Newbie 2067 - Pizza! - End!

[Zyla]

Questions for all:

Do you prefer playing as mafia or town?

Do you like pineapple on pizza?


For me, I'd say Town, and definitely, as my favorite kind is pineapple and black olives (with a slightly burnt thick crust so its got the nice mix of fluffy and crispy)

[Zyla]

Here's a random question to everyone.

How confident or nervous are you about winning this game?

Honestly, it's hard to be confident at this stage, but Luke is a pretty good player, so if he's on the Town side I'm pretty optimistic

Here's a random question to everyone.

How confident or nervous are you about winning this game?

I would say decently confident. I am coming into this game off of a pretty good game. Town win on Day 2

On the other hand, it would be hilarious if he were the scum this game

[Zyla]

Yeah, it depends on the particular game too, but it can be pretty fun

Spoiler: snip

Here's a random question to everyone.

How confident or nervous are you about winning this game?

Honestly, it's hard to be confident at this stage, but Luke is a pretty good player, so if he's on the Town side I'm pretty optimistic

Here's a random question to everyone.

How confident or nervous are you about winning this game?

I would say decently confident. I am coming into this game off of a pretty good game. Town win on Day 2

On the other hand, it would be hilarious if he were the scum this game

Oh Zyla, must we always be on opposing sides?

This pings me as being a partnery interaction/maybe a pocket from Luke, possible scum in these 2

Nah, we just finished Newbie 2065 so we're joking about it

[Zyla]

On the other hand, Zyla has not pulled out her random number generator for her RVS vote yet, maybe she is town this time lol

Tbh, it is

partly

that I just wanted to set the tone to be a little lighter, and RQS is a bit more playful than throwing votes out willy-nilly

[Zyla]

So I take it this is the point where the game goes from silly and random talk to about the game at hand?

There isn't really a "set" time to switch, but if you have some sort of read of someone somehow, or have more serious questions, feel free to throw them out there

Yeah, it depends on the particular game too, but it can be pretty fun

Spoiler: snip

Here's a random question to everyone.

How confident or nervous are you about winning this game?

Honestly, it's hard to be confident at this stage, but Luke is a pretty good player, so if he's on the Town side I'm pretty optimistic

Here's a random question to everyone.

How confident or nervous are you about winning this game?

I would say decently confident. I am coming into this game off of a pretty good game. Town win on Day 2

On the other hand, it would be hilarious if he were the scum this game

Oh Zyla, must we always be on opposing sides?

This pings me as being a partnery interaction/maybe a pocket from Luke, possible scum in these 2

Nah, we just finished Newbie 2065 so we're joking about it

Ahh Ok so its a meta read? Makes a little more sense, although I still SR luke a bit(less than before AND almost leaning null rn), because thier opening didnt sound that genuine from a townie perspective

Honestly I wasn't really reading anything from him yet, but

Spoiler: Newbie 2065

the Day 2 Win he mentioned was by eliminating me (mafia), so I was joking back that this time

he

could be the bad guy

[Zyla]

Honestly, I was expecting to have to wait until IRL tomorrow to have some reads either direction, but I guess I got a strong one early.

With that being said, I will vote Zyla for stealing my question

VOTE: Zyla

I find it interesting that you mention my question but don't actually respond to either of them

are we doing rqs instead of rvs?

i feel confident town will win, how's that?

Already found a confident town, SVD is town

What makes Dragon town from this post? If anything the wording is slightly off for town

Counterwagon this ASAP

What do you mean by this?

[Zyla]

VOTE: HockeyFan

[Zyla]

Honestly, I was expecting to have to wait until IRL tomorrow to have some reads either direction, but I guess I got a strong one early.

With that being said, I will vote Zyla for stealing my question

VOTE: Zyla

I find it interesting that you mention my question but don't actually respond to either of them

I mentioned it because I was going to ask the "Do you like pineapple on pizza" question and it seemed completely NAI but I wanted to see a reaction by voting u. I didn't bother to respond to the other one. I do not know why ignoring a RQS post is scum leaning?

Ignoring is NAI, but mentioning it and not responding seemed a little off to me.
I would still like to know though, do you prefer mafia or town?

are we doing rqs instead of rvs?

i feel confident town will win, how's that?

Already found a confident town, SVD is town

What makes Dragon town from this post? If anything the wording is slightly off for town

ehhh while the wording may be off, I think his original post was towny enough and

this read was pretty lackluster anyways so theres no need to pay too much attention to it

(Unbolded then rebolded for emphasis)
Honestly, while I'm not going to remember every read in the game, I don't think I want to just dismiss one, they can be pretty important

Counterwagon this ASAP

What do you mean by this?

There were a few votes on the table(cant exactly remember who), but none of them were on Luke and I thought Luke was scummy so I wanted to counterwagon Luke

I'm not entirely sure you understand wagons

[Zyla]

you can call me STD i don't mind

That's signature material right there

[Zyla]

So why ask it?

Right now it looks like you asked an RQS question to try and gauge alignment and then voted for somebody who hadn't had a chance to interact yet, and then dodged followup questions about it.

To be honest, I had two thoughts come up, and one was that question that meant little for the game, and playing how I would normally do, usually RVS.

See, the amusing thing about this is that that question is actually one that could be pretty informative. How confident are

you

abut winning?

[Zyla]

See post 86. So @HockeyFan, can you please explain why you think Luke would be scum defending me here?

For future reference, to easily link to a post, you can use the [post] tags around a number and it'll link to the post (It changes it to say something like once you hit preview, but that's just the internal id for the post)

[Zyla]

See post 86. So @HockeyFan, can you please explain why you think Luke would be scum defending me here?

Correct me if I am wrong but Luke is more experienced than you?(At least that is why what I think). I think Luke “defends” in an attempt to explain your RVS vote on me when Hachel started questioning you in 19 and 23 when he could just have ignored it. Furthermore, both of you are individually scummy. You for your reaction to some pressure from Haschel and

Luke for not being genuine enough through his first few posts.

