KTaNE [game over!]

[VP Baltar]

Catboi is lazy camping on their. Dwlee's vote is pretty meh. Kittens is on there despite not posting. Frogster hasn't even really explained why fire is scum.

It's a dumpster fire of a wagon.

[VP Baltar]

okay i was 100% expecting that so im not sure why i asked

what was bad about it and why is that one vote enough to make you townread fire

The votes are not why I townread fire.

The reason fire is getting voted is because of Luke's play, which sure, fine. But also, fire is asking questions and has takes on the game that are

not bad.

Someone, I think maybe CSF?, said he is perhaps being slightly reactive, which is probably the best point against him I've seen made. But also, he's getting bagged for shit he didn't have anything to do with or that aren't even really being explained. I've been town in those situations. It sucks and you end up reacting a lot more because you're trying to be a good townie and not get killed. Also, look at fire's town meta. He is well within that range.

I mean, maybe I'm way off base and I'm going to eat shit if fire gets flipped red here, but I feel like I need to intervene here because this wagon has a lot of smoke and mirrors driving it while there are just way better people to wagon today, imo.

Why is that one post you quoted enough to join a serious wagon over?

[VP Baltar]

@vp if you thought Misty's vote was bad/scummy, why vote andres instead of there? misty/MT slot is the 2nd wagon rn. i see you said you wanted to reread MT in 1139 but don't see any further attempts to sort there. i guess she disappeared but still

I do want to reread MT still. I just didn't have time today because I had so many pages to catch up on. I might go there later, probably will have time to ISO MT tomorrow. For now though, I think andres looks p scummy.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Andres

This is the way

[VP Baltar]

vp part of the reason im confused by it is that you are normally, like, all gung ho about pushing for 2 dueling wagons d1

and me and MT/misty have been the top 2 wagons since 991. misty is at 5 votes and im at 7 rn, i think

so it's kinda weird to me that during that time, you have spent most of it as the only vote on strange, and then now you started a new wagon on andres

pls explain

I am definitely for dueling wagons D1. I think enough people can see the logic of andres scum to make that a second wagon. I'm not gonna blind vote someone I haven't read the scum case on over someone I think is scummy if we aren't on deadline.

[VP Baltar]

Also, it's fucking wild that andres makes ZERO mention of Praetorian, when almost the first thing andres always does as town is feel out koba. I think Praetorian's play was questionable enough I would think andres would say something about it.

[VP Baltar]

If you think andres is scum too, you can't lose by joining this wagon frog

[VP Baltar]

Fire your votes and unvotes in the last like 10 hours are weird af. I do not follow your reasoning. You think me and csf are pumping up frogster? Like, what is the logic there?

[VP Baltar]

I love that high is an alignment now

Also, not really commenting on the pages since I went to sleep, but this one did get me.

[VP Baltar]

148 - Interestingly enough, I really don’t like this response from VPB. What does it matter when was the last time you rolled Scum? Like why do you feel self-conscious enough that you decide to actively state when you last rolled Scum? It’s irrelevant to your chances of being Scum in this game. The reflex to answer in this way feels like a bad sign.

Are you actually reading the game though? Frog stated I haven't been scum in awhile, and I pointed out that's not accurate. How the fuck do you walk away from that and say I'm being self-conscious?

How do I not walk away from you responding to the attack that relies on a logical fallacy by providing an appeasing response instead of bashing the logic while saying you’re being self-conscious? And I haven’t read whatever else you’re referencing here so yeah, not sure how I’m supposed to factor that in. I also didn’t think the initial reaction was silly. Since, you know, I had the same reaction.

This is some bullshit. You think I should attack Frog, who I townread, because he has bad logic rather than answer his question? How is that being productive?

Like, yeah Frog says wild things I don't agree with, but if I'm townreading him it ends up being a huge distraction to just argue pedantic points about it rather than answer his question and try to get him to a point where he stops tunneling for bad reasons. I know for a fact there isn't actually anything to see there, so helping him arrive at that conclusion is going to be a way more town-positive outcome than me having a shit throwing fight with him.

Look at the big fight between you two I'm having to read now. I think it's pretty much bullshit that you see this as scum indicative of me. Despite claims to the contrary, I actually think you're the one who entered the game trying to pump up frog on some nonsense about me, and you're kind of bitter it backfired on you.

[VP Baltar]

You didn't plop down a vote. Why didn't you vote someone?

You fault me for putting Heal votes down without reading everything (which if I’m being realistic, the odds that I get 8 Town and no Scum even if I read every word D1 are not great), but you want me to place my single elimination vote already? Why?

My strongest SR from the early going was VPB. I’m not ready to vote there until I have actually at least read the entirety of what’s been posted so far so I can be surer there aren’t Scummier slots.

Good question from Bell, a sad reply from andres.

The logic of healing becuase you can always change it applies to voting too. Except there is the additional scum cover motivation I noted above, so....

Except a majority ends the voting phase and forces twilight, healing doesn’t. But hey, probably a meaningless distinction to you.

oh boy....

[VP Baltar]

Yeah whatever VPB you’re wrong about my alignment and I perhaps misread the intention behind a post of yours. I’m sorry you think that’s bullshit. I didn’t know I couldn’t be wrong, but Frog can be because they’re more “obviously Town” or something.

Why are you being so woe is me? If you state some nonsense about me, I'm going to call it out. I don't see how you're a victim here.

As far as frogster, yeah, I expect your level of play and thinking to be more rigorous. Frogster kind of throws spaghetti at the wall and sees what sticks. A lot of his posts I skim at best. On yours I read every word because if you're town, I want to link up with you. This victim game just makes me more annoyed with you.

[VP Baltar]

@andres. Pooky doesn't play fair. I wouldn't bother expecting that.

Anyhow, I'm going to back off for a bit on you andres because if you're town, I think you're reacting badly under pressure and your posts are weirdly making me mad. I want to hear more of your thoughts on the game.

Did you ever respond to me asking why you didn't mention Praetorian/koba in your catch up? I found that strange.

also:

HEAL: bell if I didn't do that already.

