Application of WOTC
Forum rules
- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
ego from my mainFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
ahhh its simple. Its just rude!
I'm really not ok with the whole thing , but that might be just me. I don't want to argue over something I won't ever implement or use myself and when I'm not really ok with the whole point of its existence.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
I'm not saying you , who used WOTC as an option mod suggested you, were being rude to someone else or mod is rude for putting that option in signup is rude
I'm saying the whole WOTC Philosophy and core is rude. It makes us all look like a bunch of 10 years old children who can't play with each other. We are not children anymore!
I do think its everyone right for having a blacklist and to want for avoiding others. This applies to mods as well who want to see their games more fun - cause they put effort in building them. Its just not nice to exile others this way; We are humans and we proved we can be civilized enough to talk and resolve issues by trading and applying some sort of order in our lifes!
I talked to much I guess bye for tonight!False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
nah your not getting itIn post 24, zMuffinMan wrote:the idea that it is "ok to have a blacklist" but that it's childish to want someone out of a game you're in is contradictory
WOTC and all variants of it are designed specifically for enforcing "blacklists"
you saw children playing with each other? sometime they just throw one of them out of the game cuase they think their not funto play with. Thats WOTC.
What is the more civilized manner? to avoid the game yourself or to contact the player - not the mod - about the problem you have with them.
I do believe WOTM is completely ok as everyone is ok for having a blacklist. we all have our blacklists in RL and mods can make sure some people they hate won't be in the games their designing for strangers over web. and players are ok for having blacklist but they must enforce it themselves without putting a middleman as an enforcer.
But then as I said I really don't care if others continue doing this. I won't ever implement it or use it in any manner though.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
in other words "the enforcing method is rude" in my opinion. not the users , nor the mod and I'm not saying the fact a kind of enforcement must be done in some scenarios is wrong.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
I'm not convinced and I really don't think there is anything you can say to convince meIn post 27, zMuffinMan wrote:WOTC (and its variants) and its variants are about getting a player you don't want to play with out of a game. PMing a player directly about issues wouldn't necessarily achieve this
also no one who knowingly joins a game after another player should have any right to use WOTC (and its variants)
plus people in general are little bitches and WOTC provides them an outlet to avoid direct conflict resolution
you can continue doing your uncivilized enforcement method. I'm ok with mine. someone is bitch and won't out the game you inned first even though their on your blacklist? I won't play that game. I have no right for having that game - at least no more than them. I was just faster in joining. They have no problem with us that their inned after us. Now its our problem to reason with them and resolve our conflict or just avoid the game. asking mod to exile a player cuase you don't like them is not an acceptable manner.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
what a pitiful response ... such a ...In post 31, zMuffinMan wrote:the people who complain about WOTC are the people who it happens to and, well, look at the people who have complained about it, i guess...
no , I never got wotc'ed before just so you now , and I'm not afraid for getting wotc'd. I told all these stuff about WOTC the first time I saw it happened 8 months ago when I was playing my first games on site.
"and just look at the people who are complaining about it?" Just tell who are you talking about! jeez. Yes I was out of control during our last game. I have personality disorder, I was even confined in an asylum 2 years ago , I did try to suicide before .I have issues; and I was at 6th month of pregnancy when we played that game. I do applogize for my behavior there.
Anyway I don't consider you someone worthy enough for me to waste my time to even argue about whats right and whats not. and I'm fine to be blacklisted by you (and respectfully you are blacklisted by me) see? we don't need WOTC. its already resolved, isn't it? If anytime I joined a game where you were in before me and I didn't notice just pm me and I will out very reasonably. and I know you don't care that I consider you worthy enough - so you don't consider me worthy enough to argue about anything with me as well.
so why are you arguing with me?
edit :and just for completing this ,If your interested why I don't consider you worthy enough we may have a private communication about that, But I doubt it.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
Then don't make moreIn post 34, zMuffinMan wrote:the reasoning behind not making it public is something like "it creates more drama" but then you get threads like this where people who have been WOTCd or are close to someone who has been WOTCd whine about how bad a system it is
tbh i don't really think it matters - do you think people choose not to play with others for no reason? if not, then do you honestly think the people who get WOTCd don't understand why it happened? i mean, maybe there's some naive people who really don't understand why others might not want to play with them but the vast majority of people who get WOTCd know exactly why it's happening. it's why they use alts to avoid it and shit...
really, the only issues with WOTC are actually non-issues - nobody should ever get WOTCd by a player who knowingly joined a game after them and really no one who gets WOTCd doesn't know why it happened. they've probably been told by multiple people what their issues are already anyway...