Just curious, but how would you define the difference between not being genuine and cracking a few jokes? At least to me, while Luke was joking around, he seemed to be genuine.

But also, how does the fact that Luke is more experienced factor in? A more experienced scum would be

less

likely to defend their partner, as defending scum is in itself scummy.

I will say that this one seems more like confusing logic than a scummy post, but I guess we have the rest of the day to figure that out

[Zyla]

snip

I admit the whole "you guys are partners" read was based on very few things, post#24 just seemed odd to me. I SR u 2 indiually and while going through liogs I saw this and I was like "Hey, possible partners?". That partner association is gone from my head BUT you 2 still are scummy and CAN be partners but not because of 24

As for 147, again maybe its different expereinces but most poeple I've played with dont want to see their mafia partner condemmed d1(including me)

Inwardly, that's true, but a good scum player isn't going to show it. If they think that it's guaranteed that their partner is going to be eliminated they'll vote for them, if they don't they'll try and shift suspicion onto someone else.

[Zyla]

At this point I think he’s not even being serious.

Do u think hes not being serious as town or is just deliberately wasting towns time as scum?

Not sure, both are completely plausible but his grammar feels absolutely intentionally like that.

kinda like this from Strange more town points for them. Idk maybe Im completely wrong on this scum read which leads me to my next scum read of Zyla. I think Zyla is lazzily pushing me here as scum seeing that Cedricson, and a bit of Luke and crys were already pushing me. I think she was looking for an easy mislim by further pushing/burrying me while also having no other intent than to tunnel me

Luke wasn't even thinking you were scummy though, where are you getting this narrative?

[Zyla]

And Cyrus hadn't posted yet when I announced my read

[Zyla]

Spoiler: snip

At this point I think he’s not even being serious.

Do u think hes not being serious as town or is just deliberately wasting towns time as scum?

Not sure, both are completely plausible but his grammar feels absolutely intentionally like that.

kinda like this from Strange more town points for them. Idk maybe Im completely wrong on this scum read which leads me to my next scum read of Zyla. I think Zyla is lazzily pushing me here as scum seeing that Cedricson, and a bit of Luke and crys were already pushing me. I think she was looking for an easy mislim by further pushing/burrying me while also having no other intent than to tunnel me

Luke wasn't even thinking you were scummy though, where are you getting this narrative?

He didnt? I was getting the assumption by him pushing me by pressuring me about the fact that I SR him and Strange. and fwiw, A. I said

a bit of

and thats not even the main content of my post

Pedit:

Okay Cyrus didnt post. Why does that change that your push was meh and based on other ppl pushing me?

I don't have any more response to this. My first post about you had enough information that saying it was only based on other people pushing you just seems insincere.

[Zyla]

Spoiler: snip

At this point I think he’s not even being serious.

Do u think hes not being serious as town or is just deliberately wasting towns time as scum?

Not sure, both are completely plausible but his grammar feels absolutely intentionally like that.

kinda like this from Strange more town points for them. Idk maybe Im completely wrong on this scum read which leads me to my next scum read of Zyla. I think Zyla is lazzily pushing me here as scum seeing that Cedricson, and a bit of Luke and crys were already pushing me. I think she was looking for an easy mislim by further pushing/burrying me while also having no other intent than to tunnel me

Luke wasn't even thinking you were scummy though, where are you getting this narrative?

He didnt? I was getting the assumption by him pushing me by pressuring me about the fact that I SR him and Strange. and fwiw, A. I said

a bit of

and thats not even the main content of my post

Pedit:

Okay Cyrus didnt post. Why does that change that your push was meh and based on other ppl pushing me?

I don't have any more response to this. My first post about you had enough information that saying it was only based on other people pushing you just seems insincere.

Okay it may not be

only

, but it was defintely based somewhat on other peoples reads?(may be wrong on this)

Nope, just you

[Zyla]

pav pins me as scum

I dont like this at all. Pav has made about 1-2 reads and his read on u was pretty genuine and came from a town perspective so what part of their reaction do u think is scum?

I don't know how the hell to read Cyrus actually, he could be scum just flooding the thread with smoke or a VT trying to draw the NK or get lynched

tha is the point i dont want to be to town. people who are to town get nk . people who scum think are easy lynches get though to d2.

You do want to be town though. If you don't get read as town, you're going to end up on the chopping block, which if you're town wastes an elimination. And if you're mafia, being read as town is the entire point

[Zyla]

oh are you trying to shad . i think i found some town with that reaction test . makeing it easyer for me to short

I actually want to cycle back to this tbh. What TR did that "reaction test" give you?

[Zyla]

crumbs aren't always good to leave because scum hunt for them

they can be helpful but beware

I actually lost my last game because I interpreted a joke as a breadcrumb and made it too obvious that I was PR hunting, so I can definitely see even fake-crumbs as useful when used correctly. Unfortunately, I'm not quite experienced enough to use them correctly, even if that seems like a cop out

I'll reiterate and say I get it. I won't deny the other side of it being 'adding flavor to the game' or 'reaction testing' or whatever it may be. It very well could be just that. Regardless of whether or not it is that, I don't vibe with it at all for reasons stated, and my vote will stay where it is for now.

go for it if anything my wagon helps me.

Considering that this is a newbie game and you are not a Jester, I see no way that that makes sense. How could being seen as scummy be good for you?
Also, do you have an answer to 240?

[Zyla]

Spoiler: snip

In Virgil's Aeneid (finished circa 19 BCE), Celaeno, the Harpy queen, foretold that the Trojans would not find peace until they were forced by hunger to eat their tables. Later in the poem, Aeneas and his men sat down to a scanty meal that included round breadcakes (like pita bread) topped with cooked vegetables. As they ate the round breadcakes, they realized these were the "tables" Celaeno had foretold.

