Mini Normal 2283 - Game Over!

[Grib]

If Bella is a partner, then BBT charged himself with protecting her. With the way he played, I don't think she's his partner. And the Firebringer kill would be hella weird after Bella openly shaded him at deadline for townreading you.

Do you think the Firebringer kill indicates me as scum more than Bella as scum?

Yes.

But I’m by no means locked onto that. Just need a healthy amount of discussion and different perspectives.

So I hard bus my partner and then kill of the only person that's town reading me?

You didn’t really hard bus, at least from my perspective. Not until it was inevitable between him and Frog. On Day 1 you said yourself you only voted BBT when TSQ did. And I don’t think it’s impossible for scum!you to kill Firebringer to validate his read.

[Grib]

Even without Firebringer, I’d say you still aren’t really anyone’s first elim choice. You have a pretty easygoing vibe that makes it hard to scumread you, imo.

[Grib]

Ugh all these questions I'm trying to eat :V

[Grib]

So when he said his Bella read was based on meta, that set off alarm bells. I’m leaning towards that fake read being used to pocket Bella, rather than shield her from pressure.

Why do you think it's more likely a pocket attempt?

I guess because the alternative is just bad play imo.

If BBT gave a meta townread on Bella with no substance when he is publicly vocal about hating meta reads, and Bella soft-townreads him and pokes and prods at non-BBT options when he's getting run up, then they just both get axed.

Okay maybe what I'm trying to say is that it feels way too easy.

[Grib]

Even without Firebringer, I’d say you still aren’t really anyone’s first elim choice. You have a pretty easygoing vibe that makes it hard to scumread you, imo.

This is the first time anyone has said it makes it hard to read you. I don't think I've played a game where I haven't been wagoned day 1. In at least half of my games I get voted out day 1 or 2

I mean I said pretty early on that despite the pressure, you kept doing your thing and I was like, ok that's probably a villager that doesn't give a shit.

[Grib]

I guess another reason I'm recently considering a scumread on you is it seems like you're playing differently now that BBT flipped. You're super gung-ho on gamesolving now but for the rest of the game it was drive-by votes and one-liners.

[Grib]

the problem I have with "way too easy" reasoning is that just proves it isn't
if that makes sense

I get what you're saying but it's pretty circular reasoning. I need something else to help break the wheel.

[Grib]

See, that Bella post right there. That's what I'm talking about.

Scum!Bella performing this sort of theater by highlighting a post that makes you -towny- to her and then questioning that read just feels like too many hoops to jump through, rather than this just coming from an unsure villager.

[Grib]

Firebringer WOAT for not putting his Elements townread into words, smh.

But I think I'm coming around.

[Grib]

worst of all time

[Grib]

I think I'm good with the posting tonight. I didn't expect to post at all but the opportunity to poke Elements was too tempting.

Gonna make myself log off for the night.

[Grib]

Meh, guess I'll be lazy today too. Happy Halloween all.

[Grib]

I have a theory I’m going to sit on for 24 hours or so, maybe 36. I just want to post this now for reference.

[Grib]

Eh, maybe tonight then? I just don’t want to jump the gun. And I feel like I’m just going to say what we’re all thinking anyways.

[Grib]

Once we kill the second mafia I’m not opposed to kicking NM out of the game next.

[Grib]

It wouldn’t really change anything for me at this point.

[Grib]

Which is hypocritical, but I’ll give a decent reason for it.

…

A little later!

[Grib]

Ok, I’ll say it. Frog is strategically lurking. I’ve never played with him before but his personality type doesn’t really mesh with “give up” as a villager.

[Grib]

Spoiler: Frog meta

Okay, now you feel almost too scummy to be scum.

Will you tell me about your playstyle? How you tend to handle the early- mid-, and late-game? Why do people who don't know you typically scumread you, and if someone had experience with you, what would they think of your posts so far?

Sorry for the rapid-fire questions, but you intrigue me.

Aside from the questions these are all the usual beats of a townie trying really hard to sort my slot. I've been described as too-scummy-to-be-scum sounding a lot. Like, a lot.

For your questions, I have very good reads early and hit scum D1 a lot. I mostly ask questions, set up a PoE and analyze isos. So my early play is very competent. Actually, I think my early game is very good.

The problem is that other than that I tend to play pretty bad.

I'd describe my mid game (or even immediately after setting up a PoE) play as: I freak out and go on tilt and throw the game.

