KTaNE [game over!]

[Dwlee99]

Pooky when did you become convinced I was scum? This is so fake

[Dwlee99]

You don't know me pooky

[Dwlee99]

I'm opentowning

[Dwlee99]

Mala is still flipping scum though

[Dwlee99]

Okay pooky make yourself defuser and then we'll see if anyone cares

[Dwlee99]

I feel like Strange was so immediate about wanting to solve the bomb because she knew she was going to blow it up anyway

[Dwlee99]

Also my info was confirmed submitted correctly and I had the most complicated one

[Dwlee99]

Why were dwlee and strange experted?

Did you notice Mala flipped scum btw? Or?

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Strange

[Dwlee99]

I think if I was scum here and wanted to kill Andres I would have just... done that. And not even submitted info. I already had stated reason enough in the bomb squad anyway to not solve the bomb (I felt like if we solved it then we would have to lim VPB and I didn't want to do that). Strange had literally no progression during the night phase. I was actually a little skeeved out by how when I chose to give info both strange and vpb pretty much immediately followed

[Dwlee99]

As much as I would believe that, I literally explained in PT, why I thought that it wasn’t believing they were town, rather based on mechanics and an interaction that I noted.

Your thing was just you didn't think Andres/vpb was SvS but that's not exactly a hard to fabricate reason as scum

[Dwlee99]

Doesn't help that Dwlee gave two sets of information, and the second time they were clarifying things up.

Why does that even matter

[Dwlee99]

Cause it just reads to me like scum shade on something that is completely irrelevant

[Dwlee99]

Also strange has more posts today than in the hood

[Dwlee99]

Do you seriously believe I would fabricate that as scum? And seriously, look at their interaction and tell me, yeah that is just a fabricated thought as scum.

You know why it matters because it could mean you gave the wrong info?

Well it's one of you and VPB? I thought that they weren't SvT reading that interaction, but it wasn't my only reasoning cause I actually townread Andres there which is more important than specifically knowing if Andres/VPB are SvS or not

And all I did was clarify which buttons were the 3 buttons he had to press because I realized that the manual said the name but the bomb didn't, it just had pictures. So I had to go through and match picture to the description. You can look and check out that the pictures I pick make sense with the labels I initially submitted, so I didn't change the intent behind my submission (ie, I would have had to choose to explode with my first post, not my last) which is all that matters.

[Dwlee99]

Yes I am setting up an elimination on you right now why is that scummy?

[Dwlee99]

So the fact that I'm casing you is scum-indicative? Is that what you're arguing?

[Dwlee99]

Yes I can case people as scum are you really suggesting I don't also do it as town? Why wasn't me casing mala me setting her up for an elimination yesterday then?

[Dwlee99]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13270224

If you read this ELO you'll see this is just called how I argue and your argument might as well be that because I breathe as scum that I am scum here for breathing

[Dwlee99]

I think if I was scum here and wanted to kill Andres I would have just... done that. And not even submitted info. I already had stated reason enough in the bomb squad anyway to not solve the bomb (I felt like if we solved it then we would have to lim VPB and I didn't want to do that). Strange had literally no progression during the night phase. I was actually a little skeeved out by how when I chose to give info both strange and vpb pretty much immediately followed

Yes, I'm sure we would have been very understanding when Andre's flipped doc and wouldn't have blamed you at all.

People in the hood weren't exactly appalled by me saying I might not solve. And VPB suggested not solving too.

[Dwlee99]

There's part of my brain that is paranoid of VPB for sure but you're not exactly being townie so why do you expect me to think that it's him

[Dwlee99]

The only thing that could be interpreted as "intentional setup" would maybe be me saying I think you're the most likely person to explode the bomb in the squad. But you haven't explained why I wouldn't also just think you're more likely scum than VPB as town.

Like I guess I keep tiptoeing around actually calling out what's wrong with your argument so to be explicit: you can't just argue I've done something as scum, you have to argue why you don't think I'd do something as town. Or why it's more likely I do something as scum than town.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: vp baltar

this time's a hit

vp has fear in his heart

ok actually u are now banned from answering any question that isnt game advancing for 24 hours VP, this is ur new post restriction. if you do not abide by it you get a strike, 3 strikes and the bomb explodes.

i mean the way frogster was like "ayo vp sus" makes them never scum together unless vp flips scum AND frogster has major TMI issues as scum.

so if you have vp as scum it makes sense for frogster to be binned town ay?

at the very least the confidence alone makes me want to leave frogster alone for the day

andante town
Lukewarm scum
vp still scum
Frogster town
Cephrir scum

just need one more, maybe bell randed scum again lul

Don't feel like koba was bussing vp here? Probably not at least?

[Dwlee99]

I'd like to be an expert tonight. I feel that's the only way I'll be able to catch up. I don't get the dichotomy but I feel I will with the opportunity to post with the guaranteed ability to not be interrupted.

You're not going to be saying anything about your andre misread?

What did he do that was antitown? Also, simple doctor and bodyguard can go together cause no heal loop

Not really. Andre was antitown, just like Frogster. He needs to learn not to do that shit as town. Between that and the implausible role claim, I have no regrets.

[Dwlee99]

EBWOP

I'd like to be an expert tonight. I feel that's the only way I'll be able to catch up. I don't get the dichotomy but I feel I will with the opportunity to post with the guaranteed ability to not be interrupted.

You're not going to be saying anything about your andre misread?

Not really. Andre was antitown, just like Frogster. He needs to learn not to do that shit as town. Between that and the implausible role claim, I have no regrets.

What did he do that was antitown? Also, simple doctor and bodyguard can go together cause no heal loop

[Dwlee99]

Uh, the idea that Mala wasn't bussed hard is foreign to me.
They had nothing to defend. Scum would be uncomfortable doing anything other than voting them for risk of being called out themselves. That was a wagon that is simply impossible to derail. So all you'd get by trying to save them is suspicion.

Is this in response to someone?

[Dwlee99]

VP Baltar [9]: PookyTheMagicalBear, GuiltyLion, Enchant, Cephrir, Cat Scratch Fever, Mistyx, Andresvmb, Andante, Malakittens
Dwlee99 [7]: GuiltyLion, Enchant, VP Baltar, Cephrir, Cat Scratch Fever, Mistyx, Malakittens
StrangeMatter [6]: Enchant, Cephrir, VP Baltar, GuiltyLion, Andresvmb, Malakittens

It's ironic to me that andres voted for expert his murderer

[Dwlee99]

Someone said SM was being TMI with the accusation that scum must be bussing, GL said it I think.

