Anything uPick (Endgame)

[jjh927]

Ah cool day has started

Greetings

[jjh927]

Yeah I haven't cooked for myself in a while since I've been living with my mum but that should change soon


Also none of my picks were beans, although one of them was an absolute being which is pretty close

[jjh927]

VOTE: Not Known 15

[jjh927]

I think my actual flavour may have forced RC to watch youtube lets plays due to lack of other information sources unless he was very cool and actually played the game

[jjh927]

Which one of you is in charge?

[jjh927]

Just caught up on phone but won't be doing a lot of posring till I get back home later

actually i just remembered this is a bastard game, surely nk15 isn't some sorta role that venges the first person to vote them haha right

I voted nk15 in rvs so you're good- I'm down on the vc as not voting so I take that as NK15 being unvotable at present, although this is the kind of thing for which a post from the mod or even the starting votecount being in place at the start of the game would have been great.

Note that the votecount specifies 22 alive. NK15 is just gone.



VOTE: Cheeky wings

[jjh927]

How many times have you asked me that question Nancy?

[jjh927]

I'd say pretty much every game I remember where I've voted you at any point, particularly often in the early game and including your scumgame, you have asked me that question and called me scum for reading you wrong

I do fairly often give you the benefit of the doubt but surely by now you have realised that my read accuracy isn't a result of my precognitive abilities and is instead based on your reactions to things like me voting you?

[jjh927]

and because i'm not scumreading either of those slots and don't want a spammy back and forth that helps nobody:

jjh, can you please link some of those games where you correctly/incorrectly voted nancy?

Round my dad's and was posting between dinner and board games

Will post when I am home- going back shortly

Will also cross reference nancy doing the "You are wrong on your read on me so you must be scum" bit in a scumgame

[jjh927]

Just as town!Nancy has an unrealistic expectation of my ability to read her- more the speed with which I do so than the accuracy which I happily agree is strong- scum!Nancy is equally scared of my ability to read her and is prone to doing this whole "jj scumreads me so he is scum" bit in a more overdramatic and unrelenting way than town!Nancy does. In this instance, I think it is more of a scum one than a town one- jury is still out but Nancy won't pay attention to that in her reaction to this post- and people who write off Nancy's inevitable omgus tunnel as town are amateur Nancy readers

[jjh927]

lol i remember when i hydra'd with nancy i had to tell her to relax and let the moment pass when we were getting scumread by you

That's what I mean- scum!Nancy is particularly scared of my personal ability to read her and is prone to more paranoid and panicked play when I do so than if I was scumreading town!Nancy.

I'll be home shortly and will quote some other games

[jjh927]

I am really detecting a sense of urgency in those Nancy posts

[jjh927]

jjh

, do you mind if I have you HW and you ISO me?

I'm unfamiliar with you.

By that you mean you want me to go through your iso and pick out some bits and comment? That's not generally my style but I'm game. I prefer to talk about specific reads and things in present real time in order to develop reads, and talking to someone about themself only really works if I'm pushing them

[jjh927]

Well damn, upon looking through a bunch of games it turns out that by some absurd set of coincidences I have never at any point voted Nancy in a game where we were both town, however I have voted her every single time I was town and she was scum, and also sometimes when I was scum and she was town

My actual reference material on how the reaction varies from town!nancy to scum!nancy is a combination of hypotheticals and the times I've voted her as scum and I have clearly misremembered times when we have both been town and I have correctly placed her after initially voting and gauging reaction.

Pretty sure she has done the "how could you read me wrong" thing every single time I've voted her though

[jjh927]

Actually it looks like scum!jjh hasn't ever voted town!Nancy either. Lemme know if I missed any- although I'm obviously not counting team mafia contribution

Animals upick 2 - I was town hydraed with alisae but did all the heavy lifting. Nancy was scum hydraed with Pooky. Nancy was very jumpy, and misinterpreted a fairly minor post I made as me scumreading her before doing the "jj can't be reading me wrong as town" thing
Pokemon Battles - I was town. Nancy was town hydraed with pooky. I never voted Nancy.
Townstumps Mafia -I was town. Nancy was town hydraed with dkkoba. This is the game that dkkoba was talking about.
Happy face mafia -I was scum. Nancy was town hydraed with pooky and nora. I decided I'd locktown the hydra, so I never voted Nancy.
Post apocalypse upick - I was town hydraed with alisae. Nancy was town hydraed with Titus and Auro. I never voted Nancy.
Booneytoonz upick - I was town. Nancy was town hydraed with shiro. I never voted Nancy.
A story revisited - I was town. Until rep out, Nancy was town hydraed with Disquieted. I never voted Nancy.

[jjh927]

The funniest thing though is that actually I was just lazily voting the name that was third on the Ircher wagon because I didn't think any sane townie would follow Gamma's vote there, and hadn't actually clocked that Nancy was in that slot when I was voting. I mainly decided to stick with it because of the overreaction

We were 20 pages in- I'm not gonna have a super duper 100% guaranteed or-your-money-back level scumread on anyone, and Nancy treating it like one is exactly the sort of paranoia I saw in animals upick 2

[jjh927]

The fact that I throw votes about like this is what really made surprised at what stars aligned to make it so I've never voted town!Nancy before in any game ever

Pedit: Koba, I haven't paid enough attention to you to have a strong read at the moment, but I am leaning town.
Gamma- ask Koba about Nancy's reaction in townstumps and how different it would have been without koba. Also, note that sometimes, when you are comparing 2 data points, they are just different

[jjh927]

Good take

[jjh927]

I am reading your posts, especially the ones where you accuse me of not reading your posts because you did that as scum in animals upick 2

[jjh927]

I mean, going forward I'll be more interested in your interactions with people other than me that also aren't based on those people voting you, because we aren't gonna get any more useful content between us. I am parking my vote for now because I don't think I'm gonna do any more aggressive placing and you're my best lead currently. I recall that your slot has put out some reads but I don't recall how much of that was cheeky and also haven't seen you hydra with cheeky so I don't know how your dynamic might be affected

[jjh927]

ok yeah this is scum pooky like he was in grand idea lmao

Are you sure because I think it's town!fire

[jjh927]

Fairly busy yesterday but I'm planning on catching up on stuff today. I have now been offered a job but I'm not starting for like 3 weeks

Was skimming stuff on phone yesterday and am happy to UNVOTE: Cheeky, but I need to reread particularly the bits I only half remember

I recall a question from Koba about the difference I perceive between town and scum Fire and I think it's important to note that while Fire's primary objective is to have fun, he is still playing the game and I don't think he's actually that hard to read when you have a good sample of actual content. Also I recall a Pooky post that explained why Koba scumread him specifically and I think that resolves everything regarding my reads on GLB and Koba and Koba's read on GLB

[jjh927]

Oh goddamnit why did koba get killed

[jjh927]

I see Gamma expecting death and posting all those anime gifs rather than reads,

particularly starting with a gif of the character he was scum as when he replaced into my recent upick

, and I honestly expect a gamma scumflip

[jjh927]

Oh goddamnit why did koba get killed

toog bombed them.

