why would I ask you in the neighborhood instead of in the thread? This is much easier and more transparent.In post 2729, Cape90 wrote:In the neighborhood you circus performer
Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame
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Did you and HEM have any good thoughts overnight that are worth sharing? Who do you think is suspicious on the Wu wagon?In post 2542, MathBlade wrote:
Mainly I don’t want to rush this day as I want to see Human’s reads and give a last will of sorts since I am probably dying. Got a lot of slots to sort and would prefer this go slower not faster (another reason wagon looks SvS between the two)In post 2534, Nero Cain wrote:I mean, can't we just vote in the hood?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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This isn't entirely unpersuasive.In post 2552, MathBlade wrote:3) The lack of noticing who is on the playerlist doesn’t correspond to their shot claim. They said “someone who started with F” okay still multiple people. If they intended it to be one fua would have just said the name. Instead Skitter goes why fire and Fua goes along with it.
So Fua can’t have suddenly forgot Frog exists while making a PoE of who they shot. That seems off.
The lack of a CC thing is notable though. You'd expect a second killing role in a game this size.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Really? I mean, I don't think fire is super scummy, but I don't see fire as being particularly prickly either.In post 2569, skitter30 wrote:@frof i like fire because they're making good, cogent points abt the game in a pique-ish manner that wont endear them to anybody. They're trying to solve but arent trying to end up on anyone's 'good' list
While I have you, who were you scumreading coming into today before this whole fua fight? Setting fua aside, who is scum on the Wu wagon?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Really? I mean, I don't think fire is super scummy, but I don't see fire as being particularly prickly either.In post 2569, skitter30 wrote:@frof i like fire because they're making good, cogent points abt the game in a pique-ish manner that wont endear them to anybody. They're trying to solve but arent trying to end up on anyone's 'good' list
While I have you, who were you scumreading coming into today before this whole fua fight? Setting fua aside, who is scum on the Wu wagon?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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ok, hadn't gotten to this post yet in my catch up.In post 2607, Cape90 wrote:Firstly, I thought the votes were still split between Yeet and GeneralWu. So I didn't even think we were near hammer, which is why I kept talking.
You surely saw there was a series of votes on Wu rapidly at that point didn't you? Did you look at the vote count before you voted?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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How is that self evident? That's not evident to me at all. There were like three or four rapid votes on him after me.In post 2608, Cape90 wrote:
Also this partIn post 2607, Cape90 wrote:So I didn't even think we were near hammer, which is why I kept talking.
I would think this would be pretty self-evident which makes me suspicious that you question me on this VPYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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I don't agree. There is too much suspicion in the hood for it to be useful right now. People should post their thoughts in the main thread so everyone can see, and the night posting is just giving potential guidance to scum. If it gets purged of scum or we get strong town reads of people in the hood, then it becomes useful as a soft-mason thread. Otherwise, hoods are kind of meh.In post 2610, MathBlade wrote:This doesn’t make sense at all.
Discussing reads in hoods is protown
Pushing people to post is protown.
Can you elaborate on why you say this?
And the hood should be used regardless of scum presence.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Note to self to go back and review the thread leading up to Cape's vote.In post 2611, Cape90 wrote:I am gonna be honest, I wasn't counting at all, I just remembered this one VC I saw and thought we were approximately there it was like you had 4 votes and Wu had 5 or something. There might have been a very quick shift in threadstate because it really wasn't that far off from where I was.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Look, I'm not going to ding you over potentially changing your Wu read anymore. Clearly, there is a world where you are town and had a better read than me. I think some of our arguing has not been that productive, but there is a certain aspect to your insistence that I'm scum that I find weirdly townie. There is a reason I've never voted you, even if I think some of your thought processes don't make a lot of sense to me.In post 2661, Nero Cain wrote:
I'd argue that thinking that a player is scum and then rethinking whether or not they are really scum isn't bad town play. I guess you could also argue that Wu was so terrible that it was "good" townplay to get rid of him and maybe?In post 2655, VP Baltar wrote:You could just be terrible town here.
