Newbie 2059 - Scummer's Baking Championship (Baked Over)

[GrandpaMo]

Ayee first time playing forum mafia. By the way, don't mnd my PFP, it will get changed ASAP!

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: George Bailey

because he must clearly be trying to hard to come up with the perfect entrance :3

You are able to unvote right? because random votes in the beginning don't really mean anything? Or do they

[GrandpaMo]

what pooky said! at this stage if you have any gutpings it might be a good idea to vote them - it helps get the game moving

Of course you would sheep that logic as scum

[GrandpaMo]

Sorry I just wanted to really early game discussion; info that may or may not be used in future days etc. I will still vote since two people have voted so why not.

VOTE: skitter30

[GrandpaMo]

Jackson/ Fizz though.. their entrances feel a little off, just a gut read though, obv I'll want more content and it's not enough for a vote, but I'm already a tad sus there

On how much I disagree with you and agree with Fizz on how it is weird to base it of just introductions...I see how Jackson's introduction is actually off lmao.

Fizz's seems normal though in my opinion.

[GrandpaMo]

Sorry I just wanted to really early game discussion; info that may or may not be used in future days etc. I will still vote since two people have voted so why not.

VOTE: skitter30

so are you actually voting skitter? or is this a meme vote?

More of a meme vote just to correlate into what the other people have said. Why is that your mafia partner?

[GrandpaMo]

2 of yall find it weird to get a gut feeling off of entrances?

Jackson entered saying: Sup batch files, I have returned back to newbie games.

Off the bat, this feels distanced, gives off an "I don't care to find maf" attitude, feels very distanced in a way mafia would be.

Fizz's: Interesting choice of a mafia theme. Glad to be here, learning how to play mafia, along with getting to know you guys and girls too.

This also feels like something maf would say. maf likes to use a lot of words to effectively say nothing but make it look like it matters. "Interesting choice of theme" cause there was talk of the flavor. The rest isn't exactly bad, but the tone of it feels weird.

Then you follow that up with going: Interesting to base off entrances of the introduction on being a little off, not that it has anything to do with the game of course.


Are you trying to say that entrances give nothing? To a mafia entrances are huge. It's their first chance to towntell, first impression, they either completely joke around, or try to act mega serious off their first post. I told you I don't have a die hard scumread right now, but that's my initial impression, I'm letting you know, and seeing how you handle the pressure of me being sus of yall

I never had a problem with your initial impression. In fact I agreed with you on Jackson's first line of thought. I just never pay attention to the beginning until maybe later on; I disagreed because of my personal gameplay and how I usually try to decipher mafia and etc. I guess you have a good defense on why you did it and etc.

[GrandpaMo]

Sorry I just wanted to really early game discussion; info that may or may not be used in future days etc. I will still vote since two people have voted so why not.

VOTE: skitter30

so are you actually voting skitter? or is this a meme vote?

More of a meme vote just to correlate into what the other people have said. Why is that your mafia partner?

Well Skitter said: well if you actually think i might be scum for that vote me

so I wanted to see if you had a legit SR this early in the game, and what the reason would be

Yea that's fine. I just wanted to vote her since two others voted someone else to spark discussion. I also will use it as an excuse of reaction testing. No worries here.

[GrandpaMo]

I never had a problem with your initial impression. In fact I agreed with you on Jackson's first line of thought. I just never pay attention to the beginning until maybe later on; I disagreed because of my personal gameplay and how I usually try to decipher mafia and etc. I guess you have a good defense on why you did it and etc.

This is a bit +scum

not sure what the point of this is ?

Oh, I was just giving my initial thought on how I really thought of it because I actually like Andante's intellectual thought here on they are specifically trying to decipher mafia and stuff.

[GrandpaMo]

You shouldn't tell people you are reaction testing them when you are reaction testing them.

You should instead wave your arms in the air wildly and boldly and confidently declare they will definitely flip scum.*







*Might not always work

I was also talking about how other people would react to that vote and stuff. That's why I said "will" . LOL don't worry, I have a different way of reaction testing.

[GrandpaMo]

Oh, I was just giving my initial thought on how I really thought of it because I actually like Andante's intellectual thought here on they are specifically trying to decipher mafia and stuff.

it feels a lot more meandery/hedgy :/

are you partnered with JV? :O

I said I agreed with Andante's weird impression on JV on how that may look scum lmao.

[GrandpaMo]

I actually also want to give some towncred to pooky for scumreading me.

I feel like yes in my opinion there are better scumreads then me, but I think you as town tried to find the logic (even though I disagree with that logic; because if anything based on how everything went, you should be pairing me with Fizz not JV lol) on why I said what I said have a possibility of scum.

[GrandpaMo]

I said I agreed with Andante's weird impression on JV on how that may look scum lmao.

I guess the way I read it, it felt like you were agreeing with his statement but also kind of dismissing it in a way by saying you don't look at early game stuff,

it's like you want to defend JV but you don't? you know what I mean? :3

Oh I see. You are right, I did say that but once Andante pointed that out and I actually had to go you know check it out, then made Andante explain the reasonings, it made sense to me, hence why I said I agreed and stuff. I sorta see fizz's though? But I thought that was still normal imo.

[GrandpaMo]

Yea that's fine. I just wanted to vote her

since two others voted someone else to spark discussion

. I also will use it as an excuse of reaction testing. No worries here.

hmmm i'm not sure i follow the bolded?

I was mainly referring to what pooky said when I questioned them on if voting early was accetable and if you are able to unvote. Their response was more of random voting to "feel things out".

[GrandpaMo]

Right, but at the same time, it's unfair to vote for someone on day 1 when there's no evidence from games I've seen on here on who's scum and who's not.

You can still unvote can't you?

[GrandpaMo]

Ok so, post #34 from Grandpa, that isn't striking me as towny. Grandpa really backs off of me "I guess you have a good defense on why you did it" when all I did was quote the 2 entrances and say why I found them scummy.

I literally wasn't trying to defend anything, I was just pointing out why I was sus of them.

Immediately after that in #41 Pooky also mentioned something about that, Pooky is leaning town to me, Fizz and Grandpa are leaning scum. Fizz can not be suggesting a no elim out of a town mindset. Like, what is your plan for these 10 IRL days? not finding maf? like, we're not even guaranteed more info by choosing to no elim.

That was not referring to that. That was referring to the later post when you came out and defended your read on JV and Jizz lol. I thought that was a genuine good defense. I was the first person to townread you off of that.

I think you are still town. Pooky is leaning town for me as well, like I said earlier. skitter is null. I don't really have a confident scumread since I am waiting for the other people (who didn't talk) to actually come out with something and say their line of thoughts. M

[GrandpaMo]

Fizz can not be suggesting a no elim out of a town mindset. Like, what is your plan for these 10 IRL days? not finding maf? like, we're not even guaranteed more info by choosing to no elim.

The plan is to find scum, but not to vote on day one. How is it logical to randomly vote for someone like George for example who hasn't said anything yet in this game a logical town mindset? No, it's not. Need reasons to vote. I don't have any reads right now on anyone to vote for them. I don't understand why we have to vote for someone on day one, even with the eliminating reasons there.

I get what you are saying....but I don't think you should dwelling or arguing over this because I don't those votes were like 100% serious lmao and you are just digging yourself more of a hole leaning scum. For this interaction, you are either really scum for this because you are getting mad your mafia partner is being voted and you actually 100% defend them there. Or you are really town trying to actually play the game and being annoyed that the fact that there is early game votes. Still though, I don't think we should be dwelling on the voting mechanism right now. We all have a consensus that we are going to vote someone eventually.

[GrandpaMo]

I will also be stepping away. I have work from 4pm EST to around 10:30 PM EST.

I do have a question for skitter that I never got to ask. Why do you townread me?

[GrandpaMo]

Okay I am back.

I guess my words can be taken out of context and that can make me just naturally scummy lmao as said by many people in different areas of the mafia community. However, I just see pooky sheeping andante so hard here lmao. I won't focus on the scumreads on me as of now, as I don't care and I don't find it scummy of them yet besides that sheeping thing that might develop into an actual read later on. As of now, Jackson keeps finding a way to coast which is kinda lame because I really want to hear from them so I can perceptualize an actual read on them. I will be unvoting skitter for now to back off the pressure since no one has really focused on that other than Ahri I believe it was.

I will boldly say this as I love to do this when I am town.... I believe there is one mafia between Fizz and Jackson.

I do have a question though, how many mafia are in this game since its 9player?

UNVOTE: skitter30

[GrandpaMo]

@Andante

Mafia wouldn't be expecting this to become no-elim, if they had a hand in this. That's not my point. They would have banked on Fizz losing the argument on whether she should D1 vote -- with no support for her, and several townies signaling that she should change this because she's looking anti-town, and Fizz just not budging.

I strongly disagree with you that town Fizz would have given in by now, I'd argue that would have been more suspicious if anything -- she could have gotten some town cred by "reluctantly, but gracefully" being persuaded to join the apparent consensus on what's pro-town. In fact, I think Fizz has signalled strongly pro-town by keeping her stance, even if some more vocal town doesn't appear to support it.

I'm confused a bit by what you say though, Fizz/skitter argument? I don't think those 2 even interacted, why is pooky your vote? pooky has contributed a lot so far, so if you're trying to rxn, people like fizz/grandpa would be better, so what are you actually sus about with pooky?

skitter/Fizz interact in posts #61/#62. skitter tried to nudge Fizz towards voting D1, consistent with her general encouragement. Pretty light push compared to pooky's, but it's there.

I don't think skitter/pooky look very suspicious each by themselves. What gets me suspicious is their so-far complete agreement on what's pro-town/anti-town -- page 1 they bantered a bit about brownies and both voted; they've both tried to push Fizz towards voting D1; they've both agreed on strongly town-reading you. The only disagreement I've noticed between them is about GrandpaMo, where skitter says she has townpings in #60 while pooky noted a scum tell (#41), but now skitter has switched to Mo so it's settled for now.

I can't gauge well if that's because skitter/pooky are town/town trying to link up on common ground, or one is scum trying to cozy up to a townie who's building a pro-town rapport. Between the two, I think probing pooky is the safer bet because skitter had a vote from GrandpaMo iirc. I didn't want to run the risk of a skitter wagon, even though I'm not yet seeing who'd even jump on that atm.

At least one of them IMO is genuine town, and it could also be both. skitter/pooky flipping scum/scum would just be egregious, right with skitter/Fizz on the shoot-the-moon opening scale. I don't think it's that.

Hi!

what are you curious about?

What do you think of reading Fizz as obvtown -- does that change any read you have?

Looking back in the earlier votes... I just realized skitter did flip their read on me and eh Idk. You know what I might just open up my poe real quick and add pooky and skitter. I really don't know who is definite scum anymore lmao. I just see skitter/pooky and jackson/fizz. Possible 2 mafia there?

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: Grandpa Mo

i still like fizz, not sure scum fakes this or has this take

i was thinking of switching my vote to grandpa tbh

pedit yeah i'll do that too VOTE: grandpa

I'm swinging this way as well at this point

Sup batch files, I have returned back to newbie games.

pepega SE

Mood

admiration / thanks will be collected in the form of PayPal

thank you!!

Sure! I'll send it to you, just need your account username and password

s of now, Jackson keeps finding a way to coast which is kinda lame because I really want to hear from them so I can perceptualize an actual read on them

You can't actually have this pop into your head, after I've literally explained I was going to work and that I was going to sleep FOR work the night earlier. Your entire perspective is broken

VOTE: GrandpaMo

Sad thing is that I never scumread you because you were coasting lmao. I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional. I feel like this is a mafia BW. I am waiting for other takes from other people, to really look at more pairings and interactions with you because you did actually come out with info now.

[GrandpaMo]

Can you and pooky also give a good reason why you scumread me? Because I feel like Andante was the only one who had a logical reason in the beginning, I don't know if they have been opened to find a pair with me if they do assume I am a mafia. But, can you?

[GrandpaMo]

Another thing... No one answered my question which I geninuly am curious to know as it will make much more sense on pairings and stuff.

How many mafia are usually in a 9 player setup?

[GrandpaMo]

@Andante

Mafia wouldn't be expecting this to become no-elim, if they had a hand in this. That's not my point. They would have banked on Fizz losing the argument on whether she should D1 vote -- with no support for her, and several townies signaling that she should change this because she's looking anti-town, and Fizz just not budging.

I strongly disagree with you that town Fizz would have given in by now, I'd argue that would have been more suspicious if anything -- she could have gotten some town cred by "reluctantly, but gracefully" being persuaded to join the apparent consensus on what's pro-town. In fact, I think Fizz has signalled strongly pro-town by keeping her stance, even if some more vocal town doesn't appear to support it.

I'm confused a bit by what you say though, Fizz/skitter argument? I don't think those 2 even interacted, why is pooky your vote? pooky has contributed a lot so far, so if you're trying to rxn, people like fizz/grandpa would be better, so what are you actually sus about with pooky?

skitter/Fizz interact in posts #61/#62. skitter tried to nudge Fizz towards voting D1, consistent with her general encouragement. Pretty light push compared to pooky's, but it's there.

I don't think skitter/pooky look very suspicious each by themselves. What gets me suspicious is their so-far complete agreement on what's pro-town/anti-town -- page 1 they bantered a bit about brownies and both voted; they've both tried to push Fizz towards voting D1; they've both agreed on strongly town-reading you. The only disagreement I've noticed between them is about GrandpaMo, where skitter says she has townpings in #60 while pooky noted a scum tell (#41), but now skitter has switched to Mo so it's settled for now.

I can't gauge well if that's because skitter/pooky are town/town trying to link up on common ground, or one is scum trying to cozy up to a townie who's building a pro-town rapport. Between the two, I think probing pooky is the safer bet because skitter had a vote from GrandpaMo iirc. I didn't want to run the risk of a skitter wagon, even though I'm not yet seeing who'd even jump on that atm.

At least one of them IMO is genuine town, and it could also be both. skitter/pooky flipping scum/scum would just be egregious, right with skitter/Fizz on the shoot-the-moon opening scale. I don't think it's that.

Hi!

what are you curious about?

What do you think of reading Fizz as obvtown -- does that change any read you have?

Looking back in the earlier votes... I just realized skitter did flip their read on me and eh Idk. You know what I might just open up my poe real quick and add pooky and skitter. I really don't know who is definite scum anymore lmao. I just see skitter/pooky and jackson/fizz. Possible 2 mafia there?

ok good take

I see your 2 2/2s and I raise you

two scum in pooky/hand/fizz/jackson/skitter/grandpa/literally whoever the other two people are in this game idk their names

Well it seems that I might be the vote for this day? If I am. Please use my legacy reads I am usually right in my pairings. Honestly, imagine if Andante was right day 1 on how their gutping was just the weird impression they got off fizz and jv. That will be funny.

[GrandpaMo]

Another thing... No one answered my question which I geninuly am curious to know as it will make much more sense on pairings and stuff.

How many mafia are usually in a 9 player setup?

Check the OP, the game setup is there. It's a 2v7 game (2 mafia, 7 town). A random spot on the bottom three columns are selected, those are the Town PR roles (all other roles are going to be Vanilla Townies) and the Mafia will have the roles at the top of that specific column.

If I butchered this explanation let me know

Oh well that changes my perspective on something.

[GrandpaMo]

Sad thing is that I never scumread you because you were coasting lmao. I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional. I feel like this is a mafia BW. I am waiting for other takes from other people, to really look at more pairings and interactions with you because you did actually come out with info now.

Did I say that you were scum-reading me for me coasting? No, I didn't. I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.

Also the typical scum-tell of the 'lmao' has emerged.

Now I just feel like you are over reaching. I always say lmao,

lmao

[GrandpaMo]

Atp you could be scum.

[GrandpaMo]

I had to quickly get something out, as I wanted to be pagetop :3

[GrandpaMo]

Sad thing is that I never scumread you because you were coasting lmao. I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional. I feel like this is a mafia BW. I am waiting for other takes from other people, to really look at more pairings and interactions with you because you did actually come out with info now.

Did I say that you were scum-reading me for me coasting? No, I didn't. I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.

Also the typical scum-tell of the 'lmao' has emerged.

Now I just feel like you are over reaching. I always say lmao,

lmao

It was a semi-joke but the scum-tell is a serious one, and has been documented somewhere on the wiki iirc.

You also said you have blatantly said your scumread on me. Can you please again if you did because you did not and referred me to saying "I have said it multiple times". I expect a reply very soon not something for you to look back and make some random shit as of now.

[GrandpaMo]

Sad thing is that I never scumread you because you were coasting lmao. I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional. I feel like this is a mafia BW. I am waiting for other takes from other people, to really look at more pairings and interactions with you because you did actually come out with info now.

Did I say that you were scum-reading me for me coasting? No, I didn't. I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.

Also the typical scum-tell of the 'lmao' has emerged.

Now I just feel like you are over reaching. I always say lmao,

lmao

It was a semi-joke but the scum-tell is a serious one, and has been documented somewhere on the wiki iirc.

You also said you have blatantly said your scumread on me. Can you please again if you did because you did not and referred me to saying "I have said it multiple times". I expect a reply very soon not something for you to look back and make some random shit as of now.

This is actually manipulative.

And I've said many times that your perspective/mindset is not one I would or ever have considered a townie mindset and this also doubles down as one of my own person strongest scum-tells to look out for. You blatantly sheep another's reads by saying you agree to it, without actually adding any content for yourself, and then you cherry-pick the information to shade me knowing all too well that you knew exactly why I was not active. What you've said to me just now proves that. You aren't town, and I am almost certain

Problem is that you are wrong. You are now saying this now because you KNOW I will flip town and they will put you in the mindset that "hey, they hard pushed this person on the reason of this and this...mafia isn't more inclined to hard push based on that and rather sheep" But honestly the more I look into it... that's what you are doing right now. You have NOT explained my mindset and perspective on how what I did is actual scum. I do agree that I did sheep some of the reads and that is because I actually townread three people in the beginning two of which scumread me. If you look back... you can see I pointed out the possible "1 mafia out of this pair" type situation. I will be voting you for the time being.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

[GrandpaMo]

I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional.

This specific bit proves you knew where I was, or at least you're changing your stance slightly to not look bad, both of which are scummy and manipulative.

How is that manipulative??? I literally meant that because you kept leaving. I genuinely meant that. You did not give ANY info until days later in which were basically sheeps. That is why I was very skeptical towards the end there.

[GrandpaMo]

Once I die and flip town... I hope town realizes there was a scum in this interaction and it wasn't me but you. I am still openminded to other people especially in the POE I had which was Jackson/Fizz Skitter/Pooky. I really want to say there is two mafia there. It depends on who flips town or scum. I am also null on Ahri as well. By the way, what happened GeorgeBailey?

[GrandpaMo]

I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional.

This specific bit proves you knew where I was, or at least you're changing your stance slightly to not look bad, both of which are scummy and manipulative.

How is that manipulative??? I literally meant that because you kept leaving. I genuinely meant that. You did not give ANY info until days later in which were basically sheeps. That is why I was very skeptical towards the end there.

Because you specifically choosing the information to shade me with and omit the actual reason I was not active, which is manipulative as you're obviously manipulating the playing field to make me look as bad as possible. A townie mindset would have accepted that I said I was at work, or sleeping for work and that it's page frickin' 6 yet you ignore all of those things just to say I am coasting.

