KTaNE [game over!]

[StrangeMatter]

Hey.

VOTE: Cat Scratch Fever

[StrangeMatter]

Why do we not want to defuse any bombs?

[StrangeMatter]

More of an actual question about what people are thinking but alright.

[StrangeMatter]

I don't fully understand this setup that's for sure.

[StrangeMatter]

Well from what I can tell, scum chooses who gets to be killed during twilight, which is essentially a night kill, except the nominated can choose whether or not that player does die.

[StrangeMatter]

I feel like we're ending up leaning a little too much into mechanics and I have a question.

VOTE: StrangeMatter

I feel like I would post 20 as scum

Ok.

VOTE: SM

Why are you sheeping GuiltyLion's vote onto me?

[StrangeMatter]

I have found a town read, but it's probably for a dumb reason lol

I'm interested. What is your town read? What is your reason?

[StrangeMatter]

@Frogsterking, do you mean by I’m out of my scumrange there? I have played with you once, which to me wouldn’t be enough to know my scumgame.

[StrangeMatter]

@Frogsterking, what do you mean by I’m out of my scumrange there? I have played with you once, which to me wouldn’t be enough to know my scum gameplay, let alone townlean.

EBWOP.

[StrangeMatter]

You can't nominate yourself, I'm here but for a short period of time before I have a flight to catch.

But I keep getting the gut feeling to be semi paranoid of Frogsterking entirely on their read on me feeling really off. I didn't get a chance to respond to that I would say even with a small scum range like mine it would be wrong to assume that I couldn't be entirely capable of more as scum, which makes me a little more suspicious of how their playing.

[StrangeMatter]

You can't nominate yourself, I'm here but for a short period of time before I have a flight to catch.

But I keep getting the gut feeling to be semi paranoid of Frogsterking entirely on their read on me feeling really off. I didn't get a chance to respond to that I would say even with a small scum range like mine it would be wrong to assume that I couldn't be entirely capable of more as scum, which makes me a little more suspicious of how their playing, especially saying I should never be scumread which gives even weirder messages.

@The Praetorian.

@The Buldge. Bad wording, didn't mean other parts of Frogster's play. I'm just saying they're right, but their reason doesn't feel very legitimate from what I can tell.

[StrangeMatter]

@The Buldge. Bad wording, didn't mean other parts of Frogster's play. I'm just saying they're right, but their reason doesn't feel very legitimate from what I can tell.

do you have thoughts on anything else frogster has said? does your current suspicion affect how you're reading their content?

I kind of have thoughts elsewhere on them (mostly through the reads) yet but I have been reading. Though at this and everything else doesn’t give me that impression, but still I can’t shake the feeling of “Are these reads actually real? And do they believe that?”

Also the more people keep talking mechanics the more I’m inclined to think scum is probably there at this point.

[StrangeMatter]

Sorry, I meant I don’t really have much thoughts elsewhere on what Frogs is doing.

[StrangeMatter]

Jeeze, I left for only about 2-3 hours and several new pages and far behind.

To answer that question The Buldge, right now I don’t at the moment really disagree with their reads, but since I don’t know much about it. Granted I was catching up and saw him Frogs talking about GuiltyLion and I really don’t agree with the justification behind that read.

[StrangeMatter]

I could see Bell and Frogs as partners actually.... oh we're gonna go into dangerous territory real soon... when I get locked into team reads...

Please don't partner hunt before there are flips. This is a waste of time and brain power.

but I like partner hunting so much more!!! like, there's 4 whole mafia... so 4 people are here with the knowledge like "ok, gotta vote anyone outside these 3..."

As logical as that sounds, I don’t agree that it works, especially with 19 players, and the scum can end up busing when absolutely needed, so it’s just highly unreliable.

[StrangeMatter]

I don’t like how Andante reacted to Dwlee pushing them, but this comment just feels very town.

[StrangeMatter]

Uhh I have a massively unfinished list so people not mentioned are essentially no clues or I have had the chance to look into.

Not willing to vote out
Andante

Would be fine with voting out.
Frogsterking
Dwlee (Partial paranoia but he just feels like how he played in Mini 2265 and I can never get a read on him.

[StrangeMatter]

Not really convinced that Cephrir is town at the moment (And I mean talking about Andante's read on him) looking through his ISO, I see a lot of fluff, with a few hint towards of solving here and there, but just mostly fluff.

[StrangeMatter]

Anyways, it's late, I need sleep, so good night everyone.

[StrangeMatter]

Uhh I have a massively unfinished list so people not mentioned are essentially no clues or I have had the chance to look into.

Not willing to vote out
Andante

Would be fine with voting out.
Frogsterking
Dwlee (Partial paranoia but he just feels like how he played in Mini 2265 and I can never get a read on him.