I know that; the real question is why would toog bomb them and claim they bombed gamma and get my hopes up while I'm reading through the game only to dash them into the ground

[jjh927]

I was planning on discussing reads with Koba today but I will settle for Taly if he is around

[jjh927]

I see Gamma expecting death and posting all those anime gifs rather than reads,

particularly starting with a gif of the character he was scum as when he replaced into my recent upick

, and I honestly expect a gamma scumflip

But why would he post that knowing you would recognize it? He’s enough of an experienced player to know toog could still change his mind.

Because he was lolcatting

[jjh927]

JJh best player. sheep forever

He sr me initially, so no.

Don't take it personally. Pressure is used to place people. I lazily voted you because of the Ircher vote without acknowledging that your hydra included you and decided to keep pressure on because why not?

Mafia is not a game of static reads and read accuracy is about being right at the end, not right at the start. Being right at the start is luck.

[jjh927]

who is we

i still think gamma flips red here

Yeah and I also don't like the Datisi pivot to a plausible counterwagon on Nancy hydra while I was still hanging out there

[jjh927]

i am not sure why jjh thinks i would actually push one of the loudest slots in the game that i know have a 125% chance of omgusing me into oblivion, but something something self meta

jjh, what didn't you like about my vote? other than it being a "counterwagon attempt".

Do you think that voting you for reasons you perceive as bad after she changes her mind on a whim to be something that only scum!nancy does or would town!nancy do that too

[jjh927]

Oh, my bad, scumreading you rather than voting you

[jjh927]

Just got to this post

question to anyone

except

for nancy: has she ever done the "omfg i am so blazingly obvtown you're a fucking moron for even breathing wrong my way" thing as scum?

Yes. Go find my post where I link every game I've played with Nancy that I could find

[jjh927]

Probably worthwhile for comparison because if you look at the continued interactions with me which I said I wasn't interested in but actually really was, you need to determine whether it is a desperate attempt to get me to stop scumreading her or if she is actually genuinely annoyed at me for scumreading her. It's the latter in this case

[jjh927]

Okay Gamma wagon is definitely cool but I've decided I'm gonna

VOTE: Deimos

[jjh927]

Yes.

Probably worthwhile for comparison because if you look at the continued interactions with me which I said I wasn't interested in but actually really was, you need to determine whether it is a desperate attempt to get me to stop scumreading her or if she is actually genuinely annoyed at me for scumreading her. It's the latter in this case

[jjh927]

Rat reads as someone who is not paying much attention to the gamestate which is +town

[jjh927]

Talk to me about your datisi read, Gamma

[jjh927]

You shouldn't rule out a reality warping role that actually creates and implants false memories in players

[jjh927]

Could you tell me about why you think Datisi might be scum rather than talking to me about Datisi as a player

[jjh927]

I feel like there's room for him to be town and if he's scum he will very likely spew partners going forwards

Like, this is a blanket statement you could say about a lot of people and doesn't involve any actual content. It's a more positively worded scumlean with an excuse as to why you won't vote there

[jjh927]

i sometimes use "we" to refer to someone else when i wanna point out their thoughts or actions are weird / unexpected / silly. i'm not sure if it's a thing in english >_>

@pooky, is this seriously not a thing in english

have i been embarrassing myself in front of english spekaers for years

Yeah that works but is reliant on tone so not great in a text medium

[jjh927]

Fwiw I asked about Datisi because that was Gamma's last serious vote before voting a lurker who is certainly a gimmick alt and Datisi also being here makes the real time discussion cooler

I am currently displeased with the level of information we are shaking out of Gamma

[jjh927]

Okay, talk to me about Deimos then since neither myself nor datisi have explained anything here about our votes so you cannot copy homework

[jjh927]

i sometimes use "we" to refer to someone else when i wanna point out their thoughts or actions are weird / unexpected / silly. i'm not sure if it's a thing in english >_>

@pooky, is this seriously not a thing in english

have i been embarrassing myself in front of english spekaers for years

it is not a thing in english lol

Oh, I guess we're not using we to chastise people in this fashion any more then

[jjh927]

Rat reads as someone who is not paying much attention to the gamestate which is +town

why
I feel like my comparison to my mbos 10 play is valid so I'd like thoughts on that as well

It's pretty simple theory, in that scum don't tend to come in with jarring reads because they need to agree other people in order to blend in unless they are particularly confident powerscum

[jjh927]

You can always shake a lurker down for content when they pop into the thread to prod dodge

[jjh927]

Speaking of, Queen has just hit the 48 hour mark so I would say prepare to bully them

[jjh927]

Oh I just needed to get myself more involved with the game and develop reads but I think I've done that somewhat unexpectedly by talking with other people

[jjh927]

You're literally the one person voting Queen. Gamma

Prods are the mechanic for people not posting in the thread
Voting is there for pressure if they continue to post without any real content

[jjh927]

Alright then why aren’t you voting either instead of some nia lurker?

I'm trying to pull content out of the slot by voting it, DUH.

can we vote this

We can

Gamma is probably the default elim at the moment

The main reasons I am not there right now are that I would like to get some content from other people since it's day 1, and that while I was pushing gamma the threat of my vote shifting to gamma was probably better for pressure than actually voting gamma

[jjh927]

Oh I just needed to get myself more involved with the game and develop reads but I think I've done that somewhat unexpectedly by talking with other people

I'm just curious why I was the first person that came to mind, outside of

Koba

, assuming that you didn't read that they died.

Koba was a strong townread I felt I could work with
You are a townread I think I can probably work with

The latter is generally more important and it's very player based. Ultimately it's good for me to unpack my surface reads from gut to the underlying reasons behind them which generally requires either a wider conversation with multiple people or just bouncing stuff off of someone else whose reasoning I can respect with a similar kind of playstyle to mine

[jjh927]

I think you are probably barking up the wrong tree but it's good that you are barking in the first place

UNVOTE:

[jjh927]

jjh, what do you like about his recent posts (other than "he is posting")

The outlandish weak push

The push based on a contrived scumslip relating to a neighbourhood, and the apparent frustration that it hadn't been listened to within that hood. It's the kind of thing scum don't tend to come up with because it's both novel and very weak. If scum come up with something novel, they still know it's false and will present it in a way reflecting the strength of the argument, if they even use it at all. Town often don't assess the strength of argument accurately. If a player can convince themself but nobody else with a bizarre argument, they are most likely town.

