Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[DeasVail]

I do not have an inno on tene

[DeasVail]

I'm still feeling nervous regarding Frogster. I'm still kind of not convinced of them being scum? I'm not confident enough to say "DON'T DO IT, FROGSTER IS TOWN!!!!" but I also am just a bit... skeptical.

[DeasVail]

For example there's been something a bit demoralising about certain aspects of this game that I expect could kill the desire to solve more than in other games.

[DeasVail]

I do not have an inno on tene

I’m about 80% sure tene is scum

I feel like there's a mismatch between your claimed certainty and the amount of thought that you've demonstrated in regards to the game.

[DeasVail]

Having taken a step back from the game this feels more like a TvT

TvT as in... you vs fire?

[DeasVail]

Here’s the thing, if Frogster is town, this is probably a scum victory because the scum victory path would be Frogster->April.

Why are you so focused on pathing instead of just a solve?

I was going to ask why April is so focused on how town is going to elim them

[DeasVail]

I'm still feeling nervous regarding Frogster. I'm still kind of not convinced of them being scum? I'm not confident enough to say "DON'T DO IT, FROGSTER IS TOWN!!!!" but I also am just a bit... skeptical.

what teams do you think are most likely that don't have frog in them?

I was thinking cape/scorp and then wasn't sure of the other. I think I'm a bit more suspect of April than you are but I'm willing to park that for now. STD is floating around in my head as a maaaybe because recent play is feeling pretty coasty.

I'm also constantly reevaluating my Frogster read so if anything changes there then I'll vote but I'm still.. thinking about it.

PEdit: @Math the above is probably answer to your q. I think I mentioned my top suspects being cape/scorp before though.

[DeasVail]

I also agree that galron is only not in the picture because of the psychologist result, which is either a good thing or... not

[DeasVail]

Anyways, since I am at E-2 should I claim? I am just asking because IDK if hardclaiming counts as something I shouldn't do since VPB never claimed their modifier thing

I think so yes

[DeasVail]

im not really interested in looking at april/deas/std right now. i might tomorrow but i don't think any of them were aligned with titus based on the way she played and they way they have played

Talk to me about Deas, also I find it absolutely hilarious that you are seriously considering my harsh words toward Datisi to be w/w but for some reason 3067/3072 is enough?

Actually thanks for giving me motivation to look at Deas, I think Deas is mafia for kinda being in the background, also to me, I think they are trying to weasel town eliminations.

VOTE: DeasVail

(ps thx for voting my song as the top song in the last song contest lol)

Also no worries! I enjoyed the song <3

[DeasVail]

i've liked cape's pushes

Which one/s?

[DeasVail]

feels kinda towny tho tbh can we do frog instead

I've been waiting to see what Frogster does next, but after some thought I actually have the opposite thought on Cape's recent posting. We know from Cape's stated townread on Frogster that they think of going back and forth on reads as something that's townie, so it would make sense as a last-ditch effort to look town. Also the read on me doesn't seem like it comes from a place of trying to solve the game. Rather, it feels like I'm that just-out-of-reach designer bandwagon that I could totally see taking off if everyone suddenly decided that they just

had

to have it. And I imagine scum could be thinking the same thing.

[DeasVail]

DeasVail is mafia, here are some of the reasons I think this.

1. Deas' world of Cape/Scorp is actually not good. 7339 honestly seems like this/Frogster is possible.

2. 7408 is literally just classic scum quote and nobody is biting. It's literally just a discredit. I feel really good about my Deas push right now.

3. Recent hedginess on Frogsterking. Look at 7281, 7339, 7021.

4. Recent posting has been considerably worse then before.

5. I kinda read this 6403 and even in here, like look at the bottom, it's like Deas is setting up for me being mafia here (specifically the last part after the comma), it's almost obvious to me. Also the Scorpius segment is honestly funny and underbaked, and now Scorpius is top scum with me.

6. 6391, 6372 is gross. Oh and apparently Deas doesn't care about the hood in 5949 so why even have the VPB hard suspicion anyway? Obviously they were scumreading VPB before, it's obv with posts like 4303/4056.

