Dogs Vs. Cats Mafia | Endgame
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- Dwlee99
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Dwlee99 They/themSurvivor
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How did I miss this?!In post 66, xofelf wrote:No see, he's MURDERcat, as in... he will help us murder the cats.
VOTE: Anya
Trying to play both sides, it seems?I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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I think you missed the explanation that Murdercat murders cats, get Anya instead.
I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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It irked me the way you said he was refusing to play. The amount of posting so far is ridiculous and I would expect anyone who was busy to need to catch up.In post 522, unwnd wrote:
Before I head out the doorIn post 517, Dwlee99 wrote:I think we should give people some time to catch up, unwnd. There are quite a lot of posts and the game started late at night on mother's day.
I don't know why you said this
Is this because I added Beeboy? Go look at any of his scumgames, he outright refuses to play as scumI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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It's funny you say that because I played a game w ABR and Beeboy as mafia way back when. I don't remember Beeboy just not posting, but maybe playstyle changed or life got in the way of posting for a bit. I don't like these meta read things in general, but it's especially frustrating when I see the thread exploding and you talk about inactivity. If I wasn't procrastinating all of the things I have to do, and if my sleep schedule wasn't awful, I wouldn't have posted much either.In post 544, unwnd wrote:I said I wanted to head out the door, but I must've forgot my lizard coat
Beeboy was apart of my initial team for TM2020 before I tilt-replaced because ABR is a fuckhead and Beeboy replaced because he hates playing scum
We even tried to motivate him and pep talk him and he still refused to do it. I don't know if he's gotten better at this but when he's town he's just town, and when he's scum then he's not here lolI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Protip: scroll to the bottom of the page and click the drop-down.In post 576, Andante wrote:Someone tell me where I can find a beeboy post please, I wanna see their isoI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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This post is pinging me. Waffling around it being more plausible that kdowns is town but then voting based on sheeping is very... Strange. Especially when xofelf is an option other than sheeping Andante.In post 614, Kazyan wrote:I think "town who isn't towning well" is more plausible for kdowns, but kdowns is still more likely to be scum than a random poster here.
Thinking back to that scumgod Prism newbie game, though, Flow Trap's town behavior in that game is consistent with their behavior here. So I'm just gonnna sheep. VOTE: kdownsI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Spoiler: Kazyan read list
I also don't like this list of reads. Has flow trap in pro-posting despite them currently voting flow trap, town reads someone for "joined the fluffiness," includes self in anti-posting, and just generally meh reads. Why is Toadette ambiguous, for instance? I felt like Toadette came across easy to put into a town-lean bin.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Oh I see, I guess I misinterpreted. That makes more sense as the meaning of the list. Still not a fan of 614.In post 622, Kazyan wrote:It's not a list of reads, though. It's a list of who was pro-fluff and who was anti-fluff. I don't have 24 distinct reads; a lot of people blend together.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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I thought it was a joke of sorts. Like someone going "haha I'm scum " I always find that sort of thing strange, but people do it. I think Toadette's first post was claiming that they could be mafia, for instance. Strange all around.In post 625, Kazyan wrote:
That's fair. To know more about how you think, why did you get the impression that I'd scumread myself? Did that come across as a Jester soft-claim or something?In post 624, Dwlee99 wrote:Oh I see, I guess I misinterpreted. That makes more sense as the meaning of the list. Still not a fan of 614.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Spoiler: Nero's Andante reasoning
I like your reasoning here but I'd like to see more stuff from Xofelf before I consider hopping off this wagon. There is definitely more stuff against Andante than against them but I think part of that is the sheer volume of posts that she has made. She also is trying to counter wagon off of Xof so I'm unsure if that means they could be aligned.
