Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[VP Baltar]

Mafia is weird

Am high AMA

Best song to listen to rn while high?

[VP Baltar]

Like why is April's slot under so little pressure? It was heavily pushed on day one, Ari left the game, April came in, argued they weren't mafia based on their lack of posting, despite being a replace-in, then accused me and admitted they had no clue as to what was actually going on in the game while doing so, and yet has stuck to that wagon since. It's just such a nonsense case and it's ridiculous town are even contemplating it at the moment.

Let's assume April's case against you is incorrect, why should that automatically mean town should be pressuring April?

Ari's slot was under heavy pressure day one but that basically died out right after the replacement. Which can basically apply to about half the game now.

So we should have pressured because of the Ari wagon? I don't even remember who started that tbh. Did you look up who was pressuring Ari? Curious if you have particular people in mind

[VP Baltar]

one is a CLAIMED VIG

Wait what? I never claimed vig.

Enchant is the claimed vig. Previously fua

[VP Baltar]

I'm worried shinier topics are going to distract from the VP wagon.

Scum tears

[VP Baltar]

HEM was pretty vocal about sortng Yeet and even joined my vanity wagon for a little while

What do you mean by vanity wagon?

[VP Baltar]

If VP is town, I believe he would expect that ultimately I would come to see this. But the dismissal of me and lack of attempt to show me the light does not match with this. I think VP is playing more like scum, who has written me off as someone who will continue scumreading him, and is focusing on maintaining his existing allies for survival.

Nah, I'm not trying to convince you right now. You made it clear long ago that you've hitched your wagon to fire. That's fine, not my problem. I'm not going to try to convince you you're wrong when everything I say, both of you come in to defend the other.

Town will flip fire eventually and then you can explain.

As far as survival, hardly. If anything I've leaned into my lim. I know what my flip is and I know by directly attacking the scummiest people on my wagon to get them to slip up (as happened with fire), that my flip becomes much more powerful for town. If I happen to live today, it's not because I'm out here begging and pleading to not be yeeted, it's because town can recognize what I'm doing. The arguments for my wagon have always been weak and amorphous, but scum want to ride that shit into the dirt I guess.

[VP Baltar]

What id, we voted out VP as a birthday present?

Luv u bb

[VP Baltar]

So many scum tears over my wagon not happening rn.

I think scorpious is an OK compromise today, but he was far from the scummiest on my wagon.

[VP Baltar]

Let's flashwagon someone else.

Get on this fire wagon.

[VP Baltar]

Let's flashwagon someone else.

Get on this fire wagon.

What is the case against Fire, since you insist cases are mandatory?

I talk about everyone on my wagon and why they do or do not look scummy in 3760. You also have Fire's unintelligible claim that it is "decently likely" im scum with Malcom, but he abandons my much larger wagon because he said at the time he didn't think it was likely to happen (which makes no sense if you're leaving for an even smaller wagon with minimal momentum).

[VP Baltar]

He is scum, so that's less surprising.

Why are you even asking me questions if youre going to have bad faith arguments that are not even remotely accurate? Please stop wasting my time if you're conf biased or scum.

[VP Baltar]

yea except i never said that my leaving had anything to do with me thinking yours wasn't likely to happen lol. we've been over this

Yep. Your bad semantics based responses are all in thread for anyone to read.

[VP Baltar]

It's very funny to me that the 5 people on my wagon are making constant snipes and jibes at me anytime I respond to any of them. An attack on one, is an attack on all! The town on this wagon should be incredibly embarrassed by their play.

[VP Baltar]

5) VP kinda flips out and starts making repeated logical and comprehension errors

Incorrect. Keep shading though.

This is all in the thread and easy to read. Don't know what you think propaganda like this achieves.

[VP Baltar]

He is scum, so that's less surprising.

Why are you even asking me questions if youre going to have bad faith arguments that are not even remotely accurate? Please stop wasting my time if you're conf biased or scum.

What bad faith argument did I make? If you have been mischaracterized, you should be upset with Nero, not me.

Lol yeah, you and Nero shading me for an answer to your question that I did not give is certainly good faith on your part.

I was typing up a response to you, but ya had to get some shade in there before you even heard the answer.

[VP Baltar]

Cape, the scorpious argument is basically that he is intentionally coasting at this point, right?

[VP Baltar]

Let's flashwagon someone else.

Get on this fire wagon.

What is the case against Fire, since you insist cases are mandatory?

I talk about everyone on my wagon and why they do or do not look scummy in 3760. You also have Fire's unintelligible claim that it is "decently likely" im scum with Malcom, but he abandons my much larger wagon because he said at the time he didn't think it was likely to happen (which makes no sense if you're leaving for an even smaller wagon with minimal momentum).

@tene - you're merely proving my point that this is an argument in bad faith

[VP Baltar]

I posted it. You just didn't read so you could snark

[VP Baltar]

Oh jesus that "decently likely" thing? That was such weak shit. I'm actually laughing irl that that's your brilliant case.

I won't deny that I am absolutely arguing in bad faith here. You're scum and others need to see it.

Yeah, if town, you're very bad at this game, but I keep trying, so...

[VP Baltar]

Ok, my general thought on the Malcom case after review: I think April is presenting a view of the game that makes some sense, but is largely dependent on a tene!town read. What I did like is that I'm seeing logical consistency from April as to why she is pushing it (also helps explain her Frogster town read), and if correct there is good potential to shift the dynamics of the game in a clearer scumhunting direction.

It's definitely not a slam dunk case, and parts of it are reaching over semantics ("actual evidence") than I probably would do. April, of course, is already admitting it isn't a slam dunk.

I may be willing to support April here given I do think the upside is significant. My hesitation is that I do think fire is much more likely to be scum, and his bail off of me at E-2 and onto Malcom is weird if you think of them as S-S.

Like why is April's slot under so little pressure? It was heavily pushed on day one, Ari left the game, April came in, argued they weren't mafia based on their lack of posting, despite being a replace-in, then accused me and admitted they had no clue as to what was actually going on in the game while doing so, and yet has stuck to that wagon since. It's just such a nonsense case and it's ridiculous town are even contemplating it at the moment.

Let's assume April's case against you is incorrect, why should that automatically mean town should be pressuring April?

@ cape, I reviewed April's case yesterday and here is where I landed on it. I don't think he is more scummy than Fire, but there is a worldview where April is right and I'm not opposed to taking that chance. Not my preference today, but will help/am open to convincing.

[VP Baltar]

5) VP kinda flips out and starts making repeated logical and comprehension errors

Incorrect. Keep shading though.

This is all in the thread and easy to read. Don't know what you think propaganda like this achieves.

has anyone agreed with your representation of events?

It's not a representation. It's very basic reading of your logical consistency and motivations. The only people actively against what I said are you same jabronis who claim every word I say is scum. When people are ready to consider fire scum, they will see what I'm saying. I don't need to beat a dead horse to be right.

[VP Baltar]

Oh jesus that "decently likely" thing? That was such weak shit. I'm actually laughing irl that that's your brilliant case.

I won't deny that I am absolutely arguing in bad faith here. You're scum and others need to see it.

Yeah, if town, you're very bad at this game, but I keep trying, so...

Neg me harder.

This type of attitude from VP is annoying.

Thanks for the birthday wishes.

As far as my attitude, that's NAI. I dont play soft with people who are intentionally acting with bad faith toward me and taking cheap shots for dozens of pages. I'm sure out of context, I look like the asshole here, but I assure you it has been earned.

[VP Baltar]

I feel like the social groups of this game are weird. The game has devolved into camps, which likely isn't good.

I agree with this.

[VP Baltar]

Put another way a majority of the game TRs VP and a majority of the game TRs Scorpious
So by numbers they aren’t happening.

So best to try something new

I will vote Malcom or scorpious here soon since no one is joining the fire wagon. Kind of want to give them another day or two here to prove towniness.

[VP Baltar]

Put another way a majority of the game TRs VP and a majority of the game TRs Scorpious
So by numbers they aren’t happening.

So best to try something new

I will vote Malcom or scorpious here soon since no one is joining the fire wagon. Kind of want to give them another day or two here to prove towniness.

Give who time to prove towniness?

Malcom and scorpious. Malcom has a few outstanding questions and things to respond to. Scorpious has been catching up since....forever. Neither is my top choice for a lim, but I'm not going to get what I want today and I need to move my vote to a more useful place.

[VP Baltar]

Tell you what April, I'll give Malcom today to respond. Lacking that, I'll give you my vote by EOD

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: VP

Nope. Now I kinda want VP since Galron is pinging me hard.

My meta the past few posts has been extremely different from prior games he has seen me in so I suspect that was coached which means I am doing what scum want so VP needs to go even though I personally TR him

Regardless of flip Galron needs to die.

What does flipping me have to do with galron?

[VP Baltar]

Because if you were informed I was a mason before making that post then there’s no reason to put out a town read on me because conf town.

I don't think math is wrong about this. Weird to say you saw math confirmed town and then posted a town case. I'll check timestamps on this later...


Anyhow,

VOTE: malcom

I think it's me, Malcom or Scorp today. After taking some time to deliberate, Scorp is kind of a low info yeet. I'm still not sold on Malcom, but I think it's a flip that will help illuminate April's alignment more clearly, and that is good for the game long term.

No offense if it ends up being me today, just consider my reads seriously when I'm dead if that is the case.

