KTaNE [game over!]

[Cat Scratch Fever]

HEAL: enchant
HEAL: pooky
HEAL: bell

I’d like to go tomorrow with CSF and ceph

?

Why not today

[Cat Scratch Fever]

My perspective is Titus made a promise, so now she needs to deliver. Doesn't feel like setting her up for anything if she is saying she will do this because I do not understand her game so far. I will say I just finished a game with her though where she was scum and she put ALOT of effort into that

I did miss her 3528 where she asked to be an expert tonight

Hmm idk. If we do that, better pick two people we are reasonable confident are town

Cephrir and ??? Bell can't be picked and andante doesn't really want in

Maybe someone who had a good track record of reading her?

@titus, who would you want in a hypothetical expert hood tonight?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

enchant doesn't even want to be an expert

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I don't get it, are you townreading Enchant now, Andante?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I don't get it, are you townreading Enchant now, Andante?

yes, where did I call enchant not town?

I don't remember you talking about him much at all, so this feels like it's materializing out of nothing

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Well when I look at the list of names, cross off inelligible, who do I want in a hood with me and titus to solve. if I remember correctly catboi called enchant town, I've been loving talking to enchant today, so my ideal dream bomb squad is me titus enchant. legooooo your amount of concern feels weird to me...

I'm paranoid that you're picking two scummy people to be in the hood with you to blame them if something goes wrong

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Titus is whatever since lots of people suggested it

But Enchant does feel like pulling a name out of thin air

[Cat Scratch Fever]

whatever andante is probably still town

I'm rereading the beginning of today and Strange's dwlee push and remembered why I voted Strange in the first place. I'm okay ending there

If Titus has given up on catching during the day, are we waiting for anything else before EOD? Just sorting out heals?

Hi Bell

[Cat Scratch Fever]

oh snap... you were doubting me being town? lol what?

Doubting is probably too strong a word

But I was definitely taking a step back and trying to understand your thought process behind the Enchant heal

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I kindly request that the next pagetopper puts in a cat gif

Thanks in advance for your cooperation

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm too slow

Lim comcast, thanks

[Cat Scratch Fever]

HURT: All
HEAL: Andante
HEAL: Enchant
HEAL: Titus

What could go wrong

really

[Cat Scratch Fever]

at least we'll have better heal options the day after

[Cat Scratch Fever]

HEAL: pooky

[Cat Scratch Fever]

HURT: All
HEAL: Andante
HEAL: Enchant
HEAL: Titus

What could go wrong

really

Sure what could go wrong

Enchant trolls
Titus is MIA
Andante is sad

just off the top of my head

[Cat Scratch Fever]

To be clear: not even a hint of irony there

It’s been honestly awful, and once I get home I’m going to be wrapping myself in a blanket and trying to forget

Also, I’d really like to go with GL

I'm really sorry

And about to, cuz you think he's town?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Town!!!

[Cat Scratch Fever]

To be clear: not even a hint of irony there

It’s been honestly awful, and once I get home I’m going to be wrapping myself in a blanket and trying to forget

Also, I’d really like to go with GL

I'm really sorry

And about to, cuz you think he's town?

*About GL

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I like that Titus is coming to the same conclusions re: strange/Mistyx but for different reasons

Strange and Mistyx are kind of consensus scumread though - you don't think Titus would take this opportunity to get some bussing in?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Andante you seem a lot more interested in using catboi's D1 reads rather than your own

having Dwlee scum over Strange here just feels motivated to avoid a Strange vote, Dwlee is town far more of the time than Strange here

yeah cause his are backed by logic and he's good

He also hasn't had time to reassess his reads after flips

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think it's cephrir Titus pooky as the hood right now

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think it's cephrir Titus pooky as the hood right now

Im okay with this

Andante and i are tied with pooky though. Can we break the tie just to be sure

HURT: andante
HURT: me (i know this doesn't work - someone please hurt me)

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I don't value vca all that much so if I'm in a hood with Titus, I'm just going to be annoyed lol

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Is anybody townreading dwlee on play btw?

Goes out to anyone but I’m most interested in CSF/GL/pooky/bell’s takes

yeah I am

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I also made the point (and pooky agreed so it was at least decent) that if I was planning to bus mala to go deep it doesn't make sense for me to then throw it in the dirt by forcing myself to not be able to end game.

yeah basically this

I also don't think their scumgame is that similar to their towngame. I townread their conviction in their reads and how their reads change, whereas their scumgame feels like a pale shadow of this. I don't know how to explain that better.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I do think scum probably bussed mala, because why wouldn't you

I just don't think it's dwlee

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Dwlee99, Cephrir, Cat Scratch Fever, PookyTheMagicalBear, GuiltyLion, Andante, Andresvmb, VP Baltar, Enchant

Who do you think bussed here? This seems p pure to me

If I had to I’d probably say pooky or maybe andante, with dwlee ruled out

yeah and why not GL or Enchant

I do kind of want to get hooded with GL tomorrow and get a better read there

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Okay, thanks both, I might just be wrong here then

I guess we’ll see if strange towns, but maybe it’s more likely just 1 scum in the last night group

Why did you think Strange is town?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Is Titus done yet

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Strange E-2

[Cat Scratch Fever]

We have a 50-50 chance of limming scum between Baltar and dwlee. We should be able to get it right today, right?

laughs nervously

Anyway, I'm feeling VPB is more likely scum between the two

The reason I started thinking he was town in the first place was a combo of drinking the wine (by buying into the logic that scum!VP wouldn't make himself defuser N1) and also because I liked his push on Andres

And the latter flipped town, so I'm not sure how much stock I should place in that anymore

Also I kind of like dwlee's wallpost. Forget the paranoia stuff, why are you townreading vp in the first place, mena?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

they could have just openly scumread me and blown me up without much consequence

Actually, expand on this too please

I still think anyone unilaterally using the expert role to vig someone who isn’t a p consensus SR is kinda scumclaiming, so this doesn’t figure to me. I think you’re broadly p townread this game, so I’m not seeing how there would have been likely no consequence from them killing you

I don't think guilty lion is consensus townread this game

At least I wasn't

[Cat Scratch Fever]

What was the back pedal?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

why are you townreading vp in the first place, mena?