I'm not sure if Cake has different reasoning than mine, but for me, it was the weird hop onto kdowns based on sheeping Andante in 614.Farkran wrote:Following this up, i really don't understand the scumreads on kazyan, could you all summarize that for me?I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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I've been having similar sentiments as 685, but I would like some questions answered by Xof: Why does Kazyan's feelings about posts list make you feel like you know where they're coming from? Did you make the same misinterpretation that I did, that 587 was a reads list? If so, why do you like those reads?I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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I'm having trouble understanding this. How did you interpret Kazyan's post? As a list of who was putting effort in? I'm confused about you saying you liked that they put themselves in the anti-posting spot when I feel like that is NAI.In post 693, xofelf wrote: P-Edit: Actually no, I didn't think it was a readslist. More like a... effort list almost? I liked it because it gave me a feel on the way in which they think. That's what I meant by where they're coming from. Just reading it, I had that sort of feel I get from people who are putting in good game effort in. I don't know if that helps to explain? Just pinged in a good way. It made me smile and have a sense of "yeah this person, they're a good and I want them to keep talking" as opposed to the other ping i get which involves much nose-wrinkling and grump.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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The wagon started because they were very defensive upon a couple of votes. Now that they're posting more I'm a bit perplexed on their analysis and as Save said I feel like them and Andante could be connected.In post 694, Farkran wrote:I like how xofelf is adjusting to the gamestate instead of going back to rvs-y stuff
I just isoed them since they were top wagon and i don't understand why - if it is even a serious wagon? Which votes on xofelf are actually non-rvs scumreads?I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Andante's reaction to the xofelf wagon could be scum trying to gain towncred by townreading a town or defending a scum buddy. That they haven't attempted to defend not liking the xofelf wagon makes me think we are more likely to find scum in Andante than xofelf, though.
VOTE: AndanteI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Optimally that wouldn't happen. If you think it will then tell us who scum is other than the no-reason read on kdowns.Andante wrote:
uhhh what happens when I flip town?In post 711, Dwlee99 wrote:Andante's reaction to the xofelf wagon could be scum trying to gain towncred by townreading a town or defending a scum buddy. That they haven't attempted to defend not liking the xofelf wagon makes me think we are more likely to find scum in Andante than xofelf, though.
VOTE: Andante
Kaz has loads more content than Andante. I don't like Kaz's posts but acting like Andante's are better is baffling.unwnd wrote:I don't want to play hero or seem like I need to defend people but Andante being called scum is baffling. I think people are really annoyed about her spam and think maybe she just has nothing to say, yet I see a lot of method into it. You could even compare and contrast this thought as to why I didn't like Kaz. Andante sees something she doesn't like and much like a dog starts barking at trouble. Kaz however sits back and uses opposable thumbs to make Pro/Anti lists that generate no purpose beyond discussing a potential what-if topic. What if scum are anti-posters? What if town are pro-posters? Who knows. Even he himself initially said 'will this help anyone? probably not'
Humans are the enemyI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Should've responded in the previous post but missed it in the p-edit. Look at the way Andante reacts to being asked why she doesn't like the Xof wagon. It's weird afIn post 716, unwnd wrote:
This is gargantuan leaps of logic, are you a KangarooIn post 711, Dwlee99 wrote:Andante's reaction to the xofelf wagon could be scum trying to gain towncred by townreading a town or defending a scum buddy. That they haven't attempted to defend not liking the xofelf wagon makes me think we are more likely to find scum in Andante than xofelf, though.
VOTE: AndanteI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Maybe the spam has eroded my memory but I seem to remember Andante woofing, calling kmdown scum and never elaborating, and saying she doesn't like xof's wagon without elaboration. What are you seeing?In post 732, unwnd wrote:
Andante takes the initiative by voting bad people, seeking out trouble fearlesslyIn post 723, Dwlee99 wrote:Kaz has loads more content than Andante. I don't like Kaz's posts but acting like Andante's are better is baffling.
Kaz sits at their desk writing up tall tales on potential good and bad people
I choose Andante every timeI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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I reread them and it's all just shitposts like I remember.In post 743, Andante wrote:
Is it really? xofelf was part of the dog crew and the antics last night, now if you actually looked into those interactions, maybe you'd understand where I'm coming from.In post 729, Dwlee99 wrote:It's weird af
To be fair to the possibility of you being town, I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to vote you in part for having over 100 posts. But turns out that the rest of the reasons are also good enough for me on D1.In post 744, Andante wrote:And, Dwlee, if you were town, I feel like youd actually try and read me rather than find any reason to push me.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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This is fair but the justification could be as simple as "I didn't like this specific part of this post." And then how long did it take Andante to come up w a reason to town read Xof that was just "read when we posted memes together?" No me gusta.In post 745, unwnd wrote:I actually think it would be worse if Andante felt she needed to elaborate on voting kdowns or why she felt she was scum. kdowns had four posts(?) at the time. She just saw something and bark bark bark
If the animal jokes get too much
Too bad I'm making them all game, have a cowI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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I appreciated the catch-up posts that I remember reading. I don't particularly mind the kaz wagon that seemed to spawn out of it either, but can someone tell me why P(kaz = scum) > P(andante = scum)? Had this conversation with unwnd (who I seem to disagree with on almost everything) but didn't feel like we reached a good conclusion with it.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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The first game you linked, Beeboy replaces into a scum slot while it is heavily suspected, tries to give reads, and is ultimately eliminated. The second one I skimmed and it seems he made a lot of shitposts, which would have been perfect for this game. I'm not convinced by this meta read, especially because of how early it is still.In post 1022, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=84135
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=84956
These are two games I've had with beeboy-scum
Unwnd said something about his "playstyle" as scum being to just refuse to play from his TM game.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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How about this one as town where he gets force replaced day one? https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84750
P-edit:
I got sniped.Anya wrote:wasn't beeboy town in this game and ducked out without doing anything?