This is a weird list. Why are any of these people where they are?

Well it's an early reads list with mostly paranoia and slots I'm a little suspicious of and I've literally said why I think where people are though. Dwlee is paranoia but they give the same feel as they did in Mini 2265, which is partially gut but at the same time its a slot I would be fine with eliminating. Frogster's early read on me was odd since they proceed to townlean me for being outside of my scumrange, despite also knowing its a small scum range, which lines up with them saying its a weak townlean. But then they say something along the lines of these town slots are not going to be in the POE and scumreads plus nominating me indicates believing I am likely town here, which just doesn't add up.

That being said I like my vote here
VOTE: Frogsterking

[StrangeMatter]

hello friends!! ive never been a replacement before this is fun

Welcome.

Battery on my phone is dying but eh I’m definitely using it wisely here.

[StrangeMatter]

Got flashbacks to when I read Lukewarm’s reads list to Dwlee saying I would absolutely do x as town, where Dwlee was actually scum lol.

[StrangeMatter]

Okay okay so Dwlee said in my last game specifically “This lines up with what Town!Strange would do with their paranoia”. Looking at this, and going back to that game it’s something I noticed.

[StrangeMatter]

What I’m not fully understanding is the Lukewarm push, it doesn’t sit well with me since I’m not sure their slot is scum.

[StrangeMatter]

What I’m not fully understanding is the Lukewarm push, it doesn’t sit well with me since I’m not sure their slot is scum.

What don't you understand specifically about why people pushed Luke?

Sorry, I typed out what I was thinking before finishing thinking. It’s more I don’t like how much it felt like there was overwhelming support there is for the Lukewarm elim, rather than the thoughts behind the push. The thoughts I can understand but at the same time I don’t agree with the conclusions made, and still feel uncertain about if this slot actually flipping scum.

[StrangeMatter]

Absolutely think they would. With this kind of support it has it’s be the type of wagon I’d want to jump onto to have the potential to go through without being really all that suspicious.

Granted I think it might be the people who just hopped on without really an argument here though when I get home I definitely want to say scum is likely in this wagon that should be sorted.

[StrangeMatter]

Alright I’m back after another flight. Bad news is I’m stuck to using a phone for 6 hours.

@strange and CSF, why have you nominated zero people for bomb experts?

I was going to nominate Andante, but as for why I don’t have nominations I just don’t have strong townreads, and I don’t really agree with most of the nominations (I just don’t find any of them to be town) except maybe Greeting and Andante.

HEAL: Andante
HEAL: Greeting

[StrangeMatter]

Not strong but yes I do have some scumleans though I’ll need to look over them again since they seem a bit dated (and being far behind) on a short skim and seeing content from Cephrir and Frogster.

[StrangeMatter]

Ignore praetorian quote
VOTE: Lukewarm
No reason why I'm in null scum bad

Just looked through the Lukewarm wagon and I found what Dwlee (along with what Titus does in #687) says and does here a bit of an opportunistic move onto him looking back.

[StrangeMatter]

1.) Scum is sitting idly while town just wins

Btw if this is the case the team is like...

Fire (luke slot), Mala (praet slot), Andres, and idk Titus?

So if we flip in there and keep hitting scum then fine by me but I'd like to not just assume that's the case

VOTE: Fire

Maybe strange could be as well cause I think they complained about me voting fire earlier?

You literally jumped onto the Lukewarm wagon off of “Lukewarm didn’t explain scumread on me.” Which to me looked like an excuse to jump on a wagon I’d say is never a pure wagon.

[StrangeMatter]

You literally jumped onto the Lukewarm wagon off of “Lukewarm didn’t explain scumread on me.” Which to me looked like an excuse to jump on a wagon I’d say is never a pure wagon.

Well he didn't so

My point still stands that it wouldn’t be hard to make that an excuse to just jump onto a wagon like that without taking any scrutiny.

Also, why are we suddenly nominating Enchant?

[StrangeMatter]

You literally jumped onto the Lukewarm wagon off of “Lukewarm didn’t explain scumread on me.” Which to me looked like an excuse to jump on a wagon I’d say is never a pure wagon.

Well he didn't so

My point still stands that it wouldn’t be hard to make that an excuse to just jump onto a wagon like that without taking any scrutiny.

Also, why are we suddenly nominating Enchant?

Hi, apologies for the non-sequitur, but you've made references to working on a reads list and having some scum leans you need to revisit, have you made any progress on that?

Haven’t been able to get progress on this, but it’s on the list of things I really should and want to do.

[StrangeMatter]

I think it’s pretty obvious that you’re implying that I’m only posting a lot for some Scummy reason you’re not fully detailing. If you feel that way, you might as well say what that reason is.

