Dogs Vs. Cats Mafia | Endgame

[Raya36]

(what am i apologizing for)

Chara did not know what it was apologizing for therefore it lied when saying sorry! Who lies? scum. VOTE: Chara

[Raya36]

I AM STARTING THE OFFICIAL DOGGO ALLIANCE.

Those who wish to join it. Please type some variant of "join dog team"

we will eliminate all cats

Well considering I already am a dog consider me in

[Raya36]

(what am i apologizing for)

Chara did not know what it was apologizing for therefore it lied when saying sorry! Who lies? scum. VOTE: Chara

Don't be hurting our relations with the rat federation!!!!

Sorry, it appears our rat friend is scum

[Raya36]

(what am i apologizing for)

Chara did not know what it was apologizing for therefore it lied when saying sorry! Who lies? scum. VOTE: Chara

Already pocketed me Raya, you've done it again

Anytime

[Raya36]

(what am i apologizing for)

Chara did not know what it was apologizing for therefore it lied when saying sorry! Who lies? scum. VOTE: Chara

i plead canadian.

Hm convincing, although that means you know just as well as I do that all canadians being nice is a lie. And it so happens you're one of the not so nice ones

[Raya36]

I have changed my avatar to represent our team! Go doggos!!

I love it! I want to see more dogs!

[Raya36]

Murdercat can be our inside agent

[Raya36]

(what am i apologizing for)

Chara did not know what it was apologizing for therefore it lied when saying sorry! Who lies? scum. VOTE: Chara

i plead canadian.

Hm convincing, although that means you know just as well as I do that all canadians being nice is a lie. And it so happens you're one of the not so nice ones

i'll have you know i'm a lovely person. i made an important phone call the other day and only cried twice.

are you sure

you

aren't a filthy... canadian?

Considering I apologized to the table I bumped into earlier, I'd say you've got the wrong canadian

[Raya36]

Anya is a shapeshifter???

[Raya36]

The problem now is farmers keep cats and dogs. But which do they like more?

[Raya36]

The problem now is farmers keep cats and dogs. But which do they like more?

Is this a claim that you like cats equally to dogs? Because we can't be having any of that

[Raya36]

The problem now is farmers keep cats and dogs. But which do they like more?

Is this a claim that you like cats equally to dogs? Because we can't be having any of that

Oh absolutely not. But farmers though, those pesky farmers absolutely pick the both option.

Good, for a second I thought we were going to have to banish you from the dog ranks

[Raya36]

Wow you guys post a lot in one day. Going to start catching up but in the meantime:
UNVOTE: Chara I'm a fan of rats anyway

[Raya36]

Can lizards be trusted tho? Chara tells me yes, but she is canadian and trusts everyone.

As a fellow Canadian, can confirm

This too is an enemy!

this is the most worthless army I've ever seen. our enemies are in plain sight and you are disobeying your general's orders?!

That dog is far too cute to be an enemy

Ivy i am unsure of at the moment, i thought Nero's reaction was fine, but unwnd's immediate "i don't think Ivy would be this brash as scum" makes me wonder, i didn't think she was being all that brash. what's Ivy like as scum, unwnd?

We didn't have a full game, but I got the impression that she's far more careful with her words. I don't get the impression that she couldn't

be

brash, but to get herself into some kinda problem this early for no reason when people are just pretending to be animals doesn't seem like something she'd let happen. I felt she was a good partner and fooled a decent amount of people.

I think this logic makes sense and I'm agreeing. It sounded more like a town attempt to get out of rvs than anything else to me

i vote andante as doggo leader in chief

I second this

Anya, have u been trying to get votes on u? thats something i feel like ur trying to do.

Funny thing is my thoughts are basically the opposite. Like full to scummy to be scum

I've been sniffing her butt for the last 5 minutes

A cat would never suggest such a thing. Looks like we've got ourselves a dog.

Why would I be a spy for the cats?

that's not what the town wincon says

Why not?

all dogs must be killed to death

I AM STARTING THE OFFICIAL DOGGO ALLIANCE.

Those who wish to join it. Please type some variant of "join dog team"

we will eliminate all cats

I am not a cat can I be an affiliate of the dog alliance?

A real dog wouldn't have to ask... or state that they're not a cat. A bit odd tone-wise

(on page 13)

[Raya36]

Toadette was so far one of the only people to enter the game with actual content so I wanna give a couple tiny townpoints for that

by shocked I mean let's goooooo

Hmmm you were all for the dog side a few pages ago... not sure if you can be trusted anymore

Oh a budding wagon that I feel milquetoast about

VOTE: Farkran

why Fark here? was this vote in reaction to xofelf getting some votes?

Sort of

Something doesn't seem right about Fark, the votes on xof aren't terrible but it's a early D1 wagon that doesn't need my added vote.

This post irks me
I think it's because it's so vague
"Something doesn't feel right"

I don't see anything wrong with tone reads this early

I never joke about running a cult

And now we come back to my first post of the game. This is a lie. And who lies? Scum.

(on page 19)

[Raya36]

i like that flow wants to be a part of all the fluffposting right from the beginning. it's respectable.

I LOVE everyone's reaction when they enter "omg a million pages...." lmao makes me laugh

IT DIDN'T MAKE ME LAUGH

Anya is just a farmer who is imitating the noises she hears outside

humans don't exist in this game silly.

unless...

SHE IS A PARROT!!!

*Twolegs

You have just unlocked memories

They are..acceptable

Some of them at least

I'm a dog! Am I one of the acceptable ones?

Everyone's just joshing around at the moment, so there is no one to capture anyone's hearts. I'll probably review the unwnd/Fark thing later, but for today, this game has an incredibly low content-to-pages ratio and it's not actually worth the effort to try to distill anything out of it.

trying to get workable content out of the fluff is the quickest way to get out of that phase of the game, though.

Exactly, if we ignore the fluff what do we have to go off of... more fluff??

Plus you can actually read a lot tonally from fluff

VOTE: toadette

Why? Toadette might as well be my only townread as of now

I almost have 2 times as many posts as the person with the 2nd most posts lmao

So you're the one to blame for this

Knowing that several people have expressed being overwhelmed by the amount of posting, do we think that it would be in scum's best interest to continue adding fluff, or would they prefer to stay on the sidelines? They'd probably be of split opinion on that, come to think of it, so we could expect some scum to be quiet and some to be very fluffy.

P-edit: Flow Trap, do you have a reason behind the naked vote?

What was the point of this post if the conclusion was no conclusion?

I wouldn't be opposed to beeboy if it's true but let's give some time since the game really only just started

@andante

can you explain:

why you joined the dog alliance
why you called yourself andante
why you're a wolf
why you voted for nero cain
why you're lurking and not answering my questions

YEESSS

why you joined the dog alliance- WOOF WOOF WOOF BARK WOOF
why you called yourself andante - BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK
why you're a wolf- AWOOOOOOOOOO
why you voted for nero cain- WOOF BARK BARK WOOF WOOF
why you're lurking and not answering my questions- WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF

I think this is a slip?

How can I slip if I'm dog?

I must be translating it wrong

I'm really curious as to how you translated that to a slip?

(page 24)

[Raya36]

Btw i will NOT be as hyperposty as usual, because i am working an 9 to 5 job weekly. Before i had a lot more time for mafia.

Or is it because you don't want to be sus

As someone in the exact same position this hurt me a little

kdowns is scum. lets vote kdowns guys

Why is kdowns scum again?

I'm agreeing with dwlee about kazyan. Also look at the thing I said about kazyan in my last post.

Oh I see, I guess I misinterpreted. That makes more sense as the meaning of the list. Still not a fan of 614.

That's fair. To know more about how you think, why did you get the impression that I'd scumread myself? Did that come across as a Jester soft-claim or something?

I also tonally don't like this. "I scumread you for this" "that's fair". Then suggesting it came off jestery when dwlee was implying scummy.

Oh I see, I guess I misinterpreted. That makes more sense as the meaning of the list. Still not a fan of 614.

That's fair. To know more about how you think, why did you get the impression that I'd scumread myself? Did that come across as a Jester soft-claim or something?

I thought it was a joke of sorts. Like someone going "haha I'm scum " I always find that sort of thing strange, but people do it. I think Toadette's first post was claiming that they could be mafia, for instance. Strange all around.

You must be finding this whole game strange then

I think at least 1 scum is in the "I hate all this content" cause scum has to follow along with it, town can skim, say they won't back read, so what, ask someone for a TLDR later, like, yeah

Many ISOs to review to figure out who said they hate this content then. Here gooooes

Pro-posting:
- Andante
- Nero
- Flow Trap
- unwnd
- Chara

Anti-posting:
- SirCakez
- Beeboy?
- Kazyan

More later.

This random effort feels pretty townie from kazyan.

You could also call it busy work...

I guess you could say that Kaz posting list of fluff posters or whatever they were doing is a bit IIOAy.

What's IIOAy?

P-Edit: Actually no, I didn't think it was a readslist. More like a... effort list almost? I liked it because it gave me a feel on the way in which they think. That's what I meant by where they're coming from. Just reading it, I had that sort of feel I get from people who are putting in good game effort in. I don't know if that helps to explain? Just pinged in a good way. It made me smile and have a sense of "yeah this person, they're a good and I want them to keep talking" as opposed to the other ping i get which involves much nose-wrinkling and grump.

I'm having trouble understanding this. How did you interpret Kazyan's post? As a list of who was putting effort in? I'm confused about you saying you liked that they put themselves in the anti-posting spot when I feel like that is NAI.

I'm also curious because if not NAI I actually think putting themselves in anti-posting could also be seen as lamist

Oh, wow, andante iso is... not good. Content/posts ratio is really low, and when i met content i don't read it as an attempt to advance the gamestate, rather just to say that something was there. I don't like andante so far.

Based on *only* andante iso though i don't see the connection to xofelf, is it something that happens unilaterally from xofelf?

This honestly just feels like normal Andante

I think xofelf is town but I very much disagree with their kazyan read

Actually I was about ready to call out Kaz's Anti/Pro list post as merely busywork but then he followed through with a readslist

The question is why he didn't just do that in the first place lol

Yes, this!

I don't want to play hero or seem like I need to defend people but Andante being called scum is baffling. I think people are really annoyed about her spam and think maybe she just has nothing to say, yet I see a lot of method into it. You could even compare and contrast this thought as to why I didn't like Kaz. Andante sees something she doesn't like and much like a dog starts barking at trouble. Kaz however sits back and uses opposable thumbs to make Pro/Anti lists that generate no purpose beyond discussing a potential what-if topic. What if scum are anti-posters? What if town are pro-posters? Who knows. Even he himself initially said 'will this help anyone? probably not'

Humans are the enemy

this is a very towny post

Indifferent, but I can see why you think it's towny just because it's labeling you town.

