Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 10, 2022 3:55 pm

In post 3818, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 3816, Nero Cain wrote:If the reasoning for Malcolm is that he's a partner with VP I'm not sure why we should stop voting VP?
Nero making actual sense

I've made plenty of sense this game its just that it's been about you and you're pouting

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:09 pm

You just talk a big game but that's about all.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:28 pm

In post 3689, Eyes without a face wrote:How am I letting VP get yeeted when I am not only not voting him but hve actively said I TR him over and over again? An

Well, you see a player is eliminated when they get the required number of majority votes. The way to stop that is to make sure that someone else gets the required number of majority votes first. The way to do that is vote. Thank you for your interest in learning how to play mafia.

In post 3732, Eyes without a face wrote:because traditionally he hardly gets anything right when he's town. That means that if Nero is town you have much better odds going against his wishes

I would argue the "hardly gets anything right" isn't an accurate portrait of town me but even if that was true, so what? I'm hardly the sole pusher of VP so you're are trying to discredit the wagon on VP by trying to discredit one of his attackers rather than the case(s) on him.

In post 3760, MalcolmTucker wrote:Eyes TR'd me the other day. What has particularly changed?

VP got wagoned

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:38 pm

Boon is prob town and scum are sheeping him on Malcolm.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:40 am

In post 3925, Cape90 wrote:I am starting to think scum are outside of VP/Malcolm like scum is like Nero or something

Do you have something to say to me?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 11, 2022 5:55 am

In post 3957, Cape90 wrote:
In post 3933, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 3925, Cape90 wrote:I am starting to think scum are outside of VP/Malcolm like scum is like Nero or something
Do you have something to say to me?
You have been trusting of my slot this whole time and felt of pocketing me when I felt like it was unwarranted

Well...there's 4 in the hood. At most, there will be 2 scum (i assume). I mean, I'll be pretty shocked if I'm the only town neighbor. I'm scum reading both VP and Skitter so...now maybe I'm just wrong here and both Skitter and VP are town at which point we should prob be 1v1ing but until we flips VP and Skitter I'm not going to push for your head unless there's a guilty or something. Also, lowkey feel like VP's push on you for being the hammer is just super basic and I don't think he believes in it or anything he's been pushing this game.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:18 am

Why does VP feel town?

I'd do Eyes as a backup if you guys are really afraid to vote out someone b/c he's uses strongly-worded bullshit

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 11, 2022 6:49 am

Lunch
Launch
Lift
Level
Lay
Lazer

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:02 pm

In post 4022, Yeet wrote:
In post 4021, Titus wrote:*sees inanity of page 1*

*bolts to VCs*
Why even read page one we all knew you were just gonna do that anyway

I'm actually surprised that she read page 1.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:05 pm

scum do post during RVS so it's possible to find scum during "RVS"

can we kill VP now?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:10 pm

In post 4031, Titus wrote:assuming Math is a mason

In post 4031, Titus wrote:then why would scum shoot monkey over Math?

its Math...

In post 4034, Titus wrote:I didn't get a staunch read either way yet. Why?

So you read him? If so why did you not talk about him. If your post wasn't about VP then I have no clue what you are on about.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:40 pm

In post 4040, Frogsterking wrote:I'm worried shinier topics are going to distract from the VP wagon.

oh shiny.....

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:51 am

What id, we voted out VP as a birthday present?

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:31 am

In post 4058, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 4056, Nero Cain wrote:What id, we voted out VP as a birthday present?
Luv u bb

no u don't. lim all liars!

In post 4064, Scorpious wrote:VOTE: Nero

Basics. Scum flooding the game to hide and make it impossible to case.

clearly! I wouldn't call my a spam/shitposter...maybe a hyperposter but even then I don't feel like that's very apt just b/c hyper has a bit of a slight negative connotation to me. Engaged is more like it. I'm always pretty active as town and I don't see why you think my game play is any different than all those other games I have a high post count in.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:42 am

day is dragging now and I didn't realize that there are only 3 days left on the clock so not in a rush but we should start thinking about how the day is going to end instead of a last min elimination.

Galron
Enchant
VP Baltar
MalcolmTucker
Scorpious
MathBlade

should all be shot from a cannon for being useless with their votes.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 12, 2022 8:02 am

that is a pretty good description of your play.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 12, 2022 8:13 am

Titus IS right that he struggles with content when scum but most players do. His 300 was pretty bad I think. Though I think he's an ez target or intentionally makes himself an ez target. Claiming VT early was sorta ass too.

He could be scum or he could just be bad town. He's not a horrible d2 lim but I still think VP is scum so...

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 12, 2022 8:28 am

Hem was scum reading Scorpios and ???

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 12, 2022 9:48 am

I mean I can hammerbut I'd wish that you and sister would actually give your opinion on VP or maybe you did and I just forgot.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 12, 2022 10:33 am

I literally can't hammer you yet...

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 12, 2022 10:36 am

yeah, why would you ever do anything?

