Newbie 2064 - (GG)

[JamesTheNames]

Hello I am JamesTheNames. I have replaced Salsa, fingers crossed this is a good game, and we can have fun, I will try my best to win though. I'm going to go over the game now, and there'll be 2 posts I follow this up with, one will be just a pure, gut-instinct read list/lean list, this is to be taken with a pinch of salt as it is just based off of gut-feel. I'll then reread it more closely, and I'll see what I can do from there.

[JamesTheNames]

I will try my best to win though.

so weird from the get go

I'll take this a compliment. Thank you.

Take the following with a pinch of salt,

gut-feels

Scummiest in no particular order:
JacksonVirgo, Fizz Raab, Orctin, Penguin_Alien
Meh in no particular order:
Dum, NinjaStore, Humaneatingmonkey (I like this name), Navigator
Towniest in no particular order:
Micc, Cabd

This was my first read over of all the messages, I'll read them again, try to link things/unlink things. Fingers crossed it goes well. There are many mehs because it is based off of vibe not anything particularly concrete, this will be fixed.

[JamesTheNames]

My opinions on Fizz Raab

Spoiler:

I'm sorry, how does overexplaining stuff this class as a scum move? I think voting for me over this is absolotely ridiclilous. What's wrong with overexplaining something? Please tell me.

so you agree, you're overexplaining?

So what if I am. It still doesn't classify as a scum move and a ridiclious reason to vote me.

I am not completely aware with the normal tone of this forum, this feels rather passive aggressive to me. I think the term is flaking? Acting suspiciously under any pressure.

So what if I am. It still doesn't classify as a scum move and a ridiclious reason to vote me.

What classifies as a scum move in your opinion?

For one people voting without a reason for it. People who just do short posts without a reasoning for it. I think this is one dumb vote on your part. Why is the guy your defending classifies as town?

Humaneatingmonkey, run. Your posts range from 20 words to 64 words, I am curious how short short must be, this is seeing an 8 calling it an 8, then seeing an upside down 8 and calling it a 6. I wouldn't mind more clarification as to what you think is or isn't Alignment indicative, my personal opinion is post length isn't indicative but can be a nod in a direction with enough context. Very curious to see how JacksonVirgo responds to post 150, I don't expect them to be satisfied with the answer.

My opinions on orctin

Spoiler:

This is total setup for me to hammer Micc - he's at E-1 i believe. At the moment he is high on my scum list but ending day early is generally a bad play. I'd rather allow him a chance to post before a hammer vote goes down

Aside from Micc i dont have much of a town/scum read otherwise really, it's just to early for me to draw those kind of conclusions. but some basic thoughts to help start people down that road.

Fizz Raab - playing the newbie card early
Salsabil Faria - seems knowledgeable on the game - countered to Micc's early push
Dum - new to forum game - able to speculate new opinion and pushed on missing player,
NinjaStore - Strong enough player to stand up for opinion
navigatorv - brought up a no-elim possibility which seems to be counter to most people here, strong enough to push back with some sound reasoning against micc
JacksonVirgo - Joke vote to myself just because we knew each other most likely - started out slow last time i seen him and seems to be doign the same - no read at this point
Micc - Seems quick to throw out heat to someone hoping to build quick attention on someone, pushed for someone to play a certain way but failed to back up his own simple reasoning
humaneatingmonkey-dsjstr - just replaced into game - simple post and vote - not much to read yet but was quick to throw a vote out there.

Why so many null reads? I apologise if I misunderstood your reasoning for voting Micc, but it is due to voting with not much justification and/or voting for the sake of voting. 12 (I think this is how this works?) should alter your read for Navigator, 50 should alter your read for Dum, 13 and 26 are you doing the same as what you are claiming Micc did, I won't stop you explaining why they are different, seems like feigning activity / lurking / voting for the sake of voting but, each to their own, and to their own each.

My opinions on Dum

Spoiler:

103
I do understand the idea behind this, see who "hammers", voila we found scum. I don't like that I'm interpreting this as town lean. I really don't. From my perspective it doesn't make sense for Scum to do this. It ruins your late game claims I would assume, "if they were scum why didn't they go to hammer?".

Anyway that's been adressed a bunch already, the other issue with the post:

1-navigatorv. As of right now, everything they have done looks extremely townie to me, especially with the reads they have been posting (Wich i mostly agree with).

So you disagree regarding Jackson, Salsabil (myself), these slots aren't scum in your eyes, they are neutral. As of post 103 navigatorv viewed orctin as town, you didn't, post 80 implied (loosely) a town lean on Dum, both of these you view as neutral. I can't help but to see this as not helpful, if you don't have reads on somebody, say you don't have reads on somebody, or just make something up for content. Regardless the main issue at hand:

The Micc vote justification? You are suspicious of him because he is overexplaining things, you look at past games he has had a stake in, and your conclusion as to what is most likely, is that he is trying to help people "understand the game and have fun". I don't understand. I am confused.

My opinions on JacksonVirgo

Spoiler:

I don't understand why their vote didn't move to navigatorv pre post 130. On the note of post 130:

Also I disagree with Orc, they will not defend themselves properly and we won't get any pressure reads until they get pushed on. Again not voting but throwing intent is meaningless.

Why didn't you move your vote onto Dum? You considered him to be "scummy" along with the player I replaced, they do something, overall seen as scummy, yet you sit back and don't vote? Instead the vote hovers around a player who wasn't around. As of this very moment I think you are the scum duo.

My opinions on humaneatingmonkey

Spoiler:

I mean, he is clear about what he likes and doesn't like, posts for fun, I have no issues with this, he may not enjoy walls, but a "why" wouldn't hurt to have. Meh.

My opinions on Micc

Spoiler:

Explains himself, nice. I would have preferred no 112, would've made the Dum gambit more useful for everyone, but being open has its benefits also. I also appreciate his comments on how people are playing, he said he'll catch up, I'm hoping when he does, he'll comment on the Dum comment, and the little quarrel between Navigatorv and JacksonVirgo. Basically he feels like what orctin was attempting earlier ^, but done with a much more town oriented aura.

My opinions on NinjaTools

Spoiler:

Please post more. Why didn't you put Dum on E-2 in 165? Why didn't you vote for Micc after your 44?

My opinions on Navigatorv

Spoiler:

It appears he is actually bothered by certain people's post quality and relavance, annoyance at lack of content being created, I'm not very experienced but this just feels towny to me

Individually, Fizz Raab, or orctin are the scummiest, but of course, there are 2 scum out there. JacksonVirgo and Dum as a scum duo makes sense to me, even though individually they aren't the most scummy, but when I consider them in conjunction, it makes sense to me.
This can easily change based on the response to this post, I don't want to be stubborn and cause issues.

UNVOTE: Micc
VOTE: Dum
This puts Dum at E-2.

By the way, if anybody really wants content just say so.

[JamesTheNames]

Can the both of you try to get along? The game is for fun, people post some posts for fun. The three of us are all voting Dum, let's focus on that instead of bickering.

[JamesTheNames]

Wait a fuckin' second. You are the salsa slot. Why are you refusing to acknowledge I am voting your slot

All of the pressure from a vote with no sustanence or logic forces me to respond to it. You don't have to scum read someone to vote for them. You could just go down the route of "oh that seems suspicious", "oh that could apply some nice pressure", "I keep pushing very aggressively against somebody, and my push is focused on someone not wanting to be voted, maybe I should vote them and test the hypothesis."
Mainly the last one.

[JamesTheNames]

I will try my best to win though.

so weird from the get go

I'll take this a compliment. Thank you.

Take the following with a pinch of salt,

gut-feels

Scummiest in no particular order:
JacksonVirgo, Fizz Raab, Orctin, Penguin_Alien
Meh in no particular order:
Dum, NinjaStore, Humaneatingmonkey (I like this name), Navigator
Towniest in no particular order:
Micc, Cabd

This was my first read over of all the messages, I'll read them again, try to link things/unlink things. Fingers crossed it goes well. There are many mehs because it is based off of vibe not anything particularly concrete, this will be fixed.

Explain these reads

Penguin_Alien posted once and disappeared, absolutely lurking.
As for the rest: No.

[JamesTheNames]

Wait a fuckin' second. You are the salsa slot. Why are you refusing to acknowledge I am voting your slot

All of the pressure from a vote with no sustanence or logic forces me to respond to it. You don't have to scum read someone to vote for them. You could just go down the route of "oh that seems suspicious", "oh that could apply some nice pressure", "I keep pushing very aggressively against somebody, and my push is focused on someone not wanting to be voted, maybe I should vote them and test the hypothesis."
Mainly the last one.

I have no clue what you're saying. I have already said I scum-read your slot and Dums and I have made it obviously so, yet you're saying that you thought it was a pressure vote or something? That is the strangest thing I've heard so far.

You then appear in the thread, completely ignoring the fact that I am voting you, then you go and ask why I am not voting Dum when it's quite obvious if you read the game (which by your wording I am assuming you have) why I am not, as I've already said why. Then you say you have the strongest scum-read on myself, without explaining it at all and then in a later post you say how your read on me is not from me as an individual but as an associative read with me and dum. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is insane.

This was me being foolish and getting navigatorv and Dum mixed up in my head, I do apologise.
Your whole issue with Salsa was they apologised.

[JamesTheNames]

I will try my best to win though.

so weird from the get go

I'll take this a compliment. Thank you.

Take the following with a pinch of salt,

gut-feels

Scummiest in no particular order:
JacksonVirgo, Fizz Raab, Orctin, Penguin_Alien
Meh in no particular order:
Dum, NinjaStore, Humaneatingmonkey (I like this name), Navigator
Towniest in no particular order:
Micc, Cabd

This was my first read over of all the messages, I'll read them again, try to link things/unlink things. Fingers crossed it goes well. There are many mehs because it is based off of vibe not anything particularly concrete, this will be fixed.

Explain these reads

Penguin_Alien posted once and disappeared, absolutely lurking.
As for the rest: No.

Thank you for strengthening my read on you.

You are very welcome, feel free to read the post I did before that, explaining it was a gut feel post, or to read the post following this which were actual reads.

[JamesTheNames]

Something which I forgot to mention with JacksonVirgo:

All of the pressure from a vote with no sustanence or logic forces me to respond to it. You don't have to scum read someone to vote for them. You could just go down the route of "oh that seems suspicious", "oh that could apply some nice pressure", "I keep pushing very aggressively against somebody, and my push is focused on someone not wanting to be voted, maybe I should vote them and test the hypothesis."
Mainly the last one.

This post, where I got stuff mixed up in my head, my mistake, is referring to Navigatorv, Jackson's main issue with Navigatorv is the idea that Navigatorv is scared of being voted for, for some reason doesn't vote on this, and instead hovers an, at the time, AFK slot, due to them apologising.

[JamesTheNames]

You're still misrepresenting me dude

"I am voting Salsa since the read on Dum isn't super strong but they've been overly apologetic which I am thinking may be them doing so to "protect" themselves from any slips they make, which I also think is a subconscious act since they're new to the site."
Voting because of apologising.
post 130: I would rather focus on Dum or Salsa
You have an actual case against Dum, why aren't you going for that?
You have a bit of a case against Navigatorv, why aren't you going for that?
UNVOTE: Dum
VOTE: JacksonVirgo

[JamesTheNames]

Wait, I'm a bit confused, whe did Jackson think that I was scared of being voted? I remember HEM thought that but can't remember Jackson ever saying anything like that?

I don't think I've said that either

The end of 124

[JamesTheNames]

Wait, duh, I just reread the previous posts and I think I understand what you were trying to say. You think that me and Jackson are the scum pair and that's why they didn't vote for me despite seeming to think I'm acting out of fear of backlash, is that right?

No, Dum and Jackson, there was only 1 post I got you and Dum confused in.

[JamesTheNames]

Anyway, ignoring the mess, the point stands, it is really suspicious that they didn't vote Dum. The whole game they said they were suspicious of Dum, admittedly alongside me/Salsa, but they were suspicious of Dum all game. Dum starts to be in the spotlight, JacksonVirgo decides, you know what, I was suspicious of Dum all the game, there's a wagon forming on Dum, there's no point in voting someone I think is scummy. All of JacksonVirgo's repsonses in Post 130, would completely justify voting Dum.
"If I really wanted to spark fighting I would be aiding in the push of Orc or Micc not try and start a new wagon as that would put attention more on myself which would be counter-intuitive."
By post 130, a wagon was already forming on Dum, and they think Dum is scummy or warranting of suspicion.
"Also I disagree with Orc, they will not defend themselves properly and we won't get any pressure reads until they get pushed on. Again not voting but throwing intent is meaningless."
This is referring to the Dum wagon, once again, they find Dum to be suspicious or scummy, so why don't they vote.
I also present to you: Post 139
"Also if you haven't got much to work with, make them by voting other's you think is likely scum, communicate between other perspectives and get responses from those you are pushing. This will create the necessary content. We can't just sit around idle waiting for scum to out themselves."
How does pushing someone, essentially afk, "get responses from those you are pushing". How is not jumping on a wagon you find suspicious not "sit around idle waiting for scum to out themselves"?

I'm convinced completely, it is to feign suspicions of Dum, correct me if I'm mistaken, but Dum hasn't been a strong town read this game, and a fair few of us have been suspicious at at least one point, so why else would they pretend to be suspicious of Dum, if not because they are scum buddies, wanting to subtly distance themselves?

The slot I replaced into, barely posted, fair enough. They were never as big of a focus as Micc was. They say they don't want to start a wagon because they don't want attention. Why wouldn't they want attention? Town loves attention, they know they're Town, they don't have to worry about making mistakes like Scum do. They are trying to get everybody else to vote. They are trying to fly under the radar, to distance themselves from their scum duo (Dum).

@JacksonVirgo, what would it take for you to actually vote Dum? Do you need a cop to reveal Dum as scum? Do you want to wait until there is less attention on him? You're suspicious of him, other people are suspcious or wary of him, you have a prime time to apply pressure.

I apologisse for the lack of organisation and neatness in the last few posts.
I am 99% these are the duo, entirely based on JacksonVirgo.

[JamesTheNames]

Newbie 2064 - One vs. One Hundred

Moderator: Cabd
Backup Moderator and Dialogue Snark-Author: Penguin_Alien

Are you a bad enough dude(t) to take on the mob and win? Let's find out...

The flavor is purely for our (players+mods) collective enjoyment and has no effect whatsoever on the NewD3 newbie game setup and rules. This game will borrow imagery and flavor, as is my whimsy, from old television game shows, but will avoid spoilers for the results of those shows unless completely unavoidable.

Anyway, ignoring the mess, the point stands, it is really suspicious that they didn't vote Dum. The whole game they said they were suspicious of Dum, admittedly alongside me/Salsa, but they were suspicious of Dum all game. Dum starts to be in the spotlight, JacksonVirgo decides, you know what, I was suspicious of Dum all the game, there's a wagon forming on Dum, there's no point in voting someone I think is scummy. All of JacksonVirgo's repsonses in Post 130, would completely justify voting Dum.