This was kinda bold considering the gamestate and I wanna give kdowns a light townread for it

(page 30, getting so close)

[Raya36]

I actually think it would be worse if Andante felt she needed to elaborate on voting kdowns or why she felt she was scum. kdowns had four posts(?) at the time. She just saw something and bark bark bark

If the animal jokes get too much

Too bad I'm making them all game, have a cow

The animal jokes are very a-moo-sing

im surprised raya hasnt joined my dog cult yet

Well you haven't invited me now have you?

Andante has still felt NAI to me so far. I kind of get the push but I think the fact that it hasn't pressured her to start posting more content points more towards town than anything.

i like Dwlee for town. i don't have any great big reason, but their posting is good.

I am also townleaning dwlee

I'm also curious because if not NAI I actually think putting themselves in anti-posting could also be seen as lamist

pretty sure Kaz was listing players who were fine with the fluffposting vs. players who were not fine with it, and it wasn't anything to do with Kaz's own opinion.

Kaz made that weird post where they asked if scum would like the fluff posting or dislike it. I think someone said something about there's likely at least one scum in anti-fluff section?

[Raya36]

yall with the essays... those are so hard to read.... I prefer my fluff posting

My essays are me trying to catch up on your fluff posting

[Raya36]

Knowing that several people have expressed being overwhelmed by the amount of posting, do we think that it would be in scum's best interest to continue adding fluff, or would they prefer to stay on the sidelines? They'd probably be of split opinion on that, come to think of it, so we could expect some scum to be quiet and some to be very fluffy.

P-edit: Flow Trap, do you have a reason behind the naked vote?

I think at least 1 scum is in the "I hate all this content" cause scum has to follow along with it, town can skim, say they won't back read, so what, ask someone for a TLDR later, like, yeah

@Chara This is the one I was thinking of

[Raya36]

VOTE: kazyan

[Raya36]

Raya I would be delighted if you would join my lovely cult of Doggos :3

I would be delighted as well

[Raya36]

Raya I would be delighted if you would join my lovely cult of Doggos :3

Raya is already in.

I was dog but not in the cult of doggos

Recruit: Raya

I kind of get the push but I think the fact that it hasn't pressured her to start posting more content points more towards town than anything.

I mean, I guess you could look @ it as she's town and gives zero fucks as opposed to scum that might start to shape up so they don't get lynched but at the same time you could look @ it as if she won't stop she's just being very anti-town and utterly unhelpful and/or scum that knows thinks that her scum buddies are p likely to save her.

Yeah, I agree, but if scum is called out for being anti-town I generally expect them to adjust even subtly so I'm leaning more towards that

yall with the essays... those are so hard to read.... I prefer my fluff posting

My essays are me trying to catch up on your fluff posting

yours aren't too bad!! I like them, everyone else's....

Yay

[Raya36]

VOTE: Pooky

Pls give a real opinion about the gamestate

My favourite number is not the number of mafia in this game

Wow same

Why? Toadette might as well be my only townread as of now

I don't like not voting so I hopped on a random wagon of 1

It was fully random?

[Raya36]

It's an open. The setup is a upick but you also have some control over who actually gets a pr in the pregame

[Raya36]

you guys know what would be funny? If andante is scum and was afraid of going down today so they voted their buddy (kdowns) I think unwnds jazz about andate being a gut player and not having to explain her reads/views is hot garbage.

I vote on gut but I can tell you what made me feel that way, why is she incapable of that?

I checked some of her old games and that was the conclusion I came from it. Could I be wrong? Possibly, but I'm not seeing the arguments made for why she's scum. She posts a lot and doesn't explain herself. Okay?

I agree. Not saying Andante can't be scum but so far any cases I have seen only point out NAI stuff for her.

Toadheart also feels like scum

Once again, gonna ask why because I townread toadette

[Raya36]

Are you normally this challenging about people SRing your TRs Raya?

Andante has been one of the bigger topics and I strongly believe that the reasons she's being scumread for are NAI. I wouldn't call her a townread. I just think the scumreads there are opportunistic and need to be challenged.

Spoiler: catchup

I don’t like the vote on me from Andante in 19 and 21. Not sure if I am biased though because I have skimmed random pages to try to not fall to far behind and I think a wagon forms on this slot.

I like Raya for town because of 35, but someone tell me if Raya is really good at seeming natural as scum.

Ok maybe I don’t really care about Andante after all.

I went from thinking stuff like 99 was towny to now just thinking it is scummy again. So worried about Kazyan now.

Random thought, but is this multiball? I feel like it is.

Continued posting about dumb stuff from FB and Nero will be viewed as a way to avoid talking about anything real. If I recall correctly, FB did that in our last Shea game together long ago.

I like 165 from cake.

I like 188 from FB actually.

I agree with 197 from Chara but Chara is good scum so no town points for Chara unfortunately.

Hard to read opening from Pooky, I don’t really care enough atm to go reread the opening to our TM game. I’ll figure it out in ELO like Death Curse I guess.

Toadette you came after all <3 (I did have your ID spoiled during skimming). Xof can’t be scum though, we have to be pals. This does make the scenario of Toadette scum and Xof town very unlikely.

I like 317 from dwlee even though I’m less convinced 314 is scummy.

UNVOTE: xofelf

Hate these pile on votes.

VOTE: Kazyan

There’s 2 cults in this game isn’t there.

Would Pooky joke about being in a cult while actually being in a cult? The answer is obviously yes, but I’m kinda leaning town on Pooky. The problem is I’m not confident I can find Pooky scum. Alternatively, would Shea design a game where you have to publicly recruit during the day as cult? Also yes.

Farkran seems natural enough to me.

I hate 503.

577 suggests reading without posting from beeboy?

I also hate 587. Like a ton.

Dwlee we are still mindmelding after all this time, brings a smile to my face

No Norwee not you too.

Voting xof here is a mistake, I don’t think they are AI posting yet.

704 still don’t like any of Kaz’s posts.

I like 706 from Shiro.

Don’t really get why Nero is town but that’s ok.

I don’t think xof scum makes 759.

Thank you for 776, thought the same thing.

Kdowns town I think.

Anya has great posts by the way, idk if she is town but I’m really enjoying them.

Town block so far: Dwlee, Cake, xof, unwnd, kdowns, Dragons?

I was kinda skimming Raya catchup, but I like 915!

Oh hey it’s me I did it.

Nero seems fine actually.

UNVOTE: xofelf
VOTE: Kazyan

I liked this catchup

My highest tr right now is dwlee, i like the reasoning and i believe his effort is protown

I still tr kazyan, although some of his takes don't match mine, i think there's value in his approach to the game, scum wouldn't do that

I definitely agree with the tr on dwlee. Can you explain why you tr kazyan again?

btw I woke up today with a horrible hacking cough.

an allergic reaction of sorts.

I have no doubt that nefarious cat agents have been attempting to murder me in my sleep

Or maybe you're allergic to yourself

ideally the honest answer but i appreciate that honesty too.

I don't remember why .-.

This is my dumb reason for a TR of the day: This is way too honest for scum

Idea: People can find so many reasons to scumread Andante mostly because she has so many posts. Thus, more chances to say something someone dislikes, regardless of alignment.

it's so hard to scumread Kaz when they make posts like this.

i also feel like i know how they think more than most of the thread and on a day 1 like this that makes me not want to vote them.

I actually do agree with this. This post did make me hesitate a bit on my scumread but the rest of the scumminess outweighs this in my opinion.

Raya: why do you townread toadette so strongly? (obligatory: for this phase of the game)

the Kaz wagon seems to boil down to the busywork list, it just feels very easy. yes, objectively the work wasn't all that important, but it didn't take all that much effort, and when i prodded Kaz on it early on i liked the answer about simply looking for some bit of info to bite into. Nero's read on Kaz is the one i like the most, in terms of being developed.

I liked how when she entered the game she got her fluff posting out of the way then immediately got into content despite the state of the game at that point. She could have easily gotten away with just not posting content. I will admit this read is dwindling a bit with recent content but I still do appreciate the entrance.

You weren't really directing the kaz part at me but I'm gonna explain my case anyway:
Busywork of the list
503 Another example of busywork. This post was entirely inconclusive. There wasn't really a point to saying it.
625 Don't like the tone of saying the scumread on them is fair. Also don't like how they took someone's scumread on them and twisted it to be a jesterread
Also look at dwlee's case

You could say my reason to be so adamantly against Andante is that I think at worst she's limbait. That in it's essence is effecting how I am reading Andante as well

This is basically describing exactly how I feel about Andante

Another aspect of it really is the fact I'm pretty sure Beeboy is not posting because he's scum. This is something I'm not really a fan of in general. It's exactly as Pooky said where it's reaching a trust tell and it has to be stopped. I will vote Beeboy every time under this pretense and if people don't see my own interpretations then they could at least have faith that this tell is truth. The people who are skirting around the issue at this point in a confbiased perspective are just potential mates who either A) pissed at him for flaking again B) trying to not lose a partner due to dumb shit. I don't really think all partners would assume the same thing and just tell me 'oh well maybe he's just busy' but I think Norwee and Farkran's response to it was the worst. Seriously Farkran how could you possibly townread Beeboy here for like two fucking posts lol. That immediately just tripped my alarms and Norwee is again playing to the whole latching on aspect.

Part of me is worried this is an attempt at guilt tripping / scaring people into voting for beeboy for an easy miselim

So yeah to the people who hate reading

Andante wagon bad because it is cultivated by potential Beeboy partners; Andante is limbait at worst
Beeboy partners mad that Beeboy not post
Beeboy continue to not post, we should vote him

Eh, screw it, seems legit. VOTE: Beeboy

And we found our first person scared into voting

(page 50)

[Raya36]

I don't understand why we should ever eliminate a slot that doesn't even post. The allignment indicative information we'd get out of that flip if scum is zero to none. And if they flip town it's even worse.

If beeboy not posting as scum is a genuine scumtell then I think that's a valid enough reason. I'd always take a low info scumflip I'm feeling confident on over someone else who will give more info but I feel less confident on. Also we get a lot of info from the wagons and who was hesitant/who defended. Also the stuff Chara said too

i think Raya's scummy, we can talk about that.

okay, why?

Raya's toadette read stood out because she gave the reasoning as toadette having a contentful entrance in comparison to others. fine for earlygame, but Raya continued to question scumreads on the slot while catching and the read feels like it has more strength than is warranted.

that and the Kaz read, which i did talk to Raya about and i can see the angle there, but it does also seem to me like an easy read to make, you see busywork and call it scummy and then you can use that to direct the rest of your posting. i remember Raya quoting a post someone else made about how the pro posting/anti posting list was weird, but then Kaz did put out a readlist afterwards, and Raya interacted with the part about the busywork list being pointless and possibly lamisty but it didn't feel like she was really digging into why it was made.

i'd like to discuss both these points when she returns to the thread though. the problem may also be that Raya's stuck playing catchup whenever she has time to post.