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:26 pm

The case on Fire is the Fire got off VP's wagon b/c Fire is scum that didn't want to look bad on his supposed town flip. But that should apply just as much to Scorp but he's only hard pushing one of them.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:29 pm

thats not my case its VP's case

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:01 pm

In post 4121, VP Baltar wrote:An attack on one, is an attack on all!

WE ARE ONE!

Nero Cain · Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:00 am

In post 4198, Scorpious wrote:I’m so ungodly behind and have been open about it. I’m an easy mis lim. And waaaaaay back I claimed VT FYI.

What if you were lying about being behind?

I thought it was very poor play to claim VT for shit all reason.

Nero Cain · Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:11 am

oh lordy...

Nero Cain · Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:51 am

I still prefer getting rid of VP
Sorp is a decent compromise
Malcolm is the least fav of the 3

Everyone not voting one of those 3 is scum or useless.

VP being hesitant to vote Malcolm or Scorp is pretty bad looking.

Nero Cain · Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:55 am

I still need 7, 710 posts.

Tomorrow is PI day so I already know what I'm having for lunch and dinner.

Nero Cain · Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:05 am

2nd the Scorp vig. it's a good shot.

Nero Cain · Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:07 am

there are diffrent kinda vigs

Nero Cain · Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:09 am

or Fua could have just been scum that fakeclaimed vig. Who knows but Enchant isn't making it to end game anyways so...

Nero Cain · Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:39 am

VP has accused me of being scum in the main thread at least twice. First, he was pushing a Nero/Wu team and then he was saying that scum in the hood was me or skitter.

He's sorta backed off now and is just calling me a VI.

I think his language in the hood is kinda funky. He started out saying that "anyone reasonable would think there's scum here." but more recently has used "potential scum" and at one point said something like "because Nero thinks there's scum here." and it just feels like he's trying to straddle the fence between looking like he's uninformed and being informed idk.

Nero Cain · Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:42 am

he pushed cape for a while but that didn't get any traction. His play just feels so different than yesterday where he was yelling and screaming for a Wu lim and now he's just kinda reserved.

Nero Cain · Sun Mar 13, 2022 8:00 am

bye math. have a nice sleep.

Nero Cain · Sun Mar 13, 2022 8:06 am

In post 4246, VP Baltar wrote:Who are you trying to fool with this? Titus and galron most likely since they were not here I guess. I'm being run up because 'boo hoo vp is so mean and calling people scum with his so many misreps, etc,' but I'm also reserved and timid I guess?

It's slightly subjective but I think it's an objective fact that you were being more forceful with your pushes yesterday then you are today. As I said in the hood thread I think you are being very dishonest when you lie and claim that you are being run up b/c you are being mean.

In post 4246, VP Baltar wrote:Like I said, you are running a marketing campaign rather than actually scum hunting.

must be doing a halfway decent job if you are the leading wagon. Kinda funny that you were blasting me earlier for not being able to build a wagon on you.

Nero Cain · Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:37 am

isn't 4280 against new site rules? It's kinda dumb though, the rule.

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:00 am

I mean it is ass that Malcolm isn't voting...

My first thought was that Vp was scum and Malcolm was a CW that scum Yeet and Eyes hopped on. Maybe he's scum, maybe he's not, IDK.

Cape, Titus, STD, Enchant, Galron should be moving their votes to one of those 2 wagons.

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:28 am

I think Malc is town. Voting out a scummy ascetic claim is a good day 2 elim but I think voting out Scorp would be p good too but I don't think there's enough time for that.

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:43 am

In post 4384, fireisredsir wrote:but legitimately cannot figure out what the maf team composition would look like if it's not in VP/malc

What about players like eyes or scorpios, galron?

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:44 am

enchant?

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:48 am

In post 4382, Titus wrote:I'm thinking VP but that's totally based on social dynamics. I'd like to review each ISO.

this being a thing you hadn't done b/c?

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:32 am

In post 4425, VP Baltar wrote:Also, y'all need to sideline Nero in either case. He's tanking the game for town regardless of alignment and too many people, possibly scum, are encouraging that.

It's possible I guess. My reads aren't always great but they also aren't always wrong. You flipped town d1 and you are currently voting someone that's prob town, I think you are doing just as much, if not more damage than me. You've been mainly pushing in a frog/fire/tene/cape group but it seemed like you didn't push any of them particularly hard.

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:42 am

In post 4439, Cape90 wrote:
In post 4322, MathBlade wrote:VP and Galron scum team
If that's the scumteam, then me and Nero literally have 2 mafia neighbors

I honestly find it less and less likely tbh thinking about it

I mean, I offered you that example of being in a 3 person hood in a mini normal with 2 scum meaning I was the only town in the hood so it doesn't feel like it would be a huge stretch for a hood to be 50/50. Also, Galron's vote meant Malcolm's wagon went over VP so it could easily be a S/S thing.

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:52 am

my only other thought is someone like an Eyes , Yeet, Galron, Titus scumteam has a vested interest in keeping a poorly playing VP alive so I continue to tunnel him instead of switching my focus to them.

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:53 am

In post 4452, MathBlade wrote:@Nero join my shiny Galron flash wagon please *puppy eyes*

My vote is there in spirit but I want to see what happens first.