Why should I vote Dum, who I only scum-read mainly from gut over someone I have logic against. Why should I vote Dum, when I have a stronger read on someone else. You're assuming my read on Dum is stronger, when it's not. You keep assuming my logic on Salsa is "just them apologizing" when that's not the case at all. And I am the one that actually started throwing suspicion onto Dum before everybody else so your logic here is completely wrong. Your logic only stands if my only scum-read is Dum, which is completely not the case.

"If I really wanted to spark fighting I would be aiding in the push of Orc or Micc not try and start a new wagon as that would put attention more on myself which would be counter-intuitive."
By post 130, a wagon was already forming on Dum, and they think Dum is scummy or warranting of suspicion.

I started the fucking wagon dude, if I wanted to spark more fighting I wouldn't have done that as if I were scum, I would have no idea that it would take weight so fast.

"Also I disagree with Orc, they will not defend themselves properly and we won't get any pressure reads until they get pushed on. Again not voting but throwing intent is meaningless."
This is referring to the Dum wagon, once again, they find Dum to be suspicious or scummy, so why don't they vote.

This is starting to get hilariously insane. I keep saying I have more suspicion on your slot, so why would I vote elsewhere.

I also present to you: Post 139
"Also if you haven't got much to work with, make them by voting other's you think is likely scum, communicate between other perspectives and get responses from those you are pushing. This will create the necessary content. We can't just sit around idle waiting for scum to out themselves."
How does pushing someone, essentially afk, "get responses from those you are pushing". How is not jumping on a wagon you find suspicious not "sit around idle waiting for scum to out themselves"?

Check my last response. It's not hard dude

I'm convinced completely, it is to feign suspicions of Dum, correct me if I'm mistaken, but Dum hasn't been a strong town read this game, and a fair few of us have been suspicious at at least one point, so why else would they pretend to be suspicious of Dum, if not because they are scum buddies, wanting to subtly distance themselves?

What are you saying here? Null-read does not mean they're a scum-read what is your point.

The slot I replaced into, barely posted, fair enough. They were never as big of a focus as Micc was. They say they don't want to start a wagon because they don't want attention. Why wouldn't they want attention? Town loves attention, they know they're Town, they don't have to worry about making mistakes like Scum do. They are trying to get everybody else to vote. They are trying to fly under the radar, to distance themselves from their scum duo (Dum).

It does not matter how much they've posted. Their overall tone and the way they've been speaking is hugely filled with self-preservation. What the fuck are you even saying about attention, it is clear Salsa didn't want to be in the middle of it all and then you say Town loves attention, you're essentially saying that your slot

is

scum.

@JacksonVirgo, what would it take for you to actually vote Dum? Do you need a cop to reveal Dum as scum? Do you want to wait until there is less attention on him? You're suspicious of him, other people are suspcious or wary of him, you have a prime time to apply pressure.

When I feel the time is right, if you flip Town Dum is who I would next bet is scum it's not this hard to get in your head is it? Jesus.

I apologisse for the lack of organisation and neatness in the last few posts.
I am 99% these are the duo, entirely based on JacksonVirgo.

Why would you waste time on a wagon gaining no ground. There's another person you're suspicious of. It is simple that you'd decide to turn attention to that person, from any pressure you would have applied, you could've determined a lot. I wouldn't call that insane. It isn't like I am saying to never vote me or my previous slot again. Before I joined this game you were pushing others to vote Dum, not my slot. I don't know why this is not obvious.

[JamesTheNames]

Ignore the first bit of my last post that was an accident.

[JamesTheNames]

[quote="In post 211I think Jackson only votes for what they think are scum moves. Even if I was scared of backlash, that doesn't necessarily mean I'm scum

This is actually Town, I am fairly confident in this from this post. And to comment on this, that is indeed how I play. Just because an action may seem scummy or anti-town from the surface, does not mean that it comes from scum. Look deeper or you'll fall for false rabbit holes

why is this town? to be honest I'm reading navigator as scum here[/quote]
Jackson thinks it is town indicative because it supports them.

[JamesTheNames]

And you are wrong if you think I'm scum when I've been way more helpful than HumanEatingMonkey has. Tell me what is alright with HumanEatingMonkey doing short posts without any information or real contribution to the game? Please explain your thoughts because I rather give out full details with my overexplaining things than having one post liners which is ridiclious to think that's fun when really, it does absolutely nothing to help with this game. Are you scum I wonder as well if your sticking up for someone being clear on likes and dislike posts and one liners. How is that not suspious to you?

I don't mind if someone posts 10 walls in a row, or 100 one liners in a row. You said you think short posts are scummy. I don't think it alone can be indicative of anything. Could HumanEatingMonkey contribute more? I guess? Is it scum indicative? No.

[JamesTheNames]

Comments are in purple inside the spoilers.

Sounds like everybody's been having a hell of a last few days, myself included.
I think I've got my emotions more under control though, so apologies for the emotional instability I showed to a few of you.

Since no one's really posted anything, I guess now's probably a decent time for me to post my reads from everyone. I'm re-reading everyone's posts as I write this, so this is probably gonna be long since I'll comment on everything that jumps out at me.

Now, from the top based on the order we were initially listed in:

orctin

Spoiler:

To start, he had the opportunity to hammer Micc and chose not to. There are a few reasons he might choose to do this, both town and scum:
-First is his stated reasoning, he wanted to give Micc a chance to defend himself and also didn't want day one to end early, obviously a townplay.

Could have been scum hunting for a power role.

-Second, he and Micc could be scum and he was trying to keep his buddy alive in a way that didn't look suspicious. Now that Micc isn't in everyone's headlights, he feels safer bussing him.
-Third, he didn't want to look suspicious by hammering without anything decisive, something which applies to both scum and town.

It would have been E-1 not a hammer.

There are more possibilities, but those three seem the most likely.
The next thing I noticed was his defense of Salsa, which was admittedly pretty weak (93 assuming I'm formatting that right?). As I have my suspicions about Salsa's slot, that feels a little suspect, but nothing extreme.

It was an observation of what a person's good at not a defence, he did this for everybody and they were all weak if you consider them defences.

Next was Dum's trap, which, once again, shows very little about orctin and more about the main two the trap involved. One thing I'm curious about is what he meant by a "better vote choice". Saying it that way seems less like he's voting based on who I thinks is the most scummy and more like he's focusing on which wagons have formed. It might just be me reading too much into it, but I couldn't help but notice that.
The last thing he did before he stopped posting for a few days was inform Dum that he was considering casting his vote on him. As Jackson noted, expressing intent to vote without actually doing so does little to apply pressure to anyone, so I'm not sure if this was a genuine intimidation tactic or something meant to seem town-aligned without actually advancing the game forward.

There's a difference between intent to vote and considering changing your vote.

Then there's his break, which could be lurking with an excuse or could be genuine. As someone with plenty of irl shit going on though, I'm inclined to believe him, cause lying about stuff like that just for an advantage in a game is really not cool.

Overall impression: Mixed. He's done a number of things that might suggest scum activity, but nothing concrete.

Fizz Raab

Spoiler:

Mentioned having previous experience but not much, and that she screwed up somehow in her last game.
One odd thing to me is her reasoning for voting Micc was due to the same reason I did, him throwing a vote out for no reason. What makes it odd is that she waited until nearly two full days after his post to find this suspicious. It's important to note that this was after both I and Salsa had voted for him, which tells me that she was waiting for a bandwagon to form before placing her vote.
When HEM commented on her post being overexplained, she reacted very strongly to it. Admittedly the reasoning for voting her was very weak, so I can understand some of her reaction, though it does feel a little much.

Glad we agreed on this.

Her back and forth with HEM continued for some time and when he asked her what she thought was a scum move, she basically described his playing style yet didn't vote for him implying either that she still found Micc more suspicious or that who she votes for doesn't truly matter to her.

Could have been a fake reasoning. This was pointing out.

Her next post was a solid two days later and only came after James had voiced that she was one of the top individual suspects, though he didn't vote her. Again her reaction was very heated despite the fact that most of the attention from that post hadn't even been directed at her specifically. She then turned the heat towards HEM for his one-line spams, which, while that could be a scum tactic (see my analysis on him for more on that), by itself isn't really indicative of anything. She cited catching a scum in her last game for using the same tactic (I'd presume this has nothing to do with her screw up, but as I don't find looking at meta that doesn't directly involve the current game fun, I have no way to say for sure), which feels like she's confusing correlation with causation.

Overall impression: Feeling scummy. While there's a chance that being relatively new can explain some of her odd behavior, so much of it together with no real town indicators is making me feel kind of suspicious.

Salsabil Faria and JamesTheNames

Spoiler:

Since they share the same slot, I'll be covering both together since I feel like their similarities can tell us more about their role than an individual analysis.
Salsa's initial post was a simple vote with little valid reasoning behind it, nothing really suspect their since we were still in the RVS stage. She later swapped to Micc for finding his argument too much of a stretch (either scum trying to add to a wagon that might actually keep momentum or a townie who felt that was scum-indicative).
She posted a reply to one of my counterarguments to Micc that was simply her giving me "town points". Seems like she was trying to appear to be contributing (and possibly pocket me/help strengthen her own vote) without actually doing so in any meaningful capacity.
When Jackson pointed this out, she responded with some sarcasm (that feels very passive aggressive to me) before proceeding to her counterargument, which, while petty, isn't necessarily AI on its own.

75 was passive aggressive, its a response in kind.

Micc asked her what her response to one of my posts that seemed to vindicate him somewhat was, but got no response as she quit shortly after. She did admit to having exams so it's entirely possible that those were simply taking up too much time or it could be that she wasn't able to keep up with the pressure of her role and needed to hand it off. Since she's no longer here we can only speculate, but again, I'd like to believe that most people wouldn't make up irl issues to avoid losing a game.
That brings us to James who immediately began with a gut feeling read list and then did his best to stop the fight between HEM and myself. These actions could be town but could just as easily be scum pretending to be town.
He then posted a much longer analysis that I don't entirely understand certain points of:
-His read on orctin lists a number of posts that should've affected orctin's reads supposedly, but upon examining them myself I don't really see how they conflict with what orctin posted.

Dum's 50 is doing what Micc did, with less justification. Also considering it was rather early in the game, he should have also been bothered by more "RVS" votes, if we has truly bothered by Micc's.

-His read on Dum has him begin with saying he understood the reason for Dum's gambit, but then he got confused as to why he voted for Micc during it (despite voting for Micc literally being the key point of the trap, without which it wouldn't have worked in any capacity).

Dum listed 3 possibilities for what Micc is doing, basically, he is just being helpful, he is leading town, or he is pretending to be useful. Dum then goes on to say, that he thinks the first option,

just being helpful

is the most likely, then procedes to vote for him. If this makes a dot of sense to you I emplore you to explain it, thank you.

-His read on Jackson feels like a "why are you targeting my slot?" post that would only work if Jackson hadn't already explained their reasoning as to why they didn't vote Dum instead.

Jackson had 2 main suspicious all game, Dum, and my slot. When you pressure somebody and nothing comes out of it, be it they are afk, lurking, ignoring your posts, it makes completely sense to fall back onto your other suspicious slot. Instead of actually impacting the game with their vote, they opted to leave it on a player who wasn't responding or posting. They have gone on a lot about how expressing intent to vote has no impact, this is the same thing, but potentially worse. If they had any actual level of suspicion for Dum, they would have opted to apply pressure onto Dum. especially considering they're at least somewhat experienced, after the added pressure onto Dum and his responses, Jackson could have easily gone "You know what, Dum isn't actually scummy" or "You know what, Dum is actually really scummy". Why did they not do this? To distance themselves from Dum, to pretend to have an impact. They push everyone else to vote and apply pressure, so they can sit back and not get any suspicions around them. Also if it was a revenge vote for voting my slot, I wouldn't have voted Dum first.

-Asked NinjaStore to post more despite NinjaStore literally being camping for most of the game thus far which I don't get, especially with how many others have gone long periods without saying anything.
After this Jackson pointed out a very important detail (that he made no comment about them voting for his slot) which he responded to by more or less dodging the question and asking why Jackson hadn't voted for me or Dum instead. He then proceeded to vote for them which doesn't seem like it was based on actual logic and more like a revenge vote since he couldn't convince them to target someone else.

I did respond to this. 189

Their feud continued for some time, but eventually James stopped responding (not sure if it was due to being unable to counterargue or simply feeling like things were going nowhere, both seem entirely possible).
Fizz Raab then took issue with his read on her and HEM (which I went into detail on in her analysis), but he managed to shut down her argument using some fairly decent logic (though there is some issue with HEM's posting, it's not quite as simple as Fizz made it out to be).

Overall impression: Scum-leaning. There are a few more town indicators for this slot than for Fizz Raab, but there's still quite a bit fishy that I can't quite believe is town activity for the time being.

Dum

Spoiler:

He was the first to defend Micc and accused at least one of the 3 voters (myself, Salsa, and NinjaStore) of being scum. He also claimed that the person he voted on hadn't posted still but didn't change his vote until I pointed it out. Honestly, that feels like a genuine mistake and not AI (not important, only pointing this out in case someone thinks I'm ignoring this for whatever reason).
The next notable post was his analysis which defended me, but put focus on Micc and HEM for his "not so townie" (the closest he had to scum) reads. Despite putting Micc there, he proceeded to defend him to some extent, but then proceeded to vote for him as part of a trap. My guess would be that he didn't actually believe most of the scum related things he said about Micc and was more trying to distance himself to help his gambit work out better.

Almost like it's what my post was alluding to.

After orctin voted for Micc, he sprung his trap and accused orctin of being scum trying to hammer someone. A few problems with that being Micc pointing out that it wasn't actually a hammer before Dum posted, that the gambit relied on the victim to not pay attention to the actual votes, and that the victim in this case was orctin, who could've hammered Micc earlier but chose not to. Even assuming orctin did fall for the trap, these things allowed him to keep his cool and pretty easily shoot down Dum's accusations.
After I voted for Dum based on my conversation with Jackson, he didn't take it well and, similar to Salsa, wrote a rather passive aggressive response, though he calmed down fairly quickly after I explained myself.
He really hasn't posted anything here since which I do find somewhat odd given that I'm pretty sure I've seen his name pop up as posting in other games.

Overall impression: Mixed. I initially believed him to be town, then found his actions suspicious, then began believing he was scum, but having gone back and reread his posts along with other people's impressions of him, I've found that I can't really get a good grasp on what's scum/poor town behavior, what's newbie jitters, and what I'm just looking too hard at. Overall I'd say there's the slightest scum lean, but nothing extreme enough to tip the scales.

NinjaStore

Spoiler:

Claimed he found Micc suspicious but wouldn't vote him because not enough discussion had happened and greatly disliked the implication that we should just vote completely at random and hope we get it.
After coming back from his camping trip, he said he found Dum's gambit to be scummy and wondered why Micc waited to bring up the vote count until after someone voted.
Shortly after, he posted a short analysis pointing the FoS at Dum, Micc, and me, before voting for me on top of it. His analysis isn't entirely unwarranted, I'll admit I've said some things that could very easily be construed as scumplay. Obviously any attempt to defend myself with excuses such as inexperience or emotional issues will probably just seem like me grasping at straws, but one defense that I feel is valid is that fact that certain posts are linked to but summarized in a way that discourages following the link without providing proper context (the most egregious in my eyes is probably the one that linked to post 137 which makes it seem like I voted Dum for no reason despite "complimenting" his trap and then brought up not being afraid to be lynched completely unprompted, both of which are blatantly untrue if you paid attention to the full post in-context.
He has yet to respond to my response so analysis has to end there.