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=GoI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Anya, that would have been more believable with beeboy still on no vote.
I think Kazyan's vote right now is on SirCakez. Bad vote imo. I also hated their sheep of Andante to vote kmdown earlier. Granted, I'm not on the wagon, but the wagon seemed to grow naturally in a response to people catching up with the thread voting for him. Unless you're suggesting Raya is forming a counterwagon to save Andante?In post 1051, Farkran wrote:By the way my current opinion is that the kazyan wagon is scumdriven, i cannot believe for a second that he is being scumread for trying to organize the thread
Out of all the possible reasons to vote anyone, choosing to vote for busywork is terrible, and the wagon growing so high is opportunistic at best
Can we have a vc?I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Spoiler: Unofficial VoteCount
If Anya's switch to Farkran was intended as anything more than a possible reaction test, I'm confused by it. Andante is still parked on kdowns and I don't believe we have received decent reasons. I would like to see the four non-voters do something with their vote so I can at least know what they're thinking. I don't like kazyan or flea's votes cause I townread those people although I can't remember when the flea vote was placed. I want firebringer to catch-up and update his vote cause I think that one was placed during the animal noise phase of the game. I also do not like the NorwegianBoyEE votes and that Shiro caught up and decided to vote with flow trap there is weird. I don't think Shiro gave reads on Andante / Kazyan / Xof and I'd like their thoughts.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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@kazyan why are you voting Cakez?
Was there a reason attached to Shiro or yours vote? I don't recall it.flow trap wrote:
Why?In post 1068, Dwlee99 wrote:and that Shiro caught up and decided to vote with flow trap there is weird.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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I feel like this is a weird reaction to my post.In post 1077, flow trap wrote:
Yeah well that means I probably had no influence on themIn post 1076, Dwlee99 wrote:@kazyan why are you voting Cakez?
Was there a reason attached to Shiro or yours vote? I don't recall it.flow trap wrote:
Why?In post 1068, Dwlee99 wrote:and that Shiro caught up and decided to vote with flow trap there is weird.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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I'm in. I need to know if you're making a VHS reference here on purposeIn post 1084, Nero Cain wrote:I would like to formally announce that your general is forming a new alliance. This isn't your racist rat or dog federation that only allows a certain species in. Here at Animals for the Defense of Animal town or ADAT we welcome all creatures.
will you join me cakez and dwelee?
Was it weak? There were some lead up posts iirc. I'll reread.Kazyan wrote:
Because he added his vote (813) to a growing wagon with a weak reason that came out of nowhere. To me, it screamed "I just realized/was told that I should contribute to getting this miselim, but I need to come up something to explain my vote."In post 1076, Dwlee99 wrote:@kazyan why are you voting Cakez?I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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I'm a big fan of Murdercat's catch-up post.
Kaz was really out here just like "oh I agree with you" on SirCakez. Which I mean, it's cool to admit when you change your mind, but also I like having a bit of a back and forth about that kind of thing. There were only really three posts in question, though, so I guess there wasn't too much to discuss.