Because were you or were you not?? Did you or did you not leave? Yes you did. Hence I said what I said.

[GrandpaMo]

Also do some fact-checking real quick. Check the time of my initial post in AEST, woah it's around 9 holy crap. And check what time I went and checked in again saying I am working. Woah it's 6. Wonder what happened here

I never had a problem with you leaving! Lmao, you are just making yourself look bad here and actually overreaching on this specific quote because you have nothing else to scumread me on and I think that genuinely makes you look scum.

[GrandpaMo]

You have NOT explained my mindset and perspective on how what I did is actual scum. I do agree that I did sheep some of the reads and that is because I actually townread three people in the beginning two of which scumread me. If you look back... you can see I pointed out the possible "1 mafia out of this pair" type situation. I will be voting you for the time being.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Oh yesseree I did explain why your mindset is wack, in fact I did so in the exact post you're quoting.

Town Mindset: Solving, trying to actively find scum and/or town.
Scum Mindset: Manipulative, trying to survive, trying to make cases on Town.
You: Cherry-pick information, purposefully ignore information (which you know). Sheep then shade a LHF (at the time).

Which section do you honestly believe that fits. Also what the hell does that pair thing has to do with anything.

Trying to survive?? I do not care less if I die. I just want town to use my legacy reads. "Trying to make cases on town" Again BS perspective because town can do that as well. You are doing the thing where you are just trying to find info and something like "mindset' which is a very general and broad term which anyone can say someone has a scum or town mindset; hence, why you are making that read as of now. You are scum here.

[GrandpaMo]

Once I die and flip town... I hope town realizes there was a scum in this interaction and it wasn't me but you. I am still openminded to other people especially in the POE I had which was Jackson/Fizz Skitter/Pooky. I really want to say there is two mafia there. It depends on who flips town or scum. I am also null on Ahri as well. By the way, what happened GeorgeBailey?

You are acting LAMIST and you're appealing to emotion at the moment, both of which are scum-tells as a way to buff up your arguments against my own.

QUICK QUICK explain why I am scum again quickly so I know you're not checking back on your old post!!!!

I cannot believe you're actually being serious.
Also actually do that last bit

I WILL RIGHT NOW LOL! I literally told you many times that you have brought up ways especially general terms in which ANYONE can and quickly pivot that onto me because you already seen TWO people have that synopsis. You also are over reaching on a quote that never was meant to attack you or anything. You were overdefensive and only mafia gets overdefensive on something like that. You get overdefensive because you have nothing else to attack me on that besides that. You are exposed.

[GrandpaMo]

You have NOT explained my mindset and perspective on how what I did is actual scum. I do agree that I did sheep some of the reads and that is because I actually townread three people in the beginning two of which scumread me. If you look back... you can see I pointed out the possible "1 mafia out of this pair" type situation. I will be voting you for the time being.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Oh yesseree I did explain why your mindset is wack, in fact I did so in the exact post you're quoting.

Town Mindset: Solving, trying to actively find scum and/or town.
Scum Mindset: Manipulative, trying to survive, trying to make cases on Town.
You: Cherry-pick information, purposefully ignore information (which you know). Sheep then shade a LHF (at the time).

Which section do you honestly believe that fits. Also what the hell does that pair thing has to do with anything.

Trying to survive?? I do not care less if I die. I just want town to use my legacy reads. "Trying to make cases on town" Again BS perspective because town can do that as well. You are doing the thing where you are just trying to find info and something like "mindset' which is a very general and broad term which anyone can say someone has a scum or town mindset; hence, why you are making that read as of now. You are scum here.

You know exactly what I mean, scum is deliberately trying to eliminate Town.

You didn't answer my question, you're jumping around it.

I am rushing because I actually have to go to school and it seemed irrelevant. But I promise you, I will answer it when I get back if you want.

I will come back around 4pm EST.

[GrandpaMo]

I WILL RIGHT NOW LOL! I literally told you many times that you have brought up ways especially general terms in which ANYONE can and quickly pivot that onto me because you already seen TWO people have that synopsis. You also are over reaching on a quote that never was meant to attack you or anything. You were overdefensive and only mafia gets overdefensive on something like that. You get overdefensive because you have nothing else to attack me on that besides that. You are exposed.

You say you're rushing and cannot answer me, which in extension accepts that I did explain the mindset thing yet here you're denying it.

Also Town can't get defensive when they get attacked for literally having the inability to post? Just stop

Because I actually had to go?

[GrandpaMo]

.I see how Jackson's introduction is actually off lmao. .

I said I agreed with Andante's weird impression on JV on how that may look scum lmao.

Jackson keeps finding a way to coast which is kinda lame because I really want to hear from them so I can perceptualize an actual read on them.

Looking back this looks even worse than I remember. You're not only shading me, you're also blatantly lying.

I will boldly say this as I love to do this when I am town.... I believe there is one mafia between Fizz and Jackson.

LAMIST, also is this not your first game? You said so in your first post.

This is my first forum game lmao. I have played mafia in other communities though as I said previously. This proves that you are taking what I say out of context.

Back to the mindset thing. I never have lied anything about you, didn't even scum read you nor really focus on you. Just like how I questioned GeorgeBailey's presence, I questioned yours as Andante has said something about your entrance. I followed up with "yea I can see how that can be weird" then proceed to say that I want to hear from you (which I expected for you to do once you get back from whatever doing).

Coasting never aligns with me being manipulative. Not in any way I have tried to be manipulative. I was just game solving from a town mindset and actively searching for different reads because at that time, I did NOT have a distinct scum read and wanted to hear from you and your reaction to Andante and me hence, why I said the thing I said.

You are taking my words out of context and it just seems unbelievable. You are also hypocritical to the fact that you as well never answered my question in post 187. Also looking back when you said I didn't answer your question in post 183. I believe I did with breaking down each of your definition and explained why it was more of a fallacy and contradicting to define your mindsets as that. Yes, those definitions can be used, but I think in a more general context it is only useful, not in this specific interaction where you have scum read me because "I sound manipulative" where you have gotten overdefensive on something such as me calling you out as coasting.

Your second question made no sense as I already was responding to something else in that earlier post. Pay attention to what you said, specifically when you called me out on sheeping the reads. I explained my reasonings with my pairings I made which I believe I am correct on.

[GrandpaMo]

@GrandpaMo

Responding to "scum want to survive" with "I don't care about surviving" as you did is a textbook self-nuke for townies. Claiming not to care about survival is anti-town behavior when you're town. If it's true, you're failing at protecting the village power roles (either you're power yourself, or you're throwing away the protection-in-numbers that power needs). If it's a lie, town as a rule doesn't like getting lied to, either. Whereas scum really won't care that much about your trying to WIFOM role/alignment -- miselimination is miselimination. Scum are naturally less afraid of miselim, so more brazen when threatened by it.

You're coming off to me as too obvscum to be true, but even if you're townie I find your play decidedly anti-town -- this is not how to advertise your reads. If I believed in scum Jackson, my tells would be weak at best because I would expect town Jackson to act much the same.

I don't want to risk D1 ending by hammer right now, otherwise I would have put you at E-1. As it stands, make an effort to change your style, or I will most likely act on your word that you don't care about dying.

I will boldly say this as I love to do this when I am town.... I believe there is one mafia between Fizz and Jackson.

LAMIST, also is this not your first game? You said so in your first post.

He said it was his first game of forum mafia, not mafia as such. It's the same for me.

@Fizz

: That's an odd accident. It's my second post of three at that time, and I think it's the first one in the thread where anyone registers a town read on you.

It changes nothing about how I'm reading you as town D1, though. I doubt scum would expect to live long after arguing that D2+ reads are much preferable, and then not delivering markedly good calls D2-D3. Scum not expecting to live long means they're busing. A proactive bus on D1 seems wildly implausible (it's not usually a grand strategy rather than a reactive trade), and even if it is, Fizz is likely not the intended bus survivor judging by the scum tells she's drawn; townies who believe in Fizz = scum gain more from trying to find that one D1.

@Pooky

: You didn't answer my question (#147, at the bottom)

I totally agree with you. However, when you are put in a predicament where the other party (JV in this situation) has called you out on something that isn't true especially with the whole mindsets thing on how mafia is trying their best to survive and become overly defensive then your argument contradicts their stance; hence why I called it a fallacy really. (I explained in the earlier post) I really don't want to focus on JV that much anymore unless they do reply.

[GrandpaMo]

Specifically for HoG, I want to hear a specific read on me and how you feel about others so far.

Specifically for Fizz, I just want to hear your reads as well; as I have gotten nothing of you besides the whole voting discussion earlier on.

Specifically for pooky, I want to hear your reads other than me.

I also want to hear Andante's take on the whole interaction between me and JV.

I wish GB was here to give reads.

Ahri and Skitter, I also want to hear your finalized reads on everyone since you have kept discussing townpings and scumpings; more of a compliation.

[GrandpaMo]

Specifically for Fizz, I just want to hear your reads as well; as I have gotten nothing of you besides the whole voting discussion earlier on.

I did that in the last post before my mistake dude since I must've pressed quote on my phone by accident. Did you not read this post at all?

OK, I understand it's a game to throw out votes and figure out who's town and scum. I didn't know that was part of the fun on taking risks to vote whelther right or wrong. My apologies on that. I should really understand people before saying anything.

I was only stating I wouldn't vote on day one because it's too early to figure out who's scum and town which at the time when I last properly posted, I didn't have anyone to place in town or scum groups.

But now as we speak, I do, although I don't get why ahri is throwing out town and scum posts only without their reasoning for it, apart from quoting posts from before. I believe to think Pooky and Andante although don't get the entrance stuff being tad off stuff are town and grandpamo with his insane aggressive play, is scum. Possibily Ahri scum, but not certain on that. What catches my attention with grandpa mo is he asks why he was read town, but also asked why he read scum. Bit strange don't you think when he's most aggressive right now out of everyone. I leave this post here for now.

The thing is though is you're continuously spamming this thread, not really allowing people to have their say on the reads they are getting and we also need George Bailey to have his say on the situation as well. Although I just caught a post from grandma po saying he doesn't care if he dies is another suspicion to be concerned about, while addressing Jackson. It comes out as strange to me personally to say something like that when the aim of the game is to survive and capture scum from what I read in the rules anyway. Anyway, the other scum is up in the air at the moment. Is what I'm giving out reads at all or I still don't understand on giving out reads rule?

I just saw it now. I am the most aggressive? I didn't bother to really push anyone besides JV during that whole interaction; the only time of aggressiveness there. If you are going to call me out for being aggressive (I believe you are talking about with me and JV) then what do you feel about JV? There is no read coming from you onto them. I am spamming this thread? not allowing people to give reads? But you agree with me. I honestly think you could just be spewing lies just to continue this BW with me. You are also a sheep, sadly not the shepherd.

There is no way that there is not atleast one scum between Fizz and JV.

[GrandpaMo]

Ahri and Skitter, I also want to hear your finalized reads on everyone since you have kept discussing townpings and scumpings; more of a compliation.

i mean i think ti's p early to have finalized reads at this stage

but to summarize, i'm townreading hand of glory and fizz and jv
andante maybe like light-town
i think you're scummy

i don't have good reads yet on everyone else

Thank you. I just needed from this day so far not actual like gamesolve reads. I will give you a townread for compliance, no reason to hide info as town...

[GrandpaMo]

eh not such a good reason to give me a townread tbh

It is in my opinion. Town is more likely to actually comply and not jump around the questions and stuff and give a distinct answer. Someone like Ahri, never did but made a comment regarding something else. You see?

[GrandpaMo]

^ That doesn't imply I scumread Ahri though, just not a good enough reason to townread her.

[GrandpaMo]

i mean if i actively avoided answering you i would look scummy, no? and i would probably want to avoid that as scum

I am confused. Your sentence contradicts your next sentence. Is it (from your perspectve) scum to avoid that? If so, then that is literally what I said, hence why I gave you town pings for it.

[GrandpaMo]

I'm hesitant to out my exact read on Pooky, but don't worry, I'm not ignoring him, I just have a very strong read that I'm not sure I want to out yet.

A quick run down of where my head is.

Andante - Town
Grandpa - Initial scum lean, but how Jackson jumped on the Grandpa fos is messing with my head, so I'm not too sure here right now.
Fizz - I'm not entirely sure right now, you had a line I kinda liked, my entrance read on you was real though, felt like maf.
Hand - I genuinely can't read Hand, the posts are way too analytical, not really about interactions?? idk, Hand is a later read
Ahri - Scum, unless Ahri decides to make an effort to try, they are either scum, or town playing towards scum alignment
Skitter - Scum lean maybe.. very slight lean - your reads this game are like complete opposite of mine, which feels weird, you TRed grandpa, then flipped when I called Grandpa maf, so it's like, idkk, could definitely still be town though!! I know I'll have a solid read on you later, you're not today's elim. I also have a reason I tr you.
Pooky - I will not out my stance on you yet. I'm 100% confident, but me outing this info right now is not helpful to town. You're also not going out the door today.
George - I have 0 read off the top of my head, I can't recall your lines.
Jackson - You got a little defensive over my entrance thing to direct the game somewhere, it wasn't even a legit push sooo. I hate the grandpa read from you lmao, I want your interactions with others.

TLDR- I'm just ready to end today with an Ahri vote

I really like this. More reason to town read you in my opinion. And yes I did question how many scum because this is my first time playing forum mafia and I was confused on where the setup was. I lowkey even thought this was going to be a regular opened setup and not actually closed. I now know there is always 2 mafia in the 9player newbie games. (I am not using the "I am new card" trust me, I know that can be a pain but I am willing to contribute and give other reads.)

Onto more clarification of my reads: I still scumread JV, and it isn't even the fact of what we were going about (I mean yea I obviously scumread them at that time) but there is even more; just lack of deep reasoning and logic given by other people here on our specific interaction. This means really giving just giving no reads or any clarity on reads just based on this specific interaction. For example as Andante said, Ahri didn't give any reads on it besides sheeping of what pooky said on how JV seemed more towny in the interaction. Like why? Give me a good reason on why JV seemed more towny that makes me want to trust your judgment? As town, I want to know why you townread other people (I am not even being biased as you know I have townread two people who scumread me in the beginning, I currently still townread Andante). Give me then just "Oh they are towny". That lack of interest of defense or even just looking at it and giving reasoning and logic, just makes JV more scum imo. If I am assuming JV is scum, then their most likely partner is Pooky here. If pooky flips town, then it is Skitter. If JV flips town, then it is Fizz. I don't know if that is good logic, but based on what I have seen and the interactions I have witnessed that is the most likely scenario here. But I doubt JV flips town here.

[GrandpaMo]

Ayee first time playing forum mafia. By the way, don't mnd my PFP, it will get changed ASAP!

But... the future refused to change.

My current reads are Fizz as town; 0-1 scum between skitter/pooky; you've been anti-town; rest unclear.

If skitter is scum, you're looking much more like a misguided townie to me, but you've still been having anti-town effects in my view. You told Fizz "you're sheep, not the shepherd" -- but I think you're not picking up on town signals that, if you're town, you're probably not going to be "the shepherd" right now, either, act as though you could be, and should take it back a notch. Some of these could (IMO: almost surely will) be scum influencing you, but there's been too many for them all to be scum.

If it's pooky or neither that's scum, I don't give you good odds of a town read from me.

@Andante

I fell so far behind, and I'm too tired to catch up right now, Hand's post at 147, I was trying to process it, but Hand's posts are just written in a way they take a lot out of me to try and comprehend what they're saying, I'll probably just end up ISOing Hand later

I can't read any of Hand's posts, they're written in this analytical way, makes them so hard to read.

I genuinely can't read Hand, the posts are way too analytical, not really about interactions?? idk, Hand is a later read

You appear to judge writing styles notably often. Jackson and Fizz for their intros (#4 in your iso), Ahri generally, and now me. I was going to let it slide initially, when you were being more lenient, but you can't declare you're "can't read any" of someone's posts as town -- unless you already think it's not worth the effort, and that amounts to you calling quite strongly anti-town on me, even if AI. Which I obviously don't like. It's not the first time someone has said something like this about me, I assure you.

Or would you want me to treat you likewise -- I find your posts hard to read, in turn.

I'll give you something which I believe could convince you that I do pay attention to people's reads and interactions:

VOTE: skitter30

I think you and Andante are town on town.

[GrandpaMo]

I dont townread andante as much as in ffery's newbie
Could be like i'll get a bettwr read when they have time to play more, but this is how i view it rn

haha I know, I'm struggling to get to where I was in 2057, but also, that game, I entered end of d2, had lots of content, skipped yall's meme phase. I can't read any of Hand's posts, they're written in this analytical way, makes them so hard to read.

I'm here now though, about to catch up, but like, last night I was reading though all this baking talk, none of which is really relevant, Ahri spamming... yeah this combo of players is just way harder for me. Hopefully I find something

I feel like HoG's Contribution's were fine to me. Nothing really to skip over.

[GrandpaMo]

Ayee first time playing forum mafia. By the way, don't mnd my PFP, it will get changed ASAP!

But... the future refused to change.

My current reads are Fizz as town; 0-1 scum between skitter/pooky; you've been anti-town; rest unclear.

If skitter is scum, you're looking much more like a misguided townie to me, but you've still been having anti-town effects in my view. You told Fizz "you're sheep, not the shepherd" -- but I think you're not picking up on town signals that, if you're town, you're probably not going to be "the shepherd" right now, either, act as though you could be, and should take it back a notch. Some of these could (IMO: almost surely will) be scum influencing you, but there's been too many for them all to be scum.

If it's pooky or neither that's scum, I don't give you good odds of a town read from me.

@Andante

I fell so far behind, and I'm too tired to catch up right now, Hand's post at 147, I was trying to process it, but Hand's posts are just written in a way they take a lot out of me to try and comprehend what they're saying, I'll probably just end up ISOing Hand later

I can't read any of Hand's posts, they're written in this analytical way, makes them so hard to read.

I genuinely can't read Hand, the posts are way too analytical, not really about interactions?? idk, Hand is a later read

You appear to judge writing styles notably often. Jackson and Fizz for their intros (#4 in your iso), Ahri generally, and now me. I was going to let it slide initially, when you were being more lenient, but you can't declare you're "can't read any" of someone's posts as town -- unless you already think it's not worth the effort, and that amounts to you calling quite strongly anti-town on me, even if AI. Which I obviously don't like. It's not the first time someone has said something like this about me, I assure you.

Or would you want me to treat you likewise -- I find your posts hard to read, in turn.

I'll give you something which I believe could convince you that I do pay attention to people's reads and interactions:

VOTE: skitter30

I think you and Andante are town on town.

Wait that's misleading. I apologize. I didn't mean "town on town" specifically as in a scum reading context but that you both are just town (no reason to scumread) noting each other's actions.

[GrandpaMo]

anyways bad elims for today are jackson / HoG / the afk / skitter

mainly because given jackson / hog's playstyle it's so easy to mess up and openclaim mafia
and the afk / skitter haven't really done anything and are capable of a lot more

We shouldn't vote Andante[/Skitter/Fizz] (I see these two as a day 2 focus depending on what Jackson or Pooky flips) Bailey/HoG. I don't see the restrictive non vote on Jackson imo especially during that whole interaction, you should be at least open to be voting me or them. (or think town should pick a side). I am willing to vote Jackson or Pooky... maybe skitter (voting alongside my townread; and pushing the skitter/fizz narrative day 1 instead of day 2) if NONE of my votes get any attraction.