I need to run through this again, but I liked his posting in the N1/D2 posting

Pedit: maybe not consensus but has anyone been scumreading him? I think it certainly would have raised several eyebrows if anyone had vigged him

I mean D2 was a complete shitshow, i don't think his posts stood out there at all

About GL, yeah thats fair

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Anything exciting happen in the hood?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Lmao really

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Post it anyway

[Cat Scratch Fever]

no he was pretty level headed for the most part

im wondering if i was the dummy getting the wool pulled over my eyes in that pt

then yeah, there’s no way GL was town.

yall we literally have to flip VP here,

cause we can potentially lose tonight after scum defuses 4th bomb

Yea this

And also building on this, we need to think about our heals carefully and

not put all of our strongest TRs in the hood

Because if VPB scum and Guilty scum, then we need to make sure at least one solid townie is always in the defusal hood to stonewall any attempt to defuse bombs

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: VPB

HEAL: Andante

[Cat Scratch Fever]

no he was pretty level headed for the most part

im wondering if i was the dummy getting the wool pulled over my eyes in that pt

then yeah, there’s no way GL was town.

yall we literally have to flip VP here,

cause we can potentially lose tonight after scum defuses 4th bomb

Yea this

And also building on this, we need to think about our heals carefully and

not put all of our strongest TRs in the hood

Because if VPB scum and Guilty scum, then we need to make sure at least one solid townie is always in the defusal hood to stonewall any attempt to defuse bombs

Oh wait, scum might have another switcheroo ability though

ugh nvm

[Cat Scratch Fever]

why?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

no he was pretty level headed for the most part

im wondering if i was the dummy getting the wool pulled over my eyes in that pt

then yeah, there’s no way GL was town.

yall we literally have to flip VP here,

cause we can potentially lose tonight after scum defuses 4th bomb

Yea this

And also building on this, we need to think about our heals carefully and

not put all of our strongest TRs in the hood

Because if VPB scum and Guilty scum, then we need to make sure at least one solid townie is always in the defusal hood to stonewall any attempt to defuse bombs

Oh wait, scum might have another switcheroo ability though

ugh nvm

I think the right strategy is to put 2 strong townreads and a null read

Just in case

[Cat Scratch Fever]

[Cat Scratch Fever]

It sounds like there's good reason to consider the hood all town, is that right? Because that would help immensely with POE

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Good shit guys

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Errr what are you confused about?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Errr what are you confused about?

people keep saying there’s a plan but not saying what it is

Who else is scum aside from VP?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

ceph if you thought vp scum over dwlee why would you allow the defusal to go through?

same question to pooky/titus if you agree with scum vp

This is a valid question tbh

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm sorry Cephrir

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Also I kind of like dwlee's wallpost.

that's a huge yikes

did you really expect them to case you when from their POV, you're already likely to flip scum anyway?

And yes, I thought Mena's read trajectory on you is bad. This has been talked about.

pronoun edit. ~D

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Q: what is the scum team doing with their no kill thingy. I can’t keep track or make every variation of possibilities.

yes exactly!

where are the freaking kills.

this only reinforced my suspicion this morning that something we are not seeing is happening here. I've been saying it all game, but we are so focused on the night game, we are not thinking about day play here. I'm looking at people I see who are scummy and it's not matching up with what is happening at nights. That's a huge red flag that I'm concerned about.

If

you're town, scum should only have 2 NKs total. One was Greeting. The other can be explained away by Andres' protection.

What do you mean "where are the kill

s

" (plural)?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Also I kind of like dwlee's wallpost.

that's a huge yikes

did you really expect them to case you when from their POV, you're already likely to flip scum anyway?

And yes, I thought Mena's read trajectory on you is bad. This has been talked about.

sorry

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I find andres' doc saves weird and unlikely to be kill targets unless scum are really incompetent, but fair enough on the count. Where is the other kill? If you're saying I'm scum, that just speaks more to the point I'm making.

Maybe there's a

third

protective lol

More seriously, maybe scum were roleblocked or maybe they're saving the third kill

More importantly, I don't think the lack of NKs should be that surprising from your POV, and I think it's a possible slip

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Q: what is the scum team doing with their no kill thingy. I can’t keep track or make every variation of possibilities.

yes exactly!

where are the freaking kills.

this only reinforced my suspicion this morning that something we are not seeing is happening here. I've been saying it all game, but we are so focused on the night game, we are not thinking about day play here. I'm looking at people I see who are scummy and it's not matching up with what is happening at nights. That's a huge red flag that I'm concerned about.

If

you're town, scum should only have 2 NKs total. One was Greeting. The other can be explained away by Andres' protection.

What do you mean "where are the kill

s

" (plural)?

I find andres' doc saves weird and unlikely to be kill targets unless scum are really incompetent, but fair enough on the count. Where is the other kill? If you're saying I'm scum, that just speaks more to the point I'm making.

Maybe there's a

third

protective lol

More seriously, maybe scum were roleblocked or maybe they're saving the third kill

More importantly, I don't think the lack of NKs should be that surprising from your POV, and I think it's a possible slip

To be clear, the slip is that you (VP Baltar) know there are 2 missing NKs.

There can only be 2 missing NKs if you're scum.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I find andres' doc saves weird and unlikely to be kill targets unless scum are really incompetent, but fair enough on the count. Where is the other kill? If you're saying I'm scum, that just speaks more to the point I'm making.

Maybe there's a

third

protective lol

More seriously, maybe scum were roleblocked or maybe they're saving the third kill

More importantly, I don't think the lack of NKs should be that surprising from your POV, and I think it's a possible slip

Three protectives seems OP?

Could be roleblock I suppose, but also seems to fall into OP territory given how many PRs are already flipped.

What we know about scum so far is they have some kind of switching ability, and they were informed about something. So yeah, it doesn't make fucking sense from my perspective at all. Or if you believe there is a third protective/RB, then you should think scum have more power, possibly to fuck with experts. Even if scum had something like a role cop, I don't see how it counters something like three protectives.

I don't really know about balance.

The protectives that have flipped don't seem to be able to protect the bomb defuser.

Which means that once we hit 3 defusals (where we're at now), the protectives would've been pretty useless... so it doesn't seem that out of balance to me.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Okay so where do you think the kills went?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

She did broadcast a scumread on you yesterday

It was kind of bad though

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Okay so where do you think the kills went?

no clue. Maybe scum are creating enough wifom to get through the VP and dwlee kills and then are going to have kills and start blowing up bombs to accelerate the game. I bet the numbers reflect that if dwlee and I are dead, and then scum start blowing up bombs with kills every night, they win pretty quickly.

If the plan was to stockpile kills, then the Greeting kill N3 is pretty weird

Not particularly convinced that's the strategy they're going for

[Cat Scratch Fever]

If the plan was to stockpile kills, then the Greeting kill N3 is pretty weird

Why? Greeting and andante both claimed PRs on like D2

yea so why not kill Andante as well

I just don't think that's what scum are doing

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm trying to understand your viewpoint and it doesn't make sense to me

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Town is gonna lose this game lol

Mena do you know something the rest of us don't? Because if you do, now would be a great time to out it

[Cat Scratch Fever]

well you'd get out of a 1v1 if you successfully shifted the lim away from {you, dwlee}

I wouldn't say you gain nothing

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Nah, but i think that the fact that VPB is looking like the exe for today instead of dwlee means that scum has far more swing over this game than town

If I’m wrong I can eat shit for it tomorrow I guess, but I feel like by far my most reliable reads are on if a push directed at me is legit suspicion or calculated, and I think dwlee’s screams calculated — plus I really do think VPB choosing to like suggest maybe Andres fucked up or push anywhere other than dwlee is relatively suicidal for scum!him and I don’t think that VPB goes that route

I could maybe, maybe see a world where they’re both scum, but if I have to choose 1 I think dwlee is much more in line with what I’d expect from scum here (doubling down on trying to get the 1 on 1 won)

tbh I think your read on VP is weirdly strong

I went back to VP's D2 posts and I'm still not sure what there screamed town to you

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Enchant, you seem to be doing well.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

HEAL: Bell
HEAL: CSF
HEAL: Andante

This is the composition of experts I'd like tonight

I still think we should only put 2 TRs in the group and throw a nullread in to be the third

Otherwise on D6, we only have {Dwlee99, Menalque, Misty, GL, Enchant} to pick from, which is just going to be a repeat of D3

Andante should absolutely go in today b/c she's most likely to get killed

Then only one of me/Bell imo

[Cat Scratch Fever]

My eyes kind of glazed over the last page and a half

[Cat Scratch Fever]

He probably mean 4668

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Anyone else getting cold feet?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I can hard clear dwlee. just vote VP thanks

Nobody believes you are hard clearing anyone. Also, if you're an investigator, then why not investigate me last night, the person you were scum reading all fucking game?

