Newbie 2068 | Lofi Beats to Play Mafia To | Game Over

[GrandpaMo]

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

wow did u like forget about me

[GrandpaMo]

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

o nvm , u know like 4 ppl

but its okay i dont know u either

[GrandpaMo]

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

Nice to meet ya! I’m MiniMegabyte (inserts shaking hands emoji here cause the site doesn’t allow the actual emoji)

ik u...

VOTE: MiniMegabyte

[GrandpaMo]

CRASH

The skylight breaks open.

Down on a bungee cord, Cook comes sailing down in all her majesty. Into an earpiece, he responds to someone, "

See what I told you? It worked,

" before addressing the rest of the shocked patrons.

Okay, first of all, very rude initial vote on me. Second, VFP, you've played with me before, I was just running the game. Sorry about the misgame by the way. And the infrequent votecounts.

it was my first time, okay?

Now, to the rest of you. Hello, I'm

Cook

, and I play Mafia sometimes. Pronouns – basically all of them, haven't explored neopronouns. There's very little way to disrespect 'em. Look for what I use to refer to myself.

I recognize VFP, T3, and MiniMegabyte. Welcome, newcomers!

Cook searches her coat. "

I left my random vote in here somewhere... AHA! Wait, don't want to cast a vote for T3...

"

Furious scribbling occurs.

VOTE: Zyla

flailing scum

[GrandpaMo]

All,

I am so sorry I am so late to the thread - you've all given me so much to think about, so it has taken me a little while to gather my thoughts and process it all.

One advantage of waiting until there has been a bit of back and forth is that one can start to get a sense of how the game is going to go, and start to make some initial reads. Lots to unpack here, so I'll get straight to it.

First!

I don't like this post. Clearly, post 6 is not post 1, and lying to us straight out of the bad is not a good look. In fact, I propose that we should make it a sort of agreement between us that if any of us are caught lying - about anything - we should give strong consideration to eliminating said person as a result. In addition, the whole post - the content, the tone, the context in which it was posted just gives me a general sense of unease. It was a gut read initially, but I think it's clear I was considering

MiniMegabyte

as at least a slight leanscum here already. Hence far, I have to say the rest of the players are null reads, which considering how advanced the game state is we can start to stop chucking random votes around, this took me a surprise - I was about to say we have some very good mafia players here, but then it occurred to me that if you were truly that skilled you would have convinced me to give you at least a slight townread by now.

(inserts shaking hands emoji here)

Ahh, and here is it; the smoking gun that grants some confidence to that earlier gut read. I am aware of the existence of confirmation bias, so I have gone through all the contributions

MiniMegabyte

has made very carefully several times to try and guard against that, but no -

MiniMegabyte

is a strong scum read at this point. Let me explain.

MiniMegabyte

is clearly trying to insinuate that she has no personal knowledge of

VFP

, particularly as this comes of the back of

VFPs

explicit (and as it turned out - also false) statement that they don't know

anyone

in the game. Also of interest is the actual emoji chosen here - a handshake. Between two persons. To the exclusion of the rest of the group. See where I am going with this? She also specifically and pointedly says "Nice to meet

ya

!" instead of "nice to meet

you

". We all know English is one of those languages where 'you' can refer to a singular or an individual. Using it here would be natural, avoid the wavy red line most modern day browsers would assign to the word, and give her the benefit of the ambiguity if anyone paying attention catches it. Instead, we get the informal 'ya', standing in contrast to 'y'all', which to me is a further indication the introduction is addressed specifically to

VFP

and she wants us to know it.

The question now becomes why? In my view, the only explanation that makes any sort of sense is she wants us to think, even if only subconsciously, that this over the top, public performance is the first time these two have ever came in to contact, and they most definitely have

NOT

already said hi to each other in the scum thread. No sir, definitely not! Nothing to see here folks! Shake my hand and smile!

You might think that this makes

VFP

her scum partner then, and the game is solved. Putting aside my feelings towards how I would feel if my first ever game of Mafia was solved and ended on the first IRL day, I don't actually think this is the case. I think

MiniMegabyte

knew that someone might pick up on the vibes between the two here and our first thought would be that they are scum partners. But equally, perhaps that what they just want us to think? I wish there was some term to describe this, but I've checked the wiki inside out and can't find one, so I have invented one, both to refer to this situation and the approach I think we should take to try and come to some sort of conclusion as to how to deal with it. I call it Written Information Follows Overt Meta (WIFOM) - in other words, when what you see written down is in line with what would be expected from your experience you should assume that it is true. No sane scum player wants to associate themselves so strongly with their scum partner so obviously and early, so when we see it happening, we should assume that ISN'T what is happening, that makes no sense. Thus, this is all a big play, and we can actually rule out

VFP

as the other scum. As an aside, feel free to use that acronym in your future posts, but do try to remember who invented it and give credit every now and again.

There is the open question as to why

VFP

also lied about their association with other players, but I am going to assume for the moment that was a legitimate mistake - I know what I said about eliminating proven liars, but I don't think they would be so fast to walk it back. In contrast, I think

MiniMegabyte

fully expected that "First!" lie to slip under the radar.

So;

VFP

townread,

MiniMegabyte

scumread,b]

everyone else

[/b]null. I think it's pretty clear given that set of reads where my vote should go. I'm going to put my vote where it obviously belongs, and strongly feel that we should make them the elimination for the day. Obviously there is quite a bit of time left before deadline, and I would like to see some more discussion, but I will put my vote on them and see what happens with the rest of the votes. Being the first, I won't be able to hammer, but I want to make it clear that I would be prepared to hammer, and it will take a lot now to convince me to switch my vote.

With all that said: VOTE: T3

holy shit, another flailing scum, is mini + val the scum team?

[GrandpaMo]

I got to 328 and thats enough for me.

But I think Val can be locked town and Grampa locked scum.

ok vfp is def town lol

[GrandpaMo]

In post 13, Cook wrote:
CRASH

....

flailing scum

You know,

Cook

was the other person you call 'flailing scum' not more than one page ago. Do we collectively think scum would pay so little attention to the game they would forget who they were calling scum from one page to the next? I'm not so sure myself. Slight towncred for this. On the other hand, calling 3 people scum and not putting your vote on any of them seems scummy, so I guess it's still a nullread over all.

It will, however, be interesting to hear

alstroemeria

inject some thoughts on the implied case you make against them in this post, though - don't think I didn't see it. If you feel that way, you should come straight out and say it, in my opinion.

i don't know if you were serious at all, but I wasn't in any of the posts I made expect for the VFP townread so far. Let me go ahead and actually analyze. You are the type that is more alignment indicitivate when pressure occurs. So if town never pressures you, you are most likely to get away as scum!Val.

First; I do not not know why you are taking any of my reads serious lol as "flailing scum" that should have gave you the hint especially when I replied to your post and realized it was just a BS post to make it seem long, with no content providing and voting someone other than your scumread xD, hence why I just said flailing scum as a joke. So please do not townread me nor scumread me for this.

Second; You contradict yourself in the second statement where you say, "On the other hand, calling 3 people scum and not putting your vote on any of them seems scummy, so I guess it's still a nullread over all. " -- I don't know if this was suppose to be a reaction post, but this quote looks bad for you. It was a RVS vote. Calling 3 people scum (technically two, I don't where you got three from), then continue to say it could be more of "null read" it seems like you were trying to manipulate the context into making it how I could be scum for this lol.

Please elaborate more on that because I don't know if you are trying to like get a specific reaction or what -- but if you deep analyze this quote, you can see how it's bad and you should admit that.

[GrandpaMo]

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

Hm. As an SE, I find it surprising you'd open with this. Why not a random vote, or some questions to get the ball rolling?

That is such a weird thing to point out wtf. LOL

Spoiler:

CRASH

The skylight breaks open.

Down on a bungee cord, Cook comes sailing down in all her majesty. Into an earpiece, he responds to someone, "

See what I told you? It worked,

" before addressing the rest of the shocked patrons.

Okay, first of all, very rude initial vote on me. Second, VFP, you've played with me before, I was just running the game. Sorry about the misgame by the way. And the infrequent votecounts.

it was my first time, okay?

Now, to the rest of you. Hello, I'm

Cook

, and I play Mafia sometimes. Pronouns – basically all of them, haven't explored neopronouns. There's very little way to disrespect 'em. Look for what I use to refer to myself.

I recognize VFP, T3, and MiniMegabyte. Welcome, newcomers!

Cook searches her coat. "

I left my random vote in here somewhere... AHA! Wait, don't want to cast a vote for T3...

"

Furious scribbling occurs.

VOTE: Zyla

I was curious and looked through some of your threads, of the ones that I checked, this is the only one with this type of opening. What made the cook decide to spice up the meal today?

Unless T3 improved a lot from the last time we played, he doesn't look like scum based on his meta. That said, I'm not ruling him out entirely since meta does change over time, but we'll see!

I appreciate the sentiment but I sincerely doubt anyone can form an actual meta read on page 2.

True, but it's worth seeing your response

[GrandpaMo]

vc

DANG ALMOST HAD IT

[GrandpaMo]

What's weird about pointing out the no elim vote?

it seem like you were obliged just to follow up on it as being a scummy thing to do to no lim as an rvs

[GrandpaMo]

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying there

nvm its irrelavent anyways, just thought it was funny the way u pointed it out lmao

[GrandpaMo]

i don't know if you were serious at all

No, I wasn't.

and realized it was just a BS post to make it seem long, with no content providing and voting someone other than your scumread xD

Absolutely correct. It was a straight-forward RVS vote dressed up in the style of a serious wall post. You correctly identify the most obvious punchline there, but I dropped a few other things that should have made it clear it was entirely non-serious. I don't really claim to have invented the acronym 'WIFOM', to take another example. Of course, if it transpires that

MiniMegaByte

is scum, I reserve the right to imply I was in fact being serious and I knew from day one.

My post #27 was equally non-serious. Technically, reading you as null was serious, but the reasons equally BS. The clue there was the fact the that you HAD put your vote on one of the 3 - and Cook, MiniMegaByte and me are definitely 3, by the way - with the kicker being the reference to

alstroemeria

, whom was yet to be mentioned. I read you as null because I was reading everyone as null. There is nothing upto #27 I consider indicative either way.

Okay I guess we both misunderstood? LOL. I just thought my RVS didn't really count as a "joke" scumread or whatever you want to read it as and so I just assumed you would imply that the people I scumread (and not the person I voted!) was scum.

Who would've thought that at the beginning of the game people joke around

Indeed.

you can see how it's bad and you should admit that.

To be clear - I do nothing of the sort.

Okay this was also sort of a wifom post to see your reaction to how well you took pressure early game. You took it well, unless this how you play good as scum. But I will give you towncreds for now as this post was not expected (yes, I expected a manipulative scummy post for some reason lol) but you did well responding to my points.

[GrandpaMo]

RVS sucks

True, but it's one of two options I know of to get the ball rolling. If you don't like RVS, how would you prefer town getting conversation going?

This is very very ironic because a No Lim has caused this conversation to get started and maybe get a read on you and maybe see interactions with other people. This is why I pointed you out earlier.

I lied.

Yes, I lied to you, it wasn't just because I pointed it out to say "it was funny", I pointed it out because I knew this was going to happen, and you weren't going to realize it after questioning hence why I had to lie so I can drop it off. But since, it has escalated ever since, the only reason this conversation happened was because VFP did a no lim. It's really NAI, and it seems like you are trying to set him up as scum for it. Yes, maybe he could be scum however, this is something more of NAI in my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a regard. Many people no lim on day 1 and many people vote on day 1.

We will all be voting regardless by day 1, so there is no point to continue this conversation. I thought you would stop because you would find it unnecessary and NAI to keep going about a specific vote, specifically a no lim.

But you didn't.

So I will give you scumpings for this. I don't fully scumread you because you initiating this conversation could be towny of you but the way you are handling it could be scummy of you if you understand.

[GrandpaMo]

i don't know if you were serious at all

No, I wasn't.

and realized it was just a BS post to make it seem long, with no content providing and voting someone other than your scumread xD

Absolutely correct. It was a straight-forward RVS vote dressed up in the style of a serious wall post. You correctly identify the most obvious punchline there, but I dropped a few other things that should have made it clear it was entirely non-serious. I don't really claim to have invented the acronym 'WIFOM', to take another example. Of course, if it transpires that

MiniMegaByte

is scum, I reserve the right to imply I was in fact being serious and I knew from day one.

My post #27 was equally non-serious. Technically, reading you as null was serious, but the reasons equally BS. The clue there was the fact the that you HAD put your vote on one of the 3 - and Cook, MiniMegaByte and me are definitely 3, by the way - with the kicker being the reference to

alstroemeria

, whom was yet to be mentioned. I read you as null because I was reading everyone as null. There is nothing upto #27 I consider indicative either way.

Okay I guess we both misunderstood? LOL. I just thought my RVS didn't really count as a "joke" scumread or whatever you want to read it as and so I just assumed you would imply that the people I scumread (and not the person I voted!) was scum.

Who would've thought that at the beginning of the game people joke around

Indeed.

you can see how it's bad and you should admit that.

To be clear - I do nothing of the sort.

Okay this was also sort of a wifom post to see your reaction to how well you took pressure early game. You took it well, unless this how you play good as scum. But I will give you towncreds for now as this post was not expected (yes, I expected a manipulative scummy post for some reason lol) but you did well responding to my points.

How well he took pressure? He just said his stuff wasn't serious? That get's town cred?

Look at the full context please. Smh. The answer you are looking for should be within the conversation. I will give you a hint; the reason relates to a misunderstanding we BOTH had. (I am assuming)

[GrandpaMo]

I... I have no words

Hero solve {VFP, GrandpaMo}

bad reaction.

[GrandpaMo]

I... I have no words

Hero solve {VFP, GrandpaMo}

bad reaction.

Still much better than yours regarding Val89.

I explained to you with your question. And you didn't even bother to look/comment on that.

So you don't have a right to say that until you talk about what I said / or actually figure out the context!

[GrandpaMo]

Thanks for condensing everything a bit more, Zyla. I interpreted post 78 as a joke, kind of like someone who's never played chess saying they're undefeated in chess. To be honest, so far, the only post in VFP's ISO that I interpret as serious is 57, and I would be curious for more of their thoughts.

Also, I'm not going to quote it again, but here's my interpretation of GrandpaMo's post 87... I didn't totally follow the first sentence so it kind of starts from after that.
1) VFP's no-lim is NAI, so he thinks it is suspicious that you are scumreading them for it.
2) Everyone will eventually vote by the end of D1, including VFP, so stressing about the no-lim is pointless. So, he expected you to stop pushing the issue, but you didn't.
3) Pushing something that Mo thinks is NAI makes you suspicious a bit.

Now that I write it out like that it seems a little less compelling than it was in my head, to be honest, but that combined with the OMGUS still has you slightly on the red side for me. But I do agree that it's been confusing.

Yea, that's why I said bad reaction because it was a weird omgus. I don't fully scumread you but you are like the only one who I see that could be possible scum. Also I agree with T3 and I do think your introduction is actually towny.

You did hit all the parts right. That was the main reason but it's also the way she ended up going with the convo -- just seemed like a way for scum to, I don't know, maybe drive a possible condemn? See this is why I give them scumpings not a full scumread because they could defeinitly be town for initiating the scumread or this convo -- which is has to be found, a very towny thing to do. So if that is the case (which will need to be decided later) then yea there is a chance for her to flip town.

Also the confusing bits of my things -- I am working on that lol. I have been called confusing every game so far.

[GrandpaMo]

No, I don't think a no lim is actually better.
And Zyla is basically hard stuck town for keep pressuring it. Scum Zyla would have backed off by now.

yea see this is why zyla could be town lmao

but honestly, u wouldn't rlly know that info ? as zyla says they only have played 1 scum game? have they done that, in that specific game?

[GrandpaMo]

Alright, I'm going to try to condense the "No Lim" convo so far.

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

Here's the original post, they posted a vote for no lim. They could be posting it as a joke, they could seriously be not wanting an elimination day 1, this might be their way of getting the ball rolling. (If the last one, mad props my friend, as it certainly worked) I don't know why they posted it, which is why I pointed it out so I could figure out the purpose of it.

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

Hm. As [you are] an SE, I find it surprising you'd open with this. Why not a random vote, or some questions to get the ball rolling?

Zyla maybe town, I don't see anything scum motivated to point out the no lim and as an experienced player probably just isn't used to this.

I'll be honest, I completely missed this post the first time around. Unfortunately I'm not really sure what they mean with the part past '[nothing] scum motivated', so I don't have a response

I have never lost a game with a D1 no lim on here.

Here

is where it goes from "what's the meaning of your vote?" to scum reading.

That's quite interesting, considering I haven't even found a game of yours that had a D1 No Lim. I guess you're 0for0 instead of 7for7

Why are they saying that they never lost a game that they've never played? (And if I missed the one where it did, why are they treating 1 or 2 as a rule?)

