Mini Normal 2283 - Game Over!

[Firebringer]

god i got town. this game is going to be boring

[Firebringer]

not mafia if ur scum this game don't betray me like last time by voting me. We shit posters need to stick together even when our alignments are different.

Shit posters are always aligned

[Firebringer]

god i got town. this game is going to be boring

seeing the playerlist this game probably wouldn't be amazingly fun in anyways.

maybe fooling shea would be. ngl shea i really don't want to play with you but will try to be civil with u here

[Firebringer]

SSS (standard survey start)

you should start by answering yourself.
i don't feel compelled to answer personality tests in mafia

[Firebringer]

Il tuo italiano is flawless and you totally get me. Keep sheeping what I do and I think we'll get along great this game.

i already have pings from u and i don't want to start playing yet. don't get me to start playing the game before i really start my groove of shit posting.

[Firebringer]

I'm reading Firebringer as scummy by tone. It would help if you filled out my survey, Fire.

i generally don't like being helpful so i will politely refuse.
hows ur day frogster

[Firebringer]

also i decided this game i will not claim scum at all.
normally when someone calls me scum i like to do the cheeky "ofc i am" but this time ill do the cliche boring thing of saying "no im town"

or maybe something neutral. Like "i am what my role pm says i am" idk that doesn't sound entertaining or funny to do.

[Firebringer]

Okay I'll fill it out and you can tell me if anything is different. You were in a few games I read and I think we have a pretty identical temperament.

naah i won't correct u. i will let u pass ur own judgement me on u as u see fit.

[Firebringer]

also its kind of shady of u to ignore my important question of hows ur day.
kind of sus if u ask me

[Firebringer]

Damn, who crushed Firebringer's spirit?

my role pm

[Firebringer]

hows it been grib btw i feel like i havent played with u in a long time

[Firebringer]

I like Eira and Frog for early page 2 townreads.

thats some spicy early reads

[Firebringer]

not to play the game but i don't know how anyone reads page 1 and get a townread on anyone. Frankly only thing i got aisa was u being weird.

pedit yeah ive been on semi hiatus too. i hope we have fun too. at least i will try to enjoy myself because why play if ur not gonna have fun.

[Firebringer]

Actually, our last game together was my last game on this site. Kids TV Show Mafia or something back in 2016.

woah that long ago. getting old over here

[Firebringer]

can we spoiler these quotes of the long personality tests posts so its easier for me to skip over it.

[Firebringer]

Why did you sign up for this game if the playerlist is meh to you?

i had invited some of my favorite players to join and they didn't. So i guess i fail as a cult recruiter

[Firebringer]

i also want to say its not like i hate or dislike the playerlist. As you say i feel kind of meh to it because im not close to any and i don't feel my personality meshes with a few players here. So it feels like it will be a game i will enjoy less, which isn't a slight to anyone thats just my personal problem.

[Firebringer]

vc

Bad kitty.
We all know ur vcs are a lie

[Firebringer]

i wonder if cat scratch is just include no context tv clips from comedy shows in vcs

[Firebringer]

- Be nice.

also this rule is tyranny and i declare that we all be rude to cat scratch fever as a sign of protest against unjust mod rules

>:( -csf

[Firebringer]

I changed my mind a bit. Frog is sus, but not quite scum yet.

Town read acquired

[Firebringer]

Jeez, we're moving fast AND bringing along a foul mood or two.

join me on my ticket of the rude party to take down cat scratch fever

[Firebringer]

there is a gut feeling i have that ur doing things right now to try to get townread that feels out of character frog.
are u really that interested in getting the game going or what

[Firebringer]

feels like ur doing and saying stuff to generate conversation rather than believing it in any of it

[Firebringer]

feels like ur doing and saying stuff to generate conversation rather than believing it in any of it

Not necessarily a bad thing to generate conversation. What part lacks belief?

feels like vote one me is essentially either a reaction test or trying to appear like sorting people. It doesn't seem like he believes it to be genuine push to me regardless of alignment tbh

[Firebringer]

ewww gross im playing the game this early on page 2. what is wrong with me

[Firebringer]

you will learn quickly Frog is an interesting character.
i wish i could compare him to some anime character - one of those characters who are over the top silly and you can't always follow their logic most of the time.

[Firebringer]

ii played a game with him, read another game with him. if i understood his mind i would share it better with you. If i gave you a generic profile i would say expect him to go back and forth very fast and be very invested into reads one moment and then move just as quickly to something else, and that his reasoning and logic are very hard to tract often.

I would say maybe best way to find him to be town because i haven't seen his scum game is probably his lack of care of how he is perceived and this early game interactions def gives me feeling he is caring how he looks. idk too early to tell. Early gut scum feels.

[Firebringer]

its weird i have early game scum reads on two players.
aisa and frog.
This is so unusual

[Firebringer]

Nice to have you Not_mafia join me in the rude faction against the tyranny that is cat scratch fever. She didn't put us on a team and that is unforgivable

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Aisa

ill hop on this
VOTE: aisa

[Firebringer]

Nice to have you Not_mafia join me in the rude faction against the tyranny that is cat scratch fever. She didn't put us on a team and that is unforgivable

I'm Blue Mafia are you Red Mafia?

sorry nm i can't claim scum this game. i promised.
i am town but i am willing to be an ally to the blue mafia for u buddy

[Firebringer]

i could never vote you buddy

[Firebringer]

I think this is probably Town with low certainty. There's a lack of contempt that I would expect to be here if this were intended as shade and I can see town!Fire thinking this is true. I can also see town!Fire viewing Aisa as scummy even though I think the opposite and am low certain his read is wrong and Aisa is Town.

i don't see how this tracts in ur mind with a low townread to move ur vote. am i supposed to have contempt for u as scum and then shade u or something?
why couldn't i have been shading u just then by saying ur all over the map.

also how do u get my scumread on aisa when i have yet to expand on it besides qualifing her posts as weird. What do u get and how do u get a different opinion.

And frankly u dodged my question on if you believed what u were posting or were just doing it too look townie or reaction test me. It seems the lack of answer and leaving it so fast indicates yes but i don't know with you so what is it.

[Firebringer]

why is aisa town

[Firebringer]

And frankly u dodged my question on if you believed what u were posting or were just doing it too look townie or reaction test me. It seems the lack of answer and leaving it so fast indicates yes but i don't know with you so what is it.

Calm down

not sure how u read that post as me not being calm but okay
can u answer my question

[Firebringer]

down with cat scratch fever and her tyrannical pagetop posts and unjust rules on being nice!

[Firebringer]

posts 5 and 6 are openning rvs that mean nothing.
I don't see point in arguing this right now though so will refrain from pushing this further.
I think ur wrong right now but until i get a good case going not worth arguing over

[Firebringer]

post 36 feels nothing like a post sorting me and doesn't seem like genuine 2 reads either. Ill say that and leave it for now.