Pedit- Nero remains the biggest village idiot in this game. I stated in the hood that those are the only reasonable yeets and he comes into thread to state it like he isn't regurgitating my thoughts as his own.

[VP Baltar]

I think his language in the hood is kinda funky. He started out saying that "anyone reasonable would think there's scum here." but more recently has used "potential scum" and at one point said something like "because Nero thinks there's scum here." and it just feels like he's trying to straddle the fence between looking like he's uninformed and being informed idk.

This is wildly inaccurate and cherry picked. My position in scum in the hood has always been that's more likely than not the case. I call you a village idiot because it is unlikely any scum would be so obviously wrong on things that are quite easy to fact check. As I just stated to you in the hood, I would like to stop having this same conversation with you repeatedly. I don't think it is productive and youve done more than your share to bloat this game.

[VP Baltar]

he was yelling and screaming for a Wu lim and now he's just kinda reserved.

Who are you trying to fool with this? Titus and galron most likely since they were not here I guess. I'm being run up because 'boo hoo vp is so mean and calling people scum with his so many misreps, etc,' but I'm also reserved and timid I guess?

Like I said, you are running a marketing campaign rather than actually scum hunting. You've wasted so much of the town's time today with a nonsense wagon on me, and you should do some self reflection if youre town, but you won't.

[VP Baltar]

Vig Dragons, Titus, Galron, or the survivor of Malc/VP if they flip town.

So you think all these people are scum?

[VP Baltar]

must be doing a halfway decent job if you are the leading wagon. Kinda funny that you were blasting me earlier for not being able to build a wagon on you.

As I've stated, people are being lazy. You've led a town wagon. Congrats. You're big smart.

[VP Baltar]

Problem with this game is there are too many people playing anti-town. Plain and simple. We can't even vig our way out of it.

Best thing we can do is for the town folks who are reading the game more accurately to find each other, bloc up, and drag the weaker players to victory. The sad thing is my town flip would help with this.

[VP Baltar]

Vig Dragons, Titus, Galron, or the survivor of Malc/VP if they flip town.

So you think all these people are scum?

No, but I don't townread them and I think they'd provide some info.

What info does a Dragons vig provide?

[VP Baltar]

My last wish is deaths in this order regardless of VP’s flip

1) Galron. Dude scumslipped and faked reads and it’s freakin obvious. Skitter30 also had a tell of pings.
2) April. April needs death. The fact they haven’t got an elim off at this point and Ari’s defense of Galron is bad AF
3) Titus unless she pushes a scum elim fast. As I said there was a scum in Datisi/Wu

Wake me in dead thread if there is still a game after that

Explain how it's a scumslip like I'm 5? I see the inconsistency but it seems like such a silly mistake, idk.

Math is saying that Galron gave a "town" read on Math so Galron would look like he has accurate and good reads this game. Math is alleging that Galron already knew Math was a mason (something galron seemingly confirmed?).

[VP Baltar]

I'd love to know why Scorp is always pushed instead of him.

Wouldn't vigging scorpion provide that information much more directly?

[VP Baltar]

Not that any of this matters since the vig is either blocked or fake. Leaning towards fake. Why are we even talking about this?

Idk on the validity of the vig, but agree with you that it is unlikely we get an actual result, so it is definitely a whatever conversation

[VP Baltar]

i don't see why scum would try so hard to get a nothingburger slot limmed over one of the two wagons people posting

This isn't an entirely terrible point either. Hrm.

[VP Baltar]

VP what would you be doing differently if you were scum this game?

Not listing so many people off and drawing so much attention to myself. I probably would have played nice with Nero earlier and wouldn't have opened the day in a very aggressive manner. I'd be calling town players who are on the wrong track smart and be playing with my long term survivability in mind.

[VP Baltar]

It seems like the case is basically that Galron is stupid then?

No. Math was suspicious of skitter before and he thinks galron made a TMI error, which happens all the time to scum.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, so I checked the timestamps and what Galron is saying does check out, at least chronologically.

I told galron at 9:38am (my time) that Math was a mason.

At 9:52 am, galron posts his Math "looks like he is town".

I think if you're being generous to galron, that could read as him lumping a bunch of ideas together into a single post. In that case, he would be saying something like 'I read the last few pages, here is what I think, oh and regardless Math is town.'

You could also interpret that post as galron trying to give a town read of Math for town points, but my thought would probably just leave it in the NAI bin since we can't know for sure.

[VP Baltar]

EBWOP (ie, fuck you autocorrect)

VP what would you be doing differently if you were scum this game?

Not

pissing

so many people off and drawing so much attention to myself. I probably would have played nice with Nero earlier and wouldn't have opened the day in a very aggressive manner. I'd be calling town players who are on the wrong track smart and be playing with my long term survivability in mind.

[VP Baltar]

ok paranoid thought but what if it's cape and the reason he was hard scumreading VP but then lost interest when the wagon picked up is cause he doesn't actually want the flip cause that narrows down the hood. cape/malcolm seems very compelling to me tbh

Seems like we flip Malcom first in that scenario, right? A Malcom scum flip probably makes you look better and gives April big credit.

[VP Baltar]

I'm not bothered enough to look back and fact check this, but I recall VP not long ago saying that the aggressive play was NAI?

(Also if scum he's not going to say that people trying to elim him are smart)

There is a point where you need to care more about your social game as scum than you do as town, generally speaking.

[VP Baltar]

But I do worry how much we'll actually find out if VP comes back town post-elimination.

Just follow my reads if I flip town. Scum wanted me dead for a reason. I think Nero will also deserve scrutiny if yall end up feeling that cape and skitter are town later.

[VP Baltar]

*galron

[VP Baltar]

At least as of this post, remains fence-sitting re: Malcolm, probably hesitant to opportunistically switch wagons but also not wanting to close it off as an opportunity.

I already voted Malcom.

[VP Baltar]

ok yea i wasn't really that convinced of that being a slip, but you're right that VP's interpretation there is extremely generous to galron

This is what scum pocketing Math looks like btw. He would be the number one person I'd try to pocket if I was scum and I would definitely keep him alive for awhile.

[VP Baltar]

The big scum giveaway for fire is that he hasn't had any original ideas since like D1. He is clearly very smart, and smart people take actions outside the safety of what's popular. I could write a whole case about that, but I doubt that is worth my time at this point because the wagon isn't going to flip. When I'm dead, look at that very closely.

[VP Baltar]

if you mean "hasn't suspected anyone that hasn't already been suspected", then uh maybe thats cause everyone has been suspected at this point

This is what I mean. You're not really pushing people that don't have other people pushing harder. It gives you cover

[VP Baltar]

Happy birthday bro.

Happy bday to you both!

[VP Baltar]

Why are you doubting yourself immensely

Don’t you think scum is in the wagons

i did and now i am doubting that. why am i perpetually paralyzed by self-doubt and indecision? idk i can't afford a therapist ill get back to you in 5 or 6 years

If VP wasn’t scum he’d have been hammered by now.

Didn't you just say this about scorpious too?

[VP Baltar]

is scum required to pocket?

if you want to win, yes.

Tene, I think you and Nero are doing far more shading this game than I am doing. I'm sure there are times I've taking attacks too far out of annoyance, but everything I've said is rooted in very specific examples.

Nero tried to get me modkilled for crying out loud. You can't say I'm playing dirty pool here because I'm just not.

[VP Baltar]

After I'm dead, if I was scumhunting in the hood, I'd kill Galron first, then Nero, in that order btw.

Also, y'all need to sideline Nero in either case. He's tanking the game for town regardless of alignment and too many people, possibly scum, are encouraging that.

[VP Baltar]

Can you give an example tene?

Yes, just look up. 4404

I don't see how that's remotely shading. Also, you can't shade confirmed town. That's just a ridiculous thing to say.

[VP Baltar]

April, if I die here, think about what I said and don't blind tunnel Malcom.

[VP Baltar]

After I'm dead, if I was scumhunting in the hood, I'd kill Galron first, then Nero, in that order btw.

Also, y'all need to sideline Nero in either case. He's tanking the game for town regardless of alignment and too many people, possibly scum, are encouraging that.

As someone who's long thought you were probably mafia, the fact you're not particularly pushing me all that hard right now when it'd be the most beneficial thing for you to do is making me have second thoughts a bit. But could be clever play - make people view you as townie by not targeting someone you haven't suspected all that much.

If it was turn one Galron would be a good candidate right now. Their play is not giving out good vibes so far in the slightest.

I'm not particularly sold on you being scum. Also, I think my yeet will be more informative than yours (I know you hold the opposite view, but I've been a topic of discussion for much longer and people have way over committed to wanting me dead). I don't mind dying here today, and think you should probably just vote me if you're going to. I just want people to actually listen to what I'm saying after I'm dead and stop the level of anti-town play that's being allowed to take place this game.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: galron

front half of this wagon is good, back half is shifty, but this seems more likely to hit scum than Malcom flip.

[VP Baltar]

my only other thought is someone like an Eyes , Yeet, Galron, Titus scumteam has a vested interest in keeping a poorly playing VP alive so I continue to tunnel him instead of switching my focus to them.

if that's the scum team, I'm not the one playing shitty there. They are defending me for town cred because of your bad play and the people sheeping you.

[VP Baltar]

front half of this wagon is good, back half is shifty, but this seems more likely to hit scum than Malcom flip.

Front half? I am town now?

