result

before it makes its first kill

.

[Eyes without a face]

someone from the mafia team always carries out the kill, right? the person who did would then show up neg to a psychologist. i thought that was like the whole idea behind the role

wiki:

It does however have a drawback: if a player has already killed, the Psychologist can no longer discern whether this player is capable of doing so.

That's an even better quote

[Eyes without a face]

OK, I can't read the next 24 pages tonight so I'll stop at the top of page 201 and resume my catch up tomorrow

[Eyes without a face]

Eyes, thoughts about VP and ending this day?

I'm not gonna vote there today is the short version. I don't have the time or the will to walk you through the long version.

[Eyes without a face]

VOTE: Titus

eyes prob votes me over VP so your vote effectively make me the leading wagon.

Wrong! I ain't gonna vote you either. I thought I made it quite clear that I hard townread both you and VP and don't like your back and forth all through the game.

[Eyes without a face]

VOTE: Titus

eyes prob votes me over VP so your vote effectively make me the leading wagon.

if eyes doesn't sheep me on titus (he should) then ill switch back

I'll vote when I finish my catch up

[Eyes without a face]

titus is pushing for a vp flip over a Nero one despite the wagons being close at 5-4, probably bc both are town and she knows a vp flip will make her look better than a Nero one

In what world are both Nero and I town? Highly unlikely

Well I'm not willing to wager my mortgage on it but a small investment on the side is an interesting idea. Say my weekly payment.

[Eyes without a face]

If my reads were perfect (hint: they're not) I would only lim between Scorpious, Datisi/Titus, tenebrousluminary, Frogsterking today.

Maybe I should make a stance now?

VOTE: Frogsterking

There you go.

you wouldn't lim in hood at all?

Not today

[Eyes without a face]

All caught up (unless new posts while I'm composing this)

Current reads:
[*]Eyes without a face, [*]Nordrom/Mathblade
[*]Save The Dragons, [*]Aristeia/April Ludgate
[*]fua/Enchant, [*]Nero Cain, [*]VP Baltar
[*]fireisredsir, [*]DeasVail, [*]skitter30/Galron, [*]Cape90
[*]Scorpious
[*]Datisi/Titus
[*]Frogsterking, [*]tenebrousluminary

[Eyes without a face]

Is there anything I can say or do to stop this hideous wagon on VP from going through?

[Eyes without a face]

Is there anything I can say or do to stop this hideous wagon on VP from going through?

well the alternative is prob nero who you also townread

Or we can kill frog or tene

[Eyes without a face]

You're all too noisy and I'm glad I managed to get this far, so I'll claim and let someone better at making connections interpret the info

I was a 4-shot follower. My results:

N1 STD (No Action)
N2 Nero (Protective)
N3 Deas (No Action)
N4 tene (No Action)

I was mainly trying to confirm slots that didn't look like they're going to get eliminated anytime soon. Unfortunately Nero got shot at night which is something I could not have controlled or predicted.

I also thought a goon was more likely to do the kill early on so I thought the STD result was a stronger clear than say that of Deas and Deas is still a bit stronger than tene, but I'll leave that to someone who knows better

Current readlist:

[*]Eyes without a face, [*]Nordrom/Mathblade
[*]Save The Dragons, [*]DeasVail, [*]tenebrousluminary
[*]Aristeia/April Ludgate, [*]fireisredsir, [*]skitter30/Galron, [*]Cape90
[*]Frogsterking, [*]Scorpious

[Eyes without a face]

Interesting why the immediate claim Eyes?

Because I was

4-shot

and I couldn't believe I lived long enough to use all my shots and without even having to claim earlier. I am happy to get it all off my chest and besides you said we only have one mislim at hand so I wanted you to have all possible resources/info before you

[Eyes without a face]

I think that might just be a fake claim. But maybe I am wrong.

Why would I fake claim out of the blue here? I am not even being pushed today (at least not yet). My results don't even clear or condemn anyone 100% either

[Eyes without a face]

The Night 2 Nero follow is really suspicious, but perhaps so suspicious that scum wouldn't have said it.

Why is it sus to you? Nero lead the Wu mislim and didn't appear to have much of a change in his reads so I wanted to be sure that I read him correct this time.
If you check my games I was in one with him recently and I FoS'd his slot because his predecessor (Ugly Duck) replaced out after having confirmed but not posted in the main thread. The town didn't like my take and I somehow managed to give in and find a way to townread him and.. he flipped scum.

[Eyes without a face]

Why was Nero not higher here given your result? The Dragons read does make sense, though.

Precisely

because

of the result. I tried to make it look like there's a chance for Nero to be misyeeted so it would be less likely for him to get shot at night

[Eyes without a face]

Why is it sus to you?

Because I believe the mafia killed Nero due to having information on him and this could be that very information or you could have produced this claim as a mafia rolecop.