7. Recent hedginess on Frogster contradicts 5706.

This post reads as if you decided you were going to scumread me and then went digging for reasons to justify it

[DeasVail]

To be fair I think you were at risk of dying anyway. I was suspicious that you had a result on me and April.

This makes me think town has a LOT of power though. And so eyes gets some side-eye from me, but I’m not sure that would be the best place to go immediately.

[DeasVail]

I seriously couldn’t understand why you were so confident in us being town

[DeasVail]

I think total 4 scum + traitor is likely.

PEdit: yeah sorry, I kind of wish that you didn’t need to investigate me but I understand why.

I’m still thinking about cape’s suspicion on me, which feels really forced and awkward honestly, but there could be bias there. I won’t be able to specifically respond to the points for another couple of hours, but things like suspecting my read progression on frogster seem super disingenuous considering that changes in reads happen (see: cape) and I’m obviously going to pay attention to the person who led a wagon on Titus.

[DeasVail]

I think Math's point that Fire could easily be a mafia traffic analyzer is a good one, and the possibility of this is why I would not be in favour of eliminating eyes today. It is also, perhaps cautiously why I would rather not go with fire's first-choice lim of frogster, really as a precautionary measure more than anything else. That's what I'm thinking at least.

PEdit: I kind of get where Math is coming from here.

[DeasVail]

if it's like frog/eyes/galron tho maybe they don't even read the thread to see the claim and I'm safe

TRUE

[DeasVail]

dw math i got you

(I think)

[DeasVail]

Okay so here's where I'm at.

STD, Me, Fire, Math, April are all unquestionably off the table as eliminations today.

Galron is semi-clear, but also not really? My understanding is that Galron could also be scum who performed the N1 kill. Nonetheless, I'm not sure that they're a good lim for today.
I could see a world where I support an Eyes elimination today, but I'm cautious because of some paranoia re: fire and I'd rather make the decision on Eyes after another night, if possible.

I strongly townread tene based on play and while I'm open to the possibility of being wrong there I have a really hard time seeing tene as scum!

Then all we have left is Frogster, Scorpious and Cape90. Which at this point is /probably/ not even enough to be the entire scumteam.

I think cape's play makes more sense as scum than Frogster, but obviously there's difference of opinion there. I also don't really think that reasons for townreading Scorpious hold up?

I might go through and do some world-building actually.

[DeasVail]

based on play and interactions i think galron groupscum is unlikely. he could easily be traitor but probably not worth pursuing over other candidates

yeah, I've come to agree with this. Yeet kill doesnt make sense if Galron is groupscum

[DeasVail]

Okay so here's where I'm at.

STD, Me, Fire, Math, April are all unquestionably off the table as eliminations today.

Galron is semi-clear, but also not really? My understanding is that Galron could also be scum who performed the N1 kill. Nonetheless, I'm not sure that they're a good lim for today.
I could see a world where I support an Eyes elimination today, but I'm cautious because of some paranoia re: fire and I'd rather make the decision on Eyes after another night, if possible.

I strongly townread tene based on play and while I'm open to the possibility of being wrong there I have a really hard time seeing tene as scum!

Then all we have left is Frogster, Scorpious and Cape90. Which at this point is /probably/ not even enough to be the entire scumteam.

I think cape's play makes more sense as scum than Frogster, but obviously there's difference of opinion there. I also don't really think that reasons for townreading Scorpious hold up?

I might go through and do some world-building actually.

Go for it, put all the effort you want into getting me limmed..

Then the anti-climatic foretold VT flip, will change everything.

Please, by all means how to make a wagon out of nothing. I can use the education

okay....

[DeasVail]

From a quick read-through I can't really find anything in ISOs that precludes Scorp/Cape/Frogster/Eyes from being scum together. Not a reason for them being together, but if there was something that meant X and Y could absolutely not be scum together then that would be something to look closely at in terms of thinking about possible teams.

I think my choise of elim would be Cape.