[jjh927]

Stealth hi-bye

Have you considered posting content

[jjh927]

Prod dodge again and I will shower you with my Father's Love

This doesn't sound like a threat unless you know that Father's Love is the name of my unique javelin

[jjh927]

we have a town role

GODZILLA

anyone who fears us can't kill us.

fear = scumread

so if you quote this post and say "I scumread this"

your nightkill on us would fail

that's why I'm trying to get everyone to scumread me

so I can be NIGHTKILL IMMUNE FROM EVERYONE

also we town af

I scumread this obvious scum post

[jjh927]

Is it only the last read that matters? Like, if someone were to express a different read after initially scumreading you, would you still be immune?

[jjh927]

That's not how roles are designed though

[jjh927]

oh yeah, i am also not sure if i buy jjh's argument for deimos being town. i'm not sure he appeared to actually truly believe what he was saying, considering he didn't even vote there. jjh, if you can elaborate on why you think deimos seemed so certain about the Weak Argument, that'd be cool, because i did not get that impression at all

Did I say Deimos was certain about it? The point is that the bizarre argument was found, believed in, and presented as though it wasn't tinfoil nonsense. Why would scum look for the argument there in the first place? That's the biggest thing, although all three of those things are hurdles for a scum player to replicate for basically no gain since I don't think people other than me tend to acknowledge this as a towntell

[jjh927]

Jjh do you have other reads apart from Deimos town?
~C

I think I've been vocal enough about my reads for you to not need to ask this so I'll throw a few more in

GLB, Cheeky Wings, Deimos, Taly, Datisi, Sakura, Titus, Ratmans, Ydrasse, Ircher are all town

Gamma is probably scum

My reads would benefit from being online at the same time as anyone I haven't mentioned

[jjh927]

That's a lot of posts and not a lot of things happening

[jjh927]

I'm gonna say
VOTE: Victorine

[jjh927]

Faking post restrictions is NAI, but using them as an excuse to not do anything is AI

[jjh927]

I'd have pitched in on this discussion when I got here but for whatever reason I don't really have an angle for placing GrandpaMo at present so I've instead been looking at old games, given that Nancy implied Victorine was probably NicoRobin/Yume/Aelita/who knows how many alts and that's actually pretty plausible but I don't think it means a lot other than that I'm even more happy to elim there than before

[jjh927]

Idk how often Yume has done it before but she did this “y’all should be able to read me right” thing as scum in a recently “finished” game, AI UPick 2

Oh is it actually definitely Yume then

[jjh927]

Okay then

She deserves to be voted up for acting like a blatantly faked pOsT rEStRiCtIoN is an excuse for not posting content if nothing else

[jjh927]

I'd have pitched in on this discussion when I got here but for whatever reason I don't really have an angle for placing GrandpaMo at present so I've instead been looking at old games, given that Nancy implied Victorine was probably NicoRobin/Yume/Aelita/who knows how many alts and that's actually pretty plausible but I don't think it means a lot other than that I'm even more happy to elim there than before

I might be interested in throwing in some Victorine pressure. Gamma will always exist as deadline elim.
I feel like my vote being parked there is no longer actually helping to sort him.
What is it about those alts that makes Victorine an even better elim?

-I have almost no respect for Yume's play even when she isn't doing literally nothing, so even if she's town we don't lose much
-Town!Yume is never getting shot by scum ever, so she will endgame as either alignment if we do not elim or vig her.
-If I can remember it, I have sufficient experience with Yume to accurately place her but I am gonna need to see her attempt some actual content.

-I would consider Yume the kind of player who would be inclined to basically not post because she is frightened of specific people in the playerlist accurately placing her as scum.

[jjh927]

Here's the thing about the post restriction.
We've seen some posts from Victorine that don't appear post restricted at all.
We've seen some posts with apparent restrictions that immediately vanish and different ones appear thereafter.
Either there really exists some general post restriction that encompasses all the variety in posts we've seen from Victorine (press x to doubt) or RC is like actively changing Victorine's post restrictions (which would be an insane amount of work, so... press x to doubt)

Ok but counter consideration:
Why would scum fake such a haphazard post restriction, knowing it's gonna look unrealistic.
Why wouldn't they choose one post restriction and use it consistently?

-I would consider Yume the kind of player who would be inclined to basically not post because she is frightened of specific people in the playerlist accurately placing her as scum.

Also, why would town fake such a haphazard post restriction, knowing it's gonna look unrealistic? This in part is a reflection of the player, not the alignment, and the player is Yume which is why it makes sense for her to do it. I don't believe Yume has an understanding of the post restriction looking unrealistic.

The motivation of why she has ATTEMPTED to fake a post restriction is more pressing, and that is because she wants to avoid posting actual content in order to avoid being correctly identified as scum.

[jjh927]

-I have almost no respect for Yume's play even when she isn't doing literally nothing, so even if she's town we don't lose much
-Town!Yume is never getting shot by scum ever, so she will endgame as either alignment if we do not elim or vig her.

I wonder how loft will read this.

Can you read this..? @loft


Because it sounds like you have conflicting views I believe.

Full disclosure, I do also have a magical power when it comes to Yume- Yume is incapable of killing me in any upick, and whenever she attempts it, the situation will be made worse for her. I think there's 3 games? Maybe 4 if you count the one where I made her set her hydra on fire

[jjh927]

-I have almost no respect for Yume's play even when she isn't doing literally nothing, so even if she's town we don't lose much

Okay don’t, she was actually alright in FFXIV as part of the hydra with House, she helped pull him from pushing several mislims

She was obtown in that game. I don’t want her hammered yet or even close but if she’s going to take the attitude that I don’t have to be readable the entire game and shades anyone who dares question her about that, I don’t think that’s acceptable.

And that’s yet another reason I think Titus is town, because she was fooled by scum!Joan in TBoNtB and I trust her scepticism on that.

I haven't played with her in aaaaaaaages but I think if she's going after people who scumread her then she's more likely to be scum

From what I remember her scumgame relies on people saying "No this is what she's like as town" when she coasts by doing fuck all as scum

[jjh927]

I thought it would be pretty obvious what my flavor is by now, and if you know my flavor, you know my restriction.

- Red

First you sign “wolf” now “red” and we’re supposed to tr you for that?

RC told us that flavour is nai. None of that makes you town.

Do townie things and I’ll unvote you. I want to see you try to solve. Why are you still voting Sakura?