K. Tell Strange I'm in here screaming for their head. I'm going to scum case them with the meta tells from the scum game they just completed with me pretty soon if I don't get that readslist. I did this same thing to them recently on D1 in a completed game from the newbie queue, so they'll know what to expect.

So let met get this straight, you're metaing me on one single scum game without even pointing out I have a history of not alway being as active on both alignments mind you. If you're going to meta someone at least know that one game is never enough.

It's late and also I don't have much of a reads list anyways, so bite me on that, scumread me anyways idc.

[StrangeMatter]

I hate posting readslists, but right now I feel like Bell has gone down on what I have seen so far, you've gone down for sure and I'm not at all sure how people are assuming you're even town.

[StrangeMatter]

this is p towny for frog, unless he has become self-aware enough to realize that he can act like this as scum and just torpedo the game and people will townread him for it anyway

Usually I don't count things out like that. Though, I've played one game with them, being scum knowing they were town. Maybe I'm just paranoid but I just feel like we're going to let ourselves lose to it and I don't find them townie with their playing.

I was reading but not able to really type for a while so yes @CSF.

@Frogsterking you could check my past games to confirm that but no.

[StrangeMatter]

I hate posting readslists, but right now I feel like Bell has gone down on what I have seen so far, you've gone down for sure and I'm not at all sure how people are assuming you're even town.

If you hate, why promise to post them.

I didn't say I would post them, I said I would update on them, which to me is saying down the line about those reads not posting my entire readslist every single time.

[StrangeMatter]

No. I did not.

[StrangeMatter]

No. I did not.

Damn. You seriously think I'm scum here?

Yes.

[StrangeMatter]

Oh good that game where my reads were a disaster. I can't explain that at all to be for real with how to even explain it. Some games I just feel out of it and unable to get reads I want, and other games the opposite might happen where I can't even get many reads.

[StrangeMatter]

Oh good that game where my reads were a disaster. I can't explain that at all to be for real with how to even explain it. Some games I just feel out of it and unable to get reads I want, and other games the opposite might happen where there are times when I can read people.

EBWOP.

I need sleep its 2:00 AM here.

[StrangeMatter]

I'm back I guess, not in a great mood to be playing Mafia but oh well.

[StrangeMatter]

I'm wondering, does Cephrir normally do this where he seems to be having reads, but not really saying much else? Because I don't feel like what I said earlier hasn't really changed.

[StrangeMatter]

And once again my gut instinct (mostly not feeling them being scum) was right that fire wasn't Mafia. Seriously, I might just start actually using that with how often I am right about it. Still I don't think a wagon like fire would just go unnoticed by Mafia and be used in some way that I'm not sure of.

[StrangeMatter]

And once again my gut instinct (mostly not feeling them being scum) was right that fire wasn't Mafia. Seriously, I might just start actually using that with how often I am right about it. Still I don't think a wagon like fire would just go unnoticed by Mafia and be used in some way that I'm not sure of.

Can we get a sense who your scum reads are?

Well right now I'm a lot more suspicious of Bell, Dwlee, and Titus. Dwlee's is off what I said as I believe he was just making an excuse (which is true that Lukewarm didn't explain his Dwlee read) to jump onto the wagon. Bell is a gutty scumread but it just felt really off to me. Titus is just one post that jumps on, without much of a reason other than "see where this goes" last I checked.

Cephrir is moving to around a very slightly more likely to be scum here, but I can't tell whether its intentional or not.

Frogs I need to think more about since I haven't placed much thought to that but the initial townreads and sudden 180 on me after being suspicious of me just don't sit right.

[StrangeMatter]

And once again my gut instinct (mostly not feeling them being scum) was right that fire wasn't Mafia. Seriously, I might just start actually using that with how often I am right about it. Still I don't think a wagon like fire would just go unnoticed by Mafia and be used in some way that I'm not sure of.

Can we get a sense who your scum reads are?

Well right now I'm a lot more suspicious of Bell, Dwlee, and Titus. Dwlee's is off what I said as I believe he was just making an excuse (which is true that Lukewarm didn't explain his Dwlee read) to jump onto the wagon. Bell is a gutty scumread but it just felt really off to me. Titus is just one post that jumps on, without much of a reason other than "see where this goes" last I checked.

Cephrir is moving to around a very slightly more likely to be scum here, but I can't tell whether its intentional how little he just says and just seems to be reading along, having reads, but not saying anything.

Frogs I need to think more about since I haven't placed much thought to that but the initial townreads and sudden 180 on me after being suspicious of me just don't sit right.

[StrangeMatter]

Ack EBWOP.