[VP Baltar]

Fire your votes and unvotes in the last like 10 hours are weird af. I do not follow your reasoning. You think me and csf are pumping up frogster? Like, what is the logic there?

yea they are idk man

i saw yours and CSF's case for andres and i thought it looked good, so i joined it, following logic over gut. then andres came back and his posts felt like how i felt with frog, and my gut came back strong and won out over the prior logic and i no longer liked the push on him

and now... i still prefer misty but im not super confident in it. i think that there is clearly something scummy in that situation where the andres push started. i think some people will prob think that it's me. i just hope that if they do flip me and find out that it wasn't me, they will look very closely at that. so i amend my earlier statement, there is something worth reading in that section

as for you and csf, yes i think one of you probably is pumping up frog. csf moreso but i was concerned about your lack of consideration for misty

This reads very hedgy in every direction. Also, I don't see how you see me as pumping up frog when my issues with andres didn't really have anything to do with whatever nonsense frog was talking. In fact, I was yelling at frog to stop talking nonsense (hero solving etc) at that time.

Why are you being so indecisive this game suddenly?

[VP Baltar]

I think that's been pretty obvious by my drop in activity... idk what the VC is, idk the deadline,

I have a few people I'm looking at,

who are those people, out of curiosity?

I've certainly noticed you have gone into the background from early game, so it'd be good to know where your head is at a little, even if you feel disengaged.

[VP Baltar]

I see catboi has posted a giant wall i need to read. (but thank you for actually trying to make a fire case)

pedit - argh this game is moving fast right now and I'm at work. Andres claimed? which post?

[VP Baltar]

Why did he refuse? Wtf?

[VP Baltar]

Summarize everything in that hood? What each of you said

Yeah, I would love just a general summary.

[VP Baltar]

So catboi made himself defuser?

[VP Baltar]

So catboi made himself defuser?

No his switcheroo only works if he wasn't voted as expert
But he was
So someone else messed with that

Oh right.

[VP Baltar]

I wanna know why VP lived in hood 2... that's what I'm curious about...

Because I'm town. I'm very confused why you are calling andres town btw.

[VP Baltar]

catboi

outed his role in our PT and

Frogsterking

outright refused to solve and did everything in his power to sabotage the process, disregarding any relevant points raised and attempting to derail the PT in any possible way he could.

catboi

's role claim was an

extremely

improbable one to make for scum, because it can be verified almost immediately. If we bomb solved, he would have been confirmed. If the bomb exploded, his role would be revealed in the flip. It makes zero sense as town to not believe it.

Frogsterking

refused to even provide any answer to the puzzle.

In these circumstances this is basically outing himself as scum.

Yeah, I don't love that.

[VP Baltar]

is frogster a jester or something?

[VP Baltar]

And once again my gut instinct (mostly not feeling them being scum) was right that fire wasn't Mafia. Seriously, I might just start actually using that with how often I am right about it. Still I don't think a wagon like fire would just go unnoticed by Mafia and be used in some way that I'm not sure of.

Can we get a sense who your scum reads are?

[VP Baltar]

This is a non-bastard game, right? Jester is the only thing I can think of.

[VP Baltar]

This is a non-bastard game, right? Jester is the only thing I can think of.

game's confirmed to be 15:4

cool.

VOTE: frogsterking

[VP Baltar]

HEAL: enchant
HEAL: bell

[VP Baltar]

i feel like frog is going to flip town but it really doesn't matter. this clown needs to get out of our mafia game either way

What the fuck would you do if players that almost got voted out showed up, defused the guy in like 10 minutes, and the guy hardclaims "I'm a daredevil innocent child"

dude, if they were IC, the mod confirms that in thread. You would instantly know the next day if catboi was lying.

[VP Baltar]

I strongly encourage you to ignore whatever

Frog

is saying and follow me,

Andante

,

Andresvmb

and

catboi

onto this.

did catboi call frog scum too?

[VP Baltar]

I strongly encourage you to ignore whatever

Frog

is saying and follow me,

Andante

,

Andresvmb

and

catboi

onto this.

did catboi call frog scum too?

Yes, he was literally grilling me for disbelieving at first.

Andante

can confirm this.

thx. Why was he townreading andres?

[VP Baltar]

Ok, Summarizing catboi's for yall here

Townreads, strongest to weakest: Andante, Andres, Greeting, Bell, VP Baltar, Menalque, GuiltyLion, Pooky, Enchant

Null Reads: Titus, Cephrir, CSF, Mistyx

Scum Reads: Frogsterking, dwlee, StrangeMatter, Malakittens

so with that, I'll

HEAL: Enchant
HEAL: GuiltyLion

@VP here was catboi's reads

yes, thank you!

[VP Baltar]

@VP

After you see my role flip shoot Andante, andres or Greeting

Whatever your flip, I don't see how andres wasn't scum saved by that fire wagon yesterday.

[VP Baltar]

hey guys, what's going on in this thread

[VP Baltar]

And menalque

Mena said in our bomb PT that he wouldn't be around until tomorrow

[VP Baltar]

Frog, do you accept now that catboi was town? Does that change your reads at all?

[VP Baltar]

actually Frog scum almost certainly hard confirms everyone else in that hood as town right? Assuming he sacrificed himself to take out IC catboi, means there wasn't a better buddy who was worse positioned than he was to take the fall

Unless there were role reasons perhaps. What you're saying maybe makes some sense though. (I'm thinking about andres here)

[VP Baltar]

I guess the frog scum play here was to get catboi, a good player, into a vulnerable position and just kamikaze him? It's kind of silly, especially since frog was pretty widely town read yesterday. So, GL is probably right. maybe they thought andres wasn't going to cooperate with bomb solving or something, and then when everyone started to solve right away, frog just tried to do the dirty work. Doesn't explain why he wouldn't just give wrong directions though and not draw so much heat immediately.

[VP Baltar]

HEAL: guiltylion

[VP Baltar]

They proposed that players claim as well earlier in the process

Wait, frogster tried to get everyone in the PT to claim?

[VP Baltar]

You have three players telling you Frog is outted Scum and you put this out?

check the vote count there, bud.

You think I'm giving you a free pass? Explain your vote on fire yesterday.