Aeneas, handsome Iulus, and the foremost leaders,

settled their limbs under the branches of a tall tree,

and spread a meal: they set wheat cakes for a base

under the food (as Jupiter himself inspired them)

and added wild fruits to these tables of Ceres.

When the poor fare drove them to set their teeth

into the thin discs, the rest being eaten, and to break

the fateful circles of bread boldly with hands and jaws,

not sparing the quartered cakes, Iulus, jokingly,

said no more than: “Ha! Are we eating the tables too?”

Ngl, this is making me hungry for "tables"

But I've already had pizza twice this week

[Zyla]

Considering that this is a newbie game and you are not a Jester, I see no way that that makes sense. How could being seen as scummy be good for you?

Can't fully answer this yet

Because of ongoing games, or are you waiting until day 2?

[Zyla]

To that end, hey Zyla, are you scum with Luke this game? The universe is a funny place and if this game turns out that way it'll give me the tingles.

Haha, that would be hilarious, but not this time

[Zyla]

Do you normally change in ways that make you harder to sort in your current game?

cant answer that.

Considering that this is a newbie game and you are not a Jester, I see no way that that makes sense. How could being seen as scummy be good for you?

Can't fully answer this yet

wild

i cant answer this right now.

?? Idk why you're using this as a way to "defend yourself"/give Pav a way to read u since u said in posts 205 and 224, "I change my meta every game"

i cant answer this right now.

Ok so since this seems to be your main answer to questions, how about you just tell us what you can answer?

[Zyla]

Unless the moderator says otherwise, I think we need to stop this conversation (Rule Misc3)

[Zyla]

Alright, since a topic change is in order, this seems like a good time to post my reads

Towny
Azeru - Honestly, 94 felt towny to me, which is mostly a gut read, but they keep up the towniness through the rest of their posts so I'm letting it stand.
Pav - Extremely scumy vibes from 85 (/joke) Honestly I like 102 as a start, and 268 seems like pretty good analysis to me even if I disagree on some points

Null (Town-Lean)
Luke - He isn't playing any differently than our last game, which he was town, and he hasn't done anything scummy, but I don't want to give him too much credit just from meta (as that's my least favorite way of playing), and while his posts have been good for the town, a lot of them read more as a more experienced player trying to make sure everyone understands the dos and don'ts than anything

particularly

towny.

Null
Haschel - Haschel seems to be an aggressive player, which can be good or bad, but I need a few more posts before I'll have a good read
Dragons - I gotta say, I do

not

like 13. It seems odd to me that an experienced player would even post that, it feels like he's distancing himself from town for some reason. The rest of his iso just doesn't seem to have much substance, no questions asked, no real jumping points for discussions.

Scum Leaning
Strange - Honestly, looking through their Iso, I just see a lot of posts with very little to say. Mostly gut read though

Scum
Hockey - I feel like I've made my case enough here


And then there's Cyrus. Honestly, whether or not he's town, I don't think his play is being very helpful to the town. Overall it seems like the only thing he's doing is confusing everyone

[Zyla]

i don't like how lukewarm accused me of pocketing him

there are you happy now

I.. feel like that's actually worse

[Zyla]

Oh no, feel better soon, allergic reactions are not fun.

[Zyla]

im so hoping i dont die tonight.

First, Happy Scumday!
But what makes you think that you're going to die tonight?

[Zyla]

inch fast that hat earth right east. in soon after dont only count, shoot ant vest every . match empty.

good luck

sigh, you are actually so hard to read because half of the time, idk what you're saying lol

its not ment for everyone to read its a code

The more cyrus says stuff like this, and mentions his code unprovoked, the less I believe it.

Like, why bring up the code in the first place if it is real?

Why right this new message, but then be okay with hockeyfan not being able to read it, because if both messages are true, then for all he knows hockeyfan is the exact person he needs to read it?

It is all seeming manipulative / performative at this point

Honestly, I'm surprised that HockeyFan can't read it tbh, but I'm not gonna give them scum points for that or anything
I will ask though, apart from HockeyFan, does everyone know what Cyrus is saying? Because I don't necessarily believe it, but it seems like he's refusing to answer any questions, so if the information is already out there I'd like to make it

known

that it's out there. (And if over 50% of us have figured it out, then chances are at least one of the mafia has, and if one of them know, both of them do)

[Zyla]

ok smart one what does it say.

I am town tracker.

if there. is a doc, save. me.

it i

funny how you read me.

[Zyla]

I will admit to overlooking the first one until he brought attention back to it though.

Same.
Anyway, that's Me, Luke, Pav, Azeru, and I

think

HC who've said they understand, which to me says there's a good chance that mafia already knows even if we don't say it in the open

[Zyla]

Posted those backwards, whoops

[Zyla]

Honestly I can think of some ways where it might have a higher chance of success than failure, but overall the only thing he could do with it is PR hunting, and I don't think I'd be risking an elimination over that if it failed (especially in my first post)

That said, if Cyrus does end up as being scum, to me it's going to feel like a nail in the coffin for HockeyFan

[Zyla]

It's Acrostics, there's only one way to decode

[Zyla]

not everyone veers every read. go on, not now all. get in very easily yesterday on under under pain. not everyone veers every read! go on, not now all. lose everything to yesterday on under. don't over worry now.

+50 scum points

[Zyla]

never. gonna. give you up. never! gonna. let you. down.

going to spend hours trying to figer out what this mean . but from what i see we either have doctor of friendly which std may be either

Hm.

[Zyla]

@luke, do you see the same issue I do with cyrus' 414?

[Zyla]

Honestly I'm not sure what to discuss right now. I was hoping that HC would say something that could get some sort of conversation started, but it's been a while since we've seen him

[Zyla]

Actually looking back, there hasn't seemed to be much interactions between Pav and Azeru other than 1 read from Pav awkwardly null reading them?