The place where you and I agree is that we should lim inside the neighborhood today. I would like if you could take a look at what I"m saying about Cape and give me your thoughts. I will review skitter and we can reconvene to see if either of us change our minds.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Not scum being self conscious about their vote and trying to justify it withIn post 2674, MathBlade wrote:
If anything because it has hyperlinks it was not a planned hammer so lean more townIn post 2667, Yeet wrote:Cape your hammer is not NAI because there is obvious scum motivation to do it.~reasons~?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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If I'm giving Cape the benefit of the doubt here, this is so stream of conscious and aimless when it comes to speaking to actual scum motivation from me that is perhaps possible he just spent his morning building this post rather than my original thought that his wall was a honed attack at me. Could be emotional reaction from him to being voted and he is OMGUSing me.In post 2673, Cape90 wrote:The "your better then this!" thing seems forced in at 684.
In 750 VP was talking about how Nero was having this read on GeneralWu's fluffposting calling that "whatever". Anyway, oddly enough in 1293 they vote Wu, cool, so as a sidestep, how does that progress? 1344, 1939 (woah calm down there buddy, I thought Wu was "whatever" ). 1940, 1952, you know, just a casual getting aggressive, also HEM was mega towny at this point, especially with MathBlade on board so as they say in like middle school or something, ratio. gottem. 1995 Gotta ask Ari twice I guess. 2004, 2009, and then they just 2222 they, they.. they... vote yeet?? Oh let's ignore 2214 though . Well, there was 2381. But then like, a post later, they just... kinda swap back to GeneralWu (2388) who I still don't really get why VP pushed here. Also wouldn't Wu be the logical play? You said so yourself 2128.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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IDK, maybe there is just a lot of distrust in the hood and it's actually townie, but seems likely setup spec there is at least one scum in there. Those are better odds than what I'm seeing being presented as counter cases (fua scum for example). Cleaning the hood would actually make it matter. I don't think that's a bad D2 strat at all.In post 2802, MathBlade wrote:Nah not interested in elimming in the hood unless activity picks up. It’s not a threat to scum so I would rather focus on what is a threat to scum.
If you want me to elim in the hood act like the hood mattersYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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My question is why you didn't skim pages inbetween to see if votes had shifted? Even if you aren't reading, that's pretty standard play isn't it?In post 2772, Cape90 wrote:EoD VC is 2438 which really isn't that long of a time from the other VC I pulled up,YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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I will confirm that Math's read of me generally speaking is correct. I very often get scum read because I'm a little direct with people in games (and I'm convinced my avi makes people sus of me). It happens regardless of alignment. Datisi has played with me a ton and can verify.In post 2792, fireisredsir wrote:
hrmm, intereshting. i have not meta read VP yet maybe i should. i wouldn't have guessed that tho, if that's the case it makes me a little less interested. early on i had him read as strong poster relatively helpful townie, but some things made me start to not trust. if he often draws suspicion then... eh. could still be scum but im kinda less into itIn post 2783, MathBlade wrote:
I’d much prefer tene and Scorpio over VP.In post 2776, fireisredsir wrote:
im not either tbh but there's things that look scummy to me and i think it's a good wagonIn post 2773, MathBlade wrote:Not sold on VP.
VP’s play reminds me of the game I was recently with him. He was widely scumread but a PR. I think people perceive him as a viable target whatever his alignment. He could be scum but I trust HEM’s read of tene and Scorpio more.
monkey scumread tene tho? idr him talking about that in threadYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Deets you should know:In post 2831, Enchant wrote:Well i am replace of Fua.
Math is confirmed Mason.
There is a hood of: Nero, skitter, Cap90, VP.
There's a lot of useless posting in this game (maybe even some from me in the last few pages while I was catching up, sorry all!)YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Right, what I'm saying is that should have been easy to spot at even a passing glimpse. You saw the vote count but didn't see any of the 7 votes that happened shortly after it?In post 2838, Cape90 wrote:This all happened in the span of one page by the way.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Well, I am actually scumhunting and asking questions to determine people's alignments. Big agenda energy.In post 2842, tenebrousluminary wrote:Going for Scorp today is lazy. I think scum would love nothing more than for us to waste another day.
VOTE: VPB, but I think Yeet has an agenda today too.