[VP Baltar]

Like do you really think if Frog flips Scum, 1772 (or most of the other posts attacking me) is a distancing post? And if I wanted to create theater, do you really think I openly say I would limit my interactions with Frogsterking? I mean that’s a bit absurd.

I think it's more absurd that you think you should be town read when the end of the fire wagon looked entirely meant to save you. I don't think town you would just brush that off as not looking scummy at all.

If frog flip scum, that helps a town!andres case, but no I don't think it's beyond reason frog could be saving you if you have a better role or something. I have no idea how to explain frog's play!

[VP Baltar]

I mean your skepticism of my slot is completely ridiculous.

lol ok

[VP Baltar]

Frog was trying their very best to absolutely bury me.

Frog probably spent way more time calling me scum yesterday than you, fyi.

[VP Baltar]

If Frog flips Scum, I’m never Scum. Just never the case. It would be sad if you thought that’s a sensible next step.

sounds TMI to me. But we can kill froggy, no prob.

[VP Baltar]

I was sheeping catboi.

This is some scummy shit too. At least admit you voted to save your neck. Don't blame catboi. Take some responsibility for your vote.

Pedit: Belllll. You will have fun I promise.

[VP Baltar]

Did you even look at the votes Frog put down yesterday? And the arguments? They were LOUDLY arguing for fire + Me as the Scum Team. Like what?!

Yeah, long before that and for most of the game, he was arguing I was scum. I could rightly see arguing with frog would be a shitfest that was pointless. You however engage in some endlessly useless arguing...so yeah, not out of the realm of theater at all. I don't think anything about your fighting was unfakeable

[VP Baltar]

Also can someone give me a summary. There are a lot of walls.

Catboi claimed his role last night in the thread (if he defused the bomb, he'd be made IC), and then frogster killed him anyway

[VP Baltar]

Why did they kill him when catboi was obvious town though.

Frog is probably scum here.

[VP Baltar]

They weren’t even in the murder pile. Also, why did frog admit to blowing them
Up.

I don't know on why frog took that approach. It's befuddling for sure.

[VP Baltar]

VP, everyone in that hood was completely certain that andres was town and didn't find it suspicious or scum motivated andres was there at all or catboi was the diffuser.

I don't get why no one would find those things suspicious. But still doesn't mean you kill obvtown catboi over it!

It's a bit too much tinfoil for me to believe you just went off the deep end there though and didn't realize what you were doing.

[VP Baltar]

Just give a solve Frog.
and then go spam in the dead thread or whatever.

[CSF, VP, Guilty Lion, andres]

Glad I made it back on the list w/ my boy andres

[VP Baltar]

It's kind of wild to me that yall claimed in the bomb PT. If this was Frogster's idea, did someone second it? Anyone support that, and if so what was their reason?

[VP Baltar]

In conclusion, it happened organically, but Frog argued for it, and I countered that it was way too early in the game for that, and that it just wasn’t sensible or needed.

Ok, thank you for explaining how it happened at least.

[VP Baltar]

I also noted that I wouldn’t have needed to claim to get me through yesterday, and then make myself a target by swapping myself into the PT. As a strategic decision, attracting heat when I had weathered the storm yesterday and gotten a claim out (if I were Scum) didn’t seem sensible, but you all have to judge that.

Let's assume you are town, why do you think there was such a frenzy for the fire wagon yesterday as soon as your wagon took off a little bit?

[VP Baltar]

Like you can’t fault me for thinking the arguments against fire were reasonable and not argue against all of the other players that also landed there. I’m not hiding and saying I don’t own my vote I do. But you asked me what I relied on for it and when I tell you you say it’s bullshit. Well, it is what it is.

Eh, not really what I asked you. I asked you to explain your vote on fire, as in what did you find scummy? And you basically said "well catboi wanted it and I trusted him," which of course looks to me like you're putting it on a dead player.

It definitely is what it is. What I am trying to assess is whether you found fire scummy or just wanted to save yourself, which doesn't even necessarily make you scum.

The biggest thing that points to you being scum is the sheer speed that people powered that wagon through based on catbois case. I was there and didn't even have time to fully read his case before people ended it!

As far as the lack of NK, I have no idea, but in your world pooky should be lock town, yeah?

[VP Baltar]

Lol oh that pedit was andante not andres

[VP Baltar]

why should pooky be lock town to me?

Ignore that part. It is pretty coffee times here and I saw "and***" In the pedit going after pooky right after andres was taking town cred for stopping a NK on pooky so I was like "OH NO HE DIDNT"....but it was I who cannot read!

[VP Baltar]

You’re blaming me for all of the votes that followed catboi’s case, and that’s just unfair.

This was not what I said at all.

[VP Baltar]

And you’re continuing to argue that I’m aligned with Frog. And I have to tell you - it is the worst conclusion I have ever seen.

*gestures broadly at Frogster's iso

It hurts man.

[VP Baltar]

I think fire is e-2 rn

lol

[VP Baltar]

LMAOOO I BELIEVED THAT WAS E2 THOUGH.. DON'T TRUST ME!!!!

lol only teasing <3

[VP Baltar]

I think I know what this whole deal was about.

Frogsterking

slipped through into our group without any machinations, but wanted to keep the townreads he gained Day 1. But the scums also wanted to get rid of

catboi

and blame it on a townie.

Andresvmb

got inserted into our group as a result of scum action. I have no doubts about it, because putting him of all players into the group of the most widely townread players while kicking

catboi

into the bomb defuser seat was definitely not meant to benefit town. It became apparent to me,

catboi

and

Andante

instantly that it seems extremely improbable that

Andresvmb

is scum and gets pushed in as bomb defuser like that.

The original plan was probably to have the group go as normal, with

Frogsterking

providing a wrong solution, and when the bomb exploded blame it on

Andresvmb

. But when

Frogsterking

realised we're not buying this, he chose to improvise. And the improvisation was to confuse everyone, which basically resulted in him outing himself as scum.

This makes a lot of sense actually.

[VP Baltar]

lol
everyone: "I wanna hammer frogs!!!"
**frogs chilling on e-1**
no one wants it...

If I could only vote twice

[VP Baltar]

Wait! I take that back, did titus answer me yet

No, don't think so

[VP Baltar]

Rundown of what happened in the pt? Especially why Mistyx was there?