I think I already discussed these points in my last post but let me know if I missed anything you want me to explain.

I mean logically it makes sense but I'm not sure that necessarily makes it town

i can see how my comment was read like that, but i was talking more about vibes than the comment making logical sense. like, Kaz saying what they want and having a strong, potentionally contentious position that gives a good idea of what sort of player they are and how they approach mafia, is why i townread them. it was just a random example of the style of Kaz's posting. the way they reacted to calls for making content earlygame also tracks with this. it just doesn't feel like they're trying to appease anybody even as they sort of went along with what i and others were saying.

Are there any other posts of Kaz's that stood out to you as towny? I do agree with the one you mentioned but I'm not seeing it the same way you are in their other posts

I recall some people TRing Toadette? why is that? I can't even remember any of their posts.

Answered in my above post

VOTE: Raya

she switched all the lights on at home and left for holiday hoping we wouldn't notice the house is actually empty

also Chara is right that her defence of Toadette feels like she has weights in her shoes

I wish I left for holiday

[Raya36]

Andante has been one of the bigger topics and I strongly believe that the reasons she's being scumread for are NAI. I wouldn't call her a townread. I just think the scumreads there are opportunistic and need to be challenged.

Why do you find the scumreads on Andante opportunistic and townread me?

Not all of them are bad. I just think Andante is miselim bait. The reason I townread you is because you have been consistently posting content and I find myself agreeing with a lot of it. I can easily follow your thought process and I'm getting the feeling you're genuinely scumhunting. I also almost never make reads based on associations of two people still alive.

Andante could normally be lynchbait but sometimes lynchbait just gets sent a scum pm. And I also think that calling some lynchbait would be a p good way to defend them. If andante is scum I could imagine that the following conversation went down in the scum pt.

Andante: shit I rolled scum. What do I do?!?
her scumbuddies: that's ok, just play up your lynchability.

Can you explain what your case is on Andante (or anyone else scumreading her)? Maybe I'm missing something but what I remember seeing so far has just been NAI to me.

[Raya36]

Can you explain what your case is on Andante (or anyone else scumreading her)? Maybe I'm missing something but what I remember seeing so far has just been NAI to me.

Well, I haven't played with most of this table before, and none of the ones who know my playstyle are voting me lmao I will admit I've meme'd more than normal this game, but I was honestly having a great time, I loved all the laughs!!! I think I have splashed of content, there was someone I read their ISO last night, found it scummy, I think their name is Shire/Shiro, I could go check, but yeah. too many people to really read all lol I've also been out all day. I'm town!!! Have no fear!! I'm just the easiest push for people right now. I also don't exactly know what my role is, so not like I can claim anything lmao thus regardless of anything, I'm not claiming lol

What did you find scummy about Shiro?

[Raya36]

Can you explain what your case is on Andante (or anyone else scumreading her)? Maybe I'm missing something but what I remember seeing so far has just been NAI to me.

Well, I haven't played with most of this table before, and none of the ones who know my playstyle are voting me lmao I will admit I've meme'd more than normal this game, but I was honestly having a great time, I loved all the laughs!!! I think I have splashed of content, there was someone I read their ISO last night, found it scummy, I think their name is Shire/Shiro, I could go check, but yeah. too many people to really read all lol I've also been out all day. I'm town!!! Have no fear!! I'm just the easiest push for people right now. I also don't exactly know what my role is, so not like I can claim anything lmao thus regardless of anything, I'm not claiming lol

What did you find scummy about Shiro?

So, in my ISO there's "Shiro feels off" but like, I don't know. Feels like Shiro is doing bare minimum to get by. the norwegian vote in 1048 feels weird too, like, norwegian is someone who is actually super easy to push, I said something on this earlier, but this vote, feels very real, not RVS. Responds 300 posts later to a comment about that vote, when asked why the wagon was bad, goes "Both it reasoning and its sudden traction." like, I really feel like this is coasting scum, I know there's not a whole lot to the ISO, which makes it an easy read, but idk I feel like this is textbook scum game. nothing in that iso says towny

I can see that. Why aren't you voting Shiro then? I thought you were voting beeboy because you didn't have anyone better to vote?

that is multiball pooky VOTE: Pooky

Why are you voting pooky for this?

I guess I'm confused why you think it is opportunism to be on Andante but haven't really named examples of such opportunism and presumably don't think so about my vote. There are three votes other than mine on Andante, which ones do you find opportunistic?

I'll respond to this either on break or after work. Not enough time now. Don't let me forget.

Once again, gonna ask why because I townread toadette

Cant say much other than vibes at the moment

But then I have the inclination to sr people like Isis, tierce so grain of salt

If I had to use words I think the best is shes iioa-y?

I thought her entrance was good and she definitely had some analysis. But I can see where you're coming from for her most recent stuff.

{Will finish the last page on break too)

[Raya36]

So uh, maybe Beeboy is scum?
I’m guessing they don’t join and just flake as town?

Does anyone know for sure that this is scum!beeboy meta? (general question, not just you norway)

raya keeps asking useful sounding questions but it's actually to distract us while she chops the treehouse down

don't let her

I would like to point out my neighbors have a treehouse and it's still standing. I support treehouses

I kinda have this belief that scum (especially newb scum) will like not react to certain posts b/c what happens is once they react and there's a back and forth it becomes bigger and shines a spotlight on them. I've asked her twice why she hasn't reacted to my initial case and she didn't even respond to that. She seems scared and I think newb scum might be scared of me.

Right. And from your case I do agree that the post about getting recruited was kind of awkward. Is Andante a newb? I was under the impression she has played a bunch elsewhere but I may be misremembering.

and I thought I had already called this out but I can't find my own post but

Anya town, Cake town, Pooky town, flow might be scum. those are my strongest reads

oh and firebringer town, xolfelf town

AND UNWND IS TOWN!!! sorry, so many names here!!

I didn't really like how she has mostly town reads b/c its

INCREDIBLY

easy for scum to call players town b/c scum already knows who is town/not on thier team. It also kinda buddys them up and incriminates them a lil when scum flips. It seemed odd to me that it was lacking kdowns as thats whom she was pushing or at least voting. Did she ever mention flow at any point before this?

Having a lot of townreads isn't good but idk if I fully agree with your reasoning since there's a good chance this game is multiball, therefore scum can scumhunt too.

I think I can get a better grasp on Raya if she actually finishes catching up and starts interacting in real time w peeps.
I think her TR on Toadette is weird. The reasoning is not very strong.

I should be much more active on weekends. It's hard when I get off work and then spend the whole evening catching up. To explain the toadette read which is better described as an early townlead: I thought her entrance was good considering gamestate and how easily a lower effort entrance could have been passed. I don't think much she has done since then has been particularly towny but I still think she deserves some credit from me for that early townread. It was never meant to be a strong read. I was just curious why some people were getting the opposite first impression as me and maybe hyped her up as a higher townread than I meant to.

I've seen Andante hyperpost like this as town, does she do this as scum or does she freeze? There's kind of a sound barrier break element where I don't want to lim someone just on being able to make a high number of posts that have some kind of topic and don't feel forced. It's just so much hard to do as scum then town and if it actually is scum putting on the ritz it often flames out in this really apparent way later on anyway

I like can't imagine this kind of slot being the best D1 elim in a 24p really

I agree with this stance. To my understanding Andante is mainly being scumread for the hyper posting and fluff which is something I know she does as town (although I'll admit I also don't know for her scum). I do think as Toadette said that as the game progresses and opportunity for tons of fluff lowers we'll get a better idea of her alignment.

The sample data for beeboys meta is the same

Do you want me to go through and check every game for the past year? I checked I think the first 4 or 5 and found him scum in all but one, and he replaced out D1 of the town game. But when he replaced in as scum he posted a decent amount (only alive one day) and shitposted in another one. I don't think the distribution you're claiming is correct.

If this is true then it makes more sense to let beeboy get replaced? It's sounding like it's not actually AI

@Toadette

Shitposty:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Replaces in + tries:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Yeah so maybe this isn't the best elim

@Toadette

Shitposty:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Replaces in + tries:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

we have very different definitions of "trying" since I used those examples as times where I played with scum!beeboy and he didn't try at all lol

He didn't fully disappear though

raya came in to ask more undercover questions and then probably saw my excellent read on her and went prone again

the murdercat's also lurking around suspiciously

Raya saw she had 10 minutes left to get ready for work and was still in bed reading the game and panicked

Are there any other posts of Kaz's that stood out to you as towny? I do agree with the one you mentioned but I'm not seeing it the same way you are in their other posts

i picked that post as an example of what i liked about Kaz, i don't really vibe with the approach of looking at certain posts in isolation and figuring out what makes them towny or scummy.

so i'm not sure i can explain the read more than i have, but i am wondering what you liked about that post specifically. is it just that there was agreement about how you felt about the Andante wagon?

We agree generally on Andante which might have been part of it but I think I moreso liked the different take on it. I hadn't thought about it like that.

Correct, the people voting me legit think I'm scum, for bad reasons :/

but you don't seem to be defending yourself against this "bad reasoning" you are just content to sit back in and let others say that you aren't scum b/c you are lynchbait....and that's a fallacy. It's like you are scared to get down in the trenches and get your hands dirty.

I have to agree with this. As much as I think Andante is elim-bait rn I wish she would defend herself a bit against the cases made.

In my past experience, people who have annoyed me like this have been scum, so I think at least 1 of nero/kdowns are scum

Um is this serious?

[Raya36]

I would like to point out my neighbors have a treehouse and it's still standing. I support treehouses

i can see the lighter fluid in your back pocket as you're saying that

Nothing better than a lovely campfire before sleeping in the treehouse

wait is that a flamethrower???

Um nothing better than a forest fire before sleeping in the treehouse

xofelf still feels very town to me.

@andante, you ignored my last post where I asked you a question

[Raya36]

I think Andante's punishment for posting so much should be to reread the entire thread and answer every missed question

[Raya36]

Um is this serious?

uhh kinda, the people who frustrate me the most are scum more than town usually, or like, it was this way on the site I used to play on, not so much true for here

Why are they frustrating you so much? Is it because you think they're scum casing you disingenuously, or is it just because you disagree with their case? I'm having a hard time understanding how frustration = scummy, especially since you said it's not fully true here.

How about your own ridiculously long ISO? That seems like a good use of everybody's time :3

I like this

[Raya36]

Taking a super quick look at the leading wagons since I don't actually have much for thoughts on a couple.