I'm curious, what reads awkward about that read to you?

[Zyla]

Actually looking back, there hasn't seemed to be much interactions between Pav and Azeru other than 1 read from Pav awkwardly null reading them?

I'm curious, what reads awkward about that read to you?

Its defintly not conclusive but in 268, he goes from Tring back to giving reasons why they're scum just a few words later which is ??? His scum read didnt even have any reasoning on why hes scum fwiw so I have 0 clue why based on that, Pav decides to read Az as neutral but could be just me?

To me that seems fairly normal, he's got some town vibes, but also some scummy vibes, and they cancel out

[Zyla]

Yeah, technically prod time was about ~8 hours ago, so I'm thinking ffery just hasn't had a chance yet

[Zyla]

Cyrus looks to be quoting every single post, in order at this point....

Is it possible to make it to where I see everyone's posts except for cyrus for the time being?

That would be so helpful honestly, but no, I don't think so

Actually if you go to your user settings you can set him as a "foe" and apparently it will hide their posts? Haven't tried it yet but that might do it.

I think that's disabled in certain forums (such as games)

[Zyla]

VOTE: zyla for pushing me even though they knew i was pr.

What are you meaning by push here?

I see we're still on Cyrus's messiness for some reason. Folks, there are better things to focus your mental energies on. He wants the thread full of smoke for some reason, and whether you think he's town or think he's scum, you're letting him run the game by engaging with the smoke. I will again recommend that we move on for now.

I've been driving all day, but I'll dive into some more reads this evening now that I'm back at home. (And back on a computer I can actually post properly from.)

Also @Luke, the bit about Zyla being town this time after mafia in last game was a joke, of course. RNG can never be trusted, unless you're trusting it to be untrustworthy. I keep forgetting sarcasm has been outlawed in this game

ofc smoke makes the world more fun. btw we just have to find the two most likely scum . have the doc save me. well we track the other . if its a friendly im dead either way. but have the friendly message who they think is town. if they dont reveal it then we know they are scum. if its a jail keep and they lock up who they think is scum after we lynch the 1st . we still win . if we flip town by mistake since im the nk have them lock me up no death and we still have 8.

smoke doesn't do anything for town

or

make the game enjoyable, it just frustrates and confuses

Where is the me and cedricsson pair coming from? I've barely interacted with cedricsson

This could be a scum slip. So I'm noting it for later

What slip?

i thought it was weird that haschel was voting a newbie for not responding because a newbie might not know that they generally need to respond to everything

you havent done hardly anything tthis game . i gave you alot of points for reading the code 1st but then you droped off. i will have to mark you as null now for the time be.

How does reading an acrostic have to do with town?

[Zyla]

Vanilla Town is the best role because not only do I get to give zero fucks about drawing the nightkill, it's actually good for me to draw it.

StrangeMatter: Why Hockeyfan?

to every one this isnt a clime its a answer to a question.

I'm actually kinda glad that you say that, because that was my thoughts too, it seems like a reasonable response to my question. I just left it alone because I wanted to see where people were going with that and then it seemed too late to bring it up

[Zyla]

look im tt. if any one wanted to they could have counter claimed or started voting for me saying that. i dont trust my own reads. heck in class during test i would always 2nd guise my self.

You have claimed to be TT, yes.

So far

no one has counter-claimed, yes. That does not 100% mean you

are

town tracker.
You could be a Mafia Goon with a Goon partner and thought "Hey, 66% chance that no one is able to counter if I claim TT, let's give it a shot".
Could be that no PR is willing to out themselves day one.
While it seems most likely that you're town, that doesn't mean that players shouldn't try and read you anyway.

Also, the double vote on HC almost gave me a heart attack before I realized that you already had your vote there and it was still E-1.

[Zyla]

thanks you ruined it.

What do you expect to gain from someone thinking they're already dead??

[Zyla]

Cyrus I don't think that that's gonna be very effective

I will come back later tonight. My grandpa died 30 minutes ago and that has knocked this down my priority list.

Please don’t kill me before then.

Sorry to hear that. And that definitely takes precedence over the game, so don't feel too rushed

[Zyla]

Honestly, my top 3 SRs are Hockey, Strange, and Fen.
I'm gonna try and go through their ISOs to explain why

[Zyla]

Here's a random question to everyone.

How confident or nervous are you about winning this game?

I'm very confident winning this game now because you have outed as scum by voting me so the 2 mafia are already outed to me

So, going through ISOs I actually found this kind of interesting. I didn't really notice it much the first time, and mostly thought it was a joke, but Hockey is saying "the

2

mafia are [known] to me". Strange is supposed to be the first of course, but who's the second one?

On the topic of HockeyFan, this is actually really interesting to me.

As far as I can tell, it seems like all of your scum leans have been partner reads so far. Is that coincidence or is it just your style to look more specifically for pairs then any individual player?

I tend to go for partnery reads alot more since mafia partners tend to have associative tells

Slightly random question for Hockey from this: if I were scum, who do you think my partner would be?

Probably should have worded this better. In post 268, you TR them in the first line but your final read is a null read on them? Your SR in that post was left blank(presumably because u

didnt

SR them)

I think you are not parsing out his comments the same way I am

Azeru - in 135 points out, rightly, that we somehow managed to get Hockey to e-1, and calls for us to chill the hell out. Read: town. But also establishes as somebody watching and tracking the game very closely. Read:scum. End result, I dunno. Neutral I guess.