I'm not talking in this position becuase I'm in danger of wotc or whetever the fuck you want to push. stop making that pitiful comment ,k?
yes I am a horrible person. I suck but my POV is not related to the state I'm in. This was my pov from way before even knowing who the fuck were you.
Player A is not nice to play with and player B don't want to play with them anymore
I said I'm ok with this part. That is resonable. That is FINE. Thats player B's right.
The way they enforce this (WOTC) is what I have complaints against. Player B is in game X , and player A joins it. That means player A has no issues with player B , now its on player B to decide if they want to give it another try or get out of the unpleasant situation. Player B has no right to get player A's chance for playing the game ; how horrible player A might be. If player A broke any rules; site moderation system will ban them and prevent them from playing the games. If not thats just player B's personal opinion about Player A.
Now you may say thats not fair as player A is the bad one. who are you to judge the bad one?False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
definitly not! ask yume that you blacklisted her or reasons X , Y , Z and you don't want to play with her anymore until those gets resolved. tell her that you were before her in this game and wait for her to leave.In post 37, KuroiXHF wrote:
I take issue with this part here. It's not that I don't like Yume. I don't know her. For all I know, she's a cool person to hang out with, have a beer with and shoot the shit. I don't know. Maybe, maybe not.In post 28, Frozen Angel wrote:asking mod to exile a player cuase you don't like them is not an acceptable manner.
What I DO know is that she's toxic to play with. Now if Mith came and presented an amazing "My Little Princess" Mafia that I've been /inned for a year because of a long queue and I've been so excited about forever, should I have to /out because Yume decided to join in?
Fuck that.
Seriously.
If she didn't leave then she is being unreasonable. now you might bring this problem to mod and mod might use whatever enforcer methods he might want.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
my issue that I mentioned before is that I was seeing everyone as my enemy and I can't see people freindly - which is way better nowdays.In post 36, zMuffinMan wrote:i mean, i "oppose" it in the sense id never use it and i think it's a stupid way of dealing with issues you have with someone
but really, the people who complain about it fall into one of two camps - those who live in an alternate reality or are deluded enough to think everyone can get along with everyone else and those who are personally affected (they or someone they're close to got WOTCd)
I am not complaining about the blacklisting , I am just saying you need to be decent enough to talk about your issues with the person you have issues with before using any enforcement methods and these methods if any must be public so the accuesed person can defend or talk with the people who has problem with him/her directly.
It might cuase drama yes. but its fair.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
WOTM is reasonable since the start moment of signing up as mod is the owner of the game.In post 41, Aristophanes wrote:
This is WOTC/WOTMIn post 39, Frozen Angel wrote:If she didn't leave then she is being unreasonable. now you might bring this problem to mod and mod might use whatever enforcer methods he might want
I am saying WOTC is not reasonable before talking with the person you have issues with and is being unreasonable by joining the game you asked them not to and as a hidden method for outing others.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
BTWIn post 35, hiplop wrote:only people who oppose WOTC are awful people to play with
nice one hiplop!
to just kick me in the middle of the conversion without getting involved with it at all! I owe you oneFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
no one! tell them they are not playing the games and their ruing the fun
ask mod to add them as specter if that suffice.
IF this is about Yume , Yes I am aware. she is a friend of mine as zmuffin said , but even me don't really like to play mafia with her (she was playing mafia before me). and she is pretty much unreasonable about joing new games. I'm sure she was banned from joining more than 2 games or something and thats pretty much acceptable ban for her. I'm not defending her. mods have any rights to stop her from joining their games.
