Anything uPick (Endgame)

[Deimos27]

And if the attatcher/redirector is scum then I think that makes T3 town since scum wouldn't want to help unknown town role. My brain hurts when I try to understand the implications for Ydrasse being targeted N1.
~C

I don't really understand the role interactions either tbh
You say T3 can still be scum as long as the attacher is town though, yeah?

[Deimos27]

Are you gonna go confirm that I wasn't in fact lying about contradicting Mo soon

[Deimos27]

Indeed if the only person who claims to interact with it is T3, it could be his fabrication. Not sure how to evaluate the probability of that

[Deimos27]

Can anyone confirm a PT that was on only one side of the wall and therefore remained open, btw

[Deimos27]

That is what I said in 6772 just in different words

[Deimos27]

So the case for T3 being town is that scum!attacher would have helped scum!T3 by now and scum!attacher = true because town!attacher would also have helped T3 by now?

Can't town!attacher just have been too paranoid of scum!T3 to enable his role? Can't scum!T3 just be lying about whether they have been helped by scum!attacher?

[Deimos27]

Noone except Taly claimed their hood was closed from day start AND since Taly claimed that in the thread obviously GMo shouldn't have claimed to be in an open hood. So if the information was already public it doesn't seem like it matters if their scum partners knew or not to claim being in an open hood

Can you point me to when Taly said that? Clearly I missed it

[Deimos27]

I literally cased Gamma's Ircher vote in a neighbourhood and that argument involved indirect soft defense of Ircher's readslist with comments saying e.g. that the readslist was "RVSy" and that the high confidence figures are obviously ironic and to suggest otherwise is "ridiculous".

GLB is not in said neighbourhood

Yet fire's comments were iirc very much in the context of that particular readslist, and they said they thought it was

me

who had a good point about Ircher potentially still being in his town range.

Implies they were communicated the content of my case in a scum PT and misremembered that it was in main thread

Implies guilt

Just found this while going through Deimos' ISO.
VOTE: GLB

I would like to see what Deimos' thoughts are on this.
~C

That potential slip is a factor that has been playing in the back of my head all game wrt GLB. I suppose I am somewhat surprised that NK15 puts so much faith in my account of things, unless they are tr'ing me for something.

[Deimos27]

6894 is pretty nutty

[Deimos27]

Why did gypyx want ratmans?
VP's timeline suggests that he was the driving force of the lim.

[Deimos27]

Actually I just remembered gypyx claimed elo IC so that slot doesn't really need touching until then

[Deimos27]

There is a minimum of one scum in each of {NATO, UDSSR},due to two different nightkills

This I did not realise. So Mo was definitely not the only scum in WB.

[Deimos27]

There is a minimum of one scum in each of {NATO, UDSSR},due to two different nightkills

This I did not realise. So Mo was definitely not the only scum in WB.

Kinda crazy that if NK had put all scum in one bloc the other wouldn't have had a night kill and all its members would be automatically cleared? An improbable outcome but wild game-design wise that it would even be possible

[Deimos27]

There is a minimum of one scum in each of {NATO, UDSSR},due to two different nightkills

This I did not realise. So Mo was definitely not the only scum in WB.

Kinda crazy that if NK had put all scum in one bloc the other wouldn't have had a night kill and all its members would be automatically cleared? An improbable outcome but wild game-design wise that it would even be possible

Wondering if this increases the likelihood of scum!NK as that would be one way mechanically to guarantee that scum would be allocated to both blocs and we wouldn't accidentally have half the game cleared

[Deimos27]

In fact you are correct

[Deimos27]

Actually I just remembered gypyx claimed elo IC so that slot doesn't really need touching until then

Not sure I'm 100% on board with this. Seems like it could be a gambit, but dealing with it isn't a priority right now.