[Firebringer]

posts 5 and 6 are openning rvs that mean nothing.
I don't see point in arguing this right now though so will refrain from pushing this further.
I think ur wrong right now but until i get a good case going not worth arguing over

You think I'm wrong Town binning Aisa? Can you meta them?

we can have this argument another time

[Firebringer]

i have played one game with aisa. I am not making a case now i don't have one. I am not saying this is a meta read either. If you want to call it anything its gut. That is why i said lets have this discussion later because theres not much for me to discuss.

[Firebringer]

I only townread Grib so no.

[Firebringer]

5) you townreading me right after that felt appease-y.

this is how i felt about my interactions with frog in the last 2 pages after i said he was scum and he changed it to town then said i have a good read of what he is doing.

now im just confused when half o what i said was like "ur trying to appear town and i don't know why" but i think he was going for "trying to create conversation out of nothing" agreeing with the latter but ignoring the former and was just trying to find common ground.

Im sitting her going ok. Why does it feel like ur buddying me and grib here.m.

I don't want to focus too much on frog though i think this thread could be exploding in too much posts if we just do this back and forth.

Frog doesn't make complete sense but im like less on scum lean than i was before. Still weak scum right now.

[Firebringer]

I woudl like to hear more from aisa. Where did that rabbit run of to

[Firebringer]

you act like 6 pages is a lot. i remember the times waking up to 50 pages of posts

[Firebringer]

Which game was that. I don't think ive played scum in like half a year and def don't remember u being my teammate

[Firebringer]

what do you know we did play scum together.
its all coming back to me. your scum game really was bad if memory serves me right in that

[Firebringer]

I want to hear from aisa, she has to tell me how her day was and give me list of favorite foods.
this will help me sort her

[Firebringer]

can we let some other people post.
i don't feel like going into analysis of what ur doing because it will make my head spin and it will just lead to excess pages of back and forth which probably won't be useful to u or me and anyone reading it.
want to hear from others more.

[Firebringer]

im not AtE. I just want other people to post

[Firebringer]

Scum lean on Shea what the fuck

Even if I claimed scum by using verifiable screen shots you wouldn't have the ability to lim me.

Anyway, gunna pass out now. Keep having fun folks.

I wouldn't mind seeing those screenshots

[Firebringer]

Also that game was february this year. I don't know if i would call it recent although i think that was literally my last scum game so i should have remembered it enough to remember you were my teammate. You got elimmed pretty early in that game though and I didn't even read your posts that much now that you reminded me of it. Would need to go back and read the game because my impression was it was pretty bad.

I don't see how that game anyway takes u out of ur scum game here because i would hope u improved since then.

[Firebringer]

wait frogster, quick sanity check for me.
do u seriously believe this about me lying to grib about our past in order to....hide our history or something and this is scum motivated.

Cause honestly i thought this was another thing to just push more pointless conversation forward as you desperately seem like you want to just have people engage.

[Firebringer]

No I can't share them with you.

You would actually be able to get a lim on me.

what lies this man posts

[Firebringer]

how is the baseball game going

[Firebringer]

None of that is relevant to your alignment, or whether or not you and Frog share a private chat.

pretty sure it is relevant if u want to dig into the timing of when he showed up and where he said he was doing at the times previously.

don't know why we want to go into this route. I don't think this is really anything we can dig into without going into conspiracy theory. Nor do I think their interactions scream theatre right now.

[Firebringer]

I don't remember how u do scum interactions but i think uve done them well enough that i never figured u were scum from interactions with teammates so....theres that.

[Firebringer]

I was going to say i don't remember us ever being scum together.

[Firebringer]

None of that is relevant to your alignment, or whether or not you and Frog share a private chat.

pretty sure it is relevant if u want to dig into the timing of when he showed up and where he said he was doing at the times previously.

don't know why we want to go into this route. I don't think this is really anything we can dig into without going into conspiracy theory. Nor do I think their interactions scream theatre right now.

I was talking about the whole "this is where I am and what I'm doing and why I'm V/LA" information, which was never in doubt.

Then maybe im confused on the accusation too. Do you mean that when Shea got back he posted in scum chat and then him and frog mutually decided for Frog to call him out and then Shea to appear? I don't see the point in that, it doesn't even create great anti association.

[Firebringer]

I figure if anything that convo would be like:
Frog: ohh good your back. I will call you out in the main thread
Shea: why that is dumb
Frog: No its good we create anti association
Shea: No it doesn't.

[Firebringer]

not that this helps or anything but ive seen shea play enough to think he truly wasn't around and probably still hasn't read pages 2-6 yet.

[Firebringer]

anyone seen a certain bunny around?

[Firebringer]

Aw, you've missed me?

yes,
and im still happy with where my vote is.

[Firebringer]

Aw, you've missed me?

yes,
and im still happy with where my vote is.

Oh no, were hay and carrots a bad choice of favourite foods?

everyone knows hay is for horses. therefore ur a fake rabbit.
guilty as hell

[Firebringer]

i really dont like ur early townreads on frogsterking and Eiralox

[Firebringer]

ill explain tomorrow i must now do that sleep thing i hear so much about.
if i could sum it up in one word it would be superficial

[Firebringer]

i don't think it's massively ia for fire

This actually intrigues me. Please expand on how this isn't indicative of alignment for me.

[Firebringer]

Okay, now you feel almost too scummy to be scum.

Will you tell me about your playstyle? How you tend to handle the early- mid-, and late-game? Why do people who don't know you typically scumread you, and if someone had experience with you, what would they think of your posts so far?

Sorry for the rapid-fire questions, but you intrigue me.

Firebringer, do you like playing as scum?

yes

Game i staling, let's make decision already and end day.

be the change u want to see

Yeah let's just vote me off

u aren't allowed to die until u give us at least 10 good memes

[Firebringer]

it was very weird to read that i read as demotivated scum (on page 1?) when i said i wanted to be scum and have said i liked playing scum in this game and dozens of games.

[Firebringer]

activity game prediction considering we got like 10 posts in this real day:
ranked from most likely highest activity to lowest-

FrogsterKing
TheStatusQuo
Firebringer
Grib
Aisa - I expect more activity later from this person.

And now i put everyone else in the low activity to moderate lurking to where I expect you to have a total of 20 posts at most by the end of day on the average to even be high end by the end of this game day.


So really in this 13 player game we going to have 5 people playing and 8 people commuting to make comments every now and then.

Someone prove me wrong on this.

[Firebringer]

Anyways my rough dislike of Aisa reads and reasoning behind it. As said before - seems incredibly superficial.

Both have a sort of playfulness and "unseriousness" while not seeming particularly designed to come across as towny to me. Contrast with my personal experience of playing scum, which is to spend lots and lots of time ruminating over the tone of a post. Not much evidence, but I added the "early page 2" qualifier for a reason.