Mistyx said she didn't know why she was there.

We talked a bit about it and assumed scumfuckery was happening. Bell and GL suspected each other were scum, while I suspected Mistyx was a scum plant.

GL put his solve in first, then Bell. Mistyx kind of dragged her feet. I softed my role and why lying about the solve would be bad for scum, and then Mistyx submitted her info.

She said a few times she was metaing me or something before giving info, but idk if I believe it.

[VP Baltar]

I softed my role and why lying about the solve would be bad for scum

Did you mean to say "would be bad for town"?

No. I'm saying I directly threatened anyone who lied, meaning if Mistyx was scum, she would be taking a risk by lying.

[VP Baltar]

Why?

Do you want to be forced to kill every defuser from now on until we confirm that he was town? That's where we will be at if we let him have 3.

I agree with this logic. If I land in the hot seat again, you probably need to lim me to cut down on wifom.

[VP Baltar]

I found Bell's insistence that GL is probably scum to be very weird last night. Bell, does our success change your thoughts?

Titus - I think you need to give some reads and analysis now that we have had a couple flips.

[VP Baltar]

I don't think Misty would be scum that got swapped in here.

Why?

Who is eligible for experts today? Basically just the small pool who hasn't yet?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: mala

Let's go.

[VP Baltar]

not gonna lie, town frog doing what he did wasting my effort in that PT, has completely just made me not want to care. Strang maf is the only thing I'm like absolutely certain in right now. and uhh yeah probably won't be here tomorrow

Can you explain a bit more why frog makes you not want to play the game now? I get the frustration, but we also did what we had to do there.

[VP Baltar]

Dwlee I noted has pinged increasingly TMI-ey last I checked)

You have examples of this TMI?

[VP Baltar]

I may SR strange... but that's a read I can agree with (for some different reasoning though)

VOTE: Dwlee

Huh? Why flip here?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: baltar

Kitty save kitty.

oh, and lastly that despite frog's (probable) relative insanity, his flipping town does mean that all of GL/andres/andante should be looked at again, and what frog said about the PT does actually need to be weighed

While I'm glad you're ready to look at andres again, I doubt froggy has much of value to comb over considering he seemed to have lied about his role and did murder an IC. What is your thought on greeting, btw?

[VP Baltar]

yeah umm VP having 2 bombs worries me tbh, and going "frog had value!!! must read into it!!" is not something I really want to deal with... frog just trolled around in the PT why are you implying all 3 of me greeting andres lied about what went on??

Uh...this is not what I said at all.

[VP Baltar]

yeah umm VP having 2 bombs worries me tbh, and going "frog had value!!! must read into it!!" is not something I really want to deal with... frog just trolled around in the PT why are you implying all 3 of me greeting andres lied about what went on??

Uh...this is not what I said at all.

You going to reply to this andante?

I also find your reads incredibly stagnant. You were on me D1, then you found a reason to get off me with frogster, now you're back on me. I think your strange vote lacks inspiration (and conviction since you voted with her like two seconds later).

I really don't know who you actually think is scum and why you think that.

[VP Baltar]

About the Dwlee TMI, it was mostly a gut feeling from reading their posts that feels very TMI-like but I can't really point to exactly why knowing the flips. Though I guess its also feeling of something similar to Dwlee!scum just constantly going with the consensus slots (Similar to where he sits there and allows people to just consensus onto wrong slots).

I would like you to cite actual posts please.

[VP Baltar]

how are my reads stagnant?

They're boring and unchanging based upon new information. If you would like me to cite a dictionary for you, I will.

[VP Baltar]

Mafia will not make him defuser again regardless of alignment.

Sounds like a challenge mafia.

[VP Baltar]

Oh good, i was starting to worry there wasn't enough resistance to a mala wagon

This is my thought. We go from no one buying the scum wifom, to suddenly VP must die now because wifom!

[VP Baltar]

I really left that on the table, damn.

[VP Baltar]

HEAL: dwlee

[VP Baltar]

Praetorian had a scummy and awkward entrance to the game and then malakittens hasn't posted content for two days. They were on the fire mislim. That's the case.

[VP Baltar]

And so we chose to wagon, instead of maybe doing the more logical conclusion for any of the 5 people on Malakittens right now, to say actually squeeze or prod content out of them? Yeah, I'm not going anywhere near this wagon. If it flips scum, fine, but you can count me out of being on this wagon.

Well, my feeling is that the people leading us so far have gotten two miselims, so maybe we need to flip the script and be hunting elsewhere. I think my PoE is far more likely to hit scum than someone like Andante coming in and trying to push the same tired shit from D1.

I'm not sold on your dwlee TMI posts. But if you have other thoughts on where to lim, I'm listening. I personally think we should be looking at the fire wagon. There's a lot of focus on the flashy night game so far and not that much actual thought being put toward finding scum through day play analysis.

[VP Baltar]

personally i haven't super looked at it, but one area i have an issue with is the rapid flurry of votes towards the end that resulted in fire being elimed without a claim. that's andres, mena, and i'd also lump in those who tried to vote him after he was already dead (i have not checked who this is) as scum could easily have not bothered counting

Add Titus to this list.

[VP Baltar]

Ceph's assessment of the fire wagon now that he has read up on it is about the same as my own.

In our night 1 bomb PT, I listed andres/Titus/mala as the most likely scum on that wagon, and I still think we should lim in that group. Their votes are all terribad.

Mala is probably the most shot in the dark if I'm being real, but I kind of like the resistance we are seeing.

Yesterday when I was pushing on andres, his incredulity that anyone could possibly read him as scum struck me as quite off. Andres can be prickly sometimes, but he is not unreasonable, and any reasonable person would look at the fire wagon and have some level of suspicion toward him. Obv frog complicated my push there yesterday. On the other hand, we still have no NK, so maybe he doc'ed successfully?

Titus, meanwhile, has been abnormally quiet and has promised content a few times, but never delivered. Titus is a very smart player and is usually in the mix solving. I'm waiting for her to wow me, and I want to hear more of her andres thoughts...but I don't think I can wait forever.

[VP Baltar]

Someone needs to explain why VP bal shouldn’t just be investigated before anyone makes the argument they should be eliminated instead.