I'm glad Cakez posted more reasons he is on Andante right now because I felt like a lot of it was implied rather than stated. Speaking of Andante, 14 hours without a post seems a lot for her. Also, I'm still waiting on firebringer to "destroy the wagon" or whatever he said.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Why is Andante town?In post 1142, Firebringer wrote:
im perpetually promising more to deliver.In post 1139, Dwlee99 wrote:Also, I'm still waiting on firebringer to "destroy the wagon" or whatever he said.
but if u have questions for me. i am available for next 15minutes while my work computer does updates.
amaI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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This post is not good.In post 1229, Andante wrote:lol I don't even sr the person I'm voting right now
This plan is awful.In post 1206, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
I'm just gonna state this now.In post 1196, MURDERCAT wrote:I'd like to give beeboy some more time tbh
If beeboy gets replaced for inactivity or request I'm gonna be pushing to policy elim the slot so I don't want his teammates to get their hopes up that they can be saved by the bell or some shit
Is Norwee "caught for the wrong reasons" here? That's kinda the vibes I'm getting.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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So not voting for your scum reads is good? Does Andante have a scum read? What has she done?In post 1252, flow trap wrote:
Disagree!In post 1248, Dwlee99 wrote:
This post is not good.In post 1229, Andante wrote:lol I don't even sr the person I'm voting right now
Also this??Andante wrote:
Not like I take pressure well.... someone pushed me, I gave up and claimed doc once...In post 1247, Save The Dragons wrote:i don't think you're taking pressure well. and instead of re-evaluating, you double down on your OMGUS vote.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Combined with your next post it seems like you don't find anyone scummy? Do you typically not have any scum reads?In post 1258, Andante wrote:
What make it not good opposed to meh?In post 1248, Dwlee99 wrote:This post is not good.
Have you ever been tunneled before?In post 1262, Andante wrote: Looks like your intent is to just tunnel me? not my fault I only have TRs I'm confident in... Tell the scum to make themselves known then... I haven't found a vote I like
P-edit: The thread is moving so fast holy crap. I've gotten p-review'd three times.
FOUR and
wow lolAndante wrote:VOTE: BeeboyI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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It was being proposed that we eliminate the slot even if it gets a replacement.In post 1292, Chara wrote:
because a slot that doesn't post (not saying this is beeboy as the day is still young) gives zero information alive too, and they need to go before the endgame. i'd want to eliminate that slot regardless.In post 1288, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I don't understand why we should ever eliminate a slot that doesn't even post. The allignment indicative information we'd get out of that flip if scum is zero to none. And if they flip town it's even worse.
I don't think this is the case based on what I've seen. I think Beeboy has adopted this playstyle regardless of playstyle and also has happened to roll scum lately. I played with him a while ago and he definitely did not refuse to post as scum.in this case there happens to be evidence it is very AI for beeboy.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Dwlee99 They/themSurvivor
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Assuming you're still catching up, can you let me know why this is once you're done? I asked in-thread earlier and I didn't get a response.In post 1339, SirCakez wrote:VOTE: kaz I think I SR this more strongly than Andante nowI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Why P(kaz = scum) > P(andante = scum)In post 1344, SirCakez wrote:
still catching up but which part? kaz or andante?In post 1341, Dwlee99 wrote:
Assuming you're still catching up, can you let me know why this is once you're done? I asked in-thread earlier and I didn't get a response.In post 1339, SirCakez wrote:VOTE: kaz I think I SR this more strongly than Andante nowI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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I think Kaz echoes enough of my sentiments that I don't feel that weird about some of their posts. For instance, you didn't like their one post about the absence of the hyperposters for a bit, but I had a similar feeling. I agree that the application of it was off ("now that I'm the center of attention") but I still feel worse about Andante than Kaz. A lot of it is tonal, as you said, but I really get rubbed the wrong way when she talks about voting for people she doesn't scum read or claiming doctor for funsies in a different game. And then that beeboy vote.In post 1378, SirCakez wrote:
Everything Kaz posts gives me massive scum pings, over and over. I've called out like 5 of them and could probably quote more.In post 1374, Dwlee99 wrote:
Why P(kaz = scum) > P(andante = scum)In post 1344, SirCakez wrote:
still catching up but which part? kaz or andante?In post 1341, Dwlee99 wrote:
Assuming you're still catching up, can you let me know why this is once you're done? I asked in-thread earlier and I didn't get a response.In post 1339, SirCakez wrote:VOTE: kaz I think I SR this more strongly than Andante now
Andante is more of a tone read, and their recent posting has felt a little better. but not enough to move them out of my scum pile.
I liked Toadette for her "early" activity but don't have anything concrete.In post 1379, SirCakez wrote:I recall some people TRing Toadette? why is that? I can't even remember any of their posts.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Why do you find the scumreads on Andante opportunistic and townread me?In post 1431, Raya36 wrote:Andante has been one of the bigger topics and I strongly believe that the reasons she's being scumread for are NAI. I wouldn't call her a townread. I just think the scumreads there are opportunistic and need to be challenged.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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I agree that some or even a lot of her posts come across as genuine, but I don't feel like that justifies a town read. There is other content that has come across as less genuine. The example that comes to mind to me is when she accused me of tunneling her, it felt a little too ridiculous for me to take genuinely.In post 1438, Firebringer wrote: To borrow something drippinggoofball once said about me
she is so earnest town to me. Like bleeds town in away that sounds genuine in posts about what she is thinking doing. Don't think anything is fake from her.