Not trying to look townie on page one with a early posts that amount to nothing. How surface level is this, do you expect a jump in form Eirlax like "look at me im so town" which frankly goes against your next read with Frogster because if that is your expectation then Frogster was basically trying to shout im town from page 1 and onwards and then you justify your read and double down for lets moveo n.....

I tend to townread lots of quick posting, Frog meets that description, and I don't see where the scum agenda is. Hoping for a textbook case of "guy who appears to be scumhunting is, in fact, scumhunting"

Again. This is superficial and lazy and if you go with your reasoning one first as this person isn't trying to look town, this person is been doing that. Admitted he wanted to be seen as town in later posts when I questioned him on it, and you ignore it because "ohh he is scum hunting so he is scumhunting" I am not expecting in depth analysis but I don't expect it to be this basic for aisa from what I remember of you. This is just like let me throw out townreads and justify them later.

Also what is this

Eira's latest post is also consistent with what I know of their townplay, and my best guess is that the stream-of-consciousness style post would be kind of hard to fake as scum. Did I pocket them or did they pocket me?

Low key buddying. And what even from Eira stream of consciousness couldn't be faked? Do I need to pull it up, because I don't know Eira but i agree that is a "stream of consciousness" I also think it means exactly nothing because their thoughts weren't deep enough to get me to think they were actively engaged high enough for it to be unlikely to come from scum. How couldn't a scum person read the thread and have that stream of consciousness. I don't see it at all. This is saying nothing while trying to say something.

Only thing i like about Aisa is her question to elements on why is bella above null.

[Firebringer]

why even are ya'll on Asia? Solway Firth is a sagacious wagon, like they havent even posted yet. Element coming in putting Asia under some line, and fire being like..... ultra focused on finding 'the bunny'......

while Asia has felt pretty much wholly green to me after a few one-liners exchanged.

this whole frogster/fire thing is cluttering up this early imo, it all seemed mostly to be i nterpersonal meta and as eira dont meta eira dont read.... much at least. I mean of the two i'd say i'd ay i feel worse on fire..... pretty much for abhorrent mood page 1. then again fire adores n_m so there's hope i gues >.>

SO meh today is a lazy day for me imma play monster train and endless legend. I think my vote's in a pretty good spot tbh........ firth's gotta pitch at least, and enchant. I'll trust Asia for now, no strong feelings on others buuut maybe..... Grib doees feel a bit more green than the mass? Like viewing things with an open yet uninformed mind. So yeah like way later gators

Like this is the "stream of consciousness" aisa says would be hard faked from scum.
And I read it and thought "this person skimmed and didn't think that intensely on posts" that was my take away from the stream of thought I got from reading the internal mindof Eira.

[Firebringer]

Kind of feel eiralax is town for being pocketed by the bunny so easily

[Firebringer]

I did register that Frog's interpretation was incorrect, but townies get stuff wrong all the time, no? If anything it made me want to TR him because it seemed like the kind of slightly odd reasoning that townies sometimes have.

I've since done a quick Frog meta check and I agree they are more LAMISTy than their completed town game I checked, and I think that's concerning. Also from their scum game I clearly haven't given them enough credit and they are capable of looking like they're doing things. PLUS now that I reread Grib's post and Frog's ISO I agree the amount of posts he has without a logical process seemingly backing them is also worrying, so, yeah, back in the nullbin.

Frog scum game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88987
Frog town game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89682

I should note I haven't done any in-depth study or anything, I just looked at the amount of words and vaguely skimmed a few posts from each game.

fully expected u to double down in this read.

u know surprised u didn't take the game from frog where they are trying to illustrate their scum game which idk - at first glance at least post count is very different from this game you linked. I am too lazy to do meta dives.

I think frog explicitly linked a poor game to be like "look i suck too much to be scum here" maybe it was to win some argument of "how i should know he is town" which is like what.

The more i think about it the more i want to do a dive. Not gonna happen until some weekend tho

[Firebringer]

I think the combination of low-effort post + Eira still throws out two or three reads is more consistent with town that scum. Town has nothing to lose by saying "I think X, Y, Z look green". I think it's a scary thing for scum to come into the game and take position so decisively.

don't think it wasn't such a decisive stance it couldn't be moved easily without anyone even bothering questioning it. So no, disagree.

[Firebringer]

grib has yet to display anything as a deep scum case. And no, not reconsidering it Shea. You worry me more with this case than Grib does.

[Firebringer]

im chill voting frogster

[Firebringer]

Anyway vote Aisa pls, if she is mafia, i claim credit for that, if she is not, i blame you all for being fools and following me.

excuse u. u get zero credit when ur not doing jack for this wagon besides being on it

[Firebringer]

So yes i get credit

Maybe even renowned as best player of game

alright fine.
enchant gets all the credit for flipping aisa.

[Firebringer]

you will get so much credit i will be accusing u of deep wolfing all game for it

[Firebringer]

so hows everyone doing tonight

[Firebringer]

because I am the one scumcasing Fire now. I

hawt

[Firebringer]

I actually can't tell if Fire is still sring me from these posts.

not sure why you think that would change my mind. You changing read was just noteworthy. You could be bussing or you could be jumping on someone you see as not going to be townie as you thought. I don't know.

[Firebringer]

You criticised my page 1-2 read for being "surface level". What else do you expect? It's not like I presented it as anything different.

You said my argument was shallow and did the "I expected better quality from you" thing. Hey, I mean, maybe you're right and there's some sort of difference from my usual play that I cannot perceive. But I actually feel like I am the same Aisa as ever, and behind the quick-and-dirty "I tend to townread lots of quick posting" I did stop, reassess, and decide that I still wanted to stand by that tell.

it wasn't just surface level. it made no sense and when you later justified it. You self contradicted yourself, which isn't scummy itself. It just looks like ur trying to justify a read that made no sense which frankly why as scum do u need to do and u just go with this route of saying its just early feelings.

also theres lots of stuff shea is throwing out about BBT and i skimmed and should address it but tbh im just not that into it.

[Firebringer]

spicy take

[Firebringer]

if this is your attempt at trying to get me to think ur town. ur failing btw

[Firebringer]

we both know u would say that as either alignment

[Firebringer]

i mean i like enchant, from the little we've interacted so : P I want an answer for why Enchant is on Asia, but i'm ok if folk aren't as active day ones..... the one doesn't cancel the other, and me liking enchant doesn't mean i'm not holding open the possibility that they're scum.... they're pretty much null to me, but i want them to peek in and change my mind >.>

I ask simply because my understanding of enchant's meta is that when they're not doing anything they're way more likely to be scum.

So it seemed a curious person to say that about in particular.

Not sure this is super important or anything but if you're town something to be aware of.

thats not really enchant meta.
enchant not doing anything just means not engaged

[Firebringer]

I don't think I contradicted myself. I genuinely did not notice or remember reading that Frog admitted to trying to look towny (remember it's arguable he said something else, but let's move on) and for you not to acknowledge that feels like you are misrepresenting me a bit.

i meant the contradiction between ur two townreads which were polar opposites of each other.
U read one person as town for being hyper active scumhunting.
and other person for "stream of concious" with zero sign of scumhunting besides vibe posting.
Maybe its not an obvious contradiction but to me it was glaring.