I think it depends on how many scum you think is on the wagon. At least one is kinda just probabilistically true but I don't think it's super useful as a poe tool (and sometimes there are no scum on a wagon but making this judgement call comes down to a gamestate read)

[Dwlee99]

I think that's a good catch from GL so I'm thinking Strange/Mistyx and then there's just one more to catch

[Dwlee99]

On the topic of if I would bus mala: if I thought I had to go deep, yea I'd be bussing mala eventually probably. But if my plan is to go deep I also wouldn't set myself up to be unable to endgame by exploding andres.

[Dwlee99]

HEAL: Andante
HEAL: Cephrir

[Dwlee99]

@Dwlee - CSF first pointed it out in 3243 and 3248, so she deserves the credit more than me, but I totally agree with it

HEAL: CSF

[Dwlee99]

EBWOP

I'd like to be an expert tonight. I feel that's the only way I'll be able to catch up. I don't get the dichotomy but I feel I will with the opportunity to post with the guaranteed ability to not be interrupted.

You're not going to be saying anything about your andre misread?

Not really. Andre was antitown, just like Frogster. He needs to learn not to do that shit as town. Between that and the implausible role claim, I have no regrets.

What did he do that was antitown? Also, simple doctor and bodyguard can go together cause no heal loop

It can make three players unkillable each night and scum get limited nightkills.

He shut off my catching up.

Speaking of that, menalque hammered Fire as soon as they claimed right? That's probably scum

[Dwlee99]

I have a protective role

You need to be VERY gullible to believe andres fake claim, is all I've got to say

won't maf just kill a doc claim? and if not, andres the bomb expert could save the defuser to prove it's real? yes??

Andres not a fucking doc andante just kill him tomorrow and don't listen to whatever wifom BS excuse he makes

VOTE: fire

YEET

VOTE: fire

Should this not just be a scum claim

[Dwlee99]

if you want my actual insight

bell town
confused about why everyone kept mentioning waiting for titus input earlier then entirely ignored her andres push? probably slightly scum indicative for andres
gth i would say the vote dump on mala includes a bus

Yea and this is so bad reading it in context again

[Dwlee99]

HURT: Andante, Cephir, CSF

Enchant do you think I'm scum or

[Dwlee99]

If we can power through Strange/Mistyx/Menlaque that would be epic

[Dwlee99]

Yea fair enough Titus. By end of today I want you at least stating reads on me/vpb/strange and for you to take a stand on who is scum in the group. Not like we can lim multiple people at once anyway

[Dwlee99]

HURT: Andante, Cephir, CSF

Enchant do you think I'm scum or

Yes

Then why aren't you voting me?

[Dwlee99]

If menalque is just town that instahammered fire thennnn fos on enchant

[Dwlee99]

???

[Dwlee99]

There are 3 scum

One is Strange/VP

I feel decently confident based on what has been posted about the subject by CSF + GL that Mistyx is scum.

Menalque is my third suspect based on the hammer day one, but if he is town I need a new third suspect. I think you're acting weird around me right now and your scumread on me seems fake

[Dwlee99]

I appreciate Dwlee trying now that there is actual pressure on them.

I've been trying wdym

I mean okay I wasn't hyperposting but that was also a symptom of just being busy and not solely disinterest. I really should be doing other stuff that isn't mafia right now like my pset due tonight or the test corrections due tomorrow or the 5 page essay due Wednesday okay I'm stressed now

[Dwlee99]

Everybody forgot the 3rd possibility.
Dwlee and SM are both scum. Gotcha

What are your actual thoughts

[Dwlee99]

Though, still not confident on Pooky. They automatically assumed scum tried to kill them N1, but they should have been aware enough of the set up to know that it wasn't necessarily the case that mafia submitted a kill.
Did we ever find out if mafia even could submit a kill N1, assuming given what we know about Catboi.

My set up understanding is garbage.

What about catboi would mean they couldn't submit?

So to summarize, the hood agreed to save Andres and everyone gave bomb defusal instructions, so at least one clearly lied, is that right?

yep, and we all confirmed our instructions were correct with Datisi

[Dwlee99]

They start with one night kill they could have used N1

[Dwlee99]

Okay on topic of the greeting kill: I just remembered that I think a hood greeting was in everyone claimed?

[Dwlee99]

final bomb squads:

Andante, Greeting, Andresvmb, Frogsterking - group 1 bomb experts
catboi - group 1 bomb defuser

Menalque, PookyTheMagicalBear, Cat Scratch Fever, Cephrir - group 2 bomb experts
VP Baltar - group 2 bomb defuser

the information for the defusers and experts will be going out shortly. night 1 starts now, and ends in

(expired on 2022-03-31 21:15:00)

.

Low-key points to andante killing greeting cause other 3 are flipped town
HURT: Andante
I need to review more stuff to double check if greeting claimed PR in thread as well etc. etc.

[Dwlee99]

Actually I want to stuff andante paranoia for now cause I think she can only really be scum with pooky
HEAL: Andante

[Dwlee99]

Why did each person in the hood decide to save Andres?

Strange: VP/Andres interactions weren't SvS
VP: I think he started town reading Andres
Me: same as VP w/ added consideration I didn't want VP autolimmed today if we solved the bomb

[Dwlee99]

Pretty much. I know for a fact I didn’t lie but no I’m scum and people just believe I would intentionally blow up Andres.

This is such a funny post

[Dwlee99]

It's typical Dwlee!Mafia.

Don't bother.

Based on what

[Dwlee99]

Enchant is about to do the same thing as strange with the "well you breathe as scum so"

[Dwlee99]

Enchant is about to do the same thing as strange with the "well you breathe as scum so"

your posts being mad about this don't rly do you any favors tho

Well unless both of strange and enchant are scum it is annoying to be called scum for literally just my playstyle by townies

[Dwlee99]

mechanically it would make a ton of sense for scum vpb to blow up here just sayin

So we don't feel compelled to flip him?

yeah

This and the strange ATE is making me worried VPB is pulling a deep wolf on us yea

[Dwlee99]

I think you mean the opposite of what you're saying,

I.e, Dwlee first decided to spare before getting yelled at in the scum PT and changing their answer.