[GrandpaMo]

By the I did explain in post 242 on why I asked the question :')

But look at this pivot on Andante, weird.

Why is everyone being hypocritical ;-;

[GrandpaMo]

i mean sure that could be real but it also looks very similarly to how i've seen scum try to fake seeming new and naive and guileless as a newb-town instead of newb-scum

why is it a weird pivot and how am i hypocritical?

ur just reading too far into it lmao, i think its NAI if u do believe its a scumtell that i asked that question

anyways, who said i was speaking bout you

keyword "everyone" . stop being overdefensive.

now to answer your question... I think I meant contradicting

but first) pivot is weird just because i think both of you (i know that pooky townread them in the beginning) and instantly switched up as soon as ahri said something lmao. ahri >> pooky >> then just you skitter. that's how I saw it. i forgot hog's stance on them though.

and 2nd) it's mainly contradicitng, specifically for you skitter, is that you gave me townpings, then you scumread me after you realize other ppl do and what the content they do, then you vote andante (idk if you are reaction testing or what it is) but just inconsistency, same with pooky.

i said why was everyone being hypocritical because of earlier game. (mainly referring to JV) it was a hyperbole.

[GrandpaMo]

grandpamo did you say you played mafia elsewhere? if yes how long were the dayphases?
i'll get to the second point after you answer this ^

also idk what you're first point is trying to say. i think you're saying i switched because ahri did? i hadn't read ahri's post when i made my own post r.e. andante, so, no. i do think that andante is being weird.

3 - 20 mins lmao.

I think you should know what website im referring to, idk if im allowed to say it just for promotion policies and etc.

[GrandpaMo]

grandpamo did you say you played mafia elsewhere? if yes how long were the dayphases?
i'll get to the second point after you answer this ^

also idk what you're first point is trying to say. i think you're saying i switched because ahri did? i hadn't read ahri's post when i made my own post r.e. andante, so, no. i do think that andante is being weird.

no no, i just see everyone idk, like from my perspective it just seemed yall sheeped ahri. but okay thx for the clarifciation

im still voting jackson

[GrandpaMo]

actually im gonna do something...

UNVOTE: JacksonVirgo

VOTE: Hand of Glory

[GrandpaMo]

3 - 20 mins lmao.

I think you should know what website im referring to, idk if im allowed to say it just for promotion policies and etc.

tos? you can say the sitename so long as you don't go: 'Site X is the best site ever everyone come and play with me there !!!!!1!' like in middle of a game or whatever

ok so i was guessing something like very short phases - in a game like that, sure, changing your mind in a very short timeframe can be oppurtunistic and seem hypocritical - what new info could you have gotten already between this minute and then one?

but here, timeframes are like irl days, if not weeks, and often times, new information is obtained as different people post differnet things and react to different things. its very, very, very common to reevaluate as new things are posted. this isn't really viewed as hypocritical here, but rather that you're taking new information into account and reassessing based on new events

so it isn't really scum if someone changes their read and stuff? do u have reasons for the pivot? do u think andante is more scum then me.

and thanks @Cabd.

the website is mafia.gg so yea lmao

[GrandpaMo]

i think the scum team might just be grandpa and JV

i might not summon the energy to write out the case depending on how lazy i feel

i mean who am i kidding

i am like asleep off my sugar high from delicious donuts so i probably wont wake up.

woah bold ass accusation. how much i disagree wit u... i really like that from you LOL

even if i were scum, i would never try to bus as my first day playing forum mafia lmfao too risky for a newbie play like me.

weird take tho. really weird, but its funny thats why i like it.

i dont want to vote someone out who has been giving reads etc like hog and andante lol. there are way better votes then andante, i get why they are overdefensive as i would be too.

it really seems like im defending andante here hard huh? well idk andante to me has played very town and their scumread on ahri makes sense also to note is that they seem like an annoyed town. i better hope my read on you is right andante despite u scumreading me. i still null read ahri as they could really be scummy for lack of contribution or just really towny.

[GrandpaMo]

for andante, a few things:
- they feel kinda weird as compared to newbie 2057, which i just played with them. this isn't inherently scummy but is of note
- i dislike their hand of glory take, feels like an easy way to avoid responding/interacting with his content
- i dislike how they say there's scum in you/jv but then vote outside of the pair

i'm not sure they're *more likely* scum than you, but i feel like it's worth exploring

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree.

VOTE: Andante.

I can see that being my final switch for D1, though not because I would have given up on exploration.

FWIW i think grandpamo and andante can be scum together

Maybe.

actually im gonna do something...

UNVOTE: JacksonVirgo

VOTE: Hand of Glory

I'm not sure if I like this.

bad reaction.

also for yall thinking its me and andante ... i dont think mafia alligns that hard day 1. i mean idk if im being trying to scumsided wit andante. but imo they dont seem scummy to me. i still feel like there are better votes.

out of anyone hog, i thought u would vote someone else.

UNVOTE: Hand of Glory

[GrandpaMo]

bad reaction.

also for yall thinking its me and andante ... i dont think mafia alligns that hard day 1. i mean idk if im being trying to scumsided wit andante. but imo they dont seem scummy to me. i still feel like there are better votes.

out of anyone hog, i thought u would vote someone else.

UNVOTE: Hand of Glory

[...] i forgot hog's stance on

[Andante]

though.

I don't see what reason I'd have to be favourable towards Andante right now -- except one: skitter being scum while Andante is town.

If you think that's plausible, I want to know why weren't you joining my vote on skitter when you had the chance -- particularly if you've called skitter/pooky and Jackson/Fizz as containing 2 scum, and Andante as "very town". I told you a scum flip on skitter would make you look "much more like a misguided townie to me", but a town skitter would "not give you good odds of a town read from me" (#241).

And I think you've thought of a certain reason for skitter's switching to Andante like that. Unlike Andante, apparently. In fact, if Andante's confusion about it

is

genuine, that would actually look like a town tell on Andante to me; but I'm not willing to call that it is.

Bad reaction. VOTE: GrandpaMo.

im not voting anyone. i explained my reads.

im pushing more of the jv and pooky narrative today and can vote skitter if i want to. there is still like multiple days left as pooky said and i want to optimize my time lmao

[GrandpaMo]

can anyone giv me a vanille puffed sprinkled donut

[GrandpaMo]

Well I obviously missed whatever question you're trying to ask me?? The JV/GM thing? I think it's dumb to try and force our vote in those 2 when Ahri is annoying me by doing absolutely nothing except meming.

how I've been town?? literally look at my ISO... it's town reading the freaking game... town actively gamesolving to find maf. I was the one who got the game going with the entrance stuff. but apparently it means nothing to you

so you believe there's 100% a maf in those two, and you refuse to vote inside?

but rather would do a liability elim today?

am i sus too then

i think there is a possible mafia between pooky and skitter and probably not voting them today but like i said push the jv and fizz narrative today

[GrandpaMo]

I would be big sad if skitter was scum.

Good thing she is town this game :3

bad quote smh

[GrandpaMo]

why am i town?

I already put my solve in as Grandpa/JV and there's only 2 mafia in the game lol

that was still a scum quote earlier lol but uh u rlly think if im mafia bussing as my first forum game ;-;

if ur willing to vote jv. i will vote jv as they are my initial scumread.

[GrandpaMo]

even me, ultimately, bc i didnt get you were all mocking me bc i was trying to decipher a puzzle i was setting up for myself

this is real satire

what happened to your analytical posts that andante skips over lmfao

ur being like me rn and i dont like it sob

[GrandpaMo]

I would be big sad if skitter was scum.

Good thing she is town this game :3

bad quote smh

im still so paranoid about this, can anyone tell me if this sounds scum?

[GrandpaMo]

hog i'm a little confused about what you're confused about?
i almost feel like you're referencing convos that i don't have access too or something

either way in this setup there's exactly 2 mafia, and everyone's exactly the role they've been told they were assigned. all of hte possible setups are on p1.
the mod lying to you classifies as 'bastard' and a game has to be described as bastard well in advance of the players signing up for it
(and this game is not one such game, i can promise you)

you don't have to read newb2057 to play this game - i happened to be in that one, and so was andante, and was referencing things they said did there, but there is no pre-requisite that you read that one to play this one

fwiw i thought your analytical style was quite good

yea i thought hog's analytical style was towny. i even noticed the weird change that happened. but idk wtf is hog talking bout now. pls help misunderstand

[GrandpaMo]

The "I fucking hate this game" line is outdated btw, it was when I was still assuming this to be an authentic game, but with a meta I hadn't caught up on until half the town had covertly aligned against me. I think I love this game and I think you've all loved it too, or you would have stopped me earlier. Right? Just the facts and logic.

Since I am the only scum, you were all town, and you were

all

amazing. Even if that might be "brownie points" (hey, it's the wiki that says to have your scumbuddy's back). I'll have more to say a bit later. If you want.

VOTE: Ahri

man's playing in the wrong game lmfao

[GrandpaMo]

So explain to me you guys as someone who's never played mafia and want to get better at playing the game; how do you do reads? I want to help, but I don't know how to do this.

hi! yes! so in this game we try to sort out who the mafia is, and who the townies are. we do this by reading their posts and trying to sort if the posting is suspicious and/or if hte posts more likely to come from scum than town or not

as you've read the game, you've probably got a sense like: wow i really like post 918, and agree with it

or: you know i really don't understand post 509 and i'm suspicious of the motivations that player had for posting it

and then we vote the players we think are the most suspicious in the hopes that we're right and we vote out mafia

even just voicing thoughts like the above is super helpful

did you not see fizz's early game? i felt as tho fizz already knew what they were doing. why are they acting super new ;-;

[GrandpaMo]

Right, but at the same time, it's unfair to vote for someone on day 1 when there's no evidence from games I've seen on here on who's scum and who's not.

this quote seems like they know how to decipher and stuff

[GrandpaMo]

I like Andante's train of thought on JV

++town

agree!

also what made y'all pivot to a scumread on andante again?

[GrandpaMo]

I like Andante's train of thought on JV

++town

agree!

also what made y'all pivot to a scumread on andante again?

wait i mean just you.

because pooky is supposedly sheeping ur read (even tho townreading him), idk perhaps a pocket?

[GrandpaMo]

Ugh i screwed up the quote tags, sorry ^

why r u forcing pooky to sheep ur read? it almost feels like a guilt trip

[GrandpaMo]

@pooky you said this r.e. andante but like i really disagree and find this very unsatisfying

ok well I'll sheep ya if you feel like super strongly about it :>

referring to this, forgot the quote^

[GrandpaMo]

Well i wasnt really guilttripping him or asked him to change his vote, injust wanted to know more abt ehy he townreads andante and that's what i got back

bad reaction from pooky imo. this is the 2nd time pooky had a bad reaction first which no one answered my question to >:( and just sheeping u

[GrandpaMo]

I'm not like convinced the sheeping is ai tho

well im using the other scum quote with that analysis. idk if that read is geninue but usually mafia sheeps other people's reads even and just claim wifom bs like i wouldn't make it that obvious as mafia just to seem aligned with skitter or something and stuff like that

[GrandpaMo]

i really wish georgebailey was here... lurking isn't a really good sign. im giving u the benefit of the doubt. i think most here are. as to my reads... im still holding it up to par. jackson/pooky . fizz/skitter.

andante and hog could also have the same allignment here btw. im not too sure with ahri. im not reading ahri right rn alongside with georgebailey (lack of contribution)

[GrandpaMo]

i have the most non moderated page tops B)

[GrandpaMo]

but uh u rlly think if im mafia bussing as my first forum game ;-;

It actually turns out, bussing is a common way newb!scum try and blend in so this doesn't look good for you.

hm interesting, well idk. probably mafia could be doing that as of rn. i would be bussing u now omg

[GrandpaMo]

I would be big sad if skitter was scum.

Good thing she is town this game :3

bad quote smh

im still so paranoid about this, can anyone tell me if this sounds scum?

If nobody has said this yet, I do think that sounds scummy. I also think they look bad in the following interaction.

Spoiler:

ok who do you want to elim today?

The mafia.

yea me too

Good plan everyone, glad we're still on the same page

~
Pooky i think u can be aligned with andante fwiw

I am aligned with the town :3

thank u. u are like the only one who has answered my question. and i was going to say something about that weird ass interaction but i honestly didnt think of it that much thinking hey they are both expierenced and they might just be memeing around.

[GrandpaMo]

and also am i the only one that sees that if andante flips scum that it was most def a bus? like idk i just feel the weird pivots and stuff makes it look like a bus from either skitter or ahri lol. especially when andante scums ahri and ahri is using logic against them lmao, i think thats a 200iq play if it were the case

[GrandpaMo]

but i townread skitter so far, so idk. the skitter/andante interaction reminds me of me/jv interaction lol.

idk why but i fucking townread jv now more than pooky and its scaring me. i did say there was a mafia between jv/pooky. and idk how this shit is looking rn.

[GrandpaMo]

Do you remember that old PYP game where I was tracker(I think). Were you town in that game.

To add to this. I had no idea how the setup worked at all, but I was the #1 in the draft.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=83030

This one? Was town!

i actually skimmed through that. that was a nice ass game yall played. gg

[GrandpaMo]

George you've been promising content for like 3 irl days and have posted like 4 times- are you actually planning on posting or

thats literally why i was fucking saying how it could just be idk... inherently

scum

[GrandpaMo]

im not voting anyone. i explained my reads.

im pushing more of the jv and pooky narrative today and can vote skitter if i want to. there is still like multiple days left as pooky said and i want to optimize my time lmao

I mean, I still don't get it

VOTE: Hand of Glory

dont get what chief. is a self vote just like u dont know who mafia is?

[GrandpaMo]

I've always thought Grandpa is scummity scum :>

also i never questioned u for this. idk if u explained before but so look.

if u think im mafia wit jv, can u give me like why u think jv is scum? i never heard why and maybe me too (like updated reads).

im just curious.. i might use this info to gamesolve so pls take ur time wit these reads :3

[GrandpaMo]

and also am i the only one that sees that if andante flips scum that it was most def a bus? like idk i just feel the weird pivots and stuff makes it look like a bus from either skitter or ahri lol. especially when andante scums ahri and ahri is using logic against them lmao, i think thats a 200iq play if it were the case

yeah, so when yall flip me and I'm definitely town, then what?

i dont sus u grr. i doubt u flip scum tho, im still at it wit my pairings

[GrandpaMo]

you feel too explainy in an artificial kind of way :>

u didnt answer my question lol. i said ur updated reads on both me and reads on jv.

also that doesnt make sense, i told you to elaborate your reads but u didnt, so thats wack. i expect you to actually give me a good reply to this

[GrandpaMo]

I'm not 100% confident there's a maf in x and y?? please tell me where I said it... you all keep saying I said that, I have 3 TRs/town leans and Ahri isn't one, so byeee

So, my read with Grandpa, I'm not 100% sure here, but I'm 100% confident, if Grandpa town, JV maf. I'm just not entirely sure I tr Grandpa. I'm just ready to send Ahri out, let maf elim 1, give us less people to read in lol

You say it right here, and then decide to vote ahri, and this still doesng make sense to me

- you're not sure you townread grandpamo, and you think if he's town anyways jv is for sure scum

So by this logic we should be flipping gm (who might be scum), and if he happens to flip town, we should go after jv tomorrow, who in your own words is maf if gm is town

Yet two sentences later you're voting ahri. It doesnt make sense

Also, i dont believe you responded to 385

Pooky, jv, hog what do you think of this?

fine, I'll ignore ahri too and let ahri get by not doing anything. I literally don't care. like, I'll self, town doesn't need me if this is how we're going to play for 5 more days.

meh, you shouldnt have that mnetality regardless of scum or town. everyone pushed me and i thought i was playing really towny as town but i guess my playstyle was inhenrently scummy but i didnt give up in proving to town that i am town. u shouldnt either..

[GrandpaMo]

I just wanted less people to read in, and since we're being anti town, Pooky is not vanilla townie, that's my solid read, pretty much, if not pr, he's scum

there's something about skitter this game where I just feel like she is scum, like, she's super different... idk this is just dumb, I hate it. george and ahri aren't even doing anything. george saw this method worked with ahri, so he's just not gonna talk. I don't have a die hard town read. I hate how all of you look at me and treat me like I'm confirmed scum...

i dont:(

[GrandpaMo]

and also am i the only one that sees that if andante flips scum that it was most def a bus? like idk i just feel the weird pivots and stuff makes it look like a bus from either skitter or ahri lol. especially when andante scums ahri and ahri is using logic against them lmao, i think thats a 200iq play if it were the case

yeah, so when yall flip me and I'm definitely town, then what?

i dont sus u grr. i doubt u flip scum tho, im still at it wit my pairings

I mean, yall are literally all over me solely because I'm like "hey, just get Ahri" well I'm sorry there's so much resistance to getting someone who said they were memeing, and still hasn't outed real reads, just decided to sus me back...

well if im looking at it from their perspective. they sus you (specificaly ahri) because u wanted to scumread ahri instead of me and jv because u said there was a mafia between us. and skitter comes out and says they havent answered their questions and etc. so what is ur response to that? like why not vote me or jv?

[GrandpaMo]

George has 3 whole posts. lovely

fwiw the only time i see george bailey as town is that mafia is scared to push george bailey because it seems like they are afk and they dont want to seem scum pushing afks and stuff especially when they have tmi that they flip town and etc.

[GrandpaMo]

George has 3 whole posts. lovely

fwiw the only time i see george bailey as town is that mafia is scared to push george bailey because it seems like they are afk and they dont want to seem scum pushing afks and stuff especially when they have tmi that they flip town and etc.

mhm yet I'm town and pushing Ahri who is essentially afk?? idk what I'd even call ahri, but hey, skitter would rather have ahri around than me... sooo

nah ahri isnt afk

they are just weird

[GrandpaMo]

Yeah I can see where you're coming from as of course people do get busy and real-life sucks the drain out of things and I only have spotted two people so far in this game as scum, but I can't read town or scum with George at all. I can read you as town one hundred per cent. I honestly think the debate between George and Grandpa did get confusing and caused a mess on determining who was town and scum between the two. Na, I understand and I've not really lifted my end of the bargain, but I'm still learning to play better and trying to listen to you all. I fully understand going against people posting three lines, but it's all I have right now. I don't agree voting someone with three posts. I try and get more interactive with you all. I do get your point of viewing them as town due to being more active. It's all good.

r u town fizz

[GrandpaMo]

Votecount 1-10

With 9 players alive, it will take 5 votes to eliminate.

GrandpaMo (1): JacksonVirgo
Ahri (1): Andante
Andante (2): skitter30, Ahri
Hand of Glory (1): Hand of Glory

Not Voting (3): Fizz Raab, GeorgeBailey, PookyTheMagicalBear, GrandpaMo

The deadline for day one is set at (expired on 2021-03-31 00:59:36)

Mod Note: I have no life's work better spent than sniping pagetops.

Skitter is V/LA until the heat death of the universe (Monday)

i thought i unvoted? did i?

[GrandpaMo]

oh wait i read that wrong sorry

[GrandpaMo]

i was gonna get page top dammit

[GrandpaMo]

alright cool, since no one has given other reads, why not i step in and give my two cents.