I read that as

"Azeru - in 135 points out, rightly, that we somehow managed to get Hockey to e-1, and calls for us to chill the hell out. Read: town" Pav is giving Azeru townie points for 135

"But also establishes as somebody watching and tracking the game very closely. Read:scum" Pav is giving Azeru scummy points for this

"End result, I dunno. Neutral I guess" Since Pav has things that ping Azeru as scum and things that ping Azeru as town, they ended on neutral

Oh ok Yea I see now, I thought he formatted his comments like I tr Azeru <reasons> SR azeru : <nothing>. and at the very end, he Null read them. Okay well if thats the case azeru/pav probs arent partners but one of them is the 2nd scum

So, around this time, you had Azeru as a hard town read. If you were thinking either Pav or Azeru had to be scum, how come that didn't make you want to vote Pav?

[Zyla]

@mod who is not voting

Luke and HC

[Zyla]

@mod who is not voting

Luke and HC

funny huh.

How so? We've got a ton of time left and they currently don't have someone they want to keep their vote on, that seems like it's NAI to me

Maybe I am addressing the wrong person....

@Zyla, why do you think that Hockey is scummy?

Honestly, it mostly gut and possibly some confirmation bias at this point, but I haven't seen enough towniness to counteract the things I've pointed out before previously.

Also, Zyla, did you have any thoughts on Strange wrt 698

To me, while that's definitely a possibility, it's also quite possible for scum!strange that their partner is inexperienced, doesn't use the PT, etc. I don't think it does enough for their case to count it either way

Spoiler:

Here's a random question to everyone.

How confident or nervous are you about winning this game?

I'm very confident winning this game now because you have outed as scum by voting me so the 2 mafia are already outed to me

So, going through ISOs I actually found this kind of interesting. I didn't really notice it much the first time, and mostly thought it was a joke, but Hockey is saying "the

2

mafia are [known] to me". Strange is supposed to be the first of course, but who's the second one?

On the topic of HockeyFan, this is actually really interesting to me.

As far as I can tell, it seems like all of your scum leans have been partner reads so far. Is that coincidence or is it just your style to look more specifically for pairs then any individual player?

I tend to go for partnery reads alot more since mafia partners tend to have associative tells

Slightly random question for Hockey from this: if I were scum, who do you think my partner would be?

Probably should have worded this better. In post 268, you TR them in the first line but your final read is a null read on them? Your SR in that post was left blank(presumably because u

didnt

SR them)

I think you are not parsing out his comments the same way I am

Azeru - in 135 points out, rightly, that we somehow managed to get Hockey to e-1, and calls for us to chill the hell out. Read: town. But also establishes as somebody watching and tracking the game very closely. Read:scum. End result, I dunno. Neutral I guess.

I read that as

"Azeru - in 135 points out, rightly, that we somehow managed to get Hockey to e-1, and calls for us to chill the hell out. Read: town" Pav is giving Azeru townie points for 135

"But also establishes as somebody watching and tracking the game very closely. Read:scum" Pav is giving Azeru scummy points for this

"End result, I dunno. Neutral I guess" Since Pav has things that ping Azeru as scum and things that ping Azeru as town, they ended on neutral

Oh ok Yea I see now, I thought he formatted his comments like I tr Azeru <reasons> SR azeru : <nothing>. and at the very end, he Null read them. Okay well if thats the case azeru/pav probs arent partners but one of them is the 2nd scum

So, around this time, you had Azeru as a hard town read. If you were thinking either Pav or Azeru had to be scum, how come that didn't make you want to vote Pav?

Alright so as for 21, it was merely a meme.
If you were scum, you could be partners with about anybody tbh(except Strange(maybe))

Yes there is still a possibly of their being

1 scum between them

, but I am more confident in STD flipping scum(and being the 2nd mafia) rn so that is why I am pushing it more

Honestly, I'm not sure that quite answers my question: at

that

point, when you seemed sure that one of them was scum, and you were sure Azeru was town, why didn't you vote for or question Pav?

[Zyla]

Also of note, Strange says that Zyla is a "decently good townread". No explanation is given.

So, is Zyla a good townread? She certainly has a long enough ISO that we should be able to find out. But are those posts substantial? No. No they are not. Out of all of her posts I was only able to pinpoint four that look like they are scumhunting or scumhunting-adjacent: A vote on Hockey with weak reasoning, a minor defense of Lukewarm with weak reasoning, a list of reads where the scumreads are justified with "Mostly gut read" on Strange and "I feel like I've made my case enough here" on Hockey (she has not btw).

Apologies if I haven't explained my views on Hockey as well as I thought, tbh I'm not always the best at explaining my thoughts, and that's part of why I like this game, since it's a fun way to practice. I'll try and go back and figure out what needs fleshing out, but is there a particular part of it that you think needs improvement?

From looking at your mentions of him, I think it boils down to him avoiding your questions early in the day, and then you think his reads are not genuine because he can't back them up or outright walks them back when you press him on it

Spoiler:

18->74 with STD
112->153 with me
194->211 with you
544->738 with Pav and Azeru

Ye, I think that's pretty much it. Also the fact that I'm still not sure what his initial TR on Fenrir was even supposedly based on.

I am not sure that I saw enough in your iso to shake my own read on him, but I will give it a second look.

That's fair, honestly until we get NK info I don't think my read on him is going to change, but it's not like it's a 100% chance he's scum either

Pedit: haven't had a chance to look at 766+ yet, will reply to those after eating supper

[Zyla]

I think that Zyla has not done as good of a job summarizing her read as she could, but she is definitely pushing him over posts that she thinks are scummy.

70 into 87, pressing him over his STD read, and calling him out for trying to back off of it
She presses him over his read of me in 155 and 157
She presses him over his read of her in 207
And then she pushes him again in 720
And then again in 757

Okay, let's look deeper at these posts she thinks are scummy.

• HockeyFan mentions that an RQS question was asked and doesn't answer it -> "I find it interesting that you mention my question but don't actually respond to either of them" and "Ignoring is NAI, but mentioning it and not responding seemed a little off to me."
  