RVS sucks

True, but it's one of two options I know of to get the ball rolling. If you don't like RVS, how would you prefer town getting conversation going?

This is very very ironic because a No Lim has caused this conversation to get started and maybe get a read on you and maybe see interactions with other people. This is why I pointed you out earlier.

I lied.

This part is true, and again, if this was VFP's point, props to them.

Yes, I lied to you, it wasn't just because I pointed it out to say "it was funny", I pointed it out because I knew this was going to happen, and you weren't going to realize it after questioning hence why I had to lie so I can drop it off. But since, it has escalated ever since, the only reason this conversation happened was because VFP did a no lim. It's really NAI, and it seems like you are trying to set him up as scum for it. Yes, maybe he could be scum however, this is something more of NAI in my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a regard. Many people no lim on day 1 and many people vote on day 1.

We will all be voting regardless by day 1, so there is no point to continue this conversation. I thought you would stop because you would find it unnecessary and NAI to keep going about a specific vote, specifically a no lim.

But you didn't.

So I will give you scumpings for this. I don't fully scumread you because you initiating this conversation could be towny of you but the way you are handling it could be scummy of you if you understand.

Then there's this. I'm not sure if I'm somehow not understanding a couple of sentences in there or something, but I don't follow the logic at all. Frankly, this post just confuses me , and I'm struggling to understand where his scum read is coming from.

i literally give u a tldr at the end

[GrandpaMo]

wait i think alstro is scum lol

[GrandpaMo]

nvm i think we vote james today and if they flip green, i think ur scum

[GrandpaMo]

Here's what I have for reads so far

Town

Town-lean

Alstro
James
T3

Null

Cook

Scum-lean

VFP
Grandpa

Scum

Not Enough Info:

MiniMeg
Val


VOTE: Grandpa

weird vote imo

[GrandpaMo]

TR VFP
SL James
SR GrandpaMo, Val89, MiniMegabyte

i forgot u were someone in this game

can u explain ur reads?

[GrandpaMo]

Yea, that's why I said bad reaction because it was a weird omgus. I don't fully scumread you but you are like the only one who I see that could be possible scum. Also I agree with T3 and I do think your introduction is actually towny.

Can you just confirm if I'm reading right that both of those "yous" are at me? I do agree that I look bad if James flips green, but can you explain a little more why I'm the only possible scum? Besides that you said my post with the most content so far was towny, I'm personally concerned at the number of people we just don't have a lot of information about at this point.

I think it can be very productive. I don't think there are many more efficient ways of getting reads day 1. You have no power role reads, no night kills, no eliminations. You can't use hindsight to justify applying pressure onto somebody either. However tunnelling somebody, especially one who you don't have a town read on, be it null or scum instead, applies more pressure than splitting your attention between multiple people, goes further than split attention pressure would apply, and in general makes the game easier to solve.

You have to dig for treasure, you have a shovel and it could only dig so much, what happens if you split the shovel between multiple holes, maybe you didn't dig deep enough to get the treasure, whereas if you dug as deep as you could on one hole, you'd know if the treasure was there or not. In this analogy shovel = time, treasure = solid read, multiple holes = people.

Also I should probably have clarified instead of making the post so short, it doesn't necessarily mean tunnelling for the entire remaining 8~ days, just for a period of the remaining 8~ days.

I think maybe we then just had different interpretations of "tunnelling." I was taking it to mean, roughly, "lock onto target with full confidence and push as hard as you can for as long as you can." With the treasure metaphor, I agree for the same reason that I think having a vote somewhere is more productive than not voting at all.


Question for

Zyla

regarding your Val read. Does your scum-lean on Grandpa make you think Val is more likely to be town, given all of the back and forth that they had? I ask partially because I have them as flipped. It doesn't read like scum v scum to me.

no im talking bout zyla here sorry nd yea u right. no comment yet. i would just like to redact that info rn, im looking at something rn

[GrandpaMo]

No! Not Grampa! >:|

Weren't you aware of GrandpaMo's once putting a horse's head in somebody's bed?

what?

[GrandpaMo]

Here's what I have for reads so far

Town

Town-lean

Alstro
James
T3

Null

Cook

Scum-lean

VFP
Grandpa

Scum

Not Enough Info:

MiniMeg
Val


VOTE: Grandpa

also sad how u and james dont wanna interact wit me right after just replying to u lmfao wit yall answers

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: VFP I don't like the fact that you seem to have chosen no-elims on D1 to be a hill you're willing to die on, nor the fact that you implied that you've won multiple games with a D1 no-elim when I can't find any examples

wait what?

why the pivot?

[GrandpaMo]

i don't know if you were serious at all

No, I wasn't.

and realized it was just a BS post to make it seem long, with no content providing and voting someone other than your scumread xD

Absolutely correct. It was a straight-forward RVS vote dressed up in the style of a serious wall post. You correctly identify the most obvious punchline there, but I dropped a few other things that should have made it clear it was entirely non-serious. I don't really claim to have invented the acronym 'WIFOM', to take another example. Of course, if it transpires that

MiniMegaByte

is scum, I reserve the right to imply I was in fact being serious and I knew from day one.

My post #27 was equally non-serious. Technically, reading you as null was serious, but the reasons equally BS. The clue there was the fact the that you HAD put your vote on one of the 3 - and Cook, MiniMegaByte and me are definitely 3, by the way - with the kicker being the reference to

alstroemeria

, whom was yet to be mentioned. I read you as null because I was reading everyone as null. There is nothing upto #27 I consider indicative either way.

Okay I guess we both misunderstood? LOL. I just thought my RVS didn't really count as a "joke" scumread or whatever you want to read it as and so I just assumed you would imply that the people I scumread (and not the person I voted!) was scum.

Who would've thought that at the beginning of the game people joke around

Indeed.

you can see how it's bad and you should admit that.

To be clear - I do nothing of the sort.

Okay this was also sort of a wifom post to see your reaction to how well you took pressure early game. You took it well, unless this how you play good as scum. But I will give you towncreds for now as this post was not expected (yes, I expected a manipulative scummy post for some reason lol) but you did well responding to my points.

How well he took pressure? He just said his stuff wasn't serious? That get's town cred?

i don't know if you were serious at all

No, I wasn't.

and realized it was just a BS post to make it seem long, with no content providing and voting someone other than your scumread xD

Absolutely correct. It was a straight-forward RVS vote dressed up in the style of a serious wall post. You correctly identify the most obvious punchline there, but I dropped a few other things that should have made it clear it was entirely non-serious. I don't really claim to have invented the acronym 'WIFOM', to take another example. Of course, if it transpires that

MiniMegaByte

is scum, I reserve the right to imply I was in fact being serious and I knew from day one.

My post #27 was equally non-serious. Technically, reading you as null was serious, but the reasons equally BS. The clue there was the fact the that you HAD put your vote on one of the 3 - and Cook, MiniMegaByte and me are definitely 3, by the way - with the kicker being the reference to

alstroemeria

, whom was yet to be mentioned. I read you as null because I was reading everyone as null. There is nothing upto #27 I consider indicative either way.

Okay I guess we both misunderstood? LOL. I just thought my RVS didn't really count as a "joke" scumread or whatever you want to read it as and so I just assumed you would imply that the people I scumread (and not the person I voted!) was scum.

Who would've thought that at the beginning of the game people joke around

Indeed.

you can see how it's bad and you should admit that.

To be clear - I do nothing of the sort.

Okay this was also sort of a wifom post to see your reaction to how well you took pressure early game. You took it well, unless this how you play good as scum. But I will give you towncreds for now as this post was not expected (yes, I expected a manipulative scummy post for some reason lol) but you did well responding to my points.

How well he took pressure? He just said his stuff wasn't serious? That get's town cred?

Look at the full context please. Smh. The answer you are looking for should be within the conversation. I will give you a hint; the reason relates to a misunderstanding we BOTH had. (I am assuming)

Alright, I'm going to try to condense the "No Lim" convo so far.

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

Here's the original post, they posted a vote for no lim. They could be posting it as a joke, they could seriously be not wanting an elimination day 1, this might be their way of getting the ball rolling. (If the last one, mad props my friend, as it certainly worked) I don't know why they posted it, which is why I pointed it out so I could figure out the purpose of it.

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

Hm. As [you are] an SE, I find it surprising you'd open with this. Why not a random vote, or some questions to get the ball rolling?

Zyla maybe town, I don't see anything scum motivated to point out the no lim and as an experienced player probably just isn't used to this.

I'll be honest, I completely missed this post the first time around. Unfortunately I'm not really sure what they mean with the part past '[nothing] scum motivated', so I don't have a response

I have never lost a game with a D1 no lim on here.

Here

is where it goes from "what's the meaning of your vote?" to scum reading.

That's quite interesting, considering I haven't even found a game of yours that had a D1 No Lim. I guess you're 0for0 instead of 7for7

Why are they saying that they never lost a game that they've never played? (And if I missed the one where it did, why are they treating 1 or 2 as a rule?)

RVS sucks

True, but it's one of two options I know of to get the ball rolling. If you don't like RVS, how would you prefer town getting conversation going?

This is very very ironic because a No Lim has caused this conversation to get started and maybe get a read on you and maybe see interactions with other people. This is why I pointed you out earlier.

I lied.

This part is true, and again, if this was VFP's point, props to them.

Yes, I lied to you, it wasn't just because I pointed it out to say "it was funny", I pointed it out because I knew this was going to happen, and you weren't going to realize it after questioning hence why I had to lie so I can drop it off. But since, it has escalated ever since, the only reason this conversation happened was because VFP did a no lim. It's really NAI, and it seems like you are trying to set him up as scum for it. Yes, maybe he could be scum however, this is something more of NAI in my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a regard. Many people no lim on day 1 and many people vote on day 1.

We will all be voting regardless by day 1, so there is no point to continue this conversation. I thought you would stop because you would find it unnecessary and NAI to keep going about a specific vote, specifically a no lim.

But you didn't.

So I will give you scumpings for this. I don't fully scumread you because you initiating this conversation could be towny of you but the way you are handling it could be scummy of you if you understand.

Then there's this. I'm not sure if I'm somehow not understanding a couple of sentences in there or something, but I don't follow the logic at all. Frankly, this post just confuses me , and I'm struggling to understand where his scum read is coming from.

Alright, I'm going to try to condense the "No Lim" convo so far.

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

Here's the original post, they posted a vote for no lim. They could be posting it as a joke, they could seriously be not wanting an elimination day 1, this might be their way of getting the ball rolling. (If the last one, mad props my friend, as it certainly worked) I don't know why they posted it, which is why I pointed it out so I could figure out the purpose of it.

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

Hm. As [you are] an SE, I find it surprising you'd open with this. Why not a random vote, or some questions to get the ball rolling?

Zyla maybe town, I don't see anything scum motivated to point out the no lim and as an experienced player probably just isn't used to this.

I'll be honest, I completely missed this post the first time around. Unfortunately I'm not really sure what they mean with the part past '[nothing] scum motivated', so I don't have a response

I have never lost a game with a D1 no lim on here.

Here

is where it goes from "what's the meaning of your vote?" to scum reading.

That's quite interesting, considering I haven't even found a game of yours that had a D1 No Lim. I guess you're 0for0 instead of 7for7

Why are they saying that they never lost a game that they've never played? (And if I missed the one where it did, why are they treating 1 or 2 as a rule?)

RVS sucks

True, but it's one of two options I know of to get the ball rolling. If you don't like RVS, how would you prefer town getting conversation going?

This is very very ironic because a No Lim has caused this conversation to get started and maybe get a read on you and maybe see interactions with other people. This is why I pointed you out earlier.

I lied.

This part is true, and again, if this was VFP's point, props to them.

Yes, I lied to you, it wasn't just because I pointed it out to say "it was funny", I pointed it out because I knew this was going to happen, and you weren't going to realize it after questioning hence why I had to lie so I can drop it off. But since, it has escalated ever since, the only reason this conversation happened was because VFP did a no lim. It's really NAI, and it seems like you are trying to set him up as scum for it. Yes, maybe he could be scum however, this is something more of NAI in my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a regard. Many people no lim on day 1 and many people vote on day 1.

We will all be voting regardless by day 1, so there is no point to continue this conversation. I thought you would stop because you would find it unnecessary and NAI to keep going about a specific vote, specifically a no lim.

But you didn't.

So I will give you scumpings for this. I don't fully scumread you because you initiating this conversation could be towny of you but the way you are handling it could be scummy of you if you understand.

Then there's this. I'm not sure if I'm somehow not understanding a couple of sentences in there or something, but I don't follow the logic at all. Frankly, this post just confuses me , and I'm struggling to understand where his scum read is coming from.

i literally give u a tldr at the end

like look at these intearctions -- and the post after it, zyla goes into reads and james goes into another thing completely deflects on what i said (or ignores)

[GrandpaMo]

vfp is zyla misguided town lol

[GrandpaMo]

is the solve this easy like i really want it to be this obvious ass pair but i think its probably 50 percent wrong

[GrandpaMo]

"no comment yet"

This isn't town sided.
Combined with 139
The unnecessary tone in 88 and 99
I'm not stubborn enough.

UNVOTE: Val89
VOTE: GrandpaMo

this is a really weird pivot xD

this should make me town LMAO

VFP townreading me, cook scumreading me, Zyla scumreading VFP + Grandpa then pivoting onto me then as soon Zyla pivots, you pivot LMAO.

I think scum lies between u and Zyla could be both.

dw i will anaylyze every maniupulative post that u have misunderstood (half i believe)

[GrandpaMo]

Yea, that's why I said bad reaction because it was a weird omgus. I don't fully scumread you but you are like the only one who I see that could be possible scum. Also I agree with T3 and I do think your introduction is actually towny.

Can you just confirm if I'm reading right that both of those "yous" are at me? I do agree that I look bad if James flips green, but can you explain a little more why I'm the only possible scum? Besides that you said my post with the most content so far was towny, I'm personally concerned at the number of people we just don't have a lot of information about at this point.

I think it can be very productive. I don't think there are many more efficient ways of getting reads day 1. You have no power role reads, no night kills, no eliminations. You can't use hindsight to justify applying pressure onto somebody either. However tunnelling somebody, especially one who you don't have a town read on, be it null or scum instead, applies more pressure than splitting your attention between multiple people, goes further than split attention pressure would apply, and in general makes the game easier to solve.

You have to dig for treasure, you have a shovel and it could only dig so much, what happens if you split the shovel between multiple holes, maybe you didn't dig deep enough to get the treasure, whereas if you dug as deep as you could on one hole, you'd know if the treasure was there or not. In this analogy shovel = time, treasure = solid read, multiple holes = people.

Also I should probably have clarified instead of making the post so short, it doesn't necessarily mean tunnelling for the entire remaining 8~ days, just for a period of the remaining 8~ days.

I think maybe we then just had different interpretations of "tunnelling." I was taking it to mean, roughly, "lock onto target with full confidence and push as hard as you can for as long as you can." With the treasure metaphor, I agree for the same reason that I think having a vote somewhere is more productive than not voting at all.


Question for

Zyla

regarding your Val read. Does your scum-lean on Grandpa make you think Val is more likely to be town, given all of the back and forth that they had? I ask partially because I have them as flipped. It doesn't read like scum v scum to me.

no im talking bout zyla here sorry nd yea u right. no comment yet. i would just like to redact that info rn, im looking at something rn

"no comment yet"

Yes I am looking at a specific interaction happening. If I spoil the interaction and it happens to be scum -- Scum know how to coordinate now with each other against me hence why I redacted. This shouldn't be alignment indicative only usually towards EoD or even towards the end of the game where you are trying to garner more specific info.

[GrandpaMo]

"no comment yet"

This isn't town sided.
Combined with 139
The unnecessary tone in 88 and 99
I'm not stubborn enough.

UNVOTE: Val89
VOTE: GrandpaMo

Also something really funny to point out is that you said you would never move off ur vote off Val but you just did and contradicted yourself in post 85.

[GrandpaMo]

i don't know if you were serious at all

No, I wasn't.

and realized it was just a BS post to make it seem long, with no content providing and voting someone other than your scumread xD

Absolutely correct. It was a straight-forward RVS vote dressed up in the style of a serious wall post. You correctly identify the most obvious punchline there, but I dropped a few other things that should have made it clear it was entirely non-serious. I don't really claim to have invented the acronym 'WIFOM', to take another example. Of course, if it transpires that

MiniMegaByte

is scum, I reserve the right to imply I was in fact being serious and I knew from day one.

My post #27 was equally non-serious. Technically, reading you as null was serious, but the reasons equally BS. The clue there was the fact the that you HAD put your vote on one of the 3 - and Cook, MiniMegaByte and me are definitely 3, by the way - with the kicker being the reference to

alstroemeria

, whom was yet to be mentioned. I read you as null because I was reading everyone as null. There is nothing upto #27 I consider indicative either way.