I think galron is more likely to flip scum based on his flaky play since coming into the game, and I don't think two scum in the hood, so that would make you town.

[VP Baltar]

but that would also mean that they want you in the game b/c you are doing nothing but pushing town so...

Nope, if you and that group IS all town, that means my green flip gives them a buffet of misyeets to plow through before any questions get asked. Yall have acted so sure I'm scum and built you're entire world views around that, that when I flip green you'll be easy pickings. The goal would be to defend me, but let me still die, which seemed quite likely at various points.

[VP Baltar]

but Gal voting Malcolm to put him in the lead seems like the exact opposite of willing to let you die no? I mean maybe you could argue that its reverse psycology to make me think that's what he's doing but I'm a simpleton and just think he's voting Malcolm to "tighten the wagons up" b/c he's either scum with you or is defending you for the town cred or maybe he can't count. At any rate, I don't think either of us should live till endgame.

Then get on this wagon, champ.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: malcom

We should yeet somebody and call it a day. Not sure what we are waiting for here.

[VP Baltar]

Were you not confident on the Galron wagon?

Upon further reflection, we should just stick to what we have today.

A misyeet of me isn't great, but better now than on D5, and my flip will be instructive. I think you should vote me and we will let the chips fall where they may.

[VP Baltar]

We could both be town here, but I've given my parting thoughts for people to follow when they have better info tomorrow.

[VP Baltar]

it's now 6 on malc, 5 on galron, and 3 on you, with nero currently on you but stating his intention to move to galron. you moving off galron onto malc isn't making it you vs malc, it's just making malc more likely to die over galron

given that, the noble sacrifice attitude falls a little flat

The galron people who left me will come back when they see that wagon isn't going to happen.

If I have one strength in this game, it's being able to read the social currents before they happen. (Which is also why I think it should be obvious I'm not scum given my antagonism of folks).

[VP Baltar]

Separate thought I just had is that if Malcom is town here, April coming in and starting a dueling wagon on him is pretty smart. It would be an artificial way to get town arguing over two town wagons, which is pretty much auto pilot for scum that day then. Could be tinfoil, but think more about the big picture here if malc and I are both green.

[VP Baltar]

How could April have known Malcolm would become a real wagon? I was the only one suspecting him at the time

Flavor's super power is crowd influence. I'm not saying that is absolutely the case, but a malc and vp town world would mean that's something to consider.

[VP Baltar]

Idk why you guys are just accepting that, it doesn’t make sense to me. Flavor literally could’ve pushed anyone else, yet he went for Malcolm just because he could? With like very little actual substance? Why not go for literally anyone else in the game who was probably being sussed way more

I think it’s impossible that Flavor predicted he could Malcolm a big thing. If there was some other scum agenda I’d be potentially interested but literally any other wagon would’ve been more practical and easy.

I don't think anyone is actually pushing this. I just said that could be a possibility in a world where we are both town...why are you freaking out about it?

[VP Baltar]

at this point i plan to stay on galron.

You have a strong scum read on galron than me, I'm so confused.

[VP Baltar]

I’m not freaking out about it, I’m just trying to understand the possible worlds and why you view this one as possible

So in a world where Malcom and I are both town, how does today go the way it does with such a hard effort to get either wagon over?

[VP Baltar]

Also, we have like 30 hours to wrap this up. So much fucking around is not good for making decisions

[VP Baltar]

fire can you reevaluate that world but with Galron as town and tell me what that looks like?

like all of galron/vp/malc town? then scum are probably inactive and apathetic lol. maybe like deas eyes cape titus or something, idk

In that world, Nero is probably scum, not cape.

[VP Baltar]

fire can you reevaluate that world but with Galron as town and tell me what that looks like?

like all of galron/vp/malc town? then scum are probably inactive and apathetic lol. maybe like deas eyes cape titus or something, idk

In that world, Nero is probably scum, not cape.

Nero isn't likely scum.

In that world? Yeah, he is.

[VP Baltar]

This still doesn’t address the clear scum slip from Galron and VP’s defense.

“You’re wrong” doesn’t address that.

Why do you always ignore things in games to fit your pet theory? This is such a fatal flaw in how you play the game.

I'm not defending galron so much as presenting facts that, if you read them a certain way, don't back up what you're saying. Keep in mind, I'm the only person who actually even understood what you're implying and I initially agreed with you. You need to learn to step back and evaluate much better.

It's absurd to think it is likely there are two scum in the hood. You have to do so many mental gymnastics to make your points work.

I have a very particular reason for my unvote of galron that has nothing to do with your thing, which I think is pretty NAI since it could be interpreted either way.

[VP Baltar]

This is so frustrating

[VP Baltar]

This is so frustrating

VP what should I do?

I think just let today play out. Playing the long game is probably more important.

[VP Baltar]

Math will live forever at this rate.

[VP Baltar]

I'd recommend town reread the last 24 hours with a thinking cap on and consider the galron wagon again.

[VP Baltar]

VP was a scumread of HEM.

Haha what? HEM and I were pretty synced up end of D1.

Anyhow, we can talk about this tomorrow. Lim Malcom or me.

[VP Baltar]

VP do you think it's malcolm or do you just think that's the best flip rn?

I think that's the best flip right now. I have a working theory about what is going on, and that would provide some information at least. My flip could also help, but I can't ethically vote for myself. (Have only once self voted as town I think to prove a point, and it was icky)

I don't think the galron wagon was really meant to counter Malcom, as April rightly pointed out, but it's created a lot of distraction now because Math isn't deeply reading the game.

[VP Baltar]

Of course math is rolefishing lol. Ffs. This game.

Pedit - fire, sorry I fought with you. And thanking you for towning. Would lim frogster still

[VP Baltar]

i still don't fully trust you VP fwiw bc in regards to this matter at least i think you would act the way you have if you were scum too, no?

Shrug, I don't know. That's fine if you don't trust me. I was the first person to pick up on what's going on and tried to steer us away from this ditch that math drove us straight into, but anyhow.

The people hyping math up here are much more likely to be scum.

[VP Baltar]

Of course math is rolefishing lol. Ffs. This game.

Pedit - fire, sorry I fought with you. And thanking you for towning. Would lim frogster still

VP trying to pocket fire now

Aka this

[VP Baltar]

like maf usually notice softing first since they know alignments already. i noticed it when you first did too so im not saying you're maf for it but you still could be. personally i thought i must be wrong about it bc i didn't think he would do it in that way

Idk, I think that's never a good spot to be in if you have info, particularly if it is only partial or not great info. I have been there. You feel a need to say something, but you're basically putting a target on your head.

There isn't a great way to handle it, especially with deadline coming fast.

I don't want to talk too much more about it, but I don't think Yeet is scum gambiting and protective roles on yeet tonight.

[VP Baltar]

So you think yeet softs some type of info they don't have to save a buddy going down, potentially tanking half great scum team? That's some wild ass play.

Pedit - @math

[VP Baltar]

*half of the scum team

[VP Baltar]

Would rather VP but that's sailed

I don't see how you're town

[VP Baltar]

Would rather VP but that's sailed

I don't see how you're town

Ok. Whatever.

I don't see how you walk away from me trying to steer Math gently and then more directly away from this debacle with the notion that I'm the most likely scum here.

[VP Baltar]

Tenebros has gone very quiet btw.

[VP Baltar]

If they had an inno it would be 100%

There are many roles that can give you an inclination without absolute clarity.

Example: THE GAME I JUST CLEARED YOU IN AND HAD TO CLAIM TO SAVE YOUR SLOT.

[VP Baltar]

limbait target

You're saying you're limbait? Who is this referring to?

[VP Baltar]

Frog is not a noob really.

I think giving April a Malcom lim isn't terrible. Eyes or scorpious is more limbait, but we need to make a call asap

[VP Baltar]

My preference is Scorpious but that I feel has sailed. It might be too late for eyes too.

I would back a scorpious lim. It's low info, but also extremely low risk.

[VP Baltar]

I still need to shot Galron?

Kill Nero plox

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: VP

If Math and Nero switch back that gets VP up to e-2 I think. Scum!VP flip for D2 is definitely still on the table, and I think it implies town!fire going forward because of VP's attempts to pocket fire in 4700, 4705 and 4709.

Kill this with fire when I'm dead

[VP Baltar]

@all

If Malcolm flips town, who is the scum in the hood (if any?)

If Malcolm flips scum, who is the scum in the hood (if any?)

There's a hood? Who is in it?

It's me/Nero Cain/VP Baltar/Galron

We think there is a scum in the hood judging by there being masons, one of which was

humaneatingmonkey

the other being MathBlade, who is confirmed town based off the monkey flip

Cape, when I flip green, if galron is really green, I need you to kill Nero. He will try to claim no scum in the hood probably

[VP Baltar]

So is calling me scum without a case

No one needs to case you. All signs point to you being scum. You're flailing back on to me now that galron is possibly clear. You fucked up trying to cowboy the hood. Not my fault you play a short game without thinking.

Flip me today, that's fine. It will be your death sentence.

[VP Baltar]

malcolm screams town to me in the way that scorpius screams town to tene and galron screams town to yeet

One of these things is not like the other.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: VP

If Math and Nero switch back that gets VP up to e-2 I think. Scum!VP flip for D2 is definitely still on the table, and I think it implies town!fire going forward because of VP's attempts to pocket fire in 4700, 4705 and 4709.