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:03 am

let the little kid act out

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:15 am

In post 4456, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 4453, Nero Cain wrote:my only other thought is someone like an Eyes , Yeet, Galron, Titus scumteam has a vested interest in keeping a poorly playing VP alive so I continue to tunnel him instead of switching my focus to them.
if that's the scum team, I'm not the one playing shitty there. They are defending me for town cred because of your bad play and the people sheeping you.

but that would also mean that they want you in the game b/c you are doing nothing but pushing town so...

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:16 am

here is the VC before Enchant votes

In post 4350, Mizzytastic wrote:MalcolmTucker (6): Eyes without a face, Yeet, VP Baltar, April Ludgate, fireisredsir, Scorpious [E-3]
VP Baltar (5): tenebrousluminary, Nero Cain, Frogsterking, DeasVail, MathBlade
Scorpious (3): Cape90, Save the Dragons, Titus
Galron (1): Enchant

Not Voting (2): MalcolmTucker, Galron

here is what would have been the vc after enchant voted.

MalcolmTucker (6): Eyes without a face, Yeet, VP Baltar, April Ludgate, fireisredsir, Scorpious
VP Baltar (6): tenebrousluminary, Nero Cain, Frogsterking, DeasVail, MathBlade, Enchant
Scorpious (3): Cape90, Save the Dragons, Titus

Not Voting (2): MalcolmTucker, Galron

MalcolmTucker (7): Eyes without a face, Yeet, VP Baltar, April Ludgate, fireisredsir, Scorpious, Galron
VP Baltar (6): tenebrousluminary, Nero Cain, Frogsterking, DeasVail, MathBlade, Enchant
Scorpious (3): Cape90, Save the Dragons, Titus

Not Voting (1): MalcolmTucker

Galron vote gives Tucker the go ahead vote

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:38 am

but Gal voting Malcolm to put him in the lead seems like the exact opposite of willing to let you die no? I mean maybe you could argue that its reverse psycology to make me think that's what he's doing but I'm a simpleton and just think he's voting Malcolm to "tighten the wagons up" b/c he's either scum with you or is defending you for the town cred or maybe he can't count. At any rate, I don't think either of us should live till endgame.

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:55 am

in time

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:26 am

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:28 am

Who are the scum pushing him?

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:59 pm

I think April coming in and pushing Malcolm and Malcolm wagon competing with VP are two unrelated events that have nothing to really do with each other.

My first reaction was that "this is very dumb and Yeet is prob scum." on 2nd thought "this is dumb and it could just be from paranoid town but could still be from scum."

But I'm also just slightly conf bias b/c the way I see the game is that scum got wagoned (VP), town (April) started pushing town (Malcolm), and scum (eyes, yeet) saw the opportunity to try end d2 in a not VP flip.

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:03 pm

prob that you are selectively reading my posts

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:26 pm

but I think Malcolm is doing a piss poor job of making me not want to vote him b/c every time he posts but doesn't vote and talks about how wary he is just makes me not particularly care if he lives or dies.

Nero Cain · Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:28 pm

In post 4530, Yeet wrote:What do you mean?

I mean that you are quoting a specific line in 4529 but the answer to your question is also in 4529.

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:55 am

Malcolm and Galaron wagons are tied @ 6 apiece. I'd rather vote Gal than tucker but I'd like to see where Frogsterking, DeasVail, Titus, Save the Dragons put their votes @

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:56 am

You're yucky!

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:59 am

like a lack of credibility is going to stop you from pushing a DV/Fire scum and prob get sheeps from scum.

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:10 am

yes but are you the one that solves them?

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:27 am

I can confirm that VP told Gal in the hood that Math was a mason before Gal came into the thread and said Math "looked town". Is that scum trying to look uninformed? eh, possibly but it's also just kinda...dumb.

VOTE: Galron

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:31 am

there's still enough votes to vote Malcolm out.

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:31 am

In post 4592, April Ludgate wrote:Nero scum would make a lot of sense this game, tbh.

how so?

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:34 am

In post 4583, VP Baltar wrote:It's absurd to think it is likely there are two scum in the hood.

no, it's not and it's why I've been starting to wonder if it's you and Cape and not you and Skitter. Or maybe you are just scum that sheeping Cape's not great argument that "there can't be 2 scum in the hood"

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:37 am

In post 4605, April Ludgate wrote:Fence sitting a lot, subtly guiding, that Galron vote had a huge amount of momentum, and it just kinda makes a lot of sense with Malcolm.

who did I fence sit on? I mean I get voted for fence sitting as town all the time so what makes this fence sitting a scum fence sit rather than a town fence sit? But who did I fence sit on?

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:41 am

so basically you are calling me scum without any examples. Do your homework b4 you try to step up to the next lvl, bro.

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:47 am

@cape yeet is saying that Gal isn't scum b/c Skitters d2 was ++++++++town

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:51 am

even if Gal was town I don't think his mislim dooms the town.

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:03 am

Is it really worth it to soft claim an inno on Gal?

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:06 am

I mean, I felt like Gal was pretty darn scummy for placing to go ahead vote on Malcolm. Didn't care much about the "slip" thing but I guess it makes sense.