Kinda weird for you to not believe she has a clear though when that would fit your worldview that you+dwlee are town

[Cat Scratch Fever]

HEAL: bell

Bell, andante, who do we want as the third?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Effectively yeah since neither GL nor misty have voted yet

[Cat Scratch Fever]

HEAL: bell

Bell, andante, who do we want as the third?

Maybe enchant to realize andante's D4 dream

HEAL: enchant

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Ummm ok

So last night's hood being all town predicates on Titus town, right?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Big if

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I honestly don't see a conspiracy, it seems like Titus individually decided to do a gambit.

And it doesn't seem like andante lied about her dwlee result either since dwlee isn't refuting it; and i agree it's unlikely for scum to be goons given town power.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Mala arguably didn't push any agenda at all either

[Cat Scratch Fever]

HEAL: Bell
HEAL: Andante
HEAL: Enchant

I'm not sure about Enchant but I think fairly decent odds he's town and I agree with CSF around saving a strong townread (her) for tomorrow. at the moment I don't want Menalque as an expert

It kind of scares me that youre agreeing with me this much

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Misty does feel like she's bussing since her vote comes without oomph

Although i guess thats consistent of her play this game

I dunno

I just want to hide under a blanket

[Cat Scratch Fever]

HEAL: bell

Bell, andante, who do we want as the third?

Maybe enchant to realize andante's D4 dream

HEAL: enchant

Fix heals!! Really, we can't put all of our TRs into a single hood

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Both are high posters

I do have a seed of doubt in the back of my head that they could be both town but my brain says no

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Misty

or Mena today

[Cat Scratch Fever]

HEAL: dwlee
HEAL: guilty

I also want to be an expert today

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Sorry Titus but we should have blown up the bomb last night. It's just basic risk mitigation.

Although tonight, if we lim scum today, we can possibly defuse again. The only person that we cannot allow to defuse a bomb is GuiltyLion, since he has already defused once, so I propose we expert him.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Sorry Titus but we should have blown up the bomb last night. It's just basic risk mitigation.

Although tonight, if we lim scum today, we can possibly defuse again. The only person that we cannot allow to defuse a bomb is GuiltyLion, since he has already defused once, so I propose we expert him.

i dont think we can with GL alive

Minor correction: I meant if we lim scum today

that isn't GuiltyLion

(say, Misty, for example)

Then there's only 1 scum left going into night. Suppose the last scum alive is GuiltyLion

Then as long as he doesn't defuse any more bombs, we should be ok to let anyone else defuse at least for tonight only, right?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Anyone else have Baltar associative insights?

Menalque

yeah this

Mena's read on VPB changed in a way that is unlikely to come from town

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

if we flip this then pooky/ceph are town

and we sort in the rest

when i say 0-2 i mean

it's either GL/Pooky, GL/Ceph, or none of them

What? This isn't even internally consistent?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

if we flip this then pooky/ceph are town

and we sort in the rest

when i say 0-2 i mean

it's either GL/Pooky, GL/Ceph, or none of them

What? This isn't even internally consistent?

meant to say if this flips scum

That's how I was reading it.

"If GL flips scum, then pooky/ceph are town"

"GL is scum with pooky or ceph, or none of them are scum"

[Cat Scratch Fever]

N1 PT was 7 pages total

There was some initial talk about why Andres was an expert and catboi was the defuser. There was generally a good deal of talk about Andres since that was VPB's primary scumread.

Cephrir was lightly townreading VPB and leaned toward saving, but also his TR was not that strong so he was ultimately fine with either saving or blowing him up

I started doubting my scumread on VPB, since I liked his push on andres and I didn't think scum would put scum!VP as defuser.

pooky initially came in and was like VPB you're going to die
then reconsidered a bit after VPB started pushing an Andres/pooky team
I'd say he was the most reluctant to save VPB by a good deal

Mena came in last and said we should be defusing all bombs because this game is like SH (Secret Hitler, I'm assuming), and you can get some info by trying to defuse all bombs and see which ones succeed/fail.
He solved his part really fast.
I asked him if he knew about scum's 4 defuse alternate wincon after he already posted his solve and he claimed he didn't.

So Mena was first to post his solve, then Cephrir, me, pooky in that order.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm rereading our N1 pt

there is approx 0% that you make the posts you made there if you have the role you claimed

I'm not sure why Mena was so confident that VP's claim didn't jive with his N1 pt posting

[Cat Scratch Fever]

All right. Who's scum?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Mena

I'm a jailkeeper

Fullclaim

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I doubt there are 4 protectives

[Cat Scratch Fever]

who did you babysit?

And no, I'm lazy JK

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Because Misty and Mena are scum

[Cat Scratch Fever]

How is that a crumb??

[Cat Scratch Fever]

HEAL ME, DWLEE AND GUILTYLION PLEASE

[Cat Scratch Fever]

AYYYY MENA SAVED ME

Mena didn't save anything because I JK'd him last night

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I literally think it's just Mena and Misty.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I started typing a long ass, kind of tinfoily post about why Misty and Mena are both scum earlier. Let me finish typing it up

[Cat Scratch Fever]

While I was rereading last night, I noticed that both VP Baltar and The Praetorian made the same incorrect assumption about the setup.

They both thought that we could nominate the bomb

defuser

during the day.

Spoiler: VP Baltar

wait so we have to lim AND defuse a bomb???? For some reason (read: not reading closely)

I thought the day play was just picking who defused the bomb.

well even if they were mandatory somehow, we'd just intentionally give bad info if we decide we want to fail all bombs by default

oh like use them as a double elim?

Spoiler: The Praetorian

Hi I'm not reading the first 7 pages

nom me for defuser ty

HEAL: the praetorian

also VOTE: catboi

mafia chooses the defuser each night. town votes to nominate the experts. there is no fully functional townkill because even if experts choose to detonate, they are only playing scum's wifom game.