Kill this with fire when I'm dead

no

We are going to talk in the hood tonight if I live

[VP Baltar]

This just sounds like Math pride denying possible innos. I'm on and off in court all day but I'll check in when I can.

VOTE: Malcom

I think it's a mixture of that and them having the mason slot, and scum has just been able to play around Math which naturally warps the perspective of conf town. Nobody there to challenge them in that sense.

is Math literally not confirmed?

April is saying that math is cocky about his reads because he is conf town, which is 100% true and leads to bad play

[VP Baltar]

If April is scum, I'll cross that bridge when we get there. I don't think that's the case though, and I am not a fool for charisma

[VP Baltar]

i forgot that masons are given a list of alignments along with their role pm, mb

[VP Baltar]

Protective roles stay on Math or else, btw.

Lol nah dawg

[VP Baltar]

Ok, so I spent a lot of time overnight reviewing the Galron wagon, the counter push onto me, and Malcom's elimination yesterday. I have shared this case with my hood already. Nero has called it garbage.

Given that both my wagon and Malcom's wagon were two town being pushed, I think the chaos of the Galron wagon and Yeet soft are highly likely to have thrown scum into a bit of confusion when they had a comfortable position of two town being run up.

I'm still thinking this through, so bear with me if this gets a little long winded. I'll put a tl;dr at the end.

The big takeaway here is that I think the scum team is probably Nero/Frogster/Dragons/????

---

Phase 1: Galron wagon into Yeet soft

So this all starts around 4433 when fire off hand suggests a "flash wagon" on glaron. Math picks this up and runs with it 4440. This arises when Galron comes in and drops a vote on Malcom with little explanation, tipping the weight of the day toward Malcom. I would call these reasonable responses to Galron's vote.

We then get a series of votes from Cape, fire, tenebros and Enchant. 4442444444464447

I then join the Galron wagon because I wasn't super satisfied with the malcom wagon. 4457

Meanwhile, Nero is calling galron scum, but not willing to join the wagon for some reason. 44534455[pos]4456[/post]4462

Yeet starts his soft in 4470 by saying "absolutely not on Galron." Nero pushes back. I pick up on the soft at the top of page 180, when Yeet says again he is "*staunchly opposed*" to Galron. 4475 The weirdness of the language was a dead giveaway that Yeet had some kind of info pointing to Galron town. We can see now from the NK that I was right.

I unvote in 4478, and we firmly enter Phase 2 of this wagon, which I'll call the scramble.

----

Phase 2: The scramble

There is a lot of Yeet and myself trying to guide people gently away from the Galron wagon at this point without being anymore explicit than Yeet already has been.

Unfortunately, Math doesn't know what is going on and starts promoting a wild ass theory that Galron and me are scum together. 4499 This is key because the scum had been wanting me dead yesterday and this gives them the cover of a mason to come back at me. From my perspective, scum completely bungle this next part, however.

question I have during this time:

fire, can you tell me which post specifically you figured out that Yeet was softing?

Back to my main thoughts: DV comes in post 4525 to pump up Math. I'm very suspicious of people doing this at this time because I don't believe the scum team had picked up on the soft yet, and Math's theory is potentially pushing a new town lim, leaving Malcom/VP for a tasty D3 dueling town wagon again. It's a dream scum scenario.

Nero starts to fight with Yeet a little bit. I perceive this as Nero getting annoyed at the galron interference coming from yeet that Nero!scum doesn't quite understand yet. 452945314532

Nero says he'd like to vote Galron over Malcom, even though Nero has supported Malom wagon a bit in the past. 4550 Weirdly in this post, he says he wants to see where Frogster, DV, Titus, and dragons put their votes. DV has already said he's not leaving me. Titus also voted me. That leaves Nero signaling Frogster and Dragons.

Nero votes galron in 4588, even though he doesn't really give much reason and in his next post, 4599, he says "there's still enough votes to vote Malcolm out."

We get a bunch of April arguing against the Galron lim, and Math pushing his very bad theory, and then this is where the day truly gets interesting because Frogster returns.

In post 4623 Frog says he thinks "Galron is most likely to flip scum" out of the counterwagons to me. He hedges a bit saying Galron is a frequent miselim target, but clearly frog is expressing support for Math's point of view here. Again, I don't think scum have picked up on Yeet's softs yet, but the softs are becoming increasingly urgent at this point.

Dragons then appears in 4626 with a mostly naked vote, stating "this is better than Malcom". Yeet rightfully calls this out as scummy.

Fire starts to consider the softs in 4638 and unvotes.

THIS IS WHERE IT STARTS TO SLIP AWAY AS AN EASY DAY FOR SCUM

Frogster quotes Dragons' vote on Galron and says it is better than a malcom lim. 4640 Then he pumps up Math's dumb take again that VP and Yeet are the scum team trying to save Galron.

Nero says in 4642 that even if Gal is town, it's no big deal if they are limmed.

Frogster in 4645 again pumps up math and says that "VP Galron Yeet (April)" is a good solve.

(This point is key in a bit)

Yeet says in 4651 that he is willing to put his slot on the line that Galron is town. I confirmed overnight in the hood that this is the post that tips Nero off that Yeet is softing.

Cape calls yeet town, and dragons shades that in 4655. Frogster backs up dragons's shade in 4662. I believe this is scum trying to pull back the galron lim from the brink by looking for a final couple votes they can sway to power galron from E-2 to a lim.

This is their fatal error.

Nero is the first person to publicly out Yeet's soft in 4665. I pressed him on this overnight and he did not have any explanation on the protown motivation for doing this. He said basically it was obvious scum probably knew...which isn't an answer to make it a point of public discussion. This is most likely a rolefishing attempt.

Math says he doesn't believe Yeet has an actual innocent in 4668, which probably gives scum some hope that they can still get this done with Math for cover.

Nero comes in again at 4670 to call Gal scummy even though he knows about the Yeet soft. Frogster also reinforces this with 4672, but then frogster votes me in 4674.

Dragons tries to discredit Cape's townread of Yeet again in 4687. Math, being big brain, also joins in this discredit of yeet in 4689. Cape maybe shows some signs of uncertainty in 4691, and I think this is another fundamental point where the scum misread the table, thinking they still have a shot at galron.

Frogster now votes galron to E-1 in 4699. Two things worth pointing out in this post: Frogster says he is voting Galron because my wagon is not going to happen. And, he once again reinforces' Math's worldview that I must be scum with Galron.

It's also worth noting here that if my read is correct on Nero/Frog/Dragons, Frogster's vote onto Galron would put the three of them back-to-back-to-back on that wagon. A town flip of Galron is a potential death sentence to three out of four scum members who kind of have shitty votes onto the wagon.

Frog joins in on the effort to sway Cape away from a townread on Yeet in 4708. They need a hammer here bad. This is where we get into phase 3

----

Phase 3: Damage control

It's my firm belief that these three realized they got in too deep here. I was actively bringing fire around to understanding Yeet is probably town here who has good reason to believe Galron is town. Fire has been a main person aligned with Nero/frog/tenebros against me. This is extremely bad for scum if I'm starting to have better dialogue with fire.

At the same time, Cape is not turning on Yeet. The number of people left to actually hammer Galron at this point is like...Titus. And she is not super keyed into the game yet/thinks Math is pretty far off base.

Dragons unvotes Galron in 4711 "just for a sec."

Titus then comes in 4714 and votes Malcom, which is essentially a death sentence for the Galron wagon.

Frogster next unvotes Galron in 4728. Keep in mind, frogster said he voted Galron in the first place because my wagon was no longer viable and because he didn't want to lim Malcom. Well, why unvote then? Nothing has fundamentally changed about my wagon at this point. It is not anymore viable than it was when he voted. There is only something like 20 minutes that pass between these votes.

The only thing that has changed is that the galron!town miselim ship has sailed because of Titus' vote.

Nero comes in right after in 4729 to say "yeet doesn't have an inno on gal." Another stupid miscalculation, probably meant to sway cape or Titus, but it's a misread of the game state. Scum are flailing here and unsure what to do.

Frogster calls galron "limbait" in post 4740...but who is using him as limbait? He boosted Math's idea just earlier that galron and VP were scum together, with Yeet and April as possible accomplices. This is

MINUTES AGO.

It makes no sense, unless you look at this as a failed push on galron that has gone very wrong.

Frogster in 4758 is making a case that my posts indicate Galron town...which does not make any sense. Read the posts he links. Also, I was calling Galron probably town based on Yeet. What is frogster even trying to say here? I don't know what kind of moon logic frogster is using, other than to try to make it look like there is an actual case against me now that the Galron push has shit the bed.

Then we get the usual crowd of Tene and Nero chiming in that I'm obviously the best lim for the day. 47604771

Dragons naked votes me in this cluster fuck as well. 4766

Frog votes me again in 4770 even though he was already voting me. Was this to make it seem like more votes were coming my way than actually were? I cannot truly believe he wouldn't remember voting me just a few posts prior. This is theater.

----------------

TL;DR

- Nero/dragons/Frogster all tried to use Math as cover to power through a Galron wagon yesterday, but misread the game state by missing Yeet's soft and by thinking they could still power the miselim through even after the soft was outted. I questioned Nero about his play around the soft overnight and he did not have logical explanations for his play and was continuing to state it is clearly because the scum team is VP-Yeet-Galron-????