Okay I guess we both misunderstood? LOL. I just thought my RVS didn't really count as a "joke" scumread or whatever you want to read it as and so I just assumed you would imply that the people I scumread (and not the person I voted!) was scum.

Who would've thought that at the beginning of the game people joke around

Indeed.

you can see how it's bad and you should admit that.

To be clear - I do nothing of the sort.

Okay this was also sort of a wifom post to see your reaction to how well you took pressure early game. You took it well, unless this how you play good as scum. But I will give you towncreds for now as this post was not expected (yes, I expected a manipulative scummy post for some reason lol) but you did well responding to my points.

I'm going to apologise for not being able to mind read, there was no mention of any other posts here from you. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Was it clear you were relating to anything other than just Post 63? No it was not.

Let's pretend it was telling us to look into context and other posts between 49 and 83.
Post: 65 has no relation to 49
Post: 72 has no relation to 49
Post: 76 has no relation to 49

The only post relating was of course number 63.
His first quote isn't either of your 2 points and he responds by saying he wasn't serious.
His second quote was him confirming that it was a BS non-serious post.
Let's say the whole misunderstanding thing you claim is true, for the sake of your argument holding:

This means he gets town cred either for not having serious posts early, or for having agreed with you on some misunderstanding.
Get back to me on how either are valid before coming at me with the same thing over and over again which holds no value. Thank you.

This is a really bad quote holy fuck. The context was actually in post 15 where I made a joking remark towards Val's misleading wallpost then Val makes remarks on my remark on how they may have took it serious. Then in post 49, I explain everything and on how we both misunderstood. Then, in post 63 Val responds to me and reassures. He even lists the post number (27) in that post. It just seems like you didn't even bother reading anything.

2nd Argument -- That whole interaction wasn't about getting townread or scumread, it was more for elaboration, to get closure on each other that may help solve each other's alignment and maybe others. I was just saying the way you pointed it out and decided to ignore me, just finds you in a bad spot where you wanted to head out for a manipulative scumcase on me which failed but you found the opportunity to vote me now since you saw Zyla pivot.

[GrandpaMo]

"no comment yet"

This isn't town sided.
Combined with 139
The unnecessary tone in 88 and 99
I'm not stubborn enough.

UNVOTE: Val89
VOTE: GrandpaMo

this is a really weird pivot xD

this should make me town LMAO

VFP townreading me, cook scumreading me, Zyla scumreading VFP + Grandpa then pivoting onto me then as soon Zyla pivots, you pivot LMAO.

I think scum lies between u and Zyla could be both.

dw i will anaylyze every maniupulative post that u have misunderstood (half i believe)

You're attempting to pocket Val89, with non-sensical justifications for town cred.
Not to mention there are different reasons for me and Zyla scumreading you. It's also weird you referred to yourself in the third person.
Also it doesn't make you town.

Pocket Val?? Wtf? You should see me trying to pocket VFP LOL. At the most that is who I would be pocketing if I were scum LOL. But Val someone who is in my null read? "It's also weird you referred to yourself in the third person.
Also it doesn't make you town." Again what is this? I literally do this shit in all my games LOL. Just read my meta at this point because it feels like you are trying to find every reason to scumread me for.

[GrandpaMo]

"no comment yet"

This isn't town sided.
Combined with 139
The unnecessary tone in 88 and 99
I'm not stubborn enough.

UNVOTE: Val89
VOTE: GrandpaMo

Also something really funny to point out is that you said you would never move off ur vote off Val but you just did and contradicted yourself in post 85.

Funny, I don't remember saying never or ever or anything like that. You going to bend words the entirety of this game?

This is literally in post 85 where you said "I'm not moving my vote."

???

[GrandpaMo]

Yea, that's why I said bad reaction because it was a weird omgus. I don't fully scumread you but you are like the only one who I see that could be possible scum. Also I agree with T3 and I do think your introduction is actually towny.

Can you just confirm if I'm reading right that both of those "yous" are at me? I do agree that I look bad if James flips green, but can you explain a little more why I'm the only possible scum? Besides that you said my post with the most content so far was towny, I'm personally concerned at the number of people we just don't have a lot of information about at this point.

I think it can be very productive. I don't think there are many more efficient ways of getting reads day 1. You have no power role reads, no night kills, no eliminations. You can't use hindsight to justify applying pressure onto somebody either. However tunnelling somebody, especially one who you don't have a town read on, be it null or scum instead, applies more pressure than splitting your attention between multiple people, goes further than split attention pressure would apply, and in general makes the game easier to solve.

You have to dig for treasure, you have a shovel and it could only dig so much, what happens if you split the shovel between multiple holes, maybe you didn't dig deep enough to get the treasure, whereas if you dug as deep as you could on one hole, you'd know if the treasure was there or not. In this analogy shovel = time, treasure = solid read, multiple holes = people.

Also I should probably have clarified instead of making the post so short, it doesn't necessarily mean tunnelling for the entire remaining 8~ days, just for a period of the remaining 8~ days.

I think maybe we then just had different interpretations of "tunnelling." I was taking it to mean, roughly, "lock onto target with full confidence and push as hard as you can for as long as you can." With the treasure metaphor, I agree for the same reason that I think having a vote somewhere is more productive than not voting at all.


Question for

Zyla

regarding your Val read. Does your scum-lean on Grandpa make you think Val is more likely to be town, given all of the back and forth that they had? I ask partially because I have them as flipped. It doesn't read like scum v scum to me.

no im talking bout zyla here sorry nd yea u right. no comment yet. i would just like to redact that info rn, im looking at something rn

"no comment yet"

Yes I am looking at a specific interaction happening. If I spoil the interaction and it happens to be scum -- Scum know how to coordinate now with each other against me hence why I redacted. This shouldn't be alignment indicative only usually towards EoD or even towards the end of the game where you are trying to garner more specific info.

Unfortunately, redactions aren't particularly something you can do in this game, so I implore you to explain. I'm assuming right now you have some form of scum proof against Zyla. If so, why wait?

This is just something for you to fall back on when you have a bogus claim in the future. If you're not scum trying to place what you think is an easy elimination onto Zyla, then what is it you're hiding? As town you should have something right?

I'm calling the bluff, you have nothing here.

I did it my first newbie game. And I will do it again. Redactions are an amazing utility tool to draw away any distractions -- It only works on the proper time though.

It should be obvious. I already slipped it once while talking to you. It's the interaction right now. Between you + Zyla (Mostly), VFP + T3, Cook + Astro

[GrandpaMo]

"no comment yet"

This isn't town sided.
Combined with 139
The unnecessary tone in 88 and 99
I'm not stubborn enough.

UNVOTE: Val89
VOTE: GrandpaMo

this is a really weird pivot xD

this should make me town LMAO

VFP townreading me, cook scumreading me, Zyla scumreading VFP + Grandpa then pivoting onto me then as soon Zyla pivots, you pivot LMAO.

I think scum lies between u and Zyla could be both.

dw i will anaylyze every maniupulative post that u have misunderstood (half i believe)

You're attempting to pocket Val89, with non-sensical justifications for town cred.
Not to mention there are different reasons for me and Zyla scumreading you. It's also weird you referred to yourself in the third person.
Also it doesn't make you town.

Pocket Val?? Wtf? You should see me trying to pocket VFP LOL. At the most that is who I would be pocketing if I were scum LOL. But Val someone who is in my null read? "It's also weird you referred to yourself in the third person.
Also it doesn't make you town." Again what is this? I literally do this shit in all my games LOL. Just read my meta at this point because it feels like you are trying to find every reason to scumread me for.

Meta isn't a valid reason to read anybody any direction.

?? Why are trying to say that is a bad thing? Well now to let you know since obviously you aren't going to utilize that function. I have done that. don't scumread me for it if you aren't going to the time to actually cooperate. I disagree with your statement and I think you can garner a lot of info regardless of it being AI.

[GrandpaMo]

Quote walls have started.
What makes you think withholding a read you have or an idea is town sided?

What makes it scumsided? I mean yes, you can bring up the point that it is anti-town to redact info from town. But knowing me, and my experience and my meta on how I play; it would bring that question up as "Why would I do that as scum".

I am town -- And withholding info that would seem beneficiary to scum would only make my logic and perhaps alstro's (using this as an example for other possible town) logic fail as well because I feel like me and him have this intuitive thought that you or zyla could be scum.

2nd; It wasn't an idea nor a read -- It was more of a thought that wouldn't have benefitted town nor disadvantaged town. It was something that was in my head and was going to further analyze it after more interactions happen. I literally said that. I literally said I was going to fully analyze that post but now the interactions that came from me has been spoiled and town may conform and scum may cisconform to create havoc.

[GrandpaMo]

"no comment yet"

This isn't town sided.
Combined with 139
The unnecessary tone in 88 and 99
I'm not stubborn enough.

UNVOTE: Val89
VOTE: GrandpaMo

Also something really funny to point out is that you said you would never move off ur vote off Val but you just did and contradicted yourself in post 85.

Funny, I don't remember saying never or ever or anything like that. You going to bend words the entirety of this game?

This is literally in post 85 where you said "I'm not moving my vote."

???

What part of 85 do I say I will never move my vote?
Or is it the case (it very obviously is) that it means at that point in time?
You have nothing, stop bending words.

I don't know if that is what you originally meant? But it is quoted in the text, and what other meaning there is other than implying it as should, "I am not moving my vote" -- Which should signal to a normal person that that means they won't pivot off the vote for a long time. I see what you mean though but like I said, from my perspective there was no other implication other than that. You are just now tryning to use that misunderstanding from MY side and scumcase it on me. Blatant read; more of basic in my opinion. You knew it was probably a misunderstanding and you didn't mind to correct me possibly. Or maybe you didn't; then what you said, still stands. Heck, you even pointed it out multiple times in the thread that you were implying to not move your vote. And val had to respond to that.

[GrandpaMo]

James. I will like to lay back off you for now since I have successfully answered everything you may have + giving more insight into your reasonings, and debunking some of your flaws / possible manipulation. (I say possible because if you were scum this would be you manipulating context, I mean shit, I already debunked your context thing, and you just decided to deflect that with another thing based on meta? Idek, it looks you tried lol) But if you aren't scum, then these would be flaws.

This usually happens in a newbie game where a TvT occurs and it becomes aggressive -- but once you lay off, you get to see more interactions happening.

Hm. I want to explore this for now.

VOTE: Cook

[GrandpaMo]

Also, I very much dislike how James just left this conversation. This looks bad for you, James.

[GrandpaMo]

I think cook is the only one that should be reasonably scumreading me as possible town.

This is because cook was the only one to garner a read thru prior context of my info etc while both Zyla + James, got it from pivot changes? I don't even know why the pivot had happened but that pivot results in one scum being in between them. I don't know who at this point -- hence why they are strong null reads, leaning scum. They both play the same way. Nyla, if you are town, then I probably would just talk to you about something you do in post game. James as well, you are both newbs, and you play well. James!scum wouldn't surprise me.

Only people I have payed attention to was T3, VFP, Zyla, and Alstro. (Then recently James). I would probably need to reread the game.

[GrandpaMo]

A) That's fine, we're different players, we look for different things, the important thing isn't that we read people the same, but that we work together

I'm not expecting for our reads to match, and I don't scum read anyone purely for having different reads. I read VFP as leantown, and VFP reads you town, for example. I see VFPs explanation for it - that he considers a scum!Zyla would continue to prosecute the "no-lim" vote further than you did - and while I disagree with it, it seems a reasonable case for Town!VFP to make.

I'm having trouble reconciling the fact that you're saying you wouldn't scum read for differing reads with the fact that that seems to be what your original post was saying in that section, but maybe I misunderstood something there

On the other had, we have the exact opposite read on {T3, James, VFP and Grandpa}, and a different read on Cook, too - over fully half the field, and the essential difference is I can't game out the justifications you might have because you haven't shared them. I am aware the same applies to some of the other players also, and that's on my radar also.

I thought I had shared my reasons for most people:
T3 | 167 (B),
James | gut read,
VFP | 135,
Grandpa | 103

I had a gut feeling that he was town based on what I've seen of him before, in a game that we played and meta I read for that game (as that's what got him), it wasn't much to go off of, but I was curious to how he'd respond if I acted like it was clear cut evidence. I liked his response, which is where the actual town-lean comes from

I'm reading your ISOs side by side, and I don't see it. Which post of his gave that feeling; which post of yours is the one where you act like its clear cut evidence, and which post does he give the response you like?
This seems, on the surface, to be a reasonable explanation, so if you gave give me those links, I may well find some measure of ease there.

Like I said, it was originally a gut feeling, my reaction test was 37, and T3's reaction was 42

"Null" means "I see equal ways to read this person as town that I do to read them as scum", whereas "Not enough info" means "I don't have enough info to declare a read yet"

Fair enough. I can see that. What are your reasons for reading scum!Cook, and what are those for town!Cook?

Actually, rereading Cook's ISO, I can't remember which posts gave me any vibes at all, NEI may have been a better spot for them

Not to mention there are different reasons for me and Zyla scumreading you.

Can someone just take a moment to look at the combined ISO for James and Zyla and identify where Zyla gives her reasons for voting Grandpa prior to James' #145?

I can't find it, and it's worrying me.

Hm. I hadn't noticed that yet, I'm still leaning town on James, but I'll be watching for sure

what?? what quote is this????

[GrandpaMo]

Some shorter thoughts now, just as reactions to what's happened while I was gone, with more new content later today...

1) It feels like a jerk move to be like "confusing posts are scummy" when it could just be GrandpaMo having trouble with clarity but the amount of effort spent on decoding posts is a bit of a drain on town's time, if that makes sense. In my more detailed dive today I'm going to be looking at GrandpaMo in more detail. Post 143 really bugged me as misleading, even though I do SR James as well for now. That's the other thing that is troubling me -- the amount of visceral hostility between these two doesn't seem like SvS but I have been SR-ing James and questioning Grandpa now. Also this is NAI, but some of GrandpaMo's posts read as just mean. I know we have to be forceful in our arguments but...

2) I just wanted to clarify the below because upon reading I see that it wasn't explained well.

Alstroemerial has me and Grandpa as both TRs at present, so the later assertion they think we are flipped (I think that means of opposite alignments?) adds an interesting dimension.[/spoiler]

My thoughts here were a bit tangled yesterday and it shows... What I had been trying to say is that both Val and Grandpa seemed towny but that if one flipped green it makes the odds of the other being red more likely, and at the time my read on Grandpa was a bit more positive than my read on Val. (Caveat that now I am not so sure anymore, see point #1). It could also be TvT of course, but just thinking in terms of relative odds.

3) Regarding the quote walls, if people are having a conversation that lasts over several posts, instead of quoting the whole conversation each time, could we maybe just quote the few most recent posts? Some of these are a bit unwieldy. On a similar topic, if I'm posting with a lot of different thoughts (like this post, for example), is it easier to read if I break it up into multiple posts or just do it like this? Let me know and I can change my approach.

4) I am absolutely not following the T3 trust tell legality conversation stemming from post 74. If it's really important can someone give a quick paraphrase or give me a hint of what to search on the wiki?

5)

And withholding info that would seem beneficiary to scum would only make my logic and perhaps alstro's (using this as an example for other possible town) logic fail as well because I feel like me and him have this intuitive thought that you or zyla could be scum.

them*

Sorry, I hadn't checked ur pronouns!

6) I feel like I need to make one of those boards with everyone's avatars (or a piece of paper that says "T3") with colored strings connecting them...

[GrandpaMo]

Also, I very much dislike how James just left this conversation. This looks bad for you, James.

Hold up. Wait a minute. You're giving me scum points, For Sleeping? How desperate are you?

LOL I LOVE HOW U RESPOND THIS AND CALL ME OUT FOR THIS! But you being contradicting; by not even ending up responding with it.

[GrandpaMo]

wait i think alstro is scum lol

nvm i think we vote james today and if they flip green, i think ur scum

wtf
doublewtf
VOTE: Grandpa

lol ok i guess i have to explain why i thought alstro was scum so randomly lmfao

i thought it was obvious. i dont really scumread them, they will probably be in my townreads just because i cant read 3 ppl and the 2 ppl are acting scummy.

and so far you + val have done like the most contributions

[GrandpaMo]

i was just reading alstro thru the interactions wit james hence why i said james flips scum >>> alstro most likely town. james flips town >>> alstro most likely scum.

i dont see why you points this out @t3 and said "wtf' like you were suprised?

I have done this multiple times as town in games I have played with you?

[GrandpaMo]

the vote looks weird -- hm t3 could be scum just because they are tryna find a reason. but them not providing a reason could be town. idrk honestly.

t3 can u explain? because u never vote me early

[GrandpaMo]

also whoever else is town? like no one has actually analyzed the me vs james conversation -- and haven't seen anyone point it out; other than small tid bits. because if you actually analyze it from a townmindset you can see how james is possible scum.

[GrandpaMo]

Also, I very much dislike how James just left this conversation. This looks bad for you, James.