Oh lol

I thought the system was eliminate + nominate defusers

and experts

> Why would they think we could nominate defusers during the day?
A: Initially, there was this incorrectly written rule that was later corrected. Cephrir pointed it out here.

once the execution vote has been hammered and the day is over, twilight starts.

the needed number of players who at that moment have the most nominations will be the night's bomb defusers.

i think this rule is supposed to say experts at the end

<snipped for brevity>

My working theory is that someone on the scumteam read the incorrect rule and was under the assumption that we (the town collective) could nominate defusers during the day. Then, what probably went down in the Scum PT is that they spent the pregame discussing strategies around who they should nominate as the

defuser

during the day.

> Why is this important?

Because MafiaScum's favorite bat (aka Mistyx slot) also made the same mistake.

i understand it's prolly not decided but

are we trying to put town or scum in the

defuser's

seat

catboi had to correct her in 132.

> Is it possible that Morning Tweet/Misty is just town who also misunderstood the rules?

I think it's very unlikely.

- catboi very clearly stated in 35 that scum choose the defusers. MT's first post was after that ---> I think MT came into the game with this preconceived notion that town can nom defusers due to talk in the Scum PT, and her brain automatically filtered out anything that was contrary.

- At best, Morning Tweet was not closely reading the game, which in a vacuum I'd say is lightly scummy.

- Even if the setup is confusing and not every townie understood the entire setup right away, the opening VC makes it very clear that you cannot nominate defusers, only experts.

- MT/Misty ISOs are also just scummy even if you don't think anything I'm writing here makes a lick of sense .

Just for fun, I went through everyone who has flipped town to see if they also explicitly made the same mistake about the setup. None of them did (although some were inconclusive):

• Lukewarm/fireisredsir - 71 (end of first line)
  
• catboi - 21 and again in 35
  
• Frogsterking - somewhat inconclusive, although I'd argue that he also understood how the setup worked from 54
  
• Andresvmb - inconclusive, his first post came way after setup confusion was cleared up
  
• Greeting - very top of 85 (in the bolded text)
  
• StrangeMatter - 55
  
• I can also add Titus to this list now - 36

---

btw, Menalque's opening post was:

i have a plan where we dont let any1 defuse any bombs because defusing bombs is boring

pooky obviously scum

also I wanna be bomb defuser

I originally wrote some stuff here where I wanted to lim Misty then Mena. But now I don't care, both can go

[Cat Scratch Fever]

tl;dr just lim Mena and Misty thanks

[Cat Scratch Fever]

In what world was GuiltyLion getting NK'd N1

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Can people at least confirm that after I flip town, CSF goes tomorrow?

Unless someone wants to try and argue how CSF claiming to JK me fits with my (confirmed true post-flip) claim of being on Andy, and how that couples with no NK last night

Because scum probably didn't have an NK last night?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Q: what is the scum team doing with their no kill thingy. I can’t keep track or make every variation of possibilities.

yes exactly!

where are the freaking kills.

this only reinforced my suspicion this morning that something we are not seeing is happening here. I've been saying it all game, but we are so focused on the night game, we are not thinking about day play here. I'm looking at people I see who are scummy and it's not matching up with what is happening at nights. That's a huge red flag that I'm concerned about.

VPB kind of let slip that there are 2 missing NKs

Which means that scum has likely used up 3 NKs by day 5

So the only way that scum had a kill last night is if GuiltyLion is scum AND they chose to use the NK from GL's defuse last night

[Cat Scratch Fever]

GL is the only unresolved defuse, we definitely don't have two town defuses

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I kind of determined at some point that if I were to claim, I would claim full JK to try and bait the NK, but then decided it doesn't matter since scum is likely just you/Misty anyway

But does it even matter fypov? Do you think either full JK or lazy JK can coexist with another protective?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

But Titus asked that people suspect Andante for their push against them.

I’m a gated protective, I crumbed it D1 and it’s why I hammered fire so fast (i believed Andres’ claim and didn’t think there’d be a third protective role)

Last night I was on Andy, and I suspect that’s why no night kill outside titus, given that there’s no reason for scum to be saving their NKs with Baltar outed

Also you didn't think there'd be a third protective

But on D2 after fire flipped town, you *still* thought Andres was town???

My current reads (update):

town: Andante, Greeting, Andres, GL, Bell, CSF, Ceph, VP Baltar, enchant

null town: pooky
null for lack of engagement with them: Strange, mala, dwlee

good odds of scum: Titus

scum: misty, frog

***

pedit: appreciate the thought, Andres, but I was an expert last night and am therefore ineligible

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I would just not claim JK if I were scum...

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'll hammer Misty.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I really do think the nominating defuser thing is a scum slip. See 5344.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I wonder what kind of OP role Misty has.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

-snip-

THIS IS GENIUS

Everyone read this WHOLE post please. It fits exactly with what has already been pointed out about Menalque/Mistyx 1.) Just seeming like scum and 2.) Having terrible associatives with the flipped scum.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I really do think the nominating defuser thing is a scum slip. See 5344.

Fixed!

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I will if literally anyone outside of {Mena, Misty} asks me to

[Cat Scratch Fever]

i can't possibly imagine scum!CSF making 5344

that is a work of art

<3

Ah, mena. Bad cat.
Oog.

@kitty: don’t answer.

Does oog mean out of game influence?

I wasn't linking to a different thread, so there's no concerns about that here - I just mistyped a number that was higher than what we had in the thread, tried to fix it during preview, but I didn't clear the hash

[Cat Scratch Fever]

CSF, what does town possibly stand to lose from you claiming targets?

Idk but you're the one asking, so I don't want to answer, sorry

[Cat Scratch Fever]

something something DGB, something soemthing true claims take a second fakeclaims take forever

I claimed like right away after you said you were protective though

[Cat Scratch Fever]

It's been almost two hours since I outted my role. Even scum!me would have thought of convincing night targets by now.

I have a reason for withholding. Perhaps not a good one, but I do have one.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

pooky is... probably the only person I townread who's not advocating for misty over one of us. Maybe dwlee too, I can't remember. Bourbon is good.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Oh wait nvm, I misread your post.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Wait really?

Because if you're not invest, then there's been 0 invest flips so far, so maybe Mena's theory that Datisi stacked this game with protectives has some footing to it.

Also Mena claimed to have protected you yesterday, not me. I jailkept Mena yesterday.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Wait really?

Because if you're not invest, then there's been 0 invest flips so far, so maybe Mena's theory that Datisi stacked this game with protectives has some footing to it.

Also Mena claimed to have protected you yesterday, not me. I jailkept Mena yesterday.

Eh no, Mena's read progression on VPB was very shaky, and I'm standing by the nominating defuser thing being suss

[Cat Scratch Fever]

okay, I think I believe Andante.

I jailkept Andante N4. The reason I didn't want to out my jailkeep targets earlier when Mena was asking was because Andante hinted that she vanilla copped dwlee N4. So I was like ???? how when I jailkept her? I was a bit suspicious of Andante because of that, but she was pretty townie by dayplay, so I thought it wasn't worth outing my role to 1v1 her, especially since I didn't want to derail the VP lim or out my role just yet to make me susceptible to possible NKs.