I think my endgame play is messy too because I can figure out who did it by then but my tilt/paranoia/tinfoil are bad for closing out games.

My adaptation recently has been to try and play to my strengths and call multiple scum D1 and push one of them through so I get killed N1 and aren't around to throw the game later.

As for why I think I'm constantly scum read by tone, I have a theory that people who are introverted (low happiness, low assertiveness), neurotic (in my case anxious, angry, vulnerable) and very disagreeable (competitive, suspicious of others) are likely to be scum read by tone when Town. I mostly believe this because I realized that other players who have a similar temperament are frequently getting pushed as scum by strangers in their games as well.

Now with that said, what about you, Grib? What is your playstyle like in the early, mid and late game, and do you often get scum read for your tone as Town?

There is a very obvious lack of tilt here, or passion, or urgency. If Frog is town here.

[Grib]

Oops.

I was gonna say “if Frog is town here, I’m slapping my next vote on NM and calling it a day” but that seemed too bitchy so I backspaced. Didn’t backspace far enough.

[Grib]

Anyway, he knows there’s no world where we kill anyone -he- wants us to kill this phase. So he’s eliminating any further incriminating interactions.

In my opinion.

[Grib]

Ha, figures you’d pop up right after I post that.

[Grib]

In any case, I do agree that if you’re town, Elements is very likely scum.

[Grib]

Dramatic, yes. Serious, no.

I did say I was originally going to wait until tonight to post my “Frog is lurking” theory. Then I got bored and posted it. If you want to take the spotlight, please do.

[Grib]

Frog, what makes you think the Fire kill was specifically a TPR hunt? Besides the fact that scum are by default always going to kill rolereads, unless a specific villager’s death benefits them.

[Grib]

Ok, I didn’t really get much out of that flurry of posts. I think Frog made some ok points.

I might present a case for both scum!Frog and scum!Elements and see what makes the most sense, at least based on BBT interactions and general gameflow.

[Grib]

In the meantime, I kind of wish Bella/Aisa/Eira would contribute a little bit more this phase. Especially on who they want to eliminate. I know it seems like Frog is a done deal but I think it’s still worth discussing.

[Grib]

I thought his point that townreading Enchant so strongly is something scum mostly do was pretty funny.

I also thought that "yes because the Fire kill was a TPR hunt. This is a misdirection because at the time the kill was made there was no reason for Elements to believe they would be pushed hard today or that they would need a pocket alive to defend them" was, in all fairness, a logical point.

[Grib]

That's it, really, so. Not fantastic.

I really don't buy that anyone thinks there's an investigative role lurking about. My first thought after the BBT flip with Firebringer's strong town!Elements read was that he was power-wolfing.

[Grib]

Elements, wanna vote Frog?

no

This post haunts me.

[Grib]

And the point was more about Elements' claim that killing Fire would look bad for her, or lower her odds of winning.

[Grib]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but there is a tiny chance that Frog and Elements are bussing here. If Frog is scum, his best bet is getting his partner safely to endgame, and the only way I see that happening is 1) limit interactions as much as possible, or 2) hard bus/distance.

I almost don't even want to think of what world we're in if Frog flips town.

I'm just trying to think of who fits as the third mafia besides NM. I don't reeeally think it's Enchant, but that's obviously hard to judge. And I'm still townreading Eira/Bella/Aisa, although it's been a pretty slow day content-wise and I'm getting paranoid at the slight decrease in willingness to gamesolve. Aisa's attempts are noted and appreciated.

Eira just feels like he's perpetually waking up from a long nap, dropping a post, and and falling back asleep again.

[Grib]

0 scum in [Eira, Bella, Aisa]
0-1 scum in [NM, Enchant], leaning more towards NM being the potential mafia
1-2 scum in [Elements, Frog]

If any of my townreads feel iffy about each other, I'd really like to talk that out.

[Grib]

I really liked the way Elements interacted with me when we voted each other. It's hard for me to justify having her in my scumpool but I just don't know what I'm missing if one of my townreads is wrong.

[Grib]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Elements

[Grib]

Ugh, last mafia is either NM or I’m wrong somewhere else. Don’t think it’s Aisa, at least.

[Grib]

I would love a third Mason tbh.

[Grib]

I’m glad we’re getting the claim now and not in endgame when scum can counterclaim for the win.

[Grib]

I do not believe the doctor claim

Rationale?