Either is kinda tinfoily anyways, but I still meant that.

Still I'm thinking and it has to be at least one of us, and I know it wasn't me who gave the wrong information.

I already addressed why strange could verify I didn't do that. Or at least verify to a high degree of certainty. For example, if my first label was "elephant" and then the description of the button I tell Andres to push is "animal with a trunk" then clearly my answer didn't change between my first submit and second submit

[Dwlee99]

Pretty much. I know for a fact I didn’t lie but no I’m scum and people just believe I would intentionally blow up Andres.

This is such a funny post

I wish I were funny but no. I don't care anymore if I die in this game, I'm just saying what I think so screw off.

Also my reason for thinking you're just scum setup is partially that gut feeling I get from reading half of your posts and read on me (It's a muted feel about your reads). It's also scumplay I have seen you done before, and from what you've pointed out in another game, I know for a fact, that you know I'm easy to eliminate (but in that game you didn't).

Explaining the Andres not SVS comes down to a simple idea. They were arguing a lot in the PT, I assumed they weren't SVS (They weren't), and I believed that there isn't 3 scum defuses (close to the wincon scum could go for but I don't know if they are) off of this. So it came down to if we defused this bomb, the defuses would be either 2, 1, or 0 scum defuses (I really don't want scum anywhere near that wincon at all), meaning it would likely be safe to defuse it that night.

Getting really tired of repeating myself there.

It was funny cause of the "people believe I would blow up Andres" like we are accusing you of real life murder idk it's just humorous

I think if you're town you're literally just pattern matching "dwlee playstyle" to seeing me as scum and thinking it's the same when I'm just... pretty good at imitating my town meta

[Dwlee99]

Enchant is about to do the same thing as strange with the "well you breathe as scum so"

your posts being mad about this don't rly do you any favors tho

Well unless both of strange and enchant are scum it is annoying to be called scum for literally just my playstyle by townies

Ya I might be projecting but I get super annoyed by that when I'm scum c:

I do too but I also do when I'm town :^)

[Dwlee99]

andante was really happy to vote like, literally anyone other than mala after getting sorta cornered into voting her for a minute

This thing happened with Andante!town and Nero!scum in the last game I played with Andante sooo idk if it means she is scum

[Dwlee99]

I didn't ask until this day phase if mine was correct lol

[Dwlee99]

I didn't ask until this day phase if mine was correct lol

Was it?

Yes

If you didn’t believe there was a difference and you didn’t ask datasi why did you make a second submission?

I did believe there would be a difference? Cause the descriptions Andres gave were of the pictures, I gave labels, and then I was like oh maybe I should say which buttons cause it's unclear based solely on label, and then said unambiguously which buttons to press

I didn't ask until this day phase if mine was correct lol

Why not?

I was pretty sure I did it right and Datisi's a busy man. When it blew up I had a slight worry it was my fault but then it wasn't so

[Dwlee99]

Not sure if we should be voting outside the pool of 3 defusers though today

Only reason would be if we thought someone goofed in their response or if andres somehow messed up describing the bomb (which most likely isn't the case.) My module was pretty easy, but let me read andres' description and see if the other two looked more complicated.

My bombs each had two pretty simple modules and then one or two more complex ones to describe.

Mine was the most complicated cause I had to describe 3 buttons to press but no one could have goofed in their response if Datisi has told all of us we did it correctly

[Dwlee99]

VP you were a defuser, is the description of the bomb just something you get in that big paragraph or do you get a picture you need to manually sit down and write a description of?

[Dwlee99]

I think VP is saying Andres could have written down something about the bomb incorrectly. ex, the color of a component, or the serial code, etc.

[Dwlee99]

Can VP or Strange cross-reference my lists to confirm that the labels I assigned to the buttons are not me swapping out which buttons get pressed

[Dwlee99]

VP you were a defuser, is the description of the bomb just something you get in that big paragraph or do you get a picture you need to manually sit down and write a description of?

You just get pictures and have to write it out. On my first bomb, I messed up describing one of the pictures, but someone (I think CSF) corrected me.

The only text on my bombs were the serial number and it told me if it had batteries or not.

How did CSF know that your description was wrong?

[Dwlee99]

This actually adds a whole new layer to this bomb thing wow. This is cool

[Dwlee99]

Gotcha okay. Only thing I could really see Andres messing up (for mine at least) was the thing had rows and columns. And maybe if he thought columns go horizontal that would be a problem but I do not think this is the case.

[Dwlee99]

I mean it did take him 30 minutes to describe it but yea I agree I don't think he messed up describing it

Who do you think is scum, Andante?

[Dwlee99]

Gotcha okay. Only thing I could really see Andres messing up (for mine at least) was the thing had rows and columns. And maybe if he thought columns go horizontal that would be a problem but I do not think this is the case.

He seemed meticulous in describing their placement.

The only one that looks hard to understand is the one he talked about as a rolling pin with one handle and you described as a pressurized gas in your first post. If the mod told you it's right, then I guess it is. I just have a hard time visualizing whatever andres is describing (though his description of mine was also weirdly more complicated than the traffic light and turn signals it was).

That was a funny description but I knew what he meant because it was so distinct

Fwiw if you look up pressurized gas you'll probably be able to understand why he described it that way

[Dwlee99]

dwlee can you walk me through why you told scum to make me defuser so you could blow me up?

also did you think the group you were in was all town prior to today?

Cause I wanted to blow you up but then I was also thinking okay if they do it I can sort you in the hood anyway to see if I actually wanna blow you up and if they don't do it then shrug

I’ve just kinda lost a lot of motivation since the Frog thing :/ I’m kinda here and reading though

I know that was frustrating but we got a scum flip since then and have a ton of info so I'd like to see you give some opinions

[Dwlee99]

Okay so re: me resubmitting and why I think any paranoia that I changed my answers just doesn't make sense

So the labels I initially said were to press 3 buttons in order: Toxic, then Gas Under Pressure, then Oxidising.

The buttons I then clarified that Andres should press had the following (paraphrased) description:

Button 1: Skull and crossbones

Button 2: A paddle with a handle on the right

Button 3: ball with a fire above it and line below it

If one has seen those hazard labels you'll recognize these:

Spoiler: COSHH labels

Now if you look at the labels and descriptions they match up.