HoG was towny in the beginning, Idk about now, I have retracted my townread and pointing to a null read just because of weird things they said earlier and just change of playstyle without any reason why. Also just to note, this is my opinion BUT I feel like when other members do try to make pairings, I think I am most likely paired with HoG here or GeorgeBailey (then I would be paired with Andante Ig.) [but I wish GeorgeBailey stayed to his promise] (also to note I was the first one to keep pushing GB to come out with notes smh!)... not as mafia scum but just the way we have interacted I guess? (early game)

My interaction pairing I had with Pooky/JV I think still stands... one mafia in them. And it doesn't look good for pooky right now. Yes me and JV had that aggressive interaction in the beginning, but looking back it, and reading thoroughly, I found that JV was able to answer the questions and everything just only weird thing is how it all began and it could again just have been over reaction as mafia or being annoyed as town; and that would be in the context of misunderstanding what I said about JV.

My other one I had with skitter/fizz. Skitter has been acting towny, but the push on Andante I do see that, but I also see Andante's view as well.

And last but not least... Andante/Ahri. Don't know how to feel about this. Possible 1 scum? I feel like this interaction pairing really depends on each other on who flips scum and etc. I geninually don't see anyone empowering scumness over the other. Ahri should be EQUALLY as sus as Andante if you guys are pushing Andante for that. Just doesn't make any sense not to sus Ahri just as much. No reason to townread her if that makes sense. (that context is more specifically to the people who are pushing Andante). Like I said if Andante flips red, most likely was a bus. But I have hope in my reads that it will not and Andante just flips town here.

TLDR; Pooky/JV, skitter/fizz, ahri/andante. don't know about GB and HoG anymore. one pair has PR with scum, other pair has both town. and another pair has 1 scum, 1 VT. POE/FoS so far is looking at Pooky > [Ahri > JV] (This can change depending what Pooky flips) > Fizz > Andante (This can also change depend on who flips what early) > skitter.

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

since george decided to sub, I'll give the slot a chance

so you I am assuming you pivoted to iso JV because no one gave ahri any attraction?

[GrandpaMo]

pagetop welcome whemestar

[GrandpaMo]

ANyone have a fast tldr of the game?

ima try:

so basically first early game interaction...andante comes out with a saying that gets the game moving; "jackson/fizz enterances are weird. seems something mafia is more inclined to say" something along those lines. fizz gets defensive bout ppl voting early game. claims doesn't know how it worked and moves on later on. i think 2-3 ppl tried to tell her it wasnt scummy to early vote and how it moved the game anways pooky alligns me with jv. skitter and pooky give towncred on andante for the enterence read and their further impression. skitter also gives me townpings. andante is questioning due to the nature of his perception that me and fizz are leaning scum in his eyes. HoG comes in and gives views about the skitter/fizz interactions in post 87 also pressuring pooky. skitter thinks now im scum (reason why in post 92) andante now votes me along wit skitter as well. ahri comes in with pooky and skitter talking bout the theme of this setup. ahri gives pings starting in post 119. HoG comes in 147 i come in after asking how many mafia there is as well as elaborate with HoG's reads (please go to post for specifics). HoG is collectivtly townread i believe specifically by skitter and ahri . JV comes in replying to some earlier quotes made and scums me as well. This starts the feud interaction between me and JV starting in post 162! (tldr of that interaction; we gon about how there is mindsets and hwo im being manipulative and i disagree and i think that he is, read more for specifics) .

skitter says jv is town out of that interaction. fizz now finally gets why the voting thing is good as well as his reads in post 199. HoG gives his reads on it as well on 201. ahri in 203 (agree wit skitter). i further reply to jv and leave it there and ask everyone else for their reads. in post 221 andante is trying to process hogs "analytical" posts but cant; builds scumcase on ahri. GB finally comes in 223 apologizing and then leaving again. jv then replies to my earlier further replies to his earlier ones. jv starts townreading skitter. the ahri and andante interaction plays out in mostly all of page 10 and beginning of page 11. i tr andante. HoG comes in at 241 with TLDR of "My current reads are Fizz as town; 0-1 scum between skitter/pooky; you've been anti-town; rest unclear."

skitter starts a andante scumcase. (mainly starting on post 278). me and skitter have a small interaction starting post 266. pooky still thinks its me and jv. skitter brings the point of how andante says that me and jv were scum (saying maybe one scum inside) but wants to vote ahri instead. skitter thinks its me and andante. pooky is unsure. HoG agrees with skitter and votes andante. i call HoG out *starting post 300) however I unvote HoG (was voting them at the time as a reaction). HoG calls me out and votes me. i explain my part and HoG thinks i had a good rxn now. Andante starts getting annoyed how ahri is getting no attraction. GB comes in 303 saying Ahri is town. fizz comes out of nowhere questioning why ppl think she scum in post 306. its now andante vs ahri + skitter . ahri and skitter both have the claim of what i said earlier on why they thought andnate was scum at first. HoG townreads me and fizz. skitter point out andante could be alligned with pooky. i call out HoG for his analytical post diminish. GB comes in 356 with a bad quote saying they will catch up on reads and apologizes for lurking. andante and sktiter keep going at it starting post 360. HoG comes out of no where and says some weird stuff that looks like it makes sense but it doesnt; townreading ahri more than andatne i am assuming. post 377 HoG keeps referencing something other than the game; everyone gets confused. me and skitter end up having a friendly convo. skitter now trs me . andante thinks my read that "hog and andante is most likely same allignment" is tmi. andanate is still confused on skitter's read. ahri votes andante in 409. HoG self votes in 411. JV comes in 412 with their contribtution (go to post for specifics). me and jv unironically agree that pooker had a bad rxn and interaction wit skitter earlier on around post 320. i come up with the theory that if andante flips scum it was most likely a bus. skitter tries to get other opinions on their interaction and andante's quotes. pooky still thinks im scum. andante gets more annoyed that ahri isnt being pushed due to lack of contribution. i state i dont sus andante. andante, fizz, and me push for GB to talk. fizz notices my chnage of playstyle kek. andante explains further in page 19 of his scumread. pooky sheeps sktitter then votes andante. i give my reads in post 480. i think everyone collectivly townreads fizz up to post 485 with andantes reads on fizz townreading her as well. andante gives read on HoG in post 484. andante gives read on JV in post 487; scumreads JV backs away from the ahri push. 498, U join! welcome!!

okay so it isn't the best, but its at last something. i deserve some credit, this took me 45 mins to an hour just looking back at logs and etc. i hope you found this helpful.

[GrandpaMo]

if i missed anything, or recalled anything incorrect please feel free to correct me or add anything else. thanks!

[GrandpaMo]

but it really feels like JV has just decided to tunnel GM.

I don't like self-meta really but that's generally what happens with me. I generally tend to hard-tunnel a player and don't consider elsewhere so that's why after I nice sleep after that interaction with Grandpa I decided to broaden my reads.

same LOL! i literally was like im not going to respond to you just so i could get other ineractions going on. later on you proved yourself to getting townier and townier and now i sus pooky more than you out of the pair reading i made.

[GrandpaMo]

I have the day off tomorrow so I will catch up then.

please also use what i said as a guide ;-; like i spent all that time writing that lmao for you

[GrandpaMo]

effort =/ town

effort definitely equals town when this game is dead af.

how do you feel about pooky? do you think pooky is more sus than JV?

[GrandpaMo]

lmaooo ready for my unpopular take which I'm pretty certain on. Wheme is maf, like, sure get me today, get Wheme tomorrow and final is in skitter/Jackson. I'm not saying this just cause like "omg they're voting me" no it's like, a pretty dead certain read. Wheme feels identical to 2057, and skitter is very different.

I THINK my town game and scum game are kind of similar but who knows I can't really self meta.
REGARDLESS of that I just replaced in and haev like 3 posts and im not caught up. do you expect to know how I have been playing this game?

if you haven't been caught up then I want you to. You shouldn't already be making finalized reads and be voting someone (unless your rxn testing / pressuring) that early especially when you said your self you haven't gotten caught up yet. I still want to hear about how you feel about the JV/ Gpa Interaction. As well as skitter/pooky. Also HoG as well. And most importantly, the spot you are in. Think of it as a 3rd perspective . I do NOT like how you just jumped in to the wagon of Andante that quick especially considering you didn't focus on to anyone other than andante. Just felt like you

tried

to find a way to sus andante and not actually look over. Give me your full reads on everyone else too bud. And take your time with them too, we still have a couple of days I believe.

[GrandpaMo]

I may or may not be missing something, especially considering 2 of you have played with Andante before, so I do not really know if this is how he plays as scum or is playing differently than that game. If anyone give me a TLDR of what Andante did that game that was towny contrasting to this game? Because I feel like Andante is annoyed town imo to the fact that someone coasting / memish is gaining no attraction (from his POV obviously)

I am also not a fan of meta reading even though I am guilty of it as well. But I usually don't result that as to my number one scumcase on them. I see how they are playing and what pushes they have made, and certaintly as JV says, "the mindset" kek.

[GrandpaMo]

lmaooo ready for my unpopular take which I'm pretty certain on. Wheme is maf, like, sure get me today, get Wheme tomorrow and final is in skitter/Jackson. I'm not saying this just cause like "omg they're voting me" no it's like, a pretty dead certain read. Wheme feels identical to 2057, and skitter is very different.

I THINK my town game and scum game are kind of similar but who knows I can't really self meta.
REGARDLESS of that I just replaced in and haev like 3 posts and im not caught up. do you expect to know how I have been playing this game?

if you haven't been caught up then I want you to. You shouldn't already be making finalized reads and be voting someone (unless your rxn testing / pressuring) that early especially when you said your self you haven't gotten caught up yet. I still want to hear about how you feel about the JV/ Gpa Interaction. As well as skitter/pooky. Also HoG as well. And most importantly, the spot you are in. Think of it as a 3rd perspective . I do NOT like how you just jumped in to the wagon of Andante that quick especially considering you didn't focus on to anyone other than andante. Just felt like you

tried

to find a way to sus andante and not actually look over. Give me your full reads on everyone else too bud. And take your time with them too, we still have a couple of days I believe.

That's why I haven't voted yet.

I thikn the JV push was weird. I don't really scumread you. It felt like a dumb 1v1 to me.

idk it just seemed like u were finalized. and okay thank you, tell me bout othersss pwease;(

[GrandpaMo]

Grandpa being a lot more calmer with his gameplay

Thanks for this fam, I now has a question for Grandpamo.
Is there a reason you now have a complete tonal shift?

i actually was going to answer that later when i looked back giving the tldr of wheemie (also cuz i witnessed it too) but basically i realized that like tonality/style is much nai on forum mafia lol and also i just got lazy to just keep doing it every single time. so it is whatever i right. like earlier, i gave my more formal tone but this one it is semi formal. it just happen to be that it doesn't matter for me anymore. ik long response for an expected 1 answer thing but oh well

[GrandpaMo]

write*

[GrandpaMo]

Grandpa, do a quick solid for me.

Where do I stand in your reads. You keep saying I have gotten townier etc etc but then you still SR me but less than Pooky yes?

yes so basically my parings WERE originally skitter/pooky and fizz/jv i believe if i recall correctly. i was basically saying how there was 1 mafia at that time. afte rour interaction,i realized that hey it could just now be switched up optimally to pooky/jv and skitter/fizz. and scumteam could just be both pooky and jv. but then later on the days, you acted more towny in response to our second very little interaction as well ur response to other ppl including rn to andante's iso reads on you and i realizezd that pooky was way more genearlly scum than you. yes they have contributed but they seemed to sheep what skitter says, not giv any really other good reads other than on me and u (thinking we are alligned) and just overall lack of contribtuion. pooky's early game was good tho, but then later after me and jv's interaction died down, you jv just started acting townier (and that may have been because we werent tunneling each other and now i was finally seeing ur other reads open up etc.)

so if i am basically looking at pooky/jv... i thought pooky was more scum in that pair.

[GrandpaMo]

.

[GrandpaMo]

pagetop

[GrandpaMo]

Replying to Andante's wallpost in 487. My responses in

Bolded Red

Spoiler:

sorry this is so long...

JacksonVirgo: 43 ISO posts, LOTS of quotes and responding to quotes.

Is this a problem? You're making it out that it is

2 people vote Grandpa, and Jackson goes “I’m swinging this way as well at this point” - #162 with no interactions directed at Grandpa before that, then in #162 Jackson votes Grandpa after yelling that they were gonna sleep/go to work?? I do believe Jackson was genuinely mad, but like, it’s weird. #167 Jackson says “I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.” But all Jackson has really SAID about/to grandpa was explained the setup, and got mad at GM cause Jackson said they were gonna go to bed/work, yet assumes they have to stick around and talk to GM??
You are aware you can just walk away and resume whenever right??

Depending on how busy my life is at the time, I sometimes can't get super into a game until later which leads to me reading but not posting, which happened until Grandpa heavy-duty caught my radar. You're also taking my words out of context here. Grandpa was omitting information that was making me look bad, of which I wasn't going to accept so of course I attacked back. I explained many times about the mindset thing so why are you choosing to ignore that. I do not like leaving stones unturned when I play, get used to my playstyle or yeet me.

~~ I see why yall wanted me to react to this exchange earlier lmao ~~
Just reading this, Jackson feels mad/annoyed at GM for the questions. GM asked for a reason for a read, and in #168 you go “I’ve given one, rather blatantly if I do say so myself” then in #169 JV scumreads GM for saying lmao.
Like, I could see this as town conf biased Grandpa is scum, but it really feels like JV has just decided to tunnel GM.
In #179, I find this really interesting, JV calls GM manipulative, then talks about GM sheeping another’s read without adding to it, then picking info to make JV look bad. I haven’t ISOd GM yet, but this reaction to GM wondering the reason JV SRs them? The #179 paragraph is just a very generic thing, it’s not even like “you said this here, and changed the context here” Town or Maf, Jackson feels like they aren’t even going to consider a Grandpa town world, which makes me lean JV scum, but I’ll keep reading.
#180 Jackson still seems mad about being “expected to be there when they previously said they wouldn’t be” like, this type of anger isn’t alignment indicative, but I do kinda SR the fact JV has so many posts about it, when you could literally just walk away any moment and return later, and no one will care.

I was very frustrated with having to deal with what Grandpa was doing, yes. Your response to my 169 is weak and seems overly shady, tbh it's not even a response it's just reiterating what was done with no input of your own. Repeating again, me deadass tunneling a player without looking elsewhere is a bad habit of mine, even if I am right I am trying not to do so. Again, you're attacking something that's just my
playstyle, so stop.

#183 JV explains a town vs scum mindset, and I’ll add, a town mindset would be trying to find maf/acknowledging your read might not be right, cause JV has just been tunneling Grandpa, granted GM is probably the only one speaking right now, but posts like this kinda just reaffirm that your only goal is to tunnel GM, I kinda agree with GM’s #181 JV hasn’t explained the GM specific things, just keeps talking in general terms.
#186 JV is still yelling about being in the forum longer than they wanted?
Again, you are more than welcome to walk away whenever, we have 7 IRL days for d2/3/4
JV asking GM about maf experience… as if that will change anything about this little situation… I’m trying to not make a super long post here lol I know yall aren’t gonna want to read this
#227 FINALLY a post not to GM, JV responds to Fizz about spamming the thread, which in my opinion is a really weird post to respond to lol especially going “I don’t think this is AI” like, I think in that content, it definitely pointed more to JV scum GM town, like, also based on what I remember people saying, others agreed with that, and I really see it.
#229 “I have a surface level TR on skitz because their entrance” this comment feels really out there. Just had this huge exchange with GM about how you need reasons.. also in #160 basically told me reading entrances was bad, but if JV does it, it’s ok!!

Acknowledging a read may/may not be right is a personality thing and/or confidence thing so I disagree with you. 186 you're completely misrepresenting/misunderstanding there. I am proving that I was not just bullshitting my way out of posting like Grandpa was making out I was doing. And I am ALLOWED to ask people for experience, I was trying to fucking gauge them. Now I'm lowkey getting mad. I do not care if any of my posts are "out there", I've explained what I did and I am not going to again.

****
#298 makes a point to go back to skitter about the entrance? This exchange with the 2 feels really weird. I was a tad sus of skit before, and this makes it feel like “I need to force an interaction with my partner” it’s so significant, I’ll actually quote it below.

I have a surface level TR on skitz mainly because their entrance felt ballsy in a sense scum wouldn't try. Also the fact they don't have an issue with switching reads, scum tend to stick to it as to not feel opportunistic.

Oh? How was it ballsy?

It just seems overly, hype/exciting in a way that seems too risky for scum to do as it may appear as pockety.

*****
#412 is another post just speaking in general, and not really directed at anyone “scum would do this…”
#413 – JV knows I’m town likely from TMI but I’ll take a tr right now
#423- I mean, if you ISO Glory, Glory’s lines are fine, definitely not bad.

You're making associative reads before any flips happen, which is generally bad practice as you're >rand wrong when you do that. Just stick to singular reads and go from flips, trust me on that one. I hate the fact you're shading me for 413 which is legitimately LAMIST, and I no longer town-lean you. It's actually quite funny how big your contradiction here is though, you said a town mindset is knowing your reads may not be right, but here you are fairly certain on me/skitter being scum (more specifically me here) and yeah, according to your very own logic you are scum. Congrats fam

so im assuming u hopping on the andante wagon too? man idk, i dont wanna feel pressured. im scared that andanate actually flips scum but like am i really the only one who townreads them???

[GrandpaMo]

you dont have to work out exactly who is bad and who is good fizz

its just guessing and laying out your thought process

nothing bad about being wrong

every1 gets things wrong :2


we get better by trying

why are you referencing something that happened around 200 posts ago?.... didn't you already respond to fizz before.

VOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear

[GrandpaMo]

Hmmmm

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

have you gotten reads yet?

[GrandpaMo]

lmaooo ready for my unpopular take which I'm pretty certain on. Wheme is maf, like, sure get me today, get Wheme tomorrow and final is in skitter/Jackson. I'm not saying this just cause like "omg they're voting me" no it's like, a pretty dead certain read. Wheme feels identical to 2057, and skitter is very different.

I THINK my town game and scum game are kind of similar but who knows I can't really self meta.
REGARDLESS of that I just replaced in and haev like 3 posts and im not caught up. do you expect to know how I have been playing this game?

Well exactly, you came in, and I'm the first person you decide to go "I'll be voting andante" like, you couldn't have possibly caught up, and came out with me being scummiest

On the surface level, I am thinking this is actually a good point. Further than that I will have to look at their entrance to see if it's valid

thats what i said before andante said anything ^

[GrandpaMo]

i actually was going to answer that later when i looked back giving the tldr of wheemie (also cuz i witnessed it too) but basically i realized that like tonality/style is much nai on forum mafia lol and also i just got lazy to just keep doing it every single time. so it is whatever i right. like earlier, i gave my more formal tone but this one it is semi formal. it just happen to be that it doesn't matter for me anymore. ik long response for an expected 1 answer thing but oh well

You were going to answer why you had a tonal shift prior to being called out? And you're also saying someone who is generally aggressive, backs down (hypothetical, not aimed at anyone) that would not be scummy?