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:09 am

In post 4670, Frogsterking wrote:can VP still happen?

doubt it. I would like to hear words from Titus and Gal. I think we still have time on the clock.

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:11 am

mizzy is all like "will u clownz stop posting so I can VC!"

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:14 am

a brick

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:15 am

i side with REASON and LOGIC

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:21 am

math we have 16 hours, its enough time for Gal and Titus to post

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:45 am

yeet doesn't have an inno on gal

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:09 am

yeah Titus just lulzly plodding along is prob scum Titus

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:11 am

VP remains scum. I also think Eyes, Titus, Yeet are all scummy. Scorp is eh...policy. Could be scum could be useless town.

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:12 am

In post 4739, VP Baltar wrote:I think giving April a Malcom lim isn't terrible.

this post makes me feel like April is being setup but I guess its not impossible that this is just WIFOM between scums

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:13 am

In post 4750, Enchant wrote:I still need to shot Galron?

shoot eyes or scorp

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:16 am

part of me does just want a Malcolm flip so if he flips town like I think he will we can just like kill everyone on it b/c I bet its chock full of scum

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:23 am

In post 4756, Frogsterking wrote:I still don't understand how the Malcolm wagon got to the point it did.

scum sheeping Boon was my original thought. But Malcolm hasn't done the greatest job being all hesitant to vote and being wary about hammering or shit.

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:24 am

In post 4759, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 4750, Enchant wrote:I still need to shot Galron?
Kill Nero plox

get over yourself kid

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:27 am

like we are even reading your posts.

k lets shoot eyes

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:35 am

VOTE: vp

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:38 am

So is calling me scum without a case

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:40 am

ok wannabe Chamber

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:43 am

In post 4784, April Ludgate wrote:
In post 4782, Nero Cain wrote:ok wannabe Chamber
what's a Chamber

chamber is the guy that is "famous" for saying that cases are scummy

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:59 am

In post 4788, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 4778, Nero Cain wrote:So is calling me scum without a case
No one needs to case you. All signs point to you being scum. You're flailing back on to me now that galron is possibly clear. You fucked up trying to cowboy the hood. Not my fault you play a short game without thinking.

Flip me today, that's fine. It will be your death sentence.

We all think/thought there is/was scum in the hood. D1 you were pushing town Wu while I was trying to push hood scum. I still think Yeet and Gal are both scummy. It's risky but not unheard of for scum to defend their buddies. But lets just give Yeet the benefit of the doubt that he's town with some type of result on Gal. I should just ignore this and be useless with my vote? What is this? Your stuff is so basic and I have a hard time seeing this from town with 14 years of experience.

Nero Cain · Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:02 am

Math just hammer Malcolm. If he's town we get to go ape shit on his voters and if he's scum then we are closer to our wincon.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 11:48 am

im fine with any of Titus, VP or April

VP's been calling me scum since d1 but he keeps going after weaker targets and ^ is just

IIOA

. He's not hunting and just trying to find "evidence" to fit his narrative rather than let the evidence tell the narrative.

Also overnight he said that he thought Malcolm was town while continuing to sit on him instead of push his top "scumread". Obviously, this is blatantly scummy but that's prob the point so his buddies/town that thinks they have a big brain will argue that "scum wouldn't do that"

VOTE: april

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 11:53 am

do you think anyone should be held responsible for the Malcolm wagon?

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 11:59 am

In post 4876, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 4874, Nero Cain wrote:do you think anyone should be held responsible for the Malcolm wagon?
Sure, there is probably a scum on there. We are limming frogster today though.

or maybe lets not let someone take the wheel that's pushed nothing but town this game. We are voting off the Malcolm wagon.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:05 pm

In post 4854, Mizzytastic wrote:MalcolmTucker (9): Eyes without a face,
Yeet
, April Ludgate, Scorpious,
Galron
, VP Baltar, Titus, fireisredsir,
MathBlade

the 4 scum are here.

I'm giving scorp some leeway since he's tene's town read he's just sorta LHF that scum could try to mislim.

but between April, VP, Eyes, Titus and Fire is prob the scum team.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:09 pm

technically Gal could still be a mafia traitor but even if he was that still means he's not a priority since he dies when we off team scum.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:15 pm

If he was an x-shot killing role then he would have gotten "can kill" or "has already killed" Traitors aren't part of the mafia team and can't carry out the kill.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:24 pm

ah I see.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:35 pm

In post 4906, fireisredsir wrote:if fua/enchant vig claim was fake, would their maf partners likely want to bus them,

on d2? doubt it

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:49 pm

yeah but even if Gal is a traitor its the main scum team thats a threat. Let's finally get out VP like we should have been done yesterday.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:51 pm

like its me or VP today, one one of yes. VP is being a wus and won't vote me b/c he knows he can't win a 1v1 against me.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:52 pm

*vote

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:54 pm

math....gal is either town or a traitor

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:00 pm

traitor can't carry out the scum teams kill

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:02 pm

In post 4919, Cape90 wrote:How many normals have 3rd parties?

not that often, I think. Sometimes I see SK get sprinkled in but something like a survivor is super rare.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:03 pm

In post 4898, VP Baltar wrote:Look at him today, he is trying to shade people on the Malcom wagon

is this any different than you arguing that the scum team is/was pushing you?