I was talking about WOTC in general sense not in my friends case. You can't out someone from what they have as much as rights about as you do, you need to try to reason with them first , if its not working and there is no way to make peace , mod must make a judgement call about it.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
The same point I made can be applied for all of the playerlists in the game so the same applies to WOTC as well. everyone has equal right to achieve a slot in a game - unless moderator restrict some players - This is the principle I have and its what I call fair in this topic which you have a different opinion on and whoever uses WOTC and WOTO thinks that way. When we don't have the same principles we can't argue about the foundations logically.
That I agree with and I told it multiple times. When I moderate , I won't apply these methods - but as I said WOTM in my opinion is totally reasonable so I might make judgement calls as moderator to make game omfortable for the rest of playerlists. When others moderate I'm just a player who - according to the princple I mentioned above - can only talk with other players about my issues and if that didn't work resolve them by asking the mod to make a judgement call or by leaving the game. If other mods use wotc or wotm that's not them being rude (eventhough the methods themselves are rude in my opinion) and I as player will surrender to others will (and thats not making the other players rude as well for using an ability mod gave them)In post 46, zMuffinMan wrote:it's really up to the individual moderators, not you, how they feel about it.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
once I saw mod asking players if they have issues with X express them privately (after first request). without informing even who was the ones requesting that the person got wotced. We wondered for weeks who were the three people wotcing in that friendly playerlist and we didn't figure it out.In post 50, Papa Zito wrote:
I'm not sure why you're assuming this hasn't happened in virtually every case.In post 42, Frozen Angel wrote:I am just saying you need to be decent enough to talk about your issues with the person you have issues with before using any enforcement methods
These things don't happen in a vacuum.
It happens in vacuum sometimes and its just awful. some players just confirm they have problems with X and people like X to help the first WOTC'er out.
@shadoweh ,can you please show me a case when it happened completely privately without the players being informed that some are wotcing? I'm curios to see one example for that. That seems more fair cause it happens only in very rare circumstances.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
I'm tired and I really don't enjoy talking about this.
its just another topic that you all right about and I am wrong about by your definitions of right and wrong and we won't ever reach a unified conclusion about it and will just make me angry and exhausted and will give me a headache.
use your methods! I don't care really!
I love you all. good nightFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
thank you!In post 61, RadiantCowbells wrote:WoTC should be a thing but it should also be considered extremely rude to WoTC someone without first sending them a PM saying 'hey I don't want you in this game for reasons X Y and Z please leave it.'False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
I was trying with all my potential to say the same thing !False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
Your insulting that player if not . What your suggesting is unfair , not-in-person judging them without letting them being informed about their accusations.In post 64, Firebringer wrote:
Yeah, the only reason not to do this is because it starts drama and stuff where people go back and forth at each other in the public forums which is already been to cause bans before, so its not like this "unspoken rule" really does more but make the drama happen elsewhere.In post 61, RadiantCowbells wrote:WoTC should be a thing but it should also be considered extremely rude to WoTC someone without first sending them a PM saying 'hey I don't want you in this game for reasons X Y and Z please leave it.'
The drama still exists even if you try to sweep it under the rug.
Its simpler. It won't make any kinds of arguments but its stupidly unfair and obviously rude as fuck!False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
I won't ever play with that mod and player list ever again cause I count that secrecy a direct insult to me and my wit.In post 89, Vi wrote:
I keep wanting to pun this into "Elbirn" but can't figure out how.In post 88, Aristophanes wrote:
Ooooh Buuuurn! XDIn post 87, Vi wrote:
I don't think this is true, and I'm not talking about how many scummers have reached the age of majority.In post 85, Ranmaru wrote:We are all adults here.
But seriously, imagine what would happen if you were excited to play some game, but then some arse like me drew my long pointy nose to bear down on you and pointed an accusatory finger, loudly proclaiming that YOU SUCK on a substantial societal level. You would probably get remarkably pissed off and start a war of words that no one else wants to deal with. At least if I were saying this as the game's mod, I'd have some authority to do something about it (in not letting you play the game), whereas if I were some random other player I would have no power over you that could stop you from saying "then get your own game and leave me alone".
That's why I think it's best for the players to privately take their grievances to the mod and let them decide.