Cop me baby

[VP Baltar]

I investigated VPB he's a dirty scumfuck

Gonna have to get in line

[VP Baltar]

Now I'm paranoid pooky is setting me up. Jokes on him though, I want to be defuser.

[VP Baltar]

Try it again scum fucks

[VP Baltar]

Why you avoiding the mala wagon enchant?

[VP Baltar]

Tired: Letting Bell be a town leader

Wired: Andres and Titus posting literally anything.

HEAL: strangematter

[VP Baltar]

I'd be happy if any of Mistyx/Titus/Mala/maybe Andres were limmed today

This is the way

[VP Baltar]

Who did you protect last night and why?

[VP Baltar]

I protected Bell. I trusted catboi’s analysis basically.

Who are your town reads? I find this a weird protect since Bell was main driver on the fire wagon and would have been unlikely to ever be killed.

[VP Baltar]

I protected Bell. I trusted catboi’s analysis basically.

Who are your town reads? I find this a weird protect since Bell was main driver on the fire wagon and would have been unlikely to ever be killed.

{Andante, Greeting, Bell} are probably the only solid TRs I have.

And out of that group, you thought Bell was most likely to be shot?

[VP Baltar]

Yes andres, who was a few votes away from being eliminated claimed doctor unprompted.
Good point enchant *thumbs up*

What did his first wagon get to? I don't remember it being THAT close, but I think I was sleeping at that time and could be misremembering.

[VP Baltar]

I am being pushed by too many players and my claim doubted too widely for me to have anyone else as solidly Town. For the record.

Do you think you're being unfairly sussed?

[VP Baltar]

It’s the only player that made sense for me to protect out of that group mechanically.

I'm not following what you mean mechanically?

[VP Baltar]

I am being pushed by too many players and my claim doubted too widely for me to have anyone else as solidly Town. For the record.

Do you think you're being unfairly sussed?

I think that Frog’s push of my slot was in extreme bad faith. I think it was ridiculous, and it was unfounded. I continue to feel that some of the arguments against me make no sense. And I think you’re not putting yourself in my shoes when you see attacks like the one conducted by Frog and not think that maybe I think that was absurdly aggravating and took a lot out of me.

I don't care about frog, fwiw. I'd still vote him 100/100 times in that situation.

[VP Baltar]

It’s the only player that made sense for me to protect out of that group mechanically.

I'm not following what you mean mechanically?

I have a modifier remember?

Hmm, ok. I forgot yall went mass insanity and full claimed because frog told you to.

[VP Baltar]

wait, is the frog lim being debated? lol frog 1000% had to go... Andres was in that pt too...

Andres is only defending it to himself....no clue why

[VP Baltar]

Look up chainsaw next

[VP Baltar]

In my experience, if you don't like a wagon, run someone else up and convince people to back you. Complaining is Zzzz and you could be scum shading a wagon on your buddy.

[VP Baltar]

What other convenient wagons has dwlee pushed?

[VP Baltar]

Fire and Frogs were wagons that just feel way too convenient pushes.

Fire I can agree with. Frogs had to die regardless of alignment. You can't let someone live if they fake role claim and then sabotage an IC

[VP Baltar]

Andante jinxing me

[VP Baltar]

my dog is at the vet and I'm just stressed about that (she should be fine, just a spay... but still)

She will be ok!

[VP Baltar]

Strange, can I get your thoughts on andres and Titus please.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: titus

Post or die!

[VP Baltar]

Titus: Posts "A"

Get on this wagon!

[VP Baltar]

why are we splitting up this perfectly good mala wagon

Post or die. Those are the rules.

[VP Baltar]

why are we splitting up this perfectly good mala wagon

Post or die. Those are the rules.

I agree. Did mala post anything useful?

I know Titus is capable of posting useful stuff. That's the difference. Also, we have enough people alive to run them both up. If I can't get Titus wagon support, I'll come back to u bb.

[VP Baltar]

I'm hesitant to lim Titus at this point because I don't think her inactivity is alignment indicative, Titus is perfectly capable of playing/keeping up as scum so probably just genuine IRL busy-ness there

Yes, Titus is capable of posting as either alignment. Thing is, if she is town, I want to town read her and work with her to solve the game. She's one of the folks I have played with most in this game, along with andres. It's slightly distressing to me that each of them are sidelining in their own way and have been on what I consider a bad wagon, both for ???? reasons.

Mala is a fine lim, not going to argue with you on that. We can make more use of the day than that lim alone though. Like I said earlier, I think we have maybe not been playing the day game very much so far and are focusing on the shiney night game.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Titus

did someone say lim titus?

Yaya.

How's the puppers btw?

[VP Baltar]

Poor doggo! Glad she is doing better

[VP Baltar]

He cut day short when I was catching up to prevent me from obvtowning.

Would you have not limmed frogster yesterday? Are you caught up now?

[VP Baltar]

Just kill Titus after I flip please. They’re trying to argue against my slot because there’s probably enough support there somewhere if you squint hard enough not to potentially execute MalaKittens I presume.

Are you saying Titus is chainsaws for kittens? I think she was after you before the kittens wagon, iirc

[VP Baltar]

*Titus is chainsawing

[VP Baltar]

@people who have played with andres before is this normal

Not in my experience. This is what I was saying about his incredulity and over reacting to being sussed. Not what I usually see from town andres.

He can get a bit gruff, sure, but this is like overreaction territory.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: mala

That's about all I needed to see

[VP Baltar]

Claim mala

[VP Baltar]

I had insomnia, what's up?

And you get so much fun

[VP Baltar]

Fake. You'd be claiming results if you were town

^

[VP Baltar]

it's like, too many are in the "not doing much" pool that it doesn't make sense to look at those doing stuff tbh

Thus is absolutely the problem. We will see what this flip is before who we decide should be listened to and who shouldn't.

[VP Baltar]

Also we kill in (VPB, dwlee, strange) today, no debate

Yep. I'm thinking strange.

Also i have guilty.

And yet....

[VP Baltar]

Sorry but J know for a fact I gave the right information, and one of you two gave the wrong information.

I confirmed mine with the mod, so....

[VP Baltar]

Well again, it likely has to be one of you two who did give the wrong info.