And imo you once had a very retaliatory tone and now it's generally extremely passive and I am not entirely sure what to make of it.

fwiw its just nai. and yea i was, i didnt wanna say anything because i thought the convo would be irrelevant hence why i said its nai. its the specific context of what u say in those reads matter. i just was getting scumread and i was taking my time wit my tone to appear towny as possibly as town but i realized ppl get townread when they have a memish tone for example. so whats the point? yk?

[GrandpaMo]

fwiw its just nai. and yea i was, i didnt wanna say anything because i thought the convo would be irrelevant hence why i said its nai. its the specific context of what u say in those reads matter. i just was getting scumread and i was taking my time wit my tone to appear towny as possibly as town but i realized ppl get townread when they have a memish tone for example. so whats the point? yk?

This post in particular, is literally admitting to having a forced tone and all too knowledgeable of the way they are posting in a way that I rarely see in Town. From memory, I do not think they've even attempted to debunk the fact they purposefully omitted information to make me look bad, if so I would like that to be brought to my attention. They've had a complete tone shift on me, even though they still scum-read me and they've been acting extremely pocketish towards when I started backing off from the death-tunnel (not backing off from scum-reading them, I should add). I feel they're not genuine at all with a combination of purposeful manipulation and self-aware of how they're posting.

Although, mind if you explain as to why you feel they're posting genuinely. Also I think progressing the game doesn't mean too much, especially early game where I find, as scum, it's easier to blend in as we don't have that much solid information to go off.

ommitting info does not equal tone. i said everything i had to say back then and still agree to it.

[GrandpaMo]

I mean but what scum admits faking tone tho?
Also i think scum tend to just allow the stagnation continue without trying to do anything abt it

They seem to be actively trying to pocket me/others and stay on the passive instead of just outright trying to counter my attacks as their aggressive strikes have flopped hard before.

At the moment, I feel they saw me as easy LHF from the start of the game due to how I wasn't posting (and them being used to smaller game sizes), they decide to shade me to try and get my view in the town downgraded. I respond with an instant attack on their shade with my aggressivish playstyle which they don't expect, so they start trying to figure out a way out of what I called them out on (being manipulative, omitting information, general LAMIST behaviour) but can't so they semi-admit it's the truth so they are semi-forced to back out as much as possible without looking bad so they have me at a FoS/SL and focus on Pooky and when I call them out again they don't want to be stuck in an impasse so they go with what I say to try and get me to back out.

you're still in my poe. i just townread you more than pooky. im down to either vote u or pooky.

something i also saw... i went to your other games and look at how you played as scum because you seem like a good player and you are playing quite differently so more reason to town read you. i thought your aggressiveness was scummy in terms of becoming over definsive. there is no reason to keep focusing on you if pooky hasn't contributed as much as you... like literally the only reads they have done is just me and u alligned. come on.

[GrandpaMo]

ommitting info does not equal tone. i said everything i had to say back then and still agree to it.

I didn't say they were the same thing

fuck! i was gonna get pagetop

and yea idk u implied it like it was

[GrandpaMo]

I

mean sure they sort of bit off more than they can chew in pushing you and tried to back off

, but i'm not sure that makes them scum

Like why is this more likely to come from scum than town

Also, what do u think of andante?

Because I don't see town!them outright manipulating people in our initial interaction and then have a complete tonal shift once they've realised they're losing grip. It's not only them just choosing to not interact with me, they've completely yeeted the way they treated their read on me that's not in the way of just evaluating elsewhere. Their wording and their tone just don't align with a genuine town making reads, and being heavily called out

for

said reads.

Andante I originally gut-pinned them as Town, but over time their posting has degraded that to a SR. Grandpa is by far my stronger scum-read, but them followed by Pooky. Andante is contradicting their own defined town-mindset as well as taking my own words out of context against me, instant OMGUS towards me even though I was not even pushing hard for their elim

I would much prefer a Grandpa elimination over an Andante one, but I wouldn't mind either way but I am getting a little pause from Andante as a few of their posts hit me different in a tone type of way, such as getting super heated when feeling they're being sole targeted and just breaking down in a way. Actually, thinking about it now, who did Grandpa say that they thought were getting bussed if they flip scum?

andante. i had a theory that if andante does tend to flip scum then they are getting bussed. but i doubt they are. they are having towny reactions. well i dont rlly know but i just know from my expierence this happens to be probable town

[GrandpaMo]

I townread a lot of people

Quick tldr?

You grandpa pooky fitz ahri hog

you don't tr jackson, so vote jackson?

idk how you tr ahri. I'd LOVE to know more on the ahri read

I am voting Jackson

Have you caught up yet

smh i asked that like 3 times now and no response from them

[GrandpaMo]

i wanted grandpa but im willing to compromise

u also deadass didnt even respond to any of us. "willing to comprimise" just a more stylish way to say im ready to sheep ur vote as mafia

[GrandpaMo]

My responses will be in red.

Like This.

Now what I am doing is actually clearly looking at Pooky here and explaining some of the scum thing they have done.

Spoiler:

I say give George a chance as he may live in a different time zone from us. I personally wouldn't vote for anyone on the first day.

we have to vote people though :3

it is part of the fun :>

I like Andante's train of thought on JV

++town

This is where I am assuming Pooky starts the town case for andante; townreading based on towny thoughts on JV. If you are saying Andante is town here why be willing? Why are you scared to defend someone that may be town?

voting and pressure is usually how you catch bad guys though

you can't just sit around and hope bad guys will serve themselves up to you on a platter.
]
if all the townies do nothing, and all the baddies do nothing, then we get nowhere :<

This interaction with Fizz makes it seem like you wanted to do something as mafia. Let us say you are town, what benefit does telling fizz that contribution matters on both sides? Mafia can just coast and can still win. Just like how maybe you implied in this quote. Mafia is more inclined to just realize potential on both ends of spectrums that "hey if townies do something, then mafia should as well." The only real reason I am pointing this out is because you become contradicting as day progresses. I will explain later.

Fizz,

if everyone like didn't vote and didn't say anything

we would have no information to go off of. We would be kinda blind!

that's not great

you have to get involved in the game to have fun :>

what do you think of the people who have spoken so far?

who do you think is more likely town or more likely scum? what are your reasons?

when you write it out, it makes it easier for the town to figure out if you are town or scum based on how the thought process feels.

The game is just for fun! there is nothing to lose if you are wrong :3

This is the first time and maybe the only time you actually ask about other people and wasn't even a direct question or reading but more rhetorical. You say you want to get involved in the game to have fun but yet you have not pointed out the specific reasonings for any of your reads, put a gamesolve early on and become coasty with laid back responses not paying attention fully to the game.

i have waited so long for you Ahri!

and this pagetop :3

This reply only applies if you and Ahri are mafia are partners. However just to note, mafia is inclined usually more to say regarding a time of event of sequence. For example, saying you have waited for someone and use an hyperbole or an act of exaggeration just makes it seem how you have been waiting for them to talk in day chat as they are your mafia partner. You are more likely to notice your mafia partner and bring a sign of closeness to your values as mafia.

I think I've already explained why I tr andante ?

Again, if you townread andante why not point out why he is town instead of voting your town read. Why not point out that "hey Grandpa and JV are alligned because of x, y, and z and how they interacted with x, y, z" Why not? Are you scared that you may get scumread for defending a possible mafia partner?

uh i have sheeped you so many times as town I can't even count

and I have never sheeped you as scum >.>

This interaction early game makes it seem like you were trying to get a possible pocket from Skitter, assuming skitter is town. You and skitter have been alligning and it seems that either or could be a pocket since I am scumreading you pooky. So let me ask you, if you insist on sheeping, why sheep when you know your townread could be town. Why insist that you sheeping could be scum in the first place. I believe the question was never intended to be in a negative light on you or put in any manipulative state of mind. You have the tendency as mafia to insist that scum sheeps, that you have sheeped as scum before. Maybe in games without skitter. And skitter may not know. Even though, very distraughtful from your POV as you continue to sheep.

you feel too explainy in an artificial kind of way :>

This is will be the first time in this post that I address you vs me. "I feel too explainy in an artifical way" I actually apperciated that read back then because you actually tried to contribute and give some sort of talk there. What do you feel of me later on? Two people have came out and said my tone and style have changed, is your gamesolve still me and JV then? Is that the reason why you scumread me. Wasn't it something in the beginning where you said that I said something about JV and then you probably aligned me there with JV? No updated reads what so ever. And you haven't said anything especially when you have built a scumcase using that and its honestly sad.

i wanted grandpa but im willing to compromise

Once again, you have prodded at the fact multiple times this game that you were going to sheep someone else's vote. You wanted me? So stay on me. Don't be scared. You are paranoid that in the world that Andante does flip scum, you become paired with them. You have gave no one attention and so lack of interactions for town increased meaning that you are probably mafia for not wanting to interact. I have seen you in other games actually try to gamesolve by contributing a lot, yes I am meta reading but no it will not be the initial scumcase on you. Remember earlier when I said it will be your own words will be contradicting? You have told Fizz that this is how usually we get the game going but I doubt you have done anything. And with those interactions with you and skitter and I bet believe that skitter probably wouldn't want to focus on you through that and maybe after this vote people will start looking at Pooky and Ahri and maybe the other BWers like wheme who I have asked like 4 times if they have caught up and decided to ignore the question and not state any other read until to responding to Andante and after me responding that hey that is weird you said you will try to catch up but then you become aggressive towards Andante as you see everyone is already against Andante. Then back off, by voting JV in which you have not precisely explained why they were scum. Sorry that was a little rant on Wheme. However, that doesn't excuse you.

i will be around b4 deadline to switch my vote if we need to get an elim

Again, go ahead and switch. You will soon realize Andante flips VT and you will have no where to go besides me and JV.

I hope town realizes that you are town Andante and the only reason I say about my theory of the bus is that because I know I am town. And we have everyone literally everyone in the lobby that has pushed Andante at some point (besides pooky but still will "be willing to change") except for HoG but I assuming they are town. And if Andante flips scum, then it was defeinilty a bus to seem very distanced. Especially later on. I doubt this will flip scum because my pair readings do NOT include Andante.

[GrandpaMo]

You've had like 12 top scumreads

i disagree. he thought there was a scum was between me and jv. and pushed ahri as another propsoing 2 scum. only read changed when wheme came in and acted scummy which 3 ppl have said which i started then andante said something then jv did.

[GrandpaMo]

Can you summarize all of your reads plz?
Also nobody townreads you as far as i know ...

i mean i see them as town...

[GrandpaMo]

I mean, my reads change.... I think it's dumb half yall spent an IRL week yelling "Andante scum!!!" when I'm not even scum. I haven't been voted out cause people TR me. duh

this is bad rxn. smh, im still townreading u but ur acting cocky of a tr. i rlly hope u dont flip scum because ima look rlly bad in day 2. the only time u flip scum is if mafia is bussing... unless ur paired wit HoG out of anyone.

[GrandpaMo]

Grandpa, you should vote JV

mhm. im willing to either vote my poe: jv and pooky. seeing that no one actually gained any traction on the vote for pooky, i might then just vote jv here

[GrandpaMo]

You've had like 12 top scumreads

i disagree. he thought there was a scum was between me and jv. and pushed ahri as another propsoing 2 scum. only read changed when wheme came in and acted scummy which 3 ppl have said which i started then andante said something then jv did.

He was also calling me and pooky scum and within you and jv and also ahri

And i dont think his progressions on any of these has been good

Why do u townread him

Okay so let me explain... these reactions and interaction in my opinion are doubtful to be mafia.

You have to step back and look at the bigger picture and think about on why and how Andante is reacting like the way he is. Does he do this as scum? If he was town, what would his town reaction be? Is there any bias? And etc. Questions that can help guide alignment issues toward the general overview.

Conceptual Context

As seen in my analysis of Pooky, it was so certain to Pooky that Andante was towny. And now just these interactions make it seem that Andante could flip town. Andante pushes Ahri for the lack of contribution, you come out and defend. Then HoG does some weird shit in the back. Both you and Ahri go hard at it against Andante. JV joins some time later. Pooky happens to sheep your vote. Wheme comes and finds a 'scummy' thing of Andante.

These events led it to the synopsis of how two the mafia or atleast 1 (and the other is focused on someone else) is definitely on the push of Andante. This aggression comes out of no where as soon as Andante starts getting annoyed. By game mechanics, there is less than 25% chance this could be a bus and this is based on a personal probability chance of how there is more likely to flip town with more members of this village pushing them.

They flip town. What happens next? There is 3 different theories you could play out if and only if they flip town. 1) Whole rest of the second day focused on night kill and day 1 information; game doesn't move that much 2) Game moves but only to a certain point if there is new info with night kill or any PR info is outted. 3) Game moves on completely focusing on the future in more hypotheticals. Number 2 is the most probable to happen as PRs are most likely to be gotten new info and night kill will tell us info on who might or might not have done that.


They flip scum. What happens next? There is 4 different theories you could play out if and only if they flip scum. 1) Scumread me because I was the hardest defender. 2) Scumread HoG because of their lack of contribution and attention to Andante (inactive) 3) Scumread Pooky for defending them until an influence of vote happened. 4) Theorize an 'elaborate' bus could have happened. From your perspective 1 and 4 seem the most probable. 3 coincides with 4 as we got pooky voting Andante now.

Now you answer me, playing that scenario if the flip scum, who is their Mafia partner? That will be hard to tell. I know I am town and honestly I wouldn't know as I would instantly jump into that conclusion of theory 2 and 4. I doubt game will progress. I guess it will be an "info vote" but there are far better votes than someone who has contributed and tried answering questions while some haven't and deflected on others. Lack of contribution from Ahri, Pooky, HoG, and Wheme. The only reason I am really not keen on voting JV is because the level of contribution. Me, Skitter, and JV all have been contributing and right now being it day one, I like to find that in a more later state of mind where we solved scum between the more people who haven't said anything. Even if they are town, they are lacking actual town members like us any town.

Personal Context

From my experience, Andante have done some things that would be considered a towny reaction. For example, in post 586, where Andante asks about other town members specifically Ahri when they know they have pressure on them, is usually what town considers to follow. "I am town so please can you read them" I would understand the pressure Andante has because everyone has been on them instead of Ahri who has contributed less than them and got away with it. Now that could be debated as either very scummy and very towny. They already implied they are most likely VT due to the nature of dying. Again, I have seen many VTs willing to die and giving legacy because they are being scumpushed, I am guilty of it that is why I feel this and tad biased. Mafia is more inclined to just claim PR. I don't see why Andante just claims VT as town. They will claim PR, get PR to maybe out or sway a vote onto someone else. Doesn't make sense for mafia to give out legacy reads and claim VT.

Extra comments

Response to Ahri:

First) HoG is being prodded at the moment. No one gave them any attention besides these last few hours because of no contribution and is being prodded for it. HoG never explained their read on Andante and never really focused anyone in the interaction but the outside voters. HoG townreads me I believe and someone else and may have scumread someone.

Second) The response to the "If he thinks there is one scum between me / JV then why is he pushing me" is a lame and wack reason to push honestly. You come in the end of the day contradicting your own statement. Andante flips scum > its Gpa / HoG and we win. That implies you think scum is between Gpa and Hog but you aren't pushing any of us instead you are pushing the same person who wanted to push you; omgus.

If Andante says there is scum between me and JV and wants you out that implies he thinks you are scum + with someone else in that pair. Do you not understand that? Since I now know that there is 2 mafia in the game, he is basically giving the logical argument that there is 1 scum in this pair and the other scum is x. In this case, you. It isn't hard that understand. For me to townread you, I needed a way better logic to push Andante.

Quick Response to Skitter:

Just to let you know, I would have done the same time. And I will gladly admit that either this person is PR/Scum. I do that as town and mafia and find that more of NAI because why would mafia need to believe their claim? If you are mafia and you know that this person could be PR (and they actually are) and Andante says this other person might be PR (in which they are VT)... Mafia gets conflicted in the psychology of the mind and decides to trust Andante's PR read and boom they flip VT. For example, if Andante says Pooky is PR/Scum (let us say they are actually confirmed scum) then Mafia knows that Pooky isn't PR and will be scumread by Andante if they didn't out as PR etc. It gives benefit to town as a sign of confusion imo. No reason for mafia to just out information like that. It doesn't do anything and in fact helps town in some cases.

[GrandpaMo]

Alright I have skimmed on mobile and have come to the conclusion that I think Andante and Grandpa are both scum together. Gramps refusing to vote there as they said andante was getting bussed. Its a tinfoil so not going further without a flip but I am posting this to ser if I nailed both scum D1 in a newbie game again.

Yea I know I am being paired with Andante here. And I really don't care because I know I am town. I defended my town read, I can do the same for all my reads unlike some of you all. I am pretty sure Andante flips town and I am NOT afraid to say this.

I have stated multiple times JV that I doubt it is a bus... I always like to bring hypotheticals. It isn't a bus because Andante flips town lmfao.

[GrandpaMo]

Alright I have skimmed on mobile and have come to the conclusion that I think Andante and Grandpa are both scum together. Gramps refusing to vote there as they said andante was getting bussed. Its a tinfoil so not going further without a flip but I am posting this to ser if I nailed both scum D1 in a newbie game again.

Wait I just read the actual content of what you said. You think I am scum because I am refusing to vote Andante? What? That is some wack BS LOL. I thought you were more of you think I am scum because I seem paired by defending. I think if you stayed on that logic that would have been better. I am not voting andante because they are my townread. I am voting my scumread. You or Pooky.

[GrandpaMo]

Wait I just read the actual content of what you said. You think I am scum because I am refusing to vote Andante? What? That is some wack BS LOL. I thought you were more of you think I am scum because I seem paired by defending. I think if you stayed on that logic that would have been better. I am not voting andante because they are my townread. I am voting my scumread. You or Pooky.

No that's not what I said.

I think you're scum for reasons I've been saying all D1. I think that if one of you do both flip scum and I am right that would be some legendary reading on my behalf. Hol' on let me get that game I am referring to

Well sorry to tell you this bud. You're wrong! You're outted confirmed scum for this!

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

[GrandpaMo]

Whatever you say

lol honestly i expected a way aggresive reaction. but i actually liked this rxn. obviously my thing was sarcastic but ig my vote is going to stay since no one is going to vote pooky smh. not even their own mafia partner like u can bus.

[GrandpaMo]

@skitter or @anyone, if you're willing to wagon Grandpa let me know but aorn I see not many people willing and it's so close to EoD

thats a scummy thing to say... what >-<

[GrandpaMo]

@cabd vote count ?

[GrandpaMo]

Actually, Grandpa give these games a read.

Town Games
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=84671
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84723

Scum Games
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=85295
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=85067

And if you actually read them you can probably see how hard it is for me to fake my own town-meta and you can gauge from that as well. If you *are* town here tunneling me that should help a tad. And if you're scum it shouldn't matter as you're set on wanting me dead as I'm a threat to you.

did u see that post where i referenced ur old game ;-; i even townread u using meta read. i rlly dont want to tunnel u JV. im like rlly flip flopping between u and pooky. beleving there is scum between but like i said rest of town isnt gonna budge any longer and we are close to eod, vote is between u for some fucking reason and andante. i townread andante so auto vote u, yk what im saying? i dont wanna split because its bad and u probably wanted to vote me as well but voting andante because "u are pressured to"

[GrandpaMo]

deadline is locked and will be reset to two days.