Also, your argument that I was pushing Malcolm is bullshit. I wasn't voting Gal even though I was calling him scum is b/c I was on your wagon which was bigger. A town 2008 should understand this.

In post 4862, VP Baltar wrote:Another stupid miscalculation, probably meant to sway cape or Titus, but it's a misread of the game state

if I'm scum then it's not a "misread" You seem to have a lot of understanding about this game.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:08 pm

In post 4923, Cape90 wrote:but I ask Nero why, have not received a response on that.

prob b/c my responses are in various posts in here. Have I done one big post for why VP is scum? no but I think if you read my posts one can understand why I think this is scum.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:11 pm

In post 4926, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 4924, Nero Cain wrote:Also, your argument that I was pushing Malcolm is bullshit.
Your iso is full of you saying Malcom is a good possible lim, until it is happening, then you want nothing to do with it

I don't really remember that. I tell Math to hammer towards the end so we can finally move on and vote you and the other Malcolm voters. Meanwhile, you were sitting on what you thought was a town flip so...

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:14 pm

In post 4930, VP Baltar wrote:I'm on my phone and can't even do a proper ctrl+f.

Nero is full of shit this whole game.

then push me you fucking wus. You won't do it b/c you know I'm not the path of least resistance. Also, your examples in 4931 aren't pushing a Malcolm wagon.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:16 pm

In post 4934, VP Baltar wrote:And yep, I'm not going to lim myself when I can see my green role PM. How is this even an argument you're making????

I never said anything like that. I said push

me!

VOTE: VP

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:20 pm

like VP is just throwing out random junk at this stage. He has nothing b/c he is scum and can't earnestly hunt.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:32 pm

In post 4946, fireisredsir wrote:why is everyone ignoring that psychologists get negative results on people who have already killed and therefore do not necessarily imply that there is a traitor

i wouldn't be THAT surprised to see a traitor but eh

or maybe I'm not understanding? Team mafia would still retain their kill ability and "would get is capable of killing." It would be JOATS and x-shot vigs/sks (and town and mafia traitor) that would get is "not capable of killing or has already killed."

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:34 pm

In post 4951, VP Baltar wrote:Definitely will have to be tomorrow before I go fetch that.

Why did these great examples not make it in your case?

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:44 pm

I am not sure if he said so last day phase or not but in the hood overnight VP was talking about how he thought Malcolm was going to town flip while vote parking that for most of the day. Your thoughts Fire?

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:54 pm

naw, lets vote the scum pr not the goon

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:56 pm

In post 4957, Nero Cain wrote:I am not sure if he said so last day phase or not but in the hood overnight VP was talking about how he thought Malcolm was going to town flip while vote parking that for most of the day. Your thoughts Fire?

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:03 pm

In post 4969, April Ludgate wrote:Scum might have wanted the Malcolm wagon to chain fade me.

Unless Yeet was PR checked, that definitely was a kill to weaken my position further than it already was going to be past the Malcolm flip.

christ, get over yourself.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:13 pm

In post 4971, fireisredsir wrote:it's how he was acting like he was willing to die and sacrifice himself while pushing malc at the same time

agree but I do think him sitting on what he felt like (knew b/c he's scum) was a mislim while not pushing for a frog wagon is ass. it goes back to what I said d2, he's just going with the past od least resistance.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:16 pm

I do like your stuff about VP but you aren't out of the woods yet. You lost alot of your town cred when you supported Malcolm over VP.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:47 pm

In post 4985, VP Baltar wrote:Who is he willing to risk his reputation on the flip of? If the answer is no one

So you are no one?

I offered to 1v1 today but you are scared to do so.

Nero Cain · Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:55 pm

I don't know how this game got worse overnight

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:17 am

at the time it was, he's back to calling me scum

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:24 am

In post 5158, Save The Dragons wrote:is no one else concerned about april at all?

I am but even if April is scum then there's still 3 outside of him. VP should have been eliminated d2. Let's fix our mistake.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:26 am

then vote me?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:28 am

its like what I said on n1, VP is only following the path of least resistance. Tunnels Wu, sits on Malcolm, votes eyes

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:31 am

kinda rings hollow when you dropped your frog vote at the drop of a nickel to join a much easier eyes wagon

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:34 am

you think that scum are me and frog but you are going after neither of us. I know that you did add eyes to your latest list but thats only b/c his wagon popped up. Your "scumreads" are me, frog and STD and you aren't trying hard to get any of us.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:39 am

then why have you killed more town then I have this game?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:49 am

do you feel like "I'm not going to read d1 and continue to be misinformed b/c that's my playstyle." is a particularly pro-town thing to do?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:52 am

In post 5120, Galron wrote:I feel like I'm tunneled on Baltar and Nero because that's about all of the content in the hood. What Cape has written leans me town there.

????