I feel like if Strange was genuinely paranoid about me changing my answers she would have cross referenced the buttons and the labels herself or have said something to the effect of "when I have time I'm going to look at these" but she didn't.

[Dwlee99]

UNVOTE:
Don't want day to end

Does anyone think it'd be weird for strange to choose to blow up the bomb when she knows she is extremely likely to be the one accused for and limmed for it?

[Dwlee99]

Menalque: why were you voting VPB yesterday? Why are you townreading him now? Why do you scumread me and strange more than him?

[Dwlee99]

we shouldn't lim VPB because scum are going to try to blow him up anyway(if they don't try to blow him up thats basically a scumclaim)

no point doing their dirty work for them make him eat a bullet for someone else.

Pooky any update on this thought?

[Dwlee99]

If your name is Andante and you have investigative results you should share them now ty

[Dwlee99]

Also how are there 5 town prs in the graveyard this is so tragic

[Dwlee99]

Am I that good at PR hunting you think

[Dwlee99]

Actually 2 were limmed, one blown up by frog, one blown up by scum but the PR claimed, and the night kill was also outed as a PR

[Dwlee99]

Yea I just recalled too. Enchant do you plan to actually give reads?

[Dwlee99]

Yea I just recalled too. Enchant do you plan to actually give reads?

Let's see after you ded.

Gonna have to night kill me bud

UNVOTE:
Don't want day to end

Does anyone think it'd be weird for strange to choose to blow up the bomb when she knows she is extremely likely to be the one accused for and limmed for it?

I've been thinking about this and if you're duping me. Ultimately, I figured 1) scum!strange probably had to take an opportunity to kill a doc given we haven't seen any NKs yet. 2) maybe she thought your switch was going to come across scummier than it actually was.

Idk, I'm kind of trusting my instincts here that you just look more town and I was kind of suss on strange early game, but people talked me out of it.

Hmmmm okay I need to supress

If your name is Andante and you have investigative results you should share them now ty

how do you know I have info? that's kinda sus

If I were scum I'd just kill you without letting you out your results ^-^

[Dwlee99]

Andante can you out your info please

[Dwlee99]

What do you think of menalque, Andante?

[Dwlee99]

Andante you are an investigative role with 3 results and are going to be killed tonight can you out what your investigations meant please

[Dwlee99]

If your name is Andante and you have investigative results you should share them now ty

how do you know I have info? that's kinda sus

[Dwlee99]

VP did not miss that you're a PR.

[Dwlee99]

Greeting is dead because Greeting was also an outed pr over you. It seems you might have results you can claim before you get night killed though which would be epic.

[Dwlee99]

If your name is Andante and you have investigative results you should share them now ty

how do you know I have info? that's kinda sus

what made you ask the first question?

That you're an outed PR and that you're likely to be night killed tonight so you should say what results you have before that info is lost?

[Dwlee99]

I'm so confused on the greeting kill tbh, like, what... lets lim mistyx!!!

Because Greeting was a PR claim

[Dwlee99]

Yes Andante let's just lose all of your role results that's what we should do

I'm not questioning for doubt I'm asking you to not have us lose your info.

[Dwlee99]

THEN WHY ARE YOU VOTING ME

[Dwlee99]

Andante the doc is DEAD

[Dwlee99]

you're trying to fish what my exact role is. that's sus

Why would I care if I was mafia I would just shoot you ahhh

[Dwlee99]

Do you have a guilty yes/no

[Dwlee99]

you're trying to judge if I'm worth shooting or leaving alive. you don't know my exact role, and you're trying to balance if I need to die for my role, or if I can live cause I'm likely to sheep like whoever. cough cough. the reason greeting and andres died before me...

Or I'd just shoot you because you are confirmed PR and there's no known PR outside of yourself and no one else is gonna claim today

[Dwlee99]

I had a dream last night where Andante appeared and this is why

[Dwlee99]

I had a dream last night where Andante appeared and this is why

lmao what?

Okay so we were on a bus but also playing mafia?

And basically it ended up being this scenario where either we both die or we both live in the mafia game, and you refused to go the both live route with me even though I townread you. And then I explained you'd die if you caused me to die and you were suddenly on board with letting me live

[Dwlee99]

I was in class and getting lunch with a friend: it's cool that Strange did not kill Greeting but that is not a clear. Do you know that Mistyx did kill someone?

[Dwlee99]

I was in class and getting lunch with a friend: it's cool that Strange did not kill Greeting but that is not a clear. Do you know that Mistyx did kill someone?

Do you tr Mistyx?

No she is my preferred lim immediately after we sort the hood

[Dwlee99]

Frozen scum?

[Dwlee99]

Nobody caught malakittens this game.

Excuse me

[Dwlee99]

I do agree with Dwlee that for the most part SM is getting rolled by dwlee in terms of arguments and it’s strange that strange would have the confidence to go 1v1 with dwlee, (but some people have tried to move it into baltar so who knows what they were trying to do), but dwlee wasn’t trying as hard.
I lost track of my own thoughts.

Point being is that, yes, in terms of activity, SM would be at a disadvantage so it would be strange for them to blow up andre’s.
Since you know, the scum team would probably know that.

On the other hand, yeah. They planned to murder andre’s from the get go that night phase. And they had a limited number of people to choose from. There were like, 5 people.

Yea I think I was townier than her even before I started posting more this day phase but there were a lot of people with a sticky scumread on me so idk

[Dwlee99]

Andante doesn't have a guilty that's the thing

[Dwlee99]

What do you think of menalque, Andante?

I think Mistyx is mafia

Can I get an actual answer to this, Andante

[Dwlee99]

They just said Mistyx is literally scum. If they’re literally scum than they have a guilty or they’re choosing their words poorly.

She is choosing words poorly. Her N3 result was that Strange didn't kill Greeting. It can't also be that Mistyx did kill Greeting unless she knows Strange didn't kill Greeting cause Mistyx killed Greeting but if she has that info she needs to just say it

[Dwlee99]

Andante did Strange visit anyone?

