Dogs Vs. Cats Mafia | Endgame
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- Kazyan
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Kazyan Goon
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VOTE: xofelf for breaking RVS with defensiveness instead, idk, more animalposting.
Toadette is a townread for me, and SirCakez leans town (but is also saying a lot of things that I like from a meta-perspective, so I might be biased in saying "yup that's town"). The rest of you guys honestly blend together due to the ten pages of hyperposting overnight, except for Lion I guess.- Kazyan
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Everyone's just joshing around at the moment, so there is no one to capture anyone's hearts. I'll probably review the unwnd/Fark thing later, but for today, this game has an incredibly low content-to-pages ratio and it's not actually worth the effort to try to distill anything out of it.In post 456, Chara wrote:i also thought unwnd's quick defense was kind of weird but the background behind it wasn't bad, not so much as "i also think Ivy is towny from that" but "this feels like a normal opinion", also so far this game no one but Fire has captured my heart (read: felt like their game is going a place)- Kazyan
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True; I'm just not looking forward to reviewing 20 pages of dogposting and multiple layers of irony.In post 477, Chara wrote:trying to get workable content out of the fluff is the quickest way to get out of that phase of the game, though.
Is this a gut read, or do you have a specific thing that isn't right?In post 380, unwnd wrote:Sort of
Something doesn't seem right about Fark, the votes on xof aren't terrible but it's a early D1 wagon that doesn't need my added vote.- Kazyan
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Knowing that several people have expressed being overwhelmed by the amount of posting, do we think that it would be in scum's best interest to continue adding fluff, or would they prefer to stay on the sidelines? They'd probably be of split opinion on that, come to think of it, so we could expect some scum to be quiet and some to be very fluffy.
P-edit: Flow Trap, do you have a reason behind the naked vote?- Kazyan
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This post strikes me as a town mindset.In post 502, Andante wrote:
lol I mean, I could've told you, if we're serious for 1 minute. Anya is most likely town, what scum would come in here trying to be the opposition... I've had her in my town pool for a while lolIn post 500, flow trap wrote:Town- Kazyan
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Many ISOs to review to figure out who said they hate this content then. Here gooooesIn post 509, Andante wrote:I think at least 1 scum is in the "I hate all this content" cause scum has to follow along with it, town can skim, say they won't back read, so what, ask someone for a TLDR later, like, yeah
Pro-posting:
- Andante
- Nero
- Flow Trap
- unwnd
- Chara
Anti-posting:
- SirCakez
- Beeboy?
- Kazyan
More later.
Refusing to give a motivation for a vote. Yikes. VOTE: flow trapIn post 515, flow trap wrote:
NoIn post 507, Dwlee99 wrote:Anyone on the Toadette wagon wanna talk about it?- Kazyan
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I mean, yeah? It's a piece of information I can put together, even if it's not going to slam-dunk solve the game.In post 539, Chara wrote:not really sure of the point of 526, is the idea that there's one scum in the antiposting camp worth making a list to sort out all the players? and more than that is Andante's idea one that holds water?
pedit: please do, i don't do well under the pressure of having to do it myself. :>- Kazyan
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I understand the anti-Beeboy sentimnet, but since we're less than 24 hours out from the start of the game, I'm not comfortable driving that wagon yet. I feel like it's in our best interest to do that to win the game, but it makes me squicky to lean that hard into demanding that everyone be here always--this is a game where the purpose of long day phases is that youdohave time.
Anyway:
Pro-Posting:
- Anya
- Firebringer
- Andante
- Nero
- Flow Trap
- unwnd
- Chara
- Pooky? (commented on the page count, but joined the fluffiness)
- Shiro ("I am caught up")
- Murdercat (planned absence, but promised to be very present)
Ambiguous:
- Farkran
- xofelf
- Raya36
- Brave Heart Lion (has one post, but it's enthusiastic)
- Toadette
Anti-Posting:
- Dwlee
- SirCakez
- Beeboy? (has zero posts)
- Isis? (has one irrelevant post)
- Kazyan
- NorwegianboyEE
- Flea the Magician
- kdowns ("15 pages of shit")
- Save the Dragons ("holy crap there are a lot of posts")
Was this helpful? Probably not.- Kazyan
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You totes do, but I was referring to this:In post 590, Andante wrote:
and I don't have 100 shit posts?In post 587, Kazyan wrote:- kdowns ("15 pages of shit")
In post 354, kdowns wrote:Also this. I saw game start and didn't know that I would have to sift through 15 pages of shit.- Kazyan
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I think "town who isn't towning well" is more plausible for kdowns, but kdowns is still more likely to be scum than a random poster here.