You haven't expressed any suspicion of VP at all. Balter has been calling me scum since d1 but he's afraid to push anything that he actually has to push.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:54 am

In post 5185, Titus wrote:
In post 5182, Nero Cain wrote:then why have you killed more town then I have this game?
Not a fan of this but that's your personality I think.

Y not? its the truth. He pushed the Wu wagon through, he pushed the Malcolm wagon through. They were both town.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 5:57 am

my only slight problem with Yeet is that he shouldn't have claimed

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:03 am

its just bluster

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:15 am

In post 5186, VP Baltar wrote:What we know is you have gone after town, then backed off and try to shade people on the wagon.

I pushed Wu true but then there was evidence presented that he might not be scum and I followed that. You pushed through 2 town wagons while I didn't.

In post 5186, VP Baltar wrote:I gave you a chance to flip me yesterday and look like shit.

You keep saying "oh Nero will look like shit when I flip," ok, flip and make me look like shit.

In post 5186, VP Baltar wrote:Why are you so ineffective at getting a wagon over if you're so town?

my ability/inability to get you eliminated has nothing to do with my alignment. Just by virtue of you being scum you have 3 slots that are far less likely to ever vote for you. If you were town and with my stubborn ass pushing you its a wonder that you haven't flipped yet.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:40 am

should anyone trust your reads after you've flipped nothing but town?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:50 am

As for the hood...

I asked Dats d1 for links of games he's played in with hoods. I bet he thought I was asking him to judge the reliability of mods putting scum in hoods but I wasn't. I had wanted to see what his normal reaction to hoods were like. I skimmed and I really didn't find anything.

In post 2260, Datisi wrote:
In post 2254, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2236, Datisi wrote:this makes me think, did skitter's wagon go up at like, any point other than last night?
I think some people had mentioned Skitter being scum most notably Math and Fire for not doing her "ping" thing.

Can you link me a game or 2 that you played in where there was a hood?
thanks, i'll check that out.

normal games that i've played in that had a hood are:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=80974 - 9p, town/town
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=82613 - 9p, town/scum
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=83045 - 9p, town/town
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=84455 - 13p, town/town
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=84322 - 12p, town/scum/scum

and one game which had a scum/scum hood of a scum and a traito
r that i'm not really counting since it wasn't a hood in the usual sense.

so, yeah. i'm really not buying the notion that "there has to be scum in hood because *radio static*".

it could just be a very odd coincidence but even if Gal was a traitor we need to vote the 3 not him scum first but scum/traitor hoods do exist. I was in one too, dunno if it was the same game he was in or not.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:02 am

i mean everyone had already picked up on it. Scum pushing Gal was too much work besides scum were the ones sitting safely on the Malcolm ML.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:05 am

In post 5259, Titus wrote:VOTE: Nero

Not sure if this is scum. I'm voting here for the wagonomics and work with VP.

Join me VP?

Who do you actually scum read?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:10 am

Why vote me if you want to work with VP and he's voting eyes?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:28 am

to bus or not to bus, it a hard q isn't it?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:05 am

Titus you voted VP yesterday, what's making you not want to vote him today?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:09 am

so my play is scummy? whats scummy about it?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:13 am

Wha do you agree with VP on? What does my pride have to do with anything?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:18 am

In post 5314, VP Baltar wrote:What was the protown motivation for making Yeet's role a point of public discussion?

I had none but I'm not informed like you and didn't know if his role was real although he was being pretty open about it so I think claiming that I brought undue attention to it is a stretch.

whats the protown motivation of sitting on a wagon that you thought was going to flip town?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:22 am

In post 5321, Titus wrote:Your very stubborn in my eyes and can mask that to push town.

your boi over there VP has flipped 2 town, I haven't. Why do you think VP is town?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:29 am

In post 5330, VP Baltar wrote:Also, you haven't flipped anyone. That's not +town. It shows TMI.

then flip already. I pushed Wu then changed my mind for reasons that you and Skitter chose to ignore so you could play the ignorance card and you've been my main suspect ever since.

so flip and make me look like shit

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:42 am

In post 1344, VP Baltar wrote:Vote Wu and stop being a coward

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:48 am

In post 5346, Titus wrote:That's part of why I feel a need to stoo this wagon. It's major cog dis.

So...VP, who has been a major proponent to both ML's, is agency captured? and his wagon needs to be stopped? or is this about Gal who is pretty much off the table today.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:16 pm

this game really makes me think of that time I hard pushed one of Titus' buddies and she hard defended them + attacked me

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:18 pm

i mean, i just got home...

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:22 pm

the problem with VP and Titus is that neither of them are pushing where they think scum are. On d2 VP was content to sit on Malcolm instead of try to get a wagon going on Frog or whoever was his "numba 1 scumread!" and today Titus is voting me despite pushing a eyes/deas/scorp scum team

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:25 pm

In post 5521, Titus wrote:
In post 5516, Nero Cain wrote:this game really makes me think of that time I hard pushed one of Titus' buddies and she hard defended them + attacked me
???? I'm leaning town on you. How can you say that I'm attacking you here. That's not consistent with what's happening.

Also, who am I hard defending? VP? You think that I go to this length to defend a dead man walking when the best response is to shut up dead buddies?