[DeasVail]

I think I know what you mean, because every so often I read a tene post and it /feels/ like scum, but every time I really think about the slot I keep coming to the conclusion of town idk.

On further thought, I think Frogster/Scorp pairing is maybe slightly less likely, but I'm not convinced of that yet.

But yeah, I'd be ready to lim Cape at this point. Do we talk about... I don't know... baking or something for 20 pages first?

[DeasVail]

My mind is shattered over how everybody's got a different view of the game.

This is not really my view of the gamestate.

[DeasVail]

dv why aren't you voting

I was waiting until Frogster came back, but I have now realised that this didn’t help me decide either way.

VOTE: Cape90

I think that’s E-2 but honestly I didn’t really check.

[DeasVail]

I feel like we don’t really deserve to still be in this, but I’ll take it

[DeasVail]

Oh wait, there are 9 alive.

Moving on!

Forget I said anything.

We’ve got this!

[DeasVail]

Would also support tene or April..

In what world does a ScumApril kill Fire over a Math?

VOTE: Frogster

In most worlds probably.

[DeasVail]

If I had to pick an uncleared person to be town it would still be Tene.

I think it's highly likely Eyes is scum, but maybe there's an outside chance that Eyes is town if it's like... a 5 scum-team total? I still don't buy it, but I guess sometimes I forget how town-sided setups here sometimes are.

I'm okay with limming frogster or Scorpious, even Eyes.

[DeasVail]

I’m happy considering Scorp today. I guess Frogster’s pop in doesn’t really make me confident in my previous townread there, nor does eyes’ play feel town.

As for Tene, a lot of their posts seem like things that scum would stop themselves from saying. There’s an unfiltered element to the way they’re expressing their thoughts that does not feel fabricated.

[DeasVail]

I’m happy considering Scorp today. I guess Frogster’s pop in doesn’t really make me confident in my previous townread there, nor does eyes’ play feel town.

As for Tene, a lot of their posts seem like things that scum would stop themselves from saying. There’s an unfiltered element to the way they’re expressing their thoughts that does not feel fabricated.

Scorpious Galron Eyes April.

Ignore mechanics: Is this viable to you?

No

[DeasVail]

Psychologist inno + TA inno

So there isn't any combination with STD/April/DV/Galron based on Fire and Yeet Night actions.

There is if Galron is group scum who did the kill N1

He can't. Yeet cleared Galron of being Groupscum.

Yeet's role said had the potential to make a night kill.

The role PM is not totally clear, but my understanding is that Yeet will have received an “x is not capable of killing or has already killed” result

[DeasVail]

I’m happy considering Scorp today. I guess Frogster’s pop in doesn’t really make me confident in my previous townread there, nor does eyes’ play feel town.

As for Tene, a lot of their posts seem like things that scum would stop themselves from saying. There’s an unfiltered element to the way they’re expressing their thoughts that does not feel fabricated.

Scorpious Galron Eyes April.

Ignore mechanics: Is this viable to you?

No

Why not?

Ignore my answer

[DeasVail]

Sorry, a snarky way of proving my point, but I think asking me to ignore a fundamental part of viability when asking me about viability is a bit difficult

[DeasVail]

Yeet

has been found dead. He was a

Town 3-Shot Psychologist

Yeet

You are a

Town 3-Shot Psychologist

Each day you may talk in the game thread and vote on who to eliminate.

Three times during the game you may visit a player at night to investigate their ability to kill. Assuming no interference, you will be informed "PLAYERNAME is capable of killing.", "PLAYERNAME is not capable of killing or has already killed.", or "You got no result from investigating PLAYERNAME." at the end of the night. Players capable of killing are members of the

Mafia

other than

Traitors

,

Serial Killers

and

Vigilantes

who have not yet killed

You win when all threats to the town are dead, and at least 1 town aligned player is alive.

The game thread is here, please confirm your role and alignment via pm.

Yeet got “Galron is not capable of killing or already has killed”

This means Galron is town or traitor or group scum who killed N1

hmm, yeah, that looks possible. this changes a few things.

was Skitter in the game Night 1?