What are you doing btw? Didn't you vote dragons? Is that fundamentally different from a Scorp wagon?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Hmm, alright. I'll think about this. I am assuming you are saying you only saw the Math and fua votes just before yours?In post 2855, Cape90 wrote:
I saw some of them but I really didn't think it shifted that muchIn post 2848, VP Baltar wrote:
Right, what I'm saying is that should have been easy to spot at even a passing glimpse. You saw the vote count but didn't see any of the 7 votes that happened shortly after it?In post 2838, Cape90 wrote:This all happened in the span of one page by the way.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Oh, I'm ascetic too, fyiIn post 2834, Enchant wrote:
Understood.In post 2833, VP Baltar wrote:
Deets you should know:In post 2831, Enchant wrote:Well i am replace of Fua.
Math is confirmed Mason.
There is a hood of: Nero, skitter, Cap90, VP.
There's a lot of useless posting in this game (maybe even some from me in the last few pages while I was catching up, sorry all!)YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Because I'm town, and since when does town policy lim ascetic? That's just dumb.In post 2863, MathBlade wrote:Any reason we shouldn’t turbo elim you on policy?
Pedit- uh okYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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In post 2869, Datisi wrote:i've been playing for almost314 years and i have never seen anyone actually policy a millerYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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This is wildly paranoid if you're town. It's also very vagueIn post 2917, tenebrousluminary wrote:it's the softer and more timid shading of me coming from other places that I'm more concerned about. I'm being kept in the elim pool and saved for later. No, I do not have an exhaustive list of who is guilty of this.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Been thinking about this today. I sort of think there are two possible things maybe going on here. Either:In post 2981, MathBlade wrote:Pretty much all of HEM’s scumreads are wagons or sussed
Namely tene Scorpio and April. Skitter has her tell and stock equity goes way up if April is.
1) it is close to what HEM thought and a lot of the low content/impact people are on the scum team.
Or
2) the scum are more well hidden than town has really pushed. Something like a Datisi/skitter or Cape/fire core.
I can see a HEM kill in either scenario, so that isn't too helpful. The wagon also doesn't help clarify a ton for me either.
If you have a strong inclination to do the low volume pool today Math, I may just give you my vote to use. Tenebros explanations maybe seem the most contrived, but his frustration also read sort of real. IdkYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Referring to the wu wagon here obvIn post 2986, VP Baltar wrote:The wagon also doesn't help clarify a ton for me either.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Yeah, of course. What I actually need to do is reread some of the early poking at tenebro and see how he responded in comparison.In post 2990, DeasVail wrote:Do you think the frustration could be experienced by scum under suspicion? I guess that’s my running theory currently particularly given the severity of reaction after being suspected by a few people. I think that being under suspicion feels like a much bigger deal (in general) to scum than to town.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Math claimed masons with HEM unprompted, and HEM confirmed that. HEM has since died and flipped mason.In post 2997, Scorpious wrote:Where is it made fact that Mathblade is town?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Did you not read overnight at all?In post 3015, April Ludgate wrote:I've had like three posts, anyone saying I'm scummy is pulling it out of their ass. I've only been in this game less than 48 hours total of day time.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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None of that applies if you replace in and have more than 100 pages to catch up on. Not the same situationIn post 3040, Yeet wrote:
Same, honestly.In post 3037, DeasVail wrote:
To be fair, I often avoid reading during night because of the flawed reasoning that I might die of someone else unexpected might die which would change things.In post 3035, Datisi wrote:
oh hey, this reminds me of the fact that scorpious entered the day complaining about how many pages there are and how he didn't read, after a period of 48 hours where there we absolutely no posts, isn't that wild hahaIn post 3033, VP Baltar wrote:Did you not read overnight at all?
Of course, I am just lazy, but it’s not hard to come up with a bad excuse!YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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I will say, Frogster's aloofness in this game is very different from his town play in the last game.In post 3095, Frogsterking wrote:Luminary are you pushing Malcolm now, what is happening?