They are either conftown or confscum at elo so the slot solves itself at that point

[Deimos27]

I know Deimos is town

feelsgoodman

[Deimos27]

VOTE: SS

[Deimos27]

SS was EB right so the confirmed scum in WB is who we hunt next for poe

[Deimos27]

You're already hammered by double voter

[Deimos27]

Ah well it was worth a shot

[Deimos27]

UNVOTE:
Not because I doubt the guilty even a bit but because we can chill a little longer to plan our next moves

[Deimos27]

So to be clear your defense is that scum redirected Sakura's parity cop on you onto someone else?

[Deimos27]

You may like to claim the rest of your role now anyway

[Deimos27]

I did not know Sakura was claimed

[Deimos27]

Remind me what happened to Ydra

[Deimos27]

The way investigatives interact with that is receiving the name of the new target along with the result right

[Deimos27]

I guess Sakura will get back to us on that

[Deimos27]

Either Ydra is lying or there is indeed a scum role at least somehow akin to a redirector or bus driver. If they were town they really should've claimed by now.

[Deimos27]

Would a redirector get to redirect both of Sakura's targets?
If they only got to redirect one target how would it be decided which?
So presumably they get to redirect both.

But then they must have guessed that Sakura was only parity cop or else they wouldn't have redirected to scum with one of the shots in case they just gave a free guilty?
Had Sakura claimed the parity modifier?

[Deimos27]

Oh no wait yeah I'm being dumb.
Redirector wouldn't try intentionally to mislead Sakura with a fake positive in the first place because they don't know whether Sakura did investigate 1 scum 1 town. The only safe play is to redirect to two players with the same alignment.

[Deimos27]

So either way I don't see scum motivation to redirect a target to themselves

[Deimos27]

So it would have to be a clutch bus driver

[Deimos27]

She Claimed To Have Targeted Gypyx But T3 And Clemency Got The Notifications Instead

Did we ever get an explanation of how 2 people were affected? No normal bus driver could accomplish that.

[Deimos27]

Oh Hey Great Can We Actually Engage My Arguments Now

Which arguments
Not much point debating your alignment anymore

[Deimos27]

I entirely forgot about this game

[Deimos27]

If it's not painfully obvious I was masons with Clem/VP

[Deimos27]

VOTE: T3

[Deimos27]

I'm not seeing the reason for limming T3.

We know there is scum in Western Block from the fact there was an nk (we no longer know this of EB because SS died).

Still alive from WB:
T3/GLB/Enchant/Taly/Deimos

I am conftown through VP
GLB/Taly are locktown atp
Leaves simple PoE through limming T3 + Enchant

[Deimos27]

I may have forgotten this game exists again

[Deimos27]

Only now got prodded

[Deimos27]

Galron is E-1 right
Why is he pushing me is that a scumclaim

[Deimos27]

Is there any logic to nolimming since it's 6p

[Deimos27]

Happy birthday, SS! You have received: a lim.

Spoiler: Role PM

Welcome, Queen. You are Queen, Q5U4EX7YY2E9N, Mafia Post-Restricted Redirector 1-Shot Vanillaizer.

I Just Want To Make Everyone Smile And If I Become An Evil Villain To Accomplish That Is That Bad?

You Have Been [Dunked]: (Post Restriction): You must make an effort to talk like Queen. A prolonged failure to do so will result in your losing a night action. I will be very lenient if I see an effort is being made.
Werewire Cable (Redirector): Each night you may hypnotize someone with a Werewire cable and cause them to target another player with their action. If their action targets multiple targets, the first target will change. If it is not able to target the new target for any reason, it will fail.
Roboticized Face (1-Shot Vanillaizer): Once per game you may roboticize someone's face, transforming them into a Vanilla Townie.
Mafia (Mafia): You are aligned with the Mafia and can discuss the game with your teammates here.

You win when the Town have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Night ends at earlier but similar time tomorrow!

Reminder that S_S claimed reflexively rb'd by Ydra N2 and we have confirmation that their role is 1-shot vanillaizer so clearly S_S tried to vanillaize Ydra (logical, as scum would have thought Ydra is normal JK still at that point) so Ydra is town.