[Dwlee99]

Misty's reason for scumreading me is literally that I'm the third vote on the mala wagon

That's it

That's the tweet

It's even worse when you realize I wasn't third on the mala wagon originally. I was only third at the end of the day because VPB hopped off and back on the mala wagon.

Anyway thank you for coming to my Ted talk

Can we also get a claim from Strange

[Dwlee99]

Can we not hammer this yet please

There's still so much discussion happening and all we got out of the mistyx slot was a half-assed reads list

[Dwlee99]

continue to suspect this flips town but go off team

How similar is this to the frog vibe?

[Dwlee99]

HURT: andante
by request but also I don't townread any of pooky/menalque/titus enough to want them as experts.

[Dwlee99]

The VP!scum angle is: vp was the most townread in our hood going into night, so if he can rely on that then he gets off two mislims in exchange for his life which is worth when VP probably will be flipped at some point.

The strange!scum angle is: ??? hope that there's enough wifom about this sort of thing that they don't get limmed. But then they'd have brought that up right? Wouldn't they be arguing right now that they wouldn't explode it because they'd be the obvious elimination after, and therefore they wouldn't explode as scum?

[Dwlee99]

I also want to note that VP was in fact the last person to submit info in the hood, which is mildly suspicious. I was pretty in the air, and I wonder if VP was hoping I would just choose to blow up Andres myself, but then I chose to solve the bomb, and then VP posted but didn't post his solve, and then Strange posted her solve, and then VP posted his.

[Dwlee99]

Makes sense to me dwlee.

Do you think VP is scum now? This post doesn't make sense to me.

[Dwlee99]

I think GL is town because of his defense of me which is kinda zero level but also his thought process there is pretty complex so

[Dwlee99]

I think it’s a plausible explanation from a town you perspective.
I just don’t agree with it much if at all.

Okay so you still think strange is flipping scum?

[Dwlee99]

I think it’s a plausible explanation from a town you perspective.
I just don’t agree with it much if at all.

Okay so you still think strange is flipping scum?

Probably, yeah. Came in this day phase ready to kill you, but meh. Here we are.
I didn’t feel too good about it until just a few minutes ago though.

Can you explain what convinced you to feel good about it?

[Dwlee99]

I will say I think the Andante argument that VP is scum because he was allowed to get off 2 defuses doesn't make much sense to me. I think there is little scum value in creating an automatic pool of 3 to be able to find scum in, especially early in the game.

Game started 15 v 4, and the night Mistyx gave VP info it was 12 v 4.

Chance of randomly hitting mafia was 1/4 in 12:4 ratio vs 1/3 if town!VP was blown up.

[Dwlee99]

They got the vote count wrong and wrote a death post. that goes against my religion. All heretics must be vanquished.

I've done it as town before. On a site with a thing that automatically locks thread on hammers.

[Dwlee99]

continue to suspect this flips town but go off team

How similar is this to the frog vibe?

eh that was totally different imo if frog came back to life right now i would elim him again anyway

ok this comment from Dwlee. lmao no. I was exactly with Ceph on that frog thing, like, I was like, this play is too bad to be scum. it's most likely town... but it was so bad that I actually don't care... Here it's like Dwlee is trying to throw shade towards ceph or whatever?? I don't like that comment at all... like why are you singling Ceph out??

VOTE: Dwlee

You were not like "this play is too bad to be scum," you were screaming for their head?!

That post wasn't shade at Ceph, he said he felt like Frogs would flip town, and I wanted to know if the vibe here was similar because if it was and ceph is accurate then strange is more likely to be town?

[Dwlee99]

FROGSTER IS MAFIA. IGNORE ANYTHING HE SAYS HERE. He Refused to even attempt to solve the bomb last night and was messing around. catboi did claim the IC thing last night, and frogster instead refused to solve, and basically claimed maf in that hood

???

[Dwlee99]

I think you're town can you not blatantly lie about things that have happened?

[Dwlee99]

I'm not arguing any of this - I think frog is flipping town as I have said multiple times

If he doesn't, that changes things

Like this post is what I'm talking about from Ceph and that's why I wanted to know if he felt similarly about Strange

[Dwlee99]

No I didn't. If you remember I spent day 2 gloating about being right about frogs

[Dwlee99]

Also you never said you think Frogster is town from my recollection...

[Dwlee99]

Menalque: why were you voting VPB yesterday? Why are you townreading him now? Why do you scumread me and strange more than him?

[Dwlee99]

Yeah, I saw dwlee, I just don’t really feel like engaging on it atm

It would be helpful for me if you answered that

[Dwlee99]

If I were eligible I'd want to be there to sort her, sad

[Dwlee99]

HURT: All
HEAL: Andante
HEAL: Enchant
HEAL: Titus

What could go wrong

[Dwlee99]

HURT: All
HEAL: Andante
HEAL: Enchant
HEAL: Titus

What could go wrong

really

Sure what could go wrong

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Strange

[Dwlee99]

God

[Dwlee99]

Andante yesterday: dwlee is such an easy read
Me: produces mounds of content
Andante: idk maybe it's dwlee for no reason

[Dwlee99]

titus hasn't even responded to the idea so high chance titus just doesn't do anything, so could we do cephrir enchant and me?

...

[Dwlee99]

Andante yesterday: dwlee is such an easy read
Me: produces mounds of content
Andante: idk maybe it's dwlee for no reason

the point of this is what exactly?

You're inconsistent

[Dwlee99]

I like that Titus is coming to the same conclusions re: strange/Mistyx but for different reasons

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Dwlee

dwlee and strange have to be the next 2 flips. no reason to ever not flip both

and I need Dwlee flipped before Mistyx cause there's a strong thing catboi pointed out that they're not partners, which I'd agree with

So vote Mistyx? You know, the person there is support for and that in your own words "has an ISO worse than Mala?"

[Dwlee99]

If the last mini normal didn't happen I'd want Andante's head

[Dwlee99]

I also kinda want a full claim from Andante because I want her pinned to something in case she is actually scum here doing literally everything in her power to avoid voting Strange or Mistyx

[Dwlee99]

I like that Titus is coming to the same conclusions re: strange/Mistyx but for different reasons

Strange and Mistyx are kind of consensus scumread though - you don't think Titus would take this opportunity to get some bussing in?