Ok , yes it will cause drama. Are you saying cause it might cause drama, we must just complain about how bad someone else is and accuse them and get their right for joining the game without even telling them why? and without even telling them who we are?
assume courts do this. There won't be any fights in courthouses anymore. Noone will now who is the accuser and what are they accused of. That is beautiful isn't it? No drama. Everything will be in its rightful place.
or not?
How dare you take someones right for joining a game without telling them why? That is not even cowordish... its not being human.Last edited by Frozen Angel on Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:33 am, edited 2 times in total.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
sorry for aggression.
Its just that I'm this solidified and tunneled vision in my opinion in this matter. Take my opinion or leave it. After all neither I know you , nor you know me. We are just a bunch of starngers talking in the internet about whats just and whats not.
Its completely ok to not achieving same conclusion and having different correct views with paradoxes on the same matter.
I'm not trying to offend anyone . not in my last post nor in any other posts I did in this thread.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
that is way better than resolving it privatly
your assuming the wotc'ed person is a sheep not a human beingFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
This is enough
This is redicolous.In post 98, Vi wrote:Also IME most people who dislike someone enough to blacklist them have either told this to them previously or seen multiple people they respect tell this to them. Post 95 is correct in practice.
Your arguning about something being just or not with me and you guys can't really stop insulting my understanding.
For the last time : No I never got wotc'ed. I am in some people blacklists though but they are in mine as well.
Let me give you an example. during one of the games I had , my mother passed away, and my activity level decreased in a game. Me and my mther got insulted and I got accuesd that I'm using RL excusses for lurking. I blacklisted that person for a long time. since like a moth ago when he tried to join a game I was in. I messaged that person asked him to leave and the return message was his appology for previous behavior.
And I forgave him. And I played that game and I let him play my game after that point.
Is there any darker colors than black? What is worst than getting insulted right after your mother funeral?
This is what it is. You are responsible for your problems with others. You must explain them to them - follow those problem - see if you can resolve them or not. If you reached this agreement to stay away from each other but the other person is being unreasonable You may use a middle man - in this case moderators - if not the current wotc is like running toward your mother and asking her to punish the bad boy who you have a problem with. You think it must be this way cuase we have minors in here? I'm sure this approach is not even considered just by 10 years old forward.
If you want to take someones right for joining a game (cause if their not banned or WOTM'ed by mod they have that right) You must resolve this issue with them directly or in a public manner - whatever is your choice.
back to the insults coming toward me. yes I might not be fun to play with. Whats your point? Are you saying cause I'm not fun to play with my idea about WOTC is wrong? Are you saying cause I'm arguing its not just for being handled privately (not in justified manner privately) I'm not fun to play with? Or are you stating that I'm an absolute peace of trash, better being ignored and thrown away inside a trash can and throwing it away in the middle of ocean - cause i am that peace o trash
I have the bravery to accept that though. Do you have the bravery to accept your wrong?
For the record I see some justice in a Completely private WOTC as well , where people who are not informed who is woting who , wotc the same person for same reason. But that's just imaginary I persume. who use that? Show me an example please.Last edited by Frozen Angel on Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
That is ok. Moderators can choose whatever enforcer method they want at the end. I accept and respect this.In post 100, SpyreX wrote:It's almost like the moderator is. .moderating.
The rest of the argument is about these enforcer methods justification. I do beleive WOTM is totally justified , the rest have some problem which can be fixed if
1 - every player who has a problem must try to directly resolve this issue with the other one cause if that other player is joining the game your in that means they don't have any problems with you (Its not two sided) so your responsible for the issue you have
2 - judging a more serious accusation (which can't get resolved privately) must be done publicly or at least the accused person must be informed about the whole story and the identity of the accusers.