Norwegian: First content post was voting Andante (which is a wagon I disagree with), second was townreading kazy (which is a townread I disagree with). What was it from xofelf you thought was a dumbtell? Says a blind vote on a rising wagon is concerning although he voted andante blank without caring how many votes were there, and then also blank votes a few posts later. That was already addressed though. I don't really think the pushes he made on Andante are very good. Like the interpretation in 1017. Voted STD for opportunistically joining his wagon (I do think someone mentioned town Norwegian gets defensive like this though). We kind of have the same stance on beeboy.
Shiro: There's not much to say until the readslist. Not that it's necessarily AI, but I do think they genuinely want to participate more. I'd like to see some reasoning on the confident townreads. For the scumreads too.
Andante: I think I've already talked enough about Andante.
Kazyan: I think I've also talked enough about Kazy
Beeboy: Waiting for the replacement would be ideal. I'm just not fully convinced this is scum!beeboy rather than busy and overwhelmed by this massive thread beeboy.

VOTE: norwegian
Gonne move here for a bit

[Raya36]

(Also conclusion on shiro is null but I want to reevaluate after getting town/scum read reasoning)

[Raya36]

Taking a super quick look at the leading wagons since I don't actually have much for thoughts on a couple.

Norwegian: First content post was voting Andante (which is a wagon I disagree with), second was townreading kazy (which is a townread I disagree with). What was it from xofelf you thought was a dumbtell? Says a blind vote on a rising wagon is concerning although he voted andante blank without caring how many votes were there, and then also blank votes a few posts later. That was already addressed though. I don't really think the pushes he made on Andante are very good. Like the interpretation in 1017. Voted STD for opportunistically joining his wagon (I do think someone mentioned town Norwegian gets defensive like this though). We kind of have the same stance on beeboy.

VOTE: norwegian
Gonne move here for a bit

confused how this read and this vote go together considering how waffly the read is

To be clear I think Norwegian's push/reasoning on Andante is scummy and him townreading my strongest scumread isn't really helping my view of him. I thought the blank voting thing was weird so I noted it down even though it had already been addressed. I'm still concerned about the OMGUS vote regardless if someone said that's fits his town meta, because idk his meta. I noted the beeboy stance since that's a topic of interest.

[Raya36]

should we just kill waspboy now then

we got some good infographics from today

I don't like Anya's enthusiasm/rush for eliminating beeboy/ending the day

They initially voted me for being "bad vote on a bad wagon" and even though i explained the reasoning behind my vote and evolved my reads from that point they still just seem super confident and post ridiculous gifs cheering on my death.

I didn't see much for your andante read evolving? You said it was because they felt confident with votes on them and kept asking for more votes but that's all you said.

Norwee how do you feel about your wagon? Nero said that you have a stronger reaction when you're being limmed. Part of me believes that you're trying very hard not to lose your cool because that is a personality flaw you want to work on

Plus it had already been called out so he needs to be extra careful

Raya worries me because I remember not liking her reasoning about the Andante wagon. She said it felt opportunistic but didn't really expand on that. I guess this is the reminder she asked for to answer that question @Raya.

Oops, it's once again my morning catch up before work so I'm gonna have to put this question on hold again. I'll set a reminder on my phone this time though.

Taking a super quick look at the leading wagons since I don't actually have much for thoughts on a couple.

Norwegian: First content post was voting Andante (which is a wagon I disagree with), second was townreading kazy (which is a townread I disagree with). What was it from xofelf you thought was a dumbtell? Says a blind vote on a rising wagon is concerning although he voted andante blank without caring how many votes were there, and then also blank votes a few posts later. That was already addressed though. I don't really think the pushes he made on Andante are very good. Like the interpretation in 1017. Voted STD for opportunistically joining his wagon (I do think someone mentioned town Norwegian gets defensive like this though). We kind of have the same stance on beeboy.
Shiro: There's not much to say until the readslist. Not that it's necessarily AI, but I do think they genuinely want to participate more. I'd like to see some reasoning on the confident townreads. For the scumreads too.
Andante: I think I've already talked enough about Andante.
Kazyan: I think I've also talked enough about Kazy
Beeboy: Waiting for the replacement would be ideal. I'm just not fully convinced this is scum!beeboy rather than busy and overwhelmed by this massive thread beeboy.

VOTE: norwegian
Gonne move here for a bit

I disagree with this post at least in 4 different instances

1. Andante has been scummy and had a bad iso
2. Kazyan is super towny
3. Norwee is also town
4. Defending beeboy for no reason? Unless you have a different experience with beeboy than the 3 or 4 people who said he's hardlurking as scum - this is not to say beeboy is certainly scum but i dislike the contrast in confidence if there's no reason to justify that

Raya could be scum

I'm not defending beeboy for no reason... I'm just saying since people have posted threads that have beeboy posting much more than this as scum rather than just fully not being present, this may not be scum!beeboy

[Raya36]

Oops, it's once again my morning catch up before work so I'm gonna have to put this question on hold again. I'll set a reminder on my phone this time though.

i find this a more important question to answer than catching up with every post in the thread.

Yeah, I agree. I'll answer it first thing after work. I don't have time in the mornings or on break to go back and find the quotes I need.

Yeah I honestly have an easy time townreading Raya when she's town, she has good thoughts

Right now those thoughts feel ensnared in a game she can't keep up with so I can't entirely fault her

Would you guys prefer when I catch up I just read instead of trying to make a post to go along with it? It's not my usual playstyle but then I should have more time to actually play in the present.

[Raya36]

I guess I'm confused why you think it is opportunism to be on Andante but haven't really named examples of such opportunism and presumably don't think so about my vote. There are three votes other than mine on Andante, which ones do you find opportunistic?

As promised first thing: why I disliked the Andante wagon
1) The cases I have seen mainly revolve around things that are NAI for Andante and are simply playstyle indicative
2) I think Andante is someone who will be easier to sort later on
3) I this it was kazy who mentioned this: it's easier to find something wrong with someone if their iso is massive. And to add to this I would say it's even easier when a decent amount of people are annoyed by the hyper posting.
4) I think the wagon is opportunistic for a couple of reasons:
i) The cases being made are mainly playstyle which isn't something Andante can easily defend against
ii) Particular votes I found to be opportunistic:
Norwegian: The wagon wasn't big at the time bit his reasoning and the general traction of suspicion on Andante at the time made it bad.
Norwegian vote 2: Was a blank after STD joined the wagon
SirCakez: Joined the wagon because they didn't like that Andante said we can't elim her. (Had Andante in scum pool earlier, I don't see any reasoning though) (After quoted Nero's case which is an example of what I think is NAI for Andante and said he didn't like the list of who likes more posts or not)
Farkran: Joined right after SirCakez. (Earlier said Andante doesn't have a good content/post ratio. This is an example of what I think is NAI for Andante in a game that was as fluffy as this one) (after said that he liked the wagon composition)

[Raya36]

Got about 20 pages to read then I'll be here. I won't bother trying to make a catch up post so I can actually be here more

[Raya36]

Quick thoughts:

How does Kazy have me in the who are these people bin when I feel like I've been pushing them the most this game. No way they didn't notice that even if I've been on catchup mode

On Titus claim: I think I believe it. Alien cop is the worst thing to come up as a fakeclaim in an animal flavour game. (Unless Pooky is right about her going for too bad to be fake)
(I don't know much about how aliens work though)

@unwnd 2188 How did the claim practically confirm multiball if it can just be fake?

Chara's theory that the aliens are humans actually makes a lot of sense. Since to animals humans may seem alien-like in a sense

Lowering my townread on dwlee: 2307 and 2308

I'm townreading Andante now

Not liking the "who cares about my reads" from Norwegian

I'm not sure how I feel abuot Pooky being hyperfocused on beeboy/titus but I do like the transparency in 2453

What's the case on murdercat? I honestly don't remember much from them

[Raya36]

Can someone please explain the murdercat case?

[Raya36]

Or he murders the cats
(The only conversation relevant to them I can remember)

[Raya36]

Checking his iso:

His catchup at the start felt ok to me but nothing after that impressed me. Quite a few of his posts were just a sentence of him taking one of the sides of a few of the major events.

This is fine for me but I'm more interested in Kazy or Norwegian. I'll compromise to murdercat if I need to though

[Raya36]

Then we're kind of on the same page since I read murdercat's iso since a lot of his posts were just picking a side. I didn't see much original

[Raya36]

MC promised content and catchup, gave nothing.

?

Well that was a misrep

My recent wagon preference is Kazy -> Norway -> FireBringer -> MurderCat. I don't really have a fifth right now.
although I'm not super excited about FB or MC. They'd just be elims I'd be willing to compromise to.

[Raya36]

I looked over interactions last night and came up with this. Someone let me know what they think
Gonna vote here VOTE: Cakez

Spoiler: stuff

Norway asked Shiro to start an early alliance so probably not partners
Wanted Andante killed in a non-distancy way so probably not partners
Was against beeboy wagon
Asked Farkran why he was town to them. Was trying to get farkran to help the view of his slot. Would've just told his partner in the pt to do it without prompt
Defended Anya (maybe partners?)
Defended Dwlee (maybe partners?)
Flow called his vote the worst on the wagon so probably not partners

From vote counts:
Beeboy probably a cat driven counter wagon (firebringer + flow trap + MC + Anya + BHL + cakez)
MC probably a cat driven counter wagon (STD + farkran + andante + pooky + toadette + firebringer + kazy + cakez + BHL + kdowns + ivy + andante)
Don't think firebringer got enough traction to be scum driven

Those who early voted norway: (Shiro)
Those who joined when other wagons had traction: (flow, kazy, STD, anya, firebringer, ivy, MC)

Unlikely to be partners: (Kazyan, Save the Dragons, Murdercat, Andante, shiro, flow trap, Farkran, anya, Ivyeo, firebringer, xofelf)
Partnernull: (pookythemagicalbear, Titus, Flea the magician, kdowns, Brave Heart Lion, Chara, toadette)
Good chance of being partners: (Dwlee99, sircakez)

Those left to sort not just based on VC:
pookythemagicalbear - only 2 mentions of norway and they both could have been from a partner, was also on both counter wagons
Dwlee99 - defended norway early on, said norway caught for the wrong reasons, called his defensiveness playstyle, was against norway elim, maybe defended too strong to be partners?
Titus - called norway scum by vca, was too jumpy with her norway vote to be partners I think but I'm not sure
Flea the magician - Barely any mention except 1 vote
sircakez - Defended Norway a bunch, was against norway elim, was on both counter wagons
kdowns - No mention of Norway
Brave Heart Lion - called Norway scum early on, switched to leantown. Didn't really feel like distancing
Chara - Seemed kind of indifferent about norway. Said Titus elim was preference but still ok with norway.
xofelf - Had unsure but negative things about Norway in their analysis, had norway as scummiest
toadette - Not much for mentions of Norway

[Raya36]

Based on those quotes I am very nervous about Kaz, think cake is at least not aligned with mafia, think Dragons is not aligned with mafia, think Andante is not aligned with mafia, think Titus could be mafia aligned, think Shiro is not aligned with mafia, and I'm worried about flow trap.