[Grib]

Sure, but crumbing Doctor on Day 1 and then flipping two macho Masons would be a hell of a coincidence.

[Grib]

I’d really hate it if the macho modifier was a red herring, but I guess if there’s another TPR out there they should claim. The setup cannot be Masons/Doc/Vig/+another.

Kind of doubt it tho.

[Grib]

Cannot be protected.

[Grib]

NM is a very meh elim.

[Grib]

Does scum!Enchant really pretend not to know what macho means? lol

[Grib]

Man Elements really just does not feel like scum.

I’m bad.

[Grib]

UNVOTE:

God I feel like I need to reread the whole game.

[Grib]

Why on mobile does the first post of a page have smaller text?

It goes away after a little bit.

[Grib]

I think if Bella hasn’t made a substantial post by the time I get off work I’m just gonna snap vote her. She and Eira are coasting this phase.

[Grib]

But I will be reading ISOs when I get home. We have til Saturday evening EST I believe.

[Grib]

Y’all.

[Grib]

I thought Enchant was the vig so townlean there slightly revoked.

[Grib]

Eira/NM anyone?

[Grib]

Grib, you still against voting NM today?

Fucking nope.

[Grib]

I’m so glad this happened before I would’ve scrutinized Bella’s ISO later today.

[Grib]

VOTE: NM

[Grib]

For me it’s like, NM > Eira, Enchant > Elements

The sudden burst of activity from Elements this phase is sus but overall I don’t think it’s scummy :V

Aisa’s reaction here is good I think.

[Grib]

Why is my activity sus?

We went over this.

lifeless one-liners > BBT flip > gamesolving

[Grib]

I thought Enchant was the vig so townlean there slightly revoked.

Why would you think that

I felt it in your aura.

And your reaction to the Mason flips just felt very signal-y.

[Grib]

Three Masons, Vig, Doc. Five confirmed town in a twelve-person game? Is that common or even reasonable?

[Grib]

Thirteen, my bad.

Yeah there’s no way that half of the game’s villagers are TPRs.

[Grib]

NM could be an Innocent Child and I think he’d still end up getting himself elimmed.

[Grib]

Hardclaim WOAT villager.

[Grib]

The only way NM is ever a Mason is if Bella is lying and scum have an extra kill. I scanned the Normal wiki page and that doesn’t seem like a possibility.

[Grib]

That is a very specific role I’ve never even heard of.

[Grib]

It was the same as my internal monologue.

[Grib]

Having more than four TPRs in a small game is already pretty weird for me to imagine, but five? With three of them being townfirmed to each other? That is completely crazy.

[Grib]

I guess I’ll acknowledge that those Shea posts do make it sound possible. I just personally think three Masons in this game is fucking weird, and it feels very lose-lose to me. Either kill NM and he flips Mason (Grib, you moron, you killed a claimed Mason!) or don’t kill him and he ends up being mafia (Grib, you moron, there’s no room for a third Mason in this setup!)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Eiralox

Might as well since nothing’s decided.

[Grib]

Prodding not_mafia and Frogsterking

Third Prod of Doom for NM. Oof.

This is HPE's only mention of NM.

Ehhhhhhhhhh

[Grib]

Hi Eira. You have a lot of content to respond to.

[Grib]

Wait how does it make him less likely? Because HPE didn’t really mention him at all?

[Grib]

Hi Eira. You have a lot of content to respond to.

no. until your pivot comes with a case i won't be doing much talking.

lol, ok then.

[Grib]

Wait how does it make him less likely? Because HPE didn’t really mention him at all?

Yes, I would guess that if HPE and NM were masons together, HPE would have talked about that slot a bit more. Although ISOing HPE, it doesn't talk about TSQ that much either, except when it agrees with some of TSQ's point. And maybe the fact that HPE felt the need to say "third prod of doom" means something?

Ugh

I mean, the slots are totally different. TSQ was active, NM could safely not be talked about. I thought the same, that maybe HPE acknowledging the third prod was like, a teeny tiny bit of a TMI slip if you squint?

Could also just be massively reading into nothing.

[Grib]

Hi Eira. You have a lot of content to respond to.

no. until your pivot comes with a case i won't be doing much talking.

This is not a town response, by the way. I could see Eira being hostile towards me specifically, but now he's taking the game hostage by choosing not to participate.