Interesting. And as a mafia rolecop why am I clearing you of all slots? You were the one I'm pivoted to besides frog. Now it would be silly for me to even bring your name up as a lim without a proper case made by someone else.

[Eyes without a face]

Also, this theory is further supported by the death of Enchant. If they had info on Nero, it explains why they waited to kill Enchant even though they were out of roleblocks. Because Nero might have protected Enchant.

OK. Got it.

[Eyes without a face]

Why is it sus to you?

Because I believe the mafia killed Nero due to having information on him and this could be that very information or you could have produced this claim as a mafia rolecop.

Interesting. And as a mafia rolecop why am I clearing you of all slots? You were the one I'm pivoted to besides frog. Now it would be silly for me to even bring your name up as a lim without a proper case made by someone else.

It doesn't clear me. But if you in fact rolecopped me -- quite reasonable given implications I made earlier -- you would know I could not possibly have acted Night 4.

That's irrelevant. At this point I believe all living players are either scum or VT (aside from Math and myself). I don't think the town has more PRs, so I could have picked anyone else to semi-clear if I was faking.

But I don't think I can change the way you feel about me so I'll concede you have a point in the Nero NK coming after I followed him.

[Eyes without a face]

just listen and follow our leader fire to victory

fire isn't even voting anyone though

[Eyes without a face]

My vote is virtually on (as of that should not be clear already) but I am waiting for Mathblade to finish his interrogation and give us the signal to move on

[Eyes without a face]

Le sigh. If anyone else did it I'd probably have been calling them scum with frog, but it seems the confirmed townie is the one starting the counter wagon. Oh, well.. consider my vote sporotually on Cape then. I do want frog more though but I don't even have a result on either so whatever

[Eyes without a face]

@Math: Are you almost done analyzing stuff? Should I actually be voting now?

[Eyes without a face]

VOTE: Cape

[Eyes without a face]

My mind is shattered over how everybody's got a different view of the game. Literally not a single player aside from Mathblade is being actively FoS'd by someone or another.

[Eyes without a face]

why did everyone target me n1

Personally I did it because you were going unnoticed so you could have been either scum skating or a TPR and I wanted to know where to put you on my read list.

[Eyes without a face]

VOTE: april Cape was townie by dayplay

what did galron tell you about the nightplay?

If galron claimed Town Friendly Neighbor on me then I hard claim NOT receiving any messages

What if he also claimed Loyal? lolololol

[Eyes without a face]

eyes prefers frog strongly.

Not sure why they aren't voting Frog, then.

Why aren't you?

[Eyes without a face]

I will once again wait for Mathblade's contributiin before I do vote FROG

[Eyes without a face]

I'm thinking Eyes and Galron have really low activity counts so start pressuring there and see what they do VOTE: Eyes

I wonder how long before someone shouts distancing and decide to team me with Frog (whom I've been calling scum all game, btw. Ever since he asked that weird question about quantum mechanics and universe origins on day one)

[Eyes without a face]

@Math: You do realize that you have been shielding Frog for as long as you have been playing in this game, right? May I request you remind us of HEM's read on Frog in the masons thread?

[Eyes without a face]

Eyes, it’s interesting to me that you haven’t responded to people clearly doubting your claim. You’ve had a lot to say about a lot of things, and based on your play here I would have expected you to be more outraged that your claim isn’t believed

Would it make the game status better if I went berserk? Is there anything I can say or do that would make my claim more believable to you/anyone else? I guess we both know the answer to these two questions so what's the point?

Now if you have some specific questions I'd be happy to answer them, but outraged I am not going to act.

[Eyes without a face]

I have a couple questions for you.

Why did you select these players to follow when you did:
N1 STD (No Action)

N3 Deas (No Action)

And second, if you scum read me all game why did you never follow me?

As I said I picked the people to follow based on my own expectation of them making it long into the game. It would have been useless from my PoV to follow someone who was likely to get chopped soon anyway and that should also explain why I never followed you because I suspected you and expected you to go down sometime earlier.

[Eyes without a face]

STD presence wasn't much on D1 yet nobody was looking at him and it looked like there were at least 7 players that were being evaluated before anyone would even notice him. Deas was almost the same by D3. By D3 the game status looked like giving him a pass for a long time.

Who would you have picked to follow if you were me?

[Eyes without a face]

I would've seriously considered VP as well

You would have considered the guy that claimed ASCETIC???

[Eyes without a face]

@Math: You do realize that you have been shielding Frog for as long as you have been playing in this game, right? May I request you remind us of HEM's read on Frog in the masons thread?

I don’t remember I am too lazy and feeling sick and you’re probably scum so??

What does this have to do with my question? And then people complain I am not participating enough! Sheesh!

[Eyes without a face]

Would you have been willing to do the effort if someone that was "probably not scum" asked instead of me?

[Eyes without a face]

Then why did you add that specific bit when you could have stopped at mentioning lazy and sick??

[Eyes without a face]

lol.. ok. that makes more sense now. thank you