  
  I don't know how many fucks the rest of you give towards a player not answering a blatant RQS question, but I promise you your number is way too high.

In d1, how are we supposed to gather information? Random Questions seem as good a way as any, so isn't it better to answer them? And again, it's the fact that he interacted with the question but refused to answer.

[*]

Hockey makes a weak read -> Zyla points out it is weak -> Hockey acknowledges it was weak -> Zyla attacks Hockey for backing down from a read she herself pointed out was weak in the first place.

I'm confused on this one. Could you quote the posts in question?

[*]

Hockey says he didn't feel Luke was genuine in his first few posts -> Zyla attacks something that pretty much by definition is a subjective feeling, and adds that experienced scum would be less likely to defend their partner.

That was a genuine question, where does the line fall between not being genuine and cracking a joke? Are jokes inherently scummy?

While bussing is a thing, in a game with two scum it's incredibly important that the scum don't lose a member on Day 1, so this is an incredibly weak defense of Luke.

Of course they don't want to lose a member, but Luke would know that a page

1

vote wouldn't be important enough to warrant trying to defend their partner.

[*]

HockeyFan mentions that Lukewarm had thrown minor suspicion onto HockeyFan along with Cyrus, although most pressure had come from me -> Zyla points out that Lukewarm wasn't thinking that Hockeyfan was scummy.

That, of course, ignores the fact that Lukewarm had indeed been applying pressure to Hockey; Luke's 84/145/147/148/151/164 are certainly adversarial enough with regards to Hockeyfan that I have no problem whatsoever with Hockeyfan interpreting it as a minor attack on him.

At least to me, those seemed to be clearly engagement, not attacks or a scum push. I suppose I might not have looked at it from Hockey's viewpoint well enough though

The remaining posts all refer to things that were said after I read Zyla's ISO but I'll indulge you anyway.


[*]

Zyla attacks Hockey for a supposed scumslip in Hockey's very first post of the game.

I don't care about the RVS stage at all on page 2; I'm not gonna start caring on page 31. I can't analyze the rest of this post or 757 until I do the deep dive on HockeyFan.[/list]

All of that is weak as hell.

That seems like a personal problem to me. Everything is important on some level, and if I see something I missed earlier while looking at an ISO, I intend to bring it up.

[Zyla]

Sorry to make a 2nd post devoid of real content. RL got out of hand today and the thread went to 100 mph again... It'll be tomorrow morning before I can post anything of substance.

Sorry dudes.

Missed seeing this earlier, but I hope everything goes well and/or gets better

[Zyla]

You know, I never really understand what people have against people defending each other. Like yes, stepping in front of a question that was asked specifically to someone can hurt the town at spots, but if someone is accusing someone and you disagree with the reasons, why *wouldn't* you step in and say "that doesn't seem right to me"?

Even if I agree with someone's read on someone, I'll step in on occasion if I think that their reasoning is off. Whether or not the person is scum, it ends up bringing discussion to the table, which is always good

[Zyla]

Zyla, please make a scum case on Hockey if you think that is a better push then Strange. Assume I have no idea why you are suspicious of him, Talk to me like I am 5.

Here goes:

Hey everyone! Glad to be playing some fourm mafia! First time playing and super exicted

With that being said, I will vote Zyla for stealing my question

VOTE: Zyla

Whether or not other people think it's scummy,

personally

I didn't and still don't like the fact that my questions were acknowledged but not answered. (And to clarify, I didn't care about the pineapple part, that was just to spark discussion, but I think that your preference can give some insight to your play)

are we doing rqs instead of rvs?

i feel confident town will win, how's that?

Already found a confident town, SVD is town

you guys have reads already?

Definitely not conclusive reads, but I think you are town(See post#18). This is the only [semi-]conclusive read I have. The earlier read I did have of Luke maybe pocketing Zyla has now been sent to null, wbu? Do u have any reads

I'm still trying to figure out what about this could give a town read, let along a semi-conclusive one. If anything, it felt not like "I'm town and confident we'll win" but more "Town's gonna win, even if I don't want them to", although I suppose that's a bit subjective

Spoiler:

Here's a random question to everyone.

How confident or nervous are you about winning this game?

I'm very confident winning this game now because you have outed as scum by voting me so the 2 mafia are already outed to me

So, going through ISOs I actually found this kind of interesting. I didn't really notice it much the first time, and mostly thought it was a joke, but Hockey is saying "the

2

mafia are [known] to me". Strange is supposed to be the first of course, but who's the second one?

On the topic of HockeyFan, this is actually really interesting to me.

As far as I can tell, it seems like all of your scum leans have been partner reads so far. Is that coincidence or is it just your style to look more specifically for pairs then any individual player?

I tend to go for partnery reads alot more since mafia partners tend to have associative tells

Slightly random question for Hockey from this: if I were scum, who do you think my partner would be?

Probably should have worded this better. In post 268, you TR them in the first line but your final read is a null read on them? Your SR in that post was left blank(presumably because u

didnt

SR them)

I think you are not parsing out his comments the same way I am

Azeru - in 135 points out, rightly, that we somehow managed to get Hockey to e-1, and calls for us to chill the hell out. Read: town. But also establishes as somebody watching and tracking the game very closely. Read:scum. End result, I dunno. Neutral I guess.

I read that as

"Azeru - in 135 points out, rightly, that we somehow managed to get Hockey to e-1, and calls for us to chill the hell out. Read: town" Pav is giving Azeru townie points for 135

"But also establishes as somebody watching and tracking the game very closely. Read:scum" Pav is giving Azeru scummy points for this

"End result, I dunno. Neutral I guess" Since Pav has things that ping Azeru as scum and things that ping Azeru as town, they ended on neutral

Oh ok Yea I see now, I thought he formatted his comments like I tr Azeru <reasons> SR azeru : <nothing>. and at the very end, he Null read them. Okay well if thats the case azeru/pav probs arent partners but one of them is the 2nd scum

So, around this time, you had Azeru as a hard town read. If you were thinking either Pav or Azeru had to be scum, how come that didn't make you want to vote Pav?