You confirmed you had the right answer? (Although I will say the mod was less than direct in my confirmation, only saying it was right based on the description given)

[VP Baltar]

Kay, so nobody said outright they were going to kill Andre? Dwlee submitted twice.
Who submitted in what order.
What was the ratio of player’s posts in the chat?

Order of submission was dwlee, strange, me in fairly rapid succession, then shortly later dwlee clarified (wouldn't call it resubmit) the Order their buttons should be pressed.

I probably talked the most, strange talked the least.

[VP Baltar]

No shit you talked the most lol.

I have a big mouth OKAY

[VP Baltar]

Can confirm I talked the least in the private thread.

Why were you so confident andres was town? You seemed to arrive at that conclusion almost immediately

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Dwlee

Another thing to note is they said if the bomb explodes, they believe I was scum inside a reads list they posted.

What do you mean I was confident andres was town? I said that I believed based on interaction it wasn't SVS, meaning it couldn't be 3 scum defuses if we defused last night, most likely 2 (if VP is scum), 1 (if Andres is scum), or 0 (if neither are scum). Just from the way you were arguing with him did not at all seem like two scum together.

Your first post in the thread is saying we should solve the bomb. That reads as thinking andres is town to me. Am I wrong to assume that?

[VP Baltar]

As much as I would believe that, I literally explained in PT, why I thought that it wasn’t believing they were town, rather based on mechanics and an interaction that I noted.

I am not seeing any mechanics discussion from you in the PT. Which post number are you referring to?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: strangematter

Reread the full night PT. I also just have a hard time thinking dwlee busses there yesterday.

HEAL: cephrir
HEAL: cat scratch fever
HEAL: guilty lion

[VP Baltar]

Why doesnt dwlee bus there, vp?

Seemed unnecessary. Scum!dwlee wasn't really under much suspicion there, and they could have potentially pushed me or other mislims yesterday.

I mean, it's probably fair to say it could have been a throwaway vote that got out of hand when you and I jumped on it, but still seems like a scum in that situation wouldn't have massive incentive to start a bus.

[VP Baltar]

Okay on topic of the greeting kill: I just remembered that I think a hood greeting was in everyone claimed?

Yeah, they all claimed because frogster told them too!

[VP Baltar]

Why did each person in the hood decide to save Andres?

I pressed andres reasonably hard about things in his play I found scummy and told him straight up that I went back and forth on whether I thought he should live. His responses were fairly AtE, but I could see them from a town perspective potentially and was leaning that way after the questions.

I also did some math on each of the scum win cons and how close they were to either, and decided that even if he was scum seeking their first defusal, it is about even for scum seeking either wincon at that point in terms of amount of days they have to play. So, I figured we get more info if we let him live than if we agreed to kill him.

[VP Baltar]

How was his play in the PT any different from here in the game thread

I wouldn't say he was like OBVTOWN, which was the impression andante and greeting gave.

I think it was just much easier to have a conversation and get him to explain his perspective than in a thread where he was perpetually like 40 pages behind. He seemed kind of exasperated with this game and said at one point he thought maybe we should just blow him up. I am probably slightly susceptible to that AtE right now since I just finished a game where town kept railroading me over stuff I thought was inane. So yeah, I'd say it was more of a town lean for me when I could go proper one on one with him.

[VP Baltar]

I didn't ask until this day phase if mine was correct lol

Why not?

[VP Baltar]

Not sure if we should be voting outside the pool of 3 defusers though today

Only reason would be if we thought someone goofed in their response or if andres somehow messed up describing the bomb (which most likely isn't the case.) My module was pretty easy, but let me read andres' description and see if the other two looked more complicated.

My bombs each had two pretty simple modules and then one or two more complex ones to describe.

[VP Baltar]

VP you were a defuser, is the description of the bomb just something you get in that big paragraph or do you get a picture you need to manually sit down and write a description of?

You just get pictures and have to write it out. On my first bomb, I messed up describing one of the pictures, but someone (I think CSF) corrected me.

The only text on my bombs were the serial number and it told me if it had batteries or not.

[VP Baltar]

Can VP or Strange cross-reference my lists to confirm that the labels I assigned to the buttons are not me swapping out which buttons get pressed

I can do this. I did look initially at a glance when you posted the update and it seemed the same to me, so I didn't go back and double check you with what andres posted.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, it was a minor thing that was luckily pretty easy to tell, but I didn't even notice that one detail in the pretty long post I had to write.

[VP Baltar]

Gotcha okay. Only thing I could really see Andres messing up (for mine at least) was the thing had rows and columns. And maybe if he thought columns go horizontal that would be a problem but I do not think this is the case.

He seemed meticulous in describing their placement.

The only one that looks hard to understand is the one he talked about as a rolling pin with one handle and you described as a pressurized gas in your first post. If the mod told you it's right, then I guess it is. I just have a hard time visualizing whatever andres is describing (though his description of mine was also weirdly more complicated than the traffic light and turn signals it was).

[VP Baltar]

There is no way Andres described his bomb wrong, with the defusing stuff he double checked about his solution being right, no way he messed up saying what the bomb was, this is a terrible conversation

Fwiw, I never checked my bomb description with the mod. I didn't even realize getting that part wrong was a possibility until I checked my expert answer and was told it was accurate with what was described, rather than a simple 'that is correct'

[VP Baltar]

Oh like a gas canister. Got it.

So yeah, unless he completely transposed an item placement, which seems unlikely, it doesn't seem like he messed up.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
Don't want day to end

Does anyone think it'd be weird for strange to choose to blow up the bomb when she knows she is extremely likely to be the one accused for and limmed for it?

I've been thinking about this and if you're duping me. Ultimately, I figured 1) scum!strange probably had to take an opportunity to kill a doc given we haven't seen any NKs yet. 2) maybe she thought your switch was going to come across scummier than it actually was.

Idk, I'm kind of trusting my instincts here that you just look more town and I was kind of suss on strange early game, but people talked me out of it.

[VP Baltar]

We aren't yeeting outside last night's bomb squad.

33 > 20

[VP Baltar]

Vote me if you want. I don't see how you as town can both say 1) you believe andres gave accurate info and therefore scum killed him last night, and 2) we should lim outside that pool where we have lower odds.