I found from the vote counts that kaz joined the norway wagon while other wagons had traction still (same for flow too)
Why don't you think cakez is with norway again?

We agree with the rest

[Raya36]

I looked over interactions last night and came up with this. Someone let me know what they think
Gonna vote here VOTE: Cakez

Spoiler: stuff

Norway asked Shiro to start an early alliance so probably not partners
Wanted Andante killed in a non-distancy way so probably not partners
Was against beeboy wagon
Asked Farkran why he was town to them. Was trying to get farkran to help the view of his slot. Would've just told his partner in the pt to do it without prompt
Defended Anya (maybe partners?)
Defended Dwlee (maybe partners?)
Flow called his vote the worst on the wagon so probably not partners

From vote counts:
Beeboy probably a cat driven counter wagon (firebringer + flow trap + MC + Anya + BHL + cakez)
MC probably a cat driven counter wagon (STD + farkran + andante + pooky + toadette + firebringer + kazy + cakez + BHL + kdowns + ivy + andante)
Don't think firebringer got enough traction to be scum driven

Those who early voted norway: (Shiro)
Those who joined when other wagons had traction: (flow, kazy, STD, anya, firebringer, ivy, MC)

Unlikely to be partners: (Kazyan, Save the Dragons, Murdercat, Andante, shiro, flow trap, Farkran, anya, Ivyeo, firebringer, xofelf)
Partnernull: (pookythemagicalbear, Titus, Flea the magician, kdowns, Brave Heart Lion, Chara, toadette)
Good chance of being partners: (Dwlee99, sircakez)

Those left to sort not just based on VC:
pookythemagicalbear - only 2 mentions of norway and they both could have been from a partner, was also on both counter wagons
Dwlee99 - defended norway early on, said norway caught for the wrong reasons, called his defensiveness playstyle, was against norway elim, maybe defended too strong to be partners?
Titus - called norway scum by vca, was too jumpy with her norway vote to be partners I think but I'm not sure
Flea the magician - Barely any mention except 1 vote
sircakez - Defended Norway a bunch, was against norway elim, was on both counter wagons
kdowns - No mention of Norway
Brave Heart Lion - called Norway scum early on, switched to leantown. Didn't really feel like distancing
Chara - Seemed kind of indifferent about norway. Said Titus elim was preference but still ok with norway.
xofelf - Had unsure but negative things about Norway in their analysis, had norway as scummiest
toadette - Not much for mentions of Norway

thanks for doing this analysis. please step out of my suspect list for now. *opens up velvet rope and gestures*

i don't think either of Norwee's defenders (Cakes and Dwlee) are scum though.

i agree about Andante and Shiro not being partners with your reasons, and Shiro in particular looked like a real interaction that makes no sense to fake, but i wouldn't remove Fark on that basis as Fark is very aware of partner tells.

Yeah maybe I was a little too surface level with putting defenders = partners but cakez being on both counter wagons is a little suspicious on top of that.

I was unaware of that about Fark. Good to know

[Raya36]

That's some good work Raya, I like it. Dunno if I agree about Cakez, but I like the work as it gives a good place to start from.

Thanks, felt like I at least owed something after playing the catchup game all of day 1 and then the night being over the weekend when I could actually have been here

[Raya36]

If we're doing NKA Nero kill points to Andante

Why is that? Andante for other reasons feels very town to me right now

[Raya36]

Spoiler: Kaz votes with VCs

VoteCount 1.34

Titus [8]

pooky, firebringer, flow trap, MURDERCAT, anya, Brave Heart Lion, unwnd, sircakez

NorwegianboyEE [8]

shiro, flea the magician, toadette, save the dragons, raya36, Ivyeo, andante, titus

Andante [2]

Nero Cain, kdowns

shiro [1]

norwegianboyEE

anya [1]

dwlee99

raya36 [1]

chara

Murdercat [1]

farkran

pookythemagicalbear [1]

kazyan

Not Voting [ 1 ]

xofelf

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2021-05-17 20:33:31)

Closing the tab did not help and it looks like if I step away for an hour, I will come back to another 10 pages jfc

I think Andante might be genuine here; if she were scum fighting this hard to save Titus and then Titus flipped red, Andante would get yeeted on Day 2 or maybe vigged during the night. That would be too risky of a play, I think

Titus and Andante are either in two different scum teams, or are both town.

VOTE: NBEE

VoteCount 1.35

NorwegianboyEE [8]

shiro, flea the magician, toadette, save the dragons, raya36, Ivyeo, titus, kazyan

Titus [6]

pooky, firebringer, MURDERCAT, anya, Brave Heart Lion, unwnd

shiro [2]

sircakez, farkran

Andante [2]

Nero Cain, kdowns

anya [1]

dwlee99

raya36 [1]

chara

Kazyan [1]

andante

flow trap [1]

norwegianboyEE

Dwlee99 [1]

flow trap

Not Voting [ 1 ]

xofelf

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2021-05-17 20:33:31)

VoteCount 1.36

NorwegianboyEE [8]

shiro, flea the magician, toadette, save the dragons, raya36, Ivyeo, kazyan, nero cain

Titus [6]

pooky, firebringer, MURDERCAT, anya, Brave Heart Lion, unwnd

shiro [2]

sircakez, farkran

anya [2]

dwlee99, titus

raya36 [1]

chara

Kazyan [1]

andante

flow trap [1]

norwegianboyEE

Dwlee99 [1]

flow trap

pookythemagicalbear [1]

kdowns

Not Voting [ 1 ]

xofelf

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2021-05-17 20:33:31)

VoteCount 1.37

NorwegianboyEE [6]

shiro, flea the magician, raya36, Ivyeo, kazyan, nero cain

Murdercat [6]

Save the dragons, farkran, andante, pooky, toadette, unwnd

Titus [4]

firebringer, MURDERCAT, anya, Brave Heart Lion

anya [2]

dwlee99, titus

shiro [1]

sircakez

raya36 [1]

chara

flow trap [1]

norwegianboyEE

Dwlee99 [1]

flow trap

pookythemagicalbear [1]

kdowns

Not Voting [ 1 ]

xofelf

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2021-05-17 20:33:31)

VOTE: Anya to make this sporting

VOTE: Anya to make this sporting

Kaz help end the day not divide it

Fiiiiine

VOTE: Murdercat

VoteCount 1.38

Murdercat [9]

Save the dragons, farkran, andante, pooky, toadette, unwnd, firebringer, kazyan, sircakez

NorwegianboyEE [5]

shiro, flea the magician, raya36, Ivyeo, nero cain

Titus [3]

MURDERCAT, anya, Brave Heart Lion

anya [2]

dwlee99, titus

raya36 [1]

chara

flow trap [1]

norwegianboyEE

Dwlee99 [1]

flow trap

pookythemagicalbear [1]

kdowns

Not Voting [ 1 ]

xofelf

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2021-05-17 20:33:31)

VoteCount 1.41

Murdercat [ 9 ]

farkran, pooky, firebringer, kazyan, sircakez, brave heart lion, kdowns, unwnd, ivyeo

Titus [ 4 ]

anya, toadette, flow trap, flea the magician

firebringer [ 4 ]

andante, titus, save the dragons, MURDERCAT

NorwegianboyEE [ 3 ]

shiro, raya36, nero cain

anya [ 1 ]

dwlee99

raya36 [ 1 ]

chara

flow trap [ 1 ]

norwegianboyEE

Not Voting [ 1 ]

xofelf

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2021-05-17 20:33:31)

VoteCount 1.43

Murdercat [ 8 ]

farkran, pooky, firebringer, sircakez, brave heart lion, kdowns, unwnd, ivyeo

firebringer [ 4 ]

andante, titus, save the dragons, MURDERCAT

NorwegianboyEE [ 4 ]

shiro, raya36, nero cain, flow trap

Titus [ 3 ]

anya, toadette, flea the magician

anya [ 2 ]

dwlee99, kazyan,

raya36 [ 1 ]

chara

flow trap [ 1 ]

norwegianboyEE

Not Voting [ 1 ]

xofelf

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2021-05-17 20:33:31)

VOTE: NBEE

VoteCount 1.46

Murdercat [ 10 ]

farkran, pooky, firebringer, sircakez, brave heart lion, kdowns, ivyeo, norwegianboyEE, kazyan, flow trap

NorwegianboyEE [ 4 ]

shiro, raya36, nero cain, save the dragons

Titus [ 4 ]

anya, toadette, flea the magician, unwnd

firebringer [ 2 ]

andante, titus

anya [ 1 ]

dwlee99

raya36 [ 1 ]

chara

Not Voting [ 2 ]

xofelf, murdercat

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2021-05-17 20:33:31)

VoteCount 1.50

Murdercat [ 10 ]

farkran, pooky, sircakez, brave heart lion, kdowns, norwegianboyEE, kazyan, flow trap, unwnd, andante

NorwegianboyEE [ 8 ]

shiro, raya36, nero cain, save the dragons, anya, firebringer, ivyeo, MURDERCAT

Titus [ 2 ]

toadette, flea the magician

firebringer [ 1 ]

titus

anya [ 1 ]

dwlee99

raya36 [ 1 ]

chara

Not Voting [ 1 ]

xofelf

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2021-05-17 20:33:31)

kazyan you've voted norway before, why is murdercat a better option?

Oh, it's definitely not. NBEE is tied for the leading wagon now, so now I won't get chewed out for lack of commitment! VOTE: NBEE

What's norwee at? I will absolutely Not_Mafia style hammer

Also if Norwee is scum Fark is scum with him, sentiment still applies!

Dooooo it

I think 1.43 of the ones you quoted is interesting because Anya wasn't even close to the most viable counterwagon.
In 1.35 Kazy was on Norway when Titus was viable
In 1.44 went to Norway when Murdercat was viable although did move to MC, and ended up moving back to Norway

[Raya36]

Raya: my opinion on Cakes does have to do with finding him very town by play. same with Dwlee actually.

I don't have a strong read based on play. I just think he's the most likely based on what I did last night. I'll iso him tomorrow night

[Raya36]

If we're doing NKA Nero kill points to Andante

Why is that? Andante for other reasons feels very town to me right now

can you talk about this? i know why Fire TRs Andante but i'm having a hard time with the read.

in hindsight the Shiro read from her feels very "oh i need to do some actual hunting, let me give One Read that i can back up".
i'd dearly like to go over Andante's ISO and confirm this feeling but i do love myself. maybe later.