[Firebringer]

also ur reaction to my push isn't townie at all frankly. Ur just playing off it like its not a big deal or serious while trying to answer it like its genuine at same time. Half insert playfulness and half like trying to engage in it. Then u play around with the idea i am scum at a few points and it looks like ur fishing for who would support you if you moved in that direction.

So yeah aisa big scum bunny. Please vote her everyone.

[Firebringer]

i reread aisa posts and when i first saw "im scumcasing fire now" i thought that was a joke and then later she said she asked for peoples opinions on the case. So.....what am i missing or she referring to something else. I see no cases.

[Firebringer]

I actually can't tell if Fire is still sring me from these posts. But it doesn't matter, because I am the one scumcasing Fire now. In Soviet Russia, etc etc

Can someone talk to me about Fire? I think I've seen some townreads thrown around, but I'm not sure I've seen them explained and I feel like that would be helpful. Alternatively, what do people think of my case?

if post 420 is a case i fail to see u call me scum in it. It was more of an appeal to me to stop doing what i was doing than calling me scum with inserts of things like i don't understand what your doing or i am not trying to understand.

[Firebringer]

Fire's first 3 posts feel extrenely genuine and I have a hard time seeing them coming from scum.

boring reason to townread me. not even sure i think those 3 posts were that telling

[Firebringer]

More I think about it the more i don't like that townread on me.
But i can't agree with Shea so will ignore that.
Also shea is in my "examine later pile"

Wild game with so many scumreads to go through.

[Firebringer]

Naah reread BBT posts and think its town iso, fight with shea was townie.

BBT ur vote is wasted on Shea btw. No way you bring him down Day 1 unless you have the most articulate bulletproof case that convinces everyone its right. Until you bring that forward its gonna be a vanity vote, join me on aisa

[Firebringer]

ohh yeah and shea push on BBT is a nothing burger. I read it. Not impressed could go over point by point if anyone interested but mostly it amounts to pushing BBT for saying things that serve no purpose for alignment hunting (dismissing and poisoning well) - which i don't read that into the posts
like just this part

Generally people have a point for what they say in games of mafia. So when you start with "defensive much" it sets the tone for the whole post, given that "defensive" is generally used as an attack in mafia.

Like are you telling me town don't get accusatory or put people on the defensive with a lack of care to posts they making. I get im inclining to try to see this as BBT pov here cause im now town feeling him but its weird to gravitate that much on this. This is like calling a hill a mountain.

Like ur calling him disingenuous engaging the game. I could say same about you here. Cause ur points feel like a debate game of trying to score points especially when u constantly go "ur not engaging my point". Couldn't you have said "I think you missed my point, let me reiterate"

Ohhh look i found a point where you poisoned the well and disingeniously engaged the game because you didn't set the conversation up how i think it should be done to be townie. Like that is what you did with this BBT push

[Firebringer]

I wonder if i need to make a bullet point case for Aisa scum so at least someone outside of aisa can actually tell me where i am wrong. Because if i am wrong and maybe i am, i don't feel at this point i am inclined to read her posts in a favorable light. Gonna be honest with my bias there because I just see scumminess and playing devils advocate favorable to her is like not working for me.

If someone wants to tell me im wrong pls do so but i think ive gotten lack of engagement on my points.

[Firebringer]

Herpa derp *towns about*

This post doesnt really fit into my idea of what town frogster looks like.

What do you even envision frogster scum to look like tbh cause i don't townread him, i think i made that clear but im struggling with what scum frogster looks like.


Cause theres points here where i go why does frogster scum do X. Seems antithetical to trying to convince people he town. Yet he wants townreads.
Ive been going back and forth lately on this

[Firebringer]

If anything I would say that’s scum indicative for HPE. You’re saying that HPE is repeating thoughts by others but framing them in a helpful way. I think that rather points to HPE being scum and uncomfortable with making its own points.

Solway pointing out the thing ive been thinking for awhile. Would give town points for that but i don't give them out like hotcakes.

I don't get the HPE townreads.

I should get some more townreads. Who do i even have at this point just BBT and Grib?

[Firebringer]

ill throw Elements and Solway townreads too. Why not

[Firebringer]

why the hell is there even a wagon on elements.

[Firebringer]

aisa lets have a power session next time ur on. Since no one wants to engage me on my points on you, might as well sort it out and fight. Lets clog up this thread so no one can ignore my gr8 points

[Firebringer]

I also don't think anyone has really dealt with my argument that BBTs response specifically ignoring the important parts and focusing on the hook they can use to make me look discredited represents a scum arguing mindset and not a town one. All the responses have focused on saying that BBT would continue to respond to me like they did after I attacked them (which I don't agree with either, but w/e) but ignore the fact that my point starts before that.

i def responded to ur argument

[Firebringer]

BBT I'm willing to consider, though I'd probably want to do a reread and maybe find a case that is not your existing case. But I suppose doing all that is my problem, not yours.

why even ask for compromise wagon if u need to have a case or scumread.

And didn't u say BBT posting was bad awhile back.
I specifically thought u distanced urself from him or was that frogster.

[Firebringer]

my brain not working ill read this later

[Firebringer]

I should really really be digesting what shea was posting. But its friday and ive been running on like 3-4 hours of sleep each night this week. Very bad.

Anyways just want to say and i think i might too much in to a tunnely mode when i say this but post 572 felt like a post scum would make to over explain and justify moving to BBT. I feel like town response would been like TSQ has a point here, i am fine voting BBT.
Then voted

Now i want to say if she did THAT i might still see it in scummy manner. So maybe again im in tunnel mode.

[Firebringer]

Spoiler: Shea post

I didn't even use the buzzword of 'overdefensive' that you keep referencing. I said 'Defensive much'. This isn't even a big thing and is certainly not the bulk of what was my response to Eira so why are you focusing on that?

So this is fun, because what I'm doing here is a reaction test called "deliberately weak argument."

Which is where I make a post with a bunch of interaction points in it and one of them is "deliberately weak." I.e. a point thats easily refuted and responded to whereas the others require actual work or analysis.

The reason it is effective is a psychological difference in how town and scum tend to argue, where scum are generally arguing to win an argument and town are generally arguing to discern alignment. Town is very interested in engaging with the actual meat of a post and discussing where the differences lie whereas scum tend to be more interested in discerning alignment.