Shutposting is my way of doing townie things. If you really studied my meta as Gamma claims, you would know this. You do you.

Besides, when Firebringer shitposts, everyone gives him instant townie pass. Yet when I do it, I am instantly scum.

I townread Firebringer based on the content that goes with the shitposts. Sometimes Fire interacts with other players in a way that would be shitposting if it wasn't actually good alignment-indicative stuff.

You have posted 0 content whatsoever. I don't think your playstyle has changed.

[jjh927]

Firebringer shitposts to have fun while playing the mafia game. He achieves two goals- having fun, and playing the mafia game.

You appear to be shitposting to avoid playing the mafia game, and I'm not particularly convinced you're having fun with it. You have achieved a singular goal- not playing the mafia game.

Why do you not want to play?

[jjh927]

Oh boy I missed some stuff there

Did anyone ask me any questions?

[jjh927]

I think I'm approaching the higher standard for reads which I usually reserve for day 2 and we still haven't got any real interest in eliming the easiest scum to elim

[jjh927]

Like, if I'm gonna have to actually think about slots like Ircher, Galron, and GrandpaMo I need to engage brain more. Definitely seeing potential for scum Ircher but the easiest most obvious scum elim is Victorine

[jjh927]

Oh good, you're here, why do you SR jjh?

I just expect more from jjh than what he has been doing, which is close to nothing.
~C

Not sure how you're unaware of how my playstyle has shifted

When was the last time we played in the same game?

[jjh927]

-I believe I can place Victorine with extreme accuracy if she actually plays the game.
-I think Victorine is hiding from the thread because she is scared of people placing her as scum. Not necessarily me- she might have forgotten I exist and can and will thwart her scumgame in its every instance.
-Victorine is not playing the game, and absolutely needs to be elimed or pressured into playing the game.

[jjh927]

While we're at it though- Ircher-

Do you think there might be a reason why scum!Yume could get excited about a scum role PM? Perhaps in a upick where you can pick anything? Where she picked a character she likes?

That is, if you actually believe she is excited about her role PM because I really don't believe she's done anything to justify that stance of yours

[jjh927]

I actually think faking a post restriction in order to avoid the thread is the opposite of being excited about the role PM you have received

[jjh927]

The only conceivable post restriction it could be is that you have to appear to badly pretend to have a post restriction by making x% of your posts unintelligible nonsense and insisting you have a post restriction

[jjh927]

Firebringer knows where my day 1 read accuracy is at

[jjh927]

Why is no one stopping and saying holy shit RadiantCowbells got a pagetop he is clearly the greatest game mod in the history of mafia scum? weird

It'd be more impressive if you didn't remove a player from the game so you'd have less people to contend with for pagetops

[jjh927]

Sakura Hana/Titus/Ircher/Galron/~

has a nice ring to it.

The fact that

Victorine's

wagon gets more ground not long after this statement only makes me more comfortable with this PoE.

I think it's pretty clear why Victorine's wagon got more ground and it has nothing to do with your POE if you read the gamestate

Firebringer was looking for someone to sheep and Sakura looked at Victorine's absolute garbage iso after Fire was vocal about his sheeping
If you're self absorbed about your POE, then I would say Gamma is the only real contender for a vote of convenience

Sakura and Titus are both town. Ircher is probably scum and galron is possibly scum

[jjh927]

Deimos is locktown for the confused hood-based push on GLB that I really think is too inspired for scum to come up with

[jjh927]

It would be better if you used funny memes as your buffer posts

[jjh927]

The point about your disconnect from the gamestate is that you've seen a thing happening and assumed it is linked to your POE without actually following through on how that would be linked

[jjh927]

In practice, what is the possible link between your POE and the rise of the Victorine wagon and how should we interpret the game going forward as a result of that link?

[jjh927]

Do you want Sakura or Titus first

[jjh927]

In short, Titus is town because I can see her trying to wagon someone else when one of her townreads is being wagoned

Sakura is town because of roleclaim, and also because of arbitrary gut stuff I haven't bothered to translate from subconscious because Sakura is town because of role

[jjh927]

Sakura is town because of roleclaim

they claimed... when?

About half the game ago

[jjh927]

RC if I give you this pagetop do we get a votecount?

[jjh927]

Nah, there's info from an elim even if there's no resistance to it


There are, however, infoless flips, like the two we got today from a very ineffectively used suicide dayvig

[jjh927]

Okay we know you are there now Yume

Don't run away from us again

[jjh927]

I thought GrandpaMo was talking about his play in another game where there was a serial killer

[jjh927]

Okay we know you are there now Yume

Don't run away from us again

wait victorine is yume.....
now i feel less good about this lol

but wait ur still good at reading yume much better than me...

okay i want to see how this plays out

Yes, and note that by following through on this elim I would throw away another chance for circumstances to align in a way such that Yume fails to kill me, as is the natural way of things

[jjh927]

3) The faction numbers are 18:5.

[jjh927]

2) This game has veered further into bastard territory than past games, but still isn't a bastard game in the sense of mod lies or jesters.

[jjh927]

While we're at it though- Ircher-

Do you think there might be a reason why scum!Yume could get excited about a scum role PM? Perhaps in a upick where you can pick anything? Where she picked a character she likes?

That is, if you actually believe she is excited about her role PM because I really don't believe she's done anything to justify that stance of yours

I actually think faking a post restriction in order to avoid the thread is the opposite of being excited about the role PM you have received

[jjh927]

I think everyone else is confused because of a thing GMO said for memes and he is now sitting back and watching people be confused

[jjh927]

I think everyone else is confused because of a thing GMO said for memes and he is now sitting back and watching people be confused

I don't think it's very town to cause confusion for no reason.

I mean, it's pro-fun, which is a different side-objective some people play towards

[jjh927]

In short, Titus is town because I can see her trying to wagon someone else when one of her townreads is being wagoned

Doesn't this only make sense if you think the person Titus is townreading can't be her scumpartner

Reply to this

Jjh

No this is just archetypal town!Titus meta behaviour in that it's a thing she does

[jjh927]

I'm not sure I've seen Yume make no attempt at content whatsoever, but I have seen Yume post nothing of any real substance as scum

[jjh927]

2) This game has veered further into bastard territory than past games, but still isn't a bastard game in the sense of mod lies or jesters.

I missed that and am VERY WORRIED because the worst there’s been in the past was

a super-janitor that deleted the target’s posting history

.

As long as it's not as bastard as that one advertised-as-not-bastard boon upick I think it'll be fine

[jjh927]

Okay we know you are there now Yume

Don't run away from us again

I haven't forgotten your me-catching skills, by the way.