[StrangeMatter]

@Frogsterking. Why do you keep shading Andante?

Honestly if Frogs flips mafia here I think he spews Andante town here.

[StrangeMatter]

@Frogsterking. Why do you keep shading Andante?

Honestly if Frogs flips mafia here I think he spews Andante town here.

that's nice of you to say... in scum pt did frogs tell you how I have you as his partner? cause... based on this game, AND looking at meta, I'm 10000% certain you flip red too

Good luck with that, I won't flip red that's for sure.

[StrangeMatter]

Yeah no Frogs is probably scum here.

That's not even a shade I feel like comes from town its just fearmongering.

[StrangeMatter]

VOTE: Frogsterking

I like this.

Andante you can push me all you want day 3 but I'm just going to be here saying your read on me is unbelievably incorrect, but I want Frogsterking eliminated.

[StrangeMatter]

And on another note, Strange is in scum meta!! I was looking at meta after SRing posts this game, and the performance here mirrors a past scum game, so Strange is for sure mafia

Yes just latch onto meta (even when I was scum, there are times where people have incorrectly meta read me and townread off that) and prove Lukewarm right, along with the saying that meta reading me has rarely ever actually been right on me.

[StrangeMatter]

Thinking that Frogs!scum here is using the things they were doing as also been setting up for me being a miselimination based on association.

[StrangeMatter]

I don't think Misty would be scum that got swapped in here.

[StrangeMatter]

I don't think Misty would be scum that got swapped in here.

Why?

Who is eligible for experts today? Basically just the small pool who hasn't yet?

Idk like what Pooky said it just feels like setups, which with no night kills, it definitely seems like they were planning on setting something up.

[StrangeMatter]

They'd only have two nightkills if they didn't use a single nightkill, one from the start of the game, and the second from the two defuses that happened.

[StrangeMatter]

I do not like people’s posts this day phase so far though.

Can you expand on this?

[StrangeMatter]

I pressed submit before I finished typing whyyy.

Why do you not like people's posts from this day phase @Bell?

[StrangeMatter]

not a result, just my read I strongly believe in

Again, your read is very wrong (Going to talk about this post game but I'm just saying metaing me from experience alone really has basically never worked out in the slightest, and contributes kind of to Lukewarm's point that people rarely read me right) point that I don't even care to argue at this point at how often people just misread me all the time. Still think you're town who is just completely mislead and genuinely believes I'm scum at this point despite being completely wrong.

[StrangeMatter]

From what I've seen, Dwlee slightly pinged me scummy off the Fire wagon (Dwlee I noted has pinged increasingly TMI-ey last I checked) but I'm a little paranoid on this. Plus there are people I can't get a further read on at all which is Pooky, Titus (Yes I know I very lightly scumlean them but I just don't really have much of a read on them otherwise), and Enchant.

[StrangeMatter]

From what I've seen, Dwlee slightly pinged me scummy off the Fire/Lukewarm wagon (Dwlee I noted has pinged increasingly TMI-ey last I checked) but I'm a little paranoid on this. Plus there are people I can't get a further read on at all which is Pooky, Titus (Yes I know I very lightly scumlean them off that really annoying jump onto the Lukewarm/Fire wagon but I just don't really have much of a read on them otherwise), and Enchant.

EBWOP.

[StrangeMatter]

No thoughts on mala?

I didn't originally have any thoughts on Malakittens (though skimming they give the same vibe as Cephrir where its a little scummy but I can't make much out of it, though that makes me wonder, why did this wagon suddenly come up?), though I feel like I'm just struggling to have reads on everyone, and the aforementioned people I just can't read.

But for now,

VOTE: Dwlee

Have some work I need to finish though.

[StrangeMatter]

for every two successful bomb defusals performed by a DATS Inc. employee, they gain one nightkill. for every successful bomb defusal performed by a GB Inc. infiltrator, they gain one nightkill.

I didn't notice the second part at all, just assumed two defuses means one nightkill.

[StrangeMatter]

About the Dwlee TMI, it was mostly a gut feeling from reading their posts that feels very TMI-like but I can't really point to exactly why knowing the flips. Though I guess its also feeling of something similar to Dwlee!scum just constantly going with the consensus slots (Similar to where he sits there and allows people to just consensus onto wrong slots).

[StrangeMatter]

About the Dwlee TMI, it was mostly a gut feeling from reading their posts that feels very TMI-like but I can't really point to exactly why knowing the flips. Though I guess its also feeling of something similar to Dwlee!scum just constantly going with the consensus slots (Similar to where he sits there and allows people to just consensus onto wrong slots).

I would like you to cite actual posts please.

Not great at citing posts (or in general) but okay.