I mean she might but also I don't even know if she knows that these people are scumreads based on the way she is posting it. Example: saying morning tweet should be flipped vs realizing that's mistyx now. I also think that the way she is coming to her conclusions is in a "Titus" way. Part of the reason I like it is is it makes me townread her a little, part of it is that I think if someone comes to the same conclusion as me in a different way than the conclusion is more likely to be correct as long as that way is somewhat founded in reality

[Dwlee99]

didnt andante literally claim mech info in favor of strange anyway

thats one of the reasons i'm not voting there

I believe it was just that Strange didn't commit the night kill but there's 2 other scum that could have and reads > mech

[Dwlee99]

I want Andante's head now, seems she'll throw out token scumreads towards both Strange/Misty but then find reasons to vote literally anywhere else, which was the same story on D3 with Mala

Been there done that she was town sob

[Dwlee99]

Andante don't call me an easy read and then horribly misread me while I'm playing solidly ty

[Dwlee99]

HURT: everyone
HEAL: Cephrir
HEAL: Titus
HEAL: CSF

[Dwlee99]

I need to just walk away... I'm literally so done

Cause I don't want to be expert with frogs, yall make me expert with frogs. I want to be expert with enchant, yall hate that. so whatever, let maf lead the game I don't care.

Who is leading that is scum? We can't all be scum

[Dwlee99]

Andante don't call me an easy read and then horribly misread me while I'm playing solidly ty

well I wonder WHY I'm SRing you... oh wait it's for a legit reason that no one even cared to ask, so whatever, I know nothing, yall know everything. have fun. town!strange is sitting e-1

You already said it, you said it was cause catboi thought I was scum by poe night one when it is now day four

[Dwlee99]

Who is eligible tomorrow? Will Bell be eligible? Feel better there than Menalque atm

[Dwlee99]

That's kind of a tomorrow problem though
HURT: CSF
HEAL: Pooky

Sorry Datisi for so many changes

[Dwlee99]

UNVOTE:

[Dwlee99]

i think the entire hood as is wants to kill me so uh

i'm probably getting nominated as the defuser so please don't?

Good?

[Dwlee99]

Who is eligible tomorrow? Will Bell be eligible? Feel better there than Menalque atm

yah Bell is also eligible and yeah I wouldn't argue with him taking a spot whether it's from Menalque or myself

on that note, do we think Andres N2 on Bell was definitely a save? I haven't seen a lot of discussion on it but with Andres flip in hand it feels a lot more likely

Rn I scumread Menalque for the end of day 1 hammer so I'd prefer Bell take his spot. But again, tomorrow problem

[Dwlee99]

I'm ineligible her heal doesn't matter.

But yea you can call it role fishing or getting a claim she has to stick to so she can't bullshit later. Too many times I've watched scum imply stuff and then slip around after I'm dead with town not forcing them onto a claim (coughcough pooky)

[Dwlee99]

Titus is genuinely annoying me. like, you're locked into me being scum for idk what reason and you're talking about posts 2000 posts ago... like, this.. lmao nahh

Andante please be self-aware of your read on me

[Dwlee99]

That's 4000 posts ago Andante. Read your post to Titus again?

[Dwlee99]

Is anybody townreading dwlee on play btw?

I don't think anyone is townreading me for anything besides play so I don't understand what you're getting at

[Dwlee99]

When did y'all say that? You and Pooky never accused me of doing zero solving...

[Dwlee99]

I also made the point (and pooky agreed so it was at least decent) that if I was planning to bus mala to go deep it doesn't make sense for me to then throw it in the dirt by forcing myself to not be able to end game.

[Dwlee99]

oh I hope strange flips town

Weird champ to rather be right than win

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Strange
e-1

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: VP Baltar

ESSAY INCOMING

Please actually read! Thanks! At least the end summarizing everything, please?

First, posts that kinda got ignored but were actually smart in hindsight:

Subject: KTaNE [twilight four]

The VP!scum angle is: vp was the most townread in our hood going into night, so if he can rely on that then he gets off two mislims in exchange for his life which is worth when VP probably will be flipped at some point.

The strange!scum angle is: ??? hope that there's enough wifom about this sort of thing that they don't get limmed. But then they'd have brought that up right? Wouldn't they be arguing right now that they wouldn't explode it because they'd be the obvious elimination after, and therefore they wouldn't explode as scum?

Subject: KTaNE [twilight four]

I also want to note that VP was in fact the last person to submit info in the hood, which is mildly suspicious. I was pretty in the air, and I wonder if VP was hoping I would just choose to blow up Andres myself, but then I chose to solve the bomb, and then VP posted but didn't post his solve, and then Strange posted her solve, and then VP posted his.

Okay so turns out these were right. Note to self: stop thinking once you land on the right conclusion

Anyway, I want to include more of my progression and what I think about the game right now. When I went from "paranoia about VP" to "wait maybe it is actually VP" was when Menalque posted these

Subject: KTaNE [twilight four]

Strange > dwlee > baltar

Could be strange and dwlee I guess, but that’s my preference for limming them

CSF, GL, bell, ceph, VPB all town

Pooky, Andy, enchant prob town?

Misty still scum

Titus can be scum, and is likely to be scum if only 1 in strange and dwlee

VOTE: strange

This post combined with what Menalque said here:

Subject: KTaNE [twilight four]

vote count 3.03

• with
  16
  votes in play, it takes
  9
  to make a decision.
  
• day 3 ends in
  (expired on 2022-04-18 21:00:00)
  .
  
• 3
  players who have the most nominations will be bomb experts on n3.

execution:

Malakittens [6]:

Dwlee99, Cephrir, VP Baltar, Cat Scratch Fever, PookyTheMagicalBear, GuiltyLion

VP Baltar [4]:

Enchant, Menalque, Andante, Greeting

Dwlee99 [1]:

StrangeMatter

not voting [5]:

Mistyx, Andresvmb, Titus, Malakittens, Bell

bomb expert nominations:

VP Baltar [4]:

PookyTheMagicalBear, GuiltyLion, Enchant, Cephrir

Dwlee99 [2]:

GuiltyLion, Enchant

Titus [1]:

Enchant

Malakittens [1]:

Enchant

StrangeMatter [1]:

Enchant

not nominating [12]:

Andante, Mistyx, VP Baltar, Dwlee99, Greeting, Andresvmb, Cat Scratch Fever, Menalque, Titus, Malakittens, StrangeMatter, Bell

ineligible to be nominated:

Andante, Greeting, Andresvmb, Menalque, PookyTheMagicalBear, Cat Scratch Fever, Cephrir, Bell, Mistyx, GuiltyLion

mod notes:

• Menalque v/la weekends.
  