They are arguning that this will cuase drama and I totally agree with that. Can we remove drama's and fights in courthouses? no cause the accused have the right to know what are the accusations and why are their getting exiled and loosing something which is their right.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
Again this will only backfire at me
no one is going to argue logically with me , all you will do next is to say "This is for the best!" and "only morons like you will argue about it being wrong"
so there is that. I got my answer, if its any of the above without proper reasoning don't bother yourself for writing them down please. That way I won't be forced to waste my time writing about my POV again and again and you will help me and yourselves a lot.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
Thats WOTM and perfectly fine and justFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
show me a fully annonymous wotc accountant.
the current meta of wotc is like this : player a pm's mod player b shouldnt play beacuase of x and y. mod announces there is a request for wotcing player b, if anyone else gas issues pm me. player c and d tell mod they have issues as well and b will be outed.
its wrong becuase :
- the reasons never got public
- player b dont know who are the accusers
- players c and d had no sirious issues with player b before mod ask them anout it.
so in my opinion :
- it must be either fully hidden or completly public
- player b must be notified about the accusations and the accusersFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
>.>
read my posts since the start and tell me if I was sying anything else?False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
1) I'm not supporting public shaming. I'm saying player B must know the resons. Don't tell it publikly in queue thread. But you shouldn't hide that detail from the accused and exiled player.
2) Its not something the accusers must have a talk about. Player B is getting judged and punished and he has every right to know why. You wanna prevent drama? Can you prevent drama in a ourthouse by not telling the accused what are them accused of? sure you can but its wrong.
3) They pm'ed the mod about it after mod reminded them. Their just supporting a case they think is on player B and want to support the WOTC becuase it might be legit and they don't want their game ruined. I saw someone getting woted in a player list who didn't know him mainly - can you explain why such a thing might happen? If it was totally private then multiple people reahed the same onlousion about Player B and that might, "MIGHT" means their case is legit.
As I said I am ok with enforcers. WOTM , Blaklisting , whatever ... WOTC is working. but don't fix what ain't broken? Thats wrong here cuase I'm talking about justifiations and human rights and thats what is not in the current meta of WOTC. Remember your taking someones right to play a game. Its like caliming a land is yours. we can do that in a barbaric manner or in a civilized approach.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
This is a form of human societies.
If they know that already, what is the harm in telling them again? beside showing your not extremely rude and coward.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
That what happens in human societies when you sentence someone. To avoid that you may have general rules for further (more crucial) punishments.In post 122, Accountant wrote:
Because it gives them something to latch on and argue and drama llama aboutIn post 121, Frozen Angel wrote:This is a form of human societies.
If they know that already, what is the harm in telling them again? beside showing your not extremely rude and coward.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
thanks for response.
1. As I multiple time said I said there is nothing against the mods or players who are doing games in WOTC manner. Plus as I said WOTM is not even ok but is just as well. Using WOT as it is has no issues by its own. Its an enforcer method and beuase its "modoray" is ompletly fine. My argument is about it being justified as well or not - I mean Doing it as it is , is not illegal ! My argument is doing it as it is , is rude!
2. Its not about the game or the way people sign up for it. Do you agree everyone has equal right for joining games? I do beleive whoever mod don't ban has equal right for joining the games. Now what gives the right to players for outing another player? WOTC will do that. applying WOTC means giving the right of banning to players. Now if you let them do it in the manner it is right now, Your letting them do it rude! thats what I'm trying to say.
3. I don't want to know what was its reason. show me a game when mod never ommuniated with players about the ongoing wotc and multiple players wotc'ed a player in the same time.
I do beleive its a bit more justified than what it is right now.
4. Are you trying to use examples to show how onstrutive might a WOTC be? uase if thats your agenda I must disapoint you. I know how onstrutive an enforement might be. I have no issues with applying enforcements on a player list. All I'm saying is that you Must tell the person your applying these enforemnets on why they got outed. WOTM is understandable as it means "Mod doesn't like you!" Its simple as that. no further explanation is needed as its that person's game and no one else's.
In WOTC however , Mods are the middle man. It is a Courthouse and mods are the judge in there. Yes the jury might find the aused guilty and he will go to prison for that! (get exiled from the game in this case) and its definitly onstrutive for him. Its just rude to have a hidden ourt when the accused is not informed suh a thing is going on and suddenly announce : Your out of the game cause some players hate you. Thats just rude!
If they already told that person they will blaklist / wotc them for reasons A , B , D then its ok! why they want to hide their identities and reasons now?!