What's up with that Frog? You've seemed not super engaged with the flow of the game for awhile now.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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You're starting to make me suspicious again. Are you actualky reading the day?In post 3137, Nero Cain wrote:Datisi, VP Baltar, Eyes without a face, April Ludgate, Skitter
^
correct vote poolYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Because your reads are very static. This is essentially the same pool you stated overnight in the hood I believe. Feels very safe for you to camp on and take pot shots at considering no one seems to care all that much.In post 3180, Nero Cain wrote:
i am. What's making you sus?In post 3177, VP Baltar wrote:
You're starting to make me suspicious again. Are you actualky reading the day?In post 3137, Nero Cain wrote:Datisi, VP Baltar, Eyes without a face, April Ludgate, Skitter
^
correct vote pool
VOTE: frogster BTW.
Will do this iso today, but frog was like losing his mind going after people for all kinds of tinfoil shit our last game where he was town and this game he is barely a presence. IdgiYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Vote scorp then? Why follow me?In post 3182, Datisi wrote:VOTE: frogster
not loving the fact that it feels like everyone and their mother is defending scorp, but let's see what happens hereYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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If town, then likely yes.In post 3186, Nero Cain wrote:Do my reads have to change?
Everything in your post after this is bloat.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Not true at all. Bad town of course will latch onto reads and death tunnel and conf bias, but scum feel obligated to create reasons to change reads. That's work. And people are lazy.In post 3189, Nero Cain wrote:Sorta think that town are the ones that will have stronger opinions and scum are the ones that wil be more open willing to change on the drop of a a hat-you know that you and dats
Anyhow, mafia theory debate isn't useful. If you're town, convince me why I should be voting skitter. Or Eyes for that reason. You're not doing that, as evidenced by the fact no one is following you.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Getting me to be a minor ass wagon on D2 is about as hard as getting rid of free pizza. (Also, would argue you actually did almost nothing to get this wagon)In post 3195, Nero Cain wrote:
*shrug*In post 3192, VP Baltar wrote:You're not doing that, as evidenced by the fact no one is following you.
There have been plenty of times when I've gone after scum and haven't been sheeped. But you are the leading wagon so...
You think you're truly going to get me limmed today with some lazy vote campers?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Which of the votes do you question?In post 3197, MathBlade wrote:Yeah I hate the sudden flurry with no case.
Malcom, can you link the game you're referring to?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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In post 3201, MathBlade wrote:
All of themIn post 3200, VP Baltar wrote:
Which of the votes do you question?In post 3197, MathBlade wrote:Yeah I hate the sudden flurry with no case.
Malcom, can you link the game you're referring to?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Is that the same though? This game he pushed Yeet almost all of D1 out of an RVS vote, and then followed tenebros onto fua/enchant (which I would assume you'd find interesting)In post 3202, MalcolmTucker wrote:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=88932In post 3200, VP Baltar wrote:
Which of the votes do you question?In post 3197, MathBlade wrote:Yeah I hate the sudden flurry with no case.
Malcom, can you link the game you're referring to?
Here you go. As I say only time we've played together and their approach was basically identical to this early on. They got a stronger read towards the end of the game though so not a completely neutral approach, but a lot of kinda softball questions and stuff like that.