Thinking back to that scumgod Prism newbie game, though, Flow Trap's town behavior in that game is consistent with their behavior here. So I'm just gonnna sheep. VOTE: kdowns- Kazyan
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That's fair. To know more about how you think, why did you get the impression that I'd scumread myself? Did that come across as a Jester soft-claim or something?In post 624, Dwlee99 wrote:Oh I see, I guess I misinterpreted. That makes more sense as the meaning of the list. Still not a fan of 614.- Kazyan
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Yeah, scum joking about being scum is what another player, Hana Song, once described as "guilty conscience" behavior from people who prefer to play as town instead of as mafia.In post 627, Dwlee99 wrote:I thought it was a joke of sorts. Like someone going "haha I'm scum " I always find that sort of thing strange, but people do it. I think Toadette's first post was claiming that they could be mafia, for instance. Strange all around.- Kazyan
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It's a good point, but lots of other people have gone with the "cats are the enemy" flavor as well? It's a data point.In post 629, Nero Cain wrote:Also, she's doing this kinda weird thing where she assumes that the cats are the scum team just b/c the name is "dogs vs. cats" but many of you have said you are other animals and the town pm lists threasts as our enemy. Am I just overthinking this?- Kazyan
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Understanding people's thought processes is entirely necessary in the game of Mafia, though. It's why people policy-yeet lurkers and people who refuse to claim at E-1; you can't tell what they're thinking and thus don't know whether that comes from scum or not.In post 636, SirCakez wrote:
this doesn't really mean anything KazIn post 526, Kazyan wrote:Refusing to give a motivation for a vote. Yikes. VOTE: flow trap
Truth, but how dare you.In post 636, SirCakez wrote:who cares?- Kazyan
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Oh, right. I was stuck on the "she's postingIn post 671, Nero Cain wrote:Did you read 629? She also kinda left after ppl got tired of all the shit/fluff posting and its not a great look either.too much" sentiment rather than the patterns of what she was doing. This is a good observation and I think you're town.- Kazyan
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My read on her is "I don't know". I think it's unlikely that scum would commit so hard to fluff-walling so early in the game, but I can't rule it out. She also sort of deflected onto the anti-fluff-wallers. There are scummy bits and pieces, but they don't cohere well into an image of scummy play for me.
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Should I be talking more about myself? Despite the rumblings, I have zero votes on me and I already know everything about myself, so I'm statistically the least interesting person in the game from my POV.In post 719, kdowns wrote:I think it's just with Kaz it seems like it's initiating conversations on people other than himself? I just haven't like the feel of the buddy buddy that's been going on.- Kazyan
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Apologies for being anti-fun with my dourness. I'd been thinking with a puzzle mindset and didn't let the introductory levity in.