Alright so as for 21, it was merely a meme.
If you were scum, you could be partners with about anybody tbh(except Strange(maybe))

Yes there is still a possibly of their being

1 scum between them

, but I am more confident in STD flipping scum(and being the 2nd mafia) rn so that is why I am pushing it more

Honestly, I'm not sure that quite answers my question: at

that

point, when you seemed sure that one of them was scum, and you were sure Azeru was town, why didn't you vote for or question Pav?

And then there's this, he went from thinking Azeru was the most town, to thinking Azeru was scumteam with Pav, then that either Azeru or Pav was scum (but not pushing either of them), to possibly both town. I don't follow how his reads developed there at all

Honestly, there's less there then I was thinking, and I'm going down to scum-leaning null, but to me it doesn't seem to add up

[Zyla]

Code: Select all

You want to put [post]42[/post] tags around the post number, it'll do the linking for you

So far from ISOs, I think that Zyla has been generally Town, but I think the first part of 842 didn't sit well with me. I just don't see why that would be considered scummy to acknowledge the question that was designed to have many people answer the question. Maybe its just my thought process when it comes to Town, but I'd like to hear Zyla's logic regarding that post.

My main thing with the acknowledgment is that they saw my questions, mentioned them, but seemed to refuse to interact with them until I pushed them on it.
If he hadn't interacted with it at all I might not have even thought about it, but the fact that he practically said he refused to answer it rubs me the wrong way.

[Zyla]

So far from ISOs, I think that Zyla has been generally Town, but I think the first part of 842 didn't sit well with me. I just don't see why that would be considered scummy to acknowledge the question that was designed to have many people answer the question. Maybe its just my thought process when it comes to Town, but I'd like to hear Zyla's logic regarding that post.

I see. What strikes you as particularly town?

After that first one that I felt was a little weird from, the question raised in 842 about Hockey initially TR STD felt reasonable to me. Even though its early in the game, it doesn't seem strange to point something like this out it. Still, I think I'll put her as a Town lean for right now.

I think it linked to the 842nd post in the entire forum because of the <post=842> with no end tag on the first part, occasionally unclosed tags in quotes can cause problems like that (carrots don't work in bbcode so this is fine)

[Zyla]

Just throwing this out there to help town. StrangeMatter is at e2 and std is at e3 if this remains even if there's no hammer StrangeMatter still dies

If I'm not mistaken, all newbie games require a hammer, time running out is a no-elim

[Zyla]

Towny

Pav
Luke
Azeru

Dragon
Strange

HC ~ Hockey

Scummy

Honestly, my most extreme reads are only leans rn (hence no one in full green or red), but that's where I'm standing rn

And also there's Cyrus who's just sort of ... existing outside of reads right now

[Zyla]

no deaths well thanks doc who ever you are. lukewarm went no where last night

To clarify:
Did you get "No action"? Or "No result"?

[Zyla]

no deaths well thanks doc who ever you are. lukewarm went no where last night

To clarify:
Did you get "No action"? Or "No result"?

my action went though it said lukewarm went no where

Awesome, just wanted to make sure since that almost messed the town up in my last game that I played

no result would me i was blocked or locked up.

Yes, that is why I asked

hmmm this is odd so now i think jail keeper locked up the roleblocker.

It's a possibility, but why specifically this over the doctor saving you?

[Zyla]

im going count this game as a wash

VOTE: strange matter thats a hammer town lost.

Also. Cyrus, what the heck? You think that they're a PR and yet you hammer

2 days before deadline

rather than even

suggesting

someone else? That isn't pro-town behavior man.

wont rush lest we out the remaining pr.

And then you say "let's not rush the day"? Why the change?

Honestly I'm still not sure if I believe your PR claim, and this is why

[Zyla]

Oh btw,

@HC

are you able to answer now what made you choose me over strange?

[Zyla]

D1 voting went as follows. Each player's votes are listed in order, the number in parentheses being the post in which they voted

Unvotes omitted because I am lazy. Hope I got everything else.

Draw your own conclusions

Votes for d1:
Zyla: Hockey (71)

I kind of want to explain this, since it's been brought up a couple of times.
My main three scumreads were HC, Hockey, and Strange. The times that I was most likely to change my votes, HC and Strange were at E-2 or E-1, so I stuck with my vote that I had to try and keep the day going. I could've voted the other of the two, but I felt that that would draw away from the current conversations, hence sticking with hockey.

[Zyla]

yea I think this is good? At worst we get 1 extra confirmed town on top of cyrus and Luke(Im going under the principle that Luke is green checked(correct me if im wrong) and at best we get 4 green IF the doc saved someone either than cyrus(very unlikely)

I would just like to know why exactly you think Luke is confirmed town.

913

913 looks good for Luke but is not conclusive, unless I'm misunderstanding mechanics.

That is correct, yes. Assuming Cyrus isn't pulling a column C gambit, there are two possibilities for Cyrus telling the truth and Luke being scum. Luke is a mafia goon, and his partner did the action and the kill, or Luke preformed the NK and/or the action, but was Jailed.

[Zyla]

Honestly, going through his ISO just now, I get... nothing. No scum read, no town read, just nothing. Until his 55th post (766), he doesn't seem to point any fingers good or bad, just sort of wave in people's general direction.

To me, it seems quite possible that Fen's just sitting back and trying to figure out what the most neutral seeming reads would be (I did that my first game, I don't think it's a play I'll try again)

That said, 895 feels like a reasonable town explanation, I just don't like the fact that it comes so late in the day.

He's definitely leaning on the scummier side for me right now, I just haven't made up my mind on what extent.