Sounds good to me

VOTE: Grandpa

LOL ok ok there you goooo.

VOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear

[GrandpaMo]

Actually, Grandpa give these games a read.

Town Games
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=84671
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84723

Scum Games
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=85295
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=85067

And if you actually read them you can probably see how hard it is for me to fake my own town-meta and you can gauge from that as well. If you *are* town here tunneling me that should help a tad. And if you're scum it shouldn't matter as you're set on wanting me dead as I'm a threat to you.

did u see that post where i referenced ur old game ;-; i even townread u using meta read. i rlly dont want to tunnel u JV. im like rlly flip flopping between u and pooky. beleving there is scum between but like i said rest of town isnt gonna budge any longer and we are close to eod, vote is between u for some fucking reason and andante. i townread andante so auto vote u, yk what im saying? i dont wanna split because its bad and u probably wanted to vote me as well but voting andante because "u are pressured to"

Did I miss the post? Mind linking it please.

ah wait... i was thinking bout the post on pooky. i can deep analyze and iso you and make a whole post about you in terms of where i saw you scum and saw you town later . i think thats why i started to townread you more because i did actually try to get meta reads... i might have said something in a post i really forgot but i said how you were acting different as scum where you were usuallhy memish and stuff. but dw i will give you a whole analytical post asap

[GrandpaMo]

Actually, Grandpa give these games a read.

Town Games
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=84671
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84723

Scum Games
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=85295
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=85067

And if you actually read them you can probably see how hard it is for me to fake my own town-meta and you can gauge from that as well. If you *are* town here tunneling me that should help a tad. And if you're scum it shouldn't matter as you're set on wanting me dead as I'm a threat to you.

did u see that post where i referenced ur old game ;-; i even townread u using meta read. i rlly dont want to tunnel u JV. im like rlly flip flopping between u and pooky. beleving there is scum between but like i said rest of town isnt gonna budge any longer and we are close to eod, vote is between u for some fucking reason and andante. i townread andante so auto vote u, yk what im saying? i dont wanna split because its bad and u probably wanted to vote me as well but voting andante because "u are pressured to"

Did I miss the post? Mind linking it please.

ah wait... i was thinking bout the post on pooky. i can deep analyze and iso you and make a whole post about you in terms of where i saw you scum and saw you town later . i think thats why i started to townread you more because i did actually try to get meta reads... i might have said something in a post i really forgot but i said how you were acting different as scum where you were usuallhy memish and stuff. but dw i will give you a whole analytical post asap

Oh okay? If you're talking about reading through my old games yeah that's good. Make a comparison with each or whatnot I am actually curious what you'll make of it.

btw just to let you know i will look at more other games than just those just to combat sampling bias and how it could be in favor of you comparing you to this playstyle. i will reference it in my post . thanks

[GrandpaMo]

Andante I am intending to hammer.

can u even hammer dont we need to wait on a replacement or sum?

[GrandpaMo]

Responses in this

orange color.

Responses in

Bolded Pink

Spoiler:

You've had like 12 top scumreads

i disagree. he thought there was a scum was between me and jv. and pushed ahri as another propsoing 2 scum. only read changed when wheme came in and acted scummy which 3 ppl have said which i started then andante said something then jv did.

He was also calling me and pooky scum and within you and jv and also ahri

And i dont think his progressions on any of these has been good

Why do u townread him

Okay so let me explain... these reactions and interaction in my opinion are doubtful to be mafia.

You have to step back and look at the bigger picture and think about on why and how Andante is reacting like the way he is. Does he do this as scum? If he was town, what would his town reaction be? Is there any bias? And etc. Questions that can help guide alignment issues toward the general overview.

Conceptual Context

As seen in my analysis of Pooky, it was so certain to Pooky that Andante was towny. And now just these interactions make it seem that Andante could flip town. Andante pushes Ahri for the lack of contribution, you come out and defend. Then HoG does some weird shit in the back. Both you and Ahri go hard at it against Andante. JV joins some time later. Pooky happens to sheep your vote. Wheme comes and finds a 'scummy' thing of Andante.

So you're saying that Pooky town-treading Andante is indicative of them being Town or that their interactions and what they said specifically is town!AI.

Response:

Not only pooky. I later on say "and these interactions make it seem that Andante could flip town." Since, I scumread pooky and think they are probable scum I use it as a hook for an example of scum just sheeped and BWed on a vote. It is more of Pooky's behavior with Skitter and how that influenced a vote on Andante. I hope that makes sense because I really have organized in my head but maybe losing you on text, I apologize.

These events led it to the synopsis of how two the mafia or atleast 1 (and the other is focused on someone else) is definitely on the push of Andante. This aggression comes out of no where as soon as Andante starts getting annoyed. By game mechanics, there is less than 25% chance this could be a bus and this is based on a personal probability chance of how there is more likely to flip town with more members of this village pushing them.

So are you saying the wagon has scum on it, or the push of the wagon. For example, I am on the push but not the wagon. And I am not asking if your SR is on the push/wagon, I am asking if you think scum in general would be pushing it even if you are wrong on your SR's on me/pooky for example. Also can I ask how you came to the conclusion it's >75% chance that it's not a bus? I ask this because you say that it's by game mechanics so you would have put thought into this if it's an actual calculation of sorts.

Response:

Push/Wagon; mostly the same thing. You were still willing to change your votes and was still down to vote Andante. Everyone in this lobby was willing to vote Andante besides me, HoG (because of afk), and Andante themselves. And maybe Fizz actually. Now thinking about it, where is she? When I was referring the push, I meant the total aggression the whole lobby against Andante that really made scum think of "hey this is an easy ML, let us sheep!" But then I have paranoid thoughts on why would just mafia sheep like that? Make it so obvious for themselves? That is why I thought of a bus really. I explained how I came up with 75%; I said it was based on personal probability, not an actual calculation. I can if you want actually make the real calculation:

Let us assume you and wheme would have intneded to vote Andante and that counts as a scum case on Andante.

Let us assume HoG is townreading Andante.

Let us assume Fizz is townreading Andante.

Let us assume Grandpa is townreading Andante.

The rest scumreads Andante.

That leaves us with 9 players. 2 of which are mafia: 9/2

6 of those players would have scumread Andante.

Now what is the probability that two of mafia lies in those 6 players: 2/6 =

33%

Now what is the probability that one of that lies in those defending them, assuming Andante is scum: 1/3 =

33%

I may have messed up somewhere in the math so please go ahead correct me or point out any mistakes... It's been a while since I did mafia calculations.

They flip town. What happens next? There is 3 different theories you could play out if and only if they flip town. 1) Whole rest of the second day focused on night kill and day 1 information; game doesn't move that much 2) Game moves but only to a certain point if there is new info with night kill or any PR info is outted. 3) Game moves on completely focusing on the future in more hypotheticals. Number 2 is the most probable to happen as PRs are most likely to be gotten new info and night kill will tell us info on who might or might not have done that.

I don't want to and am going to actively refuse to do anything with game plans, as that benefits scum as they can choose the NK that best forces their agenda into play. Although you say the game won't advance that much on a town flip, what town flip (assuming we elim a town today) would in your honest opinion and why would that change more than a town flip on Andante.

It's day 1, we're not going to get any solid information unless we flip a scum.

Response:

I mean you are right. But game plans should be a game of discussion later on. NK doesn't benefit scum at all. It is in their wincon to always kill night one. I feel as though the game may advance no matter what Andante flips. I honestly also don't understand your question, so if you could maybe reiterate that. And response to your bolded, are you assuming that Andante flips scum? In my context, I layed out when they flip town what will town do.

They flip scum. What happens next? There is 4 different theories you could play out if and only if they flip scum. 1) Scumread me because I was the hardest defender. 2) Scumread HoG because of their lack of contribution and attention to Andante (inactive) 3) Scumread Pooky for defending them until an influence of vote happened. 4) Theorize an 'elaborate' bus could have happened. From your perspective 1 and 4 seem the most probable. 3 coincides with 4 as we got pooky voting Andante now.

I don't want to and am going to actively refuse to do anything with game plans, as that benefits scum as they can choose the NK that best forces their agenda into play. Although you say the game won't advance that much on a town flip, what town flip (assuming we elim a town today) would in your honest opinion and why would that change more than a town flip on Andante. It's day 1, we're not going to get any solid information unless we flip a scum.

Response:

Same response? I hope that means you were taking account in both perspectives I saw this in.

Now you answer me, playing that scenario if the flip scum, who is their Mafia partner? That will be hard to tell. I know I am town and honestly I wouldn't know as I would instantly jump into that conclusion of theory 2 and 4. I doubt game will progress. I guess it will be an "info vote" but there are far better votes than someone who has contributed and tried answering questions while some haven't and deflected on others. Lack of contribution from Ahri, Pooky, HoG, and Wheme. The only reason I am really not keen on voting JV is because the level of contribution. Me, Skitter, and JV all have been contributing and right now being it day one, I like to find that in a more later state of mind where we solved scum between the more people who haven't said anything. Even if they are town, they are lacking actual town members like us any town.

If they flip scum, their partner could theoretically be anyone and it's hard to make any decisions pre-flip and pre-analysis of said flip so nobody can honestly answer this question with confidence but if anyone it would be you who is seemingly pushing an agenda of them getting bussed earlier and you hard-pushing against them. That on it's own is not indicative but that in addition to my read already on you that would be my push. Can you see why that seems like an agenda from my pov though, honest question.

Response:

Yes it could theoretically be anyone. But the point of this analysis is to show you how I don't have a slight concern in voting my scumreads/orientating my townreads. Yes I pushed the agenda that it could be flipped red, and that

should

be scummy from your perspective, but I explained why I thought it could be a bus if and only if they flip red but I have long defended Andante and will do so because I thought he brought enough willing contribution and many of reactions out of day one that could be carried out to day 2 as well despite scum/town. You say I am "hard pushing against them" What does that mean? I have defended them throughout and will continue to do so. I do understand. You have already had a read and my POV on this whole Andante thing further exemplifies it. I understand it from your POV and honestly I do from everyone. Especially you, you love to only react when someone else does. You pay attention to no one but those who have said something about you. (And I will further explain that in my long post about you later) Ahhh spoilers

Anyways I have to go to school. I hope these are good enough for you to understand.

[GrandpaMo]

@Skitter, mind adding your thoughts on this before I say anything about it.

I think once he realized the deadline was longer he was willing to switch votes ?

Except that wasn't it at all I believe. It was that they voted me simply because they wanted a wagon that wasn't Andante. Could be remembering wrong as well

that implies what skitter says is true. but yes, i am willing to switch votes on the premise that anything happens. or changes. i will further exemplify my read on pooky in jacksons post

[GrandpaMo]

Also imagine a world where Grandpa, myself, andante and skitter are all town and this is a royal laugh for the scum.

wtfff JV!!! I WAS LITERALLY GOING TO SAVE THAT IN MY POST ABOUT YOU DAMMIT. LOL, I like that you actually had that same intuitive thought as me.


++townpings imo. You deserve some.

Nah fr tho. I think that is what is happening right now.

And since we have more time. Can we hear from Fizz pls? Everyone collecevily town read fizz but I just want to hear from them cuz I dont know where they stand for me.

[GrandpaMo]

I wonder why the game is somewhat stagnant

I think it's because nobody is getting points across effectively and getting burned out. I am hoping a flip will bring things back when that happens

dw stay tuned...

[GrandpaMo]

I wonder why the game is somewhat stagnant

I think it's because nobody is getting points across effectively and getting burned out. I am hoping a flip will bring things back when that happens

dw stay tuned...

Am excited, when can I expect it to drop?

lol uhhh well im in a voice game rn of mafia. its taking longer than usual because while im isoing everyone including u mainly, im doing anaylsis on my notebook and i also need to still check out ur other games. i do have school tomorrrow so i do need to go to sleep and might just finish writing this by the time i sleep as im playing voice mafia; yes im multigaming but shh. anwyays just giv me some time.

[GrandpaMo]

hey im halfway done writing. finished all the iso reads. will start on the other part of my analysis tmr i rlly need to go to sleep. but so far i do not like what is happening these past 2 days. Pooky why switch to wheme that quick? Werent me and JV your gamesolve? So does that imply that your vote wasn't serious? You vote someone who was scumread by the person you were voting... JV you vote the person that was wanting to get voted by me who you scumread as well. These are some weird ass pivots please stick to you actually think is scum.

[GrandpaMo]

Could you post what you have?

ok sure its very incomplete but okay

[GrandpaMo]

Okay hey there!

This will be a long post. This will include interactions from Andante, Pooky, Skitter, Wheme, and of course JV. JV wanted something of that sort, and I will bring the analysis onto you JV; you are the main focus hence why you are the only one in this ISO wall post.

1. Analysis Through Wallposts

Responses will be in

whatever random color I chose.

Note: I did write some early info on my notebook regarding JV while looking at a depth ISO analysis so if you do see more of post numbers than that is why. It is very hard to really respond to everything, but I pointed out some noticeable and notable things that were worthy of replying to.

VOTE: Grandpa Mo

i still like fizz, not sure scum fakes this or has this take

i was thinking of switching my vote to grandpa tbh

pedit yeah i'll do that too VOTE: grandpa

I'm swinging this way as well at this point

Sup batch files, I have returned back to newbie games.

pepega SE

Mood

admiration / thanks will be collected in the form of PayPal

thank you!!

Sure! I'll send it to you, just need your account username and password

s of now, Jackson keeps finding a way to coast which is kinda lame because I really want to hear from them so I can perceptualize an actual read on them

You can't actually have this pop into your head, after I've literally explained I was going to work and that I was going to sleep FOR work the night earlier. Your entire perspective is broken

VOTE: GrandpaMo

Okay so I believe this is where it first began and everything that led to our early game interaction. Our first quote on quote misunderstanding. And this stems from you misunderstanding what I said. Later on, I do admit to something I may have misunderstood causing me to read something wrong. Anyways, you took my reaction through you working seriously and thought that I had a scum mindset in which I wouldn't really be focused on you and just let you go by. You misunderstood me because that wasn't really what I was saying and later on I was trying to get you to understand that wasn't anything that should be considered scummy or reactive or anything. You thought my perspective was just you coasting in scum terms, in which I disagree. My perspective during that time was that "hey you said you are working = expecting some coastiness > expect some reads later on. That was how my mindset during that initial read. You

misunderstood

what I said and took it in another account. Also something with the pivoting quotes earlier mentioned above. That is where I was thinking "hmmm do mafia usually do this in forum mafia... sheep just so openly" I never really had the chance to look at other games or really look into the framework as this game. This will be a precedent game and I hope we do win as town so I can start my winning streak. FYI You do NOT have to agree with me. But as my analysis shows, that is what it assumes/implies.

Sad thing is that I never scumread you because you were coasting lmao. I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional. I feel like this is a mafia BW. I am waiting for other takes from other people, to really look at more pairings and interactions with you because you did actually come out with info now.

Did I say that you were scum-reading me for me coasting? No, I didn't. I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.

This is the second misunderstanding of the interaction. And I will come out and admit that it was my misunderstanding on how I misunderstood what your initial post was saying. I thought you were implying a scum read on me because I was already biased that you were overreactive and had a sense of a scum mentality where you would get so offended like that. And so I just correlated the two together and got that perspective.

Sad thing is that I never scumread you because you were coasting lmao. I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional. I feel like this is a mafia BW. I am waiting for other takes from other people, to really look at more pairings and interactions with you because you did actually come out with info now.

Did I say that you were scum-reading me for me coasting? No, I didn't. I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.

Also the typical scum-tell of the 'lmao' has emerged.

In this quote, I thought that you were trying to find the easiest of tells or ways to actually push me hence why I said you were over reacting in post 176. This is where honestly I further exemplified my scum case on you coming out and saying it was sarcastic maybe made it seem like you were tryna cover your tracks, however this could have even just been further bias on me.

Another thing... No one answered my question which I geninuly am curious to know as it will make much more sense on pairings and stuff.

How many mafia are usually in a 9 player setup?

Check the OP, the game setup is there. It's a 2v7 game (2 mafia, 7 town). A random spot on the bottom three columns are selected, those are the Town PR roles (all other roles are going to be Vanilla Townies) and the Mafia will have the roles at the top of that specific column.

If I butchered this explanation let me know

Oh well that changes my perspective on something.

Okay cool. And?

Something I should include as I never got to answer it. It was a moment of realization where I actually had to change my perspective on how I thought pooky and skitter back then were being paired with third possible back mafia. Now I realized making the reads I did back then, I realized that only 2 mafia was available hence why I came up with pooky/skitter - jv/fizz.

Sad thing is that I never scumread you because you were coasting lmao. I said you kept having excuses (which were genuine) and you had to coast intentional or not intentional. I feel like this is a mafia BW. I am waiting for other takes from other people, to really look at more pairings and interactions with you because you did actually come out with info now.

Did I say that you were scum-reading me for me coasting? No, I didn't. I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.

Also the typical scum-tell of the 'lmao' has emerged.

Now I just feel like you are over reaching. I always say lmao,

lmao

It was a semi-joke but the scum-tell is a serious one, and has been documented somewhere on the wiki iirc.

You also said you have blatantly said your scumread on me. Can you please again if you did because you did not and referred me to saying "I have said it multiple times". I expect a reply very soon not something for you to look back and make some random shit as of now.

This is actually manipulative.

And I've said many times that your perspective/mindset is not one I would or ever have considered a townie mindset and this also doubles down as one of my own person strongest scum-tells to look out for. You blatantly sheep another's reads by saying you agree to it, without actually adding any content for yourself, and then you cherry-pick the information to shade me knowing all too well that you knew exactly why I was not active. What you've said to me just now proves that. You aren't town, and I am almost certain

This was just more me of aggressively seeing you as a way to tunnel me and reiterating your reads. I have genuinely asked you at that time for your reads because remember I misunderstood the whole scum case on me. I thought you were basing your scumreads being over defensive of being coasting. I now know why and it is not because of what but the why behind the whole equation. I understand now that you have scumread me because I would have that perception to say that specific quote I said earlier. Even though I disagree with the read, it gave me more result at it. Remember, this is just reiterating information I have already said and saying it again to really clarify to you what I meant.

You have NOT explained my mindset and perspective on how what I did is actual scum. I do agree that I did sheep some of the reads and that is because I actually townread three people in the beginning two of which scumread me. If you look back... you can see I pointed out the possible "1 mafia out of this pair" type situation. I will be voting you for the time being.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Oh yesseree I did explain why your mindset is wack, in fact I did so in the exact post you're quoting.

Town Mindset: Solving, trying to actively find scum and/or town.
Scum Mindset: Manipulative, trying to survive, trying to make cases on Town.
You: Cherry-pick information, purposefully ignore information (which you know). Sheep then shade a LHF (at the time).

Which section do you honestly believe that fits. Also what the hell does that pair thing has to do with anything.

I thought my mindset was completely normal obviously due to the own self conscious bias but also just using your logic there. I became more infuriated with your own logic as I thought it contradicted. You were here tunneling me and not even actively trying to find scum and etc. I always thought this would have gotten faster but now I am used to playing this style so that's been better. I never knew any of the ignored info by the way. Only time I have cherry picked info is when I have found certain things of what you said was scummy. I thought you were really being hypocritical because you got mad over me calling you coasty now (having that same mindset as before thinking you scumread me because of that and not the mindset). The pair thing has to do what I decipher in my head as town. Obviously you know that we don't share a brain. We both are going to have some different and similar results at times using whatever techniques to get there whether you be scum or town.