This is one of the more blatant fails of the deliberately weak argument test that I've ever seen. Obviously you didnt say over defensive, but I fail to see how that is relevant to the questions I asked you which you completely ignored in order to ridicule me for using the wrong turn of phrase.

anyway VOTE: BBT

okay to rephrase and as much as i can steel man this. You argument is that BBT is hyper focused on a specific part of your points that was weakest to win argument (i.e acting bad faith because scum want to win the argument). He isn't engaging in deliberate good faith by engaging your stronger points (what is he doing that is helpful for discerning alignment? why is he being dismissive against Eira),

So i don't feel like i was too much off the mark unless im missing something again here. I said you were scumreading for dismissing/poisoning well, which isn't much different than acting bad faith but also ur using his reaction to show that he isn't engaging in your points and deliberately picking the weakest argument to respond to.

And I just don't read this interaction like that. I read it like You posted a reaction to his posts about his usage of the word defensive and then having following up thoughts to what he was doing and he pointed out he didn't say that and in the context of what he did say it was followed up with question mark. I feel like im getting lawery here or w/e.

I don't see this as right way of looking at engagement. It looks like missing the grass for the mountains or w/e.

[Firebringer]

. I do think town!Frogster is all over the place in a way that makes some sense

need sources

[Firebringer]

this is just like...literally not what happened. Like its so much not what happened that I am questioning if you've even read any of it?

i feel like im being gaslight but idc anymore. Ill just take ur word for it that i don't even know what im talking about. too sleep deprived to make sense of a lot and takes me reading sentences 2-3 times to process

I think BBT is town but im not dying on some hill here so won't argue with u anymore on it. I don't scream and shout for townreads day 1 anymore. Its a waste of energy which im already lacking.

[Firebringer]

1) Scum are more likely to focus on winning the argument than discerning alignment.
2) In a post with multiple points to answer scum will be more likely to focus on the easiest points to dismiss in an attempt to discredit.
3) Town will tend to do the opposite.
4) BBT didn't address the rest of my points at all and focused exclusively on the deliberately weak one
5) Therefore BBT is more likely to be scum.

ugh why am i responding.
okay so i am disagreeing with point 2 and think almost anyone does that. Thats kind of what makes arguments go on forever as people will just find the easiest point to focus on, i agree with point 1 to a greater extend in that i think town when not put on the trial are more likely just trying to figure out what is going on instead of just looking better (winning argument for crowd) but i know a lot of situations when i argue with someone it will just be focusing on simple points that are kind of irrelevant to the bigger picture.

anyways i saw the interaction as u were applying pressure to BBT, he didn't care to engage with it and just commented u were off base from where u originally started and he obviously missed every other point because he didn't want to engage with any of else because that requires more effort/ or willingness to engage which he didn't have and i don't think that was scummy.

I could be reading it too favorably to BBT. W/e. We disagree but i obviously read your posts in very different light than maybe even BBT sees it so maybe im putting myself in BBT shoes too much instead of thinking what does BBT really think here.

If it was me and u getting into this argument instead of BBT i probably would have spent pages arguing with u anyways. So he def not me

[Firebringer]

well at least i feel less sus of you now then before. Good didn't want to have to try to lim you in this game. That would take too much effort

[Firebringer]

Someone quote a post they want me to respond to

Sheep me buddy, you owe me for voting me that one time when u were scum.
Now im calling in the u owe me card

[Firebringer]

Lean scum: HPE, BBT, Aisa

take out BBT and I agree with this right now

[Firebringer]

Eira/Frogster are my last scum right now.
Not really sus of anyone else.

[Firebringer]

I'd be shocked if all if grib/fire/tsq/frog are town, the thread is nearly unreadable

In what way is the game unreadable

[Firebringer]

Enchant is another one that I don't really like being a day one wagon .he gets pushed as mis lim bait but also, the things I town read enchant for tend to come later, like mech stuff, but then I've played a lot with them in the open queue. This doesn't feel like town enchant or town nm, honestly.

Eiralox could be scum. #hottake

I don't see as sure about aisa being town as I did,.but this isn't like the scum game they shared.

you are fence sitting alot bella. not that is unusual but it really doesn't make it easy to sort you

[Firebringer]

...Why would you sheep BBT's read on Bella if they're your top scumread?
VOTE: Solway Firth

is this where i call you out for opportunism or point out that ur not moving forward with that consensus wagon u just talked about a hot minute ago.

Also idk what solway is doing or w/e. But im not interested in jumping in on Solway today.

[Firebringer]

was it shea who pointed out that if BBT is scum Aisa is almost certainly a partner?
I feel that so strongly now even though i don't see BBT scum.

What is even going on. Her interactions with and talk of BBT is like dancing around.

[Firebringer]

btw if BBT flips scum Aisa's posts feel EXTREMELY bussy to me.

[Firebringer]

Idc if BBT is my top scumread, if he presents a good case as to why someone is town or scum and I agree with it I’ll sheep it

okay but no case has been presented yet and you immediately said you will sheep it with low certainty. if this is how you meant it, wouldnt you say "lets hear it then" instead of sheeping this.

Also i dont understand mindset of sheeping reads of your scumreads in general but thats a tangent and probably not very useful in this convo

[Firebringer]

Bella isn't as fence sitting as i originally thought reading that last post. I don't like how few reads she seems to have any committed to but i think thats a problem with a general lack of not being as engaged to read the thread and me seeing "the game is unreadable" and getting a little annoyed reading that.

Anyways would also support the HPE wagon right now.

[Firebringer]

So i read last few pages and got pretty much nothing to say on it.
seeing the VC not joining the other top wagons.

So i guess i continue waiting.

[Firebringer]

How do you feel about grib

no change since beginning of this game

[Firebringer]

not mafia just join me on aisa

[Firebringer]

seen nothing to make me pause to think i should reconsider it

[Firebringer]

im not. i don't have enough townreads to start relooking at them hard enough to question them that heavily.
Also ur been asking me to re-examine bbt quite a bit.
Solway is the point of conversation right now.
Now i should re-examine grib?

Its like the only townread i shouldn't take a look at is elements so far?

[Firebringer]

I’m good with it

[Firebringer]

How much time we got
I am phone posting

[Firebringer]

Has anyone posted that the solway wagon reeks

[Firebringer]

The reason I scum read you is I do not think you're trying to figure out people's alignment, you know, the baseline of what a townie is trying to do, and that's a pretty disingenuous point at the end there. As you said yourself you didn't even know who I was when you initiated that exchange.

Like I didn't even know who Shea was until he popped in at that time. Didn't catch the user title in their first post.