After VP's flip, I thought maybe scum had used their ascetizer ability on Andante. And rereading day 2, I got the impression that VP and Andante weren't aligned.

Now that Andante has claimed VT, I have no reason to not out my jailkeep targets.

N1: Frogsterking (lol)
N2: Bell
N3: Cephrir
N4: Andante
N5: Menalque

[Cat Scratch Fever]

AMA

[Cat Scratch Fever]

What's the VC on Misty? I might vote her.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: misty

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I will if literally anyone outside of {Mena, Misty} asks me to

But i asked even before!
Why the fuck you even hiding this?

Sorry i missed it ._.

Ideally i wanted andante to claim before I claimed my targets

[Cat Scratch Fever]

okay, I think I believe Andante.

I jailkept Andante N4. The reason I didn't want to out my jailkeep targets earlier when Mena was asking was because Andante hinted that she vanilla copped dwlee N4. So I was like ???? how when I jailkept her? I was a bit suspicious of Andante because of that, but she was pretty townie by dayplay, so I thought it wasn't worth outing my role to 1v1 her, especially since I didn't want to derail the VP lim or out my role just yet to make me susceptible to possible NKs.

After VP's flip, I thought maybe scum had used their ascetizer ability on Andante. And rereading day 2, I got the impression that VP and Andante weren't aligned.

Now that Andante has claimed VT, I have no reason to not out my jailkeep targets.

N1: Frogsterking (lol)
N2: Bell
N3: Cephrir
N4: Andante
N5: Menalque

[Cat Scratch Fever]

can we just lim misty and let the prot claims sort themselves out tonight? like, we all agree Misty is maf, so we just lim misty. that easy

this is a good idea. if misty/mena is the team csf's jailkeep will stop the kill so at worst scum have to not kill anyone tonight

Unfortunately my role is lazy so it will not work if Misty flips scum

also i find csf's defuser case fairly compelling. i think

mena's ":i want to be defuser" post is weird for him to make if he's telling the truth about being a town protective and also understands what the defuser is

true!

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Misty not dead yet? rip

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think we're all just waiting for the Misty flip atp so I'm ready to end the day

[Cat Scratch Fever]

And Bell is waiting for Coachella to end so he can get the GuiltyLion content he so craves

[Cat Scratch Fever]

anyway, I guess I do have something to say

Pooky -> GL -> Bell -> Enchant -> CSF -> Dwlee99 -> Andante

Did you already explain why Enchant is so high up?

---

How do you crumb as scum?

And tbh, I'm still confused why you would think GuiltyLion or VPB were going to be nightkilled. GuiltyLion wasn't even townread enough Day 1 to be healed as one of

eight

experts

and in a hypothetical world where VPB was town, he was never going to be nightkilled, because scum wanted him alive for the WIFOM (since he had defused 2 bombs).

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Also Mena, I feel like your read on VP is all over the place:

<...>
My current reads:

town: Andante, Greeting, Andres, GL, Bell, CSF, Ceph

null: VP Baltar
<...>

you were nullreading him coming into Day 2 (although I distinctly recall you saying he was towny in the PT later... maybe during Day 5? I'll see if I can dig up the post later)

My current reads (update):

town: Andante, Greeting, Andres, GL, Bell, CSF, Ceph, VP Baltar, enchant
<...>

what happened between these two posts?

I feel like your arguments "why would I do xyz was scum here?" aren't that convincing because for a large part of the game, it did feel like you were trying to just divert from scum lims and it just didn't swing in your favor.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Mena partial quoting on the phone isn't working but about 5368:

- you didn't quote the posts where I really started thinking Andres was scum. I basically saw something shinier and moved there.

- i thought there was this collective agreement that defusers would blow up people we weren't townreading. Even though I liked VP's Andres push, i still wasn't townreading him if that makes sense

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Tbh last scum is a switcher

and i could see datisi putting in the four different types of protectives (jk, babysitter, doc, bodyguard) into the game for fun

That's giving me some doubt

[Cat Scratch Fever]

also, whoever that was like "all 4 maf said we elected defusers" like... why would only the maf say it?? if I see something being said here, I'll roll with it, like if yall are saying we're electing defusers, I'll say it too, doesn't make me scum, sure 3 of the maf said it, but ehhh not sure I buy that only all 4 maf said it

That was me

You could check if town made the same mistake. I don't think anyone else did

The mixing up defuser and expert case isn't that solid against mena as it was for morning imo, since there's a simple explanation for it if he's town (which isn't the case for Mt)

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Eh we have plenty of time, I'll reread this weekend

Mena you still have a night action tonight, right?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

yeah that was the "simple explanation" I referenced in [post]5647[/pos] if you are town because, clearly, a lot of people (including the mod hello Datisi) mix those two words up

but not a lot thought we could actually nom the defuser, which is a big difference

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I also felt VPB wasn't going anywhere as a wagon and wanted to go elsewhere

I think I also voted fireisred at one point out of sheer boredom lol

[Cat Scratch Fever]

CSF, not asking you to out but just want to make sure I'm not going crazy -- you are an alt of someone I know, right?

Yes but I haven't played on my main in years. This kitty account is my main now :3

I also felt VPB wasn't going anywhere as a wagon

why not try to get it going yourself?

I think I did try ;_;

[Cat Scratch Fever]

and for the second thing... um, would you mind showing me the posts where you think you did this? because I don't really see it from your ISO

Spoiler: some posts

I could vote either VP or fire atp

VOTE: Morning Tweet

VP I promise I'll skim through that game at some point tonight for ya,

main thing I'm just trying to see is if the style of asking a bunch of questions and posting random largely meaningless observations

(579 another one that pinged me much in the same vein) is fully in line with your town game, seems fire (slash maybe a couple others IIRC?) is vouching for that but just want to check it myself

I largely agree with this observation. I was kind of surprised that VP is second top poster when I opened up the activity overview, because I don't really remember their posts or recall their stances.

Keep us updated on the metadive

VOTE: VP

I could vote either VP or fire atp

VOTE: Morning Tweet

VP I promise I'll skim through that game at some point tonight for ya,

main thing I'm just trying to see is if the style of asking a bunch of questions and posting random largely meaningless observations

(579 another one that pinged me much in the same vein) is fully in line with your town game, seems fire (slash maybe a couple others IIRC?) is vouching for that but just want to check it myself

I largely agree with this observation. I was kind of surprised that VP is second top poster when I opened up the activity overview, because I don't really remember their posts or recall their stances.

Keep us updated on the metadive

This kind of looks like you just testing the waters of wagons that are semi-popular and saying your fine with either.

It's also pretty silly to be like "vp isn't memorable!" when your ability to remember things I've said and my positions is not my problem. Have better reading retention. I also don't know a thing you've done this game, but that's not an actual reason alone to scum read a person because I could say that about lots of players in a large game.

You may think my questions are pointless, but they aren't to me and how I'm feeling people out, which is all I care about.