Hmm. I like this post--it's rambly and uncurated in a way that is counter to the scum mindset.In post 759, xofelf wrote:I wrinkled my nose a little, though not super much. Nero town read I agree on. I can see the you townlean, you come across a lot more different when you're being schemey and lying. Anya I follow, though I'd put her more into a null box so far. Toadette baffles me, but only because that's a null box. Admittedly, my only experience with Isis has been her as scum so far as I recall so I could just be watching her slot that much harder. unwnd is fine to be townlean, I feel that. Flowtrap is definitely a box of confusion, that's fine. Andante I feel good about, but this is also just fluff interactions were fun and I always like fun. And her reactions to people questioning her also feel totally in line with what I'd expect. Dwlee doesn't feel confusing to me? Hell i'd put them in slight townread box. I think how they've questioned people feels the way I'd expect town to go about it, doesn't feel like any bonkers reaches are happening, there's room for them to be wrong. Beeboy as scum is a bad read. Mans has one post, and it's one that makes sense. It would be one thing if this was like 4 RL days into Day 1 and he still had one or two posts. This is not that. Even given the assumption he won't play hard if scum, which I sure hope that's not actually a real thing he actually does cuz that's very =/, we're not even 24 hours into the game. This read can chill. kdowns also makes no sense to me as a scumread. He's barely got any posts, and feels like the ones he has given are all in line with a typical amount of engagement? idk, I don't get that one. Pooky as a gut read, sure I can't question gut reads too hard as a person who almost solely plays by them, but like Pooky's just been stuffed of fluff so far, I don't put too much into that.
So I guess you could tl;dr all of that and get, everything Null up I like, but confusion box down I do not.- Kazyan
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SirCakez and Norwegianboy's votes for Andante look super opportunistic and weak to me, though they are almost definitely not scum together. SirCakez's explanation for the vote seems particularly like a made-up reason for me, in absence of having an actually good reason to scumread someone.
VOTE: SirCakez- Kazyan
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Alright, I'm here again and I probably have an hour or two before work needs me. Does anyone have direct questions?
My hot take is that scum were in the half-dozen pre-wagon people throwing shade at me over and over, and when that didn't work, someone finally voted for me.In post 1051, Farkran wrote:By the way my current opinion is that the kazyan wagon is scumdriven, i cannot believe for a second that he is being scumread for trying to organize the thread
Out of all the possible reasons to vote anyone, choosing to vote for busywork is terrible, and the wagon growing so high is opportunistic at best
Can we have a vc?- Kazyan
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Because he added his vote (813) to a growing wagon with a weak reason that came out of nowhere. To me, it screamed "I just realized/was told that I should contribute to getting this miselim, but I need to come up something to explain my vote."In post 1076, Dwlee99 wrote:@kazyan why are you voting Cakez?- Kazyan
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That make more sense. I thought he was referring to posts like 792. That thought process looks genuine now, so UNVOTE: SirCakez.In post 1095, Dwlee99 wrote:I see what you're saying Kazyan, the reasoning given does boil down to that one post pinging Cakez. But also, that is more reasoning than I've seen from Andante so I'm not sure how I should interpret that.- Kazyan
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VOTE: Flow TrapIn post 1102, flow trap wrote:
That's a relief, it hold no weightIn post 1097, SirCakez wrote:All of it. You have like 100000 posts I'm not gonna dig individual things out. I don't have more to say on this than what I've said.- Kazyan
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I really want to know why you made that list though, and what you were hoping to gain from it?[/spoiler][/quote]In post 622, Kazyan wrote:It's not a list of reads, though. It's a list of who was pro-fluff and who was anti-fluff. I don't have 24 distinct reads; a lot of people blend together.
I was trying to generate content. See what I was told in 477 and then in 503; I realized that I could make An Content to get us out of the fluff. But now everyone hates it because it's "IIoA", but what was there to analyze? The furry RP? I don't hate myself enough to pore through that.- Kazyan
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Also, UNVOTE: Flow Trap because of this post:
Scum would almost certainly make up a reason instead of saying this.In post 1133, flow trap wrote:
I don't remember why .-.In post 1132, Chara wrote:ideally the honest answer but i appreciate that honesty too.- Kazyan
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At the time, I saw SirCakez's weak explanation as more scum-inidicative--making something up--than NBEE's naked vote, which looked more like playstyle.
Mea culpa. I'm having a hard time keeping track of everyone.In post 1164, Chara wrote:what are you talking about with unwnd? they've been posting a lot and haven't stopped.