Frogster should be the lim priority because even if you want to say I'm reaching by claiming these three are scum buddies, there are a lot of inconsistencies in Frogster's positions around Galron that don't make any sense with what he is saying his positions are over a very short period of time.

VOTE: Frogster

[VP Baltar]

sorry some of those numbers are jumbled together, I should have put more spaces. Also, sorry if any typos or grammar things are confusing. Happy to clarify. I wrote this up this morning while working. Might be a few things I was speeding through.

[VP Baltar]

ok so ive been thinking about it and i can see a world where VP is town or where VP is maf, and i can see a world where April is town or where April is maf, but i can't really see any world where titus is town

VOTE: Titus

Read my case on Frogster et al please. I would like your feedback on where you think I'm wrong or stretching too far.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: April

try to move me off this i dare you

Why?

[VP Baltar]

I don't see why scum should give so much of a shit whether they got galron through or not in your world,

This is directly addressed in the case.

Limming galron yesterday would have left today as VP vs Malcom, and no one has to take responsibility for the galron miselim because it was Maths wagon.

That part is pretty simple.

I also think it's pretty disingenuous to call it a conspiracy when I brought all the receipts to check yourself. You can think it's wrong, but who is scum then? You've basically lost footing to ride the VP scum skate by anymore, so who is actually scum here?

[VP Baltar]

What about your wagon VPB? Are you saying that Math's case on me allowed scum to shift the focus? There's something I'm not getting here.

No no. I'm saying Math gave them a shot at you. Scum have been trying to lim me since D1/early D2 and for some stupid reason decided to go all in on me if I'm right about Nero and Frog.

I think after your wagon fell apart, scum switched back to me because I am more loud and annoying than Malcom was. I'm an easier push for them. (Or was, I think the yeet flip backs up what I'm saying, so idk if they can actually lim me now)

[VP Baltar]

do you think anyone should be held responsible for the Malcolm wagon?

Sure, there is probably a scum on there. We are limming frogster today though.

[VP Baltar]

on vp's case:

- 4525 doesn't feel like pumping up math it's just fluff responding to his mean girls gif
- disagree that scum hadn't picked up on the soft. would actually be shocked if they hadn't noticed early. i wasn't sure on it partly bc i thought yeet and galron were both scummy. maf know their alignments and so would notice much more easily.
- i can see your read of it ig but eh i don't really agree with the narrative. I think it's relying too much on the assumption that maf didn't notice until way later than i would expect them to. frog could def be scum pretending he didn't notice. nero, maybe, but i don't think he behaved that scummy here. dragons looked genuine to me.
- who do you think would be maf if the team did notice the soft early? (hint: every possible team includes titus)

Ok, on the DV thing. I don't know my meam girls meme. I'll take your word for it.

On scum picking up on the tell, I can only go by what I see in the thread. You are making the assumption that scum definitely saw Yeet's obstinance as a tell. Maybe, but I'm not sold on it because of the way the galron wagon continued to push forward for a good bit after that. If they saw it and believed it, then that whole push is town? I'm highly skeptical of that.

If they did notice early, we are probably looking at April and Titus in the maf, plus IDK who.

[VP Baltar]

VP, I need a bit to review what you wrote.

Not a problem. It is a lot. I hate big cases like that, but it really stuck out in my notes, so I felt like this is a time I should wrote out all my thoughts.

[VP Baltar]

not necessarily, i think one scum could have gone for the play of pretending they didn't notice it. my pick for that would probably be cape but frog is also possible

I feel like Nero's play is much shadier than Cape. He was kind of pushing all the wagons as possibilities D2.

Look at him today, he is trying to shade people on the Malcom wagon, even though he spent good chunks of yesterday promoting it. It's the same exact thing he did with Wu, except somehow even mote naked this time. He doesn't have a coherent suspect or team theory all game.

Pedit - I think cape should answer your Q for sure.

[VP Baltar]

However, I don't expect all three of Nero/Frogster/Dragons to be scum. All three scum going in on an agency capture move is highly unlikely.

Sure, I'm kind of shooting the moon here I'm sure. In terms of confidence, I'd probably go Frogster>>>>Nero>>>>>>>>>Dragons.

I do feel good that frogster did not believe what he was doing around that wagon.

And I do think at least some scum were hyping Math because when he gets tilted it takes up a lot of oxygen.

[VP Baltar]

wait also cape obv must have realized before the flip bc vp was talking about it in the hood

???

He definitely knew overnight because I was talking about it a good amount

[VP Baltar]

The biggest thing we need to do today is have the town find each other and block up. We can't really afford to miss today.

[VP Baltar]

Can we talk Eyes for a sec?

So Eyes in 3750 they "are willing to give Malcolm a try" and they will unvote if they don't want them. Okay? In a list they gave PRIOR to voting Malcolm (3372), Eyes puts Malcolm as almost town.

Eyes was not pushing Malcolm earlier, they were pushing April... until 3740.

The most logical progression from voting April according to 3372 for Eyes to do is not to go to Malcolm, but to go to their... actual scum leans? Like tene and Frog right?

Malcom actually saw this in 3762 and Eyes' answer to this is

really

weak 4013, just being like, "well I moved you to unsure because I merged the almost town into my nulls" which sounds like "haha I must go consensus instead of actually pushing who I feel are mafia" to me .

Eyes never unvotes Malcolm from here even though there was a good amount of time between this and the end of the day.

VOTE: Eyes without a face

Boy I sure prefer this then killing April of all people

I can maybe get behind this. Need to think on it.

[VP Baltar]

Also, your argument that I was pushing Malcolm is bullshit.

Your iso is full of you saying Malcom is a good possible lim, until it is happening, then you want nothing to do with it

[VP Baltar]

Math just hammer Malcolm. If he's town we get to go ape shit on his voters and if he's scum then we are closer to our wincon.

I still don't understand how the Malcolm wagon got to the point it did.

scum sheeping Boon was my original thought. But Malcolm hasn't done the greatest job being all hesitant to vote and being wary about hammering or shit.

part of me does just want a Malcolm flip so if he flips town like I think he will we can just like kill everyone on it b/c I bet its chock full of scum

but I think Malcolm is doing a piss poor job of making me not want to vote him b/c every time he posts but doesn't vote and talks about how wary he is just makes me not particularly care if he lives or dies.

[VP Baltar]

I'm on my phone and can't even do a proper ctrl+f.

Nero is full of shit this whole game.

[VP Baltar]

Also, your argument that I was pushing Malcolm is bullshit.

Your iso is full of you saying Malcom is a good possible lim, until it is happening, then you want nothing to do with it

I don't really remember that. I tell Math to hammer towards the end so we can finally move on and vote you and the other Malcolm voters. Meanwhile, you were sitting on what you thought was a town flip so...

I just quoted you at least 4 instances of you tacitly supporting the Malcom lim. Don't tell me all the scum are on it when you backed it without voting.

And yep, I'm not going to lim myself when I can see my green role PM. How is this even an argument you're making????

[VP Baltar]

I'm on my phone and can't even do a proper ctrl+f.

Nero is full of shit this whole game.

then push me you fucking wus. You won't do it b/c you know I'm not the path of least resistance. Also, your examples in 4931 aren't pushing a Malcolm wagon.

Let me guess frog is a mafia PR and you're a goon.

[VP Baltar]

The Card Czar shuffles all of the answers and shares each card combination with the group. For full effect, the Card Czar should usually re-read the Black Card before presenting each answer. The Card Czar then picks a favorite, and whoever played that answer keeps the Black Card as one Awesome Point. After the round, a new player becomes the Card Czar and everyone draws back up to ten White Cards.

---

Official Votecount 2.9

VP Baltar (6): Scorpious, tenebrousluminary, Nero Cain, Frogsterking, MathBlade, DeasVail

[E-3]

MalcolmTucker (4): April Ludgate, Eyes without a face, Yeet, fireisredsir
tenebrousluminary (1): MalcolmTucker
Enchant (1): skitter30
skitter30 (1): Enchant
Cape90 (1): Datisi
April Ludgate (1): Save the Dragons
fireisredsir (1): VP Baltar

Not Voting (1): Cape90

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to achieve an elimination.

Day 2 will end in (expired on 2022-03-16 09:20:00).

click here for joined mod iso.

I also just want to point out that Malcolm was pushing tene around the time that Eyes was voting Malcolm.

You know, Malcolm pushing a supposed scumlean on Eyes' list of reads

Eyes, I would like a response to this

[VP Baltar]

uhhh VP 2 of your 4 examples are just Nero saying "let's kill the scum on the malc wagon"

that proves his point not yours

Nah nah, you got to read deeper. He is saying all of thise he is fine with the Malcom flip. My point is that he is nudging things along without committing his own vote, and then coming in later and saying "I can't believe you limmed town!"

It's classic scum non commitment.


Plus I'm sure those are not even great examples. That's just me casually looking at his ISO

[VP Baltar]

why is everyone ignoring that psychologists get negative results on people who have already killed and therefore do not necessarily imply that there is a traitor

i wouldn't be THAT surprised to see a traitor but eh

I hear you. So you are saying you want to still lim galron?

[VP Baltar]

Plus I'm sure those are not even great examples. That's just me casually looking at his ISO

they are very not great examples and you cannot say "look i proved this!" without having great examples. if you come back later with great examples then ill be more interested in what you have to say

Well, I'm not saying they are terrible examples either. Open his iso and look at the way he talks about Malcom if you want. It's not hard to find. I have some posts marked in NY notes, but I'm off my computer for the night. Definitely will have to be tomorrow before I go fetch that.