[Zyla]

In regards to hockey, I don't agree with some of their logic, but I think it is coming from a town mindset at least. He's not locked in as town yet for sure, but I'm leaning towards it

r it rubs me the wrong w

Alright zyla 1 question, why was that specific question so important to solving peoples alignments? Like I saw it and yea i didnt think much of it because I didnt know that question was important for your Tr's/SR's

Missed that, sorry

It's less the question itself than people's interactions with it tbh. But I do think knowing whether or not someone like playing scum or town can potentially be helpful in reading them, as it helps you have some frame of reference to come from


Pedit: I split it into two posts and got called away in the middle of typing the second one, whoops

[Zyla]

I also specifically wanted to see how Strange would react to the case on you.

I think I can get behind that reasoning. Do you feel that you got anything worthwhile from them before the hammer?

[Zyla]

If it gets down to that point we'll probably know for sure if you're TT, so that point seems moot

[Zyla]

I'll make one tomorrow morning!

[Zyla]

Full Town Read:

Luke

Town Lead:

Azeru

HockeyFan

Null:

Pav

Scum Lean:

STD

HC

[Zyla]

... apparently that looks terrible in light mode (such as phones), sorry about that.


Just to note, I'll be away for the rest of the (IRL) day, see y'all later, and feel free to solve the game while I'm away

[Zyla]

Just did a light read while in the car heading home, I don't have time for an in depth read, but I will note this:
There is still a chance of Luke being town, if he were the target of the kill rather than the perpetrator. So I think it might be interesting to look at who might want Luke dead specifically
That said, voting Luke could be the way to go today, and I'll look over his ISO again tomorrow

[Zyla]

Guys. We just got major information, maybe we should process it for five seconds before an elim

[Zyla]

I think it's E1

[Zyla]

No they would not

[Zyla]

I'm gonna look back at ISOs to try and figure out who the two people to be pushed out should be, but first, a question that I've been planning on asking since it happened.

@STD: why did you hammer luke so early in the day? While Luke was pretty much confirmed scum at that point, 1138 did have a point to it. It would've been helpful to see everyone's reactions to 1075, and we were denied information because of it

[Zyla]

STD, I don't like the fact that you voted before HC had a chance to react to Azeru's post. However, the fact that Luke started the day voting you intrigues me, was he bussing you? Trying to make it look like he was? Assuming he was trying to be in a town mindset, do you think any of his posts towards you had legitimate scumpoints about you?

This could be a point for

or

against Hockey, but Luke has mentioned a good amount of times in this game the fact that scum are going to list their partner as a weak scum lean. As far as I can tell, Luke has been really consistent about having Hockey as one of his strongest town reads. This feels like WIFOM to me, if everyone believes that scum will put their partner in one spot, put it in the opposite.

As for HC, you were supposedly one of his top scum reads, and the only one of 'the big 3' that he voted for, but when Luke knows that he's done for and getting voted off, he doesn't say a word about you. Why so distant?

[Zyla]

Hey Hockey, I'm curious, if we had to vote between HC and STD, who would you say we should vote for today and why?

[Zyla]

STD, would you rather vote for Pav or Hockey, and why?

[Zyla]

Sorry about the leave of absence there, something came up and I wasn't mentally up for mafia (probably should've posted something)

I'll be honest, I kind of want to lock in my votes as Hockey and HC, although I may change my mind tomorrow (in-game)

[Zyla]

VOTE: Hockey
I believe this is E-1, do you have any last reasoning for why we should vote Pav, HC or STD tomorrow?

[Zyla]

I'm honestly still thinking HC for the vote. Does anyone have a reason for someone else?

[Zyla]

Forgot to mention temporary VLA

because of Pokemon Community day

, whoops

I should be back to being able to post normally, so I'm gonna go through the three ISOs again now

[Zyla]

Looking through Pav's ISO, here's the posts that stick out
83, Pavowski RVS votes Luke. NAI for the most part, but it's interesting when you note our last game together (with Luke) where the first thing that I do that gives Luke a clue that I'm scum was say that I'd RVS a scumbuddy

269, Pav reads Luke as null
803, Pav says Luke "has pinged me in a distinctly scummy way."
807, Pav says about Luke/Haschel "I'm not particularly scumreading either of them right now" (not that they were towny, just that they weren't scummy)
But then comes 1040 and 1048. Pav claims that Luke has seemed town all the way. I don't see this represented in his history. Also of note is the "first scummy thing" contridicting 803


914, Pav posts voting summary, he voted for Luke (RVS), Cyrus, and Strange
Which sets up the second part of Luke's 922, and the two of them vote together

[...]Lack of death doesn't necessarily indicate a doctor. (Although I would admit it seems overwhelmingly likely.)

This is intriguing, because it feels like reverse tmi, as if Pav knows the truth, but says the exact opposite is the most probable

[Zyla]

Gonna

Vote: HockeyFan

; he's the most likely partner for Lukewarm.

You know, I'm not sure you ever explained why I thought this

[Zyla]

Gonna

Vote: HockeyFan

; he's the most likely partner for Lukewarm.

You know, I'm not sure you ever explained why you thought this

Looking through STDs ISO, and honestly? Nothing really stands out, for the most part his progressions on reads seem to make total sense to me.
But then looking over it adding Luke in? I don't really see any meaningful interaction between them, there's almost nothing there. But after Luke is pretty much guaranteed to go down, he starts pushing harder for STD than anyone else. Is he distancing, or just trying to get us to miselim before voting him off?

[Zyla]

Eh, I'm gonna go with my gut

VOTE: Haschel Cedricson

[Zyla]

*Dang* I actually even noticed the worrying relationship with Luke and STD and still didn't get it xD

Good game all, and well played Scumteam!

[Zyla]

Ggs. Still think you all played into interactions too much.

See, you say this, but in the end, I put too

little

onto STD and Luke's interactions, which is why I voted HC