• the vote counter is acting weird and i'm counting votes by hand, let me know if i make any mistakes.

Was thinking this was weird if my reads are accurate but it could just be that scum weren’t around and figured piling onto the Baltar wagon would look really bad if mala went through anyway/went through today

Are what made me worried. Okay, it wasn't quite what Menalque said here, but rather the vote count he was quoting that showed him voting VPB combined with now thinking that VPB was completely town all of a sudden. He also came into today with this to say:

Subject: KTaNE [twilight four]

Why were dwlee and strange experted?

Compare that to

Subject: KTaNE [twilight four]

my very brief thoughts are that Baltar probably needs to die today, and if scum flip then pooky definitely needs to die

Look through Menalque's ISO from this "baltar needs to die" to complaining about me and strange being experted, but not baltar, there is no progression in between there. Which is why I immediately unvoted and:

Subject: KTaNE [twilight four]

UNVOTE:
Don't want day to end

Does anyone think it'd be weird for strange to choose to blow up the bomb when she knows she is extremely likely to be the one accused for and limmed for it?

Subject: KTaNE [twilight four]

Menalque: why were you voting VPB yesterday? Why are you townreading him now? Why do you scumread me and strange more than him?

Eventually got Menalque to say this:

Subject: KTaNE [twilight four]

Yeah, I saw dwlee, I just don’t really feel like engaging on it atm

It would be helpful for me if you answered that

In the barest of bones— it was less related to finding VPB actively scummy and more to do with paranoia around him being defuser twice

But I just think he reads as town, and that goes with how I felt about him in the PT, and I realised it was at least partly ego — I didn’t want to be the one who called VPB town only for him to single handedly win for scum by defusing 4 times

But fuck it, if he’s scum, he’s played really well and he’s fooled me

Anyway, this post is kinda out of focus because I'm trying to combine two things into one.

To summarize this into something hopefully more digestible:

1.) VP was weird in the hood in the way he went about choosing to solve, mainly that VP waited until both Strange and I had posted our solutions to post his, despite being confirmed to be around after I had posted my solve and before Strange had because he posted in the expert thread but didn't post his solution.

2.) VP was the one with the most reason to explode the bomb there. He was both best positioned in terms of being townread the most, and as someone with two defuses already under his belt he was almost certainly going to flipped at some point, meaning if he can take out two or three townies in exchange for his life before he gets flipped it would be extremely worth it, especially since one of them was the doctor.

3.) Menalque's progression on VP reeks of scum angling to get us (Strange/me) mislimmed. I mean, he literally came into the day complaining that we were made experts after the bomb had exploded, when really if town he should be considering VP the most suspicious given his previous thoughts that Baltar needs to die. It seems to me like he pushed Baltar for the bus cred on Day 3, but on Day 4 he now had to follow the new plan of getting as many townies killed before Baltar's flip.

This next point should probably get made into its own post but I don't feel like dealing with multiple drafts so here goes it:

4.) Baltar and Menalque pushed for Titus to be healed. Those with an especially keen memory will remember that Koba also wanted Titus to be an expert. There are further things that point to Titus being scum, especially with Menalque. Remember the weird flop that Menalque does with his VP Baltar read? Well turns out that he does a similar move regarding Titus. I'll now just go through the mentions of Titus Menalque makes to show why I think his progression is fake and why it points to Titus as third scum.

164: Menalque expresses a slight town lean on Titus
1678: He once again expresses a townread on Titus. He also expresses desire to vote for fire, MT (now mistyx), or Andres. This should be kept in mind now that two of these have flipped town. Possible if not Titus that third scum is still Mistyx based on rule of three, but also on further consideration I actually think Mistyx is playing with very little agenda and so might be town here. Back to going over progressions.
1681: Okay this one isn't about Titus but is further for burying Menalque: He expresses that he doesn't understand why VP is widely scumread. I'll try to find where this stance reverses into a scumread onto the slot but again weird progression here.
2566: Titus suddenly appears in the good odds of scum list with... nothing changing. I don't think Titus really changed amount of posting or how much content but was suddenly moved down to "good odds of scum." Misty is also listed as scum, again slight indication Mistyx isn't third scum. Baltar now becomes null.
2568: Menalque and Titus have this weird interaction where Menalque claims he thought Titus was softing masons with Frogs? This is just strange.

[post]2582: Update reads list from 2566. Now Baltar is town and pooky gets moved up to null town. Also note that Strange and I are listed as

null

. This is day two but I feel like if Menalque nullread Strange and I us being experts wouldn't be worthy of such a strong reaction on day 4 start (3465).
4059: Menalque is weird about not liking Titus' slot but being willing to just trust she is town. I don't feel like this accurately reflects how Menalque did in fact townread Titus at the beginning of the game.

To now summarize this section: Menalque acts kinda wonky around Titus. Townreading her, scumreading her randomly, being willing to just trust pooky on her slot, etc. I think this demonstrates Menalque is scum and with a good likelihood that Titus is the third scum.

ULTRA SUMMARY: VP is scum (duh) and Menalque is his partner. Titus has a decent chance of being the third. Please sheep ty

Edit upon GL selected as defuser: Because VP is scum, scum might actually be going for the 4 defusals win condition. If this is a successful defuse we probably have to eliminate GL at some point.

[Dwlee99]

Also I’m treating dwlee’s suggestion that I would make sense as scum with titus as a scumclaim unless someone wants to sell me otherwise lol

The associatives are there

titus is extremely unlikely to be scum she towned it up p hard in that pt

Okay well I couldn't have known that when I wrote my post after strange's flip, BUT what I wrote convinced me more that menalque is scum than that Titus is scum w/ menalque.

[Dwlee99]

Bum bada dum

I was right all along

VOTE: dwlee

Also, this completely lines up w/ what I pointed out, namely that your read on VP completely turned town and your read on me/strange turned scum with no progression as soon as VP blew up Andres.

[Dwlee99]

Did you spend the weekend at the bmx park dwlee?