The only reason someone hides something is for others to not figure it out. and Thats the rude thing.
and when I'm saying hidding I mean hidding from the accused person. the wjole process might be hidden from public and that part is totally fine.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
In post 110, Wisdom wrote:FA
If people were reasonable enough to not /in for your games after youve told them not to you most likely wouldnt have blacklisted them in the first place
Not everyone is reasonable, therefore you do need a way to forcibly kick them out when they dont understand
and I thought I overed this in my other posts. sorry if it seemed like I ignored themIn post 112, Wisdom wrote:(still at FA)
I think your issue is actually not WOTC itself, but that when you blacklist someone you should inform them of it rather than saying nothing and just anonymously WOTC the person out of games. In which case I agree with you.
But I don't know if anonymous WOTC without any prior notice really happens that often, does it?
I know there is a need for enforcers.They must exist cause people do what people do! but we must do the right thing and thats trying to resolve issues at first and then applying enforers in a manner that is totally understandable for the accused.
and yeah that is what I'm saying. My issue is not WOTC itself but the manner its getting used right now. and I saw it happened in my less than 1 year on site twice. Its just the current meta of WOTC as far as I can see.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
first : your no better than the people you alled trash then cause you dare to judge them as a trash in this manner.
second : no its not necessary to be rude. applying order is not being rude. you can either do something or do it right.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
not intending to offend just to remind you
you can't call a bumch of people trash for being wotc'ed from a mafia game. You certainly can't and thats just too much.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
no its definitely not
if you want to insult them , then there are more direct and better ways for doing it.
WOTC is an enforcer method punishing players for some bothering behaviors they might have and to keep the game safe from those types of behavior.
If you look at that as a method for insulting others then the whole argument I had is meaningless and the way I'm looking at you is changed forever.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
is marquis a trash?
or yume?
you know your diretly insulting a quarter of mafia sum players who got woted/ or wotm'ed or whatevered once or twice?
is everyone who get banns a trash? uase if thats the case I am a trash in your mind as well cause I did got banned once.
ok your god? How dare you all people trash in this manner?
putting this aside. no they are human and they are definietly not trash. They have their rights, alling them trash is totally understandable from the one who wants to deny previous fact. and they have total rights to be informed why and by what kinds of "trashes" are they getting accused and banned.
now tell me your logi please. that they have to be logially trashFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
sorry for lack of C's in my posts. C button of my keybord is working one in every 10 times.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
summarizing my last post
"who the fuck are you to judge someone and deciding if someone is trash or not?"
answer this and we shall continue this discusionFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
WOTM is definitly acceptable in any manner
read my posts k? I mean I told this 1000000 times thar mod can just say get out of my game! i didn't like the way you inned. and its OK!
but mods give the chance to players for doing this instead of them using WOTC. Now the story differs! It is still modocrasy cause a mod is judging the whole situation but that certain action (throwing "trash" players out - as you seem to like to insult them - (shrugs!)) is a democracy.
Now players must do it completely publicly when accused can answer or completely privately when noone knows what other judge thinks so the judgemnets are not influenced by each other.
Thats nore justified than the current meta.
now back to trash, no marquis was not a trash. He had a bad habbit and was repeatedly showing a bad behavior.
people who get baned for role violations are not trash! You can't insult people like this.
Yume is definietky not a trash. She is a great person. She do a bad thing - lurking in games - but that doesn't make her trash! You can use a more appliable term ....False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
They are saying that they don't like to play with that person. Their not calling them trash though.In post 136, Accountant wrote:Remember that it is not I who decides. I have never WOTCed a person in my life. But when many people WOTC someone, they are all calling that person trash implicitly. If you oppose this, you oppose WOTC.
and yes I don't like wotc at all but thats just my personal opinion. the rest of my argument is about making it at least justified.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
making accusations public will make the enviroment softer for them?
are you kidding meFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
ITS NOTIn post 140, Accountant wrote:FA, WOTC is WOTM.