Disagree
He was def trying to sort first ten pages
I don’t like this solway push of his but he is def sorting
Maybe it’s surface level to u tho w/e didn’t I say I was gonna stop arguing u on townreads or just bbt

[Firebringer]

Grib I gotta ask tho
U say Shea is a scumread but ur tone and way u interact doesn’t read like u actually scumread
R u low confidence in it or intentionally treating him like this

[Firebringer]

U don’t have to treat them as confirmed scum
But like it looks like ur simultaneously trying to convince Shea he is wrong while calling him scum
Like u don’t see me doing that with Aisa or my scumreads yet I can still engage with her and talk to her at least in my opinion in good faith

[Firebringer]

Ur fine playing how u want but I don’t think u react to pressure well my friendo

[Firebringer]

If we aren’t limming aisa because everyone is like she town for reasons I don’t have time right now to like argue or even fully digest
I just ask we don’t lim townreads
Or do I don’t know I’m not gonna vote them tho

Can’t we lim HPE as compromise

[Firebringer]

My phone keeps logging me out
So annoying

Okay was saying we can also do frog but if frog flips town I feel it would be kind of waste?
Frog scum probably has all his Allie’s easily identifiable in his iso once we analyze it

[Firebringer]

Then I guess we at stand still

[Firebringer]

The claim without other reads is scummy

are u new

[Firebringer]

Thestatusquo died last night. He was a

Spoiler:

Town Macho Mason

HighPrincessErinys died last night. It was a

Spoiler:

Town Macho Mason

HPE killed by vigi
Shea by mafia.

Which implicates Grib/BBT

Although could just be mafia killing shea because he was not gonna be easy lim, and way too townread.

So I am giving up on my aisa read right now.

[Firebringer]

fuck it. ill sheep shea dead reads for once
VOTE: BBT

[Firebringer]

Welp, my reads are trash. I didn't want to think all of the people pinging me day one were town but yeah. My reads aren't normally that bad.

This post feels weird for town bella to make because when i read her iso she had stances but none of them were very strong and a few of them were actually.....shit one of her old posts is now pinging me in retrospect

[Firebringer]

(also, bbt, if you are snowing me like Lukewarm did I will be sad face)

FEELS WEIRD MAN

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Bellaphant
SHEA UR DEAD READS ON HOLD I MUST FOLLOW MY INSTINCTS

[Firebringer]

Welp, was vaguely hoping the scum read on TSQ would dissuade a shot there. That sucks.

are u being serious here grib. This seems like retroactive explanation

[Firebringer]

that moment where my only townread is Elements in this game.
Maybe if i pretend hard enough that i think aisa is town i will believe it.

[Firebringer]

Ill just go with enchant/aisa/grib are townie for reactions/posts after flips.
No need to think hard this early day 2.

[Firebringer]

@fire, I'm starting to think you just don't like way I post.

I really thought I had day one more sorted, there was deffo scum inElements/ hpe/tsq/frog/n_m/maybe fire.

I want to look again at

eir

, who was another slot I wavered on.

In what way am i just not liking way u post. it looked like ur pretending to townread bbt i want u to explain how he was 'snowing' u more.
And i don't see confidence in any of ur posts to have a solve ready and u just listed like half the playerbase and how does any of these flips change that presumption. If i gave at a list of half the playerlist one has to be scum, i would presume im right like almost all of the time. There could still be scum in me/frog/n_m and elements 2 out of 3 being green shouldn't have impact on this assessment at all especially with it being so broad.

Either ur not conveying ur thoughts more clearly on confidence here or ur bsing me pretending u were more certain of thigs than u were because well ur scum.

[Firebringer]

I was the last mason

we always masons together mate

[Firebringer]

if you want to go into more clearly how you felt you had this game more sorted and explain how you felt about all the slots preflip, i am openning to listening. I find a huge disconnect between that intro post this day to yesterday. You want me to do a deep dive and give you my analysis of how all your positions were and why i don't think u coming in here saying you had this game "more sorted" than prior and how i don't think that is connected to an actual mindset of where I think ur mind was really at?

Again, if ur town here. I don't think ur communicating ur thoughts very well for me to process ur solving/mindset.

Welp, my reads are trash. I didn't want to think all of the people pinging me day one were town but yeah. My reads aren't normally that bad.

Because this post is so quintessential a scum post. I have made this post dozens of times almost exactly like this. The mindset to do this is you have to come in next day and act like "ohhh noes I messed up some of my reads. I guess I will reanalyze them" which gives you more freedom to moving directions going into next day.

Anyways, first question again:
Why are you certain BBT is town and why was he "snowing" you, yesterday? I don't see BBT attempting to manipulate YOU in particular. What am I missing. I don't normally go with the joking "hey if ur playing me, ur doing really good right now" unless in my gut i feel like they are specifically playing to something to get ME in particular to read them in a certain way. Would like more of what was going on there that made u say that.

My assumption now really thinking/reading again is ur shocked HPE and Solway were town. I can somewhat follow ur HPE stuff and maybe im biased in these regards i saw solway town and HPE scum so its easier for me to agree with u gaining certainty on that. I even agreed that solway made weird posting.

You know what you might have a point that some of your posts I just flatly don't like because this

The claim without other reads is scummy, I can hammer?

Really irks me. Is this your actual thoughts? If I wanted to be extremely unfavorable I would argue that this was lazy way to justify the vote hammer. Asking permission is weird but given your personality i don't think it means anything.
How could you think not giving reads was scummy? Like....how? Not to mention solway said prior why he didn't get to do more which ignoring that it means literally nothing.

I almost just want to have a page and a half talk about just this line of thinking of X doesn't give reads when about to be hammered means scum. Like is that assuming he is newbie scum who doesn't want to spew anyones alignments? Thats only way i can assume we think its scummy and i don't know solway but maybe thats what u were thinking when you said it.

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Solway

** This is -1 **

Yeah I'm not feeling this VT claim, something major is off in Sol's tone these past few posts. I'll be trying my best to be back in 5 hours, hectic morning here.

Can you go more into what was "off in Sol's tone" I usually consider myself a tone reader. And nothing spike my interest from his last posts, it was his reasoning that was questionable to everyone.

I almost want to ask why a VT claim didn't feel right related to tone of posts, like how those two are related at all, i kind of think u were just going he isn't town there but feels like u felt this wasn't how a VT acts if i am reading too much into it

[Firebringer]

weird reframing.

my post speaks for itself. read it again

now can u reply to my question to u

[Firebringer]

weird reframing.

my post speaks for itself. read it again

now can u reply to my question to u

no it doesn't. you're atttacking bella on two posts that seem to have pretty much nothing to do with the gamestate. no idea why you'd focus on those two things instead og casing actual actions. feels very loose and illogical to me what you're saying so no, not on board

im questioning bella. I might be aggressive in my questioning but ur framing this like I am making some massive case when I am trying to build a read is stupid. How about read my post from the perspective that i am trying to better understand bella while making my thoughts aloud of what i think possible interpretation of posts are from what i read instead of like i am arguing that bella is confirmed scum or some shit u seem to think im doing here.

also congrats i agree with u my logic and reasoning is tenous right now at best. Its kind of why you ask the person questions so u can get a better idea if ur on a good track or not.

[Firebringer]

Solway's tone didn;t ping me with it's combativeness, but in the interludes between. i'm all on board with town getting angry at times, it was how Sol operated between those spurts that pinged me, as if trying to portray a certain emotional state to seem town while making sure to create enough room not be ellimed. in hindsight i read way too much into it but whatever, shit happens

did that have anything to do with the claim or why were those interspliced together with the tone comment.