GLB later claimed vanillaized so clearly S_S ended up using the ability on GLB so they are town also (if there was even any doubt anymore).

[Deimos27]

Sakura is mech conftown now for the vig, Taly is just super duper locktown

[Deimos27]

So this is solved
VOTE: Galron

[Deimos27]

Something I'm still unclear about actually is why GLB ended up in our hood after getting vanillaized. GLB what's your flavour again

[Deimos27]

Wait no S_S also had redirector in their role so they were possibly redirecting Ydra instead of vanillaizing. Same thing, though. They wouldn't waste the redirect on scumbuddy.

[Deimos27]

My belief in the Taly TR is very very strong so if this miraculously flips green there have been pro plays by either GLB or Ydra and I task the people with figuring out which

[Deimos27]

VOTE: Fast Twilight

[Deimos27]

RIPPP I gave the losing prayer

[Deimos27]

I consciously had warning bells ringing in my head like IF SAKURA IS 2S WHY DIDN'T SHE SHOOT AGAIN TONIGHT but I convinced myself that since she caught not one but two scum singlehandedly she had to be town

[Deimos27]

I was thinking we must be so close to 13 we can still win with this

[Deimos27]

Indeed we were close to 13 lmao

[Deimos27]

My play was heaps of rubbish this game, but I can't say I'm that frustrated about the loss given how epic this ending turned out to be

[Deimos27]

15 town were dead right?

[Deimos27]

But yeah I don't think there was a guarantee that 13 faith would be amassed even by bussing from D1

[Deimos27]

Me at Taly's and Fire's throats last night in the hood like "which of these BASTARDS has the wool over my eyes" lol. And then when Fire starts speculating about what's going on with Ydra's 2S I'm like "doesn't matter to me"

[Deimos27]

Not Ydra, Sakura's 2S

[Deimos27]

I should've taken up that line of enquiry with you

[Deimos27]

Hindsight is 20/20 but this game was still winnable

[Deimos27]

I mean to be fair, It was a disloyal vig claim, so a shot on town would have missed.

OH ok yeah no this was doomed then I was always praying for you

[Deimos27]

Its actually amazing how much under the radar u got with how much paranoia we had in our hood. I legit was questioning whether deimos could be a scum mason at one point, RC was so pissed at our stupid questions.

We all considered literally everyone else in the game being scum except sakura it was pretty nuts

[Deimos27]

Again, 13 faith is so much that I don't think there was ever a guarantee of accruing it, no matter the amount of bussing. I think the role was reasonable and we had tools to catch her during the night even if otherwise it would've been pretty difficult to justify a lim there.

[Deimos27]

I considered the "no action and have a buddy claim vanillaized" play. It's something I would do. I think I rejected it because Enchant would be a terrible target for a scum vanillaizer, but I don't think it's out of the question that I would do it with you.

okay but literally no one argued it. they just were like "ur scum" and im like "well what about all these mechanic reasons im not do u think all this is fake" they would go "ohh good point"
It was literally people not paying attention to game not like they believed this was scum gambit plays which is different

shout out to JJH he was the hero town didn't deserve with how on point he was in whole game.

I did mention that you would need to be lying about being vanillaized, but admittedly I never considered that scum would intentionally vanillaize a buddy, no

[Deimos27]

Oh wait you two were talking about a fake vanillaize all along. Yeah I did mention it if not argue it because I didn't believe you were scum firmly enough at any point to argue anything

[Deimos27]

Town really didn't think very critically about mechanics this game.

I remember a very memorable scumgame where I was spewing some bullshit and then Jingle replaced in and proceeded to make a chart of all the mechanical claims and info and I could immediately tell I was sunk.

Someone like that would have been a godsend for town here. Wouldn't necessarily have made the difference, but it would have been a lot closer.

I certainly never had enough wim to be that guy. I was never solving this one given my level of effort sadly

[Deimos27]

Alright I better haul myself to bed.
Thanks to RC, well played to scum, especially sakura.

Large games definitely just aren't for me.