#1006
#1404
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13316311
#2810

This part pinged my gut as a little TMI-like with the read on someone I don't feel like has been neither scummy nor really townie, even checking the slot before them doesn't really give me a lot to work with.

[StrangeMatter]

About the Dwlee TMI, it was mostly a gut feeling from reading their posts that feels very TMI-like but I can't really point to exactly why knowing the flips. Though I guess its also feeling of something similar to Dwlee!scum just constantly going with the consensus slots (Similar to where he sits there and allows people to just consensus onto wrong slots).

I would like you to cite actual posts please.

Not great at citing posts (or in general) but okay.

#1006
#1404
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13316311
#2810

This part pinged my gut as a little TMI-like with the read on someone I don't feel like has been neither scummy nor really townie, even checking the slot before them doesn't really give me a lot to work with.

Where's the TMI unless I'm bussing mala here?

What I mean is with how my read is on them I don't understand the scumread on them. I really don't understand the scumread on it is where it smells TMI-ey. And your read on them is mentioned often but not explained to how you came to this conclusion. Although this is with most people on this wagon where its not explained to me why they're on Malakittens, it smells a little you have something, but looking back, I might just be completely wrong (Woo, potentially more really bad reads for this game) looking back at other posts.

Though I ask, what is your case on Malakittens?

[StrangeMatter]

Specifically what I mean from Day 1, since I noted in #2905 that you talked about them not talking at all (though that seems like a fairly surface read since lurking = scum is one of the most common assumptions ever to make).

[StrangeMatter]

And so we chose to wagon, instead of maybe doing the more logical conclusion for any of the 5 people on Malakittens right now, to say actually squeeze or prod content out of them? Yeah, I'm not going anywhere near this wagon. If it flips scum, fine, but you can count me out of being on this wagon.

[StrangeMatter]

ill make an attempt to get us to think properly about this even though it never works

don't just give me "the fire wagon must have scum on it." tell me why specific votes were scummy. show me the motivation. whose votes were opportunistic vs. well reasoned and believable.

merely being on the wagon is not convincing to me because i wanted to run him up too, even though i didn't put my vote there. give me more.

personally i haven't super looked at it, but one area i have an issue with is the rapid flurry of votes towards the end that resulted in fire being elimed without a claim. that's andres, mena, and i'd also lump in those who tried to vote him after he was already dead (i have not checked who this is) as scum could easily have not bothered counting

Literally already said this but I believe Dwlee and Titus' votes were probably the most opportunistic jumps onto the wagon. I don't buy the excuse with Lukewarm posting a readslist then replacing with "they didn't explain their reads so I vote here" which still comes off to me as a means to hop on. Titus' vote is just never explained in the slightest why they were even on the wagon in the first place. Need to reread the other ones and look at others but these are these two are probably my most suspicious of from that wagon.

@Titus, why did you join into the Fire wagon?

[StrangeMatter]

ill make an attempt to get us to think properly about this even though it never works

don't just give me "the fire wagon must have scum on it." tell me why specific votes were scummy. show me the motivation. whose votes were opportunistic vs. well reasoned and believable.

merely being on the wagon is not convincing to me because i wanted to run him up too, even though i didn't put my vote there. give me more.

personally i haven't super looked at it, but one area i have an issue with is the rapid flurry of votes towards the end that resulted in fire being elimed without a claim. that's andres, mena, and i'd also lump in those who tried to vote him after he was already dead (i have not checked who this is) as scum could easily have not bothered counting

Literally already said this but I believe Dwlee and Titus' votes were probably the most opportunistic jumps onto the wagon. I don't buy the excuse with Lukewarm posting a readslist then replacing with "they didn't explain their read on me, so I'm voting here" which still comes off to me as just a means to hop on. Titus' vote is just never explained in the slightest why they were even on the wagon in the first place. Need to reread the other ones and look at others but these are these two are probably my most suspicious of from that wagon.

@Titus, why did you join into the Fire/Lukewarm wagon?

EBWOP.

[StrangeMatter]

Besides, Malakittens is like the too obvious choice. They have done nothing in the game

do you really think all 4 scum are deepwolves?

That seems like an unreasonable conclusion to be making but with this playerlist I would expect there to be at least one deepwolf.

[StrangeMatter]

Deepwolfing is a term for people who are fairly strong at faking their town game and easily pass as town (or at least that's my definition of it), which they then use that to eventually end up winning the game being widely townread. Usually these players are competent enough to not be read scummy and last until engame. Some of which in this game I feel like would've been most likely Bell, Dwlee, and Lukewarm though granted he flipped town and I didn't believe they were scum, but I did know they were capable of faking their own town games.

I still agree with Greeting that Malakittens just seems too easy and its not hard to come up with the argument that a player isn't doing anything and is scum (it is scummy but I don't think its a one all indicative of a scum player).