Overall impression: Town-leaning. Overall, despite voting for me, I don't actually think NS is scum trying to turn things on me. Based on what he's said and done, I get the feeling that he's town who picked up on a false lead and then let confirmation bias do the rest. There are a few slight scum behaviors (taking things out of context, use of buzzwords like "defensive", etc.) but these feel less like intentional scumplay and more like unintentionally aggressive townplay.

While I'm here, I feel like it's important to discuss my initial response to the accusations. I'll admit, I acted rashly on account of me not expecting NS to find me the most suspicious. Having been dealing with some irl stuff, I let my head get the best of me and likely made myself look more suspicious in the process. Obviously there's nothing I can really do to change that. What I can do though is put my money where my mouth is. I have a proposition that I'd like to make. I understand if you don't want to risk potentially falling into a mafia trap, so I'll stay silent on it if you'd prefer not to hear it, but if you're willing to hear me out, I'd gladly share, even if the consensus turns out to be a "no".

JacksonVirgo

Spoiler:

Was the first to counter the idea of No-Elimination, which it seems that most of the players agreed with.
Spent most of the beginning lurking (makes sense given the sig), then slowly began responding to more and more as time went on.
Was the first to point out Salsa and Dum's potentially scummy traits and started the Salsa bandwagon which didn't pick up steam until James replaced her.

Just going to point out "and Dum's"

I noticed that things started feeling more hostile after they started posting and in my analysis unintentionally started a bit of a confrontation, though in the end we were able to come to a mutual understanding, especially once I started understanding more about their style of play and why they do it.
Not much else of note happened until they began feuding with James which seems to have died rather than settled. There's definitely some hostile vibes in here, but that's starting to seem more like a part of their personality than an actual tell.
I backed up some of their points with what I understood of their playstyle, which they confirmed and further backed me up when HEM viewed my move as scumplay. I can't deny the possibility that this was done to "buddy" up with someone that seemed to share their views, but it doesn't seem very in-character for what I know of their playstyle.

Overall impression: Most likely town. I'll admit, in the beginning I found them very suspicious and didn't like some of their views (there are a few points that still make me raise an eyebrow at too), but overall there's actually been very little beyond gut-feelings and correlation that I've found scummy. I'll admit, there is a chance that they're just really good at manipulating newer players, but as of this point I have no reason to assume that's more likely than them just being town.

Micc

Spoiler:

Boy oh boy, arguably the most controversial player here. Let's get into it.
Right off the bat, he's by far been the most outwardly aggressive player.
He does have a tendency to go into teacher mode which can be helpful at certain times, while others it comes off as condescending.
He's also very much not the type to easily accept any way but his own. I'm not sure if this is just how he is with newbies or if he's this way all the time, but it definitely makes it difficult to side with him if you don't already agree, which I think might be what started his early wagon.
He was the first to question orctin's reads, specifically the one on Salsa and gave a pretty decent defense of his position there.
When Dum tried to pull his gambit, Micc didn't say anything about the vote count until after orctin had voted, but before the trap was fully sprung. It's possible that it's poorly coordinated scumplay, but feels a bit more likely that he was curious about what Dum was doing but couldn't help but call orctin out for a potential (albeit false) hammering.
Since then he's gone quiet despite saying that he was going to catch up.

Overall impression: The wild goose chase. Overall Micc hasn't been the easiest player to deal with. For the reasons I've already outlined, he's somewhat frustrating and near impossible to coordinate with. However, despite my initial reaction to these traits, something tells me that, while definitely acting in a way I view is detrimental to town victory, it doesn't seem like scumplay, just the result of someone whose personality doesn't mesh well with the group. At the risk of putting suspicion onto myself (given that I started the initial wagon), I get the feeling that the scum have noticed this too and have taken advantage of it to get the group to pursue him instead. Honestly the most scummy thing about him has been his lack of presence as of late which I don't know whether that's him lurking or just genuinely distracted by flesh-world problems.

humaneatingmonkey

Spoiler:

Last but certainly not least, we have HEM, the closest thing to a wild card all game. Obviously since dsjstr never posted there's nothing to read there, so I'll only focus on HEM.
One thing that's noticeable about his playstyle is just how little he puts into each post. It could simply be wanting to focus on getting his point across as efficiently as possible, but sometimes it feels like active lurking.
His first vote was for Micc, but if his later post is true, he didn't actually agree that Micc was scum, he was simply joining the most active wagon.
He brought up the idea that having day 1 go as long as possible was the most beneficial thing for town to do, which definitely seems like something legitimately helpful to the newbie townies. Afterwards, he linked to a very long guide to tells which, again, definitely feels more town oriented than scum.
One thing I find fascinating but dangerous is that HEM has a tendency to request more information out of others (such as in post 91 and 92), yet doesn't seem to like when people do the same to him (such as his response to 172 and his complete ignoring of what James said about him in 178).
It also seems like sometimes he votes on a dime, whereas others he needs significant reason to change votes. I wouldn't say this is a bad thing necessarily (for one thing it definitely seems like it would make it harder for scum to manipulate his vote), but definitely adds to his "wild card" vibe and makes me want to know more about the way he thinks.
It's also interesting that, despite saying multiple times that he found me scummy, he's never chosen to vote me and even given me advice on how to behave as town, which could mean any number of things.

Overall impression: The hardest to read of all. As I said, HEM definitely feels very wild-cardish, which makes him hard to read and even harder to predict. His desire for information yet closed-off nature on top of many of his micro-posts feeling less like contributions and more like keeping up the appearance that he's doing so and his tendency to try to get a reaction out of people could be either signs of scumplay or signs of an aggressive yet calculating townie. The things that have leaned me most to him being townie are his advice which is generally town-victory aligned and that his unpredictability hasn't been used in anyway that seems anti-town, but I acknowledge the possibility that these are simply smart plays.

Apologies for the length, there was just a lot of information to parse through. Hopefully, even if you don't necessarily agree with everything I say, this can help everyone look at things from new angles and maybe understand my thought process a bit.

I have a proposition that I'd like to make. I understand if you don't want to risk potentially falling into a mafia trap, so I'll stay silent on it if you'd prefer not to hear it, but if you're willing to hear me out, I'd gladly share, even if the consensus turns out to be a "no".

Go for it.

[JamesTheNames]

Town Reads:

1-navigatorv. As of right now, everything they have done looks extremely townie to me, especially with the reads they have been posting (Wich i mostly agree with).

I doubt newbscum openly buddies like that without much explanation.

I disagree.

[JamesTheNames]

Please post more. Why didn't you put Dum on E-2 in 165? Why didn't you vote for Micc after your 44?

I thought it was a dumb question so I didn't bother answering. I probably should have pointed that out at the time. The answer to James' second question should have been obvious. I had already made it pretty clear that I wasn't willing to put anyone at E-2 so early in day 1.

I didn't cast a vote in 165 because I was waiting to see what Micc would have to say and hadn't decided who was scummier between Micc and Dum yet. Casting a vote for one of them at that time anyway would have probably been a good idea in retrospect. I should be more proactive with my voting rather than hanging back. I eventually did put a vote on Micc since he didn't answer.

Bothering to put in all this analysis work in the first place does earn you some town points. It doesn't exonerate you, but I'm switching votes to a higher priority scum read for now.

UNVOTE: navigatorv
VOTE: Micc

First thing, this one is just entirely out of curiosity. What don't you like about early E-2s?
Second thing, can you point out between 241 and 271 what post or argument made you switch from Nav to Micc?

[JamesTheNames]

Why?

He claimed to agree with the majority of Nav's reads. Upon inspection, barely half agreed with. This is an attempted case at buddying.

[JamesTheNames]

What I can do though is put my money where my mouth is. I have a proposition that I'd like to make. I understand if you don't want to risk potentially falling into a mafia trap, so I'll stay silent on it if you'd prefer not to hear it, but if you're willing to hear me out, I'd gladly share, even if the consensus turns out to be a "no".

I'm curious. Shoot.

So we have about 3 days until the deadline for voting. While it seems like things have been narrowed down, we still don't have a consensus on who to vote for. My proposition is this: if we can't narrow it down so that the majority of town agrees on one person by 12 hours before the deadline, everyone eliminates me. Even though you wouldn't be eliminating scum, you'd still have a higher chance of finding scum on later days which is still a net gain.
Now obviously if I'm scum I could use this opportunity to try and convince everyone to vote for one of the three prime suspects, so if town agrees to this, I'll stop posting unless someone specifically requests a response from me.

I'm not doing this.
Why are you so willing to get yourself killed?

[JamesTheNames]

I'd prefer a no elim over killing off a neutral. A certain person is giving me Neighbour/Cop vibes

[JamesTheNames]

22
Random Vote
27
Random enquiry as to whether someone has played on a different site
36
Votes Micc for what she believed to be stretching in the first 2 pages of the game.
37
Grammar Correction
53
Giving town cred to Navigatorv for a post she liked
82
Sarcastic comment, explains idleness, asking why agreeing beckons suspicion.

83
JacksonVirgo says why they sus Salsabil.

I am not sussing you because you responded/town-read someone that has the same thoughts, I am just saying that's ALL you're responding to.

306
Dum does the same thing. It'll be interesting to see how JacksonVirgo explains how that is any different to what Salsabil did, considering Dum had a 151 post gap, with more than 4 days worth of content, compared to Salsabil with a 16 post gap, and less than 12 hours. We already know they won't answer this and will avoid it because they've been doing it all game and Dum is their scum buddy. We move on.

83

That sarcasm doesn't help your case, in fact it makes me more confident.

In terms of sarcasm or tone, 251, 89 and 248.

For fuck sake you can't be this dense. I am voting because of the intentions/tone behind their content not the content itself. Now stop fucking misrepresenting me I swear to fucking god

Oof look at that edginess.

Salsabil's first post, not scummy it is just RVS. Salsabil's second post, not scummy, just a random enquiry. Salsabil's third post, voting for RVSing too hard, not scummy. Salsabil's fourth post, EBWOP. Salsabil's fifth post, agreeing with someone, also not scummy. Salsabil's sixth post, sarcasm and saying agreeing isn't scummy, this is also not scummy unless if you're JacksonVirgo, then it is very scummy.
Let's say the issue was agreeing with someone, 42. 271. 306
These are all with the idea of "town points".
You also have all of the instances of HumanEatingMonkey saying they agree with things or disagree with things. Dum also blindly said they agreed with Navigatorv.
So clearly saying you agree isn't an issue, unless JacksonVirgo is a hypocrite but I don't think they are.
The issue is that it is all they responded to then.
Between her 3rd/4th and 5th posts, 16 posts had been made.
She responded to 1 of them, a bunch of them were fluff such as 49.
I wonder how many JacksonVirgo responded to, considering they're being picky on how much Salsabil responded to.
It is 2 if you were wondering.
Their response to 51 is trivial.
Their response to 38 is same as what Salsabil did in 53, but disagreeing.

It is almost like what I said here:

All of the pressure from a vote with no sustanence or logic forces me to respond to it.

is correct.

So NavigatorV considering:

Again, just because you will vote because you find someone suspicious doesn't mean others will do the same; it's pretty clear that Jackson only votes on who they think is scum, not just anyone they find suspicious.

How about you try and justify how a single instance of sarcasm, agreeing with somebody, and not replying much whilst being busy, would justify JacksonVirgo seeing Salsabil as a scum read instead of just a gut feel.
Additionally, what would you do NavigatorV?
You have suspicions of 2 people, one of them is afk one of them isn't. You can get pressure from one of them, get content from one of them, further develop your reads on one of them, if you end up thinking this person is town, you can go back to the original person. Would you waste time voting on the busy not responding person, or the one you get content from?
Furthermore, if you were suspicious of 2 people, and you decided to stay on the one you got no content from, wasting time and pressure in a very effective manner, would you then try and convince other people to do the voting for you?
Let's say you did this ^. Why would you do this? Distancing? To stay off the wagon? To pretend like you're having an impact and to hide so you don't get spotlight on you?
Of course this is entirely hypothetical and nobody has done this this game.

I don't understand why I actually have to explain how a read off of tone, sarcasm, lack of responding due to life, and the act of agreeing with a single statement is a valid Scum read.
I look forward to your explanation NavigatorV.
If you can somehow explain how any of that makes sense, and isn't hypocritical, I'll admit I'm wrong, and I'll stop chasing after JacksonVirgo.
Until then.

My. Vote. Is. Not. Moving.

[JamesTheNames]

I've caught up on reading the recent activity but still need to parse it a bit. As for questions directed at me:

What does SA stand for? I also played on a SA, wondering if it's the same one

First thing, this one is just entirely out of curiosity. What don't you like about early E-2s?

A few years ago I played a few games on Something Awful. They were usually larger games with 24-48 hour days. I'm trying to adjust to much longer days, and figured we're best off playing out most of the time limit we have so enough discussion can happen to get reads on people. Putting someone at E-2 when barely any of that time has elapsed yet and we're still in a semi-joke phase seemed dangerous to me - it could have ended the day very early and denied us information. Seems like something scum would want to happen.

Second thing, can you point out between 241 and 271 what post or argument made you switch from Nav to Micc?

It was simply because Nav made an effortpost analyzing people in a lot of detail. We're supposed to be scumhunting, after all. Micc and Dum were already on my radar, and it was a tossup which one to put a vote on. I went with Micc since I still don't like his early E-2 vote.

VOTE: orctin He's being suspiciously helpful...

Eh? He's posted two jokes?

That was my initial joke vote with appropriately flimsy justification. I

was

hoping that having some people at two votes would get some discussion going. I wasn't expecting anyone to drop a third vote on Orctin so quickly, so it got my attention when Micc did that.

Town vibes.

[JamesTheNames]

So like as I start my read of page 6, It should be known that in a regular game I would vote orc and keep my vote there. keep my vote there. That looked like you were trying to hammer. But newbie gets botd. Anyways.

P6:
I disagree with JV and Monkey about Dum looking fake.

Navy advocating for policy lims is yucky, as monkey points out.

Based on this page I'd rather vote Navy than Dum

P7:
Hooooo boy Rizz isn't gonna like me

Navy so polite

James is here, I like their initial reads

Navy thinking every post needs/ will have substance will lead to much frustration for them

P8:
We fighting

James has effort, which is nice. Prolly unwilling to vote James today unless something wild happens

Stopping again, sorry, family drama

Sorry but botd?
Also don't apologise for that.

[JamesTheNames]

I apologise now, for the lack of chronological order or general organisation in this post.