She kind of reminds me of a younger me.
That Nero consistently reads my mind is a good sign.In post 1455, Nero Cain wrote:Andante could normally be lynchbait but sometimes lynchbait just gets sent a scum pm. And I also think that calling some lynchbait would be a p good way to defend them. If andante is scum I could imagine that the following conversation went down in the scum pt.
Andante: shit I rolled scum. What do I do?!?
her scumbuddies: that's ok, just play up your lynchability.
I guess I'm confused why you think it is opportunism to be on Andante but haven't really named examples of such opportunism and presumably don't think so about my vote. There are three votes other than mine on Andante, which ones do you find opportunistic?In post 1461, Raya36 wrote:
Not all of them are bad. I just think Andante is miselim bait. The reason I townread you is because you have been consistently posting content and I find myself agreeing with a lot of it. I can easily follow your thought process and I'm getting the feeling you're genuinely scumhunting. I also almost never make reads based on associations of two people still alive.In post 1449, Dwlee99 wrote: Why do you find the scumreads on Andante opportunistic and townread me?
[-snip-]
Can you explain what your case is on Andante (or anyone else scumreading her)? Maybe I'm missing something but what I remember seeing so far has just been NAI to me.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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You're trying to meta a player with zero scum games. On a more light-hearted note, Andante and I had the same first newbie mod despite joining five years apart. Kinda cool.In post 1530, Toadette wrote:I've seen Andante hyperpost like this as town, does she do this as scum or does she freeze? There's kind of a sound barrier break element where I don't want to lim someone just on being able to make a high number of posts that have some kind of topic and don't feel forced. It's just so much hard to do as scum then town and if it actually is scum putting on the ritz it often flames out in this really apparent way later on anyway
I like can't imagine this kind of slot being the best D1 elim in a 24p really
I strongly disagree on beeboy being a good elim. I don't think we will get alignment indicative information out of it and his meta isn't to only do this as scum. I think we will just be eliminating a slot that has the possibility of a strong town player replacing into it.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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In your example there would be a 75% chance of hitting scum by voting you so I'd go for it. I don't think the probabilities work out that way in our game, though.In post 1554, Toadette wrote:Dwlee if I winked with my left eye in 90% of my scum games and did it in 10% of my towngames and you saw me winking with my left eye in a game where everyone in the game has a ~25% chance to be a scum would you eliminate me or hope for a different player with a 25% chance to be town who you can guess 5% better with nonmeta social deductionI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Sure, but it probably should be.In post 1555, Kazyan wrote:That's why I'm not calling it a scum tell? It's something I simply noticed.I prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Do you want me to go through and check every game for the past year? I checked I think the first 4 or 5 and found him scum in all but one, and he replaced out D1 of the town game. But when he replaced in as scum he posted a decent amount (only alive one day) and shitposted in another one. I don't think the distribution you're claiming is correct.In post 1563, Toadette wrote:The sample data for beeboys meta is the sameI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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@Toadette
Shitposty:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
Replaces in + tries:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=GoI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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I responded at the time to your links and you ignored me.In post 1575, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
we have very different definitions of "trying" since I used those examples as times where I played with scum!beeboy and he didn't try at all lolIn post 1572, Dwlee99 wrote:@Toadette
Shitposty:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
Replaces in + tries:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=GoI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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Dwlee99 They/themSurvivor
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I liked seeing your reasoning on Raya. Why are you on murdercat now instead?In post 1593, Anya wrote:i like you even more now andante
dunno about toadette yet
VOTE: murdecat where's the multiple presentsI prefer they, thanks :)- Dwlee99
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I have Shiro as nullscum in my head but I think a wagon there has similar issues to a beeboy elim in that we don't really get information from it. I also still think Andante is more likely to flip scum than Shiro. I also feel like Andante is anti-town regardless of alignment right now, but I might take jokes about being scum like this one unusually poorly.I remember one of my first threads in mafia discussion was about how much I dislike this exact kind of post.
I prefer they, thanks :) - Dwlee99
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