-

I used a combo generator or whatever it's called to sort all living players (except me) into potential scumteams of two. I took out combinations that contained Frog, Bella, and Aisa (even though Aisa isn't a PR claim, she's just my strongest townread).

Thought about taking out NM teams in case the claim is real, but I left them in just in case.

Elements/Enchant
Elements/Eira
Enchant/Eira
(Elements/NM)
(Enchant/NM)
(NM/Eira)

Kill everyone whose name starts with E; win. Unless NM is scum, then we all just suck. I'd like to start with Eiralox, unless I believe his actions to be town-motivated and change my mind.

[Grib]

This really isn't the time to be cryptic.

You need to play the game to help your team. Don't sit in a corner to spite me.

[Grib]

Ok. Bella has an idea of you. She hasn't mentioned you at all this phase, so it has nothing to do with the role reveals. What are you talking about?

[Grib]

Nah.

Somebody else talk to Eira.

[Grib]

Play mafia, not mindgames. Please.

[Grib]

You literally have a caseless vote on me, so nyeh.

[Grib]

Or well. You did.

[Grib]

I’m gonna sleep and when I wake up I want this game to be easy.

[Grib]

So I've looked at a few of BBT's scum games and have noticed something:

Newbie 2099 - Calls partner scum and votes them
Newbie 2096 - Calls partner scum and votes them
Mini Normal 2016 - Buddy1: Starts with not much of a read then ends up bussing, Buddy2: Scum reads early and votes

BBT likes to bus!
BBT has voted all of Frog/NM/

Eira

and pushed Frog yesterday.
It all points to Frog!scum.

Above the line
Aisa
Bella

Eira

The Line ------------
Enchant
Grib
NM
Below the line
<dramatic gap>
Frog

Elements, does it make sense to have that strong of a townread on Eira here? I don’t know what’s going on with Frog, but from where I’m sitting and with the information available to me, he is objectively the least likely of those three to be scum with BBT.

[Grib]

I only have ~one reason to doubt that BBT’s push on Eira was a bus (without rereading), and I want to see if you share that reason or if you’re thinking of something else.

[Grib]

Unvoting me while goading others to vote me is pretty cowardly.

He’s probably voting Eira because Eira won’t cooperate. And has also has basically no interest in finding mafia, at least from what I can see.

[Grib]

You have Eira’s support.

Also I asked you a question in 1814, if you missed it.

[Grib]

Can you tell me why or is it mechanical?

[Grib]

UNVOTE:

Ok, the whole point of a massclaim is to see if scum is fakeclaiming something. If Eira is some sort of power role, it needs to be on the table. Especially if anyone is entertaining the idea of a third Mason.

[Grib]

Eira interrupted the popcorn claim. Aisa is the only vanilla claim so far.

[Grib]

This is so unbelievably frustrating. The game feels like it's completely frozen, we're indecisive, and deadline is a little over a day away. There aren't even any competing wagons. With all the claims floating around, the only question marks are the slots that have barely participated, which is a terrible position to be in.

I'm also VT. Can we please push this along.

[Grib]

VOTE: Eiralox

This is purely for refusing to claim. At this point I have no idea whom I want to eliminate slash believe to be mafia, and Eiralox is partially why. My most likely world is Elements/Eiralox, but I'm lacking in information that does exist and would allow me to either push it or rescind it, but isn't being shared at a time that warrants it.

[Grib]

See: my panic start of day two where I vigged a mason.

Bella, can you quote the panic post? I can't find it.

[Grib]

Ok.

I had to check if scum JOATs with a vig shot were considered normal, and they're not.

Bella's still good.

[Grib]

Pain

[Grib]

I low-key want to die so I won’t have to deal with the inevitable clusterfuck that Day 4 will be.

[Grib]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Enchant

[Grib]

I don’t think you are. PoE just makes it really hard for me to see two mafia elsewhere. What does the game look like if we’re both town? And can you answer Aisa, because I have the same question.

[Grib]

:/

[Grib]

I'm not enjoying this game at all tbh, but that's more because it just feels like no matter how I flip my reads, they're all wrong somehow. I think I was better off not playing mafia.

[Grib]

But let's explore some worlds? Say you and I are spontaneous ICs. That leaves:

Aisa
Eiralox
Bellaphant
Enchant
NM
Frog

Bella is the Vig. I have serious doubts about Eira, but Bella supports him, and NM also spoke up for him. I'm making a big assumption there but it seems like Eira might be a townfirmable role? I dunno.