Hold up. Wait a minute. You're giving me scum points, For Sleeping? How desperate are you?

LOL I LOVE HOW U RESPOND THIS AND CALL ME OUT FOR THIS! But you being contradicting; by not even ending up responding with it.

Can you please consider being a little nicer...? I still TR you and SR James but you make it very hard for me to be happy about it. Like, yes, people sleep? There's no need to get derisive when someone doesn't respond in the middle of the night.

On that note, I guess I'll specify that I'll be going offline to sleep within the next hour or so, maybe a post or two still today if something happens.

I haven't insulted or directly said anything that was mean? I was talking about the game. Look James comes back I am assuming and says they went to sleep, that is understandable. But once they come back; including right now! and the previous night, they still have yet to respond to anything I have said.

They just left me on a position where I had to assume they didn't sleep since they never told me. And yes, after they told me, I was like fair. But then they disappear again, and never follow up anything in our interaction. Then James responds in another quote about ME and val but however still never does respond to anything nor interact with me.

[GrandpaMo]

Not to mention there are different reasons for me and Zyla scumreading you.

Can someone just take a moment to look at the combined ISO for James and Zyla and identify where Zyla gives her reasons for voting Grandpa prior to James' #145?

I can't find it, and it's worrying me.

Here's my attempt at tackling this...

86 is the first post where either mentions Grandpa, and it's James questioning Grandpa's logic toward Val. Then, in 89 (less than 30 min later), Zyla includes Grandpa in a hero solve. In 90, Grandpa says that Zyla's 89 is a bad reaction, and James fires back in 91 that it is "better than" what Grandpa did. (Interesting!)

Grandpa doesn't come up really in the combined ISO again until 118, where Zyla SRs Grandpa and votes without giving a reason. Then there's some James stuff, and then we hit post 145.

So, in short, I couldn't find the reasons either. I think the interaction in the 86-91 is an interesting find that could show James sticking up for Zyla, but it also fits in with the fact that James was already angling towards Grandpa a bit -- i.e. it wasn't out of the blue.

Now, using the powerpoint charts I made with everyone's avatars connected by red and green lines (this took WAY too long), it looks like James and Zyla both had "mutual SRs" with Grandpa as of post 117, and between there and post 180, Zyla gave James a TR. I don't have a read from James on Zyla in my chart, but there is this...

I'm assuming right now you have some form of scum proof against Zyla. If so, why wait?

This is just something for you to fall back on when you have a bogus claim in the future. If you're not scum trying to place what you think is an easy elimination onto Zyla, then what is it you're hiding? As town you should have something right?

I'm calling the bluff, you have nothing here.

The above implies that James' attitude towards Zyla is generally leaning green, if he thinks that there is nothing for Grandpa to have.

One more note on this topic -- like I said, I've been thinking about GrandpaMo, and though I disagree with some of his approaches and ideas, I don't know if scum, especially newbie scum, would be so vocal and out there on Day One. Wouldn't it make more sense to try to fly under the radar than get in fights with everyone?

I do have a question for GrandpaMo, which is, do you TR anyone besides VFP? I couldn't find anyone else from you in my notes, but a

lot

of more SR-y type opinions.

It's okay Alstro -- everyone never agrees with my approaches / ideas. But I end up being right regardless of allignment unfort. However, I will tell you this -- I did give out my reads already. I already called you as possible town if james flips scum. And I am still wondering if there is possible scum in Zyla / James. This would just then imply possible scum in Zyla / Alstro and James as the second scum. But eh; I don't like this right now. Val is still my null read and Cook has a high probabiltiy to be scum at this point and is the playing the way I thought they would play it -- Dodgy scum. That's how I thought Val would play but they have been active + wallposts; so they were leaning town for me ever since. But Cook -- They have this approach different then there town games, it seems more similar to there scum games imo.

[GrandpaMo]

lol ok i guess i have to explain why i thought alstro was scum so randomly lmfao

i thought it was obvious. i dont really scumread them, they will probably be in my townreads just because i cant read 3 ppl and the 2 ppl are acting scummy.

To be fair, that doesn't really count as an explanation.

"I have to explain why I thought alstro was scum, actually I don't, here is reasons for a town read"

Fine, as you know, I townread them myself, and you can always change your mind if later events warrant it, but let's hear what crossed your mind when said you thought they were scum, even if it was only for a few minutes. It was long enough for you to post a read to that effect before it was recinded.

i thought i posted my other read on alstro... explaining this no?

well to reitreate, at the moment, i had realized alstro could have been following the track of "townread grandpa" as a possible pocket and use this as a decisive measure setup to vote me on day 2 -- they would know james would flip town, so that would set me up right for alstro's push for tmr.

however, that changed because i am looking at this more broadly -- and not too specific so i came up with if james flips town -- alstro could be scum (which is probably wrong but oh well, i believe it)

[GrandpaMo]

I haven't insulted or directly said anything that was mean? I was talking about the game. Look James comes back I am assuming and says they went to sleep, that is understandable. But once they come back; including right now! and the previous night, they still have yet to respond to anything I have said.

I also noted James' #162 was essentially "I was asleep, the fact I haven't fully addressed your point yet is NAI, stop trying to make a case out of nothing", but the implied part is of course "Now that I am awake, and engaging with the game, I will address it".

The point that was left unaddressed was James' sudden jump onto the GrandpaMo wagon. I gave a clear 24 hours for James to come back to it, in case he was putting something together and we would see a response. In the meantime, Grandpa has already repromoted, in a somewhat aggressive manner that Alstroemerial has pointed out they find a little on the harsh side, without response.

When I come back to the same thing in #196 James does have an answer, although I have already pointed out I find it entirely unsatisfying.

I'm not stubborn enough.
As in I'm not stubborn enough to vote Val89 when GrandpaMo is giving me much scummier vibes.

It does appear to me if that was all we were going to get, we could have had it well before now, especially since James has been posting in the time since his #162.

So, in conclusion, whilst I agreed with Alstroemerial (and James himself) that all this was initially NAI, at this point it does seem to be a pattern emerging which I do think adds to the very strong scum case against James.

THANK U AND JAMES THINKS IM POCKETING BECAUSE OF U HAVING A SCUMCASE just for this particular reason!

It just frustrated me what Alstro said that's why I was in an aggressive manner.

[GrandpaMo]

wait i think alstro is scum lol

nvm i think we vote james today and if they flip green, i think ur scum

wtf
doublewtf
VOTE: Grandpa

lol ok i guess i have to explain why i thought alstro was scum so randomly lmfao

i thought it was obvious. i dont really scumread them, they will probably be in my townreads just because i cant read 3 ppl and the 2 ppl are acting scummy.

and so far you + val have done like the most contributions

I

have done the most contribution?

The alstro read seemed really out of the blue and I disagreed with it. Then the second part seemed like you trying to set up for tomorrow.

lol just saw this and i think i meant val + alsro or whoever the 2nd activiry person is other than me

anyways, it was suppose to be outta blue for a reason. just because u disagree wit me doesnt mean im scum? thats a fallacy right there. and how can i set up a set up as scum? that would involve 200 iq wifom. it doesnt advantage me if i try to set up alstro because i already sorta townread alstro and i probably think james flips scum here

[GrandpaMo]

All,

I am so sorry I am so late to the thread - you've all given me so much to think about, so it has taken me a little while to gather my thoughts and process it all.

One advantage of waiting until there has been a bit of back and forth is that one can start to get a sense of how the game is going to go, and start to make some initial reads. Lots to unpack here, so I'll get straight to it.

First!

I don't like this post. Clearly, post 6 is not post 1, and lying to us straight out of the bad is not a good look. In fact, I propose that we should make it a sort of agreement between us that if any of us are caught lying - about anything - we should give strong consideration to eliminating said person as a result. In addition, the whole post - the content, the tone, the context in which it was posted just gives me a general sense of unease. It was a gut read initially, but I think it's clear I was considering

MiniMegabyte

as at least a slight leanscum here already. Hence far, I have to say the rest of the players are null reads, which considering how advanced the game state is we can start to stop chucking random votes around, this took me a surprise - I was about to say we have some very good mafia players here, but then it occurred to me that if you were truly that skilled you would have convinced me to give you at least a slight townread by now.

(inserts shaking hands emoji here)

Ahh, and here is it; the smoking gun that grants some confidence to that earlier gut read. I am aware of the existence of confirmation bias, so I have gone through all the contributions

MiniMegabyte

has made very carefully several times to try and guard against that, but no -

MiniMegabyte

is a strong scum read at this point. Let me explain.

MiniMegabyte

is clearly trying to insinuate that she has no personal knowledge of

VFP

, particularly as this comes of the back of

VFPs

explicit (and as it turned out - also false) statement that they don't know

anyone

in the game. Also of interest is the actual emoji chosen here - a handshake. Between two persons. To the exclusion of the rest of the group. See where I am going with this? She also specifically and pointedly says "Nice to meet

ya

!" instead of "nice to meet

you

". We all know English is one of those languages where 'you' can refer to a singular or an individual. Using it here would be natural, avoid the wavy red line most modern day browsers would assign to the word, and give her the benefit of the ambiguity if anyone paying attention catches it. Instead, we get the informal 'ya', standing in contrast to 'y'all', which to me is a further indication the introduction is addressed specifically to

VFP

and she wants us to know it.

The question now becomes why? In my view, the only explanation that makes any sort of sense is she wants us to think, even if only subconsciously, that this over the top, public performance is the first time these two have ever came in to contact, and they most definitely have

NOT

already said hi to each other in the scum thread. No sir, definitely not! Nothing to see here folks! Shake my hand and smile!

You might think that this makes

VFP

her scum partner then, and the game is solved. Putting aside my feelings towards how I would feel if my first ever game of Mafia was solved and ended on the first IRL day, I don't actually think this is the case. I think

MiniMegabyte

knew that someone might pick up on the vibes between the two here and our first thought would be that they are scum partners. But equally, perhaps that what they just want us to think? I wish there was some term to describe this, but I've checked the wiki inside out and can't find one, so I have invented one, both to refer to this situation and the approach I think we should take to try and come to some sort of conclusion as to how to deal with it. I call it Written Information Follows Overt Meta (WIFOM) - in other words, when what you see written down is in line with what would be expected from your experience you should assume that it is true. No sane scum player wants to associate themselves so strongly with their scum partner so obviously and early, so when we see it happening, we should assume that ISN'T what is happening, that makes no sense. Thus, this is all a big play, and we can actually rule out

VFP

as the other scum. As an aside, feel free to use that acronym in your future posts, but do try to remember who invented it and give credit every now and again.

There is the open question as to why

VFP

also lied about their association with other players, but I am going to assume for the moment that was a legitimate mistake - I know what I said about eliminating proven liars, but I don't think they would be so fast to walk it back. In contrast, I think

MiniMegabyte

fully expected that "First!" lie to slip under the radar.

So;

VFP

townread,

MiniMegabyte

scumread,b]

everyone else

[/b]null. I think it's pretty clear given that set of reads where my vote should go. I'm going to put my vote where it obviously belongs, and strongly feel that we should make them the elimination for the day. Obviously there is quite a bit of time left before deadline, and I would like to see some more discussion, but I will put my vote on them and see what happens with the rest of the votes. Being the first, I won't be able to hammer, but I want to make it clear that I would be prepared to hammer, and it will take a lot now to convince me to switch my vote.

With all that said: VOTE: T3

holy shit, another flailing scum, is mini + val the scum team?

How is this flailing Grandpa? Do you look at any big text and just say it's flailing?

shh i was memezmerized by Not_Mafia's "flailing scum" I was scum that game and somehow won. so ima use the same tactic to scare scum

[GrandpaMo]

anyways, it was suppose to be outta blue for a reason. just because u disagree wit me doesnt mean im scum? thats a fallacy right there. and how can i set up a set up as scum? that would involve 200 iq wifom. it doesnt advantage me if i try to set up alstro because i already sorta townread alstro and i probably think james flips scum here

Ok, you get one chance to convince me.

Why is James scum?

This is because I disagree with your statement that his aggressiveness felt "geninue" I actually find it very very unnatural for someone to keep coming up with weak logic right after pivoting onto me. Yes, that is understandable to pivot on to me. But after Zyla's conclusion, it just seemed like James was trying to find an area to scumcase me. Look at the whole interaction with me and James...

Post 145 -- Just comes to the conclusion that I am pocketing Val? In what world that would benefit me? To get a an elim on James as scum? I wasn't even focused too much on James that point and was going to vote Zyla in fact just because of how they went against VFP for a "no lim"

Post 145 -- Also post 145, they say me talking in third person is scum? They never ellaborate and explain why. Just seems more farfetched BS. I then bring up the point to read my meta and see how I talk. Because if you do then you can see I talk in third person as town.

Then I tell them to look at context -- in which (probably) purposefully looks at the wrong context in post 139. I refute every claim -- and come up with reasonings / post numbers to show James the real context in post 146.

Then me redacting my reasonings on particular interactions -- Okay I can see how that could be scum. But it can also seem to be a towny thing after justification. I justified my reasoning on why I didn't wanna give out my thought. Why would I as scum risk just saying no comment when I know someone like James could possibly just scumcase me for it? I could have just kept it for my self. But no -- I wanted town to see that I actually had a point and thought I was thinking there and was going to go back to it after more interactions happened. I explained this in post 152 -- No strong arguement against it / Again just seems like a weak reasoning from James to scumcase me on.

Then , I get on James on how they disappeared. -- Then they reply that they slept. That is understandable and that is not why I fully gave them. (post 162)

Then they interact with others such as in post 163.

Then disappear again. Then I make another remark about them disappearing again because I really wanted them to respond to me at this point.

And see what they said. Then alstro gets offended and makes a point about them sleeping? That frustrated me because through the sequence of events, that is NOT what had happened.

In post 199, James comes back; still IGNORES me and replies to Val. In the mindset of town... Doesn't town become more focused on their scumread more? I feel like scum would try to find areas where they could just interact with another person other than scumread. Also this is a scum quote (also in the same post) where they say "As in I'm not stubborn enough to vote Val89 when GrandpaMo is giving me much scummier vibes." They reply to VAL saying this! But does not directly address it to me? Nor have addressed any other my points? It just looks like scum is hiding now.

Then boom disappears once again.

[GrandpaMo]

You've established you are a fan of conciseness, and James don't post all that much, but what he does post is consistently inconsistent with his own stated position of how town should/do act.

Town stay inconsistent all the time.
Only scum cares about keeping up an appearance of looking good.
Changing a vote from a player they read as scummy to a new player they read as even more scummy makes sense as an progression so i disagree with your take that it comes from nowhere and that it is necesarilly an scummy act.
I’m not faulting you for the read as i generally think it is an typical reasoning for scumreading slots as an novice town player. But when you’ve played for a bit as i have you learn to recognize town from tells that don’t seem immediately obvious but are clearly there if you know what to look for.

I disagree. Town usually is consistent generally through the bigger picture but has a minor inconsistencies that can be justified.

Also it is the HOW they did it -- not what they did in my opinion. They came from a generalized view that Val was scum -- but unvotes me after pressure on him proceeds, this then probably makes them change their vote to me then I apply pressure and now has a general consensus that I am pocketing Val? Which would imply Val is now town in their eyes?

This brings up a question; if I am scum in James eyes, who am I scum with? @James.

[GrandpaMo]

Zyla has the most chance of flipping scum here imo.

I did scumread Zyla but I still think James is still scummier. I am not to worried about a Zyla vote but would rather vote on James in my opinion.

@NEE, do you think that inconsistent where they implicitly townread Val through them scumreading me, comes from town?

[GrandpaMo]

Because in my opinion; they never justified that pivot. They keep bringing up weak statements such as "Grandpa gives off more scummier vibes" etc.

Also hint hint: This post was a continuation of them ignoring my points from the interaction earlier |:

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: VFP I don't like the fact that you seem to have chosen no-elims on D1 to be a hill you're willing to die on, nor the fact that you implied that you've won multiple games with a D1 no-elim when I can't find any examples

Pushing someone for the reasoning of them: "wanting a no lim" looks really bad for you.
And especially your switch to Grandpa.
I’d wager this up as an unconvincing buss on a scum buddy, or they just pushed VFP for an really bad reason before switching gears to Grandpa.

Just saw this now -- I agree, and that was my intial scumcase on Zyla as you see in my earlier iso. But the problem I am having with me fully scumreading them is like -- They just; Idk I feel like they are more of a misguided town because it looks like they are tryna geninuely solve the game with them doing analysis on there scumcases on them. It feels like they come from a town mindset and that is what is tripping me up. So they are still overall scumleeaning but a null read overall until I hear more from people and their take on Zyla. Like shit -- You just confirmed my actual scumcase ( Idk if you read it but it was basicall the same) and that could be you!town having the same thought as me. So I will probably townlean you for now.