[VP Baltar]

Well, I'm not saying they are terrible examples either. Open his iso and look at the way he talks about Malcom if you want. It's not hard to find. I have some posts marked in NY notes, but I'm off my computer for the night. Definitely will have to be tomorrow before I go fetch that.

very excited to see your better examples!! i did look through his ISO, obviously, and your not great ones are the closest that i could find to support the narrative that you're pushing. he p consistently liked the malc wagon the least out of all the leading wagons, and consistently thought that scum were pushing it

I'm not saying it was his stated preferred wagon. I don't think you're exactly getting what I'm saying here, and I'm sure that's on me. The point is him being OK with it without backing it. I'm not sure what you think I'm saying.

[VP Baltar]

I’m totally fine dying today.

I’m VT.

If anyone thinks I’m scum who would actively kill Yeet, my number 1 supporter, lol.

I don't get this post at all

[VP Baltar]

So while I’ll fight for my defense, if I use some empathy for other townies, I can’t disagree that I’m not a good fade.

I actually find it weirder you are doing this whole woe is me thing. Feels like acting.

I don't think anyone with sway is out here pushing you rn. I would appreciate if you just help me solve the game.

[VP Baltar]

nah that's not what you said. you said he was promoting and pushing and supporting it.

He was supporting it! It's called tacit support. Which is exactly what I said. I find this semantics arguments with you to be the exact thing that was driving me up the wall about you before.

You are looking to score semantics points instead of looking at scum motivations to take ACTIONS. Actions are how you catch scum. This isn't debate class. This is murder.

[VP Baltar]

. i see the opposite. malc wagon is never his favorite, and near the end of day is when he's most vocally okay with it bc he thinks scum pushed it and he wants to catch them. so... the opposite of what you said.

No, it's not the opposite. The point is that Nero does things to support wagons, implicitly or explicitly, doesn't actually vote there, and then claims all the scum are on those wagons. Telling other people to flip Malcom because he thinks scum are on it is encouraging a wagon. It's just doing so without taking any risk.

Let me put this a different way to you to maybe open your mind a little bit: what has Nero actually done this game apart from claim I'm scum despite all counter evidence? Who is he seriously pushing? Who is he willing to risk his reputation on the flip of? If the answer is no one, that should be a warning sign to you. This is what I mean about actions.

[VP Baltar]

It's suspicious that the neighborhood is even still in use given how much everyone in it hates each other.

I love everyone, not my fault Nero rolled scum.

[VP Baltar]

Who is he willing to risk his reputation on the flip of? If the answer is no one

So you are no one?

I offered to 1v1 today but you are scared to do so.

Yeah man, you're proving my point. Your play is 1-dimensional. You're using me as a crutch because it is safe. You're not scumhunting.

[VP Baltar]

I wonder if scum will even lose a member this game. It feels unlikely.

Hey, get it together. We can do this. Like I said, all we need to do as town is find each other today and block up. There's a lot of distrust between town this game, and I think that is what has led between such hard divisions.

It's a bummer that yeet died because I was syncing up with him yesterday, but I am willing to take some risks on town reads today to get us out of this mess.

Right now, I think fire, cape, April, Titus are all probably town. You might be as well. Math obviously, but I doubt he is going to come around and be useful today. We can PoE scum here if we are smart.

[VP Baltar]

I'm still catching up, but one thing I want to address to math (and I know this is pointless given the audience, but anyhow) is the traitor thing.

Yes, that role PM says that. It doesn't guarantee a traitor in the setup. Maybe it is true, but that is almost always a thing you'd consider late game. We don't have evidence yet really. And I think fire has also talked about the role PM. From my perspective, the odds that Yeet hit a traitor or the person who performed the N1 kill are much lower than the odds that galron is just town here. Not saying he can't be those things, but playing odds is important in mafia, and that's how I would think about it.

[VP Baltar]

If Galron was scum, then killing yeet leaves other PRs alive and suggests Galron is town because scum only shoot yeet to fear his results.

This is a good point by Titus I think. Scum had to shoot yeet for fear of getting caught. If Galron was scum, that probably doesn't happen. Or at least is less likely to happen.

[VP Baltar]

As a Mason you do get more say than the rest of us but that does not make you king.

You’re right I do get more say
And that has been fucking ignored all game

Lol ok.

[VP Baltar]

Math, people are ignoring you because your solve is hare-brained and full of spec and then you call people scum for not agreeing with you.

I'm in the same boat as you that I can't really get sway toward my solve, but you can't burn every bridge and just insist you're right because you are a mason.

If you want to have an honest conversation, I'm here, but I will largely ignore you if this is going to be your approach to the game. There have been several listed reasons why galron is more likely town than scum. There have been stated reasons why I'm more likely town than scum. Yeet and HEM, two confirmed towns, both seemed to be town reading me at their time of death, further making it unlikely someone like me would want them dead.

Try to work with people here please. I don't think your solve or plan to get there is anywhere remotely near correct.

[VP Baltar]

It's like shoting with rubber bullets.

So, who we killing today?

Who did you target?

[VP Baltar]

I don't remember Yeet really claiming anything.

Yeet softed info on galron pointing to town, and then he flipped town investigative.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: eyes

For the town bloc power to turn this thing around.

[VP Baltar]

It's like shoting with rubber bullets.

So, who we killing today?

Who did you target?

Galron.

Sigh. I am struggling to see how you're town.

[VP Baltar]

One thing that I did think about overnight is I would think we would have a protective if a scum RB and a vig are in play. We clearly do not (or that person has a lot of explaining to do). I don't really want to do anything with this thought right now, but making it public so someone can explain to me why I'm wrong there.

[VP Baltar]

It's suspicious that the neighborhood is even still in use given how much everyone in it hates each other.

I wouldn't say people hate each other in there. Nero and VPB were sussing each other hard but it wasn't until recently that Baltar actually called Nero scum while Nero hasn't been shy about it.

This is accurate from my pov. I think I've tried to give Nero many chances to prove his towniness after he very clearly went on the offensive in the neighborhood D1 by outting it publicly and attacking myself (conf town to me) and galron (likely town based on yeet) with no real evidence other than setup speculation. I gave him the benefit of the doubt he was just bad town, but now with the yeet info and cape looking more town, it is hard for me to conclude anything but Nero is scum.

[VP Baltar]

VP you're feeling kinda slimy here tbh i don't think you belong in the townbloc

Feelings are not scumhunting, friend. I get scum read as town for "feelings" all the time. I pointed this out D1 and had Datisi independetly verify that as someone who has played with me a lot. It is because I write in complete sentences and I tend to have a viewpoint. These are NAI.

I would like to work with you, but trust is a two way street. Ask anybody here who has been around the block a few times, town blocing is the way to win today.

[VP Baltar]

VP's PoE to victory:

Town to probably town:

VP Baltar
MathBlade
Galron
fireisredsir
Titus
April Ludgate
Cape90

Scum are almost all here:

Frogsterking
Save The Dragons
Nero Cain
Eyes without a face

Get out of my dreams and into my car (aka, work a little bit to prove you are town if you're in this pool):

DeasVail
Enchant
tenebrousluminary
Scorpious

[VP Baltar]

you know who the absolute best targets are to try to drive a wedge in town and sow distrust? frog and nero.

You know I called Frog scum yesterday, right? People were just too far up their own asses to listen. Maybe today, you will listen. Guess who wanted to lim Yeet? Guess who had unexplainable flops on and off Galron? Guess who hasn't been scumhunting at all this game and was so timid with his vote D1? You getting the picture of Frog scum yet?

I don't expect you to follow me, but don't act like my reads are out of nowhere flips to assuage you. You don't even factor in my reads. You're just town by PoE primarily, so I'm done fighting with you.

[VP Baltar]

when i was unenthused you dropped that and started pushing elsewhere.

You are not the center of my universe. I would love to have your help, but if you aren't going to help, then I can look elsewhere. I trust cape is town as much as I trust you are town, so why would I not back him up in his pressure?

[VP Baltar]

VP's PoE to victory:

Town to probably town:

VP Baltar
MathBlade
Galron
fireisredsir
Titus
April Ludgate
Cape90

Scum are almost all here:

Frogsterking
Save The Dragons
Nero Cain
Eyes without a face

Get out of my dreams and into my car (aka, work a little bit to prove you are town if you're in this pool):

DeasVail
Enchant
tenebrousluminary
Scorpious

Getting some of these nulls sorted is probably essential because Mathblade is going to be useless until we get a scum flip in my lim pool and he is shown he needs to adjust his viewpoint unfortunately. Getting to 8 votes in a proper place is going to be challenging with Math's obstinance.

[VP Baltar]

VP's PoE to victory:

Town to probably town:

VP Baltar
MathBlade
Galron
fireisredsir
Titus
April Ludgate
Cape90

Scum are almost all here:

Frogsterking
Save The Dragons
Nero Cain
Eyes without a face

Get out of my dreams and into my car (aka, work a little bit to prove you are town if you're in this pool):

DeasVail
Enchant
tenebrousluminary
Scorpious

I dislike this.

You also tried to shoot a likely town clear last night.

[VP Baltar]

allegedly

[VP Baltar]

What Cape has written leans me town there.

Can I get some specifics? What town pings for you?

[VP Baltar]

My concern, although feel free to tell me if I'm off base VP/April, is those claimed shots are really bad and make me doubt Enchant town.