[Firebringer]

i mean if ur voting them and attacking them on minor points that's more casing than readbuilding in my eyes but whatever. i just find it strange that there were 7/8 ppl voting Sol if we count N_M, and so basically 7 alive who were on them. You going left field after someone who didn't vote Sol and who almost hammered but didn't...... I mean if your reasoning was less tenious, i might have been ok with it but damn I just get didn't that post at all and i'll say so./

im voting bella because i scumread her, and i have some reasons. But my biggest reason is my instincts scream she is scum but that isn't a case. So i go into the posts that scream to me scum and try to dig into see whats there. If I was building a case I would make it more generalized and probably not ask or even make counter arguments within my own post to see it in more neutral lights.

and I think u missed my point about the hammer post (not like it matters because im not trying to convince u or anyone bella is scum right now) and like looked at the gamestate and this is where u got confused because u telling me im not looking at gamestate which im only looking at in narrow situations where i think its appropriate for my questions/reasoning. My point is never that bella "not hammer" post was scummy because SHE DIDNT HAMMER. it was because of the comment she would have hammered because not posting reads is 'scummy'. I think i even said her asking wasn't scummy because i think that was in line with personality NAI. Maybe your point here is that anyone on the wagon at the end should be looked at more suspiciously for voting on the wagon. Go do that analysis idc. I am looking into specifically bella of what she was thinking/doing at the same not what everyone else is thinking and why they are making votes/not doing on the wagon.

[Firebringer]

Solway Firth [7]: Frogsterking [595], Aisa [735], Grib [789], BlueBloodedToffee [843], HighPrincessErinys [844], Eiralox [958], Enchant [962]

if you want to do analysis on this gamestate push on the wagon. I am curious who ur thinking scum on it. Cause from ur perspective and assuming ru town I would have to be assuming scum are in the early voters. Unless u think enchant opportunistically hammered.

I actually don't think analyzing this wagon bears a lot of fruit. I think it was combination of things made it easy to join up which is why it take off and everyone had very similar enough reasons for joining so going into anyone of them will be like picking needles in haystack to figure out who is bullshiting to me.

[Firebringer]

Analysis of why people voted Solway
Frogster - Poor logic and reasoning "writes long wall posts". What can i even dig into with this one.
Aisa - My constant tunneling sees - Saw solway made a logically weird post (would sheep a scum read of his townread) and opportunistically jumped to join and press there.
Grib - Was having mixed feelings on a few people including Solway and checked VC before voting.
BBT - He was originally townreading then reval after Solway voted him. Then just voted when the wagon was gaining traction
Eira - Tone shifts and not believing claim
Enchant - Just hammered to end day, NAI.

[Firebringer]

im posting too much and not even making progress in anything. I am going to bed

[Firebringer]

V/LA friend came crashing over unexpectedly. Might not be here this weekend

[Firebringer]

BBT ur read change on aisa is pretty jarring

[Firebringer]

So my current townblock is myself, Eira, Grib, and Firebringer.

i don't want to be in ur dirty rabbit block

[Firebringer]

2. Firebringer looks townier by the day. I don't know that he would be this motivated to power solve the game if he were scum and he keeps showing some depth with his posts.
3. I was so jealous that Shea finally shook FB out of his tunnel on me from the grave when I couldn't do it all of Day 1. But FB is tunnelling me again so it's all good hehe <3

i am actually null reading u now but i can't help but see most of ur posts as scummy and the fact ur so unnaturally relaxed. Unfazed by anything just makes me think ur playing an act.

even ur effort seems to be distinctively ignore questioning/pushes on u and just keep solving which i don't think is outright scummy but is concerning.

[Firebringer]

Talk about how Grib's reaction gives you a town read?

seemed to be too inclined to talk about things that wasn't apparent that i think scum would keep to thesmelves. it was actually pretty strange to start talking about saying was shading shea to save em? Idk maybe its too self concious and is TMIng. It seems like too many things saying that scum wouldn't need to say that attracts attention

[Firebringer]

My approach, generally, is to find town: I've spoken about this a lot recently, even in the personality test. It's what I'm struggling with here: I think if could just lock town like, you, grib, fire, bbt and Eir that's a lot, but I'm really iffy on you and grib and bbt.

can we revisit ur townreads from say day 1. Like how did u get BBT town from ur interactions. I had skimmed it and like BBT basically never talked to u. One or two mentions and it wasn't some discussion i would say indicates anything to anyone.

So lets talk about it

[Firebringer]

i don't think we can communicate with one another.
i swear

[Firebringer]

no man, im done talking to u.
we can't communicate and im not here to bridge the dialogue.

i don't even care to figure out of ur scum or town in this engagement. I am annoyed and not engaging. Figure it out on ur own or call me scum.
Idc which.

[Firebringer]

well if ur not gonna vote me and try to get others to vote me. i don't see how i don't just "slide" away from whatever kind of questions this is.

i have two questions for u and honestly want the answers since ur not a dodger like me:
1) would me answering those questions help u in anyway on ur read on asia or me?
2) Why do you think this is the second time we have had a huge misunderstanding of what I said?

[Firebringer]

2. Firebringer looks townier by the day. I don't know that he would be this motivated to power solve the game if he were scum and he keeps showing some depth with his posts.
3. I was so jealous that Shea finally shook FB out of his tunnel on me from the grave when I couldn't do it all of Day 1. But FB is tunnelling me again so it's all good hehe <3

i am actually null reading u now but i can't help but see most of ur posts as scummy and the fact ur so unnaturally relaxed. Unfazed by anything just makes me think ur playing an act.

even ur effort seems to be distinctively ignore questioning/pushes on u and just keep solving which i don't think is outright scummy but is concerning.

i really don't know how else the question came up except for ur bias read on aisa. I have written so much on my aisa read so to take this post and twist it to be like im calling aisa scum because just is relaxed and solving.....
Like its very annoying to see.

[Firebringer]

i wonder if this is how bellaphant feels.
Except with her persistance on "i explained it and ive been very clear" ive read her iso like 5 times and its not anymore clear to me than the first read

[Firebringer]

I don't think the rest of Bella's ISO looks amazing, actually. I remember BBT saying she is more straightforward about her reads as town but she seems really waffly in the ISO.

stop agreeing with me u dirty rabbit

[Firebringer]

the more frog posts. the more it looks like he is throwing random shit at the wall to see what sticks.
i could see it as possible townie day 1. Stir shit up, get reactions for reads. Now it just looks like he has no committed reads and wants to see what he can get away with pushing.

[Firebringer]

In what way?

One minute: Aisa is my second strongest townread
Next minute: Aisa pushes you
Minute after: Well maybe i need to reconsider you.