[GrandpaMo]

I think also I will townlean you for not straight up finding scum between me and James. I feel like scum would just try to get an easy vote off me or James.

[GrandpaMo]

Anyway i will let this point ruminate as i wait to see James's response to all of this.

Yes you are very much correct. I think Jame's reaction will tell us a lot imo. And I still really hope for a response to my points.

[GrandpaMo]

@NEE, do you think that inconsistent where they implicitly townread Val through them scumreading me, comes from town?

I'm not going to go way hard on this particular point as i'm not James's lawyer, but it is my experience that town sometimes change their reads drastically without sharing the exact thought process. And James here went from saying they scumread Val, to saying they scumread you and that they implicitly townread Val. Why would scum!James neglect mentioning their progression? Now town!James might very well have neglected to mention this point as they simply considered that a world in which Grandpa!scum implicitly meant town!Val.

They could also hid it with INTENT as scum because they knew they couldn't get town to vote Val and saw Zyla voting me and Cook scum reading me so they took the opportunity to scumread me -- hence the farfetched BS reasons (from my perspective)

They could also have hid it WITHOUT INTENT as scum finding a place to scumread me and didn't know they had scumread Val in the beginning.

I only bring this point up because James has explicitly said that, I, GRANDPA IS POCKETING VAL (I didn't even know who at the point -- meaning who getting Val to sheep with but I think he was talking about himself) and so it just brings up that question that you brought with the inconsistencies stuff; would town really neglect that?. Ironically, it should be more of Val pocketing me if that were the case since Val was the one who started the scumread on James lol.

[GrandpaMo]

Thats 3 pages, 3 reads! A read per page!

Obliged to scumread you for this LAMIST.

An example of why I'm TR-ing NEE -- pointing out something new that could have flown under the radar (in addition to the ongoing case NEE is making against Zyla). I'm getting the sense that NEE is engaging with the game with a broad lens, and I do agree that the case against Zyla instead of one of the ongoing wagons makes it more likely that NEE is town, especially if one of Grandpa/James is scum -- if NEE was one of their scumbuddies, it would make sense to try to help out by going for the other one in the pair.

Alstro do you townread me? Because me and the scumcase on Zyla from NEE allign so I am assuming they townread me. And my townread on NEE alligns with the same proposed logic on how NEE is town because they were on Zyla instead of the ongoing wagon.

[GrandpaMo]

UNVOTE: grandpa
I remember I sred grandpa in another game as town for exactly this.

What??

[GrandpaMo]

I remember I sred grandpa in another game as town for exactly this.

What's this?

LOL

I had the same question. Like you push me for something that could have been easily debunked and in which I did then you claim it didn't happen, and now you claim it did?

[GrandpaMo]

On the subject of the Grandpa/James wagons, I think Grandpa should give serious consideration to moving his vote to James. I get the impression the vote on Cook was done to try draw a reaction from them, and it hasn't had that effect, and I doubt anyone else is going Cook right now.

Me, Grandpa and Alstroemerial have all read James as scum. Alstro has also expressed disquiet at the fact some slots are coasting, and I agree. James isn't going into hammer range without a vote from one of the 'passive' slots, that, being an E-1 vote, would presumably induce some sort of explanation. It's unlikely further votes on James will come from NorwegianboyEE nor Zyla, so it means some of the inactive slots will have to come to table.

If we are wrong about James being scum, and those other slots agree with NorwegianboyEE that James is Town, and we are all silly newbies voting a townie, then perhaps one of them might have something more convincing than NorwegianboyEE's had for us so far, and the game moves on that way.

Nah. I will wait more.

I don't think scumteam would make it obvious as Zyla + James; I just believe one scum is between in them. Zyla is probably misguided town and James is the scum person.

I am just trying to figure out who James could be possible scum with.

[GrandpaMo]

I think if James is scum, and they are bussing -- Val/Alstro are highly probably candidates (leaning heavily on Val tho). I will redact this info until tmr, if I am alive by then.

If James is scum, and they are not bussing, I believe there scum partner could be T3.

T3 also looks bad.

And cook is just NAI, scumreading me right now which is kinda eh wack. But again, this is why I am not voting James.

[GrandpaMo]

wait wtf zyla hol up.

this is a very weird wall post

[GrandpaMo]

okay ill try my best to digest this info because im confused? are you like tryna reiterate a scumcase on me?

Spoiler:

RVS sucks

True, but it's one of two options I know of to get the ball rolling. If you don't like RVS, how would you prefer town getting conversation going?

This is very very ironic because a No Lim has caused this conversation to get started and maybe get a read on you and maybe see interactions with other people. This is why I pointed you out earlier.

I lied.

Yes, I lied to you, it wasn't just because I pointed it out to say "it was funny", I pointed it out because I knew this was going to happen, and you weren't going to realize it after questioning hence why I had to lie so I can drop it off. But since, it has escalated ever since, the only reason this conversation happened was because VFP did a no lim. It's really NAI, and it seems like you are trying to set him up as scum for it. Yes, maybe he could be scum however, this is something more of NAI in my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a regard. Many people no lim on day 1 and many people vote on day 1.

We will all be voting regardless by day 1, so there is no point to continue this conversation. I thought you would stop because you would find it unnecessary and NAI to keep going about a specific vote, specifically a no lim.

But you didn't.

So I will give you scumpings for this. I don't fully scumread you because you initiating this conversation could be towny of you but the way you are handling it could be scummy of you if you understand.

"NAI, could be scum, don't read over this, stop the conversation"
To me this just seems absurd, he seems to go back and forth and back in a single post, and tries to suggest the conversation should just end, when so far it's been pretty productive and getting people to talk.

werent you the one who literally got on me for getting on a no lim vote being counterproductive??? and you even agreeed to that and that instantly contradicted your claim where you said "a no lim doesn't create any discussion x and x". very very hypocritcal. i don't go back and forth. alstro + me have gave you what that quote meant like 5 times already and you even came at an understanding later after i told you that i proposed a summary at the end in whcih you were like it wasn't a summary but alstro already had gave you the meaning and i agreeed. alstro hit almost spot on and i added to it. |: i rlly dont know why u are still bringing this up now.

Spoiler:

i don't know if you were serious at all

No, I wasn't.

and realized it was just a BS post to make it seem long, with no content providing and voting someone other than your scumread xD

Absolutely correct. It was a straight-forward RVS vote dressed up in the style of a serious wall post. You correctly identify the most obvious punchline there, but I dropped a few other things that should have made it clear it was entirely non-serious. I don't really claim to have invented the acronym 'WIFOM', to take another example. Of course, if it transpires that

MiniMegaByte

is scum, I reserve the right to imply I was in fact being serious and I knew from day one.

My post #27 was equally non-serious. Technically, reading you as null was serious, but the reasons equally BS. The clue there was the fact the that you HAD put your vote on one of the 3 - and Cook, MiniMegaByte and me are definitely 3, by the way - with the kicker being the reference to

alstroemeria

, whom was yet to be mentioned. I read you as null because I was reading everyone as null. There is nothing upto #27 I consider indicative either way.

Okay I guess we both misunderstood? LOL. I just thought my RVS didn't really count as a "joke" scumread or whatever you want to read it as and so I just assumed you would imply that the people I scumread (and not the person I voted!) was scum.

Who would've thought that at the beginning of the game people joke around

Indeed.

you can see how it's bad and you should admit that.

To be clear - I do nothing of the sort.

Okay this was also sort of a wifom post to see your reaction to how well you took pressure early game. You took it well, unless this how you play good as scum. But I will give you towncreds for now as this post was not expected (yes, I expected a manipulative scummy post for some reason lol) but you did well responding to my points.

How well he took pressure? He just said his stuff wasn't serious? That get's town cred?

Look at the full context please. Smh. The answer you are looking for should be within the conversation. I will give you a hint; the reason relates to a misunderstanding we BOTH had. (I am assuming)

I don't like that this is his best answer. Where in the conversation is the answer? How is it supposed to be found? If the person asking the question was able to find it, don't you think they would've just... not asked the question?

i have no idea what you are referring to here. this is what happened in the interaction between me and james -- it seems like you are getting very over defensive as ur possible scum partner james. i already explained this multiple times. look at post 146 and the whole quote wall wit james initial reply and my justification as it wasn't that obvious. that context was obvious and town should have easily got it.

Spoiler:

Thanks for condensing everything a bit more, Zyla. I interpreted post 78 as a joke, kind of like someone who's never played chess saying they're undefeated in chess. To be honest, so far, the only post in VFP's ISO that I interpret as serious is 57, and I would be curious for more of their thoughts.

Also, I'm not going to quote it again, but here's my interpretation of GrandpaMo's post 87... I didn't totally follow the first sentence so it kind of starts from after that.
1) VFP's no-lim is NAI, so he thinks it is suspicious that you are scumreading them for it.
2) Everyone will eventually vote by the end of D1, including VFP, so stressing about the no-lim is pointless. So, he expected you to stop pushing the issue, but you didn't.
3) Pushing something that Mo thinks is NAI makes you suspicious a bit.

Now that I write it out like that it seems a little less compelling than it was in my head, to be honest, but that combined with the OMGUS still has you slightly on the red side for me. But I do agree that it's been confusing.

Yea, that's why I said bad reaction because it was a weird omgus.

I don't fully scumread you but you are like the only one who I see that could be possible scum.

Also I agree with T3 and I do think your introduction is actually towny.

You did hit all the parts right. That was the main reason but it's also the way she ended up going with the convo -- just seemed like a way for scum to, I don't know, maybe drive a possible condemn? See this is why I give them scumpings not a full scumread because they could defeinitly be town for initiating the scumread or this convo -- which is has to be found, a very towny thing to do. So if that is the case (which will need to be decided later) then yea there is a chance for her to flip town.

(I'm not entirely sure who the pronouns are referring to, but it doesn't really matter)
If Grandpa doesn't scumread someone, how are they possible scum? That just doesn't make sense, could be just bad logic though.

idk if you noticed, but i said "possible scum" this was still when i was debating if u were scum or possible misguided town then james came into play and just used my bias. james could just be using u as a utility to vote me. thats where my paranoia creeked in. i didnt have any scumreads at the moment, but you were the only one who has potential to be scum. keywords: fully (which implies scumlean) and possible (paranoia of null read) and i furhter exemplified this in a later read where i said you were null scum leaning.

Also, I very much dislike how James just left this conversation. This looks bad for you, James.

Scumreading someone for going to sleep is just.. bad.

Okay this post pissed me off. What?????!?!?

I am not even-

Like where were you in the last 10 pages???

Did you not see the full post for this?

Did you not see anything for this?

Why are just bringing this stuff up now??

You just look like a bit of flailing scum trying your best to drive any momentum on a vote on me?

I think also I will townlean you for not straight up finding scum between me and James. I feel like scum would just try to get an easy vote off me or James.

And then there's this. Why is he commenting saying that he's an easy vote?

because majority is on us or james?? This should have been obvious. You could have been confused, but you shouldn't be know. the two major bws was me and james, heck i even think i was at e-2. and i had the most votes on me. scum usually comes in after a replacement and decides to scumread the person wit the most votes well that is biased because it happened to me before lol in a pervious game.

but idk -- this should have been obvious to you. also it sounds like you could be manipulating this to make me look bad for only me? like you know i said easy vote off me OR james? not just me. why didn't you mention james??

POSSIBLE SCUMPARTNER???!?!?!?!?

we may never know:(

[GrandpaMo]

I remember I sred grandpa in another game as town for exactly this.

What's this?

LOL

I had the same question. Like you push me for something that could have been easily debunked and in which I did then you claim it didn't happen, and now you claim it did?

The setting up for the following day.

do u have source, idk what u are exactly referring to here..? i have bad memory

[GrandpaMo]

okay ill try my best to digest this info because im confused? are you like tryna reiterate a scumcase on me?

Spoiler:

RVS sucks

True, but it's one of two options I know of to get the ball rolling. If you don't like RVS, how would you prefer town getting conversation going?

This is very very ironic because a No Lim has caused this conversation to get started and maybe get a read on you and maybe see interactions with other people. This is why I pointed you out earlier.

I lied.

Yes, I lied to you, it wasn't just because I pointed it out to say "it was funny", I pointed it out because I knew this was going to happen, and you weren't going to realize it after questioning hence why I had to lie so I can drop it off. But since, it has escalated ever since, the only reason this conversation happened was because VFP did a no lim. It's really NAI, and it seems like you are trying to set him up as scum for it. Yes, maybe he could be scum however, this is something more of NAI in my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a regard. Many people no lim on day 1 and many people vote on day 1.

We will all be voting regardless by day 1, so there is no point to continue this conversation. I thought you would stop because you would find it unnecessary and NAI to keep going about a specific vote, specifically a no lim.

But you didn't.

So I will give you scumpings for this. I don't fully scumread you because you initiating this conversation could be towny of you but the way you are handling it could be scummy of you if you understand.

"NAI, could be scum, don't read over this, stop the conversation"
To me this just seems absurd, he seems to go back and forth and back in a single post, and tries to suggest the conversation should just end, when so far it's been pretty productive and getting people to talk.

werent you the one who literally got on me for getting on a no lim vote being counterproductive??? and you even agreeed to that and that instantly contradicted your claim where you said "a no lim doesn't create any discussion x and x". very very hypocritcal. i don't go back and forth. alstro + me have gave you what that quote meant like 5 times already and you even came at an understanding later after i told you that i proposed a summary at the end in whcih you were like it wasn't a summary but alstro already had gave you the meaning and i agreeed. alstro hit almost spot on and i added to it. |: i rlly dont know why u are still bringing this up now.

Spoiler:

i don't know if you were serious at all

No, I wasn't.

and realized it was just a BS post to make it seem long, with no content providing and voting someone other than your scumread xD

Absolutely correct. It was a straight-forward RVS vote dressed up in the style of a serious wall post. You correctly identify the most obvious punchline there, but I dropped a few other things that should have made it clear it was entirely non-serious. I don't really claim to have invented the acronym 'WIFOM', to take another example. Of course, if it transpires that

MiniMegaByte

is scum, I reserve the right to imply I was in fact being serious and I knew from day one.

My post #27 was equally non-serious. Technically, reading you as null was serious, but the reasons equally BS. The clue there was the fact the that you HAD put your vote on one of the 3 - and Cook, MiniMegaByte and me are definitely 3, by the way - with the kicker being the reference to

alstroemeria

, whom was yet to be mentioned. I read you as null because I was reading everyone as null. There is nothing upto #27 I consider indicative either way.

Okay I guess we both misunderstood? LOL. I just thought my RVS didn't really count as a "joke" scumread or whatever you want to read it as and so I just assumed you would imply that the people I scumread (and not the person I voted!) was scum.

Who would've thought that at the beginning of the game people joke around

Indeed.

you can see how it's bad and you should admit that.

To be clear - I do nothing of the sort.

Okay this was also sort of a wifom post to see your reaction to how well you took pressure early game. You took it well, unless this how you play good as scum. But I will give you towncreds for now as this post was not expected (yes, I expected a manipulative scummy post for some reason lol) but you did well responding to my points.

How well he took pressure? He just said his stuff wasn't serious? That get's town cred?

Look at the full context please. Smh. The answer you are looking for should be within the conversation. I will give you a hint; the reason relates to a misunderstanding we BOTH had. (I am assuming)

I don't like that this is his best answer. Where in the conversation is the answer? How is it supposed to be found? If the person asking the question was able to find it, don't you think they would've just... not asked the question?

i have no idea what you are referring to here. this is what happened in the interaction between me and james -- it seems like you are getting very over defensive as ur possible scum partner james. i already explained this multiple times. look at post 146 and the whole quote wall wit james initial reply and my justification as it wasn't that obvious. that context was obvious and town should have easily got it.

Spoiler:

Thanks for condensing everything a bit more, Zyla. I interpreted post 78 as a joke, kind of like someone who's never played chess saying they're undefeated in chess. To be honest, so far, the only post in VFP's ISO that I interpret as serious is 57, and I would be curious for more of their thoughts.

Also, I'm not going to quote it again, but here's my interpretation of GrandpaMo's post 87... I didn't totally follow the first sentence so it kind of starts from after that.
1) VFP's no-lim is NAI, so he thinks it is suspicious that you are scumreading them for it.
2) Everyone will eventually vote by the end of D1, including VFP, so stressing about the no-lim is pointless. So, he expected you to stop pushing the issue, but you didn't.
3) Pushing something that Mo thinks is NAI makes you suspicious a bit.

Now that I write it out like that it seems a little less compelling than it was in my head, to be honest, but that combined with the OMGUS still has you slightly on the red side for me. But I do agree that it's been confusing.

Yea, that's why I said bad reaction because it was a weird omgus.

I don't fully scumread you but you are like the only one who I see that could be possible scum.

Also I agree with T3 and I do think your introduction is actually towny.