[StrangeMatter]

Deepwolfing is a term for people who are fairly strong at faking their town game and easily pass as town (or at least that's my definition of it), which they then use that to eventually end up winning the game being widely townread. Usually these players are competent enough to not be read scummy and last until engame. Some of which in this game I feel like would've been most likely Bell, Dwlee, and Lukewarm though granted he flipped town and I didn't believe they were scum, but I did know they were capable of faking their own town games.

I still agree with Greeting that Malakittens just seems too easy and its not hard to come up with the argument that a player isn't doing anything and is scum (it is scummy but I don't think its a one all indicative of a scum player).

Going off that though, I have another problem with wagon, which is it doesn't feel at all like its in the interest of town to try to figure out their alignment, just kinda throw out someone scummy (Even with the cases put up this to me about Praetorian, I still feel this way). I briefly mentioned this in another post but the wagon comes up and people note they haven't talked much which yes is scummy, but not fully scum indicative should literally never be the end all for reading a slot.

I'm sorry but with all I've said here, how does nobody see this wagon as maybe a little suspicious? I just really don't get it.

[StrangeMatter]

In my experience, if you don't like a wagon, run someone else up and convince people to back you. Complaining is Zzzz and you could be scum shading a wagon on your buddy.

Alright, then let's just throw out Dwlee, the slot I can absolutely see covering his tracks as scum, and pushing convenient wagons like he did as scum in my other game.

[StrangeMatter]

Fire and Frogs were wagons that just feel way too convenient pushes.

[StrangeMatter]

Fire and Frogs were wagons that just feel way too convenient pushes.

Frogs had to go... why are you saying frogs was too convinient? Frogs, knowing catboi was an IC, refused to solve..

Yes and I agree Frogs should've gone. But at the same time Mafia knows who they want to push, even knowing Frogs didn't do anything right and was just straight up anti-town, I think scum!Dwlee despite making their case early in the game, would've just jumped onto that, even if it was a different player. Plus its an elim that for one as you've stated is one that wouldn't get any scrutiny in the slightest because of how anti-town Frogs was.

[StrangeMatter]

Like, Strange, if you hated our picks for other wagons, you're more than welcome to suggest a better one... can't just go "yall picked bad d1 and d2.." like, what did you actively do to stop those lims? nothing? then can't hate on them

Are you trying to imply I didn't try to do anything at all??? I didn't believe I had a good way to stop that wagon and now you believe I should just have no opinion on wagons looking back.

[StrangeMatter]

Sorry, I'm having a miserable week. But I mean I wanted the elimination to be somewhere else with the Day 1 Elimination (but as it turns out the person I wanted was wrong anyways WOOO) I just felt like the elimination was a stupid day 1 choice. And while yes I was one of the pushers on Frogs, but looking back I can't help it but say was the Frogsterking not at some level convenient for people to jump onto, especially as scum?

[StrangeMatter]

Strange's argument is also funny when I wasn't even on the frog wagon

Last I checked, you were still a part of the wagon despite not being on the wagon itself, when you yourself did join into the wagon at several points and were part of the group pushing (not necessarily voting) but you were in fact part of the push.

[StrangeMatter]

Strange, can I get your thoughts on andres and Titus please.

Andres is a slot I haven’t read as much into at the moment. Titus is scummy especially their really dumb move onto Fire being really bad. However I still think this read is undeveloped and not nearly enough to say that’s scum yet.

[StrangeMatter]

GuiltyLion can you explain your Cephrir read? I'm in stumped on reading them and I wanna know why you're townreading him.

[StrangeMatter]

Also, I want you to explain your read on me because right now I just cannot think of how people just haven't leaned either way on a slot like mine this far into a game.

[StrangeMatter]

Well I think it's not a great idea to explain. I think its fairly obvious what I do to push the game state towards eliminating scum is though its unlikely to be as impactful (at this point I've accepted that I don't influence games as much), but I do think pointing out things that seems really off to be town are usually scum indicative

[StrangeMatter]

Did you just hammer? Why?

[StrangeMatter]

And there goes rest of Day 3. Whoopee.

[StrangeMatter]

What even are your results though?

[StrangeMatter]

I'm annoyed if you do flip Tracker but I want to know, what were your results???

[StrangeMatter]

optimal play is dead on this website it's so irritating

I swear all my games are just cursed to have bad games at this point, and it's been getting just worse every single game.

[StrangeMatter]

Sorry but J know for a fact I gave the right information, and one of you two gave the wrong information.

[StrangeMatter]

Well again, it likely has to be one of you two who did give the wrong info. Though I suspect Dwlee a bit more with how much he expressed wanting to blow up Andres then suddenly switched.