Now then, let's go into your hypothetical situation. Right off the bat there's a problem because it assumes that the suspicions on both people are equal. Jackson made it very clear that they found Salsa scummy while Dum was merely potentially suspicious. Going off of what I did do in a similar situation (100), I likely wouldn't have voted for any of them and waited to see (I should note that there is a difference in that Jackson only had to pick between two while I had three and my suspicion was much more even between them than Jackson's implied about theirs). In that case, am I just waiting for others to do the vote so I don't have to or distancing myself? Or am I just playing cautiously?
Maybe they were waiting to see if Salsa would post and wanted to see if their vote still left any pressure on her. Maybe Dum never crossed into full on scum territory for them for whatever reason. Maybe they just plain didn't even think to change their vote since they were focused on reading people. Any of these could be just as possible as them and Dum being scum buddies.

It doesn't assume people are equal. It applies even if suspicion levels aren't equal. If you have actual interest in town winning, you don't waste your time on something gaining no grounds, or which won't gain ground. You apply pressure onto the second most suspicious, then as I've said, from that your opinions can change, they can become stronger, they can become weaker. The pressure you apply can help others form their ideas and their reads. There is also once again, nothing stopping you from going back to your original vote. A town player's interest would be to therefore actually get stuff out of someone. JacksonVirgo opted not to do this.
Also potentially suspicious? Pushing through a game saying you're going to vote Dum or Salsabil (or me), and saying you see them as most scummy, is

potentially

suspicious?

unreasonable hostility over a single vote, it's not hard to see why Jackson saw them as potential scum.

For fuck sake you can't be this dense. I am voting because of the intentions/tone behind their content not the content itself. Now stop fucking misrepresenting me I swear to fucking god

Only just realised this but this post makes their case against Salsabil even weaker, they are basically saying 74 and 83 aren't actually their reasons. Once again showing, not a valid vote on their part at all.

Can you explain why you suddenly switched to focusing on Fizz Raab out of nowhere then immediately switched back to Jackson? I assume you're trying to point out a place where Jackson could've tone-read someone as scum, but I can't really tell because you offered no explanation before or after.

Unlike JacksonVirgo trying to hide under the radar by just focusing on myself, I'm trying to get content from other people, admittedly I've not done a great job at it.

Firstly I already said it was mainly gut so I won't be pushing them, so you're misrepresenting my case here. There's also a large difference between why I think that read was NAI and why I think Dum's actions were scummy, which you seemed to ignore.

Random contradictory thing I found while going through all of JacksonVirgo posts.

but I'm going to stop self-meta right now since I don't like doing so.

Have commented on how they normally play many a time already.
I was checking if JacksonVirgo had any other explanation as to why they have/had any actual case against Salsabil, 83 contradicts 202. They don't apart from just reiterations.

I started the fucking wagon dude, if I wanted to spark more fighting I wouldn't have done that as if I were scum, I would have no idea that it would take weight so fast.

I checked, you just said you'd be fine with a Dum wagon, you didn't actually push for it before the wagon started. Unless if you classed NavigatorV questioning you on it as starting a wagon. It definitely does not. The Dum wagon only picked up after his "gambit". I read everything up to this point an extra time just for you.

What the fuck are you even saying about attention, it is clear Salsa didn't want to be in the middle of it all

No? Posting a few times doesn't mean she doesn't want to be in the middle of it. Sarcastically going "Cause I'm scum (you caught me! )" doesn't seem like she doesn't want to be in the middle of it.

You don't have anythign else to post about other than those which is "backing up" your own vote in a sense?

really isn't sarcastic like you seem to think.

To be fair, I was trying more to highlight the tone of "You don't have anything else to post? That's useless." I should have made this clearer

However, assuming you are, in fact, town, I'd definitely encourage you to try more flexible thinking. Never allowing yourself any doubt in your own theories is more than likely to lead you down the wrong trail eventually.

As if there is a world where this applies more to be than it does to JacksonVirgo.

By the way, anybody can be free to answer this. Why has JacksonVirgo been particularly vulgar towards my slot? I don't think its particularly in the spirit of the game, plus I can't help but to see it as flaky since I'm the only one trying to get them Elimed? There's no need for it, and I wouldn't complain if it stopped. Thank you.

[JamesTheNames]

Have commented on how they normally play many a time already.

I do this all the time. I am actually sick of you at this point

Ignore the context and try to insult me more go for it. You ignored the context, you say you hate self meta yet you do it yourself. Stop trying to be edgy and rude.

[JamesTheNames]

Real fuckin' sick of them. I am sick of having to deal with people like them every. single. fucking. game

Stop flaking. Swearing doesn't help your case.

[JamesTheNames]

I've had a small distance session from MS and this is off-topic so I'll keep this brief, and I've come to realize I'm ashamed of myself of how I've been acting on this site as of late. I'm gonna take a small break after this game, thanks for sticking with me until now fam.

Jackson, I know we haven't got a long much this game, but I just want to say you are still fun to play with even if some moments aren't the nicest.

[JamesTheNames]

I've had a small distance session from MS and this is off-topic so I'll keep this brief, and I've come to realize I'm ashamed of myself of how I've been acting on this site as of late. I'm gonna take a small break after this game, thanks for sticking with me until now fam.

Jackson, I know we haven't got a long much this game, but I just want to say you are still fun to play with even if some moments aren't the nicest.

Yeah apologies.

Also quick question, are you the James I know? I assume not as you've been acting as you don't know me

If you live in the United Kingdom there is a chance, I don't know any Aussies. Although I must say, Ten from NCT isn't Jackson.

[JamesTheNames]

If end up being the elim, monkey is almost definitely Town here as is Navi.

I second this, but I'm not as certain on HumanEatingMonkey

[JamesTheNames]

Admittedly I should stop being really stubborn I'm not helping the game and I don't want to ruin it for Jackson any more than I have.
Jackson and Dum are my priorities, I can't not see them as a duo, at least not right now, I'm also okay with going for a Fizz Raab Elim, but I'm not confident in this.

[JamesTheNames]

Also may I ask a question. If Dum/Myself get eliminated and flip Town, would that affect your read on the other considering you're reading us both as a pair.

It would yes. There'd still be suspicions on whichever stays, but my whole issue is I really can't see any other explanation for why you didn't vote Dum. For pressure reasons and such from earlier.

[JamesTheNames]

Intent to hammer*

Intent to hammer*

We still have 30 ish hours, no need to rush this we can still get responses. You did beat me to it though.

Also as cool as Daniel is and as much of a bop as 2U is, he isn't Jackson

[JamesTheNames]

Btw, if Fizz flips red, his partner definitely bussed.

You think so?
If Jackson Hammers
Those who voted for Fizz Raab:
JacksonVirgo, humaneatingmonkey, navigatorv, JohnnyFarrar, orctin
Those who did not:
JamesTheNames, Dum, NinjaStore

If Fizz flips red I'm voting NinjaStore
397, 401, 404 and 405. Based off of these, and the fact at the time these were made Fizz Raab was at E-2. Surely NinjaStore would have voted here? NinjaStore made a claim in 397, which, I personally would consider as something to give scum vibes. 401 and 405 look like NinjaStore is trying to allow Fizz Raab to excuse themselves, then NinjaStore would try to defend them. This is only if Fizz Raab would flip red.

[JamesTheNames]

Also may I ask a question. If Dum/Myself get eliminated and flip Town, would that affect your read on the other considering you're reading us both as a pair.

It would yes. There'd still be suspicions on whichever stays, but my whole issue is I really can't see any other explanation for why you didn't vote Dum. For pressure reasons and such from earlier.

Alright now that I have a clearer head and we're more civil I will try and explain this. From the very start of my read on Dum, the read was heavily in gut and I've learned to announce my gut reads but not tunnel them like I used to. Salsa/yourself was acting scummy in a sense that I could narrow down with actual logical thinking, salsa did not post/quote/respond to anything that was not directly backing up their own agenda, from memory their tone was also filled with self-preservation so that combined with not posting about anything that went against them made me think it's newb!scum pushing an agenda and trying not to stand out in the spotlight as best as possible. You then appeared with a similar agenda, focused mainly on scum-reading me which pinged me to the fact that 1. I was scum-reading you and it feels like OMGUS and 2. Your predecessor rejected everything that went against them. Both of which I feel are attempting to push the exact same agenda, self-preservation.

Now all I have on Dum is speculation based on their tone, which is stronger now that the game has progressed but not as strong as the read on your slot. Their tone seems overly apologetic and like they're trying to minimise backlash from their posts. That logic is much weaker than the one I had on you and thus I was never going to vote them over yourself, you then appeared essentially throwing an attack on me stating that I should have voted Dum if I were Town but that's entirely not the case at all, but either you're scum needing to throw a case at me or you're Town that's blind/biased to the fact that my logic on you was stronger to me, which other's also called out which I can only assume you didn't fully absorb because of your read.

--

I am also here to explain that associations read are kinda wack. Try, even for a second, removing that association read in your head (aka try to not think Dum and I are partners for a second) and think what your reads would be in that case, because you following this path by assuming we're both partners (which in a vacuum, chances are incredibly slim regardless) is making yourself tunnel-visioned. This is assuming that you're Town that's tunneling here and not scum.

It would have been nice to hear this earlier. I did explain that you can still temporarily throw sus on a slot then come back to it, so I'm still a bit ehh, but it would have been nice. I probably should have been listening to my own advice and stopped tunneling at least temporarily.

I forgot to click post and went to sleep I apologise.

[JamesTheNames]

Went to go to sleep*

[JamesTheNames]

It would have been nice to hear this earlier. I did explain that you can still temporarily throw sus on a slot then come back to it, so I'm still a bit ehh, but it would have been nice. I probably should have been listening to my own advice and stopped tunneling at least temporarily.

I forgot to click post and went to sleep I apologise.

Apologies again for getting heated earlier and not summarising it like this earlier. What do you mean by temporarily throw suspicion?

Also may I ask you to reword or simplify your read on Dum and myself so I can see if I can it all straight. Also it'll be easier to understand/absorb it when we're not throwing each other's pinky toes in the corner of a coffee table.

I mean it in the lines of, somebody finds 2 people suspicious, 1 can be more suspicious than the other one, but if the game is pathing towards the least suspicious, or rather the one you aren't focusing, you'd start pressuring the other person, as its more efficient at the time. So if I were you, I would have switched to Dum, at least temporarily. When Dum and Salsabil were both in the game, Dum was much much more active, I would have pressured him, strengthened my read of him, then depending on how that goes, I could have gone back to Salsabil.

My issue with Dum was he voted Micc, for being helpful. I don't buy the whole gambit nonsense.

[JamesTheNames]

Btw, if Fizz flips red, his partner definitely bussed.

You think so?
If Jackson Hammers
Those who voted for Fizz Raab:
JacksonVirgo, humaneatingmonkey, navigatorv, JohnnyFarrar, orctin
Those who did not:
JamesTheNames, Dum, NinjaStore

If Fizz flips red I'm voting NinjaStore
397, 401, 404 and 405. Based off of these, and the fact at the time these were made Fizz Raab was at E-2. Surely NinjaStore would have voted here? NinjaStore made a claim in 397, which, I personally would consider as something to give scum vibes. 401 and 405 look like NinjaStore is trying to allow Fizz Raab to excuse themselves, then NinjaStore would try to defend them. This is only if Fizz Raab would flip red.

Btw, if Fizz flips red, his partner definitely bussed.

You think so?
If Jackson Hammers
Those who voted for Fizz Raab:
JacksonVirgo, humaneatingmonkey, navigatorv, JohnnyFarrar, orctin
Those who did not:
JamesTheNames, Dum, NinjaStore

If Fizz flips red I'm voting NinjaStore
397, 401, 404 and 405. Based off of these, and the fact at the time these were made Fizz Raab was at E-2. Surely NinjaStore would have voted here? NinjaStore made a claim in 397, which, I personally would consider as something to give scum vibes. 401 and 405 look like NinjaStore is trying to allow Fizz Raab to excuse themselves, then NinjaStore would try to defend them. This is only if Fizz Raab would flip red.

401 is why I hadn't voted him yet.

I take back what I said, I decided to read through orctin's posts. I find it strange or, too coincidental, the timings for him to join wagons.

[JamesTheNames]

What's the point of a question mark, when the words Who, What, When, Where, Why and How all suggest it's a question anyway. That and a question generally has a different verbal tone than other sentences and thus having the punctuation to signal that it is a question at the end is very bad design.

This is literally a 3am thought from Jacko (well 3:30am)

"I don't know how/what/who/when/why/where."
"I have no doubt as to how/what/who/when/why/where."
"What implies a question"

Statements vs Questions as above.
In actual speak a change in tone depicts a question, you can't do this online, so instead you use a ?, the 3rd example is important as you don't know if it is a question, or a statement, without the punctuation at the end or the tone.

[JamesTheNames]

@James was your read on Dum only based on me being scum with them?

No, the premise just strengthened it.

[JamesTheNames]

Making this pos just to say im still alive (and keeping up with the thread) just not posting a whole lot because of IRL stuff. Will try to post more on the weekend

Even anything brief would be phenomenal

[JamesTheNames]

Here's hoping Fizz responds. Even if I think this is the best decision, I still don't like the idea of her getting eliminated without offering up something in her defense

You have time to convince us otherwise.

[JamesTheNames]

Here's hoping Fizz responds. Even if I think this is the best decision, I still don't like the idea of her getting eliminated without offering up something in her defense

You have time to convince us otherwise.

You missed their meaning.

I understood their meaning.

[JamesTheNames]

Here's hoping Fizz responds. Even if I think this is the best decision, I still don't like the idea of her getting eliminated without offering up something in her defense

You have time to convince us otherwise.

You missed their meaning.

I understood their meaning.

You sure? Cause I still think she's scum and am keeping my vote, I just want to see at least an attempt at defense is all

Apparently I can't read. This is what happens when you spend all night trying to code lagrange multipliers and eigenvectors...

[JamesTheNames]

Those are fake words

Welcome to maths.

[JamesTheNames]

Those are fake words

Welcome to maths.

Math is a social construct

I know too many Maths with Philosophy minors to be willing to discuss this again I apologise.

[JamesTheNames]

Votecount 1-10

With 9 players alive, it will take 5 votes to eliminate.

JohnnyFarrar (1): NinjaStore
JacksonVirgo (1): JamesTheNames
Fizz Raab (4): navigatorv, JohnnyFarrar, Orctin, humaneatingmonkey
JamesTheNames (1): JacksonVirgo
Orctin (1): Dum
humaneatingmonkey (1): Fizz Raab


Not Voting (0):

The deadline for day one is set at (expired on 2021-05-29 20:18:34)

The time for this for me, is roughly 1am tomorrow. In case nothing occurs over the next 6 hours,

intent to hammer at midnight

.

[JamesTheNames]

What do you think the reasons they're not here at the moment

Asleep

[JamesTheNames]

On the one hand, I'm glad we didn't lose any power roles, but on the other I feel bad that both my first and last suspects were town lol

Do you mean chronologically, or in sus rankings.

[JamesTheNames]

@Any more experienced players here, is it worth trying to sort out who would have killed Johnny? I had a scan and couldn't find anything which would make me go, "they killed Johnny".

[JamesTheNames]

NK analysis is more WIFOM than you really need to read the game but it's information nevertheless. Assume scum priority is hunting PR.