I WILL RIGHT NOW LOL! I literally told you many times that you have brought up ways especially general terms in which ANYONE can and quickly pivot that onto me because you already seen TWO people have that synopsis. You also are over reaching on a quote that never was meant to attack you or anything. You were overdefensive and only mafia gets overdefensive on something like that. You get overdefensive because you have nothing else to attack me on that besides that. You are exposed.

You say you're rushing and cannot answer me, which in extension accepts that I did explain the mindset thing yet here you're denying it.

Also Town can't get defensive when they get attacked for literally having the inability to post? Just stop

That second quote right here further signified the scumread I originally had on you. I was very very null scum leaning to you. Because at times you would say it was the perception and how a mafia would think and now you give me this question and now I am conflicted with my own thoughts. "Does this question imply that they were scumreading me based on coasting?" Anyways back to the first part, as you can see I got angry because I really thought you know we were just going at it and it was getting us no where... I was doing everything you were doing and you kept looking me as scum. I started getting more on the agressive side here and try to pin point out the things you have done that in my experience I have scum seen.

This is my first forum game lmao. I have played mafia in other communities though as I said previously. This proves that you are taking what I say out of context.

I am just asking as I originally thought you may be an alt, you're the one reaching now.

Back to the mindset thing. I never have lied anything about you, didn't even scum read you nor really focus on you. Just like how I questioned GeorgeBailey's presence, I questioned yours as Andante has said something about your entrance. I followed up with "yea I can see how that can be weird" then proceed to say that I want to hear from you (which I expected for you to do once you get back from whatever doing).

No, my main point was that you were purposefully omitting information to make me look as bad as possible, of which you've confirmed yourself with your wording. Unless you act deceptive as town, you're simply not. Simple as that. Also you lied by saying I keep making excuses, when I made one which, again, you decide to omit the fact I was at work and decide to shade me.

Coasting never aligns with me being manipulative. Not in any way I have tried to be manipulative. I was just game solving from a town mindset and actively searching for different reads because at that time, I did NOT have a distinct scum read and wanted to hear from you and your reaction to Andante and me hence, why I said the thing I said.

You're using my own words as a reverse-attack here, it does not matter if you said you had a SR on me or not, you WERE shading me by omitting stuff how hard is this to understand.

You are also hypocritical to the fact that you as well never answered my question in post 187.

Don't remember this, I'll check back.

Because were you or were you not?? Did you or did you not leave? Yes you did. Hence I said what I said.

This question? Are you serious? You're taking low blows in hopes to up your defence when it's not. To answer the seeming rhetorical question; I did leave, I was at work like I said. Does that mean you can scummily shade me and manipulate the given state and get away with it? Definitely not.

And by manipulate the state, like I've said a thousand times at this point. You specifically choose to omit that fact I was at work, and say I was coasting. You also blatantly exaggerate it to make it seem like I am constantly trying to not post, when it was page 6. Adding to the fact that you were sapping off the fact I was a LHF at the time in hopes to make me look bad.

where you have gotten overdefensive on something such as me calling you out as coasting.

As I said, I am not happy that you just put me in a bad light and I am not accepting the fact that a Town would do that willingly, which again I have proven that it WAS willing.

I thought it was obvious town saw me replying to your information that what I said originally was based on the assumption that you were at work. That is why it was necessary not to include information that was explicitly said. I never used that omitted information, I used how you originally reacted to me against you because like I said there was no problem in the first place. Just a terms of misunderstanding really just caused that whole interaction

why are you so fixated on me?

I am getting a specific

vibe

from them but I am not sure exactly where I lie with it. They're not addressing the original questions, sure. But I have a feeling that this post is genuine.

I hate vibe reads. I guess you did give a real read but just to let you know, I really despise vibe reads. I don't know; the nature of them just feel so unnecessary to the actual content and game solving of the actual game. So the from your point of view, I think this is where you start picking up on Andante here and this is how I saw you feel towards Andante. I think you are the least likely to make the sheep here knowing your playstyle (more info down below). Mafia just wouldn't be that obvious in my opinion.

lurking isn't a really good sign

Okay, I am starting to think our definitions are different.

Lurking -> reading the thread but choosing not to post in it for [X] reason. (which I should also clarify isn't AI by itself if someone does lurk).

This was based on the reality that lurking meant actual scum type of coasting. You read the post, not choose to post because you don't want the attention sitatuid on yourself or any other scum tells that happen with coasting/lurking. Pretty much this quote in general meant we both disagreed on something but moved on after... a contentious that felt genuine.

I would be big sad if skitter was scum.

Good thing she is town this game :3

bad quote smh

im still so paranoid about this, can anyone tell me if this sounds scum?

If nobody has said this yet, I do think that sounds scummy. I also think they look bad in the following interaction.

Spoiler:

ok who do you want to elim today?

The mafia.

yea me too

Good plan everyone, glad we're still on the same page

~
Pooky i think u can be aligned with andante fwiw

I am aligned with the town :3

I think we both had the same initiative thought about this interaction. We are both stepping back and realizing the difference it makes without tunneling each other. This is why I was starting to town lean more here due to you having the same thought as me because you are thinking and looking like a townsmember.

Replying to Andante's wallpost in 487. My responses in

Bolded Red

Spoiler:

sorry this is so long...

JacksonVirgo: 43 ISO posts, LOTS of quotes and responding to quotes.

Is this a problem? You're making it out that it is

2 people vote Grandpa, and Jackson goes “I’m swinging this way as well at this point” - #162 with no interactions directed at Grandpa before that, then in #162 Jackson votes Grandpa after yelling that they were gonna sleep/go to work?? I do believe Jackson was genuinely mad, but like, it’s weird. #167 Jackson says “I am saying your perspective is not one that aligns with what I would consider a town mindset.” But all Jackson has really SAID about/to grandpa was explained the setup, and got mad at GM cause Jackson said they were gonna go to bed/work, yet assumes they have to stick around and talk to GM??
You are aware you can just walk away and resume whenever right??

Depending on how busy my life is at the time, I sometimes can't get super into a game until later which leads to me reading but not posting, which happened until Grandpa heavy-duty caught my radar. You're also taking my words out of context here. Grandpa was omitting information that was making me look bad, of which I wasn't going to accept so of course I attacked back. I explained many times about the mindset thing so why are you choosing to ignore that. I do not like leaving stones unturned when I play, get used to my playstyle or yeet me.

~~ I see why yall wanted me to react to this exchange earlier lmao ~~
Just reading this, Jackson feels mad/annoyed at GM for the questions. GM asked for a reason for a read, and in #168 you go “I’ve given one, rather blatantly if I do say so myself” then in #169 JV scumreads GM for saying lmao.
Like, I could see this as town conf biased Grandpa is scum, but it really feels like JV has just decided to tunnel GM.
In #179, I find this really interesting, JV calls GM manipulative, then talks about GM sheeping another’s read without adding to it, then picking info to make JV look bad. I haven’t ISOd GM yet, but this reaction to GM wondering the reason JV SRs them? The #179 paragraph is just a very generic thing, it’s not even like “you said this here, and changed the context here” Town or Maf, Jackson feels like they aren’t even going to consider a Grandpa town world, which makes me lean JV scum, but I’ll keep reading.
#180 Jackson still seems mad about being “expected to be there when they previously said they wouldn’t be” like, this type of anger isn’t alignment indicative, but I do kinda SR the fact JV has so many posts about it, when you could literally just walk away any moment and return later, and no one will care.

I was very frustrated with having to deal with what Grandpa was doing, yes. Your response to my 169 is weak and seems overly shady, tbh it's not even a response it's just reiterating what was done with no input of your own. Repeating again, me deadass tunneling a player without looking elsewhere is a bad habit of mine, even if I am right I am trying not to do so. Again, you're attacking something that's just my
playstyle, so stop.

#183 JV explains a town vs scum mindset, and I’ll add, a town mindset would be trying to find maf/acknowledging your read might not be right, cause JV has just been tunneling Grandpa, granted GM is probably the only one speaking right now, but posts like this kinda just reaffirm that your only goal is to tunnel GM, I kinda agree with GM’s #181 JV hasn’t explained the GM specific things, just keeps talking in general terms.
#186 JV is still yelling about being in the forum longer than they wanted?
Again, you are more than welcome to walk away whenever, we have 7 IRL days for d2/3/4
JV asking GM about maf experience… as if that will change anything about this little situation… I’m trying to not make a super long post here lol I know yall aren’t gonna want to read this
#227 FINALLY a post not to GM, JV responds to Fizz about spamming the thread, which in my opinion is a really weird post to respond to lol especially going “I don’t think this is AI” like, I think in that content, it definitely pointed more to JV scum GM town, like, also based on what I remember people saying, others agreed with that, and I really see it.
#229 “I have a surface level TR on skitz because their entrance” this comment feels really out there. Just had this huge exchange with GM about how you need reasons.. also in #160 basically told me reading entrances was bad, but if JV does it, it’s ok!!

Acknowledging a read may/may not be right is a personality thing and/or confidence thing so I disagree with you. 186 you're completely misrepresenting/misunderstanding there. I am proving that I was not just bullshitting my way out of posting like Grandpa was making out I was doing. And I am ALLOWED to ask people for experience, I was trying to fucking gauge them. Now I'm lowkey getting mad. I do not care if any of my posts are "out there", I've explained what I did and I am not going to again.

****
#298 makes a point to go back to skitter about the entrance? This exchange with the 2 feels really weird. I was a tad sus of skit before, and this makes it feel like “I need to force an interaction with my partner” it’s so significant, I’ll actually quote it below.

I have a surface level TR on skitz mainly because their entrance felt ballsy in a sense scum wouldn't try. Also the fact they don't have an issue with switching reads, scum tend to stick to it as to not feel opportunistic.

Oh? How was it ballsy?

It just seems overly, hype/exciting in a way that seems too risky for scum to do as it may appear as pockety.

*****
#412 is another post just speaking in general, and not really directed at anyone “scum would do this…”
#413 – JV knows I’m town likely from TMI but I’ll take a tr right now
#423- I mean, if you ISO Glory, Glory’s lines are fine, definitely not bad.

You're making associative reads before any flips happen, which is generally bad practice as you're >rand wrong when you do that. Just stick to singular reads and go from flips, trust me on that one. I hate the fact you're shading me for 413 which is legitimately LAMIST, and I no longer town-lean you. It's actually quite funny how big your contradiction here is though, you said a town mindset is knowing your reads may not be right, but here you are fairly certain on me/skitter being scum (more specifically me here) and yeah, according to your very own logic you are scum. Congrats fam

Knowing your playstyle this game so far, I feel as though this wallpost on you gave like more of a bias standing against Andante. You feel weird about Andante. Andante scumreads you > then you scumread them stronger. Do you understand what I am trying to say? You may disagree but from my perspective that is how it looks like. You have to also really consider... does scum iso you like that? and really try to give their best in coordinating associate reads? Just seems really eh enough of a towny reaction of responses just like I am doing now to really see it from a perspective.

Also Wheme looks pretty decent at this current moment imo. 552 I like a lot and it's something I would have said if they didn't

I hope that isn't your finalized read on wheme...

_____________________________________________________________________________________

1a. Conclusion

Okay so basically this will be a TLDR of what I have said throughout this sort analysis. These are what I usually had written down next to me just for reference. So from post 162, The first misunderstanding happen; the initial push from JacksonVirgo. From post 167, the second misunderstanding happens; I assume not a real assumption. Around post 169, you use small embellishments that make me more angry and tunnel you further making assumptions that you were getting to me for everything. By post 173, this is where I officially think that you were getting to me by everything. From Post 183 to some posts later, you now fully explain the whole mindset concept in greater length and detail and I now understand the initial scum push on me. Around post 197, I started associating hypocrisy to everything you did trying to scum push me further. Towards later posts you start having the same thoughts as me. You lessen and twiddle down the energy. We BOTH do that. And realize something a conceptual / intuitive thought we may have head that if we both try to actually and try to look for scum instead of tunneling we can get the game going on. It was no point of arguing no more since we couldn't get the point across to each other. We both tried and failed essentially as we both probably still disagree with each other on the majority of reads. Right now, you have stayed in a very neutral position where you are playing so like aggressive but you havent been making really big scumtells. I will try not to be paranoid and actually seek what your actually alignment later on.

INCOMPLETE

[GrandpaMo]

ok goodnight hope this is good enough catch up with you all tmr

[GrandpaMo]

hey im halfway done writing. finished all the iso reads. will start on the other part of my analysis tmr i rlly need to go to sleep. but so far i do not like what is happening these past 2 days. Pooky why switch to wheme that quick? Werent me and JV your gamesolve? So does that imply that your vote wasn't serious? You vote someone who was scumread by the person you were voting... JV you vote the person that was wanting to get voted by me who you scumread as well. These are some weird ass pivots please stick to you actually think is scum.

skitter said you r town

is ur meta trying to act scum as possible so u can get townread by "oh they are acting very scum cant actually be scum"

like come on man please contribute... even as mafia try wit a grain of salt. before i wake up i better see ur reads smh

[GrandpaMo]

Well i can safely say i want to flip andante more than wheme

And fair abt the game slowing down but idk what your reads are (other than you townreading me + sheeping me)

ok what has andante done thats more scum indicative than what wheme has done?

agree wit this but this could be me bias... still tho wheme is more sus then andante. wheme comes in sheeps literally everyone and calls andante scummy then backs out. sheeps jv to look town

[GrandpaMo]

I apologise for being so quiet. I had nothing to add from the last post I made on Monday. Now I do. I see Jackson has posted a hell of a lot the last few days. Some posts are confusing at times to read and it's difficult to catch up, but at least I see Pookie putting in a lot more effort now so that's changed from a few days ago. However Atrai hasn't been around. I see a new player playing this so yeah, pretty hard to read new players, although the star handler has put in a lot of posts to help town.

Jackson I see has put up a couple of spammy posts. Nothing to really worry about. Really the only one that I see scum right now is atrai. That's it, although there's more scum in this game obviously, but can't really workout who else would be for now.

so do u townread andante?

[GrandpaMo]

ANyone have a fast tldr of the game?

ima try:

so basically first early game interaction...andante comes out with a saying that gets the game moving; "jackson/fizz enterances are weird. seems something mafia is more inclined to say" something along those lines. fizz gets defensive bout ppl voting early game. claims doesn't know how it worked and moves on later on. i think 2-3 ppl tried to tell her it wasnt scummy to early vote and how it moved the game anways pooky alligns me with jv. skitter and pooky give towncred on andante for the enterence read and their further impression. skitter also gives me townpings. andante is questioning due to the nature of his perception that me and fizz are leaning scum in his eyes. HoG comes in and gives views about the skitter/fizz interactions in post 87 also pressuring pooky. skitter thinks now im scum (reason why in post 92) andante now votes me along wit skitter as well. ahri comes in with pooky and skitter talking bout the theme of this setup. ahri gives pings starting in post 119. HoG comes in 147 i come in after asking how many mafia there is as well as elaborate with HoG's reads (please go to post for specifics). HoG is collectivtly townread i believe specifically by skitter and ahri . JV comes in replying to some earlier quotes made and scums me as well. This starts the feud interaction between me and JV starting in post 162! (tldr of that interaction; we gon about how there is mindsets and hwo im being manipulative and i disagree and i think that he is, read more for specifics) .

skitter says jv is town out of that interaction. fizz now finally gets why the voting thing is good as well as his reads in post 199. HoG gives his reads on it as well on 201. ahri in 203 (agree wit skitter). i further reply to jv and leave it there and ask everyone else for their reads. in post 221 andante is trying to process hogs "analytical" posts but cant; builds scumcase on ahri. GB finally comes in 223 apologizing and then leaving again. jv then replies to my earlier further replies to his earlier ones. jv starts townreading skitter. the ahri and andante interaction plays out in mostly all of page 10 and beginning of page 11. i tr andante. HoG comes in at 241 with TLDR of "My current reads are Fizz as town; 0-1 scum between skitter/pooky; you've been anti-town; rest unclear."

skitter starts a andante scumcase. (mainly starting on post 278). me and skitter have a small interaction starting post 266. pooky still thinks its me and jv. skitter brings the point of how andante says that me and jv were scum (saying maybe one scum inside) but wants to vote ahri instead. skitter thinks its me and andante. pooky is unsure. HoG agrees with skitter and votes andante. i call HoG out *starting post 300) however I unvote HoG (was voting them at the time as a reaction). HoG calls me out and votes me. i explain my part and HoG thinks i had a good rxn now. Andante starts getting annoyed how ahri is getting no attraction. GB comes in 303 saying Ahri is town. fizz comes out of nowhere questioning why ppl think she scum in post 306. its now andante vs ahri + skitter . ahri and skitter both have the claim of what i said earlier on why they thought andnate was scum at first. HoG townreads me and fizz. skitter point out andante could be alligned with pooky. i call out HoG for his analytical post diminish. GB comes in 356 with a bad quote saying they will catch up on reads and apologizes for lurking. andante and sktiter keep going at it starting post 360. HoG comes out of no where and says some weird stuff that looks like it makes sense but it doesnt; townreading ahri more than andatne i am assuming. post 377 HoG keeps referencing something other than the game; everyone gets confused. me and skitter end up having a friendly convo. skitter now trs me . andante thinks my read that "hog and andante is most likely same allignment" is tmi. andanate is still confused on skitter's read. ahri votes andante in 409. HoG self votes in 411. JV comes in 412 with their contribtution (go to post for specifics). me and jv unironically agree that pooker had a bad rxn and interaction wit skitter earlier on around post 320. i come up with the theory that if andante flips scum it was most likely a bus. skitter tries to get other opinions on their interaction and andante's quotes. pooky still thinks im scum. andante gets more annoyed that ahri isnt being pushed due to lack of contribution. i state i dont sus andante. andante, fizz, and me push for GB to talk. fizz notices my chnage of playstyle kek. andante explains further in page 19 of his scumread. pooky sheeps sktitter then votes andante. i give my reads in post 480. i think everyone collectivly townreads fizz up to post 485 with andantes reads on fizz townreading her as well. andante gives read on HoG in post 484. andante gives read on JV in post 487; scumreads JV backs away from the ahri push. 498, U join! welcome!!

okay so it isn't the best, but its at last something. i deserve some credit, this took me 45 mins to an hour just looking back at logs and etc. i hope you found this helpful.

irish use my tldr as a guide if u want also if u want more details on the jv and me interaction i responded to it responded wit a whole damn ass wallpost. im still giving it more attention and still giving my full analyis its not yet btw

[GrandpaMo]

so do u townread andante?