Aisa
Enchant
NM
Frog

I'm going to leave this as our scum pool, to be as generous with our options as possible. There are some factors at play (I think Aisa is town, NM could go either way, Frog claimed a town role), but assuming both of us to be town, this is what we have to work with.

[Grib]

Regardless of both of our alignments, there is guaranteed to be at least one scum in that list, unless the team is exactly Grib/Eira or Elements/Eira, so that seems to be the best place to start.

[Grib]

Aisa Enchant
Aisa NM
Aisa Frog
Enchant NM
Enchant Frog
NM Frog

And then these are all possible teams that include neither of us, Bella, or Eira.

[Grib]

Bella, can you please give a percentage of how likely Eira is to be town? Because if it's not 100% on the dot, then I need a claim. If it's 100%, I'll let it go.

[Grib]

What the fuck.

[Grib]

I want to say yes, assuming that BBT was the only mafia goon.

Problem is if there's a roleblocker then nothing happens.

[Grib]

Wait, so why didn't you at least fire at anyone Night 2? After a goon flipped?

[Grib]

So that people don't have to look it up:

Complex is a role modifier that modifies the way in which an active action is used; it causes the action to fail, as though it were roleblocked, when used against a player who is vanilla. In other words, only power roles will be affected by a Complex action; other players are too simple to be worth your while.

[Grib]

Ok, I want to completely eliminate all tinfoil worlds where Frog is scum, because town having macho Masons and a Vig that can ONLY kill power roles with no Doctor is a stupid setup and if we lose to it then whatever.

[Grib]

So that people don't have to look it up:

Complex is a role modifier that modifies the way in which an active action is used; it causes the action to fail, as though it were roleblocked, when used against a player who is vanilla. In other words, only power roles will be affected by a Complex action; other players are too simple to be worth your while.

Actually, would you even be able to tell the difference between a roleblocked result and a vanilla result?

[Grib]

What are the odds that this team has two mafia goons?

Vig/Doc/Masons/whatever Eira might be vs goon/goon/???

[Grib]

A normal game?

If so, I hate this website.

[Grib]

Yeah, it's a "normal" modifier. Gross.

[Grib]

Think I'm gonna take a break from the thread. I'll check in tonight, if there's anything interesting.

[Grib]

Not much going on I see, but I'm glad peace has been restored.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NM

[Grib]

Pretty dissatisfied with this phase all around tbh, but it is what it is.

[Grib]

I am legitimately sorry you put that much effort into casing me.

[Grib]

I don’t even really know how to respond to it. “All the scuminess I felt from other players actually originated from Grib because he was really sneaky and subtle about it”? That’s a pretty big reach.

Also, I hate endgaming as scum with a passion. I’d rather be bussed to make my partners look good. I leveraged my “towncred” for the BBT vote exactly one time, and that was to get Elements to think about my alignment. I don’t think I’ve done anything that suggests I’m operating with a scum agenda; I’ve spent the entire phase just trying to get people to talk.

That’s about all I have to say about that unless you can condense anything in there to shorter questions.

[Grib]

I guess another comment I have is that if you had died instead of BBT, I’m fairly certain a Grib/BBT/??? would’ve gotten away with it. There was a lot of support for your death, and despite how close it was I don’t think you were even around to claim.

[Grib]

Sure wish I could evaluate how likely a third Mason is in this setup. Too bad we didn’t massclaim or anything.

[Grib]

If Bella is a town Vig, and Frog is a town Doctor, and Eira is a town whatever the fuck, and NM is a town Mason, then all of the mafia are in Grib/Aisa/Elements/Enchant. Period. I don’t know about anyone else, maybe Bella has her reasons, but whether or not I believe in Mason!NM hinges on Eira’s claim, which he isn’t giving, so it’s kind of out of my hands.

[Grib]

I basically have a hard time caring how this elim goes. Sorry.

[Grib]

Like if he isn’t going to claim and Bella knows something, the least she could do is chime in about what NM might be. If she still wants to kill him, then I will take it to mean she doesn’t think he can actually be a Mason.

[Grib]

Difference being.

NM can be shot.
Grib no.

You specifically think I’m a mafia goon then? If you think I’m scum, why can’t I be a lying power role?

[Grib]

Might be a TMI slip but I’ll let other people evaluate.