I think saying that you lean town on me while voting me is ass town play. It's effectively chainsaw defending VP. I'm also citeing a game where you HAVE very much hard defended a scum buddy.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:28 pm

VP's "leadership" has netted us nothing but dead town.

time to stop bitching and start a revolution

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:32 pm

also, someone (prob VP and Titus) keep talking about how we are in such a bad place but even if we are the only reason we are is b/c we didn't vote out VP yesterday like we should have.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:37 pm

i'm town

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:50 pm

also, Titus' "agency captured" scenario and how she thinks is town doesn't really mesh with reality.

In post 4854, Mizzytastic wrote:MalcolmTucker (9):
Eyes without a face
, Yeet, April Ludgate,
Scorpious
, Galron, VP Baltar, Titus, fireisredsir, MathBlade [E-0!]
VP Baltar (5):
DeasVail
, Frogsterking, tenebrousluminary, Save the Dragons, Nero Cain

In post 5475, Mizzytastic wrote:VP Baltar (5): Nero Cain, fireisredsir, MathBlade, tenebrousluminary, Save The Dragons [E-3]
Nero Cain (4): Titus, VP Baltar, Cape90,
Scorpious

Enchant (1): Enchant

*scorp vote moved for clarity

As we can clearly see 75% of her scumspects are the ones that wanted a not VP flip and today she thinks scum is voting me while still not wanting a VP flip.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:52 pm

Also not that if I get flipped instead of VP this will be the second time town has been a CW to a VP wagon.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:55 pm

but with your proposed team scums bidding has been to not let VP die....

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:58 pm

I would like to resolve VP today, if we really can't get him Titus is fine but VP should have been flipped yesterday. All his stuff about being a good hunter and a net positive for town is just bluster. Don't let him fool you.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:01 pm

In post 5572, Titus wrote:
In post 5571, Nero Cain wrote:but with your proposed team scums bidding has been to not let VP die....
#confused?

fake

scum is voting me over VP today, the majority of scum was voting Malcolm. If you really believed in your world you'd have to believe that scum really really doesn't want VP flipped.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:12 pm

In post 5586, fireisredsir wrote:VOTE: Titus

eyes prob votes me over VP so your vote effectively make me the leading wagon.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:17 pm

In post 5596, Titus wrote:
In post 5590, fireisredsir wrote:titus prob just TMIing, and yet still pushing for vp to get limmed

can we just get this instead
I'm not pushing for VP to get eliminated. I just can't herd cattle to get any of my suspects wagoned. I'd literally vote any of them to save my town core. That's Mama Bear.

you aren't even voting for any of them. You are 100% trying to lim me over VP. You don't care about flipping scum, you care about saving VP.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:28 pm

Titus, you keep calling VP town but I don't think you've ever explained why.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:32 pm

In post 5618, Titus wrote:Nero had momentum. When VP voted Frogester that kills the Nero wagon and gives momentum to Frogster

Frog wasn't even in your solve. I have the same issue with both of you guys where you vote wherever the least resistance is. Also not scum reading me while voting me while I had "momentum" is disingenuous.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:35 pm

VP, you keep saying that I should be flipped after you flip "green". Why do you think you shouldn't be flipped after pushing nothing but town?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:36 pm

In post 5625, Titus wrote:Also Frogster is in my scumpool and fits my theory that one of you/Frogster/STD is scum.

so you are sheeping VP's theory then?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 3:38 pm

ok so why is one of us scum?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:06 pm

scum logic? its an objective fact.

I mean yes, I've repeated it a few times but I think there's a decent chunk of scum motivation if you are continuously on town wagons.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:09 pm

In post 5650, Cape90 wrote:
In post 5546, tenebrousluminary wrote:Scorpious - town
Scorpius is literally the biggest question mark right now, how are they town, their plays make very little sense tbh

but he's voting who you think is scum, it's like you are gearing up for my town flip or something.

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:10 pm

In post 5653, Cape90 wrote:Know who else loves saying that to discredit people

mafia

that's not a discredit, that's flat out accusing him of being scum that's pushing MLs

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:14 pm

ok then flip town

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:17 pm

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:23 pm

In post 5664, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 4597, Nero Cain wrote:there's still enough votes to vote Malcolm out.
Remember when Nero said this right after he voted galron.

yes and?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:28 pm

but wouldn't he self if he was srs about not wanting to play?

Nero Cain · Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:48 pm

you could be right on deas but VP is only a push again b/c him and a bunch of others tried to save him and succeded. He's not town.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 3:31 am

I lowkey feel like Boon is just "giving up" in the hopes that we lim him instead of VP...again.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:17 am

There's no way you legit think there are 5 scum. At least VP is trying to look uninformed.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:21 am

For trying to look uninformed? LAMIST

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:28 am

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88949

this game had 3 scum and a traitor. So this game is going to be exactly 4 team scum or 3 team scum + traitor.

Titus' 5 scum in a 19 player is incredibly fake.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:35 am

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:35 am

but you aren't going to flip town so...