Well part of the read is still backed by how bad I found the wagon. But my actual townread started when she was vouching for Titus. That's how Andante acts as town from what I have seen and unless Titus and Andante are scum together I don't see the motivation behind it if scum.

[Raya36]

Why don't you think cakez is with norway again?

I think 658 is a pocket attempt, not a partner

Idk that's kind of weak for pocketing?

[Raya36]

Well part of the read is still backed by how bad I found the wagon. But my actual townread started when she was vouching for Titus. That's how Andante acts as town from what I have seen and unless Titus and Andante are scum together I don't see the motivation behind it if scum.

i also think the wagon wasn't very strong, but i don't think that necessarily makes Andante less likely to be scum, especially given it's multiball so scum are going to have less power to get the wagons they want. (right?)

the Titus thing does give me pause, but that's why i disagreed with Fire that they were necessarily unaligned. it's a super weird thing to do, but Andante's only town for it if Titus is telling the truth and Aliens are a thing, and i'm thinking Aliens aren't a thing. and murdercat made a good point about it being very strange she was allowed to get a result.

Yeah, you're right. That's why I had the wagon alone as null up until I started townreading Andante for other reason. Then the wagon became a supporting point.

Agreed on Titus. I'm definitely less trusting now than I was last day when the claim happened. If Titus is lying then I would assume Andante is too but that's such a weird play to make together as partners. I'm honestly just confused about the whole situation there.

[Raya36]

Idk that's kind of weak for pocketing?

Maybe I am being biased in favor of cake town

Maybe. I'm looking in as someone who doesn't really have a strong read on Cakez either way at this point. Anyone else want to look at what we both came up with for Cakez analysis?

[Raya36]

farkran should have 6 votes on him by now. i am very disappointed in u all

Why do you think farkran is scum again?

[Raya36]

why was i scumreading Raya? it really was just her being in catchup hell, i think.

also it is a weird play for Andante and Titus to make. i don't really have an explanation for that besides that Titus will do interesting things as scum if she finds it necessary, and Andante has plausible deniability by being incredibly vague and saying that "surely other players have the same thing in their role PM". Nero called this out too.

I wouldn't be opposed to a Titus elim. This needs sorting eventually and Andante is the townier of the two.

[Raya36]

farkran should have 6 votes on him by now. i am very disappointed in u all

Why do you think farkran is scum again?

intuition and wagon analysis of end of day.

I had farkran as probably not partners but for an interaction reason. But Chara said Farkran is really good at avoiding partner tells. I noted farkran to be early on the MC wagon but besides that why by wagon analysis?

[Raya36]

farkran should have 6 votes on him by now. i am very disappointed in u all

Why do you think farkran is scum again?

intuition and wagon analysis of end of day.

I had farkran as probably not partners but for an interaction reason. But Chara said Farkran is really good at avoiding partner tells. I noted farkran to be early on the MC wagon but besides that why by wagon analysis?

i have no read on Fark this game, though he's leaning towards town just due to how i feel about other slots right now, but my experience with him tells me that it's more likely he actively puts out antipartner tells with his partner as scum than fail to do so.

Maybe I should do an iso of farkran tomorrow night too after Cakez.

[Raya36]

I would like Fark to tell me more why he thinks Norwee is town.

Meta read, i played with norwee a fair amount of games. I am not 100% sure yet though it sounds like town norwee to me.

It is Unwd. And you're one of the more arrogant players i've met to think you've "caught me" because i made some light jokes in a game.

Also this is 100% town!norwee

he defends norwee pretty strongly perhaps too much

The first quote could have been testing the waters then when he decided it was safe went full defend Norway mode?

[Raya36]

I ISOed Cakez overnight as I promised I would

Cakez felt very towny to me on a reread and I'm willing to drop the interactions read I had on him for that. Also partially because there was probably too much defending happening for partners anyway. His entrance today felt very town as well.

@Pooky, why unvote Titus just because she's checked as not a dog. She could still be a cat?

VOTE: Titus

[Raya36]

I double checked on my interaction thing and I had Titus as partner null. I can check over the vote again but if I didn't consider it important on the first read through I doubt it marks them as not partners

[Raya36]

Yeah, I wrote down that she was very jumpy with her Norway vote. So I still think she's a valid partner and also the whole alien thing makes 0 sense and we now know Andante's role doesn't support her claim in any way

[Raya36]

Wasn't Titus going to be the elim because of beeboy?

[Raya36]

Why don't you like the Titus push, MC? I can't think of anything that makes sense for town!Titus right now

[Raya36]

Yes, the initial anything with that slot was due to beeboy, nothing else. But Titus since then has been... something. The more she gets no actual results, the more I'm perplexed by what she's doing here. I don't want to find out this is Titus scum again, I really like Titus town. I don't know if her play in general is just kinda like this, or if this is actually a scumtell for her.

I mean couldn't the alien cop claim thing have been a desperate attempt to not be the elim as she was set up to be?

I find it extremely unlikely that there are an alien cop and a dog cop without a cat cop though

That would put dogs at an extreme disadvantage compared to other enemy factions - maybe cats have a traitor to compensate? Maybe titus is a cat traitor or sk? Maybe kdowns is a dog rolecop that checked andante because of the pr claim?

I'm just trying to redefine associatives rn, taking notes about plausibility.

Anyways, based on the d1 VCs and vote patterns i think Toadette could very well be a cat. @pops tell me why you are not a cat?

I agree but I'm just starting to think aliens aren't even a thing at all. I thought differently when Andante was supporting it but now there doesn't even seem to be a basis for that support.

Why don't you like the Titus push, MC? I can't think of anything that makes sense for town!Titus right now

Statistically there are fewer worlds where Titus is scum as Titus is now confirmed not dog. I don't like that Isis seemed to continue the push without evaluating that information at all the way, Cake, Pooky, and myself did. I'm far from clearing Titus, but it feels like there is an agenda to push Titus beyond evidence that she is scum.

Maybe I'm wrong but there is 0 evidence of anything alien and it just doesn't make sense. I'm also not liking the way Isis is pushing. UNVOTE: for now

[Raya36]

Raya: what don't you like about Isis? it seems you agree about the Alien thing.

I'll explain later. It's not about who is being pushed which I think I agree on, it's what's being pushed

[Raya36]

Yeah, there's a good chance I'm wrong based on that but I do want to let it sit for a bit then I'll come back to it later just in case

pedit: this was at Chara's response to me

[Raya36]

I'm not opposed to pooky

[Raya36]

Maybe I'm wrong but there is 0 evidence of anything alien and it just doesn't make sense. I'm also not liking the way Isis is pushing. UNVOTE: for now

Yeah I mean I still think there is weirdness related to Titus and that she is probably a fine flip for today. But like, I want to do due diligence and show partner relationships make her being a cat likely because when I wanted to flip her it was because she seemed like a dog.

Iso Titus and ctrl+F norwegian. I found that she was quite jumpy with her vote on Norway but I'm not sure that's what you're looking for.

Also i've been thinking that dwlee was probably killed by cats believing he could be town, which could mean that some of his reads were threatening (2921)

Although anya doesn't really fit as a cat based on vca

Maybe pooky is actually a cat pushing beeboy to save norwee? Hmmm

Wait why do you think they thought dwlee was town?

? what like 7 different people are on Titus

I think Raya and I are on the same page, it's the manner in which it happened

Yes, we might be. There's also a specific post

I will be much more on board with Titus push if someone shows she is partners with norwee.

I'm way too tired for this now but remind me tomorrow evening and I'll look into it. (nvm dragons beat me to it, I'll read it in more detail tomorrow)

[Raya36]

Also i've been thinking that dwlee was probably killed by cats believing he could be town, which could mean that some of his reads were threatening (2921)

Although anya doesn't really fit as a cat based on vca

Maybe pooky is actually a cat pushing beeboy to save norwee? Hmmm

Wait why do you think they thought dwlee was town?

Not many people scumreaded dwlee, i personally townreaded him strongly, and he received almost no votes

Maybe but scum have a different perspective than us. It's possible they scumread dwlee and because of the lack of scumreads they didn't bother trying to push the elim and went for the nk instead. Don't think this is dependable but idk

Town Pooky is usually much more into the game and should have a strong scumread or two by now. Not just wanting to flip Titus for fun.
VOTE: Pooky

[Raya36]

Maybe but scum have a different perspective than us. It's possible they scumread dwlee and because of the lack of scumreads they didn't bother trying to push the elim and went for the nk instead. Don't think this is dependable but idk

Town Pooky is usually much more into the game and should have a strong scumread or two by now. Not just wanting to flip Titus for fun.
VOTE: Pooky

rayas scum theres no way she believes i decide to nightkill dwlee r u serious

Those points aren't connected. I'm having trouble keeping track of the theories of who killed who so I'm just ignoring that and scumhunting as I normally would.

[Raya36]

@Pooky, can you show where cakez forgot he was scumreading you?

[Raya36]

@Pooky, can you show where cakez forgot he was scumreading you?

pull up cakez iso

F5 "Pooky"

notice how many posts he writes about how he thinks im scum?

then he follows me to vote titus

then he follows me to vote murdercat

then he wants to open with a vote on toadette

dude loves shading me with a magic marker but is too sissy to vote for me until he sees people actually giving him an opening cuz the last game he played where he tried to solo push me I ate him and killed his entire scum team.

But why can't those be independent reads? I follow people I scumread sometimes

[Raya36]

raya what do you usually eat for dinner

Had pasta last night

I think you lim people who aren't town and if they flip the opposite faction from what you hoped it's fine.

VOTE: pooky

i mean if we're all going to accept that people should follow their SRs

then all of my fans that are voting me should definitely follow me on this vote

VOTE: Raya

let's go

VOTE: Raya
-

PookyFan1473

I don't like the way your jumping around at all. In fact its coming off very scummy

Mod note moved text out of quote at request of player

I'll admit I'm a little biased here but I agree

Anyways. I feel like braveheart pushing me is towny.

Pooky is still a mystery, i don't particularly scumread him but i don't understand several of his plays, i.e. his pushes don't look like coming from town although the tone does

*goes reading norwee iso while writing*

I think cakez is TMIed non-cat by norwee's 658.

Post 685 about xofelf has a different nuance though, i will need to cross-check xofelf again.

Posts wrt STD 769 and 1192 could be theatrics? But i don't scumread STD so i'll leave it at that

Flow trap probably non-cat based on 1110, i don't think that's a question you ask to a scumpartner. Also there's more in 2424,2474, 2668 and a lot more going forward in his iso. Doesn't look like theatrics.