WOTC can't go through without moderator consent. It's just WOTM, with the mod seeking advice from others. Even putting that aside, there's nothing wrong with players judging and kicking each other out. The "accused" has no right to anything, including knowing the accusations made against them or having their judges not influence each other. If they don't like this, they should try being not toxic.
see when WOTM mod says X and Y can't play my game and its ok and justified cuase the game is in Moderator's property!
now if WOTC happens with current meta
mod says if players tell me X must be thrown out they will be thrown out. Its democrasy and its totally ok for everyone by its own. but its not just!
I'm saying this ok thing is a rude way for applying this, for it not being rude you must respect that X who you call "trash"'s wit and tell them why their getting banned from the game.
You calling them trash is the reason you can't see the rest of my argument. That is a way for looking at the word though. and I hate that POV. Its fine anyway. noone said we can acheive one solid answer when we're talking about human rights and justifications of certain ations.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
then let them start arguments. Are you afraid for being wrong?In post 143, Accountant wrote:
YESIn post 142, Frozen Angel wrote:making accusations public will make the enviroment softer for them?
are you kidding me
they will use it as an opportunity to defend themselves and start arguments
Just eliminate quickly and efficiently without mentioning too many reasons.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
then don't use the term.
call their behavior unacceptable.
yes all the enforcers are to call their bahaviors unacceptableFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
Both are ok. The game is moderator's property so they can ban whoever they want for whatever they want.
The second is ok and definitly justified cuase the accused knows what might went worng. If players A , B and C pm the mod sepratly - whithout any circular or other methods of commuinication - that they don't like player D's avatar. Its totally justified to out player D.
The unjustified versions of the above : "I got pm's from the people and your out!" "someone(player B) told me they have problem with player D. Who has problne as well?"False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
Then do it totally privatly so the accusers don't have any kinds of impact on each other. or publickly inform the involved instead of everyone.In post 150, Accountant wrote:
NOIn post 145, Frozen Angel wrote:
then let them start arguments. Are you afraid for being wrong?In post 143, Accountant wrote:
YESIn post 142, Frozen Angel wrote:making accusations public will make the enviroment softer for them?
are you kidding me
they will use it as an opportunity to defend themselves and start arguments
Just eliminate quickly and efficiently without mentioning too many reasons.
I am afraid we will have the goddamn community cluttered up with arguments spouted by idiots who can't accept that they are so bad multiple people want to never play with them ever again
again you called them idiot, who are you to judge someone as idiot. a mod? ok then don't let the so called "idiot" to your game. your a player? shut up!False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
okIn post 151, Accountant wrote:Why are you so fixated on being justified in your actions? Nobody needs to justify anything. That's the beauty of it.
thats the beauty of what?
thats the basic Principle of humanity that we need to justify our actions to each other. Are you saying we're a bunch of wild animals playing mafia in here?False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
That has direct impact of the numbers of people who will try to wotc that people.In post 157, Accountant wrote:What is wrong with announcing that a player has been WOTCed and asking if anyone else has a problem?False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
This ^In post 159, Ranmaru wrote:
I think it's fine if the reasons are included, and if the offending player can appeal it by sending a PM to the modIn post 157, Accountant wrote:What is wrong with announcing that a player has been WOTCed and asking if anyone else has a problem?
if the reasons are included then they will judge the reason not the player
and thats not WOTC by its defiition. its a jury-like method for enforcing people - and that must require majority of the remaining players vote at least to be justifiedFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
Cuase thats not WOTCIn post 161, Accountant wrote:
Why?! Why is it so bad to let accusers influence each other? If I want X kicked, I want to convince everyone else to agree to kick him as well. Why am I not allowed to judge other players as a player?