There is a reason enchant is in my null pile. It is semi weird scum are RBing that slot when their reads are bad. Letting a bad shot fly at a townie is +scum win con.

Not where I would want to lim today, but enchant doesn't get a town pass and may even need to be limmed later.

[VP Baltar]

I didn't see any clear, and so didn't Math.

If you're town, you need to stop sleeping Math. It is +scum to be pumping him up rn, as evidenced by his terrible yeet and galron reads....which I pointed out in my case on the likely scum team.

[VP Baltar]

Like Math's current proposition is that Nero VP and Galron are scum together? They outed their scum PT as a hood D1 and that the result on Galron is irrelevant and Nero and VP came out swinging at each other despite hard winning?

no, that is not his proposition. he thinks it's titus/VP/galron/April

And yesterday it was VP/galron/yeet. His reads are terrible and he is being stubborn.

I do trust math to come around eventually, but he very obviously needs to be sidelined until he does.

[VP Baltar]

VP has accused me of being scum in the main thread at least twice. First, he was pushing a Nero/Wu team and then he was saying that scum in the hood was me or skitter.

He's sorta backed off now and is just calling me a VI.

VP is this true like at all?

That seems mostly accurate. I had scum pings on the way Nero handled Wu on D1, then I reviewed overnight and was suss on your hammer, we fought it out and I ended up town reading you after that fight. That left me with either Nero or galron is likely scum, hence my vote on galron. I sort of felt like Nero was TSTBS, hence why i called him a VI. Then yeet soft cleared galron and here we are today. Nero almost certainly has to be scum.

[VP Baltar]

then vote me?

You most likely want a 1v1 to shit up the thread, and because it gives you another shot at me that scum bungled yesterday. I think it is also highly likely you're worried about a scum PR getting limmed and you're probably a goon. I don't generally do things scum ask me to do.

If town wants to go down this road, I will, but I think frogster is more likely to be a scum PR.

[VP Baltar]

Do you feel Nero is a better lim today than eyes? You voted eyes for the townblock which doesn't tell me your reads? My game read suggests town are being FoSed for their reads and/or lurking. Gamestate means I have to entertain being wrong.

I want frogster today. Nero is acceptable. Eyes is acceptable.

[VP Baltar]

kinda rings hollow when you dropped your frog vote at the drop of a nickel to join a much easier eyes wagon

Lemme just get this cleared up, so you understand your place: you are not pooky. You aren't as good at this game as pooky. You can't provoke people like pooky. And you aren't going to get me riled up in a shit post fest. So stop trying to be the dollar general version of pooky.

You've been trying all game, and it's the weakest play I've seen in a long time. I'd rather you just stop clogging the thread with trash posts if this is the best you can do.

[VP Baltar]

then why have you killed more town then I have this game?

You aren't scumhunting. Stated already, you aren't putting your vote out there.

What we know is you have gone after town, then backed off and try to shade people on the wagon.

You camp a vote on me because it is a safe space for you. I gave you a chance to flip me yesterday and look like shit. You couldn't even get that to happen when I was showing you my belly.

Why are you so ineffective at getting a wagon over if you're so town?

I've pointed out plenty of scummy behavior by you around the galron-yeet stuff and you have literally no response to it.

You're not taking any risks, so of course you have little to no dirt on your hands. You aren't pushing any lims for real.

[VP Baltar]

He said I scumread Yeet. I realized end of day Yeet was bad town

So....you did scum read yeet and then changed your mind.

Have some humility.

[VP Baltar]

He said I scumread Yeet. I realized end of day Yeet was bad town

So....you did scum read yeet and then changed your mind.

Have some humility.

Yes I can change my mind.

What’s your point here?

I do have humility I am frustrated with you consistently lying about what I am saying when it’s verifiable you are

No, what I said is accurate then. You scum read Yeet galron and myself for part of the day.

I believe you when you say you adjusted your yeet read in thos last 15 hours of D1. Doesn't change the fact you made a whole deal out of his soft and added to the likelihood he got killed last night instead of getting us another result.

Therefore, what I said is not a "lie" or even in the realm of inaccurate.

I've explained why the odds are in favor of your galron read being wrong too. But the response is to say I must be scum protecting galron.

I'm really not trying to be disrespectful here, but you've been pocketed by scum for awhile now and I can't really fix that until I get a scum flip. It is a reality of the way you tend to tunnel in mafia.

[VP Baltar]

vp keeps trying to claim town cred for things that he should know he does not at all deserve town cred for and idk why he would do that as town

What are these things?

[VP Baltar]

I still think Galron is scum based on prior history

I'm not opposed to hearing this meta read, but like, is this 100% accurate?

We know for a fact yeet risked his neck on this. I could see that very early. I'm not expecting you to side with me completely, but I hope you can understand why I have skepticism about your reads when I think you got played yesterday.

[VP Baltar]

Combine that with Titus asking a supposedly inactive player a question in the main thread implies he might be active in the scum PT.

He is fairly inactive in the hood. I had to ask the mod to poke him overnight. He said he assumed he was dead in this game so didn't check. /shrug

[VP Baltar]

I am at like 80-95% sure he’s scum.

I mean, I'm willing to say I don't know. All I am basing this on is that I locked in with yeet yesterday. I am trying to find people I can trust to move this game forward in the right direction. It's pretty obvious that I don't think my lim is that direction.

I also think Titus is saying smart things about the game, undoubtedly because they align with my own reads. I think you should be wary of people sucking up to you is all I'm saying.

[VP Baltar]

Combine that with Titus asking a supposedly inactive player a question in the main thread implies he might be active in the scum PT.

He is fairly inactive in the hood. I had to ask the mod to poke him overnight. He said he assumed he was dead in this game so didn't check. /shrug

And as town wouldn’t Galron want to leave last reads or something?

I think he was saying he thought he got limmed and just didn't read.

[VP Baltar]

I hear a lot about Math being sucked up to but I do not see anyone actually doing it.

I linked to a bunch of times in my wall post.

[VP Baltar]

Combine that with Titus asking a supposedly inactive player a question in the main thread implies he might be active in the scum PT.

He is fairly inactive in the hood. I had to ask the mod to poke him overnight. He said he assumed he was dead in this game so didn't check. /shrug

And as town wouldn’t Galron want to leave last reads or something?

I think he was saying he thought he got limmed and just didn't read.

Is he doing anything now that he’s not dead?

A few things in the hood. Asked me what I wanted him to read etc.

He can talk to you about his activity though.

How many games do you have with galron? A lot?

[VP Baltar]

I also think Titus is saying smart things about the game, undoubtedly because they align with my own reads. I think you should be wary of people sucking up to you is all I'm saying.

Wouldn't this lead to you being wary of me?

Sure. But I also need to put some stock in my reads. The crowd pushing me is not the town bloc. I have to place my bets somewhere if I expect us to lim scum today.

[VP Baltar]

vp keeps trying to claim town cred for things that he should know he does not at all deserve town cred for and idk why he would do that as town

What are these things?

1) you noticing yeet's soft, drawing attention to it, and pushing people away from galron. it's playing the good townie in the same way that maf would, nothing about that is town indicative at all, and yet you have said a few times that it is evidence that you're town. the fact that you gave me town cred for backing off galron is also kinda sus tbh bc you should know better as town
2) you buddying up to yeet, him TRing you, and his death. none of those things make you more likely town
3) HEM's death. that was happening no matter what and he wasn't even TRing you according to math
4) acting like you're willing and planning to die and sacrifice yourself for the good of the town even when that isn't the trajectory of things

1) you are way too paranoid. Reading the game state correctly is +town. I can't help you if you are going to tinfoil.

2) yeah, it fucking does. If people had listened to me, we would have had better chances of another yeet result, however small.

3) I can only go by what's in thread. If HEM flipped EOD, that still doesn't matter. Scum!VP would still assume HEM was town reading me. That's the vibe I was getting.

4) yeah, bullshit. I was a major wagon much of the day. It's ridiculous for you to act like I was not in danger of getting yeeted. I'm catching votes without a true reason all game. Also, I never asked people to town read me for being willing to die yesterday. The closest to that I said was that when I flip green, follow my reads. You're projecting that on to me.

[VP Baltar]

Reading the game state correctly is +town.

why? scum has a better read of the gamestate than town like 95% of the time

In my experience, scum are actually not better at reading nuances in the game. They are paranoid and over value the wrong things as being dangerous to them. This is a flaw in my own scum play.

In this particular point, yes scum could potentially pick up on sorts faster, but to me that is also an experience/luck thing. I'm talking about something more complex here, and that is being able to read yeet as town there. While scum would know yeet is town, galron would still look like a viable lim at E-2. That is why scum were shading yeet's info and saying it was unreliable or that he could be scum. It is a misreading of how yeet played and tried to save galron without full claiming. Town players are much less likely to do that there because they could see yeet didn't really have scum motivation for how he was doing his softing. I get into this in detail in my opening post.

Your argument may be that I'm playing 5-D chess and wifoming you, but the more straightforward answer is just that I'm town who isn't terrible at this game.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Nero

Not sure if this is scum. I'm voting here for the wagonomics and work with VP.

Join me VP?

Sure. If we are going to 1v1 with me and him today, I guess let's do this thing. I don't think this is likely to hit a scum PR. that's going to be in the folks laying low/not mixing it up.