Sure I don't have a read on Andres or The Bulge or other people, but they've barely posted or haven't posted enough for me to feel strongly one way or another

the difference with you is that you've posted a lot, but somehow your posts haven't stood out unlike the other active posters. My reading retention isn't the problem if I can remember other active posters.

I feel bad that I scum read baltar for their effort post.
The reason I am compelled to scum read it, is because their reads, read like characterizations first and sorting people second.

I'm always judging

Why is this your response to someone scumreading you for your readslist?

Cat Scratch Fever -

I REALLY don't like her trying to draft off GL onto me for some wild ass reasons like "I don't remember you".

Open my ISO if you don't remember me. Her saying she is fine with fire or VP also seems opportunistic. Need to read if she is having serious conversations with fire trying to find his alignment, because I didn't don't think she was doing that with me at all.

Me not remembering you is a sign that you haven't made any notable pushes, and you're here in the thread but not making waves. It's not that I haven't read your posts or parts of your ISO.

If you need me to describe it in terms of buzzwords, I guess "active lurking" is the best fit.

Why is this point unbelievable when Cephrir basically said the same thing about you?

I feel bad that I scum read baltar for their effort post.
The reason I am compelled to scum read it, is because their reads, read like characterizations first and sorting people second.

I'm always judging

Why is this your response to someone scumreading you for your readslist?

Because I think it is funny

do you think it's a fair assessment of your post? like does it affect your read of Bell?

Me not remembering you is a sign that you haven't made any notable pushes, and you're here in the thread but not making waves. It's not that I haven't read your posts or parts of your ISO.

Do you think you are making waves? cause like, I have news for you....

Terrible deflection

Also you have more than twice as many posts as I have, so not at all relevant

do you think it's a fair assessment of your post? like does it affect your read of Bell?

I don't think it's a fair assessment. I don't even particularly know what it means. But it was also Friday, and after putting like 30 mins into trying to sort generally where my feelings on the game were at, I wanted to go drink some beer and chill, not get into a back and forth with someone right then.

As far as how I feel about Bell, I don't know if it was a bad faith bit of shading or not. I guess I'll see what he does with it or if he wants to explain further.

I thought it was scummy to post a readslist and not want to talk about it, since that's the primary reason for posting one. Your explanation for not wanting to get into a back and forth right away is plausible though I'm not sure i believe it. Since it doesn't really move the needle for me, let's just move on.

Your scumpool is alarming.

The one point you made against me that was valid was that I have not engaged a lot with you, which is probably true. But everything else I didn't think was fair.

There's Strange who is kind of just always LHF, because he struggles with expressing himself. Idk if you've played with him before and I won't hold this point against you if you haven't, but this scumread doesn't sway my opinion of you.

There's Titus, who I think was sick or something, and confidently asserted that she sometimes takes a backseat day 1. Why would she lie about something that can be so easily fact checked?

For Mala - idk how to read Koba and admittedly, the longer Mala goes without posting, the more concerned I get. The time I played with town Mala years ago, I vaguely recall her being obvtown. But she also has a busy/stressful job, so imo give her a couple more RL days to get into the game.

Overall, it gave me the impression that you went like: "hmm I have CSF and Strange in here and I should probably have a couple more scumreads, why not throw Titus and Mala in here?"

The other problem I have with your readslist is that I'm not sure everything tracks - fire is town because you vibe with his reads. But fire's scumpool {MT, Menalque, Andres} doesn't overlap with your scumpool here, so I'm not sure how that ended up being town for you

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Enchant, why was Titus "blatant town"?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I will start my rereading tonight. This is a prodge.

Also based on skimming the last few pages, there are multiple people assuming we have 2 mislims. How do we know that when we don't know how many NKs scum have left? Worst case scenario, don't we only have 1 mislim?

8 alive today - D7
We mislim - 7 alive going into N7
We then blow up town (hypothetical scenario in which town!GL gets put up for bomb defuser) and scum NKs someone else --> 5 alive going into D8
We mislim again - 4 alive
Repeat N7 --> 2 alive gg

Tomorrow could be ELO or MELO if we fuck up today, right?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Enchant if you believed that, then why were you pushing andante

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Like i think it's very likely that scum rigged andante's group to blow up to chain miselims in that group

Which makes andante likely town in my eyes

[Cat Scratch Fever]

-_- ok

[Cat Scratch Fever]

not sure if anyone is still seriously pushing Mena but Mena/MorningTweet feel quite unaligned in their back and forth on the first 7 pages

VP Baltar's 166 also makes me think town!Mena - it's rare you see scum ask scum to explain read on another scum, very janky angle for conversation it puts pressure on the ask-ee to continue to post a plausible anti-associative read on their partner

I kind of had the opposite reaction tbh

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I only got to page 60 yesterday because i fell asleep, so I'm going to be here for a while after getting food

I looked at your quote wall Mena, and I'm not that convinced by it, since I feel like it's missing some context -- like people healing VPB was because lmao did you look at the other heal options we had on D3? And I haven't gotten there in my reread obviously, but I remember dwlee didn't start towning it up until D3 at the earliest or D4 so some of pooky's read changes can possibly be ascribed to that.

Also pooky's interactions with VPB and MT on D1 don't look aligned. pooky kept trying to engage MT and getting stonewalled by her. I guess if they were SvS, the explanation for this would be MT was just not confident in her scum abilities to keep an SvS conversation going, but it seemed more like MT was afraid to interact with pooky to me? I'd appreciate a second opinion on this.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I feel like it shouldn't be that hard to convince myself that one of Enchant/Menalque/GuiltyLion are town

But it is

So I'm not sure I can honor your request Bell. Can you summarize why pooky is scum again? Is it the AtE today or the stuff from Mena's case?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

my take on our hood is that CSF and ceph were towny, pooky was scummy, and VP was neutral

also we need to track NKs

no kill last night means scum should have 1 kill.

if they have 2, it means that VPB is confscum, or if there's an extra nk after tomo then it means that (VPB, n2 defuser) contains at least 1 scum etc

[Cat Scratch Fever]

He kind of lost his shit in GnG's Upick Mafia too: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

First 100 or so posts

[Cat Scratch Fever]

If pooky is scum, then I may not be

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I got to page 25 yesterday, gonna keep rereading from there for a bit as I lay in bed

Also pooky's interactions with VPB and MT on D1 don't look aligned. pooky kept trying to engage MT and getting stonewalled by her. I guess if they were SvS, the explanation for this would be MT was just not confident in her scum abilities to keep an SvS conversation going, but it seemed more like MT was afraid to interact with pooky to me? I'd appreciate a second opinion on this.

Which MT posts give you that impression? I've been rereading specifically looking for things that look unaligned to me and I haven't seen anything that made me think Pooky was definitely unaligned with the scums. And on a pure gut level 366 and 416 from VPB felt a lot like teammate interactions, though I know from a rational perspective it's prob NAI since I can imagine worlds where that's T-S

These were the posts MT didn't respond to, and it feels like she didn't know how to respond to them

Spoiler:

see how what is going to beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

did you roll scum or something

tweetie do you think I am "polished scum" ?