So somebody trying to out a Power Role would actually be worth focusing on? Not just somebody who say, didn't like Johnny>

[JamesTheNames]

I'm not sure how much we can read from the night kill, but I think James may be on to something with JV-Dum being a pair,

and James was spared.

I personally think this is because I'm honestly not much of a threat, considering how badly my push on Jackson went.

[JamesTheNames]

JV has already been discussed a lot, but here are some early posts that stand out.

227 228

JV's tone is interesting. They emphasize that they are making reads rather than talking about the people they are reading.

Then there's this post:

one last thing JV, your sig says you're a tactical lurker. what does it mean?

Sometimes I don't post and just read the thread for a small while in a tactical way. For example, if I feel like I am tunneling someone too hard I step back and just watch for a while to see what happens without my intervention etc. More reasons too but that's the way I feel is the best explanation.

I also do it as scum

so it's not anything to read me on

JV drops this subtle "I'm town" instead of just saying "I play this way as both town and scum."

You only noticed this now? Even if I'm suspicious about Jackson I don't quite get this.

[JamesTheNames]

On the one hand, I'm glad we didn't lose any power roles, but on the other I feel bad that both my first and last suspects were town lol

This games me vibes. I don't feel great about the vibes given. Why does this post give me not-Town vibes?

[JamesTheNames]

EBWOP
Gives*. Autocorrect.

[JamesTheNames]

Also I have small suspicion on HEM from the NK, and then instantly posting to back their own ass up since the top town didn't die.

Are you referring to him saying we should assume Mafia is hunting PRs? If that's the case, I can see the potential, but it definitely needs a bit more than that to get me on the wagon since that just seems to be a decent assumption to make since they're the biggest threat to scum and

they don't have to worry about sussing out who's town like we do them.

Not to say the possibility isn't there, but it definitely doesn't say anything definitive imo

JV has already been discussed a lot, but here are some early posts that stand out.

227 228

JV's tone is interesting. They emphasize that they are making reads rather than talking about the people they are reading.

Then there's this post:

one last thing JV, your sig says you're a tactical lurker. what does it mean?

Sometimes I don't post and just read the thread for a small while in a tactical way. For example, if I feel like I am tunneling someone too hard I step back and just watch for a while to see what happens without my intervention etc. More reasons too but that's the way I feel is the best explanation.

I also do it as scum

so it's not anything to read me on

JV drops this subtle "I'm town" instead of just saying "I play this way as both town and scum."

I'm curious how Ninja feels about what is highlighted in blue.

[JamesTheNames]

Also I have small suspicion on HEM from the NK, and then instantly posting to back their own ass up since the top town didn't die.

Are you referring to him saying we should assume Mafia is hunting PRs? If that's the case, I can see the potential, but it definitely needs a bit more than that to get me on the wagon since that just seems to be a decent assumption to make since they're the biggest threat to scum and

they don't have to worry about sussing out who's town like we do them.

Not to say the possibility isn't there, but it definitely doesn't say anything definitive imo

JV has already been discussed a lot, but here are some early posts that stand out.

227 228

JV's tone is interesting. They emphasize that they are making reads rather than talking about the people they are reading.

Then there's this post:

one last thing JV, your sig says you're a tactical lurker. what does it mean?

Sometimes I don't post and just read the thread for a small while in a tactical way. For example, if I feel like I am tunneling someone too hard I step back and just watch for a while to see what happens without my intervention etc. More reasons too but that's the way I feel is the best explanation.

I also do it as scum

so it's not anything to read me on

JV drops this subtle "I'm town" instead of just saying "I play this way as both town and scum."

I'm curious how Ninja feels about what is highlighted in blue.

What about it? Are you asking me to compare the two?

Why doesn't your post regarding JacksonVirgo not apply to navigatorv? I don't think you're actually suspicious of JacksonVirgo for those reasons. You'd have commented how it applies to navigatorv if you did.
VOTE: NinjaStore

[JamesTheNames]

In addition to the previous posts (I don't like quote walls), is it not worse what navigatorv did? His wasn't even subtle.

Important to add, I don't think saying your town sided is scum indicative? Do you want town to pretend to be scum?

[JamesTheNames]

That nav quote doesn't give me the same "trying to look like town" vibes as what JV said. The more concerning nav quote is the one I linked last page: 539

Why not?
In your eyes both of them should be seen as doing the same thing, "I'm town" vs "we're town", the latter of course including navigatorv.
They have the same implications behind them, similar reasons for the comments behind them also.
Also you have an issue

now

with 65 11 days after it was made? Excluding the 2 days for the night phase you had 9 days to comment on that.
I don't think either of your reads here are genuine NinjaStore.

[JamesTheNames]

I have a test in the morning (GMT) so I don't think I'll post until afterwards, just know I'm suspicious of a NinjaStore/Nav team and will look into it more when I am back.

[JamesTheNames]

I'll respond to James' accusations later, busy with work rn

Taking a break from studying because I also need to sleep. It was more an off the cuff accusation than a genuine accusation. more along the lines of, I want to check if it is a possible thing or not.

[JamesTheNames]

So we have basically started this day getting straight into it

Jackson versus Ninja seems to be the early theme - I had read jackson town during day 1 and hadn't really looked to alter that much - but the suspicion of a JV/Dum pairing does raise the eyebrows there. I do also notice which seems like HEM backing ninja's play early voting for JV before even giving much of a reason for it. That's always suspect to me as i tend to feel people should have some reason behind their votes instead of just a quick vote, But there was expanded back and forth afterwards, as if players seem to think they need the vote to get another's attention. HEM did that one day 1 when he joined the game as well.

Far as Nav versus James i think that's to been seen yet - expecting more to come of that.

That whole "hammer early debate" thing that started things off - I can see the reasoning behind it as far as a longer day benefits town but threatening players and noting that since we have made this post anyone that quick votes is most likely a townie who doesn't know better, seems such a suspect thing to say. It's basically giving scum a quick thing to claim if they did hammer, to just say, "oh my mistake i didn't know better". I dislike trying to quantify putting possible votes/eliminations in a box - every game is different, people are different, and trying to sort out every game into a set of "unwritten rules" to be carried out by the older more experienced players hampers the growth of new players. Prefer to let the games unfold as the do.

Can we expect more input from you orctin? 38 and 374 give contradicting statements as to how you play, it would be nice for a clarification which one is true.
I don't understand the sudden switch from nobody believing me regarding a JacksonVirgo/Dum pair in day 1, then all of a sudden, Ninja and Orctin both going with it.

For anyone wondering the test did not go well, but I just need 1.4% or higher to pass this year.

[JamesTheNames]

Newbie 2064 - One vs. One Hundred

Moderator: Cabd
Backup Moderator and Dialogue Snark-Author: Penguin_Alien

Are you a bad enough dude(t) to take on the mob and win? Let's find out...

The flavor is purely for our (players+mods) collective enjoyment and has no effect whatsoever on the NewD3 newbie game setup and rules. This game will borrow imagery and flavor, as is my whimsy, from old television game shows, but will avoid spoilers for the results of those shows unless completely unavoidable.

Orc - that almost hammer got me on tilt man

I still dont understand this "Almost hammer thing" - and it's not just you but a couple people - I didn't hammer micc back on post 64 when there was 4 votes on him - i made it clear then i was going to allow him a chance to post and explain his side - i waited allowing time for discussion, didn't see anything to change my mind and then added my vote to him - during that time other people had changed their votes and i'm getting called out for some trap play which is about the silliest thing i had heard of when it was clear he wasn't at E-1 at the time as i explained then.

Dum at this point moved himself into the suspect list for pushing some poorly played maneuver when i had made clear my position when i didn't hammer, and when i put the vote there. This to me was a scum play trying to push against myself to intimidate me into some kind of being afraid to vote thing or something, really i have no idea what he was doing cause anyone paying attention clearly knew what was up with the votes at the time. It was only cause he was going to be out for a few days that i didn't vote for him then.

You can see that i tend to put pressure on someone first - gauge their reaction, then look to vote. This whole setup here of people voting to gauge reaction is just backwards to my normal way of thinking and playing where i'm from.

Jackson - Hope you find some peace there, or bit of chill time, so far i had a town read on you and would only vote to elim you if it was a general concensious of the group. I know we had the other game that was just a huge hate fest battle thanks to the other guy and know two game of what can be seen as anger posting battles can be stressful to someone.

NinjaStore is town

Why?

[JamesTheNames]

Why do you do this mobile????
Why do you think NinjaStore is town?

[JamesTheNames]

Why would town apply one thing to one person and not another?

[JamesTheNames]

That nav quote doesn't give me the same "trying to look like town" vibes as what JV said. The more concerning nav quote is the one I linked last page: 539

This was his answer, which I believe. He doesn't have to be accurate. He doesn't have to be right. I just need to believe that he believes this, and I have no reason not to.

I think we're going to be disagreeing this day phase. I don't think he is genuine with regards to this.

[JamesTheNames]

If I'm right that you're town, and I think I'm right that you're town, you need to understand this:

Scumhunting isn't finding who the most fallible townie in the bunch is. Sometimes, scum is the least fallible of the bunch because they're already informed about the game and they know the right answers. You need to look for people who don't look like they believe what they're saying or who don't look like they're sincere in trying to find out who the scum is.

Right now, who would you eliminate and who wouldn't you eliminate?

I can say for sure I don't want you or navigatorv out of the game yet. I'd like to see what the replacement for JacksonVirgo's slot thinks about the game, orctin and Dum haven't been here. NinjaStore makes me hesitant. I am comfortable with my current vote.

[JamesTheNames]

Can we expect more input from you orctin? 38 and 374 give contradicting statements as to how you play, it would be nice for a clarification which one is true.
I don't understand the sudden switch from nobody believing me regarding a JacksonVirgo/Dum pair in day 1, then all of a sudden, Ninja and Orctin both going with it.

For anyone wondering the test did not go well, but I just need 1.4% or higher to pass this year.

I'm not seeing what you calling contradicting - in both cases and as i keep say i prefer to allow discussion before voting instead of just voting to push the issue. It to me is the logical course of action in a game.

As far as your question on the JV/Dum thing - I keep an open mind and trying not to form hard opinion - but see things from other angles to help see what i might miss, which is why i noted that seeing your reference to the Pairing caught my attention as something i might of missed and was worth noting. This format of play is still new to me as i'm more used to a "role madness" game where everyone gets some type of info/action - the whole speculate to speculate is out of my wheelhouse.

In post 38:
"I am not an aggressive player, i prefer to watch more"
In post 374:
"You can see that i tend to put pressure on someone first"

Orc I think its you and Ninja.

[JamesTheNames]

Can we expect more input from you orctin? 38 and 374 give contradicting statements as to how you play, it would be nice for a clarification which one is true.
I don't understand the sudden switch from nobody believing me regarding a JacksonVirgo/Dum pair in day 1, then all of a sudden, Ninja and Orctin both going with it.

For anyone wondering the test did not go well, but I just need 1.4% or higher to pass this year.

I'm not seeing what you calling contradicting - in both cases and as i keep say i prefer to allow discussion before voting instead of just voting to push the issue. It to me is the logical course of action in a game.

As far as your question on the JV/Dum thing - I keep an open mind and trying not to form hard opinion - but see things from other angles to help see what i might miss, which is why i noted that seeing your reference to the Pairing caught my attention as something i might of missed and was worth noting. This format of play is still new to me as i'm more used to a "role madness" game where everyone gets some type of info/action - the whole speculate to speculate is out of my wheelhouse.

In post 38:
"I am not an aggressive player, i prefer to watch more"
In post 374:
"You can see that i tend to put pressure on someone first"

Orc I think its you and Ninja.

Need to amend this, its either 2 of the 3 of Dum Ninja and Orc. Or 1 and another.

[JamesTheNames]

I'm down for an orctin wagon

Agreed

[JamesTheNames]

Wow, so one dimensional. It quite simple really

I feel like this contradicts how Orctin says he plays. I think he's flaking under pressure.

[JamesTheNames]

Seriously - Are you overlooking the fact that if i had wanted to i would of hammered Micc back on post 64 and been done with him. But i preferred to allow him the chance to defend himself - it was only after he had time to post and talk that i decided he didn't give me cause to not believe him so i voted for him. I made my intentions perfectly clear. Then had to listen to the silly Dum trap post scam as if someone couldn't keep up with the voting and see what's going on.

It was after the Dum scheme that the attack on JV started up. So if you want to look for a scum pair - i suggest you start there. The original intent of their play was to push on me then thru Dum but somehow JV became the target afterward and it ballooned from there is what i seen. Fizz had poor defense of himself, it was general town consensus to eliminate him, I agree with town. Yes it was a bad vote but that's not on myself there.

"

So if you want to look for a scum pair - i suggest you start there.

"

But that isn't where you are focusing?

[JamesTheNames]

Have to admit - i love how you like to twist words around to make them fit your agenda there.
And as i've noted - i had JV town read most the game - but i was open to looking at what others were saying to see if i was incorrect in my thoughts. Am i wrong there, no idea, but i do enjoy seeing the sudden push to flip it to me. Hopefully it helps others with there reads.

Correct me if I am wrong, is your entire issue with JacksonVirgo's slot the fact they got replaced?

[JamesTheNames]

full disclosure: I started skipping some of his posts that were colored in replies inside quote tags. That type of formatting is incredibly hard to read and I would advise finding a way to reply to people that's more readable, as most players are incredibly likely to tune out that sort of exchange. I might go back to those parts at some point if I feel they're pertinent but for now I'm comfortable enough slotting him as town based on his other posts.

Sorry about that, this is the first forum I've been on with coloured text options, I'll try to make things clearer in a different way for future posts.

[JamesTheNames]

Have to admit - i love how you like to twist words around to make them fit your agenda there.
And as i've noted - i had JV town read most the game - but i was open to looking at what others were saying to see if i was incorrect in my thoughts. Am i wrong there, no idea, but i do enjoy seeing the sudden push to flip it to me. Hopefully it helps others with there reads.

Correct me if I am wrong, is your entire issue with JacksonVirgo's slot the fact they got replaced?

What?? what part of i have had JV Town Read most the whole game doesn't make sense??? I wasn't the one who had issues with him, and been harping on him most the whole game.

I noted i was open to relooking at it because of others opinion and if i took his frustration as a scum play along with his opt out - did he opt out cause he had given up fighting against some of yall and felt he wasn't going to win in the long run as scum.

Jackson - at this point i'm looking at changing my opinion of him - I played game with him prior to this so had bit of bias to liking the player - but the frustration tactic day 1 to back off the attacks on themselves then the looking to opt out make me think we have a scum who basically have given up defending themselves now

Orctin, is there a game where you aren't scum here?

[JamesTheNames]

I'm waiting for the vote count, I don't want to be really stupid and hammer when I want him at E-1.

[JamesTheNames]

So me reading JV town most the whole game but as things unfold and stuff happens i start to question that read makes me scum??

Well if you eliminate me going to be an interesting next day for rest of yall trying to figure out how a scum push went thru so easy. Jv was suspect - he gets swapped and there's a sudden change of momentum to who's scummy. Quite a twist there i have to admit.