1304 and 1505 don't sound like how you would address a scumpartner, wrt titus. It seems like they're defending the slot without actually committing to save them

1945 sircakez could actually be a cat and that could be a good reason why i'm alive :\

Want this in my iso because there are some good points

fark is just scum here lol

Funny, you said the same thing to me when I voted you

Meh ok then, chara pretty much literally said it lol

I am a DOG DOCTOR. I protect people from dog attacks only.

I healed Nero Cain n1 and that's how i know he wasn't killed by dogs.

I healed kdowns n2 and that's how, i think, we're missing a dog kill.

I've been crumbing this literally FOREVER.

See you again in another game after i die tonight, i tried my best but my results were only bad reads and 4 votes ln d3. Please carry me.

P.S. i still think pooky is scum

This makes sense.

I'm not as confident on Pooky as I am that Titus' claim is unlikely in a cats vs dogs game. Aliens just don't make sense and the whole Andante thing has thrown me off on this.
I want Titus, if not Pooky, and if not I wouldn't be upset about Toadette.

[Raya36]

Oops, I forgot to change my vote last post.
VOTE: Titus

I still believe Farkran's claim. I think the confusion is genuine. Kind of a stretch to think he's a traitor and he made up this flavour but got it wrong or whatever. Pretty sure he was just genuinely confused on who is who.

Had pasta last night

lasagna perhaps?

Just regular spaghetti, do not worry

[Raya36]

a likely story

But what do

you

normally eat for supper

Yeah, Spaghetti is like a Tuesday food

Tuesday, Thursday, same thing. Both start with a T

Happy cake day Raya!

Thank you!!

[Raya36]

Hm but you know who else salmon is a signature dish for....

[Raya36]

Well good thing both Thursday and Town start with a T

[Raya36]

Think smaller. On land. With claws

[Raya36]

happy cake day Raya!

Thanks Cakez!

Think smaller. On land. With claws

crabs? sure i guess

You need to think with all the facts. Crabs don't eat fish. Think furrier, and purrs

Checking in for today

For clarity: in my flavor picture there are both a mongoose and a snake. The snake is larger and it makes sense with my role, so i assumed rikki tikki tavi was the snake. Turned out it is the mongoose, but it was my mistake, not the mod's - although the mod could send me the picture that pooky posted in 4461 to avoid confusion, even if i don't think this would matter. I have crumbed my role many times over the three days, told you my results before claiming, and you can see by yourself they are consistent with what happened so far. This is what matters.

That being said, dogs will kill me no matter what, otherwise they will have to go in elo against mech-cleared people by kdowns. We also know they do not have a roleblocker, because kdowns was able to claim a result today, so i simply have to die tonight.

I don't get how my claim could be doubted when, if i were to be scum, i would likely be either the last of the dogs or the cats among 18 players. To believe i would get to elo and win, and using this as a base to push me today makes no sense. Even if i was a cat traitor, i would just have helped my faction lose earlier.

I don't think this mistake makes much sense for scum!Fark compared to town!Fark. I don't even get why this is being argued about. It's clearly a genuine mistake in not being familiar with the characters. Scum usually thinks out their fakeclaims better anyway and likely would have done some googling. Fark would likely know he's not the snake if he were scum.

Think smaller. On land. With claws

Bear?

This is a very valid answer but simply incorrect

[Raya36]

Do otters purr?

[Raya36]

I looked it up!

Otters purr!!!

[Raya36]

Incredible

[Raya36]

Anya is the cat of course.

Unfortunately not an otter. They are much friendlier

[Raya36]

I hope there's a red herring (the animal) in this setup cause that would be a funny joke

This would be great

Anya is the cat of course.

Unfortunately not an otter. They are much friendlier

how dare you

other animals are capable of meowing don't stereotype please meow

Please enlighten me

[Raya36]

And yet again, a valid point from flow

[Raya36]

In the collective, I doubt they are all town. That doesn't mean Titus isn't scum but that's what I am expressing.

Flea is probably who I am most worried about

But don't forget that this is multiball

There's probably no scum on the Pooky wagon. It's blatantly obvious that I was wagoned again to save Pooky. I have a dog clear and I am not a cat due to the wagons.

I'm at the point where I'm leaning the most towards you being 3rd party. So I wouldn't be all that surprised if there is truth to this. But right now I feel more confident you flip scum over Pooky.

[Raya36]

Happy birthday dragons!

only the alien SK could've known Titus was for reals

VOTE: Something Smart

Isn't this logic flawed? Not like the alien sk would defend the one person who can find them and also out themselves in this way at the same time

I plan to read through some stuff later and reevaluate my reads

[Raya36]

Oh wow Chara was scum and fooled me.

I deserve to lose.
Not that I should let my brain do that I'll play to my wincon and stuff

Did this sound weird to anyone else?

Why is raya scummy I think i feel pocketed by her

i can't remember now tbh but i remember thinking it was likely a day or two ago

and since then she's just been skiing

And as far as I know dogs and cats can't ski

Dragons feels town in these latest posts

i cant really remember much from Kazyan either

I only remember that I scumread Kazy but I felt better after the replacement so maybe it was a playstyle thing.

VOTE: toadette
This is really my only firm scum read. There's just a lot that seems very off to me. It hasn't felt right at all. To the point I really wanna look into it. Im not big on the other wagons. Just to much to question. This has already been a very confusing game.

VOTE: UC Voyager

did people miss this post

let me divide what he said into separate lines:

------

This is my only firm scum read.

There's just a lot that seems very off to me.

It hasn't felt right at all.

To the point I just wanna look into it.

Im not big on the other wagons.

Just to much to question.

This has already been a confusing game.

------

about as organic as an apple that was made out of raw compost except the compost is actually made out of copper

Actually maybe I was on to something and shouldn't have let it die out on replacement. I want to go here for a bit
VOTE: Psyche

I'll still try to do my reread on everyone tonight or tomorrow night. It's been busy and I've been really tired

[Raya36]

Finally got around to this. This is where I'm at right now. I'll be around to post more tomorrow. I barely slept the past 3 nights so I'm way too tired to think anymore

kdowns

sircakez

Save the Dragons

something_smart

Brave Heart Lion

shiro

flow trap

xofelf

Flea the magician

toadette

anya

pookythemagicalbear

Psyche

[Raya36]

in multiball you mean? it doesn't mean much to say "well this scum pushed me therefore I can't be scum" because you could just be scum on the other team

In pookys case

Being pushed by both dogs and cats, and him pushing both are being completely ignored.

Good catch. I took a look and my thoughts are below. I think I want to put pooky up a group into the blue

Spoiler: pooky interactions

Norway: nothing partner clearing from norway, pooky lightly called norway out twice which felt more like shading than distancing (don't get what he's doing, norway can do something useful like..)
Chara: speaking about not noticing pooky's post felt unaligned, voted Pooky, pushed and challenged pooky in a way that didn't feel like partners
Firebringer: nothing partner clearing (although their interactions didn't feel partner-y)
Dwlee: scumread pooky in a natural way that appeared to be cat hunting, stayed consistent, pooky called dwlee scummy too

[Raya36]

in multiball you mean? it doesn't mean much to say "well this scum pushed me therefore I can't be scum" because you could just be scum on the other team

In pookys case

Being pushed by both dogs and cats, and him pushing both are being completely ignored.

Good catch. I took a look and my thoughts are below. I think I want to put pooky up a group into the blue

Spoiler: pooky interactions

Norway: nothing partner clearing from norway, pooky lightly called norway out twice which felt more like shading than distancing (don't get what he's doing, norway can do something useful like..)
Chara: speaking about not noticing pooky's post felt unaligned, voted Pooky, pushed and challenged pooky in a way that didn't feel like partners
Firebringer: nothing partner clearing (although their interactions didn't feel partner-y)
Dwlee: scumread pooky in a natural way that appeared to be cat hunting, stayed consistent, pooky called dwlee scummy too

Hasn't pooky been saying that

Maybe, I can't remember. I take stuff like that less seriously when it's self-defense though

[Raya36]

in multiball you mean? it doesn't mean much to say "well this scum pushed me therefore I can't be scum" because you could just be scum on the other team

In pookys case

Being pushed by both dogs and cats, and him pushing both are being completely ignored.

Good catch. I took a look and my thoughts are below. I think I want to put pooky up a group into the blue

Spoiler: pooky interactions

Norway: nothing partner clearing from norway, pooky lightly called norway out twice which felt more like shading than distancing (don't get what he's doing, norway can do something useful like..)
Chara: speaking about not noticing pooky's post felt unaligned, voted Pooky, pushed and challenged pooky in a way that didn't feel like partners
Firebringer: nothing partner clearing (although their interactions didn't feel partner-y)
Dwlee: scumread pooky in a natural way that appeared to be cat hunting, stayed consistent, pooky called dwlee scummy too

Hasn't pooky been saying that

Maybe, I can't remember. I take stuff like that less seriously when it's self-defense though

Why, that seems not useful

Well I don't really mean to, it's more subconscious.

Yeah, I ISOd Flow and I didn't understand 30% of what they were saying

You say that as a joke but there's a reason you're still in my null pile

[Raya36]

I think Fen has a high probability of flipping anti-town, and I think so with Pooky as well. I know that Pooky can't be Dog, but with how yesterday with Titus and now with Psyche who hasn't had a chance to get into the game. Just kinda stinks of opportunism.

I don't get the dragons scumread at all

Anya, why is it when i think about your slot i can't tell you a single opinion or stance you've held all game? This bothers me. I know you've voted places and you've posted a fair bit, but you're this space of null in a way that I don't exactly like. Why is that?

Anya has spent the whole game jumping around, pushing me in a way that reads more like a joke or only semi-serious, and pushing titus-slot. That's why I have her in my scum pool. There were a few other things I disliked too like the rush to elim beeboy-slot, and pushing Psyche for not having caught up yet when there appears to be valid reasons for why not.

I'd actually rather give Psyche a chance to at least catch up and share some thoughts (although I do still scumread the slot) and vote for the next most scummy instead.
VOTE: Anya

[Raya36]

Can someone explain the SS scumread? (Besides the wagon analysis Psyche did)

I'm most interested in Anya, then Psyche next. I could compromise to Flow but I'm not super interested in that elim.

[Raya36]

he would be playing as town

Citation needed? I'm lurky as town sometimes, especially as a late replacement.

Yeah I was about to ask for this if you have any games in mind where this happened

[Raya36]

we could vote VOTE: raya instead she's only voting me bc i've been calling her out all game

You've been making jokes about me being scum but none felt serious yet you still seem to have a serious scumread on me. That's my problem

I think Fen has a high probability of flipping anti-town, and I think so with Pooky as well. I know that Pooky can't be Dog, but with how yesterday with Titus and now with Psyche who hasn't had a chance to get into the game. Just kinda stinks of opportunism.