Then do it totally privatly so the accusers don't have any kinds of impact on each other. or publickly inform the involved instead of everyone.
again you called them idiot, who are you to judge someone as idiot. a mod? ok then don't let the so called "idiot" to your game. your a player? shut up!
your saying if 3 people has problem with A , A must be outed. 3 don't have problem . 1 has some problem , 2 are confirming thats reasonable.
its not the thing you first defined.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
You can kill me right now and they will hang you tommorow.In post 165, Accountant wrote:That's not a principle of humanity. I can do anything and not have to justify shit to anyone! Nobody has the right to demand that I reveal my inner thought processes.
you don't need to justufy shit to anyone?False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
My whole argument was about its being fair or not being fair. If you want to make players happy then its fineIn post 169, Accountant wrote:
Dude the whole point is to judge, condemn and destroy the offending player. He's the one in the crosshairs, I don't see a need to give him a reason to defend himself.In post 164, Frozen Angel wrote:
This ^In post 159, Ranmaru wrote:
I think it's fine if the reasons are included, and if the offending player can appeal it by sending a PM to the modIn post 157, Accountant wrote:What is wrong with announcing that a player has been WOTCed and asking if anyone else has a problem?
if the reasons are included then they will judge the reason not the player
and thats not WOTC by its defiition. its a jury-like method for enforcing people - and that must require majority of the remaining players vote at least to be justified
It's not about what is fair or not fair. It is about making players happy, and if 3 players hate 1, as a matter of brute fact that player is very likely shit and will DEFINITELY make the game better for those 3 guys.
as I said their ok to be done the way they are.They are not justified though.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
We are humans and this is a part of a human driven society.In post 172, Accountant wrote:See? You keep falling back on the ideas of a court of law, of rights and obligations. I have 0 obligations to anyone as a mod, as a player or as a fellow human being, other than to follow the site rules and be generally civil.
Justification and fairness are all defined by the definition of humanity.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
Its really not!In post 173, Accountant wrote:FA, ITS OKAY TO BE UNFAIR
ITS OKAY TO UNFAIRLY EXCLUDE PEOPLE FROM A GAME
THAT IS THE FRIGGING POINT
but cause your shouting that's okFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
Its really not!In post 176, Accountant wrote:By stripping them of their rights to respond and stir up drama, by stripping them of their rights to play a game of mafia, you are sending them an unambiguous message that they are not welcome until they get their shit together. If you give them a chance to argue back or give them reasons to be fair, then you're missing the point.
WOTC is a *punishment*.
Its an enforcer to keep games clean.
and being rude to someone won't punish them! You can punish them when your fair and civilFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
That's not the definition of freedomIn post 179, Accountant wrote:No it's not! Humans can be as unjustified and unfair as they like. That's the freedom of thought and action, two of the most basic freedoms in the world.
and no they can't really.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
talking about liberal arts always ends up in fights like this.In post 151, Accountant wrote:Why are you so fixated on being justified in your actions? Nobody needs to justify anything. That's the beauty of it.
there is no way for you to convince me at this point , nor a way for me to convince you.
and we both are right and wrong at the same time. so lets ned this and catch up with our lives!False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
no definitely not!In post 183, Accountant wrote:
Like whatIn post 181, Frozen Angel wrote:
That's not the definition of freedomIn post 179, Accountant wrote:No it's not! Humans can be as unjustified and unfair as they like. That's the freedom of thought and action, two of the most basic freedoms in the world.
and no they can't really.
Are you seriously trying to put forth an argument for policing the private thoughts and reasonings of mafiascum players in order to create a more fair wotx system
I proposed the justified wotc version in my mind - eventhough even myself won't ever use it. cuase I dont like wotc in general.
thats definitly not independent on private toughts or reasonings of MS players.False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
And I'm going to repeat myself againIn post 186, Accountant wrote:I'm going to keep repeating this.
No mafia mod is obligated to be fair to players that might shit up their game. No mafia player is obligated to be fair to players who might shit up their game. If YOU get WOTCed, sucks to be you. You don't get the right to demand explanations or an appeal. You leave the game, because YOU have been judged in the eyes of your peers and found UNWORTHY by your other players and mod to play in the game.
yes! I totally agree. the unfair mathods are totally ok!
their just you know ... unfair! thats my whole argument lolFalse tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
I'm really tired mollie!
maybe tomorrow?False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self
"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie- Frozen Angel
-
Frozen Angel SheQueen Shifty
- Frozen Angel
She- Queen Shifty
- Queen Shifty
- Posts: 18255
- Joined: October 26, 2015
- Pronoun: She
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel
- Frozen Angel