Not once did I say you changing your mind or questioning the read makes you scum. I think you're scum from a combination of this really weird flaking and the hypocritical things I've picked up on.
I simply asked if my understanding on why you are suspicious of JacksonVirgo was a correct interpretation. I'm sure you'd agree that was a fair question?
You aren't giving us reads you're giving us vague summaries. You then go on about just how bad it would be if you were eliminated, completely giving up on providing a defense for yourself for some reason, falling close to what you are suspicious of JacksonVirgo for doing, giving up on a defense. You randomly ended day 1, didn't even express intent, gave no justification for it either. You say JacksonVirgo is town read there. Once the game becomes convenient for you to focus JacksonVirgo, all of a sudden, you jump onto him.

Orctin you're a Scum member.

[JamesTheNames]

UNVOTE: NinjaStore
VOTE: Orctin

E-1

[JamesTheNames]

Well if you eliminate me going to be an interesting next day for rest of yall trying to figure out how a scum push went thru so easy.

Is this not a scum slip or am I misinterpreting "scum push"?

[JamesTheNames]

full disclosure: I started skipping some of his posts that were colored in replies inside quote tags. That type of formatting is incredibly hard to read and I would advise finding a way to reply to people that's more readable, as most players are incredibly likely to tune out that sort of exchange. I might go back to those parts at some point if I feel they're pertinent but for now I'm comfortable enough slotting him as town based on his other posts.

Sorry about that, this is the first forum I've been on with coloured text options, I'll try to make things clearer in a different way for future posts.

No problem, Fushi~

Part of the learning experience for newbie games is learning how to communicate effectively, and that includes formatting your posts in a legible way. While a dedication to comment on literally everything is admirable, prolonged back and forth quote stripes between two people will tend to quickly get tuned out by most people in games because they won't have the patience for it. I personaly feel it's okay to reply in a block rather than responding to every line individually, although you should do what works best for you.

I've tried a few things as you may have seen, and I did eventually give up on the huge quote walls.

[JamesTheNames]

UNVOTE: NinjaStore
VOTE: Orctin

E-1

UNVOTE: Orctin
I may be completely overthinking this, but if I were scum in the position Orctin is in I'd self vote so my scum partner couldn't make any mistakes regarding who they vote/ don't vote for, and why/ why not they voted for who they did.

[JamesTheNames]

If Orctin flips red, I think I'll be the most suspicious of Dum, because of the whole gambit shenanigans.

[JamesTheNames]

I don't see that ever being a play between teammates in a newbie game o(^・x・^)o

Is it not a thing? I appreciate the use of the cat.

[JamesTheNames]

Mod can we have about day extension?
We lose 3 days of communication with navigatorv and Humaneatingmonkey, Dum is being replaced, and NinjaStore isn't far from being prod-able. Thus it is essentially a 3 person out of 7 person game currently.

[JamesTheNames]

I guess I'll give a small little intro before I grab my laptop and catchup

I'm Super! notoriously known for hyper-posting and being emotional. I haven't played in like - 6 months (team mafia) and was desperate to join a game since my state has gone back into lockdown RIP.

I'm not sure how I'm going to go seeing as this game looks kinda slow and I tend to thrive in a faster paced environment- so please tell me to calm down if I post too much or start taking over the thread (lol)

nice to meet you all though

and hi gira!!!!

Please do spam post. We can try and be active but if you only have 2 active out of 7 it doesn't help. Admittedly 2 are on V/A

[JamesTheNames]

also I just wanna say it's bizarre that there was such a wagon on Micc early on and IMO there was a scum pushing in that direction - also sorry James but I have no idea if you don't want me to spam or if you do want me to spam I'm assuming that was a typo and you don't want me spamming but let me at least kinda spam as I'm doing my catchup cos it's hard for me to hold stuff in

I have already written down a lot of notes just for the 5 pages lmao cos I probably overanalyze shit but so far orc/nav are the ones I wanna focus on most - feel weird vibes from (especially nav) BUT that being said I haven't finished reading and a lot has probably happened since then

I was asking you to spam yes.

[JamesTheNames]

Admittedly I should stop being really stubborn I'm not helping the game and I don't want to ruin it for Jackson any more than I have.
Jackson and Dum are my priorities, I can't not see them as a duo, at least not right now, I'm also okay with going for a Fizz Raab Elim, but I'm not confident in this.

can you go into why Jackson is your scumread again for me? what are your thoughts on his reaction to you? do you think scum would react in that way?

also why was Dum a priority read of yours? I'm Dum Dum now so you can question my lil butt off all you like 0:)

can you explain why you see Jackson and Dummy as a duo?

I can do yes. (Probably more accurate to say was my scumread)
So during day 1, Jackson said many times that they ere suspicious of my slot and Dum, both of them weren't really genuine reasons, I debunked them and/or tried to. I was very suspicious of them, because they didn't vote Dum. They went on about how important it is to actually vote and apply pressure, but they were leaving it/wasting it on a quiet/afk slot. They didn't vote Dum to apply pressure, not even temporarily when Dum was becoming a focus of attention. This made and makes no sense to me still. Thus I saw them as a duo.

[JamesTheNames]

Admittedly I should stop being really stubborn I'm not helping the game and I don't want to ruin it for Jackson any more than I have.
Jackson and Dum are my priorities, I can't not see them as a duo, at least not right now, I'm also okay with going for a Fizz Raab Elim, but I'm not confident in this.

can you go into why Jackson is your scumread again for me? what are your thoughts on his reaction to you? do you think scum would react in that way?

also why was Dum a priority read of yours? I'm Dum Dum now so you can question my lil butt off all you like 0:)

can you explain why you see Jackson and Dummy as a duo?

I can do yes. (Probably more accurate to say was my scumread)
So during day 1, Jackson said many times that they ere suspicious of my slot and Dum, both of them weren't really genuine reasons, I debunked them and/or tried to. I was very suspicious of them, because they didn't vote Dum. They went on about how important it is to actually vote and apply pressure, but they were leaving it/wasting it on a quiet/afk slot. They didn't vote Dum to apply pressure, not even temporarily when Dum was becoming a focus of attention. This made and makes no sense to me still. Thus I saw them as a duo.

okay, that's fair. do you no longer scumread them? what's your read on catty?

I might reread over this exchange so I can understand it better, I did skim a bit of stuff ngl. so you're saying they didn't vote Dum and you found that odd? but then you said they were leaving/wasting their vote on an afk (I assume you mean Dum here? so were they voting Dum - sorry I should just go look lol)

did they just vote Dum and not question them and it felt weird? I can understand this if this is the case cos if I am going to vote someone I'm gonna pester their butts until I get a better read on them

They were hovering a vote on Salsabil, the slot I replaced into, when they were inactive and being replaced, instead of being proactive which they were telling others to do, and pressuring their other "scum" read.
It's more of a lean tha na read now

[JamesTheNames]

what about your thoughts on Jackson threatening to be elimmed and then being a bit angry/emotional? did it moooove you in any way like it did me? maybe I'm a bit too weak with emotional stuff, I can tell it didn't move Monkey in any way

It just made me try to be nicer, didn't really change any read.

[JamesTheNames]

Don't like quote walls to be too big.
692
Quick thing, ISO?

"it just feels like today they're trying to find a target they can get a wagon on instead of actually trying to find scum"
Do you have any idea why so many people suddenly switch to Jackson? From what I recall, could be wrong of course, I was the only person suspicious of JacksonVirgo day 1, thena ll of a sudden a town is eliminated and Jackson gets all the attention.

"the only thing that has pestered me here is Monkey's reaction and push on Orc after Catty came in - which has made me less inclined to want an Orc vote atm. "
Could you explain what about it pestered you?

"so basically there are 4 townies and 2 are scum in the pool."
Just leaving that one there for Ninja.

[JamesTheNames]

I haven't posted a proper reads list all game yet and it's time I do that.

James

: Town. One of the most active scumhunters. Not afraid to put his main scum reads out there even if they change pretty quickly (went fairly quickly from me/nav to me/dum/orc), but he does it in a way that feels genuine. I think he's just posting thoughts as they come to him, and then adapting to new info or further analysis of existing info. Afterwards he tends to follow up. Generally trying to push the group into productive discussion.

Just want to clarify, it wasn't me being suspicious of navigatorv, it was more of a, "I wonder if that could be a pair, I'm going to look into it.".

[JamesTheNames]

^ assuming its referring to 571.

[JamesTheNames]

If orctin is scum, this is a bus for catboi to quickly build the town's trust.

Lol

I don't like this. "That claim is so stupid" vibes.

[JamesTheNames]

catboi's actions look scummy for reasons completely unrelated to anything JacksonVirgo did. Any player entering the game when catboi did and making that push against orctin would be making what looks to me like a scum play.

What do you make of Super then?

[JamesTheNames]

This no longer feels like a newbie game.

[JamesTheNames]

This no longer feels like a newbie game.

y?

Aren't only 3 of us actually new players?

[JamesTheNames]

I was ISOing James and found something interesting but don't really want to bring it up for *reasons*, if I'm alive D3 I might enlighten you all with my magic finding

This is a bluff. If it were a magic finding regarding a simple town read, you'd explain it. If it were a magic finding regarding a power role, you wouldn't even bring it up. If it were a magic finding regarding a scum slip, you wouldn't wait a day. I don't see the point in this.

[JamesTheNames]

I was ISOing James and found something interesting but don't really want to bring it up for *reasons*, if I'm alive D3 I might enlighten you all with my magic finding

This is a bluff. If it were a magic finding regarding a simple town read, you'd explain it. If it were a magic finding regarding a power role, you wouldn't even bring it up. If it were a magic finding regarding a scum slip, you wouldn't wait a day. I don't see the point in this.

What you did doesn't resonate with me as something that aids town.

[JamesTheNames]

I was ISOing James and found something interesting but don't really want to bring it up for *reasons*, if I'm alive D3 I might enlighten you all with my magic finding

This is a bluff. If it were a magic finding regarding a simple town read, you'd explain it. If it were a magic finding regarding a power role, you wouldn't even bring it up. If it were a magic finding regarding a scum slip, you wouldn't wait a day. I don't see the point in this.

What you did doesn't resonate with me as something that aids town.

Not to mention, you doing this sets you up to be killed Night 2 then for somebody to chuck the blaim on me. Why would town do this?

[JamesTheNames]

James I can't hold secrets in

Then don't.

[JamesTheNames]

do you know what I'm referring to?

You can feel free to enlighten me, town benefits nigh nothing from people keeping secrets.

[JamesTheNames]

Regarding the above post:
"The fact of the matter here is that Jackson is dead while James is still alive. James if you're reading this, how have you felt about being wrong about Jackson there?"
I take it you mean inactive as Jackson's slot isn't dead? If you could clarify this I'll address it I'm not entirely sure which thing you're referring to as wrong.

"You were scumreading the two and then basically said 'well this just proves it!' Personally I don't feel it's proved."
Admittedly a lot of what I did was more a self-assurance or trying to make myself sure I was right, instead of trying to prove it. I thought I had a case against JacksonVirgo and Dum, I still think there's something there, and I don't quite see the lapse in logic, but I do realise it isn't as strong as I thought at the time. I was a bit too focused on a one on one type scenario with Jackson and should've spent more time trying to persuade others that they were scum. I should've been less stubborn but I've already admitted that that was my bad.

Do you not think it could be a mix of 1 and 2?

[JamesTheNames]

EBWOP I forgot to change the above post bit after NinjaStore posted before me. Its referring to [post[765[/post]

[JamesTheNames]

Oh Jackson isn't dead. That's Johnny lol

I've been literally skipping Jackson thinking he wasn't alive, woops. I guess that makes your point about Dum/Jackson(?) all the more relevant then? You believe they're both still scum together? Re: Mix of 1 and 2, I think it's possible but trying to overwhelm myself and everyone else trying to thread all these answers without a single redflip is dangerous territory. I believe in prioritizing reads and this is basically my way of doing so.

It isn't a read anymore, its still a lean, odds are I'm just being really stubborn, but I don't see a lapse in my logic. Currently Orctin is my strongest scum read, but its hard to have the JacksonVirgo/Dum idea in the back of my head when both of them have been replaced out also.

[JamesTheNames]

Jackson - at this point i'm looking at changing my opinion of him - I played game with him prior to this so had bit of bias to liking the player - but the frustration tactic day 1 to back off the attacks on themselves then the looking to opt out make me think we have a scum who basically have given up defending themselves now

Dum - I've been leary about Dum since game started - the whole Hammer trap he tried to play was just a bad play, and moreso when i had clearly made my position known before then and it was obvious there was no trap as the votes had been posted - this was a weak attempt to make me appear as if i was just trying to do something that i had already shown not to do - end day early.

HEM - aggressive player, just goes right out after people, attacking and going after reads which seem to be singular minded but strong played in your positions. If i were to look for scum tells here i would have to put HEM and James together in a pairing where they counter each other at points to keep the unpaired appearance. I would think the quick Voting HEM does is also bad, as could be a scum tell to be the early person on a vote, see if it hold ground by trying to get others to go along with it and so as to not appear as a late comer to the train.

James - for the most part i read as town, I like his questioning nature to look at things first to form an opinion. I haven't seen a pairing yet with him but that would basically make him a good pairing with myself if i were looking at scum read pair from outside the looking glass.

Nav/Ninja - Nav - i think here's a high likelyhood of pushing the scum look on a player gameplay, that again i was biased to as i played with before (JV), to push him to that breaking point some people have. Nav is playing the excellent townie role, and have most people believing he's town, which if most people think one thing it's the job of the last person to ask if it's true, i wonder if there is perhaps a great scum player lurking here. Ninja - This the Ying to Nav's Yang - Ninja is thoughtful - looking at Both HEM and JV and trying to read between the lines of the two of them looking for those clues others might of missed. But overall i think Nav/Ninja seem to both fit in the same mold here. I would think if JV flips Town - one of the two of them is scum.

No, those literally mean the exact opposite, ninjastore - orctin in his reads list was reading James as town and said "I haven't seen a pairing yet with him", which seemingly implied he had no viable partners. The explanation he gave after being questioned on this is the exact opposite of that. How are you pretending not to see this?

What Ninja said was exactly what i meant and stated - I didn't say James was town, i was noting that a partner to him would not have to be Monkey, but could be multiple people because of how playstyle and voting goes.

I kinda respect the fact Ninja was voting Micc all up until the end - and then him dying just doesn't make much sense to me from a Ninja scum perspective

This i agree with as well - and something i hadn't brought up - Micc was scum read by a couple people - for him to die, as Johnny, flipping town seemed odd as "Why kill him?" He was clearly going to be a player drawing interest and attention, so why eliminate a player that basically helped a scum player

You kind of did say "James was town".
"for the most part i read as town"

[JamesTheNames]

EBWOP catboi beat me to it, I for some reason didn't get that in the "posts made while making your post" bit when you click preview.