Cool- are you willing to state any reads

[jjh927]

Imitating a playstyle is not an objective post restriction. It's subjective and so cannot be effectively ruled on without screening posts in the way that the abandoned game correspondence mafia attempted

[jjh927]

In short, Titus is town because I can see her trying to wagon someone else when one of her townreads is being wagoned

Doesn't this only make sense if you think the person Titus is townreading can't be her scumpartner

Reply to this

Jjh

No this is just archetypal town!Titus meta behaviour in that it's a thing she does

Not exactly a useful consideration unless you also think scum!Titus

doesn't

do this

I don't think she does in the same way

[jjh927]

Okay we know you are there now Yume

Don't run away from us again

I haven't forgotten your me-catching skills, by the way.

Cool- are you willing to state any reads

JJ...

Vic is giving you a hint.

Vic is a player that knows you.

Think.

It is also a layer that knows Firebringer.

Actually that's a response to this post

-I believe I can place Victorine with extreme accuracy if she actually plays the game.
-I think Victorine is hiding from the thread because she is scared of people placing her as scum. Not necessarily me- she might have forgotten I exist and can and will thwart her scumgame in its every instance.
-Victorine is not playing the game, and absolutely needs to be elimed or pressured into playing the game.

[jjh927]

Honestly I thought SS was just really committed to replacing Queen and didn't think for a second it was actually a post restriction

[jjh927]

Okay Yume, what's your read on the Nancy hydra

[jjh927]

Are you trying to get me to come to the conclusion for you that it is Mastina

[jjh927]

Okay Yume, what's your read on the Nancy hydra

I hope that this is just to sort yume because you yourself should have a lock read on us by now.
~C

Obviously it is. I asked about your slot because you are at this point probably the easiest slot in the game to place

[jjh927]

Honestly I thought SS was just really committed to replacing Queen and didn't think for a second it was actually a post restriction

What did you think of

GrandpaMo’s

post just before this one?

I think this is an exercise in theatre by scum!GrandpaMo to make scum!Victorine's post restriction more believable

[jjh927]

I think this is an exercise in theatre by scum!GrandpaMo to make scum!Victorine's post restriction more believable

That Would Be Extremely Heavy Handed

Have You Played With Traitor GMo Before

I have not, but it does LOOK extremely heavy handed

[jjh927]

Honestly I thought SS was just really committed to replacing Queen and didn't think for a second it was actually a post restriction

What did you think of

GrandpaMo’s

post just before this one?

I think this is an exercise in theatre by scum!GrandpaMo to make scum!Victorine's post restriction more believable

Wrong answer imo. There was a thread I wanted you to take a hold of and you missed it completely.

Take hold of it yourself

I am pretty sure I'm right

[jjh927]

-Why did Yume suddenly start signing every post with M having done that on exactly one other post, along with also having signed as "Big bad wold" and "Red" previously, at a time when GrandpaMo decided to push the agenda that Yume's post restriction was to imitate Mastina?
-Why does GMo ignore Post 2161 while attempting to determine Yume's post restriction?
-This is exactly the kind of poorly thought out nonsense I would expect from scum!Yume to justify demonstrably false claims based on what has happened when Yume has been caught in a lie in the past
-GMo really pushed that agenda HARD there. Like damn, there were some serious leaps of logic to get to that conclusion and then he left it open with the obvious "Mastina" answer for me and/or Fire to answer for him so he doesn't seem completely batshit insane.

Conclusion- A pair of bad actors reading a bad script

[jjh927]

Conclusion- A pair of bad actors reading a bad script

Big If True

Who Do You Think Wrote The Script Though

Inevitably it is a combination of Yume and GMo

[jjh927]

-Why did Yume suddenly start signing every post with M having done that on exactly one other post, along with also having signed as "Big bad wold" and "Red" previously, at a time when GrandpaMo decided to push the agenda that Yume's post restriction was to imitate Mastina?
-Why does GMo ignore Post 2161 while attempting to determine Yume's post restriction?
-This is exactly the kind of poorly thought out nonsense I would expect from scum!Yume to justify demonstrably false claims based on what has happened when Yume has been caught in a lie in the past
-GMo really pushed that agenda HARD there. Like damn, there were some serious leaps of logic to get to that conclusion and then he left it open with the obvious "Mastina" answer for me and/or Fire to answer for him so he doesn't seem completely batshit insane.

Conclusion- A pair of bad actors reading a bad script

There was no lie. It's my flavor.

The post restriction is the lie

You are not post restricted, although if you would like to continue under the pretense that you are then you will need to explain what your post restriction is

[jjh927]

-Why did Yume suddenly start signing every post with M having done that on exactly one other post, along with also having signed as "Big bad wold" and "Red" previously, at a time when GrandpaMo decided to push the agenda that Yume's post restriction was to imitate Mastina?

I know this one!
Mastina was working on a comic a WHILE back about a character called “little red rider” iirc

oh yea also that ^

Does Yume know that?

[jjh927]

Or to put it this way: if I guess a player's flavor correctly, I get a reward. Just like in those old 'prize catching games' at carnivals.

I have crumbed mine in a fashion that should be incomprehensible to most

[jjh927]

Full disclosure, I do also have a magical power when it comes to Yume- Yume is incapable of killing me in any upick, and whenever she attempts it, the situation will be made worse for her. I think there's 3 games? Maybe 4 if you count the one where I made her set her hydra on fire

[jjh927]

Sakura is town because of roleclaim, and also because of arbitrary gut stuff I haven't bothered to translate from subconscious because Sakura is town because of role

[jjh927]

Though I would say I'm at like 80% confidence in Victorine!Town right now.

3) The faction numbers are 18:5.

Assume you are town
Assume we've had the two townflips we have had

20 other players, of whom 15 are town

Chance of a random player being town is 75%

I think your 80% level of certainty sucks

[jjh927]

That's not how it works. A scale where 50% is really 3/4s of the way is useless.

That's exactly how it works
It is a lower bar to consider someone town than scum

If you say you're 80% sure someone is town, it means you think that 4 times out of 5 they will flip town

[jjh927]

I don't think it's clear at all that you're not doing that

Are you saying that when you say you are 80% sure, you do not mean that you think 4/5 times you will be right, but you instead mean that you are arbitrarily confident you are right?