Also, why do you not want to be an expert?

[VP Baltar]

also judging by VP's reaction to me not wanting expert, VP missed my claim which is why I'm not dead yet tbh

What in the tinfoil is this supposed to mean?

As dwlee mentioned, literally nobody missed that you all apparently claimed PRs.

[VP Baltar]

PRs this game playing at elite levels

[VP Baltar]

I can answer any question in this game.

Are you mafia???

[VP Baltar]

VP and Dwlee got real quiet here....

I am at work now.


If I'm reading between the lines of what you're saying correctly, you don't actually have a clear on strange, but have corroborating evidence she didn't kill greeting.

[VP Baltar]

I was in class and getting lunch with a friend: it's cool that Strange did not kill Greeting but that is not a clear. Do you know that Mistyx did kill someone?

Do you tr Mistyx?

No she is my preferred lim immediately after we sort the hood

This is where I'm at.

No offense to andante, but she was part of the frogster debacle and it is very clear she doesn't have hard guilties or innos here. (Feel free to correct me if im wrong)

We have a much harder guilty in a group three....so better odds and better info. We sort that, then we lim mistyx, who indeed looks terrible here.

This isn't fucking rocket science.

[VP Baltar]

Thank you for proving my point.

[VP Baltar]

what's your point?

Your reads are bad this game and you should let people who have caught mafia so far run the show.

You're trying to bullshit through something today on questionable info, and it is silly to try and distract from a wagon that is more likely to hit scum.

You can spam post and caps lock to your heart's content, but the facts are on my side here.

[VP Baltar]

what's your point?

Your reads are bad this game and you should let people who have caught mafia so far run the show.

You're trying to bullshit through something today on questionable info, and it is silly to try and distract from a wagon that is more likely to hit scum.

You can spam post and caps lock to your heart's content, but the facts are on my side here.

Nobody caught malakittens this game.

Mala was on my list from pretty early based on koba. Dwlee started the wagon. Ceph and I turned it into a speed wagon.

So, you're incorrect...

[VP Baltar]

If andante has a guilty on Misty we should probably go there instead of coin flipping.

Yeah, no shit. She doesn't though it seems like.

If she does have a hard guilty, then I don't understand why she is not claiming it.

[VP Baltar]

They just said Mistyx is literally scum. If they’re literally scum than they have a guilty or they’re choosing their words poorly.

Lol and then she voted me because of tinfoil on the night kills. It's not a hard guilty

[VP Baltar]

That's it

That's the tweet

[VP Baltar]

god fucking dmamit

Quoting for posterity

[VP Baltar]

Back to sleep with you

[VP Baltar]

What is Baltar doing here btw, rather, which one does he think is scum?

Probably where my vote is idk.

[VP Baltar]

I think I'm confused. ahhhhh can we just repeat the mala wagon with another scum?

Trying to over here but you're busy egoing a counter wagon. I promise you I will sheep you onto mistyx tomorrow after we flip this scum.

[VP Baltar]

I also want to note that VP was in fact the last person to submit info in the hood, which is mildly suspicious. I was pretty in the air, and I wonder if VP was hoping I would just choose to blow up Andres myself, but then I chose to solve the bomb, and then VP posted but didn't post his solve, and then Strange posted her solve, and then VP posted his.

Bruh bruhhhhhh


Actually, I kind of like where Ceph's head is at with Titus. If we aren't going to get day play, let's make her do something at night.

HEAL: titus

[VP Baltar]

For the record this is wrong both theoretically (confirmation bias) and empirically (it’s very rare for anyone to have perfect reads, so what’s more likely to happen is that you end up limming a few scum and then a bunch of town that person with overall good reads thought seemed scummy).

Nobody in this game bar maybe pooky has reads that are accurate enough to let follow-the-leader be maybe game winning.

For sure. I'm not saying you follow anyone to end game. Just saying, we hit scum yesterday, why are we ego fighting over the play today? We have good reason to lim in the expert pool and dwlee/me have had some correct reads this game. You let the dice roll on that.

[VP Baltar]

a cowboy avatar has is very much a derail of more fun topics like who the scum are and why they're scum.

I shall now change the topic to why you don't know who Hunter Thompson is

[VP Baltar]

Mena, put Titus in. She promised CONTENT if elected.

[VP Baltar]

Is csf non eligible either?

[VP Baltar]

My perspective is Titus made a promise, so now she needs to deliver. Doesn't feel like setting her up for anything if she is saying she will do this because I do not understand her game so far. I will say I just finished a game with her though where she was scum and she put ALOT of effort into that

[VP Baltar]

This mistyx iso is terrible lol

[VP Baltar]

Like is it possible 2 scum are just open tanking?

[VP Baltar]

Can you sort pooky or enchant better?

[VP Baltar]

I'm also good with none of those players being in there.

What's your ideal hood?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: vp baltar

gonna think on this one for a bit

think scum would probably be jumping on this slot if it were town and that hasnt really happened so i wanna push it

Also mist did bring up a point… if VP was town, surely maf would put pressure there, cause like no one has been pushing there
VOTE: VP [/VP]

Starting to think we just don't even let andante be an expert at all.

[VP Baltar]

lol why do you say I shouldn’t be an expert?

I have no idea what is going through your brain!

Scum have been clearly trying to set me up multiple nights now, so it seems obvious why they aren't pushing me when either: I get forced into defuser again and they blow me up, or town gets the heebie jeebies and lims me for them.

And then your top scum read comes in right after I call their iso trash and votes me, and your response is 'oh yeah, good point!'

I don't know if I should trust you with a toaster oven let alone an explosive device.

[VP Baltar]

To be clear: not even a hint of irony there

It’s been honestly awful, and once I get home I’m going to be wrapping myself in a blanket and trying to forget

Damn, sorry. That sucks.

[VP Baltar]

Can I get heal votes btw ty

HEAL: Dwlee

Dwlee is not eligible this cycle

[VP Baltar]

Oh, Baltar, you too — dwlee read?

Pretty hard town. If strange doesn't flip scum, I'll be shocked.

I think dwlee's pressure on mala over me would be weird coming from scum.