You did hit all the parts right. That was the main reason but it's also the way she ended up going with the convo -- just seemed like a way for scum to, I don't know, maybe drive a possible condemn? See this is why I give them scumpings not a full scumread because they could defeinitly be town for initiating the scumread or this convo -- which is has to be found, a very towny thing to do. So if that is the case (which will need to be decided later) then yea there is a chance for her to flip town.

(I'm not entirely sure who the pronouns are referring to, but it doesn't really matter)
If Grandpa doesn't scumread someone, how are they possible scum? That just doesn't make sense, could be just bad logic though.

idk if you noticed, but i said "possible scum" this was still when i was debating if u were scum or possible misguided town then james came into play and just used my bias. james could just be using u as a utility to vote me. thats where my paranoia creeked in. i didnt have any scumreads at the moment, but you were the only one who has potential to be scum. keywords: fully (which implies scumlean) and possible (paranoia of null read) and i furhter exemplified this in a later read where i said you were null scum leaning.

Also, I very much dislike how James just left this conversation. This looks bad for you, James.

Scumreading someone for going to sleep is just.. bad.

Okay this post pissed me off. What?????!?!?

I am not even-

Like where were you in the last 10 pages???

Did you not see the full post for this?

Did you not see anything for this?

Why are just bringing this stuff up now??

You just look like a bit of flailing scum trying your best to drive any momentum on a vote on me?

I think also I will townlean you for not straight up finding scum between me and James. I feel like scum would just try to get an easy vote off me or James.

And then there's this. Why is he commenting saying that he's an easy vote?

because majority is on us or james?? This should have been obvious. You could have been confused, but you shouldn't be know. the two major bws was me and james, heck i even think i was at e-2. and i had the most votes on me. scum usually comes in after a replacement and decides to scumread the person wit the most votes well that is biased because it happened to me before lol in a pervious game.

but idk -- this should have been obvious to you. also it sounds like you could be manipulating this to make me look bad for only me? like you know i said easy vote off me OR james? not just me. why didn't you mention james??

POSSIBLE SCUMPARTNER???!?!?!?!?

we may never know:(

holy fuck -- these quotes are so bad from zyla that it makes me want to fully townread them ;-;

[GrandpaMo]

pls help town

[GrandpaMo]

could scum just be that obvious and be james and zyla? no way bru lolol

[GrandpaMo]

zyla stop making me gicing the benift of the doubt plssssss

do something very towny rn

[GrandpaMo]

could scum just be that obvious and be james and zyla? no way bru lolol

Okay, per the challenge that NEE sort of made, here is my short-as-possible explanation for being suspicious of James. I reference post numbers in the overall thread but it could be more helpful to have the ISO.

1) The initial vote on Val in 35 was pretty much an RVS joke (confirmed in post 85), but then dug in without giving additional reasoning in 39 and 64.

2) This leads into the "tunneling discourse", which you can get a general sense of from posts 66, 116, and 127. Someone pointed out that James could have been being misleading about his intent in the posts where he is later backing down. Regardless of the exact meaning that was intended, it still does strike me as unusually aggressive when, at the time it started, there wasn't a clear case laid out.

3) This is specific to if Zyla is scum, I suppose, but you can see some weird defensiveness in 91 and 149. You can also see that it's reciprocated in Zyla's ISO (including the "gut read" on James with reasons for everyone else), but I'm trying to keep this James-focused. Still, it does look to me like if you suspect Zyla, there's good reason to suspect James too.

4) The pivot to Grandpa is a bit of an OMGUS, looking at posts 115 (Grandpa) and 139-140 (James). There is a bit of a gap in terms of post numbers, yes, but this is in part filled with James working through reactions earlier in the thread.

Having this written out makes me hedge a bit on if this is my #1 go (particularly #3) but I just want to hear a bit from James before I'm comfortable thinking about moving. It's like, not changing the read, just changing who the #1 SR is potentially, depending on James's takes.

yea so for number 3 -- what do u think about like the wall post that zyla posted of where i was saying i was an easy vote like look at post 299, last quote message

they only pointed out me and not james

[GrandpaMo]

Thats 3 pages, 3 reads! A read per page!

Obliged to scumread you for this LAMIST.

An example of why I'm TR-ing NEE -- pointing out something new that could have flown under the radar (in addition to the ongoing case NEE is making against Zyla). I'm getting the sense that NEE is engaging with the game with a broad lens, and I do agree that the case against Zyla instead of one of the ongoing wagons makes it more likely that NEE is town, especially if one of Grandpa/James is scum -- if NEE was one of their scumbuddies, it would make sense to try to help out by going for the other one in the pair.

Alstro do you townread me? Because me and the scumcase on Zyla from NEE allign so I am assuming they townread me. And my townread on NEE alligns with the same proposed logic on how NEE is town because they were on Zyla instead of the ongoing wagon.

I already townread you, not for those reasons, but more because I don't think a relatively new scum would get in the middle of so much direct one v one back and forth and be so aggressive.

i feel like those are kinda wack reasons to townread me -- the arguement that my logic pairs up with yours makes more sense mechanically to townread me and has a better stance for that.

[GrandpaMo]

what do u think about like the wall post that zyla posted of where i was saying i was an easy vote like look at post 299, last quote message

they only pointed out me and not james

Don't see anything wrong with that - it seems like a stretch to point to you talking about Norwee not jumping on either wagon and suggest that is scummy; but it seems equally weird to point to the fact she mentions the wagon on you and not the one on James to suggest they might be partners.

There is enough floating about and I think weak arguments like this are just starting to cloud the issue.

This post pings me weirdly. Nothing to vote over and idk why.

i disagree t3.. i think val is right. confirmation bias is starting to take place imo.

we should just back off for a bit now -- and let james and nyla rebuttal for a second to give us a new perception

[GrandpaMo]

I was just going to sheep NorwegianboyEE.
But I think Grampa is actually just scum here.

what

can u giv reasons? or nah

[GrandpaMo]

because u havent done jackshit in the game + u should know my meta lol

and should know im acting my town!grandpa

let me hear those farfetched bs reasons once again

[GrandpaMo]

Give me a moment and I'll post an actual response.
With regards to me and Zyla having different reasons for voting GrandpaMo, you have my reasons already, Zyla seemed more like a vibe read or trying for a 1v1. At least that's what I felt about it when I read Zyla's posts.

this looks like scum tryna distance?

[GrandpaMo]

because u havent done jackshit in the game + u should know my meta lol

and should know im acting my town!grandpa

let me hear those farfetched bs reasons once again

And boom just like that I'm now 100% convinced you're Scum.

how? i always speak like this lolol

[GrandpaMo]

u keep just saying im scum im scum for specific quotes, but never explain why. you have literally never addressed any of the points i gave in our interaction. you yet once again never decided to say anything. but im still giving u the benfit of the doubt

[GrandpaMo]

There is no world, absolutely no world, where actual town would need to self meta that hard. You can't think of anything else apart from, insulting someone's playing, self meta, and insulting again? I don't know why you're on such a high horse but people are trying to enjoy this game there's no need to be unpleasant.

I'm never insulting another players playstyle. VFP just hasn't done much contribution and that is FACTS. Look at there other games and you will see a different playstyle... Them contributing and giving bare minimum reasons. You don't see any reasons / lots of contribution just stating statements.

Now you are using this to manipulate the situation... to guilt trip possible town. If you can't handle the truth, then I don't know -- I get frustrated once people scumread me for no reason and don't scum read someone who has flailed and been heavily scumcased on.

VFP doesn't even have to self meta.

I just say using meta is a guidance. That's all.

[GrandpaMo]

Anyways, I have work and I come back around 4 pm EST, I better expect a good response.

[GrandpaMo]

Give me a moment and I'll post an actual response.

James, can we expect to see this any time soon, or do you feel like the the VFP/Grandpa interaction has offered up sufficient excuse to dodge again?

Give them time. It is a lot of digest. The interaction wit me + alstro's reasonings, etc...

[GrandpaMo]

WTF IS HAPPENING??

why are we pivoting onto someone who hasn't been the focus of the game? When I have done that to cook? and no one gave that attention besides val.

but now look at COOK FINALLY RESPONDS AND VOTES VFP but scumreads me ?

And no one ltierally notices cook's inactivity.

its such a shame.

we are voting between ME, ZYLA, or JAMES. Leave VFP out of day 1.

I think it is a way better strat to leave VFP / Cook / T3 for tomorrow's vote pool

and Alstro / Val / Nee for Day 3's Vote Pool.

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: Jame

can we just hurry up and get a lim already ?

im already frustrated enough

[GrandpaMo]

this flip will tell us alot of info regardless of allignment.

[GrandpaMo]

Hhhhhhh the fact that we went from H-4 to H-1 in fewer than 20 posts makes me really nervous. UNVOTE: VFP and VOTE: Cook due to the juxtaposition of the four most recent posts in the ISO. I should also note that the 9 prior posts don't really have any content besides actually

starting

the trust tell that several people have been ragging on Zyla for.

I'm on team "real life is a thing and so we shouldn't read TOO much in the time between posts because we don't know availability" but it's more the "I'm alright with this" coming straight from a townread with nothing in between, and 380 is something but I don't think it's sufficient.

Spoiler:

TR VFP
SL James
SR GrandpaMo, Val89, MiniMegabyte

i forgot u were someone in this game

can u explain ur reads?

I modded for Scum!VFP. Play here isn't indicative of that play there.
At the time, JamesTheNames gave me

vibes

of scumminess, same with Mo and Val.

Low content and in a quick burst from MM.

VOTE: VFP

i'm alright with this

I call it laying low and trying to avoid being scum read.

Why is that important to a townie?

I don't want to be the lim today >:|

VOTE: VFP

i'm alright with this

This is a dishonourable betrayal!

Inverted BBB's Gambit

By claiming Town and expressing a desire to not die to the elimination, Town will proceed to eliminate you.

Then, using IBBB's Gambit, you can then, as scum, draw association to whoever you want so that any attacks made by that person to you, dead confscum, appear to be scum distancing.

this is so fucking town. i just rread this. u have the exact same paranoia of vfp going to e-1 for no reason literally reason.

[GrandpaMo]

vfp i still think ur town so just look at me day 2 and vote james today pls

[GrandpaMo]

i think t3 has way more scum liablity than u

[GrandpaMo]

VFP

: who were you planning on voting for in 317?

Val

:why did you think James would hammer without announcing intent? And would that be coming from Town or Scum James?

T3

: what do you think is the difference between how you and VFP have been playing this game?

T3 and Cook

: the same question for both of you. Why do you think VFP is scummy?

Pedit:

Grandpa

: why do you get to decide what votes are 'acceptable'?

because im grandpa simple

[GrandpaMo]

VFP

: who were you planning on voting for in 317?

Val

:why did you think James would hammer without announcing intent? And would that be coming from Town or Scum James?

T3

: what do you think is the difference between how you and VFP have been playing this game?

T3 and Cook

: the same question for both of you. Why do you think VFP is scummy?

Pedit:

Grandpa

: why do you get to decide what votes are 'acceptable'?

since you asked us questions? why haven't you been able to answer / address my points that i made to you regarding that wall post that was full of manipulative reads.

[GrandpaMo]

No, but you think he is playing the same is what I gathered.

No that's more of a side feeling.
Grampa is trying to use false expectation on me. Buy saying I should know how town Grampa plays is an attempt to manipulate me into doubt. But as stated I don't think I've played with Grampa town.
There's a difference of knowing is someone is playing as town or scum and if they understand the motive that they are going for when it comes to meta.

The next part was about my reads being bullshit or a stretch. I forget the wording but it's the same meaning. I hadn't really gave any reads this game outside of you and Zyla (the Grampa town read was a joke that no one picked up on although it seemed pretty obvious to me). I don't think that my reasoning to you and Zyla were bad or out there.
If Grampa means from our last game, my reasoning was right and it helped in getting his scum buddy to be the lim. It wasn't even really out there.
So again, this is just an attempt to mix AtE with manipulation. This is what Grampa basically did last game as scum, while the game I replaced in with dead Grampa, he wasn't like this at all (I don't want to set this a stone as I would have to re read this so take that minor part as NAI).

also you literaly had me fucking pocketed that one fucking game LOL. pls do not forget bout that!!!

[GrandpaMo]

I'm gonna laugh if my half-joke, half-OMGUS hero-solve was correct, but the two of you are

really

making it look good right now

half omgus? what??? so you admit it ???

this is so scum that im not even going to vote for u ;-;

[GrandpaMo]

vfp i still think ur town so just look at me day 2 and vote james today pls

Stop trying to pull at my heart strings and answer my posts to you!

im sorry it may seem like im in a rush

i will get to them eventually

[GrandpaMo]

okay ill try my best to digest this info because im confused? are you like tryna reiterate a scumcase on me?

Spoiler:

RVS sucks

True, but it's one of two options I know of to get the ball rolling. If you don't like RVS, how would you prefer town getting conversation going?

This is very very ironic because a No Lim has caused this conversation to get started and maybe get a read on you and maybe see interactions with other people. This is why I pointed you out earlier.

I lied.

Yes, I lied to you, it wasn't just because I pointed it out to say "it was funny", I pointed it out because I knew this was going to happen, and you weren't going to realize it after questioning hence why I had to lie so I can drop it off. But since, it has escalated ever since, the only reason this conversation happened was because VFP did a no lim. It's really NAI, and it seems like you are trying to set him up as scum for it. Yes, maybe he could be scum however, this is something more of NAI in my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a regard. Many people no lim on day 1 and many people vote on day 1.

We will all be voting regardless by day 1, so there is no point to continue this conversation. I thought you would stop because you would find it unnecessary and NAI to keep going about a specific vote, specifically a no lim.

But you didn't.

So I will give you scumpings for this. I don't fully scumread you because you initiating this conversation could be towny of you but the way you are handling it could be scummy of you if you understand.

"NAI, could be scum, don't read over this, stop the conversation"
To me this just seems absurd, he seems to go back and forth and back in a single post, and tries to suggest the conversation should just end, when so far it's been pretty productive and getting people to talk.

werent you the one who literally got on me for getting on a no lim vote being counterproductive??? and you even agreeed to that and that instantly contradicted your claim where you said "a no lim doesn't create any discussion x and x". very very hypocritcal. i don't go back and forth. alstro + me have gave you what that quote meant like 5 times already and you even came at an understanding later after i told you that i proposed a summary at the end in whcih you were like it wasn't a summary but alstro already had gave you the meaning and i agreeed. alstro hit almost spot on and i added to it. |: i rlly dont know why u are still bringing this up now.

Spoiler:

i don't know if you were serious at all

No, I wasn't.

and realized it was just a BS post to make it seem long, with no content providing and voting someone other than your scumread xD

Absolutely correct. It was a straight-forward RVS vote dressed up in the style of a serious wall post. You correctly identify the most obvious punchline there, but I dropped a few other things that should have made it clear it was entirely non-serious. I don't really claim to have invented the acronym 'WIFOM', to take another example. Of course, if it transpires that

MiniMegaByte

is scum, I reserve the right to imply I was in fact being serious and I knew from day one.

My post #27 was equally non-serious. Technically, reading you as null was serious, but the reasons equally BS. The clue there was the fact the that you HAD put your vote on one of the 3 - and Cook, MiniMegaByte and me are definitely 3, by the way - with the kicker being the reference to

alstroemeria

, whom was yet to be mentioned. I read you as null because I was reading everyone as null. There is nothing upto #27 I consider indicative either way.

Okay I guess we both misunderstood? LOL. I just thought my RVS didn't really count as a "joke" scumread or whatever you want to read it as and so I just assumed you would imply that the people I scumread (and not the person I voted!) was scum.

Who would've thought that at the beginning of the game people joke around

Indeed.

you can see how it's bad and you should admit that.

To be clear - I do nothing of the sort.

Okay this was also sort of a wifom post to see your reaction to how well you took pressure early game. You took it well, unless this how you play good as scum. But I will give you towncreds for now as this post was not expected (yes, I expected a manipulative scummy post for some reason lol) but you did well responding to my points.

How well he took pressure? He just said his stuff wasn't serious? That get's town cred?

Look at the full context please. Smh. The answer you are looking for should be within the conversation. I will give you a hint; the reason relates to a misunderstanding we BOTH had. (I am assuming)

I don't like that this is his best answer. Where in the conversation is the answer? How is it supposed to be found? If the person asking the question was able to find it, don't you think they would've just... not asked the question?

i have no idea what you are referring to here. this is what happened in the interaction between me and james -- it seems like you are getting very over defensive as ur possible scum partner james. i already explained this multiple times. look at post 146 and the whole quote wall wit james initial reply and my justification as it wasn't that obvious. that context was obvious and town should have easily got it.

Spoiler:

Thanks for condensing everything a bit more, Zyla. I interpreted post 78 as a joke, kind of like someone who's never played chess saying they're undefeated in chess. To be honest, so far, the only post in VFP's ISO that I interpret as serious is 57, and I would be curious for more of their thoughts.