[jjh927]

You should maybe stop using quantitative measures to describe your confidence if it is qualitative

[jjh927]

I mean, I got there because GMo seemed to be interpreting things in a really leapy way

[jjh927]

You should maybe stop using quantitative measures to describe your confidence if it is qualitative

I'm not sure what you're doing if not to discredit Ircher's defense of Vic.
~C

I'm doing two things in equal parts;
-Discrediting Ircher's defense of Vic in that Ircher's portrayal of confidence in this instance is misleading and I don't trust it
-Admonishing someone who is habitually using percentages in a misleading way

[jjh927]

That was an early readslist

Good players use early readslists to make statements with arbitrarily strong levels of confidence to generate content

I was more annoyed at the 80% confidence post in isolation

[jjh927]

Is that one going to be a votecount

Pedit: Booooo we want vcs now

[jjh927]

I mean, I asked you about why you felt that Victorine appeared to be excited to play the game and I thought your answer wasn't very convincing

[jjh927]

Back to the GMo-Vic attempt at solidifying Victorine's faked post restriction into something less obviously faked, I should probably go quote the post that really set me off

Okay we know you are there now Yume

Don't run away from us again

I haven't forgotten your me-catching skills, by the way.

Cool- are you willing to state any reads

JJ...

Vic is giving you a hint.

Vic is a player that knows you.

Think.

It is also a layer that knows Firebringer.

HOW do you make this link? How does anyone see 3429 and make the conclusion that Yume was giving me a hint with that post?

[jjh927]

I mean, I asked you about why you felt that Victorine appeared to be excited to play the game and I thought your answer wasn't very convincing

You asked this before Victorine started seriously engaging with the thread. Your outlook would probably be different now even if you come to the same conclusion.

You're right that it's quite different now but I still think your approach to Yume started on weak grounds that have rather tainted any ability you have to influence me on my Yume read barring definitive logical points

[jjh927]

Sure. I'll flip town tho, but okay

This was also townie. It may seem like an easy statement to fake, but the phrasing and underlying tone is key. It's not a defeatist attitude, but at the same time, it acknowledges the game state and what may be better overall.

Subject: A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

Yo NicoRobin, is Mastina faking the trigger condition for her gladiate ability

No, she was just lying about being loyal.

Then again, why even ask? You will scumread me no matter what, because that's the only way you can save mastina, and you will ignore any and all posts which don't fit into your narrative.

Get ready to burn when I flip town.

kthxbai

[jjh927]

And here is a meta-based counterargument of my own

I thought it would be pretty obvious what my flavor is by now, and if you know my flavor, you know my restriction.

- Red

First you sign “wolf” now “red” and we’re supposed to tr you for that?

RC told us that flavour is nai. None of that makes you town.

Do townie things and I’ll unvote you. I want to see you try to solve. Why are you still voting Sakura?

Shutposting is my way of doing townie things. If you really studied my meta as Gamma claims, you would know this. You do you.

Besides, when Firebringer shitposts, everyone gives him instant townie pass. Yet when I do it, I am instantly scum.

url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10495484]Subject: A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6[/url]

And more importantly, why should she get a free pass for lurking - the thing that's in her actual scum repertoire - when I get scumread for lurking over and over again, despite it being a town trait for me?

[jjh927]

I mean, I could buy Yume's new post restriction claim tbh, other than that she hasn't met it yet and she claimed it and could easily spampost a few more text walls

[jjh927]

I'd believe it completely if it came a lot earlier

Now it could be a fakeclaim because Yume's had a long time for scum to workshop her fakeclaim if she's scum

Otherwise it's fine

[jjh927]

How the fuck does everyone have dayvig shots and Godzilla didn't get one

w i l d

rc knew we couldn't be trusted with one

I mean, he gave Toogeloo a suicide dayvig and look what happened

Still particularly annoyed they shot Koba tbh

[jjh927]

why deimos and taly scum?>

Real good question there

I'd probably ask them one at a time so you've taken the efficient route too

[jjh927]

The overall impression I am getting from Taly is he is struggling to get actually in the game. This is evidenced by each of his constant backtracking on reads. To be clear, one or two read reversals are fine, but it seems he tries to start a wagon, it gains some momentum, and then suddenly he is no longer interested in it. This just seems really strange. This combined with the higher level of aggression equates a scum read.

Do you not think that is Taly readjusting reads in light of new content brought about by wagon pressure? Because that's what I think that is

[jjh927]

For Deimos, he strikes me as the most likely deepscum. Should I be making such reads rn? Probably not, but I am anyway.

I don't particularly understand this argument. Is Deimos too towny for your liking? Is he bringing the game in a direction you dislike but in a relatively towny way? Is he someone you scumread for other reasons while you feel lots of people townread him?

You're gonna have to elaborate on why you actually think Deimos is scum besides just calling him deepscum

[jjh927]

Do you not think that is Taly readjusting reads in light of new content brought about by wagon pressure? Because that's what I think that is

It's possible sure. But the other aspect is he keeps going from super confident someone is going to flip scum to a complete read reversal of being committed they are town. It's unusual behavior, and I am associating that with scum-indicative.

pedit: To be clear, I'm not actively townreading Deimos, but I would also be lying if I said there were any specific posts I actively scum read.

That's how I play too. Making apparently super confident pushes are how you make pressure. You have to embellish a bit and then ultimately make the decision based on the push of whether you're gonna elim there or not. If you're not gonna elim there after all it's because you have decided they are probably town

[jjh927]

Like, as an example, do you think I actually had a hard scumread on Nancy like 20 pages in? I didn't even clock that Nancy was in that hydra when I started pushing it, and then I pushed it until I could leave for a bit and determine whether Nancy was town

If someone is pushing people and then changing their mind and they are doing that a lot then that is absolutely town. You believe Taly is struggling to get into the game, but you don't extend that argument for that to be a result of a town player whose pushes continually end up being townreads based on their reaction. That's a town player who hasn't hit scum, but not for lack of trying

[jjh927]

I am town if and only if I am not town.

Liar

[jjh927]

Can you go back to discussing Taly with me, Ircher

[jjh927]

What else are you looking at then, if you're the one taking the holistic view?

Why is frustration a scum trait here when he's changing reads? If he is town, he is chasing leads and they are turning up dead. If he is scum, he is chasing down possible mislims and then abandoning them for no reason. Which one of these scenarios causes frustration?

[jjh927]

ratmans is the epitome of dumbtell
How many do I need to see before I believe it?
I am not sure. Perhaps I should already believe it

In day 1, I only need to see 1

[jjh927]

Get off rat

[jjh927]

Get off rat

I wonder if anyone other than me is gonna understand how powerful this actually is

[jjh927]

Well that's that give up your banner jj

Shhh don't tell anyone but they haven't updated the scummies banners since I won this in the 2019 scummies

[jjh927]

Get off Rat.