Fallen off my radar. idk, maybe content with the gamestate.In post 1167, Save The Dragons wrote:Kazyan what's your take on Pooky now?- Kazyan
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Eh, screw it, seems legit. VOTE: BeeboyIn post 1179, unwnd wrote:So yeah to the people who hate reading
Andante wagon bad because it is cultivated by potential Beeboy partners; Andante is limbait at worst
Beeboy partners mad that Beeboy not post
Beeboy continue to not post, we should vote him- Kazyan
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Farkran, my impression of you is that you're townreading basically everyone. Could you sum up who you think are most likely to be scum, if anyone?In post 1249, Farkran wrote:
Also this is 100% town!norweeIn post 1242, NorwegianboyEE wrote:It is Unwd. And you're one of the more arrogant players i've met to think you've "caught me" because i made some light jokes in a game.- Kazyan
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lol sometimes I ISO myself because I react in-the-moment and I have to figure out what I was thinking in the distant past of 4 hours ago.In post 1255, Chara wrote:
flow i love that you do this, i do the same thing.In post 1213, flow trap wrote:Memory issues- Kazyan
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Sticking this in my ISO for later.In post 1288, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I don't understand why we should ever eliminate a slot that doesn't even post. The allignment indicative information we'd get out of that flip if scum is zero to none. And if they flip town it's even worse.- Kazyan
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In post 1288, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I don't understand why we should ever eliminate a slot that doesn't even post. The allignment indicative information we'd get out of that flip if scum is zero to none. And if they flip town it's even worse.In post 1304, NorwegianboyEE wrote:But what if someone vigs Beeboy and we vote someone that will react more to pressure instead.
This is strange. NBEE suggests that 1) flipping Beeboy would give no information, 2) that we wait for to see if we have a vigilante, and 3) that well, maybe the scum are just trying to bus Beeboy. What I'm seeing is that NBEE has no consistent townread rationale for disagreeing with the Beeboy wagon, and is simply trying very hard to save Beeboy.In post 1311, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I mean if i was scum and i had someone like Beeboy as scum partner i would just buss him and say everyone who didn't vote him is scum.
If Beeboy flips scum, we should seriously consider whether NBEE was trying to save a scumbuddy here.- Kazyan
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IIn post 1325, Andante wrote:everything about what you said here... it's perfectly reasonable to not want to lim slots with no content... if anything, I think you're scum here for this poststronglydisagree. Staying quiet benefits no one except for scum. That's why we policy-elim lurkers and have a prod timer.- Kazyan
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Just tell me to go fuck myself next time instead of being passive-aggressive.In post 1329, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Policy lim lurkers, jesus. You're definitely new around here aren't you.- Kazyan
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1) I just posted an independent thought. 2) I sheep people frequently--when people bring up points I agree with, so goes my opinion, because this is a 24-person slugfest and my brain is not that big. 3) I'm probably not going to convince you regardless; this is phrased more like an accusation than a question.In post 1346, SirCakez wrote:where are your independent thoughts? all I keep seeing from you is sheeping onto other people's thoughts- Kazyan
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For reference, Pooky had a comment about this consideration earlier.In post 1348, NorwegianboyEE wrote:In fact, if Beeboy is scum Pooky could be scum. Because it'd be a lot of cred for eliminating an non-participating teammate that would prob die anyway.- Kazyan
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I was gonna raise eyebrows at this, but I think it's something Pooky does as town, too--suddenly breaking character to call someone a dimwit when something is bothersome. My example is in Newbie 2059 (completed).In post 1393, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:yea im sure scum pooky and scum unwnd saw beeboy sitting there doing nothing and decided it's a real good idea to kamikaze blitz him in case he ever gets back to the game and nails the entire scum team.