GL still lines up with my impression of him as scum

can you elaborate on this? what is setting off your bat sensors?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

- 595 hmm bad vibes here from menalque

This is the only other spot where I was like 'huh?' on your analysis.

Why does that post give you bad vibes?

again not the strongest evidence but I feel like this is usually not a post scum makes if they're partnered with Menalque

I'm probably biased, but looking at VPB's interactions, I feel like he only went hard against town in the first few days (me, Strange, Andres, tried to go on Titus a bit before swinging back to mala).

And looking at how VPB treated Mena with white gloves doesn't make me want to TR him. E.g. this post from Day 3 had zero follow up:

Spoiler: VP talking about Mena

VOTE: baltar

Kitty save kitty.

oh, and lastly that despite frog's (probable) relative insanity, his flipping town does mean that all of GL/andres/andante should be looked at again, and what frog said about the PT does actually need to be weighed

While I'm glad you're ready to look at andres again, I doubt froggy has much of value to comb over considering he seemed to have lied about his role and did murder an IC. What is your thought on greeting, btw?

Contrast that to this:

Spoiler: VP talking to Andante

yeah umm VP having 2 bombs worries me tbh, and going "frog had value!!! must read into it!!" is not something I really want to deal with... frog just trolled around in the PT why are you implying all 3 of me greeting andres lied about what went on??

Uh...this is not what I said at all.

yeah umm VP having 2 bombs worries me tbh, and going "frog had value!!! must read into it!!" is not something I really want to deal with... frog just trolled around in the PT why are you implying all 3 of me greeting andres lied about what went on??

Uh...this is not what I said at all.

You going to reply to this andante?

I also find your reads incredibly stagnant. You were on me D1, then you found a reason to get off me with frogster, now you're back on me. I think your strange vote lacks inspiration (and conviction since you voted with her like two seconds later).

I really don't know who you actually think is scum and why you think that.

how are my reads stagnant?

They're boring and unchanging based upon new information. If you would like me to cite a dictionary for you, I will.

He also didn't hardpush Enchant either I guess fwiw, so like this doesn't lock Mena as scum but I definitely don't think those easy softball questions in VP's ISO should be used to townread Mena

But I definitely got the overall vibe that VP didn't want to hardbus unless he had to (he did hardbus with Misty but presumably because he "had to")

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think a big question for this game is

a) If town!Pooky, why does scum put VPB into his hood on N1 after Pooky posts this pretty damning (in hindsight) point against VPB
b) if town!Pooky, how did he evolve from here to helping VPB defuse the bomb?

Menalque brought this up in his case against Pooky and I do think it feels wonky that scum put VPB in a hood with Pooky and VPB walked out of it alive, when Pooky was scumraeding VPB D1 and is enough of a loose cannon that I fully believe he wouldn't be afraid to vig a scumread

Is this at pooky or anyone in the N1 hood?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

N1 PT was 7 pages total

There was some initial talk about why Andres was an expert and catboi was the defuser. There was generally a good deal of talk about Andres since that was VPB's primary scumread.

Cephrir was lightly townreading VPB and leaned toward saving, but also his TR was not that strong so he was ultimately fine with either saving or blowing him up

I started doubting my scumread on VPB, since I liked his push on andres and I didn't think scum would put scum!VP as defuser.

pooky initially came in and was like VPB you're going to die
then reconsidered a bit after VPB started pushing an Andres/pooky team
I'd say he was the most reluctant to save VPB by a good deal

Mena came in last and said we should be defusing all bombs because this game is like SH (Secret Hitler, I'm assuming), and you can get some info by trying to defuse all bombs and see which ones succeed/fail.
He solved his part really fast.
I asked him if he knew about scum's 4 defuse alternate wincon after he already posted his solve and he claimed he didn't.

So Mena was first to post his solve, then Cephrir, me, pooky in that order.

i'll try to give a post-by-post recap of the important part that went down:

- Pooky came into the thread and was all like "VP you're dying tonight" (the "bluster")

- VP then made a post that could be construed as pocketing towards pooky

- pooky said pocketing him wasn't going to work

- and then VP started ATE'ing and said pooky was bad and referenced some Legend of the Hidden Temple game

- then VP said pooky was probscum in the very next post

- VP started towncasing himself and started pushing Andres/pooky as a team and accused pooky of doing nothing N1

- that's when pooky seemed to reconsider.

- next post, cephrir also said vpb was kinda towny too

so yeah, I get the groupthink defense that Pooky was saying, bc tbf to him, no one was pushing VP as much as we should've >_<

I don't think Mena initiated convo with VP all that much or really talked about his VP read in the PT. Instead VP was the one asking Mena questions (he asked Mena why he lolhammered fire and what Mena thought of Andres)

idk if this helps at all

[Cat Scratch Fever]

is it just Mena after all

have I effectively exhausted every avenue of paranoia around Andante/Enchant/Pooky yet before coming back to the obvious answer

lmfao this game is driving me up a wall too

[Cat Scratch Fever]

wait why is Enchant not scum?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I never finished my reread yesterday but I'll restart from day 3 with mena and gl flip in mind tonight when I'm off work

Also holy shit you hood people have nerves of steel!

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I like the new avi, Pooky.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

so scum has used 2 kills

we know they should have had at least 4 (1 at gamestart, 2 from VPB defuses, 1 from GL+Andante regardless of Andante's alignment), there's a world where Andante is scum where they have 5.

nearly certainly at least one was saved between all the protectives/JKing in the first few nights

is it worth trying to speculate what happened to the other one?

Idk if it helps but

N4 I was on Andante
There was no kill N5 since I jailkept Mena

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Spoiler: Enchant very early D3

What 4 defuse wincon?

I just noticed.

Bruh.

Yeah i just read modpost.

Pretty boring.

VOTE: VP

I am sorry.

Reading day 3, I don't really feel like Enchant is scum here.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

actually explains why Titus/Glion were made bomb defusers too

he probably wanted both of them to blow up

But he didn't blow them up though

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I blew up Titus.

Oh right. Although I still think that was the right play.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I don't think I would've spared GuiltyLion to be honest. I don't know though. Anyway back to reading.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Bell probably just had an off game. It happens

I think it's just Pooky too. Although I'm interested in hearing Andante's Enchant case.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Didn't CSF claim a doc thing.. that was direct CCs with Mena...

and the only reason mena was yeeted?

what happened to that

what on earth

and yes I am lazy jk

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Pooky did raise a point I didn't think of before; Frogster was unlikely to be killed N1 because he was probably in that rigged group

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I'll be

v/la this Friday - Sunday

weekend tripping : )

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I skimmed icebox's ISO from that Shakespeare game and it doesn't sound very similar here. He's wittier as town.

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I'm still good with yeeting enchant

Then make the case?

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Bells hydra

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Do you have some games where your reads weren't good as town

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Should I be concerned that you haven't tunneled anyone this game? Not as far as I can recall anyway

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Actually just remembered luke

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I figure GL and CSF will also care after mother's day

yes! I'm back from V/LA, and I never got to finish my reread yesterday

and I'm rereading today's posts right now because I've been skimming here and there

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No longer feeling like Enchant is scum?