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:45 am

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88192 was 3 in 15

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87720 4 in 16

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87368 4 in 17

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:57 am

In post 5738, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 5736, Nero Cain wrote:cape
Why cape over galron?

dude keeps sniping @ me but is ignoring my comments and it sorta feels like he's just active lurking in this game. I felt like he's not scum b/c you are sorta buddying him in the hood. I know that Yeet said its not a clear inno but I'm putting maybe a little stock in it being an inno but you aren't flipping town so moot point.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:08 am

there may or may not be a traitor but there has to be team scum so lets flip those first, yeah?

Also, a traitor dies when we flip all the team scum so whether there is one or not seems like a mute point.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:18 am

In post 5766, Cape90 wrote:
In post 5656, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5653, Cape90 wrote:Know who else loves saying that to discredit people

mafia
that's not a discredit, that's flat out accusing him of being scum that's pushing MLs
Insert circular argument here

Your responses are really weak. Thinking a guy is scum b/c he's pushed nothing but town is a plenty fair argument. If you and him want to argue that its "basic" then fine but he's also arguing that I'm scum if he's town. He's basically arguing the same thing. You said that me accusing him of being scum b/c he's done nothing but push town (Fua possibly notwithstanding) is DISCREDITING him and its not. Either you don't know your terms or you are just throwing out bad word salad. Your response that its circular logic is lame.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:20 am

In post 5770, Cape90 wrote:
In post 5747, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 5738, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 5736, Nero Cain wrote:cape
Why cape over galron?
dude keeps sniping @ me but is ignoring my comments and it sorta feels like he's just active lurking in this game. I felt like he's not scum b/c you are sorta buddying him in the hood. I know that Yeet said its not a clear inno but I'm putting maybe a little stock in it being an inno but you aren't flipping town so moot point.
Why would that make me
not
scum

So scum is buddying you and I should think you are still scum? ok

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:21 am

Titus is scum yes.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:43 am

In post 5777, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 5773, Nero Cain wrote:he's done nothing but push town (Fua possibly notwithstanding)
Again with the misrep unless you magically know alignments of: frog, fire, cape, STD, etc.

You can talk shit all day because you haven't actually joined any wagons. It's such a scum play. Town players are always going to be wrong early game, and personally, I would rather put my votes on wagons that I think are going to advance the game than I am to have it nowhere and snipe at people. That's shit I'd do as scum.

it's not a misrep b/c Wu and Malcolm ARE dead town. I'm also town. Both Math and HEM are town. I'm also not a fan of your downplaying how bad you've been. I mean, yes town will often be wrong. That's common sense. But it's not like players get a 2 day grace period. Scum are often flipped d1/d2 so its not like "town will always be wrong" You are giving yourself an out and its both wrong and scummy.

I haven't been shit with my votes b/c I was more than willing to run-up you or Gal yesterday. Gal didn't happen b/c of a light inno and you didn't happen b/c a buncha baddies got the Malcolm wagon to go over you instead. I didn't join Malcolm b/c I thought he was town and I don't think his flip advanced the game for town.

I'm voting you now. I'd be willing to vote Titus as well but I still think you should be voted out.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:46 am

In post 5789, VP Baltar wrote:I think he is not actually doing anything this game.

see there's no way you actually believe this.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:49 am

In post 5788, Cape90 wrote:I think you have the higher chance of flipping mafia just on the virtue of you kinda just seeming to underplay things

If your argument is that you are town that means that I am correctly reading you and VP so...are you actully arguing that I'm wrong and that you are scum?

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:56 am

I pushed Wu yes but I didn't ignore the conflicting evidence like you did. He was an EZ push and after Math/HEM claimed out you hard pushed the was the easiest wagon. Also your "Nero pushed Malc" is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:07 am

In post 5799, VP Baltar wrote:But here is a pretty notable problem: yeet and Math, two confirmed town, were also on both those wagons.

this also feels like a cop-out. Just b/c there were some town that voted on Malcolm doesn't mean you have to be town.

The three players that you pushed at the begining of the day (and last night) were all ppl that were voting you. You only added eyes this morning b/c his wagon popped up.

The majority of scum were on the Malcolm wagon yesterday and you know it.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:13 am

In post 5807, VP Baltar wrote:Nudging while risking nothing.

I'm not even doing that but nice try.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:16 am

I'm not going to convince scum that they are scum so I really don't care about your opinion but I mean you are basically using the same argument, that I should be flipped if you are town.

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:20 am

ok?

I'm just saying you are being a hypocrite

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:26 am

In post 5818, Titus wrote:Me but their my scumpartners.

i see we have entered the "joke" about VP being my scumbuddy stage

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:29 am

im trying. help me out here?

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:30 am

thanks mama bear

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 10:10 am

In post 5873, Enchant wrote:Either way, don't understand why VP is better kill than Nero.
For me it's really opposite.

Why am I a good kill?

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 10:37 am

Do you honestly believe that I'm only pushing you on you for pushing only town this game?

Nero Cain · Sat Mar 19, 2022 10:42 am

I mean Boon also disappeared when he first replaced in. Boons prod timer hasn't went off. I mean maybe he's just scum that is lurking it out instead of being mostly inactive town.