- Uzi

[jjh927]

But yeah if Firebringer remembers I'm sure he'll find me saying "Get off rat" to be hilarious

[jjh927]

I the meanwhile I will sleep because this distracted me all the way till almost 5am again... g e e z

oh nice you're also UK

[jjh927]

I can only assume that the reason for the lack of education within your guess is that The Mighty Queen Requires No Education To Outsmart Peons

[jjh927]

But yeah if Firebringer remembers I'm sure he'll find me saying "Get off rat" to be hilarious

i reread that game and jogging my memory didn't help me.
but i will laugh with u regardless

Funny repeated line telling my hydra to stop voting admiral ratbar, who was scum

[jjh927]

But yeah if Firebringer remembers I'm sure he'll find me saying "Get off rat" to be hilarious

i reread that game and jogging my memory didn't help me.
but i will laugh with u regardless

Funny repeated line telling my hydra to stop voting admiral ratbar, who was scum

This sounds familiar.
~C

Oh damn you were in that game too

[jjh927]

Conclusion- A pair of bad actors reading a bad script

this also feels like a good post

i want to say jjh is townie but i have no idea what his scumgame actually is like so i am a but paranoia there

jjh, you said esrlier you townread me, i think? why is that?

I mean, you're one of the players who is making the most effort to place others in this game. You're asking a lot of questions and responding to the answers. You are playing a very towny game, and this is all aside from the little back and forth between me, you, and gamma that was my primary means of placing you

[jjh927]

With regards to my scumgame, your best guess??? is probably looking at this game but that's a scumgame from 6 months ago where I particularly disagreed with someone else in the scumteam about the direction of play and a lot has happened since then

I think I am currently at a point at which I could expand beyond established meta the next time I roll scum. I think future me would appreciate it if I didn't explain how that might occur

[jjh927]

GMo

I got bored and decided to read some of mastina's games off the wiki then found a game firebringer was in...

then I decided to just fuck with firebringer till they realize lol

Why were you reading Mastina's games

[jjh927]

That's only like 40 pages and we have plenty of time

[jjh927]

I think it's funny how there are full games with fewer posts than the cheeky hydra in this incomplete day 1

[jjh927]

UNVOTE:

Think that would be E-1 which is dangerous in a large of this nature

[jjh927]

I'm not done

[jjh927]

Spoiler:

The overall impression I am getting from Taly is he is struggling to get actually in the game. This is evidenced by each of his constant backtracking on reads. To be clear, one or two read reversals are fine, but it seems he tries to start a wagon, it gains some momentum, and then suddenly he is no longer interested in it. This just seems really strange. This combined with the higher level of aggression equates a scum read.

Do you not think that is Taly readjusting reads in light of new content brought about by wagon pressure? Because that's what I think that is

For Deimos, he strikes me as the most likely deepscum. Should I be making such reads rn? Probably not, but I am anyway.

I don't particularly understand this argument. Is Deimos too towny for your liking? Is he bringing the game in a direction you dislike but in a relatively towny way? Is he someone you scumread for other reasons while you feel lots of people townread him?

You're gonna have to elaborate on why you actually think Deimos is scum besides just calling him deepscum

Do you not think that is Taly readjusting reads in light of new content brought about by wagon pressure? Because that's what I think that is

It's possible sure. But the other aspect is he keeps going from super confident someone is going to flip scum to a complete read reversal of being committed they are town. It's unusual behavior, and I am associating that with scum-indicative.

pedit: To be clear, I'm not actively townreading Deimos, but I would also be lying if I said there were any specific posts I actively scum read.

That's how I play too. Making apparently super confident pushes are how you make pressure. You have to embellish a bit and then ultimately make the decision based on the push of whether you're gonna elim there or not. If you're not gonna elim there after all it's because you have decided they are probably town

I am town if and only if I am not town.

Liar

Can you go back to discussing Taly with me, Ircher

Jjh what was your read on Ircher after this?
~C

Kinda dfificult tbh

I think Ircher might be town but I have no confidence in any of his reads

[jjh927]

I don't target pockets at people I don't know

[jjh927]

Like, the thing I do that is closest to pocketing involves me knowing how players will react to specific things at specific times

[jjh927]

I am willing to vote someone other than Victorine on the grounds that Yume is incapable of killing me

[jjh927]

Honestly that is ever the question

[jjh927]

And I am ever the answerer
VOTE: Gypyx

[jjh927]

VOTE: gypyx
I’m not rlly confident about this but his post responding to me having him in my rando solve was just, bad. Definitely don’t like him trying to sow paranoia with me.

I am gaining confidence while approaching end of day reads

[jjh927]

VOTE: gypyx
I’m not rlly confident about this but his post responding to me having him in my rando solve was just, bad. Definitely don’t like him trying to sow paranoia with me.

I am gaining confidence while approaching end of day reads

you're anticipating the end?

Kind of

I am in the process of formalising my reads

[jjh927]

This is where I am right now

Locktown: Good Luck Buddy, Cheeky Wings, Taly, Deimos27, Datisi
Hard town: Sakura Hana, Titus, T3, Loftwing, Ratmans, Gamma Emerald
Day 1 "Town": Ircher, Something_Smart, Galron, Ydrasse, GrandpaMo
Scumlean: Clemency, Victorine
Scum: Gypyx

Not Known 15: Not Known 15

[jjh927]

Gypyx does not even exist on the face of the earth why are we voting there

Gypyx not existing is how he had escaped my notice until now but I did not like his iso when I went through it

[jjh927]

This is where I am right now

Locktown: Good Luck Buddy, Cheeky Wings, Taly, Deimos27, Datisi
Hard town: Sakura Hana, Titus, T3, Loftwing, Ratmans, Gamma Emerald
Day 1 "Town": Ircher, Something_Smart, Galron, Ydrasse, GrandpaMo
Scumlean: Clemency, Victorine
Scum: Gypyx

Not Known 15: Not Known 15

Datisi as locktown, is it a meta read? I know they're busy with other things but the wim is all over the place from that slot. I had them as lock which dropped a bit since.
~C

No meta; just certain Datisi is town

[jjh927]

Also I think your lock tier is different to mine because when I say someone is locktown that means the read isn't going to move any more

[jjh927]

Jjh I would like u to convince me of town Taly at some point

Did you read my disagreement with Ircher

[jjh927]

I think the obvious answer to 3464 was Mastina, yes. I think the fact you made post 3464 was an incredible leap and the only reason you wouldn't immediately suggest it was Mastina, probably in the same post as your bizarre conclusion in 3464, was because you wanted me or Fire to give the answer so you didn't seem quite so TMI

[jjh927]

GMo

I got bored and decided to read some of mastina's games off the wiki then found a game firebringer was in...