do you actually read the things you write?- Kazyan
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On one hand, you're right about how diffident I'm being--all else being equal, you should definitely kill someone who's playing like this. I don't actually have a defense for how my actions can be distinguished from scum, tbh. On the other, I don't think I'm playing any differently than I did during Mini Normal 2187, during which I was town.In post 1404, unwnd wrote:Impressions on Kaz really boil down to the sentiment he brings. That being there is none. My issue with Kaz can be summarized that I don't think he believes anything he's saying really, and his flippant behavior accurately depicts that. Look at his readlist in #704. Now look at where his vote at and how it's followed said read-list. Spoiler it hasn't followed it at all. Why would you scumlean Pooky in that post and then go 'oh well yup, I guess Beeboy is scum after all'. I would be considering why my scumlean is trying to drive a lim onto a no-presence slot. What are some other votes he's made so far? Pooky? That didn't last long, he moved on and voted Cakez in his #832. You'd think he'd stay with that vote and maybe grill his apparent read or I don't know, work with them? Nah, unvote Cakez I was wrong this whole time silly me don't scumread me for opportunistic behavior. There's a lot of accusations from him as well but like, it just doesn't go anywhere. I don't understand what he's gaining by making statements like"Also, notice how quiet things are from former hyperposters (I'm particularly side-eyeing unwnd) now that I'm the center of attention."What purpose does it serve? And again, the moment someone says 'no, that's not how it works' he immediately changes his mind. Added bonus: His stances have all been rudimentary and have mostly followed the order of town, bluntly put safe. He's playing so low to the ground his animal might as well be a mole.- Kazyan
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Townread:
Nero (big solvy energy)
Townlean:
xofelf (rambly in a way that scum do not curate)
Andante (she's indignant in that way that she seems to be as town)
SirCakez (Cakez's thoughts seem to fit together now that I've had the progression pointed out)
Firebringer (Gut read)
Null:
Pooky
Murdercat
kdowns
Fark
I forget which one of these people are which:
Raya
Flea the magician
Shiro
Anya
Iyveo
I'm Particularly Confused About:
unwnd (too good at being scum to say anything is town-indicative)
flow trap (honesty, but scummy play?)
Chara (I don't want to give brownie points just for townreading me, but otherwise, ???)
Dwlee99 (responses seem very careful in a way that scum would want, but seems to actually try to solve the game)
Scumlean:
Save The Dragons (ISO is full of softball questions that go nowhere)
NBEE (contingent on Beeboy being scum)
Brave Heart Lion (very parse posts)
Toadette (just dropped an analysis and left; that seems like a scummy move to get towncred and then let the arguments play out)
Scumread:
Beeboy (refuses to post)- Kazyan
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I've only had one scumgame, so I can't tell you if there's a pattern per se--but in that game, I spent the whole time arranging the town to make the following day go smoothly. Behind every miselim push, I was setting up another townie for failure. Here's an example in Newbie 2057:In post 1439, unwnd wrote:kaz I have another question to you if you don't mind:
Let's say hypothetically that you're scum here. What do you different? What makes you town here? I was a bit shocked you just laid down and went 'yeah I don't blame you for scumreading me'. I honestly don't mind when people defend themselves because I think people fail to understand one crucial aspect of this game
The best to know you is yourself. That's true for everyone. Defending yourself is not inherently scummy and it gives perspective
This was my way of saying "I don't care which one of you gets wagoned, as long as I can start dunking on the other tomorrow". But I haven't done anything in this game that, if someone flips town, would tell me who to vote for on Day 2. I haven't been "scumhunting" in a way that gives me an excuse to tunnel tomorrow in a way that looks towny.In post 133, Kazyan wrote:Yeah, I'm really not vibing with an RVS meme-wagon being objectionable, during a period where there aren't actually enough players to hammer anyone, rather than the post contents.
This argument does not feel TvT.- Kazyan
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- Joined: December 23, 2020
?????In post 1588, Toadette wrote:Anya is probably mafia I just don't care that much about it
What is this post.- Kazyan
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Kazyan Goon
- Kazyan
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 878
- Joined: December 23, 2020
In post 1560, Dwlee99 wrote:
Sure, but it probably should be.In post 1555, Kazyan wrote:That's why I'm not calling it a scum tell? It's something I simply noticed.
+ Subsequent voting for me by DragonsIn post 1573, Save The Dragons wrote:
i feel like in the game below she says she is town a lot.In post 1550, Kazyan wrote:I've seen two of Andante's town games, and one thing that I haven't seen her do in them is to repeatedly assert that she's town--which she's doing in this one. I won't jump to conclusions and call that a scum tell, though.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86324
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I feel like I should respond to both of these but I literally can't lmao. - Kazyan
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