[Grib]

It sounds to be like he knows I’m vanilla vOv

[Grib]

Eiraaaa omg to cite Bella, if you are scum I will be sad face. Anyway, I'm taking that post to mean you don't CC any of the claims?

no counterclaims. bella has an idea about me.

Erias town.

[Grib]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Enchant

I’m parking here for now.

[Grib]

If Eira’s role is not explicitly and 100% a town role, then why is he exempt from the massclaim? I literally cannot comprehend this.

[Grib]

Threat of death usually works.

If a TPR lets themselves be eliminated instead of claiming, that is called gamethrowing. Maybe he thinks his role is vital to breaking the game, but how can it if Bella isn’t even sure?

I don’t mean to be harsh but from a vanilla perspective, this is completely nonsensical.

[Grib]

Again, if all of the claimed power is true and town, including NM, then (excluding myself this time) the last two mafia are among Aisa/Elements/Enchant. That is crazy to me.

[Grib]

No.

[Grib]

The whole point is that your unwillingness to claim when we’re more than likely hunting for scum power is very, very scummy. Do you really not see that?

[Grib]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Eiralox

I asked me.

[Grib]

This looks like a mafia PR squirming and mad they can’t get away with a vague power soft. He can’t claim vanilla because whatever he did, Bella and maybe NM know about it.

[Grib]

You know what, I’m hard committing. My vote is not moving, and nobody can tell me it isn’t justified.

[Grib]

Hell, I’ll commit to killing Enchant next phase. What a terrible take and terrible soft defense of Eiralox’s antitown behavior.

[Grib]

For the record, Eira, this isn’t personal. If I’m being too harsh I apologize. But your actions are hella questionable and I will attack them with no remorse.

You’re pretty cool tho.

[Grib]

I am voting for Eiralox and will continue to do so because I think he’s a scum PR and was hoping the Bella soft would completely dissuade pressure and accountability.

I will only consider moving it with a full claim, along with all actions taken and the reasoning for doing so.

[Grib]

If all of Elements/Enchant/Eiralox are town then mafia hella deserve this win. I have no idea what they’d have to be smoking to all be villagers here.

[Grib]

I think I’m at E-1

Frog, Enchant, Eiralox, Elements are voting now

[Grib]

Elements scummy for goading a hammer.

[Grib]

I believe all of the mafia are in the three names I just listed. If Aisa is scum she can hammer me for free. I won’t be mad about losing to her.

gg

[Grib]

Frog isn’t here, two mafia are voting me, and one villager is on crack, so I won’t bother asking for an invite. But I’d really prefer to keep this discussion going, so mafia can’t force Night and Eira gets off for free.

[Grib]

Why don’t you unvote? Am I crazy?

[Grib]

You’re entertaining Eira/Enchant and prefer me alive to NM next phase but you were just pushing for Aisa to hammer me.

[Grib]

This town has no coherence and is going to lose. Christ.

[Grib]

Five votes is definitely a hammer, and you were the fourth vote on me.

[Grib]

Oh.

My bad then.

[Grib]

Ok, you said “Eira unvote” which I thought was you asking him to unvote me.

[Grib]

VOTE: NM
It's Eira/NM and they're just play PR claims off each other

Decent theory. It just makes my skin crawl because that would mean Enchant is town. Gag.

[Grib]

Keeping my vote on Eira, but I’ll switch to NM if that ends up being the wagon.

[Grib]

You have Frog twice.

[Grib]

I don’t need anymore posts from Eiralox, except a claim. Everything else is just an excuse.

[Grib]

Actually, Eiralox at the very least isn’t a Roleblocker. Unless he has some stupid modifier like, your target gets told that you visited them.

Bella, which Night did Eira target you?

[Grib]

Ok that actually sounds decent.

[Grib]

Should we no lim then? I don’t want to kill anyone else for the sake of it.

[Grib]

I guess worst case scenario the lim is a miss, Bella kills town!NM and mafia kill someone else. That puts us at 3v 2m.

[Grib]

Elements obvious Grib partner for also considering no elim.

[Grib]

Also, from the way it sounds, we’re trying to use the vig shot in place of an elim.

[Grib]

K.

[Grib]

Cannot comprehend that.

[Grib]

I dunno lol. Good luck town?

[Grib]

I’m throwing away all my reads. Nobody try to divine the mafia team based on my posts.

[Grib]

You literally just said:

Also, from the way it sounds, we’re trying to use the vig shot in place of an elim.