then I decided to just fuck with firebringer till they realize lol

Why were you reading Mastina's games

[jjh927]

I think the obvious answer to 3464 was Mastina, yes. I think the fact you made post 3464 was an incredible leap and the only reason you wouldn't immediately suggest it was Mastina, probably in the same post as your bizarre conclusion in 3464, was because you wanted me or Fire to give the answer so you didn't seem quite so TMI

what ???

first -- there you go! this is proof to datisi that JJh had suggested it ws matina way before me.

second -- yes, i do admit, I was thinking about mastina at that time as a possible subject and that's only because I brought up mastina way before as a joke when i was reading their articles and wanted to make sum funny shit to firebringer.

third -- the only reason i pressured you with this line of reasoning was to see if i can see your possible scum equity with vic. why do you think i wanted to make it obvious -- but at the time, i wasn't really sure. but i still pushed the reasoning that it was whoever it is with the critera listed below

"

- Player that starts with the letter M
- Player that knows JJh
- Player that knows Firebringer
- Player that knows Yume

"

this is what i said!

this is all info that can be readily avaialbe to anyone. this person kept doing - m in the end of their posts depciting they had another persona of some sort just like someone of a hydra would. also it was confirmed after having those thoughts in post 3448. player that knows jjh >>> due to the fact of an assumption based on post 3439. player that knows firebringer >>> post 2478 also side interaction, but that post implies that vic had prior knowledge of firebringer's metaeither on yume or the mastina persona. player that knows yume >>> yume chose this player becuase yume knows this player. why does someone send a flavor to rc not knowing what the hell they are.

Why did you jump to the conclusion that Yume mentioning a player meant that they knew the player whose flavour she was?

[jjh927]

I think most of your reactions to things don't show a lot of interest in actually placing people

[jjh927]

Okay but that pretty obviously refers to me being able to catch Yume and isn't some cryptic clue

[jjh927]

@jjh have you completely lost your Ircher suspicions now?

No but mostly

I think he's like 65-70% town, which is to say he has above rand chances of being scum but is still probably not scum

[jjh927]

I think most of your reactions to things don't show a lot of interest in actually placing people

well, tbh, if you mean like, i'm not interested in trying to sort a lot of stuff, that's kinda true i admit, i just throw pasta at a wall and look if it sticks, i'm just chilling really

I mean that the questions you've asked are more interested in other people's stances rather than being for your actual benefit in placing people

[jjh927]

-I believe I can place Victorine with extreme accuracy if she actually plays the game.
-I think Victorine is hiding from the thread because she is scared of people placing her as scum.

Not necessarily me- she might have forgotten I exist and can and will thwart her scumgame in its every instance.

-Victorine is not playing the game, and absolutely needs to be elimed or pressured into playing the game.

Highlight is pretty blatantly what Yume was responding to when she said she hadn't forgotten my ability to catch her

[jjh927]

@jjh have you completely lost your Ircher suspicions now?

No but mostly

I think he's like 65-70% town, which is to say he has above rand chances of being scum but is still probably not scum

If he’s 65-70% likely town, then how does he have “above rand chances of being scum”?

And if he does in fact have “above rand chances of being scum”, then why is he then “still probably not scum”?

There are 21 players including me. 16 are town. I am town. If I selected a random player that wasn't me, they have a 15/20 chance of being town, or 75% town

[jjh927]

Taly's reaction to the gamestate and underlying motivation for voting is just transparently town

[jjh927]

I think Ircher has negative utility that would be disadvantageous to claim

[jjh927]

He almost did

[jjh927]

I think he might be annoyed I spelt it out, actually

[jjh927]

Oh boy I think we're ending day 1 with 4 dead town

[jjh927]

It sure would but apparently the theme of this game is being bad at using suicidal killing roles

[jjh927]

Oh boy I think we're ending day 1 with 4 dead town

I don't like reading this before flips :X

Ircher has gone up in likelihood of being town after the supersaint claim
and T3 is highly likely to be town

[jjh927]

Actually I do still think GMo and Vic are aligned

I don't think it's worth me continuing to push the issue because nobody else seems to see what I do there

[jjh927]

GMo has looked pretty slimy the last couple of pages though

[jjh927]

Oh boy I think we're ending day 1 with 4 dead town

uh how did u come up with this conclusion

if ircher claims to be what he is to be

then it would just be 2 people

ur confidence level that both t3 and ircher is town

is kinda weird.

There are already 2 town dead

If Ircher is what he claims to be then T3 is also dead, and I think T3 is town. You didn't question this in my reads before. I would ask why you are questioning it now, but I think it's because you want to paint this as TMI when in fact it's a perfectly reasonable conclusion for me that both are town

[jjh927]

I don't think GMo would have information about Vic's role unless both are scum. I also think it's not just the information level but the fact that GMo was actively helping Yume to get her story straight in thread and made a lot of unnatural leaps in order to do it

[jjh927]

You haven't debunked my points I just don't think this is relevant content to most people

[jjh927]

Like, your "debunk" of how unnatural it was to assume that Yume was hinting that her flavour was a player that knew both me and Firebringer, for example

[jjh927]

Here it is

Okay but that pretty obviously refers to me being able to catch Yume and isn't some cryptic clue

there you go .. you said it yourself.

i already had a confirmation bias knowing it had to be a player....

therefore LIKE I SAID PREVIOSULY i correalted that info with the that post and disregarded the persona of yume but the persona of another person

do u not understand.

There's no point in me engaging in circular arguments on this

Your explanation on your thought process is still an unnatural leap of logic
If we have this argument it's just going to be me telling you that you did not reach the conclusion naturally, and that if the conclusion was not reached naturally but was the 'correct' conclusion you must have been working backwards, while you tell me that you did reach it naturally. Since most players in the game don't care about this argument I wanted to focus elsewhere, particularly since at the time I wanted to elim Victorine before eliming you and abandon the line of reasoning if she were to flip scum. Now, I would go in the reverse order.

[jjh927]

Like, your "debunk" of how unnatural it was to assume that Yume was hinting that her flavour was a player that knew both me and Firebringer, for example

U LITERALY SAID "MASTINA" BEFORE I SAID HER NAME AND GUESSED IT

LOOK AT POST 3468

LOOK AT THE FULL INTERAACTION ON PAGE 139 - 140! if u want to anlyaze mroe

And you are proving my point for me.

When I said Mastina, I said it was likely the answer you were leading us to, and the reason you wanted me or Firebringer to say it before you was so you seemed less informed about it

[jjh927]

The fact that you are now using that I said the answer that you literally spoonfed before you said it to make you seem more sane is exactly in line with what I said you were doing