VOTE: nero

[VP Baltar]

i mean everyone had already picked up on it. Scum pushing Gal was too much work besides scum were the ones sitting safely on the Malcolm ML.

What was the protown motivation for making Yeet's role a point of public discussion? I asked you this overnight and you still never answered it.

[VP Baltar]

I need to reset somewhere unless all the town on VP are agency captured.

I think fire and tene are probably the most likely town there. Obviously Math is gone until he gets his way or a scum flip makes him realize he is wrong. Frogster will join my wagon whenever he shows up. (I am assuming he is avoiding the thread as scum ploy until scrutiny is sufficiently redirected onto the 1v1 that Nero wants because there are not actual answers to the way he played around glaron yesterday).

The level of agency capture needed to make my wagon a perpetual issue is probably smaller than you think. It's been the same group of people confbiasing since day 1 or so. The problem is that my play is pretty obvious town over time to people reading the game, so the wagon can't get up above six typically.

[VP Baltar]

Your very stubborn in my eyes and can mask that to push town.

your boi over there VP has flipped 2 town, I haven't. Why do you think VP is town?

why do you keep acting like Malcom was my wagon?

Also, you haven't flipped anyone. That's not +town. It shows TMI.

[VP Baltar]

Sigh....I kind of like fua for this exchange with fire.

Also I think Malcom is town.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: HEM

Maybe the best approach here is dueling HEM and Wu wagons since that seems to be a divide that is shaping up and I could see a world where either flips scum.

This wasn't even remotely close to EOD or where our reads were at on each other at that point. What is this supposed to prove in your eyes?

[VP Baltar]

Calling someone scum and pushing them are two different things.

This is also 2000 posts later.

Yep, I held powder until I felt confident I had found the scum in the hood. Why does that make me scum? Like, you're in this Nero world that first movers in the hood are somehow +town, but I don't think that makes any sense. Cape didn't really push limming in the hood, but thinks there is prob scum in there. Does that make him scum as well? Unlikely.

I can find people's play scummy and not be certain on their alignment, especially when it is a person who has the personality of a tween and calls people "wus". I'm not going to engage with that kind of idiocy unless I am sure on my read.

[VP Baltar]

Sigh....I kind of like fua for this exchange with fire.

Also I think Malcom is town.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: HEM

Maybe the best approach here is dueling HEM and Wu wagons since that seems to be a divide that is shaping up and I could see a world where either flips scum.

This wasn't even remotely close to EOD or where our reads were at on each other at that point. What is this supposed to prove in your eyes?

That you have been continually and consistently pushing town all game.

Anyone who doesn’t agree is “bad” or “wrong”.

k.

[VP Baltar]

I had none

Could have stopped typing here because that's the point.

[VP Baltar]

whats the protown motivation of sitting on a wagon that you thought was going to flip town?

I know my role PM is green. I did not know Malcom's. I also gained info about where April is pushing.

I already answered this question over night in the hood and I believe once in the thread. Why do you keep asking it other than to repeat the same talking points you've already been dismantled on?

[VP Baltar]

I had none

Could have stopped typing here because that's the point.

Damn more dodging the question wow

You mean the question I just replied to? the one he has been answered on multiple times?

[VP Baltar]

vp brought more attention to the yeet soft than nero

Jesus fucking christ, you do not believe this do you?

I unvoted and pushed elsewhere. Nero literally says "yeet doesn't have an inno!"

How is what you're saying remotely true?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: VP Baltar E-2

people thinking this is town.


I'm signing off for a bit to get some work done. This is probably the worst town I have played with in a long ass time, and it is very annoying to say the least. I can handle a few amateurs, but a large group of townies acting like they had a frontal lobotomy because they are too lazy to read the game is when I need to take a break. I'll come back later when I'm less annoyed because I don't want to say something mean to someone.

Sorry, Titus. I don't have the willpower to argue with your brother if he's just going to get played day after day by the scum because of his enormous ego.


pedit- Nero's scum strat is spam the thread and repeat lies until people like Math start repeating them for him. The idea that I was some major component of the Malcom lim is absolutely absurd. I stated pretty explicitly in thread I didn't think that wagon was likely to hit scum and I was putting my vote there to back April/yeet had info clearing glaron. I'm also not going to self vote. I've given you all tangible reasons to see that Nero is scum. He hasn't done anything of substance all game, he outted a town PR, he tried to lim a townie that was soft cleared by said town PR, he had zero response to any of this, he admits he had no protown motivation in out the PR, he pushes people without committing a vote. How many more ACTION BASED reasons do you need to see Nero is scum? Cape, who is actually in the fucking hood, understands. Titus, who is a much more capable player than most, understands. Play better town. That's all I'm saying! I'll be back later.

[VP Baltar]

Fire tene and myself surely all can’t be “agency captured”.

And yet!

[VP Baltar]

vp brought more attention to the yeet soft than nero

Jesus fucking christ, you do not believe this do you?

I unvoted and pushed elsewhere. Nero literally says "yeet doesn't have an inno!"

How is what you're saying remotely true?

4585, 4617, 4625, 4643 all draw attention. what's the town motivation for posting those, unless you just believe the mafia team is completely incompetent? if you're town, maf 1000% notice those posts, and 10000% know about the soft because of them if they didn't already. all of those posts just look like dropping ""subtle"" hints to indicate you noticed bc you want to be sure it's on record. idk why town wouldn't be more careful. i noticed and said nothing bc i didn't want to tip anyone off and because i wasn't sure. you said things bc you didn't care about tipping anyone off and because you were sure bc you knew alignments already.

by the time nero said anything it was already p much out in the open

I had no choice but to try to do something. Math was still pushing there because he clearly hadn't noticed. Yeet was becoming increasingly desperate and needed some kind of support.

It was not out in the open by the time Nero claimed because no one was talking about it or changing course of action because of it. So which is it?

You're trying to have it both ways. You're trying to say it was both so obvious that everyone knew, and yet Math and all the people pushing galron clearly didn't fucking get it because they were pushing there. What was Yeet or myself supposed to do there? Let math power through the galron wagon?

Nero is the one who put the role into public discussion and you can't change that fact, so -- pretty please -- pull your head out of your ass and think about what you're saying.

[VP Baltar]

large group of townies acting like they had a frontal lobotomy

because they are too lazy to read the game is when I need to take a break. I'll come back later when I'm less annoyed because

I don't want to say something mean

to someone.

yeah, exactly. I'm trying to cut myself off here and apologies.

[VP Baltar]

I want to talk about Dease a little bit before D3 ends

Respond to my post about you and why you joined and abandoned the galron wagon.

[VP Baltar]

Lol I'm so mad and can't stop checking the thread. Bad, VP.

[VP Baltar]

What was Yeet or myself supposed to do there? Let math power through the galron wagon?

you literally said in one of the posts i linked that you thought that was the better option. you can't have it both ways

Yeah, after I tried to point it out to math repeatedly without calling it out explicitly. You're not even making sense anymore.

[VP Baltar]

It's actually pretty transparent why I moved my votes EoD. It does take some creativity to interpret my reason for leaving the Galron wagon in any other way.

Nope. You said you moved to galron because my wagon was not viable? Nothing changed about the viability of my wagon when you switched back.

I would like you to at least admit you switched because you didn't think galron was going to happen there. It is extremely obvious from the timing.

I would also like you to tell me who was using galron as limbait.

[VP Baltar]

I thought Yeet lied about softs up until now when I saw their flip.

So you thought galron was scum still yesterday when he was at e-1 and you unvoted?

[VP Baltar]

I thought Yeet lied about softs up until now when I saw their flip. My change of vote EoD off of Galron was because I read your iso and saw that you read flipped onto him making me think he was town.

I don't get how this makes sense. You think galron is town, but yeet is lying to prevent his lim????

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: VP Baltar E-2

people thinking this is town.

what's your tl dr case on me specifically

It's in the first post I made today. You were in the crowd with extremely questionable votes around galron. You've also essentially stopped contributing thoughts to the game and are just doing a lot of naked votes.

But prove me wrong and provide some analysis here.

[VP Baltar]

I thought Yeet lied about softs up until now when I saw their flip. My change of vote EoD off of Galron was because I read your iso and saw that you read flipped onto him making me think he was town.

I don't get how this makes sense. You think galron is town, but yeet is lying to prevent his lim????

@frog

[VP Baltar]

why doesn't it come from a town perspective? why did multiple scum people futz around lethargically with a galron wagon or whatever you're trying to say we all did

As explained in my post, the why is because galron was very close to being eliminated. One vote away. And if he had died, that would leave Malcom and me alive today, two town wagons that could be argued still need resolution

[VP Baltar]

I think Galron has a tendency to be limbait in general, in this case I'd say VP is the main player trying to make use of it on D2.

I worked to save galron. How is that me making use of him being limbat?

[VP Baltar]

VP I thought Galron had a good chance of going through EoD yesterday up until the hammer, I think I took Yeet's softs less seriously than other townies (I didn't take Yeet's softs seriously at all.)

No, I thought Galron was town not scum at the time I unvoted them D2. I think Galron has a tendency to be limbait in general, in this case I'd say VP is the main player trying to make use of it on D2.

This makes no sense. You are stating:

1) yeet was lying about an innocent on galron, or so you perceived until today.

2) galron was town.

These facts are in direct conflict with each other. Why would yeet fake a clear on galron, if galron was town about to be eliminated?