In the game you linked he pushed Galron semi-aggressively early on, and had some tinfoil things like voting Not Mafia. He definitely has some softballs that game too, but I'm not certain it is analogous. Compare the ISOs directlyYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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The not really voting is the more concerning (though related) part. He isn't trying to do stuff, which seems atypical from what I just saw from froggerIn post 3209, MalcolmTucker wrote:Not necessarily identical but more just the general posting style seems similar. Frogster's definitely been less engaged this game I'd say but a lot of the softball questions and the like which helped sparked sudden interest in them don't feel out of character.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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What changed from 15 mins ago?In post 3211, Yeet wrote:Actually, I’m not sure I love this wagon anymore? I think I’ll stick around a bit just to see what happens.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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These are terrible reasons to lose spine on a wagon, and especially to townread frogsterIn post 3215, Yeet wrote:Re skim of ISO, weird naked adamance in pushing me
Skimming Malcolm’s provided ISO
Math’s adamance against the wagon
Enough to make me think it’s certainly possible this is town!Frogster.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Do you have meta that backs this up?In post 3223, Frogsterking wrote:I've gotten this feedback many times before in games or social situations after the size of the group is increased. I'm experiencing heightened feelings of vulnerability in this game so far compared to other games because of the high speed and large player count. It's observant of you but NAI and possibly scum motivated to push.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Why?In post 3229, Save The Dragons wrote:frogster pinged me in my catch up but i'm a little wary of the wagon so farYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Wary of the wagon. I get not liking Yeet's waffling, but I think what I'm picking up on here is real.In post 3233, Save The Dragons wrote:why'd he ping or why i'm wary of the wagonYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Ok, fairIn post 3236, Save The Dragons wrote:
i guess my best answer to both is i'm concerned more about yeet than i am about frogs at this pointIn post 3232, VP Baltar wrote:
Why?In post 3229, Save The Dragons wrote:frogster pinged me in my catch up but i'm a little wary of the wagon so farYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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I still want to yeet the fuck out of cape, but that was going nowhere. People are willing to give him a pass today even though he is doing nothing and had a very questionable hammer yesterday, as I've explained.In post 3244, fireisredsir wrote:
is this your strongest scumread at the moment? what other scumreads do you have?In post 3239, VP Baltar wrote: but I think what I'm picking up on here is real.
If I was going to compromise on something, I might be willing to back a tenebros wagon, but I go back and forth there.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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I looked at his iso here, the game Malcom linked, and the recent game I played with frog. It's not a convincing point that he is town.In post 3245, Yeet wrote:“I reskimmed their ISO and reevaluated them, read an example of their townplay”, these are bad reasons but themselves?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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@fire - this is a very recent post from me that indicates where my head is at in terms of scum hunting. My frogster realization came after this obv.In post 2986, VP Baltar wrote:
Been thinking about this today. I sort of think there are two possible things maybe going on here. Either:In post 2981, MathBlade wrote:Pretty much all of HEM’s scumreads are wagons or sussed
Namely tene Scorpio and April. Skitter has her tell and stock equity goes way up if April is.
1) it is close to what HEM thought and a lot of the low content/impact people are on the scum team.
Or
2) the scum are more well hidden than town has really pushed. Something like a Datisi/skitter or Cape/fire core.
I can see a HEM kill in either scenario, so that isn't too helpful. The wagon also doesn't help clarify a ton for me either.
If you have a strong inclination to do the low volume pool today Math, I may just give you my vote to use. Tenebros explanations maybe seem the most contrived, but his frustration also read sort of real. Idk
Are you asking for like a ranked reads list or something?YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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What?In post 3259, Nero Cain wrote:I think people had mentioned Frog like right b4 he voted thoughYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Why did you omit the context that Yeet was replying to my original suspicion. That's scummy afIn post 3261, Nero Cain wrote:In post 3178, Yeet wrote:Yeah, I think Frogster is being slept on after the very early game which felt kinda townie.
so it seemed a little opportunistic. + I don't think he ever mentioned frog up until that point and if he was meta scum reading Frog why was he just now mentioning it?In post 3181, VP Baltar wrote:VOTE: frogster BTW.
Will do this iso today, but frog was like losing his mind going after people for all kinds of tinfoil shit our last game where he was town and this game he is barely a presence. IdgiYOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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I'll give these a read today. thanks.In post 3270, Frogsterking wrote:Compared to the above example, there is more structure in this game because Mizzy and theworst are able to stay on top of the votes, but there is far more chaos underlying that structure here than what I experienced in the above example, so I imagine the change may be more noticeable and seem even more pushable than it did before.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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@Yeet, this is the most substantive thing I see you saying about frog in your ISO before I brought him up. Is there something you thing I'm missing?In post 2025, Yeet wrote:My townread on Frogsterking also kind of dropped.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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People who are scummy/I would yeet today:In post 3278, fireisredsir wrote:i just want to know who you think looks scummy on an individual level. if you want to give a ranked list, go for it, that would answer my question, but it's not necessary, just give some names of who you individually scumread.
Cape
Frogster
tenebros
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skitter
Yeet
Eyes
(From top to bottom tier is increasingly compromising)YOUR AD HERE - VP Baltar
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