[VP Baltar]

Can I get heal votes btw ty

HEAL: Dwlee

Dwlee is not eligible this cycle

And I realized there are like 4 pages just posted I have not caught up with because I had 40 mins of work to do. Lol.

I'll catch up here in a bit when I have a free moment. If someone asked me something urgent, please reflag

[VP Baltar]

I think dwlee's pressure on mala over me would be weird coming from scum

You don’t think they’d bus?

It's not impossible, just seems like an unnecessary move if you're scum in that position. Granted, scum often overcompensate for pressure, but I don't think many people were seriously honing in on mala at that point. At least, that was my read. As I said earlier, there is a possibility dwlee was going for a safe "bus" vote to camp on and it got away from them with the speed wagon, but I don't get that vibe at all.

[VP Baltar]

oh I hope strange flips town

Lol what

[VP Baltar]

I haven't read anything but I have thoughts after doing some rereading last night. I have a few more holiday weekend things I need to do today, then I'll catch up this afternoon.

[VP Baltar]

ok i've seen enough

VOTE: VP Baltar

Not sure what has changed from me not being caught up before and not being caught up now.

[VP Baltar]

The big takeaway from my overnight reread is I think there is some fuckery going on. Dwlee should make sense as scum based on the bomb, but I read their ISO multiple times and I am struggling to see a lot of scum motivation or even buddies with mala. So like, wtf is going on?

I also find it very weird that there was somehow no fuckery last night, but all the nights I'm involved, unexplained shit is happening. Just feels like there is some piece missing here, and then when I flip town, there isn't going to be an explanation for it.

Maybe the folks last night have a good explanation for how it went down. We'll see when I read

[VP Baltar]

Are you positing that Andres could have fucked up the bomb description?

Idk maybe. But I just got thinking that we know scum can mess with the defuser. So like, can they mess with the experts too or something? Switch expert info after submission? Idk, something about this just feels too easy and I don't see scum motive in your play.

So if I get flipped today, then what? They flip you tomorrow? If my read of your day play is right, that's three mislims with almost no resistance.

Scum don't seem interested in NKing or possibly andres blocked some, so chaining mislims could be a strategy.

[VP Baltar]

I'm pretty sure if scum could directly fuck with expert info like that the game would be bastard.

Could be limited. I just don't understand what is going on with the NKs.

Only reason for scum to let me live through both defusals seemed like either A) I successfully scared them or B) they were trying to gain NKs.

And if yes on NKs, then why no kill last night? Something isn't adding up here.

If you believe I'm scum, the NKs make even less sense.

Anyhow, I need to read up later, but I kind of want to lim mistyx here over dwlee.

[VP Baltar]

Why do the kills not make sense from you!scum world? Greeting scumread you.

If I was scum, wouldn't scum have like 3 or 4 NKs? Why has there only been one kill? That's what I mean.

If I was scum, I'd have hella defusals and be gunning down town. Why prolong the game?

[VP Baltar]

I think Bell kill was blocked night 2. So you'd have 1 kill or 2 if GL is scum. That's not that many.

Bell doesn't seem like a likely kill to me given there were so many PRs alive and known.

[VP Baltar]

Just for kicks, I visited or attempted to visit VP last night.

I'm going to be busy today. Bare with me.

What's your role?

[VP Baltar]

Just for kicks, I visited or attempted to visit VP last night.

I'm going to be busy today. Bare with me.

What's your role?

Datisi's fisheries are currently undergoing reservations due to required inspections. If you have anything to say to accelerate the process, we're all ears.

I'm saying if you have an inno on me, save us the process please.

[VP Baltar]

This page is special.

VOTE: mistyx

[VP Baltar]

Dwlee...do you think enchant should have logical consistency here?

[VP Baltar]

VP did you read my wall post. What did you think about it

I haven't read up. I am finishing grocery shopping and then I have a few more chores to do today, and then I plan to read this game. I know the delay is probably annoying. Just been a busy weekend for me

[VP Baltar]

BUT VP WTF STOP

Stop what?

[VP Baltar]

Vp’s response to this is silly, for the simple reason that given the amount of time they had, the whole thing should click for them that dwlee is scum unless their scumdar is entirely broken. Dwlee has enough posts to click.
I am weirded out that delete softened their response too.

No, look. Dwlee being scum is a very straight forward answer. I fully admit that maybe I'm tinfoiling here, but I just have a bad feeling that things are too simple in that world.

I know I've been fucked with more than once. So what's the intention behind that? I don't think it is simply to get my lim. I'm not that good of a player. So what's going on? Scum may be trying to win by mislims rather than even worrying about their second win con at this point.

That being said, I may read today and just realize I'm being dumb here, but going into the strange lim it didn't make a lot of sense for dwlee to be scum ... like at all. So should I suddenly ignore their day play? I'm not so certain.

You can call me scummy for it. I fully suspect I get limmed today regardless. But I need to work this path out fully so if I'm right it's not ignored when I flip town.

[VP Baltar]

1.) VP was weird in the hood in the way he went about choosing to solve, mainly that VP waited until both Strange and I had posted our solutions to post his, despite being confirmed to be around after I had posted my solve and before Strange had because he posted in the expert thread but didn't post his solution.

Dwlee, I read your giant wall, and 80% of it is about how Mena is my buddy rather than how I'm actually scum. The quoted is the only point you make that is even remotely reasonable, and it's pretty silly when you look at the facts it all happened in like an hour's time at like 7am my time. I had barely got out of bed. The "posted in thread" Dwlee is referring to is I said happy birthday to andres. I then made some breakfast, double checked my solve with the mod and then posted it. There's nothing remotely scummy there and it wasn't some giant delay, but rather a small amount of time.

It's also highly ridiculous to say I was acting weird in the PT or whatever when I was the person leading almost all of the discussion. If I was so worried about letting you and strange take the lead, I wouldn't have been talking so much.

[VP Baltar]

titus is extremely unlikely to be scum she towned it up p hard in that pt

how so?

[VP Baltar]

That Dwlee post is highly ridiculous. Would they put that much effort into a fake scum read though is the question....

[VP Baltar]

Also I kind of like dwlee's wallpost.

that's a huge yikes