[JamesTheNames]

The whole game i had said i felt JV was town - So stick that in your "zero town reading pipe" and smoke it. Really getting irritating when people take what i say and twist it around cause they are so one dimensional in their thinking

How bout you read all of what i say and not just take 1 sentence as the whole meaning - in that post i was looking at pairs -

I had started directly above that line that i could see a HEM/James pair and why - or are you just blind to reading what you want to to help your arguments?

I then looked at it from just a James position - and yes i could see him "mostly" as town - But just because i think someone might be town - doesn't make it so - and if it's not so then who would he pair with. I was simply noting i didn't have a good idea of who would be a good pair with him, if he was scum and Monkey was town. As i know i'm not scum i didn't put much weight into it - but it doesn't mean i just give him a pass - i don't give anyone a pass - It's part of the game cause the best scum player will be the most town looking player out there. I refuse to be one dimensional and not suspect everyone of playing scum well

VOTE: catboi

I'll do this for the sake of it.

so far i had a town read on you and would only vote to elim you if it was a general concensious of the group.

I had read jackson town during day 1 and hadn't really looked to alter that much - but the suspicion of a JV/Dum pairing does raise the eyebrows there..

Jackson - at this point i'm looking at changing my opinion of him - I played game with him prior to this so had bit of bias to liking the player - but the frustration tactic day 1 to back off the attacks on themselves then the looking to opt out make me think we have a scum who basically have given up defending themselves now

[JamesTheNames]

What in the world is this?

so far i had a town read on you and would only vote to elim you if it was a general concensious of the group.

How is this a town read? I don't understand how you could eliminate a town read just because its a general consensus. If you're TOWN and you are convinced or believe STRONGLY that somebody is town, why would you eliminate them? It makes no sense. You should try and avoid a mis-elimination and to get one of your scum reads eliminated.

Orctin you're definitely not Town.

[JamesTheNames]

What in the world is this?

so far i had a town read on you and would only vote to elim you if it was a general concensious of the group.

How is this a town read? I don't understand how you could eliminate a town read just because its a general consensus. If you're TOWN and you are convinced or believe STRONGLY that somebody is town, why would you eliminate them? It makes no sense. You should try and avoid a mis-elimination and to get one of your scum reads eliminated.

Orctin you're definitely not Town.

Pot calling the kettle black there much? At this point i have found my "opportunistic scum"

Please respond to this.

[JamesTheNames]

do you know what I'm referring to?

You can feel free to enlighten me, town benefits nigh nothing from people keeping secrets.

Super can I get some response to this?

[JamesTheNames]

do you know what I'm referring to?

You can feel free to enlighten me, town benefits nigh nothing from people keeping secrets.

Super can I get some response to this?

ya sorry, it was what you said D1 about a PR read you had that pinged me and I was going on in my head whether to bring it up or not - so I made my dumb post half wanting to bring it up and half not - I'm just dumb like that and struggle at holding back on saying things, you can read it as what you want

I found it interesting because you said it and I think you were implying a PR read on Micc? you can correct me if I'm wrong on the read - I don't really wanna talk about PR stuff at all but I don't think you're going to leave me alone on it now and I take blame completely for being dumb about it

I completely forgot I actually posted about that. I of course won't be disclosing who I had a PR read on or if its changed, if they get night killed I'd prefer it to be random not due to me going "Oh yeah Fizz Raab seems like a Jail Doctor Cop", but I appreciate the clarity even though you didn't want to bring it up. I just wanted the clarification instead of the mystery.

[JamesTheNames]

Finally back, I'll catch up today and hopefully post something either later tonight or tomorrow morning

Welcome back, there's a few new faces since you were last part of the game.

Your favourite person with a rhyming name is still here.

[JamesTheNames]

Decided to factcheck Super's read of NinjaStore and found that he didn't really comment on the Micc slot after JF replaced in, so I'm not sure clearing him off the kill is all that sensible. I do think it'd be somewhat unusual for a new player to go with a full-throated partner defense on day 2, so if orctin is indeed scum he actually has a decent chance of being town, but the irrationality of his arguments against me and refusal to actually answer questions is annoying.

What do you mean by a full-throated parter defence?

[JamesTheNames]

Hi navi! Obviously me saying both to Catboi is a joke haha, but I do like pocketing people (being townread) as town cos then the game is easier for everyone

sorry I haven't been hyperposting much, I'm kinda struggling in this game cos its lack of interest and no one seems to be posting much. I struggle at getting reads without having constant back and forth interactions and I've kinda been waiting for people to be more active

I mean the game would be more active but I think the consensus is Orc is scum, and we were just waiting on Nav, I think we all know who we want to vote for.

[JamesTheNames]

VOTE: Orctin

E-1

[JamesTheNames]

UNVOTE:

No hammer yet please

Who would hammer? It would be a day 3 policy hammer if they had no explanation or declared no intent. Do you think Orc would self hammer?

[JamesTheNames]

EBWOP no declared intent*

[JamesTheNames]

While I don't think the day needs to be concluded right away, we are at less than 2 days until deadline. While I would like for navigatorv to catch up and provide input before we end the day, we can't keep waiting on them forever. We should be trying to get a claim in the near future.

I agree, I don't think we can force it soon without E-1.

[JamesTheNames]

Mine.

Share some top posts. This is mod power abuse.

[JamesTheNames]

This game might be cursed

Doesn't this only leave 3 of us who have been here for most of the game? Navigatorv and Orctin from the start, and I replaced in rather early.

[JamesTheNames]

Hello all! I'm currently reading through, but I'll let you know my thoughts when I'm caught up!

Hello there. This game has not been the most convenient. Any opinions at all will help so don't feel too pressured.

[JamesTheNames]

Hi navi! Obviously me saying both to Catboi is a joke haha, but I do like pocketing people (being townread) as town cos then the game is easier for everyone

sorry I haven't been hyperposting much, I'm kinda struggling in this game cos its lack of interest and no one seems to be posting much. I struggle at getting reads without having constant back and forth interactions and I've kinda been waiting for people to be more active

It's okay to let the game breathe if there's nothing new to say. Did you have any reads you actually wanted to discuss?

not really. I think you and unwnd are hopefully town

I think I'm the only one who isn't confident on an Orc vote because generally when it's a whole town consensus it makes me feel icky; I don't really know what they're doing though, I don't even know who they have townreads on; they're definitely lower in my PoE

I find it strange that Ninja subbed out and I don't wanna make speculations on why they subbed

Navi's catchup was meh

I like unwnd unvoting Orc, that was towny I guess

you can tell I'm really caring about this game lmao

You are aware how bad it will look for you if he flips red here?

[JamesTheNames]

What in the world is this?

so far i had a town read on you and would only vote to elim you if it was a general concensious of the group.

How is this a town read? I don't understand how you could eliminate a town read just because its a general consensus. If you're TOWN and you are convinced or believe STRONGLY that somebody is town, why would you eliminate them? It makes no sense. You should try and avoid a mis-elimination and to get one of your scum reads eliminated.

Orctin you're definitely not Town.

I haven't been replying to most posts individually since this was just a first read through, but this stuck out to me

If you are 90% sure that someone is town, but the choice is them or no elimination it's better to have the 10% chance to elim a scum than to guarantee the only kill until the next day to be town (from the nk), so I can see that as being a decent strategy

Yea no.

When he posted it there were still roughly 2 days, so the timing made no sense for one. Also if you are 90% sure that someone is town, which of the following do you think would be best:
1) Try to pressure someone else and get someone you aren't 90% certain is town hammered.
2) No Elimination
3) Hammer the town where in your eyes has a- I'll write it in English instead of the Arabic symbols- has a NINETY PERCENT chance to turn town.

You may notice I did it in the most logical order, they aren't random, its best to worst. From town eyes, if you genuinely think somebody has a 90% chance of being town, for you, it is wiser to not hammer anybody than to hammer the town read. 2 in 7 vs 2 in 8. From your eyes you are basically sure someone is town, why wouldn't you want to go into day 2 with 6 town 2 scum, and knowing with good odds (in your eyes) who is also town.

I also find it bizarre that you picked this one thing over everything else you could have picked up on.

[JamesTheNames]

Ok, so, most of these are gut reads because I am definitely going to have to re-read this thread tomorrow, but

Nav and Unwnd I feel pretty confident as town
Super has seemed town pretty far, but tbh, I may just like her personality
catboi's slot was looking a bit suspicious, but is being redeemed slowly
James I'm really unsure about, and the fact that their slot claimed scum in the first page is not helping.
Orctin had been null-scum for a while, but the recent posts make me feel that it's better safe than sorry

So, VOTE: Orctin

E-1

I like to ask a question with votes, especially important ones, so
Who are your top 2 town reads right now?

So, lets summarise these reads shall we?

Nav - Town
Unwnd - Town
Super - Town
Catboi - Null
James - Null
Orctin - Scum-Lean

Correct me if I'm wrong.

3 Town Reads
2 Null Reads
1 Scum LEAN

Personally, I find this strange, probably due to no reasonings, but regardless.
Considering the one thing you decided to comment on was basically a defence of Orctin, along with him as a "Null-Scum" read, seriously strikes me as being off.
You're acting reluctant to Scum read Orctin, without even giving us any reason for bad vibes from him. You picked up something for an "unsure about" read, but not for your main scum read? How Bizarre.
I'm not giving you options to E-1 "pressure" Orctin with easy questions to get out of suspicions. Not to mention when it is work-out-able who his town reads are.
I don't like combining a read with a slot's predecessor, but I'm pretty certain you/NinjaStore and Orctin are a scum pair.

For anyone wondering, these are my current reads from most Town to Least:
Catboi/Unwnd - Town
Navigatorv - Town
Super - Null
NinjaStore/Zyla - Scum
Orctin - Scum

The reasoning for Super being Null and not Town, is in case 836 is some weird attempt at backing off from the Orctin wagon. If somehow Orctin doesn't flip red Super is red.

UNVOTE: Orctin
VOTE: Zyla

[JamesTheNames]

I don't think the unvote from unwnd is a towntell and in fact his catch up had faint notes of scumwnd, though I don't feel like going into details right now.

Anyway, hi zyla .+:｡(ﾉ･ω･)ﾉﾞ

Is this not wanting to go deep into game logic and reads, or are you trying to do something strange like Super did in 751?

[JamesTheNames]

If Orctin is just set on letting himself die as town I'll feel stupid about it, but the way he's just decided to keep his mouth shut really makes me think this is right. You can consider the prospect of me bussing another time.

You seem wise, your take on Super potentially pushing the Orctin wagon then distancing from 751?

[JamesTheNames]

Sorry not 751
I meant 836

[JamesTheNames]

If Orctin is just set on letting himself die as town I'll feel stupid about it, but the way he's just decided to keep his mouth shut really makes me think this is right. You can consider the prospect of me bussing another time.

You seem wise, your take on Super potentially pushing the Orctin wagon then distancing from 751?

Super seems to bring her own energy, it's something I've noted while remaining present. Orctin/Super team at this rate would be two (aligned) people with different goals. Would Super want to save Orctin here by giving discretion and slightly shading you? It's possible. Do I think that's the reason Orctin/Super must make sense? Unlikely. I think Super as scum just does what would be second nature to Super as town. I can't read her flip-flopping decisively because I get that's just who she is as a person.

Apologies, I don't think they'd be a team to clarify, I think in the case Orctin doesn't flip red Super does instead.

[JamesTheNames]

my closing thought for the night is I want orctin to claim

I mean, surely it wouldn't make a difference if he did or didn't. If he is town there's no chance he is a Power Role, he's playing far too strangely to how I think a PR would act. There is someone I still think is a cop/neighbour but of course I'm not disclaiming who that is, I don't want scum getting any ideas.

[JamesTheNames]

Ok, so, most of these are gut reads because I am definitely going to have to re-read this thread tomorrow, but

Nav and Unwnd I feel pretty confident as town
Super has seemed town pretty far, but tbh, I may just like her personality
catboi's slot was looking a bit suspicious, but is being redeemed slowly
James I'm really unsure about, and the fact that their slot claimed scum in the first page is not helping.
Orctin had been null-scum for a while, but the recent posts make me feel that it's better safe than sorry

So, VOTE: Orctin

E-1

I like to ask a question with votes, especially important ones, so
Who are your top 2 town reads right now?

hi, thanks for liking my personality
can you explain these reads for me a little bit - why do you see Navi and Unwnd as town?
why was catboi looking suspicious? did you have any reads on his previous slot Jackson?
you think scum would outwardly claim it in the first page? (I haven't actually seen this post by James I might go look)

My predecessor was sarcy...

[JamesTheNames]

Quote wall 871

Hi navi! Obviously me saying both to Catboi is a joke haha, but I do like pocketing people (being townread) as town cos then the game is easier for everyone

sorry I haven't been hyperposting much, I'm kinda struggling in this game cos its lack of interest and no one seems to be posting much. I struggle at getting reads without having constant back and forth interactions and I've kinda been waiting for people to be more active

It's okay to let the game breathe if there's nothing new to say. Did you have any reads you actually wanted to discuss?

not really. I think you and unwnd are hopefully town

I think I'm the only one who isn't confident on an Orc vote because generally when it's a whole town consensus it makes me feel icky; I don't really know what they're doing though, I don't even know who they have townreads on; they're definitely lower in my PoE

I find it strange that Ninja subbed out and I don't wanna make speculations on why they subbed

Navi's catchup was meh

I like unwnd unvoting Orc, that was towny I guess

you can tell I'm really caring about this game lmao

You are aware how bad it will look for you if he flips red here?

If I was scum here and Orc was my partner I would definitely be bussing right now - especially if everyone was finding my partner scummy. I have immense TMI as scum and tend to find it really fucking hard to not bus my partners because I find them so scummy and tend to out reads on them that taints them in a bad light. The fact that I haven't even really had a strong scumtell on anyone is probably the biggest meta-reason I'm town this game; because I would have more information and therefore be able to probably taint at least one person in a bad light (aka my partner)

not to toot my own horn or anything, but I'm a pretty good scum-player. I'd likely be controlling the game a lot more than I am now and pushing my reads a bit harder, instead I am kinda nervous to vote and feel less confident in myself because I hate being wrong as town. I will admit this game hasn't been that interesting to me, I feel bad subbing in and being a bit useless, especially since town is my fav alignment and normally I care a lot more - I don't want the game to fully take over my life though (which tends to happen to me when I'm town and care too much also) so I've been a bit more laid back this game than all my previous ones. I have an immense fear of being wrong, and I have had a gut nervous feeling that Orc might be town - but tbh his posts have sucked and at this point I'm probably just going to vote him out based on PoE. If he flipped red I'd look bad if I was a damn noob, but because I'm pretty decent at being mafia it'd honestly clear me cos I know how to be towny as scum and make myself look pretty clear after my partner got voted off maybe I'm being a little arrogant here though (I could just be playing bad!!! but nah I'm too competitive lmao).