Yeah, the thing is, if the outcomes are either that N_M dies to the vig shot, or we elim him tomorrow, then why not just elim him today?

[Grib]

Bella should shoot Eiralox. I cannot see a world where he is town. Can you?

[Grib]

It’s pretty insulting to be voted over the literal do-nothing slot, while saying you don’t even think I’m mafia. I almost want to just log off and check how this game ends two weeks or so from now.

[Grib]

So you followed my suggestion to threaten to vote out Eiralox unless he claims. He squirmed and made excuses and left, which is pretty fucking fishy, and…you did the exact thing you said was a bad idea, which is pretend to threaten to kill him. How do you justify that?

[Grib]

It’s frustrating to feel like I have the only concrete reason to be voting anyone, whereas the votes on me are

- Frog, because of some psychological bullshit
- Enchant, who is bad
- Aisa, because lol mechanics

[Grib]

I don’t mind dying that much, but if all the reasons for killing me are bad, how do you expect to analyze those votes?

[Grib]

Then at least unvote me to prevent a hammer from the other players.

[Grib]

If I die then we’re going to drag this bitch out until time is up.

[Grib]

What are you talking about.

[Grib]

How am I forcing a no lim? I asked Aisa to unvote so I could continue to engage without dying.

[Grib]

Am I crazy or is Enchant literally just making shit up.

[Grib]

And then I got spooked and unvoted.

Why?

[Grib]

Tell me why you aren't willing to risk Eiralox's life when he is being antitown, avoiding committing to a claim, making up excuses, lashing out, and not giving reasons for scumreads despite being all too happy to vote me for FoS'ing him. Tell me why.

[Grib]

I think he's presenting an *interpretation* that isn't necessarily true

Yeah, the word for that is lying. There is nowhere to interpret that I'm *forcing* a no-elim. I don't even know how that would be possible, given my vote isn't very influential here, and I can't make people do anything they don't want to.

[Grib]

ughhhhhh people dancing around Eira is driving me up the wall

[Grib]

Tell me why you aren't willing to risk Eiralox's life when he is being antitown, avoiding committing to a claim, making up excuses, lashing out, and not giving reasons for scumreads despite being all too happy to vote me for FoS'ing him. Tell me why.

I don't care what happens, Aisa needs to answer this next phase. Don't let her skip out on it.

[Grib]

I am hoping they have a town reason for not claiming

This is not the time to hide their role. We're trying to make mechanical plans with a big fat mechanical question mark. How does that help town?

[Grib]

It also doesn't help for him to vote/yell at anyone who questions him and run away from the thread.

[Grib]

Fine. Vote NM shoot Eira.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NM

Yes this is also a self-pres vote.

[Grib]

I cannot read Aisa. The whole last page was just craziness.

[Grib]

Not if he hammers first.

[Grib]

Doctors can't be mafia in a Normal.

[Grib]

No wait, I lied, they can. Fuck.

[Grib]

Uhhhh I feel like I had some sort of epiphany that made mafia Doctor unlikely here but I can't recall it at all.

[Grib]

Oh right, I thought a mafia Doctor would only make sense if the other two mafia were also both PRs. Since the goon can't be shot by the Vig.

[Grib]

I mean I'm clearly illiterate when it comes to setup spec, so. Shrug.

[Grib]

Most of the roles I'm looking at are quite useless.

[Grib]

Mafia can't block both Frog and Bella. Frog protects Bella, Bella at least shoots someone. She should state her target and not stray from it in case she dies.

[Grib]

Not really a fan of interacting with drunk posters, so I'm here on the sidelines.

[Grib]

I wish it was me and Grib

<3

[Grib]

This is interesting.

[Grib]

Well, we know we aren't in Mason!NM mafia!Frog world.

[Grib]

17 minutes.

[Grib]

We're at an impasse. Somehow.

[Grib]

Given how easy this lim should be in theory, and how easy it would be to dodge responsibility for (hammering) it, I'm genuinely surprised it's at a standstill. Either both mafia are already voting it, or they're just offline and letting town eat itself.

[Grib]

Kill grub imo

It's NM or no lim. Make your choice.

[Grib]

The fact that some people just don't show up to deadline without warning or lurk it out is pretty unfortunate.

[Grib]

NM is at E-1

Please tell us whom you're shooting.

[Grib]

Five minutes.