Also, I'm not going to quote it again, but here's my interpretation of GrandpaMo's post 87... I didn't totally follow the first sentence so it kind of starts from after that.
1) VFP's no-lim is NAI, so he thinks it is suspicious that you are scumreading them for it.
2) Everyone will eventually vote by the end of D1, including VFP, so stressing about the no-lim is pointless. So, he expected you to stop pushing the issue, but you didn't.
3) Pushing something that Mo thinks is NAI makes you suspicious a bit.

Now that I write it out like that it seems a little less compelling than it was in my head, to be honest, but that combined with the OMGUS still has you slightly on the red side for me. But I do agree that it's been confusing.

Yea, that's why I said bad reaction because it was a weird omgus.

I don't fully scumread you but you are like the only one who I see that could be possible scum.

Also I agree with T3 and I do think your introduction is actually towny.

You did hit all the parts right. That was the main reason but it's also the way she ended up going with the convo -- just seemed like a way for scum to, I don't know, maybe drive a possible condemn? See this is why I give them scumpings not a full scumread because they could defeinitly be town for initiating the scumread or this convo -- which is has to be found, a very towny thing to do. So if that is the case (which will need to be decided later) then yea there is a chance for her to flip town.

(I'm not entirely sure who the pronouns are referring to, but it doesn't really matter)
If Grandpa doesn't scumread someone, how are they possible scum? That just doesn't make sense, could be just bad logic though.

idk if you noticed, but i said "possible scum" this was still when i was debating if u were scum or possible misguided town then james came into play and just used my bias. james could just be using u as a utility to vote me. thats where my paranoia creeked in. i didnt have any scumreads at the moment, but you were the only one who has potential to be scum. keywords: fully (which implies scumlean) and possible (paranoia of null read) and i furhter exemplified this in a later read where i said you were null scum leaning.

Also, I very much dislike how James just left this conversation. This looks bad for you, James.

Scumreading someone for going to sleep is just.. bad.

Okay this post pissed me off. What?????!?!?

I am not even-

Like where were you in the last 10 pages???

Did you not see the full post for this?

Did you not see anything for this?

Why are just bringing this stuff up now??

You just look like a bit of flailing scum trying your best to drive any momentum on a vote on me?

I think also I will townlean you for not straight up finding scum between me and James. I feel like scum would just try to get an easy vote off me or James.

And then there's this. Why is he commenting saying that he's an easy vote?

because majority is on us or james?? This should have been obvious. You could have been confused, but you shouldn't be know. the two major bws was me and james, heck i even think i was at e-2. and i had the most votes on me. scum usually comes in after a replacement and decides to scumread the person wit the most votes well that is biased because it happened to me before lol in a pervious game.

but idk -- this should have been obvious to you. also it sounds like you could be manipulating this to make me look bad for only me? like you know i said easy vote off me OR james? not just me. why didn't you mention james??

POSSIBLE SCUMPARTNER???!?!?!?!?

we may never know:(

@zyla

[GrandpaMo]

VFP: who were you planning on voting for in 317?

I was.goibg to sheep and vote you.
Then I was going to vote Grampa but Grampa had to go before talking to me

so u vote zyla possible scum in ur eyes but vote me who also thinks zyla is possible scum? what?

[GrandpaMo]

Are you just attacking everyone now to put pressure off yourself?

In what sense?
I have Grampa as scum and I pushed T3 for the unvote.

this is town

[GrandpaMo]

this flip will tell us alot of info regardless of allignment.

What does it tell you each flip?

1. a james flip will tell the interactions between zyla. if james flips town ..... zyla is probably scum af

2. if james flips scum then, then me + alstro + val (possible bus from val tho) looks towny.

same with zyla and me.

[GrandpaMo]

okay ill try my best to digest this info because im confused? are you like tryna reiterate a scumcase on me?

Spoiler:

RVS sucks

True, but it's one of two options I know of to get the ball rolling. If you don't like RVS, how would you prefer town getting conversation going?

This is very very ironic because a No Lim has caused this conversation to get started and maybe get a read on you and maybe see interactions with other people. This is why I pointed you out earlier.

I lied.

Yes, I lied to you, it wasn't just because I pointed it out to say "it was funny", I pointed it out because I knew this was going to happen, and you weren't going to realize it after questioning hence why I had to lie so I can drop it off. But since, it has escalated ever since, the only reason this conversation happened was because VFP did a no lim. It's really NAI, and it seems like you are trying to set him up as scum for it. Yes, maybe he could be scum however, this is something more of NAI in my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a regard. Many people no lim on day 1 and many people vote on day 1.

We will all be voting regardless by day 1, so there is no point to continue this conversation. I thought you would stop because you would find it unnecessary and NAI to keep going about a specific vote, specifically a no lim.

But you didn't.

So I will give you scumpings for this. I don't fully scumread you because you initiating this conversation could be towny of you but the way you are handling it could be scummy of you if you understand.

"NAI, could be scum, don't read over this, stop the conversation"
To me this just seems absurd, he seems to go back and forth and back in a single post, and tries to suggest the conversation should just end, when so far it's been pretty productive and getting people to talk.

werent you the one who literally got on me for getting on a no lim vote being counterproductive??? and you even agreeed to that and that instantly contradicted your claim where you said "a no lim doesn't create any discussion x and x". very very hypocritcal. i don't go back and forth. alstro + me have gave you what that quote meant like 5 times already and you even came at an understanding later after i told you that i proposed a summary at the end in whcih you were like it wasn't a summary but alstro already had gave you the meaning and i agreeed. alstro hit almost spot on and i added to it. |: i rlly dont know why u are still bringing this up now.

Spoiler:

i don't know if you were serious at all

No, I wasn't.

and realized it was just a BS post to make it seem long, with no content providing and voting someone other than your scumread xD

Absolutely correct. It was a straight-forward RVS vote dressed up in the style of a serious wall post. You correctly identify the most obvious punchline there, but I dropped a few other things that should have made it clear it was entirely non-serious. I don't really claim to have invented the acronym 'WIFOM', to take another example. Of course, if it transpires that

MiniMegaByte

is scum, I reserve the right to imply I was in fact being serious and I knew from day one.

My post #27 was equally non-serious. Technically, reading you as null was serious, but the reasons equally BS. The clue there was the fact the that you HAD put your vote on one of the 3 - and Cook, MiniMegaByte and me are definitely 3, by the way - with the kicker being the reference to

alstroemeria

, whom was yet to be mentioned. I read you as null because I was reading everyone as null. There is nothing upto #27 I consider indicative either way.

Okay I guess we both misunderstood? LOL. I just thought my RVS didn't really count as a "joke" scumread or whatever you want to read it as and so I just assumed you would imply that the people I scumread (and not the person I voted!) was scum.

Who would've thought that at the beginning of the game people joke around

Indeed.

you can see how it's bad and you should admit that.

To be clear - I do nothing of the sort.

Okay this was also sort of a wifom post to see your reaction to how well you took pressure early game. You took it well, unless this how you play good as scum. But I will give you towncreds for now as this post was not expected (yes, I expected a manipulative scummy post for some reason lol) but you did well responding to my points.

How well he took pressure? He just said his stuff wasn't serious? That get's town cred?

Look at the full context please. Smh. The answer you are looking for should be within the conversation. I will give you a hint; the reason relates to a misunderstanding we BOTH had. (I am assuming)

I don't like that this is his best answer. Where in the conversation is the answer? How is it supposed to be found? If the person asking the question was able to find it, don't you think they would've just... not asked the question?

i have no idea what you are referring to here. this is what happened in the interaction between me and james -- it seems like you are getting very over defensive as ur possible scum partner james. i already explained this multiple times. look at post 146 and the whole quote wall wit james initial reply and my justification as it wasn't that obvious. that context was obvious and town should have easily got it.

Spoiler:

Thanks for condensing everything a bit more, Zyla. I interpreted post 78 as a joke, kind of like someone who's never played chess saying they're undefeated in chess. To be honest, so far, the only post in VFP's ISO that I interpret as serious is 57, and I would be curious for more of their thoughts.

Also, I'm not going to quote it again, but here's my interpretation of GrandpaMo's post 87... I didn't totally follow the first sentence so it kind of starts from after that.
1) VFP's no-lim is NAI, so he thinks it is suspicious that you are scumreading them for it.
2) Everyone will eventually vote by the end of D1, including VFP, so stressing about the no-lim is pointless. So, he expected you to stop pushing the issue, but you didn't.
3) Pushing something that Mo thinks is NAI makes you suspicious a bit.

Now that I write it out like that it seems a little less compelling than it was in my head, to be honest, but that combined with the OMGUS still has you slightly on the red side for me. But I do agree that it's been confusing.

Yea, that's why I said bad reaction because it was a weird omgus.

I don't fully scumread you but you are like the only one who I see that could be possible scum.

Also I agree with T3 and I do think your introduction is actually towny.

You did hit all the parts right. That was the main reason but it's also the way she ended up going with the convo -- just seemed like a way for scum to, I don't know, maybe drive a possible condemn? See this is why I give them scumpings not a full scumread because they could defeinitly be town for initiating the scumread or this convo -- which is has to be found, a very towny thing to do. So if that is the case (which will need to be decided later) then yea there is a chance for her to flip town.

(I'm not entirely sure who the pronouns are referring to, but it doesn't really matter)
If Grandpa doesn't scumread someone, how are they possible scum? That just doesn't make sense, could be just bad logic though.

idk if you noticed, but i said "possible scum" this was still when i was debating if u were scum or possible misguided town then james came into play and just used my bias. james could just be using u as a utility to vote me. thats where my paranoia creeked in. i didnt have any scumreads at the moment, but you were the only one who has potential to be scum. keywords: fully (which implies scumlean) and possible (paranoia of null read) and i furhter exemplified this in a later read where i said you were null scum leaning.

Also, I very much dislike how James just left this conversation. This looks bad for you, James.

Scumreading someone for going to sleep is just.. bad.

Okay this post pissed me off. What?????!?!?

I am not even-

Like where were you in the last 10 pages???

Did you not see the full post for this?

Did you not see anything for this?

Why are just bringing this stuff up now??

You just look like a bit of flailing scum trying your best to drive any momentum on a vote on me?

I think also I will townlean you for not straight up finding scum between me and James. I feel like scum would just try to get an easy vote off me or James.

And then there's this. Why is he commenting saying that he's an easy vote?

because majority is on us or james?? This should have been obvious. You could have been confused, but you shouldn't be know. the two major bws was me and james, heck i even think i was at e-2. and i had the most votes on me. scum usually comes in after a replacement and decides to scumread the person wit the most votes well that is biased because it happened to me before lol in a pervious game.

but idk -- this should have been obvious to you. also it sounds like you could be manipulating this to make me look bad for only me? like you know i said easy vote off me OR james? not just me. why didn't you mention james??

POSSIBLE SCUMPARTNER???!?!?!?!?

we may never know:(

u talking bout this? lol

[GrandpaMo]

1. a james flip will tell the interactions between zyla. if james flips town ..... zyla is probably scum af

2. if james flips scum then, then me + alstro + val (possible bus from val tho) looks towny.

same with zyla and me.

That's a fair way to see it.
I havent really interacted with James at all though, so a scum flip should put me in the PoE pool right?

no.

this is how i see it from my perspective.

im breaking down the game in three groups.

aggressors - val, alstro, NEE
defenders/semiaggressors (most attention) - me, james, zyla
laid backs - vfp, cook, and t3

this vote, in my opinion, won't have any affect on you.

i could lay a whole chart out explaining all the pushes ppl had on and give a more solid diagram but simply put any votes on the defenders would reflect info for the aggressors and the other defenders and won't hae any effect on the laid backs because they haven't contributed early game.

you, cook, and t3's allignment probably gets solved towards more end of the game where setup info is gained and player info is also acheived.

[GrandpaMo]

I don't see the reason for James scum either.
James looks town to me.

who do u think my partner is? if i were scum

[GrandpaMo]

UNVOTE: james

[GrandpaMo]

I don't see the reason for James scum either.
James looks town to me.

who do u think my partner is? if i were scum

I've addressed this.

im not even talking to u kiddo

[GrandpaMo]

I don't see the reason for James scum either.
James looks town to me.

who do u think my partner is? if i were scum

I guess Cook or T3.
But not really because you're scum... I'm just town reading alot of people.

hmm... this reminds me of the sitatuion in alien where you had to scumread someone because they were in deeepwolf. UR JUST GETTING REVENGE THATS WHY UR SCUMREADING ME LOL

dw tho im not actually scum this game.

i would scumreading u rn if i were honestly

[GrandpaMo]

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

[GrandpaMo]

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

[GrandpaMo]

btw this is in reference to post 337

[GrandpaMo]

you also pivoted ur vote from val to me. and this would have implied that you thought i was scummier. but still are bringing up the narrative that i could be scum wit val? so why pivot in the first place if there was a liable chance that i was scum wit val?

[GrandpaMo]

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

what does this mean? can you just answer my questions? wit yes or no

[GrandpaMo]

t3 the person who i scumread?

You scum read half the game

t3 the person who i scumread?

You scum read half the game

Doesn't Mo scumread half of the game?

wrong i said scum between james + zyla

and possible scumpartner t3, or cook

[GrandpaMo]

t3 the person who i scumread?

You scum read half the game

t3 the person who i scumread?

You scum read half the game

Doesn't Mo scumread half of the game?

wrong i said scum between james + zyla

and possible scumpartner t3, or cook

4 out of the 8 other people. So half.

can you stop deflecting me and answer me already?

[GrandpaMo]

you also pivoted ur vote from val to me. and this would have implied that you thought i was scummier. but still are bringing up the narrative that i could be scum wit val? so why pivot in the first place if there was a liable chance that i was scum wit val?

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

what does this mean? can you just answer my questions? wit yes or no

ill quote it again for u

[GrandpaMo]

top

[GrandpaMo]

wrong i said scum between james + zyla

and possible scumpartner t3, or cook

Thats still 4/8 though!
We both know giving multiple names as scum is a popular thing.

Scum have to keep options open after all.
But yeah, if you're scum you will do whatever we were talking about (I forget) with whatever it was!

i literally do this shit every game.

literally.

read.

my.

meta.

and stop assuming shit lmao

idk if u were joking or what -- but seems like you are pulling strings purposefully.

[GrandpaMo]

james wya?? it doesnt take u that long to answer an easy question ? did u disapear again

[GrandpaMo]

202
Just because it worked doesn't mean it was valid. If you got to a hammer or lose and chose someone to vote because their name had an 8 in it and you think 8 is unlucky, and it just so happens to hit scum, doesn't mean going off of the number in their name is valid.

210
Completely disingenuous, you know that's not why.

239
I can't read Zyla's mind: 184 is different than mine, there's the formal comment for my not-so-formal comment just prior.

240
Pocketing from 145 has been adressed.
Stop with the self meta.
The whole being inactive for a night has been dealt with.

254
Adressed.

275
Adressed.

Everything else as far as I can tell, is asking for me to respond, commenting on my lack of reponse, or it's answered in this or the earlier post.

I apologise for the lack of posting, I'd like to post more and I'm going to try to.

this is just a poor response.

i expected way better.

[GrandpaMo]

you haven't addressed anything.

nor have cleared up any points.

or just reiterating same bs that comes from scum mindset.

[GrandpaMo]

@vfp and u townread this man

smh.

just like look there iso vs mine.

[GrandpaMo]

honestly i just feel like im being fearkilled.

its okay tho alstro's the only one who actually can read the fucking game lol

and understand all of my response / quotes

[GrandpaMo]

james wya?? it doesnt take u that long to answer an easy question ? did u disapear again

yup. also don't give that "i was doing something" bs or any excuse. because you literally responded to me like way minutes later regarding me and VFP's interaction bout scumreading half of the game.

[GrandpaMo]

t3 the person who i scumread?

You scum read half the game

t3 the person who i scumread?

You scum read half the game

Doesn't Mo scumread half of the game?

wrong i said scum between james + zyla

and possible scumpartner t3, or cook

4 out of the 8 other people. So half.

this ^

[GrandpaMo]

so back to my unvote thing..

james i really tried to give you the benefit of the doubt because in my mind, i thought there was a chance you could have been town just incase i was just blindly tunneling u that sometimes i do by mistake.

and so i was just thinking about vfp's townread on you and everyone else's interaction wit u.

and i wanted you to answer questions regarding your inconsistency with your reads.

just to see how you viewved me + t3 differently than me + val.

but honestly, u never do.

u just always deflect, ignore, or find "meaningless" answers such as post 491 like wtf answer is that and what does that even mean.

i tried looking at you from a town perspective but i just can't see it -- everything alligns with you being town.

i will vote you back now unless someone has a pretty good towncase on you then my vote will stay on you.

VOTE: James[/uv]

pedit: this is exactly what i mean -- you still haven't answered shit. once again deflecting.