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oof exams, good luck!

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Maybe you all think I'm wrong about Bell.

Talk to me - tell me where I'm wrong. Tell me I'm wrong about how the math works out. Tell me why you townread him. Tell me what you're actually thinking about this game.

It sounds like Spring Fling was an unusually good game for Bell (no offense intended - this is kind of straight from Bell anyway), so I don't think it's that fair to scumread Bell for having bad reads.

Also I do think Bell has a towny tone, which is maybe "subjective as hell," but I think my metareads tend to be pretty good and I focus mostly on tone >_<

---

The math stuff looks right about scum not needing to kill GuiltyLion (under the assumption that they can NK both tonight and tomorrow night) - but can't the same argument be applied to scum!Enchant or scum!Andante?

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Andante when you get back, can you explain how you went from dwlee is scum at the end of day 4 to VPB is scum at the beginning of day 5?

Spoiler:

VOTE: Dwlee

no. I TR nothing about Dwlee. Dwlee has only significantly changed their playstyle after pooky and I were like "dwlee has done 0 solving"

now dwlee is maf purposely angering me. whatever

--- end of day 4 with Strange limmed ---

VOTE: VP

Dwlee is town

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I also want to talk about Enchant. I think Enchant seems town by virtue of his D3-D5 posting; his progressions seem natural for the most part and his interactions seem very much not SvS with VP, but I need feedback from people. I can type up a more coherent towncase if that'll help people to engage, but here are some quotes:

Spoiler: Enchant very early D3

What 4 defuse wincon?

I just noticed.

Bruh.

Yeah i just read modpost.

Pretty boring.

VOTE: VP

I am sorry.

Reading day 3, I don't really feel like Enchant is scum here.

There's this and some D4 posts

Spoiler:

Also we kill in (VPB, dwlee, strange) today, no debate

Yep. I'm thinking strange.

Also i have guilty.

And yet....

I have secret info than one of VPB/Dwlee/Strange is mafia!

Doesn't seem SvS with VP

Spoiler:

Really, if he is scum, why even explode?

They have 2 defuses. Just silently make other scum defusers and win.

Then Enchant dropped his scumread on VP from day 3 and sussed dwlee/strange day 4, which looks bad until you remember Mena did the same thing. And the spoilered post above maybe illustrates why his read changed.

Okay VP momentally lost some points for me.

Some reassessment here after VP came into D5 avoiding the dwlee 1v1 (Enchant also unvoted dwlee for a hot second)

If scum can blow up everything, why they won't do it AT FIRST NIGHT FOR 4 MISELIMS?

I doubt it would be unlimited. That would be broken

How to ez win:
1. Force atleast one group of clear town experts on first day. Not really hard, just "refuse" to participate.
2. Make someone you dislike defuser.
3. Explode them.
4. Wow chain of 4 elims+5 blowed up.

And there's literally NO reason to make this ability "Expect for first night" or other shit. It's more easier for this ability to not exist.

also this post is just weird from scum? like it's too prescient, scum would probably feel more self-aware than to do something like this.

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I was also thinking about this last night before drifting off, and I thought it was weird that VP would essentially PoE himself by blowing Andres up. IIRC VP was kind of in a comfortable position; not widely townread sure but also not widely scumread.

Even if VP had successfully gotten dwlee limmed after Strange, I don't think scum would've been that close to winning with both VP and Misty under a lot of suspicion.

That makes me think last scum probably has some decent associatives with flipped scum, which kind of loosely rules out Bell and Enchant.

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like you haven't even given a single reason for me to be scum other than

"Pooky misread me therefore he's scum"

which could apply if I am always right on your alignment but that's not even true because the last game we played together we were T/T and I misread you as scum when you were town;

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=88783

Who were you in this game?

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like if people just want me to stop whining, shut up and accept the lim and they'll play the game tomm after I'm dead - I'll gladly stop posting and leave you all to it.

My play throughout the entirety of this game does not come from scum!me and I am happy to explain any stance, any post, any sequence I have done to the best of my ability if I can remember what I was thinking at the time.

Do you remember how you went from dwlee scum on day 3-4ish to vp scum on day 5?

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I need to be diffuser on even nights if I am one

This is a long shot but

do you happen to remember what you were thinking of fake claiming when you said this on day 1?

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Oh

It took me 8 game days but i finally understand fire's NBA analyst joke now

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You can not bother, it's 100% mafia make it in team and just pretend that they are town and state correct instructions.

HEAL: EVERYONE

Let's put scummy players in bomb team, so next night we could make lesser, but town one?

Enchant looks REALLY good from these posts now that we know what we know about Mistyx's role. Would enchant do this if he knows scum are trying to place four townies at the top?

Circling back to this but going through ISOs, i think enchant kind of looks bad through this heal analysis for posts like 1654

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Why, andante?

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^

Like the whole idea of "scum wants to stay far away from the bomb, here's a bunch of early heals on all people who appear to be town

, and I feel like that's a situation of scum knowing the town and thinking they're townier than they are, so it's pretty easy to later go "yeah I TRed them!!!" and also, it feels like an early attempt to throw all the big TRs in with the experts so that the next night scum can kill whoever...

This is more of a function of the fact that I couldn't heal myself. I don't think I ever objected to being made an expert. I think I even explicitly asked to be an expert with Frogster and Greeting at some point on day 1.

like, we all know stuff like this with the voting, you have to start whatever early, and once you have the votes on, it's just easy to ensure it goes through, like now I think only 2 people here are even healing, VC 7, and now, CSF wasn't healing anyone,

yet I think was one of the first people in the entire game to go "here's a bunch of people to heal"

mehhh I can see CSF as mafia

This is definitely not true, but you'll have to scroll through early day 1 to believe me since I'm too lazy right now.

VCs 1.02 and 1.03 were like 15 pages apart.

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and whatever happened to this doc claim? now useless since CSF claimed it?? this is way too many protection roles, I think the claim is on VP's level of unbelievability

we have 0 invests this game, why is 4 protects way too many? >_<

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I legitimately don't know

this is going to be a pagetop lol

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Enchant town or cheeky scum?

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Then we kill Andante for playing on our fears.
Fear is the mind killer.

??? wow are you actually maf here then?

VOTE: Bell

I feel like I should get over my latent paranoia of andante

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Enchant, why andante? Just for blowing up Titus?

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I really don't know how to read Andante.

Pooky, how confident are you in your Andante townread? Like suppose Andante were made defuser tonight, would you defuse y/n?

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I mean scum literally tried to frame Andante with a rigged bomb so how can she possibly be scum?

yeah, I guess if Andante were scum, I don't know why scum wouldn't just rig our group to explode instead on night 1

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(because that would mean group 2 was all town)

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I just have a hard time clearing people off of mech spec alone, and Andante hasn't been very townie today.

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@Dwlee it just means that if andante is scum, they would've rigged group 2 instead and would not have sent vp to group 2. I don't think you can conclusively say there's scum in group 2 by that metric