Sorry, a snarky way of proving my point, but I think asking me to ignore a fundamental part of viability when asking me about viability is a bit difficult

I don’t follow your point.

Mechanically my solution is possible.

I am asking if it makes sense by play

I’m not sure that April is scum. I won’t absolutely rule it out, but I don’t think their play makes that much sense for scum. It’s very loud and controversial and I guess I don’t have the same expectation of FL/Boon being right in reads that you do

[DeasVail]

What about the other three then?

Yes definitely

[DeasVail]

Can you remind me what makes Frogster town in your mind?

[DeasVail]

Was there a post where you explained frog/scorp/eyes not being connected? Apologies if I missed it.

[DeasVail]

ah yes, I remember now. Sorry again.

I think I would probably be comfortable going with scorpious or Eyes first. I would be interested in anyone wanting to weigh in on whether they think Eyes' role is possible to be town with the amount of town power that has already been confirmed.

[DeasVail]

ah yes, I remember now. Sorry again.

I think I would probably be comfortable going with scorpious or Eyes first. I would be interested in anyone wanting to weigh in on whether they think Eyes' role is possible to be town with the amount of town power that has already been confirmed.

Do you agree?

I don't think it's absolute, but I agree that it makes Scorp and Frogster less likely to BOTH be scum with eyes.

[DeasVail]

Frogster that reasoning seems… very early-game for this stage of the game.

[DeasVail]

Eyes, it’s interesting to me that you haven’t responded to people clearly doubting your claim. You’ve had a lot to say about a lot of things, and based on your play here I would have expected you to be more outraged that your claim isn’t believed

[DeasVail]

Hmmm… I kind of want to vote for Scorpious

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Scorpious

[DeasVail]

@DV - Let's sheep Fire's Frog/Cape theory onto Frog today. A Frog scum flip makes for an easy Scum Scorp flip, and also we either get Scorp's vote bus or he awkwardly changes his position on Frogster. Either way, pushing Frogster is good for catching the Scorp.

I’ll consider it.

I’ve always been a bit more uncertain on Frogster-scum and am scared that I’m somehow wrong elsewhere and that Frogster is town. But I acknowledge that Frogster and Scorp are pretty likely to both be scum here

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE: Scorpious
VOTE: Frogsterking

I think the main thing that has been holding me back from voting here is a ridiculous sense of stubbornness, which is probably not actually a very good reason.

[DeasVail]

I should probably just hammer eh?

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE: Frogsterking
VOTE: MegAzumarill

AAAAHHHHHH

[DeasVail]

RIP MathBlade

[DeasVail]

What you thinking DV?

One big thing that stood out to me yesterday after I was gone and everyone quick wagon’d was Tene saying they don’t trust April anymore even though they voted the Eyes slot which I had just spent a whole page casing for scum

I have some things I want to look over when not at work, but my inclination is to go Frogster or Scorp. I’ve been coming around to Frogster-scum.

[DeasVail]

Hmm I’m thinking Frogster.

The casing of Eyes feels like trying way too hard for a slot where things ultimately came down to “do you believe the claim or not?”

[DeasVail]

I’ve been thinking a lot about the Eyes follower claim and when it happened/why it happened.

Especially claiming the n2 result on Nero feels like a misplay that probably arises from Eyes being spooked that they got tracked or something? Would be weird if they were honest about the Nero follow but not the others.

Also I wouldn’t read too much into the Math kill. It’s the next logical kill choice for mafia. In previous nights they’ve been killing roles that could actually do things.

[DeasVail]

VOTE: Scorp

Despite the earlier flashes of town, at this point dude is so committed to not making the slightest effort that I don't see what else I can possibly do

What are you thinking of Frogster at this stage?

[DeasVail]

Very well played, scum.

[DeasVail]

Also just wanted to say that I enjoyed playing with a lot of people in this game, with particular shoutouts to Yeet, tenebrousluminary, Malcolm, cape90 and fireisred who I’d never played with before.
I’m sorry for the part I played in making it a more confusing game for town, but it was still fun because of all of you! Take care <3