[StrangeMatter]

Sorry, my bad.

[StrangeMatter]

Yes, Daisti didn’t directly say it was right but he did confirm it was the correct answer.

[StrangeMatter]

Doesn't help that Dwlee gave two sets of information, and the second time they were clarifying things up.

[StrangeMatter]

Can confirm I talked the least in the private thread.

[StrangeMatter]

VOTE: Dwlee

Another thing to note is they said if the bomb explodes, they believe I was scum inside a reads list they posted.

What do you mean I was confident andres was town? I said that I believed based on interaction it wasn't SVS, meaning it couldn't be 3 scum defuses if we defused last night, most likely 2 (if VP is scum), 1 (if Andres is scum), or 0 (if neither are scum). Just from the way you were arguing with him did not at all seem like two scum together.

[StrangeMatter]

As much as I would believe that, I literally explained in PT, why I thought that it wasn’t believing they were town, rather based on mechanics and an interaction that I noted.

[StrangeMatter]

As much as I would believe that, I literally explained in PT, why I thought that it wasn’t believing they were town, rather based on mechanics and an interaction that I noted.

Your thing was just you didn't think Andres/vpb was SvS but that's not exactly a hard to fabricate reason as scum

Do you seriously believe I would fabricate that as scum? And seriously, look at their interaction and tell me, yeah that is just a fabricated thought as scum.

You know why it matters because it could mean you gave the wrong info?

[StrangeMatter]

Yeah no this just reeks of Dwlee setting up an elimination at this point.

[StrangeMatter]

Yes I am setting up an elimination on you right now why is that scummy?

Because it’s well within your scum range at this point to me and is textbook scumplay to set scummy town up for an elim who is easy to go through with?

[StrangeMatter]

Yes.

I’ve seen you do this before don’t act like you have’s done this before lol.

[StrangeMatter]

I gotta go now I need to work but I want people to actually think about this.

[StrangeMatter]

Unlike that you’ve said things that to me, makes it look exactly like an intentional setup. Not to mention it just doesn’t seem to me like you believe you believably think hard that I’m scum at this point either unlike with Frogs.

[StrangeMatter]

Pretty much. I know for a fact I didn’t lie but no I’m scum and people just believe I would intentionally blow up Andres.

[StrangeMatter]

Pretty much. I know for a fact I didn’t lie but no I’m scum and people just believe I would intentionally blow up Andres.

This is such a funny post

I wish I were funny but no. I don't care anymore if I die in this game, I'm just saying what I think so screw off.

Also my reason for thinking you're just scum setup is partially that gut feeling I get from reading half of your posts and read on me (It's a muted feel about your reads). It's also scumplay I have seen you done before, and from what you've pointed out in another game, I know for a fact, that you know I'm easy to eliminate (but in that game you didn't).

Explaining the Andres not SVS comes down to a simple idea. They were arguing a lot in the PT, I assumed they weren't SVS (They weren't), and I believed that there isn't 3 scum defuses (close to the wincon scum could go for but I don't know if they are) off of this. So it came down to if we defused this bomb, the defuses would be either 2, 1, or 0 scum defuses (I really don't want scum anywhere near that wincon at all), meaning it would likely be safe to defuse it that night.

Getting really tired of repeating myself there.

[StrangeMatter]

But anyways on townreads end, Cephrir to me is town, their recent string of posts I mostly agreed with what they were saying, and was kind of asking myself similar questions to me, which is a towntell to me.

I don't like how GL is interacting with Dwlee right now, but ehhh I don't believe them to be likely partners.

[StrangeMatter]

But anyways on townreads end, Cephrir to me is town, their recent string of posts I mostly agreed with what they were saying, and was kind of asking myself similar questions to me, which is a towntell to me.

I don't like how GL is interacting with Dwlee right now, but ehhh I don't believe them to be likely partners.

*Sorry, I meant from them on D3, I think Cephrir is town.

[StrangeMatter]

And I mean by GL interaction, I mixed up what I meant, what I did mean was I just don't like how they're going about my push on Dwlee.

[StrangeMatter]

And I mean by GL interaction, I mixed up what I meant, what I did mean was I just don't like how they're going about my push on Dwlee.

Can you answer my question? Why do you think scum!Dwlee re-clarified their solve if they planned to give a fake one? Doesn't that serve no purpose other than risking making themself look suspicious?

I would imagine scum giving bad info would just do it cleanly, but you suggested Dwlee giving "two sets of instructions" was scummy and I don't follow that reasoning or why it's convincing to you. And maybe can you explain your read on VPB?