Maybe I haven't read the entire game as a whole, but why do you think Andante is scum? Only asking a question as I may have missed a post or two somewhere. Damn with these new players on board getting replaced with inactivity. This first day keeps getting longer. I wonder why unless again I miss a post on star handler voting for andante without a reason to do so. Seems like I got a lot to catch up on.

you always keep talking about you trying to catch up and stuff. please do. if you are willing to contribute as town please, i wanna hear from your reads. because first) i dont even scumread andante as I townread them. both skitter and ahri had hard scumread andante and now wheme all of a sudden. and pooky and jv i think scumlean towards andnate. please catch up, because idek why you were collectively townread in the beginning in the first place

[GrandpaMo]

Again disingenuous ^

I'm also starting to question fizz's 'oh no i cant read and cant make reads' thing

how ya doin mod: i shall be vla until monday again, with limited internet access for part of much of that time

This should be the last of it, apologies

smh when did u start sheeping me

[GrandpaMo]

UNVOTE: Ahri

I understand what your saying, but the thing is, you and Andante are the only players I know out of the four on the voting list. I know nothing about WhemeStar or Irish Dancer as I had no interactions with them whatsoever, so they are safe. You have helped me with the game, which I appreciate a lot, and Andante has put out a lot of reads. I don't want either of you to go, and I wish there was more time for me to go off to bed and sleep on it, but seeing I can't do that and that someone in this list has to be voted for. I'm sorry, as much as I appreciate you helping me with the game, giving me advice. I'm gonna have to vote for you as rubbish as this is personally, but I can't vote for new players, and I can't vote for someone who's putting tons of reads in.

VOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear

didnt u townread pooky...

[GrandpaMo]

I'm sorry for that rant. I'm just confused about what I have to do.

i literally questioned u on the reads wit pooky. because u townread them. ur voting two people who u townread? okay? there are like 6 other people, i think you can figure out who is scum. DO NOT LET ANYONE CONVINCE U TO VOTE SOMEONE ELSE JUST BY "vote adnate or whemestar" listen to your own reads and how you feel. if you think they are mafia, vote them. but the only reason i am questioning is just because you said earlier u townread pooky and ur voting them? thats all. no reason to get overdefensive.

[GrandpaMo]

I keep flip flopping on my Andante read, they keep pulling that excuse out of their ass as if they have a right to just do fuck all just because they're being SR but at the same time I understand that might be a feeling.

did u still want my oipinions on those games?

[GrandpaMo]

wait is the day over

[GrandpaMo]

this wagon is weird btw. i like how everyone scumread andante, and after ME who pointed out wheme's weird enterance to the game instantly scurmeading andante, everyone starts being paranoid and flip flopping.

[GrandpaMo]

Grandpa, Ahri. Why the heck did neither of you hammer it? Wheme even claimed VT. there was 0 harm in voting Wheme out. instead we literally just lost a mis elim.

ok uh 2 things. first i left around 8:55 am est already having the assumption that the day ended.

second, i thought someone was going getting voted out no matter what since there was still a majority.

also and 3rd, dont forget about skitter and irish.

[GrandpaMo]

Grandpa, Ahri. Why the heck did neither of you hammer it? Wheme even claimed VT. there was 0 harm in voting Wheme out. instead we literally just lost a mis elim.

ok uh 2 things. first i left around 8:55 am est already having the assumption that the day ended.

second, i thought someone was going getting voted out no matter what since there was still a majority.

also and 3rd, dont forget about skitter and irish.

sorry 9:55 am est***

[GrandpaMo]

Well I planned to self vote but I fell asleep as deadline was like 5 am my time.

this is such a scummy thing to sayyy

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: Wheme
I feel if they were Town they would have gotten hammered.

btw during the night, i did go check ur games, uve developed... in my opinion. so like when ur mafia ur more like memish and shit but when u flip town u get aggressive and usually initaite pushes. u get overdefnsive in both playstyles i have seen. i rlly dont know if ur maybe tryna get that to be like wifom?

[GrandpaMo]

ok so look. i think we win this game with this gamesolve. if one flips town move onto the next person: vote wheme >>> andante >>> ahri >>> irish >>> then possibly fizz.

i think this order gamesolves the game honestly. depending on who flips town or what; it will giv more finalized voting patterns which can change. but atp i think we should vote wheme of an info vote.

[GrandpaMo]

also would mafia to their optimal play claim VT? wouldn't wheme (if mafia) want to claim pr? or is it not really AI specifically to forumn since u don't have people there in realtime to unvote?

[GrandpaMo]

also and 3rd, dont forget about skitter and irish.

I was offline for like two days at the time and couldnt

yea i was just noticing how andante never pointed you out as well

[GrandpaMo]

Well I planned to self vote but I fell asleep as deadline was like 5 am my time.

this is such a scummy thing to sayyy

Y tho ...
Not convincef wheme is scum here tbh

why not?

[GrandpaMo]

ok so look. i think we win this game with this gamesolve. if one flips town move onto the next person: vote wheme >>> andante >>> ahri >>> irish >>> then possibly fizz.

i think this order gamesolves the game honestly. depending on who flips town or what; it will giv more finalized voting patterns which can change. but atp i think we should vote wheme of an info vote.

So you don't think I'm scum anymore? Also I thought you were hot on Andante being town?

look at what i said full context. im gamesolving thru vote patterns. i feel like the game will progress heavy and town may win using that pattern. we vote wheme they flip scum; that will change the pattern. we vote wheme they flip town, we vote off andante. sheesh o sheesh im just a gamer ok ?

[GrandpaMo]

Also where is the post Grandpa

loook at what i saidddd i said it up some time ago about looking at u and ur games. u didnt reply so im assuming u didnt see it. but uh i didnt get to do a whole analysis cuz i am on vaca, and two applications coming up and still doing them. been rlly procrasinating at mafia. today was a bad day:( but no excuses, i still gave you some analysis to ur older games as i did actually read up on some of ur games

[GrandpaMo]

How is it destroying town's chances to win, Jackson? It's more benefitting town than not claiming anything at all, doesn't it? Isn't that what you do? Last I checked, you can do that. I don't know what you mean by being lowkey, but it's the ones who are too quiet that are destroying town's chances to win man. What about IrishDancer who hasn't said anything since he got replaced?

LOL LMFAOOO im sorry but JV get rekt nubbb. jokes jokes @fizz, what jv was saying that u shouldnt have whatever u were claiming to be obvious because now mafia kills you at night. i was actually confused and didnt see until later. since the information is now exposed. can you fully claim?

[GrandpaMo]

Fizz Raab are all the possible scum from my current reads and all except one is posting really. This is bad, that and we missed one elim which is probably crucial.

Can you explain to me why I'm scum when I know clearly you're town from the action I had last night? I don't think you saw that post so how can I be scum if I claimed you as town?

ur claiming two things here. this isn't a jailkeeper claim. you are either claiming mafia rolecop or implying tracker.

[GrandpaMo]

again @fizz are you rolecop? i still want you to fully claim since you basically outted ur self.

[GrandpaMo]

again @fizz are you rolecop? i still want you to fully claim since you basically outted ur self.

No do not make them claim.

they literally claimed that you were town. how do that they know that? that you visited someone else? or that you are a MAFIA rolecop and got them as town. smh let me game for a sec and make them scumslip

[GrandpaMo]

Where has skitter even gone lately. Same with everyone really jesus

smh we are the top posters

[GrandpaMo]

I just hope fizz is scum that misplayed here. Otherwise we're pretty screwed

thats what im saying... fizz could have fucking scumslipped his pr result as rolecop LOL

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: WhemeStar

[GrandpaMo]

I feel ya Andante, I feel ya.

could that make andante like bored villy type shit?

[GrandpaMo]

Fizz, might as well claim who I visited and/or that you blocked me.

@fizz pls fucking claim now. i want you to claim and when i come back from work, i better have seen a result from you. you are either tracker or rolecop knowing that jv is town. this game is mountanious as it is. and its just gonna get hard from here.

[GrandpaMo]

I'm "insecure" simply because I think this game is a lost cause unless Ahri/Irish start posting a LOT more. Which they likely won't and even if they do, we have the odds seriously stacked against us.

trust my gamesolve

[GrandpaMo]

where did you townslip

LMAOO i usually do this as town: intentionally fake townslip and then call out my townslip. i see wheme doing this shit rn. but again WE VOTE WHEME HERE PLS. TRUST MY GAMESOLVE. DO NOT pivot. JV do not fucking pivot jsut because skitter thinks its town. We vote Andante tmr who is irish if wheme flips town

[GrandpaMo]

if mafia is skitter and jv town fucking loses here because there is no way other than me and PROBABLY fizz who may end up being paranoid and may get a push out onto them. but rn the vote here is still wheme. wheme said they townslip because they thought they were gonna get hammered or sum bs like that

[GrandpaMo]

You have said nothing about the game at all. And then when someone says your the correct vote because tomorrow were in lylo and you are providing 0 content you instantly hammer them and now we lose the game.

dont worry dont worry we vote irish tmr

[GrandpaMo]

AHHHH I THOGUHT I WAS LYNCHED OMG

@skitter this is where he supposedly townslipped lmfao

[GrandpaMo]

scumslip

VOTE: grandpa

what- how is that a scumslip lol

[GrandpaMo]

Hello. I have read most of the game. My current reads are My current solve would be GrandpaMo and Aahi. This is for a few reasons:
Most of the pushes have come from GrandpaMo. Meanwhile, Aahi is popping into the thread going with the same tunnel. This is very scummy, as no actual reasons have been given. However, everyone is ignoring this. No one can explain why, which gives even more reason for Aahi scum. GrandpaMo has been pushing, hard pushing on my townreads. There have been a lot of bad votes against WhemeStar and JV. GrandpaMo has hard pushed both of those eliminations. When WhemeStar then does an extremely towny reaction to getting fakehammered by Irish, GrandpaMo says: don't worry, still vote WhemeStar, get Irish tomorrow. Almost if you know they are both town. General Irish play here pings me asvery incompetent town, or told to do the vote in thescumchat. So, I see two possible scumteams.
Mo/Aahi
or someone/Irish.
GrandpaMo play also feels like mafia.gg scumplay. Usually tere is one scum controlling the entire game, pushing random people saying "don't worry vote this tomorroe"
VOTE: GrandpaMo

do not lie and maniuplate my context. tell me in the last 10 pages where i have pushed JV. tell me where. have you even read my two analysis iso's i did on them? i did not hardpush anyone besides pooky honestly. and now i just want a elim secured in the bag; dont want to have to keep dealing with pivoting.

[GrandpaMo]

Hello. I have read most of the game. My current reads are My current solve would be GrandpaMo and Aahi. This is for a few reasons:
Most of the pushes have come from GrandpaMo. Meanwhile, Aahi is popping into the thread going with the same tunnel. This is very scummy, as no actual reasons have been given. However, everyone is ignoring this. No one can explain why, which gives even more reason for Aahi scum. GrandpaMo has been pushing, hard pushing on my townreads. There have been a lot of bad votes against WhemeStar and JV. GrandpaMo has hard pushed both of those eliminations. When WhemeStar then does an extremely towny reaction to getting fakehammered by Irish, GrandpaMo says: don't worry, still vote WhemeStar, get Irish tomorrow. Almost if you know they are both town. General Irish play here pings me asvery incompetent town, or told to do the vote in thescumchat. So, I see two possible scumteams.
Mo/Aahi
or someone/Irish.
GrandpaMo play also feels like mafia.gg scumplay. Usually tere is one scum controlling the entire game, pushing random people saying "don't worry vote this tomorroe"
VOTE: GrandpaMo

do not lie and maniuplate my context. tell me in the last 10 pages where i have pushed JV. tell me where. have you even read my two analysis iso's i did on them? i did not hardpush anyone besides pooky honestly. and now i just want a elim secured in the bag; dont want to have to keep dealing with pivoting.

you're completly ignorning real other pushes who had a way more significant premise. i never wanted to vote andante. never pushed them. skitter wanted to push to them. and initaited that push. JV also did at one point and there was another push; i forgot but i think JV also initaited the whemestar push or actually ur slot nvm. and then everyone i think started sheeping u

[GrandpaMo]

i don't think i'm comfortable putting you in the townbloc just now tbh

i actually like this guy... way more interactive. i did townread ur slot and still do honestly. poe is just ahri/wheme/irish. but i really want you to read everything; because i feel like u arent rlly looking at this at the right way.

[GrandpaMo]

this whole time i thought andante was irish lol

[GrandpaMo]

all i want to say is we vote wheme then irish. and i think we win following that vote pattern. pooky will be proud of me in post game after i get this game solve done on day 2 . BTW where TF is fizz! please fully claim already and stop stalling with useless quotes by ignorning/deflecting town. Scum already knows you are either tracker or rolecop. Out your self and your notes!

[GrandpaMo]

How am i looking at it wrong

not u, i meant to direct it to TC

[GrandpaMo]

I'm not voting wheme and nobody has explained to me why i should be

wheme is scum for easily coming into the game and boom scumreading andante for no reason. just felt like a cheap way for mafia just to budge into the game after "analysis" was done making them to scumread anadante as well. idk just looked like a blantant sheep to me. also i thought there was a scum quote here in post 1082 where they claim no one has info besides fizz. yes that is true but why are you blantanly sure that fizz has info? just seems like mafia is def inclined to ignore pr claims and go on because hey they now they talked to this is in scumchat and their gameplan is to kill fizz tonight. also they question the nl. yes we dont NL but NL and then wanting to go onto irish? just feels like an easy condemn that is exactly why the vote pattern is here (wheme then irish) because if wheme flips town then irish is obviously most likely outted which i doubt will happen. if wheme flips scum we know that irish is most likely town since everyone know is pressuring them. mafia could be on this pressure hence why wheme questioned the nl in post 1020 and proceeds to continue pushing irish.

[GrandpaMo]

I already explained earlier that I didn't see Jackson go anywhere. So there you have it. Now can we focus on the quiet people like Irish and Ahri to post now who haven't been helpful Grandpa. Why haven't you been chasing them for them to post?

i rlly like this from fizz; aggressive playstyle. nice. +town

[GrandpaMo]

Fizz literally claimed pr and nobody is cc'ing her, she's therefore conftown, you dont need to read her anymore >.>

lol they arent conf conf lmao i just want their notes

[GrandpaMo]

Fizz literally claimed pr and nobody is cc'ing her, she's therefore conftown, you dont need to read her anymore >.>

honestly my plan was to make them role reveal so they can hopefully scumslip as rolecop hence why i kept saying tracker or rolecop in my notes... if they claimed rolecop we def know that they are mafia lol

[GrandpaMo]

Fizz literally claimed pr and nobody is cc'ing her, she's therefore conftown, you dont need to read her anymore >.>

honestly my plan was to make them role reveal so they can hopefully scumslip as rolecop hence why i kept saying tracker or rolecop in my notes... if they claimed rolecop we def know that they are mafia lol

This was an awful plan no offense, and kinda scummy
We dont want to make her role reveal

??? isn't she outted tracker? she litreally said jv was town that means she was tracker. she already rred by saying jv didnt visit or anything. thats why jv was mad in the first place because jv scumread them to protect them but fizz didnt take the hint lmao.

[GrandpaMo]

wheme is scum for easily coming into the game and boom scumreading andante for no reason. just felt like a cheap way for mafia just to budge into the game after "analysis" was done making them to scumread anadante as well. idk just looked like a blantant sheep to me. also i thought there was a scum quote here in post 1082 where they claim no one has info besides fizz. yes that is true but why are you blantanly sure that fizz has info? just seems like mafia is def inclined to ignore pr claims and go on because hey they now they talked to this is in scumchat and their gameplan is to kill fizz tonight. also they question the nl. yes we dont NL but NL and then wanting to go onto irish? just feels like an easy condemn that is exactly why the vote pattern is here (wheme then irish) because if wheme flips town then irish is obviously most likely outted which i doubt will happen. if wheme flips scum we know that irish is most likely town since everyone know is pressuring them. mafia could be on this pressure hence why wheme questioned the nl in post 1020 and proceeds to continue pushing irish.

Uhhhhh
- i'm not sure if you're correct in ascribing scummy motivation to wheme's early andante scumread when she had so clearly been scummy (which you're ignoring)
- why canr have town him seen the analysis that was made prior to him repping in and deciding to agree with it .... why is this a scummy action for him
- again fizz is literally the pr. Dont understand why you're saying its scummy of wheme to say fizz has info when fizz literally has info, its just a fact. Acknowledging the fact isnt scummy. In yout next sentence you say that mafia is inclined go ignore pr claims but you're scumreading him.for acknowledging a pr claim, which doesn't make sense
- you agree thay we dont want a nl so why is it scummy that he agrees we dont want a nl
- dont understand the last like three sentences

This doesn't really answer my question and you contradicted yourself like 4 times here

i had a whole post analysis of this but it got deleted

i will try to recapiulate the info

1st point: On what I said specifically outlines Wheme's narrative of coming into the game and claiming having reads or at least some analysis to be made and then just only pointing out Andante. People also came out and pointed how that was scummy of Wheme to just focus on Andante when Andante was already being pushed. There is a tad bit of bias in your reasoning because obviously in my timeframe I did not think Andante is scummy but you had and you pushed that narrative of Andante being scummy.

2nd point: The problem with that is that, that was literally basically the ONLY read done by them after that analysis. (They even claimed to have done some reading). After many interactions happening between different people, there were surely more reads to be done but that was ONLY after we pushed them to get reads out on other players and after me and JV and others found it scummy of them to just pinpoint Andante like that.

3rd point: Yes while that is true, it isn't about the information being already there, it is how it was presented. Mafia is more inclined to just relapse judgment and bring a sense of confirmation PUBLICLY and say that fizz is a pr. Think about it this way, would you have publicly reiterate information that was already known to you? No, especially when it was directed at another player, you would have it in your mind but never you know keep outting it or make it known to mafia more. What I meant by that sentence is like, they are ignoring information by acknowledging it. For example, "So blah blah is scummy. Fizz is also PR. Blah Blah Blah is towny" Do you know what I mean? They reiterated unnecessary info (in that context specifically) that is easily ignored later on.

4th point: Again, the way they presented specifically questioning it to another person just made it seem something that scum we need to reiterate. Why would you have the time as town to just ask the question...? It is like they wanted to get a condemn out there and make it known to the rest of town that "hey we are going to condemn, and this condemn is going to be town because I am mafia" I really don't know how to explain it. But wheme was the only one to point it out and then others disagreed in the sense of it? Such as you for example, saying it isn't completely inherently scummy for them to do it. But I don't know the full context, just seems like another way at attacking.

5th point: You have been playing for years... I think you should know what I meant. There is scum in one. If one is town then the other is scum vice versa. That isn't really how I want to put it but in MORE simpler terms that's it what usually it means. I have a more complex convenience on my vote pattern specifically voting Wheme first then Irish is just outted if wheme flips town.

I hope you understand now. Sorry for the late response, I had school.

[GrandpaMo]

We are voting ahri... when tf did this pivot happened? I knew that we pivoted some while back but I didn't really think it would actually you know be the vote. Weird. Everyone scumread wheme/irish (besides skitter nd someone else maybe) then just followed Andante's plan of voting of Andante on WHICH JV + Skitter you thought andante was scummy. JV, I do not know how you are on Andante actually because I really haven't seen a clear read on perhaps. If you don't mind me asking, what is your finalized read on T3?

[GrandpaMo]

GM IRISH
input?

Honestly I am down to vote Ahri here, since it was your original spot's scumread and I did townread Andante and still do. So I would follow my townread's scumread. However I still am more willing to vote Wheme just because I do want to trust a confirmed town (pooky)'s read on how mafia is just more inclined to give more info to look town? specifically early game. Then you saw ahri posting more and contributing when really pressured. That could just be an easy mafia tell but would they really make it that obvious?

Perhaps they do. Perhaps they don't.