I don't get the dragons scumread at all

Anya, why is it when i think about your slot i can't tell you a single opinion or stance you've held all game? This bothers me. I know you've voted places and you've posted a fair bit, but you're this space of null in a way that I don't exactly like. Why is that?

Anya has spent the whole game jumping around, pushing me in a way that reads more like a joke or only semi-serious, and pushing titus-slot. That's why I have her in my scum pool. There were a few other things I disliked too like the rush to elim beeboy-slot, and pushing Psyche for not having caught up yet when there appears to be valid reasons for why not.

I'd actually rather give Psyche a chance to at least catch up and share some thoughts (although I do still scumread the slot) and vote for the next most scummy instead.
VOTE: Anya

also important to note she only finally expressed this opinion after xofelf had laid down the cement for her

No, I have you in my scum section of my readslist that I made maybe 10 or so posts before that

[Raya36]

it's not that serious raya it's a feeling if i had sunglasses to hand out i'd be packaging them right now

So it's a gut read on me?

[Raya36]

I mean yes

that's not

necessarily

a scum pooky thing, but it could be

I wasn't really fully on board with the TMI thing but then this reads exactly like "I'm gonna pretend to defend potential cw, Pooky, but not completely eliminate the possibility".

[Raya36]

So Psyche and SS are either conftown or very likely town

Pooky vs Anya vs Raya is probably better

I'd love to but I townread Pooky and all Anya has given me is a gutread.

[Raya36]

Biggest wagon, most likely to get us to night fast so we can let scum decide the game

Huh? Do you think I'm town then?

I'm not liking Shiro's take. Lie detector doesn't make much sense as a scum role besides for power role hunting, but the chances of a claim being worth detecting is low. I guess you could use it as we did, as scum, to try to find the other scum but it's very weak compared to a cop which we've already seen from scum.
What I can believe more is Shiro thinks the claim is a gambit. But I don't think it makes any sense to think it's a scum role with what we've seen so far.

[Raya36]

how would you expect a town lie detector to respond after being called out as scum the day after he cleared a townie who was about to be executed

I mean, your role means nothing, if you are last scum in a faction, clearing one townie you know you can kill(and who will likely be killed anyway) is good play.

It garners town cred, creates targets fur the opposite faction at the cots 9f what? Stopping one lynch on town!? So what? Town went and derpes killed Anya afterwards.

Scum had a cop ffs, lie detector means nothing to me.

P. Edit

And I mean look at brave coming in here with probably the worst reads spewed in the game so far.
I love the coincidence that the person most advocating his lynch is also most scum read pike.

I think S_S has like townslipped because he think it is 7v2v2 when it is probably actually 8v1v1v1 because a scum faction wouldn't shoot a cop cleared slot unless it was the latter and psyche was cop cleared.

I don't think we can be certain enough of anything set-up related to count it as a township

[Raya36]

It feels like it comes from someone with a scum win condition

Like, for a dog if we townbin someone who is a cat for mechanics reasons, the win percentage of the cat is almost zero

For a townie, if we townbin someone for mechanics reasons but that person -could- be scum actually, they could just also be town for different reasons and we still win

I guess town binning a dog is also a loss

My thoughts make no sense huh

I don't know how to explain how it feels like a scumpost

I just swear it feels like a scumpost

the way I think about it is.

Town don't want to express paranoia on a "cleared" slot cuz in multiball if a "cleared" slot is actually scum, there's a good chance the other scum team just shoots the cleared slot so you don't have to worry about it.

Scum do want to express paranoia on cleared slots because they want to keep the PoE wide enough for their team to survive and not get elimmed.

Since there's a lot of debate here, just to be clear on my stance I'm not saying SS isn't almost for sure town by mechanics. I said earlier I don't think lie detector is a scum role in this setup. I just don't think anyone making any guesses on mechanics should be considered townslipping.

[Raya36]

Since there's a lot of debate here, just to be clear on my stance I'm not saying SS isn't almost for sure town by mechanics. I said earlier I don't think lie detector is a scum role in this setup. I just don't think anyone making any guesses on mechanics should be considered townslipping.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here

who is townslipping?

Toadette said that SS townslipped because they said the set-up is 7v2v2 when it's more likely something else.

I'm saying we don't know enough to call that a townslip.

[Raya36]

ill be honest i dont think you are actually scumhunting xof

it feels to me more like you are playing a game of survivor.

I actually really agree with this. I've had Xofelf in my null but I've been thinking they could be the sk or alien or whatever it is just as a gut read based on this sort of attitude. Pooky is right, their reads seem to be based more on liking/disliking the player/playstyle. Pooky was bad energy and maybe playstyle, liking Flea, liking SS, etc. The rest were quite surface level. Cakez for content posting, SS is logical and consistent but scum could be too, me for making good points that make sense, etc

VOTE: xofelf

[Raya36]

does scum xofelf bother making 5230? hmm

I think it's possible since there have been little bits of pressure towards them lately. It looks like a lot at a skim but if you read through it there are hardly any strong stances (for good reason)

[Raya36]

The only good thing Raya had done this game is somehow be the one aware I am town, but she really hadn't done a lot to convince me that came from outside her role PM, and it's an easy prophecy that she will not stop this push

Well you're gonna like me less for this but you're in my null actually. I also think I listed you as someone I could compromise to a while back too. The townread on you was early game

[Raya36]

Oops, I've been prodded. The game kind of slowed down so it didn't feel like much had happened.

I'm still happy with xofelf. It still feels to me they've been coasting and that last reads list felt like trying to get by with minimal stances.

But seeing as deadline is soon I'm fine with compromising to toadette. I've given my reasons for this already. Toadette is someone who at the very least does not read as town to me. I had her marked down as someone who could be partners with the cats. The "wow Chara fooled me" thing felt off too. There's also nothing interaction wise to clear her from being a dog yet she tried to say she shouldn't be because she pushed dwlee. There was no push. The only thing I could find close to a push was "dwlee are you mafia?"

[Raya36]

I still don't think Toadette has done anything since when I voted to be townread for. I'm still ok with that elim. Any takers for Xofelf, I'd be happy moving back there.
VOTE: xofelf

@somethingsmart, why are you voting for me? You have no mentions of me in your iso outside of votes

[Raya36]

Do you even scumread me or is it just deadline convenience?

[Raya36]

I'm maggie from home on the range and I'm a 1-shot bulletproof.

It seems I'm mainly a convenience wagon at this point which kind of sucks

[Raya36]

I'll be around for another 15m or so but then I gotta get to sleep

[Raya36]

I'm still happy with a toadette elim for the reasons I gave before and honestly this whole I could be town I could be scum, maybe best to just elim the bp claim is bad. I don't think std's posts just now were all that bad. They were at least better than ss. Plus I had a pretty string townread on std before. Moving back to toadette and logging off for the night

VOTE: toadette

[Raya36]

Xofelf's claim sounds believable as long as we don't get a counterclaim. I need to reassess my reads. I was really thinking they were the alien

Somewhat v/la, I got a kitten

[Raya36]

You don't believe the claim?

[Raya36]

Yeah, I guess so.

How about, why don't you believe the claim?

[Raya36]

Can you explain why you don't believe the claim?

[Raya36]

So you do believe the claim

[Raya36]

I know I was scumreading xof before but why would they choose something to fakeclaim that has a decent chance to be CCed as scum? We already knew of a similar role. But then again, why does brave CC in this situation as scum too.

@Brave, what's the reasoning behind the actions if you remember?

[Raya36]

Kazyan>kdowns>Shiro>kdowns>something_smart

Like I said, not been doing a great job >.>

Xof did

[Raya36]

Is it possible BHL isn't lying about his role either? Cuz I know I'm not. And of those are who he protected, it makes the ones that still died dog or alien kills, no?

No it's definitely you or them.

What I said, weird ass mechanics like a role copy. Target N0, gain that persons role. I've submitted similar to one of the GIM threads before.

No clue if Shea will drop that in or not and seems weird for the setup but ya know, I'm void braining this lol

Then why would you ever even counterclaim if you know their role is the same? We flip them then assume the CC was a lie and they become the next elim. No winning that.

[Raya36]

Well extremely likely

I should stick with my gut and normal counterclaim protocol.

VOTE: Xof

[Raya36]

Are they the only 2 claims?

I think so unless I'm forgetting something?

[Raya36]

Are we to assume that the alien is the only scum left?

If so, then I guess BHL has to be town.

I think this is a fair assumption at this point. I think probably just 1 though?

[Raya36]

Mass claim sounds like a good idea to me

I have already claimed so just Flea and Flow?

[Raya36]

I'm maggie from home on the range and I'm a 1-shot bulletproof.

[Raya36]

I'll go then, Jerry from Tom and Jerry. VT.

Yeah, I don't believe this. We already have a flipped mouse. VT is the safest claim to make too.

VOTE: Flea

[Raya36]

We do. I don't think we've had doubles in flavour outside of the scum factions as far as I remember? I think Flea might be our scum for that.

[Raya36]

Who are the other flipped rabbits?

[Raya36]

Toadette, obviously. And Nero looks like one as well.

Hm ok, then I'm definitely wrong about the flavour being an issue. I am still most suspicious of a VT claim though.

UNVOTE: for now until I read over some stuff

[Raya36]

That doesn't really make much sense considering we probably only have 1 scum left

[Raya36]

VOTE: Raya
Lets go for this..

There's no bulletproof flips that I recall, I'll go check in a moment, a solo alien is going to need more than kill capability. Mechnics and flavour fits for me. Yes flavour is not the be all and end all, given Bojack was the alien hunter. but what other creature do you associate with aliens?

Yes this is a stretch, this is all I've got rn, and lets face it it's less of a stretch than Raya's position on me. If I'm wrong then we've got 1 more and it's either mom for the bad CC which I am stupidly conflicted over, or S_S.

That's a massive stretch Flea. The alien is probably just called an alien and somebody here is lying about their flavour altogether. And I've taken back what I said about your claim. I had forgotten we had doubles in flavour and that immediately rang alarm bells in my head.

We're running low on time so I am going to stick with my gut here and vote the VT claim who is pushing me as alien because I'm a cow and also still pushing me for something I recognized the error in. I think fae makes the most sense as the alien.

VOTE: Flea

[Raya36]

Great job Brave and good game everyone else! I'm super happy we were able to pull it off!

i can't believe the rats thought i was their traitor because i decided to claim rat. that's beautiful. it's exactly what we did with Fark.

i also love how the one time i'm actually nightkilled by scum it's when i'm also scum... big f.

I was fully convinced for a bit! It made perfect sense

I'M SORRY FUCKING RAT MAFIA!?

This is the reason why we were able to stay undetected for so long! Who would ever expect a rat mafia lol