I have no idea what this means

[Dwlee99]

No, the point is that your progression on Titus is awkward. It could be because you're scum with her, but it can also just be because you're scum. Not a back pedal

[Dwlee99]

Menalque's progression on (Strange, Dwlee, VP Baltar) went from D2 -> D3

(Null, Null, Scum) -> (Scum, Scum, Town) over a night phase after ending the day voting VP. And right after VP blew up Andres.

[Dwlee99]

Okay scum

[Dwlee99]

Also Bell town.

[Dwlee99]

HEAL: Bell
HEAL: CSF
HEAL: Andante

[Dwlee99]

I do appreciate you finally working up the nerve to actually outright come at me though, I wasn’t sure if you were scum previously or genuinely unsure town, but you’ve made it far easier this way

Like dwlee, we both know that you’re too experienced of a payer to think “bad progression therefore scum” is an actual gotcha moment or argument

And the fact that you’re coming at the whole thing from that pre-decided angle is the giveaway of why you’re not actually sorting me

I think you're competent enough to not flip reads on 3 players to the exactly wrong configuration immediately following a confirmed scum in 3 if you're town sooo

[Dwlee99]

Like if you're town sucks but you also just completely fucked up as far as reads go at the exact wrong time. Do you really think you wouldn't scumread you? When you scumread me for (*checks notes*) scumreading you?

[Dwlee99]

What was the color error?

[Dwlee99]

Was there a pink and red

[Dwlee99]

I meant did your instructions include one for a pink and one for a red

[Dwlee99]

Lucky gl

[Dwlee99]

Pooky what do you think of menalque's counterargument to me

[Dwlee99]

But his argument is essentially ignoring everything I'm saying and then saying I'm scum

[Dwlee99]

This is cute tho, feel free to keep trying

The condescension here is insane

[Dwlee99]

dwlee99 who doing literally nothing.

Oh come the fuck on

Are you for real right now or are you scum

[Dwlee99]

Q: what is the scum team doing with their no kill thingy. I can’t keep track or make every variation of possibilities.

Assuming no kill last night because there's probably not another protective:

They used a kill N3.

If GL is scum they've gained 3 kills, otherwise 2.

Max kills stored is this 3. Min is that their N1 and N2 kills were blocked and GL! town so that they have 0 kills.

[Dwlee99]

Enchant who am I doing "literally nothing" relative to? You? Lol

[Dwlee99]

I agree with not defusing anymore unless GL flips town (or I'm the defuser o3o)

[Dwlee99]

Like you'd trust me to defuse a bomb if he were town smh

[Dwlee99]

if dwlee planned this entire situation i'll scream

that's probably what happened lmao

Why are you so terrified of me lmao

[Dwlee99]

Are you positing that Andres could have fucked up the bomb description?

[Dwlee99]

I'm pretty sure if scum could directly fuck with expert info like that the game would be bastard.

[Dwlee99]

if all the bomb experts give the correct information about the bomb, the defuser will successfully defuse the bomb, and will survive the night.
if any of the bomb experts give incorrect information, the bomb will explode, and the defuser will die.

[Dwlee99]

Why do the kills not make sense from you!scum world? Greeting scumread you.

[Dwlee99]

I think Bell kill was blocked night 2. So you'd have 1 kill or 2 if GL is scum. That's not that many.

[Dwlee99]

Dwlee is town

true!

[Dwlee99]

Dwlee is town

no

but you unvoted me

[Dwlee99]

UNVOTE:

What was this

[Dwlee99]

Dwlee...do you think enchant should have logical consistency here?

Enchant is a trickster

[Dwlee99]

VP did you read my wall post. What did you think about it

[Dwlee99]

VP did you read my wall post. What did you think about it

SCREW YOU BOTH STOP MAKING EXCUSES

What excuse am I making what

[Dwlee99]

i read the case. it was fine i guess.

mena's response of "lol" is still incredibly scummy

Damn you could pretend it was a little better than that

[Dwlee99]

VP did you read my wall post. What did you think about it

SCREW YOU BOTH STOP MAKING EXCUSES

What excuse am I making what

It's confirmed one of you scum why you still trying to talk like for some bizarre reason it's not.

FUCKING STOP.

Well you can do that, you are scum after all.

BUT VP WTF STOP

Because his reactions to questions I ask should help other people make a judgment, and he is also trying to push the theory we could both be town right now.

[Dwlee99]

Vp’s response to this is silly, for the simple reason that given the amount of time they had, the whole thing should click for them that dwlee is scum unless their scumdar is entirely broken. Dwlee has enough posts to click.
I am weirded out that delete softened their response too.

I guess auto correct is calling sales sales dwlee99 wow it won’t even ducking autocorrect the same way twice.
Have at you autocorrect. You’re the real enemy.

I don't have to get aggressive with VP to think he's scum :shrug:

[Dwlee99]

Do I have to say I'll hard clear Dwlee? Dwlee is town. Just vote VP lol I'm laughing at the "why would I..." case again lol ok, I'm out got stuff to do

Easy read confirmed?

[Dwlee99]

2.) VP was the one with the most reason to explode the bomb there. He was both best positioned in terms of being townread the most, and as someone with two defuses already under his belt he was almost certainly going to flipped at some point, meaning if he can take out two or three townies in exchange for his life before he gets flipped it would be extremely worth it, especially since one of them was the doctor.

Did you ignore this paragraph

[Dwlee99]

2.) VP was the one with the most reason to explode the bomb there. He was both best positioned in terms of being townread the most, and as someone with two defuses already under his belt he was almost certainly going to flipped at some point, meaning if he can take out two or three townies in exchange for his life before he gets flipped it would be extremely worth it, especially since one of them was the doctor.

Did you ignore this paragraph

If this was my plan, why am I not opening today trying to cut your head off? It's clearly counterfactual to how I'm even playing here. If I was scum, I have no reason to even consider you're town...and in fact, that just makes my lim more likely.

Do you think I'd be afraid to 1v1 you?

ATP you're very unlikely to win it if you 1v1d me. But if you're town then that would mean Andres just completely fucked up in describing the bomb which does not seem likely? Also I'm very surprised you're claiming PR here cause I don't know if you've really been playing like a PR

[Dwlee99]

If VP is town by some miracle then I'd want Enchant limmed. But Menalque's still scum