And quite frankly...i don't want to defend aisa what am i saying. I don't think aisa read of u has ever been like bbt town. So its not frankly springing to me that this development came out of nowhere. Its weird ur saying it now given that. At what point does the behavior just become such a switch to scum

[Firebringer]

ugh tried gathering quotes and it broke.

let me seee....


aisa posts on bbt
day1
385 Indicates could be scum because interactions with Shea
400 explains how could be scum but then highlights another post indicating scumread
409 basically drops the read now seeing it more in line with a possible town perspective. basically null here?
449 expresses could be scum with a possible team.
572 votes bbt and hedges a whole lot in it.
day 2
1016 come back with basically saying wants bbt dead. essentially scumread. This development has to do only with flips thus far no explanation of change
1089 expresses doubt about scumread on bbt

and then we get to aisa making a case and diving into you. Like at no point has aisa townread u in this game. Its weird for you to flip when by all appearances you townread aisa for god knows what and aisa isn't acting frankly that much differently except now being less of a waffle on you

[Firebringer]

Meh, my town read on Aisa is kind of dying.

I'm starting to wonder if that early town read from Eira on Aisa is scum/scum but that seems absolutely wild.

welp if i read ur iso instead of focused on aisa. i would have found ur explanation faster than just being like "well thats a weird shift"

[Firebringer]

On the subject of Eira, if anyone can tell me a single stance he has this game outside of his town read on Aisa I'll be impressed.

Bellaphant town

[Firebringer]

I am starting to come around to BBT on Eiralax.
I kind of want to lim frog today though.

[Firebringer]

If you want to sort me talk to me, not about me.

if i had something i wanted to question u on. I would. What on earth r u doing and give me at least one coherent read u got solid foundation on that u won't jump away from in the next page

[Firebringer]

Frog, Eira, Elements all refusing to engage/discuss anything with me. If that's the scum team it would be simultaneously hilarious but also absolutely infuriating.

Elements is town buddy

[Firebringer]

Maybe my reasons are bad but I find the tone of her posts to be very consistent, and the flow of her humor and scumhunting comes off as very genuine to me.

ur the kind of person i fool when im scum

[Firebringer]

Fire and Elements aren't really scumreads yet, but at this point in the game they make me uneasy. Especially since with how narrow the suspect pool is (fmpov), at least one of them is likely mafia unless a lurker slot ends up flipping red.

how is elements in ur suspect pool again.

wait i don't need to question my townreads what am i doing.
and i don't care to change ur mind.

Can u just stop disagreeing with me. I don't want to fight u.

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Frogsterking

[Firebringer]

Bellaphant/Eiralax
and my "nullread" - aisa

Then not mafia coudl always be scum.

There i feel pretty good about all the scum being in the above names. Give me my scummy pls

[Firebringer]

Frogster is obviously in that list but since i voted him i thought it wasn't worth saying.

[Firebringer]

so im scum with BBT because i agree with him? And BBT is scum because.....bad reasoning.
This looks like just omgus reaction to me if i ever seen one.

[Firebringer]

god if my strat as scum was mislim aisa and bella who no one seems interested. I really decided to go with the hard path.

[Firebringer]

actually a few people voted bella but i think that was elements and not mafia and not mafia is just the neighborhood friendly shitposter. he would vote anyone if u asked nicely enough

[Firebringer]

Anyways who is ur townreads besides aisa and bella and why are they town

[Firebringer]

Anyways who is ur townreads besides aisa and bella and why are they town

Aisa and bella, full stop.

Alright then. I don't believe ur reads at all.
U remain in the scum pile.

[Firebringer]

ill grant u that this a very townie way to say fuck u ur wrong. But i don't even believe u think im scum so.
All i see is fake reads and an emotional outburst at me calling u scum.

Not gonna townread that garbage

[Firebringer]

too me the emotional outburst is even weirder because u hinted before u thought i was scum. So there should be no surprise or shock from ur pov. Like i imagine from town u perspective it would be like "i had a feeling he was scum and this just proved it" but instead ur like "wtf is going on this makes no sense :surprisepikachu: fire has to be scum with BBT. They are both full of shit and are scum together" it seems over the top and fake.

[Firebringer]

i wonder if ur doing this because i called out aisa for having a cool detached relaxed approach when i pushed her. Maybe in ur mind u think i think hyper defensive aggressive reactions are always town. Welp thats not how it works. Individual people are different. What is scummy for one isn't the other.

Good luck next time though.

[Firebringer]

Speaking of fake reads. I haven't addressed this and ive wanted. But I also don't believe aisa read on me either.
Her calling me town for the flimsiest of "ohh he is powersolving so hard can't be scum" is just easy way to not address me. Why do i say that? because think about it. The person ur calling powersolving and try harding is tunneling u. At some point u have to go in the internal monologue and say 'do they believe what they are saying or is this a cover'. Like continously think about it in the back of ur mind. I don't think she has done that. I believe she wants me on her good side, she wants to joke around and pretend we are town buds in a townblock.

And I think she wants to sweep all my concerns under the rug and pretend they don't exist. if she pretends long enough and hard enough that she says im town and not worried about my supposed incorrect read on her, ill eventually come around. Or better yet just shut up about her so as not to address it. Giving it attention will have more eyes on her. Not good. Ohh and everyone else thinks im town so why bother engaging with him on it. I think aisa played this so smart. Props to her. A tier scum play there.

Thats final thing im saying about aisa for awhile. Too many people are locked into townread on her for me to wake them up. And none of what im saying or articulating gets through the noise.

[Firebringer]

me and bbt best buds.
we do everything together.

[Firebringer]

not voting you right now, and why would i think its bad now besides no one is voting it.

and elements is town. stop trying to open that as a possibility.

[Firebringer]

gg, don't rely on claims to solve.

[Firebringer]

i missed u aisa in the dead thread. i wanted to scumread u more

[Firebringer]

instead of Fire because of your good reads and instincts to consider other's point of view and pull together a Towncore.

i was lighting u and eiralax up lol

[Firebringer]

Firebringer had the game solved, rip. I think Eira and Frog were his top scumreads. I hate that we let him down.

naah u played fine, role claims fucked everyone up.
should have ignored them and looked at what people were doing.

[Firebringer]

and i had some glaring gaps in reads namely bbt and aisa. if we had limmed frog day 2. i feel conf eirlax was gonna go down but i could see scenario bbt coasts to victory and me letting that happen
bella to a less extent was a gap for me i think

[Firebringer]

The four most disagreeable (the reverse/inverse of Agreeableness) players in this game by a landslide were Shea, myself, Fire and Eiralox, roughly in that order. Shea was killed N1 for being a TPR read and that left me, Eiralox and Fire as the players most willing to be a dick (in a tough-minded way) to push our point of view across.

N2, I was anticipating a gamestate where my slot would live or die based on Town's willingness to believe my claim and my own ability to sell it. I didn't want to have to sell my claim to a Town containing Fire who I knew would be willing to be a dick about pushing any inconsistencies in my claim. For example, imagine if Fire had been alive to heckle me during this moment:

def right i would have never believed ur claim the moment it was produced.