ANYWAYs, i'M SEmi offended you'd think Orc would be my partner here lmao, like c'mon James give me more credit

I'm trying to figure out what scums optimal move for claiming here would be (would mafia claim a PR at this point ? I feel like Orc as scum knowing he's getting voted would try and out a PR, anyone have thoughts on what they think he'd claim as scum?) - I think we have a few different scenarios also

Scenario 1:

Orc is Scum

I think if Orc is scum then his partner has probably also given up slightly (Ninja leaving(?) or Navi) - I doubt Catboi is ever Orc's partner here, I also don't really think Unwnd has potential for being his partner but I'd need to reread their interactions after the potential Orc flip, or James probably isn't (since putting him at E-1) unless he has TMI that Orc is scum and will try getting me voted tomorrow (also I just wanna say; James stop outing PR reads it's fucking anti-town).


Scenario 2:

Orc is town

The potential of Orc being town (which worries me the most) means that my reads are a bit blah.
At the moment I'm feeling pretty confident Catboi and Unwnd are town - however, if Orc flipped town I'd re-evaluate most of these reads (except for maybe Catboi, because I just tr Jackson p hard D1, and also I liked Catboi's posts about me today, I doubt he'd he interacting with me the way he is as scum and his meta-read on me is legit lmao, I appreciate you Gira <3)
James kinda irks me with his mindset sometimes - his reasoning for null-reading me is kinda funny, I think I've said enough to have a pretty solid understanding of my alignment by now and it feels like he randomly cherry picks things I say to make me seem scummy, teehee. But then also I dunno if he genuinely is just paranoid of my slot.

I wish I had a proper 1v1 back and forth with Navi to get a better idea of them, I was confused by a lot of their early posts and I wish they were here more to get a better read - I just struggle at the slow pace fuck it imma just mark Navi as town for now, honestly maybe even more than James - however, I could probably see a more likely Orc/Navi pairing than a James/Orc pairing

OH and another thing about James is the fact they voted Zyla instead of continuing to vote Orc could be seen as kinda towny (if Orc is town) because why would James start targeting someone different if town was already being voted - I think a town Orc flip would make James look good somewhat - but I wouldn't completely rule out a James/Orc pairing thus far

these are just ramblings without rereading off the top of my head btw, I haven't fully read into every player properly and only have guttish reads ngl. from order of towny to least I;mma just throw it out like this

Catboi
Unwnd
Navi
James
Ninja
Orc

ngl I probably have Navi/James/Ninja all really close together in my null and Orc leaning scum the most - actually, James is probably even higher lol lemme fix

MAYBE
Catboi
James
Unwnd
Ninja
Navi
Orc

ehhhhh, I really don't know. I'm honestly writing out this to kinda show how my reads are a jumble rn and I don't have a full fledged scumread cos I really mostly look for town and y'all haven't really even been that towny lmao, I read mostly on tone and I havent seen major towntells except from Jackson D1

I'm going to do a proper analysis and reread and out actual (hopefully) reads that make more sense to myself and you guys but right now I'm probably mostly feeling an Orc vote cos it makes the most sense to me - just cos I worry that it might be wrong and he could be town is not scummy btw James it actually just shows my normal towny Super colours

This response was a bit blown out of proportion. I didn't say you'd look scummy, just that it wouldn't look good for you, I don't think an explanation this size was needed at all.

I came into this game and I will go into all future games, treating everyone as if they're on the same level of ability, not including experience.

I'm still completely willing to hammer Orctin I just don't want Orctin fake pressured with easy questions, only for (potential)Scum-Zyla to feign like they did a good argument and to then town read Orctin.

I think my reasoning for Nulling you makes complete sense. I don't scum read you but in the case Orctin flipped red, and you backing off of the Orc vote for "generally when it's a whole town consensus it makes me feel icky". An Icky Feeling. Not particularly valid.

Additionally, not to ruin any spoilers, me and you are not Masons, I have no proof you are town, you saying how differently you'd play if you were scum rubs me the wrong way.

I also kind of wanted Orctin to respond somehow to the weird Power Role claim post thing I did in 866 cause at least if he didn't decide to claim a role we could have got something from that.

[JamesTheNames]

I find it weird that you said it'd look bad for me if Orc flips red and now you're saying it'd look bad if he flips town! James!!! get your act together!!!! what is it!!! do I just always look bad to you?? huh???

rude.

ok i'll stop being a muppet and ISO some peeps and get better reads cos otherwise I'm gonna just look like a saggy town mess and everyone will scumread me for it

Reads change, I disliked 836 for different reasons after different read overs. Unless if you're trying to encourage never to reread posts.

[JamesTheNames]

FWIW I don't like any of 871, 875, 877, 880. Sure I'm new to this site, from my perspective Self-Meta isn't indicative of anything, but is this not a bit overdone here? Kind of convenient for somebody you know to write a big list of what you do as scum for you to try your best not to do from this point?
Who knows? Maybe I'm just reading too far into it.

[JamesTheNames]

FWIW I don't like any of 871, 875, 877, 880. Sure I'm new to this site, from my perspective Self-Meta isn't indicative of anything, but is this not a bit overdone here? Kind of convenient for somebody you know to write a big list of what you do as scum for you to try your best not to do from this point?
Who knows? Maybe I'm just reading too far into it.

This is added to the Null Super Justification List.

[JamesTheNames]

I'm the Tracker.

[JamesTheNames]

Town wins here.

[JamesTheNames]

Night 1 I Zyla Jackson and got nothing, that's why I didn't pressure Jackson's slot day 2, maybe they were scum and only orc did both but I didn't think that was likely.
Nigh 2 I tracked Zyla, they didn't do anything, but a death occured, meaning they aren't a PR or scum.
If the other PR claims, and there are no counter claims, we know its one of the 2 remaining people, if there's a counter claim, we know its 50/50 either way.
Town wins.

[JamesTheNames]

Ignore the zyla in the first sentence i brainfarted
EBWOP
I tracked Jackson**

[JamesTheNames]

We have a victory day 3 or day 4 guaranteed.

[JamesTheNames]

So my humble opinion is that James is the last scum here. Now, I could be wrong and I have a backup option in that case(two actually) but im pretty sure James is the last scum here.
I have my reasons but I want to hear super's opinion first because she's someone that I TR the most now that catboi is dead

Claim, I'm 99% sure you're the other scum from this, but claim.

[JamesTheNames]

I'm the Tracker.

oh ok if you are, thats great. Scummy players being pr is the best thing in the world
if u are lying, u just dug ur own grave
so yeah this game should be basically solved given this claim.

The only world I get hammered here is if the scum player counter claims me, in which case they'd be hammered Day 4.

[JamesTheNames]

VOTE: Noraa

[JamesTheNames]

So my humble opinion is that James is the last scum here. Now, I could be wrong and I have a backup option in that case(two actually) but im pretty sure James is the last scum here.
I have my reasons but I want to hear super's opinion first because she's someone that I TR the most now that catboi is dead

Claim, I'm 99% sure you're the other scum from this, but claim.

I'm not going to claim lol. If you are actually the town tracker, you should consider why I, if scum would ever decide to come and SR you given you have been pretty widely TRed if I remember correctly. My slot was pretty widely TRed. If im scum, its easier to ride things out here and get ninja killed or something

I meant to quote 912 this was entirely my bad.

[JamesTheNames]

I'll go over this again, just to expalin why everybody should claim to guarantee a win.
If everybody claims, there is 1 of 3 things that will happen.

1)
I go uncontested, this means Zyla is conf town.
The other Power Role is uncontested.
Zyla is conf town
Scum is hiding in one of the last 2 slots.

2)
I go contested
The other Power role is uncontested
The other 2 claim town.
In this scenario, I'm lying, or the person who counter claimed me,
we have 2 days to eliminate both, meaning town wins because 1 of them is scum

3)
I go uncontested
The other Power Role goes contested
Zyla is conftown
The other person claims town
Out of the 2 people contesting the other power role, we have 2 days to hammer both, town wins



Not claiming is basically admitting you're scum.

[JamesTheNames]

Night 1 I Zyla Jackson and got nothing, that's why I didn't pressure Jackson's slot day 2, maybe they were scum and only orc did both but I didn't think that was likely.
Nigh 2 I tracked Zyla, they didn't do anything, but a death occured, meaning they aren't a PR or scum.
If the other PR claims, and there are no counter claims, we know its one of the 2 remaining people, if there's a counter claim, we know its 50/50 either way.
Town wins.

Assuming you aren't lying,
Zyla - town
Me - town
You - town
Scum in super/unwnd?

shiiiiit if that's the case, we're in a little trouble because I was thinking the scum was in James and ninja.
I'm assuming James isn't lying cuz lying as last scum is like suicide.

Claim and town wins.

[JamesTheNames]

Not claiming is basically admitting you're scum.

I won't claim this early in the day, sorry. However, if I believe claiming is necessary, I will do it.
Atm I think its not lylo and theres no actual need to claim?
suit yourself. I won't claim right now because that's antitown and narrows down the setup for scum.

Did you not read 925?
I've explained how no matter what town wins here.

[JamesTheNames]

So I guess that means that Noraa, Unwnd, and Super are our major suspects, but we've got a 1/3rd chance of being in a game with a mafia-roleblocker (and jailkeeper), so I guess I'm not 100% ruled out? (I mean, I am town, but I'm not confirmed yet I guess)
But I'm down for trusting James if no one else claims

Even if mafia roleblocked you N2, you're still town here.

[JamesTheNames]

Just to show it isn't any column C shenanigans I'm pulling.
If we assume there's a Cop and we're in row C, tracker makes no sense, no grid spot has Tracker + Cop. If there're masons, Tracker makes no sense. Meaning there must be a Jailkeeper if I claimed Tracker in Column C. First of all, in row C you'd have no way of knowing if there was a jailkeeper, you only get 1 kill, and if it's stopped, no kill occurs, this didn't happen N1 or N2, so if I were scum in Column C, I'd have no way of knowing if there was indeed a Jailkeeper. Secondly, I'd also claim Friendly Neighbour as Scum in Column C, it's much safer to argue I targetted JohnnyFarrar Night 1, and catboi Night 2. Claiming Tracker here is risky, as what if the person I happened to choose randomly as a track target, happened to be the Jailkeeper.

Anyway, that's the only 1 potential mechanical issue but that's explained now.

[JamesTheNames]

Oh I see

[JamesTheNames]

I think I may have messed up.

[JamesTheNames]

I was under the impression if they didn't do anything it would say no success.

[JamesTheNames]

My thing basically says. Your action did not succeed, no result.

[JamesTheNames]

I am so sorry

[JamesTheNames]

This is still town favoured though. I will be dead N3.
Yes N2 I investigated Zyla

[JamesTheNames]

I'm still leaning on a Zyla as Orctin's scum partner if my thing didn't count as clearing her. This is embarrassing.

[JamesTheNames]

What happens if a roleblocker and a jailkeeper target eachother, who wins?

[JamesTheNames]

What happened was either I was roleblocked or Jailed. What Noraa is suggesting, is that if the Jailkeeper targetted you, it means the roleblocker had to have targetted me, meaning if they targetted you they would out themselves, as we would then know the roleblocker had to have targetted me.

[JamesTheNames]

The other good thing is that we now know that scum have a role blocker.
If our JK targeted someone other than Zyla last night, then we know that scum role blocked Zyla and zyla is conftown.
So if that's what happened last night, mass claim should happen probably?
If that's not what happened and our JK JK'ed Zyla,
wait. ig another possibility is that James was blocked. Shit I didn't think about that.

No, if James got "No result", that means it was he who got Jailed, if I were jailed, he'd've gotten that I didn't go anywhere. It had to have been that one of the blockers targeted

james

.
Also, if I'm not mistaken, jailing prevents kills as well as being killed, so if we're lucky, the mafia blocked james and the jailer blocked someone else, as that other person would be confirmed town

PEdit: NewD3 states that Mafia blocks Jailkeeper from acting, and Mafia kills as normal

This means we win as long as the jailkeeper didn't target me.

[JamesTheNames]

hi

Hello.

[JamesTheNames]

This means I got roleblocked by the Jailkeeper most likely ;-;

[JamesTheNames]

also I will say I found Zyla asking Orc a few times what his townreads were near the end of D2 felt like they were grasping at ways to interact with their partner to create some sort of distancing - just a random thought I have had

ANYWAYS, obv if Zyla is the JK then I'm a dumbass and wrong about this read but I'm feeling pretty good atm

I'm glad someone else thought this

[JamesTheNames]

unwnd are you going to claim?

[JamesTheNames]

I'm assuming he is saying he is a villager too?

I think I know who is whom.

[JamesTheNames]

huh?

I was looking over some of Zyla's most recent posts. One stuck out, I want to see what Unwnd claims, or what Zyla claims.

[JamesTheNames]

UNVOTE: Noraa
VOTE: Zyla

[JamesTheNames]

[umvote]Zyla[/unvote]
I have an exam in about 7 hours so I'll actually respond after that. GMT things

[JamesTheNames]

UNVOTE: Zyla

[JamesTheNames]

mine

Stop stealing these!

[JamesTheNames]

Its hard to say who is most scummy, the only thing that has piqued my attention is Super's nonsense reason for no longer voting or wanting to vote Orctin Day 2.
Am I the only one who feels like it was just a bad excuse? Feeling icky because the game consensus was Orctin as scum?

[JamesTheNames]

also, James. I will say something about Orc that should make u less suspicious of me is the people he pushed on/tried to sway the elim onto. In the game I asked for from Orc as town he states when he is scum and being pushed on he tends to vote to try and push elsewhere - he does this a few times this game (I even pointed this out about Orc on d2) he pushes on Jackson/Catboi/Dum when put under pressure - all three being town (obv from my pov)

Orc tried multiple times to get the vote onto Dum cos Dum was a definite LHF most of this game - only when I subbed in did Orc decide to push elsewhere because my read on him was confusing. I can go into a proper case as to why Orc and I are never partners here but I'm on the exercise bike and am mostly rambling from memory

if you want a legit case as to why I'm town then I will

I mean of course I do? There's a blind 1/3 we get scum today, or 1/2 tomorrow, if we can increase the odds for any of you being town reads please do present your case.

[JamesTheNames]

I'm not gonna self-vote or anything ridiculous like that. One of you who is scum wants it more than me and that's fairly evident

I did what I had to even if Orctin's death wasn't exactly some grand revelation, a lot of people wanted him and I helped secure that. Am I going to take full credit? Of course not, but I am saying that I'm pretty sure town wins purely by the fact we have two undead PRs. There isn't much else for me to do here and I trust James/Zyla to figure it out

Why did you not express intent?

[JamesTheNames]

Express intent for what?

Would've preferred if you would've at least declared intent to hammer personally.

[JamesTheNames]

It's alright though, I would have done the same.

[JamesTheNames]

Was super being voted? I didn't realize

Sorry I meant for Orc my bad.

[JamesTheNames]

With five players alive, it will take 3 votes to eliminate somebody.

Day Three begins now and will last for 7 days:
(expired on 2021-06-19 21:20:26)

We've got a while still

My current order is:
Super 1st, Noraa 2nd, unwnd no.

[JamesTheNames]

VOTE: Super

[JamesTheNames]

Super and unwnd are both at E-1

[JamesTheNames]

James no offence but why are you townreading the scummiestcplayer of the day and voting me lmao?

I just wanted to double check your reaction to it.

[JamesTheNames]

Nice

Thank you for playing while you did.