That's not at all what I was thinking, I was thinking that points towards that it makes more it was bad info initially and they wanted to correct it. I'll be honest this one is very tinfoily thought and probably completely wrong thinking about it. But still, I just feel like Dwlee did a scum setup and isn't town as I've said before.

My read on VPB is they seem townie from what I've seen, but at the same time I'm really not super sure about this slot enough like others.

[StrangeMatter]

Either is kinda tinfoily anyways, but I still meant that.

Still I'm thinking and it has to be at least one of us, and I know it wasn't me who gave the wrong information.

[StrangeMatter]

@GuiltyLion, why do you think that Dwlee wouldn't bus Malakittens? In fact, I really want you to explain your Dwlee townread.

[StrangeMatter]

Well then I'm fine with flipping and proving everyone wrong. I just don't care enough about this game anymore, Frogs dying destroyed my WIM, and how that night went down and now I'm being opportunistically pushed when both slots would absolutely gain from framing it on me its just, I hate everything about this game, my reads are probably garbage, I can't get a good read on way too many people, and I'm just sitting here pushing someone with nobody ever believing me ever.

So you know what? Fuck it vote me out.

[StrangeMatter]

Yes I'm very much ATEing at this point not just venting.

[StrangeMatter]

^

[StrangeMatter]

VOTE: Strange

JUST

LOLD

it's not Strange. that much I know

Wait what?

[StrangeMatter]

No, I want you to answer that @Andante what do you mean its not me?

[StrangeMatter]

No, I want you to answer that @Andante what do you mean its not me?

am I wrong? are you the mafia?

You are right i am not mafia. But I'm wondering where this conclusion comes from.

[StrangeMatter]

Sure I guess, but I am VT.

[StrangeMatter]

A VT with literally no abilities.

[StrangeMatter]

After the recent events I'm very much second guessing off what seemed to me like a townie vibe, I still could absolutely see this as Dwlee scum but idk if anyone else sees this way at all.

[StrangeMatter]

As stated I know for a fact scum!Dwlee would at least try to make an opportunistic pushes on places as scum (vibe on their pushing me just felt off), and I forgot to mention that I've seen him play for towncred before as well (I specifically remember incorrectly making an assumption and everyone went with that). However, thinking about what I said about his interactions with Andante and I thought about from what I remember agreeing with someone (I think it was what Cephrir said but I haven't checked) was that I think VP Baltar though as scum probably benefits the most out of it.

[StrangeMatter]

If that were the case then it would be Dwlee being the only other person who defused, though I don't fully understand your question?

[StrangeMatter]

My bad.


I don't really agree with that Enchant, and here's what I mean.

I'm just assuming roles for talking about theory here. Say VP scum, Dwlee Town, I'm Town.

So I scumread Dwlee, they scum read me, and we both get put into a group of experts to solve the bomb. Had VP given the wrong information as scum, likely resulting in both me and Dwlee hard tunneling into each other, which to me is often beneficial towards scum. In fact, its a play I've been a part of to turn townies against each other.

[StrangeMatter]

Oh gosh.

VP-scum already have 50% wincon, and he decides to risk ass and explode Simple Doctor claim of which probably will be disbelieved?

Of course.

But does it not seem like they wouldn't have a good reason to do that?

[StrangeMatter]

I don't know why I even explained this then.

[StrangeMatter]

I don't feel good at how easy it is to eliminate SM. But that's all I got.
Their emotions seem a little off.
Their hestiation and doubt also seems a little. Compare Dwlee's check of Baltar before going for SM compared to the other way around.
I don't think the third on the wagon thing is much of anything. Because that's more of a silly thing than something you scum read someone else for.

What is Baltar doing here btw, rather, which one does he think is scum?

Meh, I've just kinda given up trying too hard to defend myself, because it literally will never change anything, especially as often I get horribly misread as Town like what Lukewarm said.

[StrangeMatter]

Learning how to survive as either alignment is a skill too.

Do you think I haven't tried learning that past? Do you know how much its actually worked? Never. Not. Once. It doesn't matter anymore.

[StrangeMatter]

Learning how to survive as either alignment is a skill too.

Do you think I haven't tried learning that past? Do you know how much its actually worked? Never. Not. Once. It doesn't matter anymore.

Don't be silly.

Maybe it is silly, but it won't happen, not without some weird outside factor at this point.

[StrangeMatter]

See you all in dead chat.

Keep an eye on interactions around my slot because it’s usually telling.

[StrangeMatter]

Wait I miscounted, nevermind.

[StrangeMatter]

I won’t, but please do heed that advice.

Also I miscount a lot.

[StrangeMatter]

Well I know I won’t flip Mafia but I hope whoever’s actually town rethinks this game.

[StrangeMatter]

Just got here.

Oh I will.