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: James woopsies

[GrandpaMo]

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

what does this mean? can you just answer my questions? wit yes or no

It means exactly what it says, it isn't that complicated. Spam posting the same thing for hundreds of posts doesn't make you town. Self meta to the extent you do it is scummy. You have no actual case against me that I haven't brought up. You unvote with no explanation.
You're scum. We go into Day 2 1 scum down.

to further analyze this -- its just you not answering a damn thing once again. you just have confirmation bias that you know for sure ill flip scum. if you are town -- ill probably say sum to u post game

[GrandpaMo]

okay ill try my best to digest this info because im confused? are you like tryna reiterate a scumcase on me?

Well, yes. NEE asked me to. Already addressed this in 355

-snip-
werent you the one who literally got on me for getting on a no lim vote being counterproductive??? and you even agreeed to that and that instantly contradicted your claim where you said "a no lim doesn't create any discussion x and x". very very hypocritcal. i don't go back and forth. alstro + me have gave you what that quote meant like 5 times already and you even came at an understanding later after i told you that i proposed a summary at the end in whcih you were like it wasn't a summary but alstro already had gave you the meaning and i agreeed. alstro hit almost spot on and i added to it. |: i rlly dont know why u are still bringing this up now.

I have no idea what this means, apologies, could you try to rephrase it and I'll answer it if I can?

Look at the full context please. Smh. The answer you are looking for should be within the conversation. I will give you a hint; the reason relates to a misunderstanding we BOTH had. (I am assuming)

I don't like that this is his best answer. Where in the conversation is the answer? How is it supposed to be found? If the person asking the question was able to find it, don't you think they would've just... not asked the question?

i have no idea what you are referring to here. this is what happened in the interaction between me and james -- it seems like you are getting very over defensive as ur possible scum partner james. i already explained this multiple times. look at post 146 and the whole quote wall wit james initial reply and my justification as it wasn't that obvious. that context was obvious and town should have easily got it.

This post wasn't about defending anyone, it was showing NEE my case against you. And I don't understand why you didn't simply.. give him the answer, or even point to the post that had it. Also, just because something is obvious to you does not make it obvious to everyone.

honestly just forget this ... i dont want my frustration to get in my reads against you...

idk if you noticed, but i said "possible scum" this was still when i was debating if u were scum or possible misguided town then james came into play and just used my bias. james could just be using u as a utility to vote me. thats where my paranoia creeked in. i didnt have any scumreads at the moment, but you were the only one who has potential to be scum. keywords: fully (which implies scumlean) and possible (paranoia of null read) and i furhter exemplified this in a later read where i said you were null scum leaning.

I addressed how I read this in 355

Also, I very much dislike how James just left this conversation. This looks bad for you, James.

Scumreading someone for going to sleep is just.. bad.

Spoiler:

Okay this post pissed me off. What?????!?!?

I am not even-

Like where were you in the last 10 pages???

Did you not see the full post for this?

Did you not see anything for this?

Why are just bringing this stuff up now??

You just look like a bit of flailing scum trying your best to drive any momentum on a vote on me?

I'm bringing it up because I was asked to

can you quote that?

Spoiler:

I think also I will townlean you for not straight up finding scum between me and James. I feel like scum would just try to get an easy vote off me or James.

And then there's this. Why is he commenting saying that he's an easy vote?

because majority is on us or james?? This should have been obvious. You could have been confused, but you shouldn't be know. the two major bws was me and james, heck i even think i was at e-2. and i had the most votes on me. scum usually comes in after a replacement and decides to scumread the person wit the most votes well that is biased because it happened to me before lol in a pervious game.

but idk -- this should have been obvious to you. also it sounds like you could be manipulating this to make me look bad for only me? like you know i said easy vote off me OR james? not just me. why didn't you mention james??

POSSIBLE SCUMPARTNER???!?!?!?!?

we may never know:(

Didn't mention James because I wasn't asked about James, also I don't think James called himself an easy vote

lol u are just making me look bad. go read the quote back again. i mentioned me and james. -- and how WE were easy vote for scum if we were both town.

[GrandpaMo]

so back to my unvote thing..

james i really tried to give you the benefit of the doubt because in my mind, i thought there was a chance you could have been town just incase i was just blindly tunneling u that sometimes i do by mistake.

and so i was just thinking about vfp's townread on you and everyone else's interaction wit u.

and i wanted you to answer questions regarding your inconsistency with your reads.

just to see how you viewved me + t3 differently than me + val.

but honestly, u never do.

u just always deflect, ignore, or find "meaningless" answers such as post 491 like wtf answer is that and what does that even mean.

i tried looking at you from a town perspective but i just can't see it -- everything alligns with you being town.

i will vote you back now unless someone has a pretty good towncase on you then my vote will stay on you.

VOTE: James[/uv]

pedit: this is exactly what i mean -- you still haven't answered shit. once again deflecting.

Post 491 reads:
I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

"I" in english refers to the first person, so JamesTheNames is saying this from their perspective.
"Think" comes from To Think meaning JamesTheNames had an idea in his head.
"It" refers to the idea of you bussing.
"Was" is the passed tense of be as you did it in the past.
"Intended" is a verb meaning you had justification behind an action
"as" is for a metaphor
"a" is a singular indirect pronoun for it
"back up" means a noun, similar to the idea of a Plan B
"because" meaning JamesTheNames was about to explain it.
"You" referring to you
"Were" referring to before you unvoted me?
"Confident" in your eyes you knew I was scum
"You"
"Could" had the ability to
"Get me hammered" kill me.

lol i dont think you are understanding me.

i will ask once again.

answer my question with a yes or no answer.

[GrandpaMo]

@Zyla @VPF @Val89 @NorweiganBoy @Cook @T3 @Astro @The person I accidentally forgot:
Thoughts on the nonsense of GrandpaMo unvoting me only to revote after asked about it?

? what i literally asked you.

and you still havent fucking addressed my other points??????

[GrandpaMo]

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

Yes, I do think t3 is more liable than Val to be your scumpartner because of x.
No, I do not think T3 is more liable than Val to be your scumpartner because of x.

do you think i would bus as scum here?

Yes, I would think you bus here because of x..
No, I would think you don't here because of x.

you also pivoted ur vote from val to me. and this would have implied that you thought i was scummier. but still are bringing up the narrative that i could be scum wit val? so why pivot in the first place if there was a liable chance that i was scum wit val?

And you haven't even addressed this. I am not looking for a no/yes answer for this. But why.

[GrandpaMo]

@Zyla @VPF @Val89 @NorweiganBoy @Cook @T3 @Astro @The person I accidentally forgot:
Thoughts on the nonsense of GrandpaMo unvoting me only to revote after asked about it?

? what i literally asked you.

and you still havent fucking addressed my other points??????

There's no need for getting angry or anything over this game. If I'm scum you have days to convince people. If you're scum just trying to get me hammered you have days to do it. I'm trying to enjoy this game just as much as you are.

What does this have to do with anything??

I am literally exposing you right now because you haven't answered jackshit LOL

you are so scum.

[GrandpaMo]

this is the real flailing scum

[GrandpaMo]

this is the real flailing scum

If 'this' is you, I can't help but agree

what?

how am i even flailing if i have literally backed james in a corner and all they can do is literally just use guily trip maniuplation on me from the rest of the town LOL
like pls


that is so scum.

they have still yet to answer my questions

[GrandpaMo]

honestly just forget this ... i dont want my frustration to get in my reads against you...

Hey, you brought this up

can you quote that?

Quote the fact that I was asked to make a read-post on you? I pointed you to that in my original response to this post in 355

lol u are just making me look bad. go read the quote back again. i mentioned me and james. -- and how WE were easy vote for scum if we were both town.

I'm not sure I see your point


Also, can you try and avoid doing the colored text in replies? It makes it harder to keep track of who's saying what, or

when

you're saying things, especially in long back and forths

1. yea idk .. i just.. man this game just frustrated me.

and i want to feel like your like your the misguided town unfort and james is the scum. one of u is misguided. but im certainly sure james is scum

2. okay thanks

3. what are you talking bout. just pls read -- its not that hard. look at my original quote that i had talked bout an easy vote. you have said that it was only talking bout me. which is plain wrong. i was talking bout me and JAMES. and how you didnt mention james but only me. and u responded wit it just being like i only said me. im the one who brought that point out. and now u are confused? whats there to be not to get. pls just read the original quote.

[GrandpaMo]

this is the real flailing scum

imagine if this post was referring to yourself

and realize how accurate that feels as well

VOTE: GrandpaMo

In my current solvestate, James or Mo goes today.

vote james then

[GrandpaMo]

Anyway, I was kind of writing that post to see if I could talk myself into a GrandpaMo case but I just can't do it with full confidence, though if it ultimately comes down to Grandpa vs James as it seems to be doing, I'd probably go with Grandpa... I would rather we spend the next (real-life) day or two pressuring a Cook or a VFP (one of Mo's "Laid backs" I think it was called), but it looks like the momentum isn't there at all

what? so u scumread me now?

didnt u like scumread james?

[GrandpaMo]

this game is so weird xD

[GrandpaMo]

nd im so confused atp just vote whoever atp

[GrandpaMo]

alas, things change

you literally agree wit me on every point with logic not even surrounding james. and even wit james you do agree wit me. but somehwo im still more scummier than james.

you might be scum then

[GrandpaMo]

alas, things change

you literally agree wit me on every point with logic not even surrounding james. and even wit james you do agree wit me. but somehwo im still more scummier than james.

you might be scum then

also don't like with this.

there is literally posts with u admitting that.

[GrandpaMo]

James answered our concern to my more-or-less satisfaction, at least relative to other people, awhile ago, but you seem to keep insisting he hasn't

where r u ? he still hasnt answered anything. im literally quoting where he hasnt

[GrandpaMo]

Nice try but I don't agree with you on every point. If you go through my ISO I have been hesitant on James since the 300s culminating in my unvote back on 368.

So I'm scum again because I don't like you as much anymore? Cool cool.

do u think we could be tvt?

[GrandpaMo]

I have to say that recent posting by Grandpa is also starting to give me the creeps. He is so desperate to come off as town it's unreal.

The only thing that is giving me pause is that I can't believe if it is scum!Grandpa; then his partner hasn't already told him to knock it off already before he throws the game.

i dare u too look at my town performance in the newbie game i was town vs scum performance in the first time i was scum and compare to this game. likepls.

see any differences/ similarities

[GrandpaMo]

I have to say that recent posting by Grandpa is also starting to give me the creeps. He is so desperate to come off as town it's unreal.

The only thing that is giving me pause is that I can't believe if it is scum!Grandpa; then his partner hasn't already told him to knock it off already before he throws the game.

like i deadass gave up 10 posts ago. and its not worth my town to keep going back and forth wit someone who is always ignorning / deflecting.

[GrandpaMo]

James answered our concern to my more-or-less satisfaction, at least relative to other people, awhile ago, but you seem to keep insisting he hasn't

Listen, folks, I've spent the last hour-and-a-half trying to relook at James with fresh eyes. It appears at this point that Grandpa is the only other person onboard with James-as-scum, and I get the impression over the last 2 or 3 pages that some of the posts he has been doing seem to be aimed at linking me and him together, which is starting to give me pings that perhaps I can't trust his judgement on it.

I'm saying to myself "Come on, you are 99% sure James is scum at this point, and you've been at-least fairly sure of it since Friday. Nobody else seems to be agreeing with you at this point, apart from a possible scum; and everyone else seems to agree {Grandpa, James} is never going to be a thing, so maybe time to look again, eh?"

So, I decided to challenge myself to come up with a town-case for James, just privately for now, trying to forget my pre-convinced ideas, bearing in mind what Norwee has said - and I'm sorry, but I just can't do it. I can't generate any case for myself to say Town!James, and I'm worried, because I can do it to some degree or another for every other player in the game; even Cook, who has made almost zero contributions thus far.

Please, help me out here, has

anyone

got a case for a town James that goes further than "Meh, seems town to me; you might understand better when you aren't a newb"? Please and thank you.

thats what i tried doing too :/

nd it didnt workout -- just recieved "backlash for it"

[GrandpaMo]

James answered our concern to my more-or-less satisfaction, at least relative to other people, awhile ago, but you seem to keep insisting he hasn't

where r u ? he still hasnt answered anything. im literally quoting where he hasnt

looking at the combined ISOs of Grandpa+James he's acknowledged everything reasonable. It's debatable if the answers are enough to throw off suspicion but it's pretty quickly devolved into you just quoting yourself with things that have already been answered and then just being derisive.

do u think we could be tvt?

Potentially! The only scenario I'm ruling out entirely is SvS because I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have gotten this far. It's early enough in the game that we could all be barking up completely the wrong tree. Like VFP alluded to awhile back (yes, I know VFP isn't looking great but I agree with this sentiment in particular), a lot of Day 1 is reaching around and hoping something will stick, since we don't have much to go on. However...

I have to say that recent posting by Grandpa is also starting to give me the creeps.

^this

nah he didnt m8 :/ let me quote it for u

[GrandpaMo]

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

Yes, I do think t3 is more liable than Val to be your scumpartner because of x.
No, I do not think T3 is more liable than Val to be your scumpartner because of x.

do you think i would bus as scum here?

Yes, I would think you bus here because of x..
No, I would think you don't here because of x.

you also pivoted ur vote from val to me. and this would have implied that you thought i was scummier. but still are bringing up the narrative that i could be scum wit val? so why pivot in the first place if there was a liable chance that i was scum wit val?

And you haven't even addressed this. I am not looking for a no/yes answer for this. But why.

can you find reasons for this? no you can't. never has answered anything.

[GrandpaMo]

pls alstro. pls for the sake of possible town!james. list out everything james has done that was a "a good response" to what was tryna be addressed?

[GrandpaMo]

202
Just because it worked doesn't mean it was valid. If you got to a hammer or lose and chose someone to vote because their name had an 8 in it and you think 8 is unlucky, and it just so happens to hit scum, doesn't mean going off of the number in their name is valid.

210
Completely disingenuous, you know that's not why.

239
I can't read Zyla's mind: 184 is different than mine, there's the formal comment for my not-so-formal comment just prior.

240
Pocketing from 145 has been adressed.
Stop with the self meta.
The whole being inactive for a night has been dealt with.

254
Adressed.

275
Adressed.

Everything else as far as I can tell, is asking for me to respond, commenting on my lack of reponse, or it's answered in this or the earlier post.

I apologise for the lack of posting, I'd like to post more and I'm going to try to.

this is just a poor response.

i expected way better.

like really?? this comes from town??

[GrandpaMo]

TR VFP
SL James
SR GrandpaMo, Val89, MiniMegabyte

VOTE: VFP

i'm alright with this

TR VFP
SL James
SR GrandpaMo, Val89, MiniMegabyte

i forgot u were someone in this game

can u explain ur reads?

I modded for Scum!VFP. Play here isn't indicative of that play there.
At the time, JamesTheNames gave me

vibes

of scumminess, same with Mo and Val.

Low content and in a quick burst from MM.

thats what i tried doing too :/

nd it didnt workout -- just recieved "backlash for it"

No, listen, Grandpa, I don't mean to be rude, but that's clearly not what you have done - you've just reiterated a

Scum

case on James and I want to hear a

Town

case on James. Frankly, unless you are going to start posting reasons why you think James could actually be town - in such a way that I'll be able to follow them - yours is only opinion I don't want right now. I've got myself here by trying to game out a Scum!Grandpa.

Maybe you pay a little more attention to a post when you see your name in it, but I've started to notice you've been pushing the idea of a {Val, James} scum pair as early as #268, something you've brought up again today in #465, and you seem desperate to get feedback from the other players as to how far that idea has started to implant. It feels a bit like you are starting to try and set me up for the D2 lim, knowing that James is going to flip red today. I know I then have to read you and James as scum v scum and I'm struggling to see that right now, but I'm not seeing an alternative.

Then again, t3 says trying to link people together and set up for the elimination the next day in something town!Grandpa does; so I don't fully know where I am at. Regardless, I want to hear from others now on James.

i think ur town imo

[GrandpaMo]

didnt meant to multiquote

[GrandpaMo]

With grandpa in the game the postcount goes up and up and up and up....

sorry, ill just stop talking for now...

i think its best for town

[GrandpaMo]

Alright. Gonna put the money where my mouth is.
VOTE: GrandpaMo

but didnt u scumread..?

this vote literally makes no sense.

lol

final reads. nee is town.

alstro is town.

val is probably town.

james is scum

nyla is town.

t3 / vfp (one of them is scum)

there is a chance nyla isnt misguided and actually scum -- but i dont think they would go out there way to play like that.

just follow this voting pattern and town should win: james >>> t3 >>> zyla >> vfp

[GrandpaMo]

hammer me already

[GrandpaMo]

because obviously we are going to let someone who went gone by this hammer -- and still have never addressed / said anything about my points or actually anyone's points.

alstro -- you just keep finding ways to keep stalling time and its honestly weird. you could still just be town doing this tho without intent for malicious actions to just stall around a hammer.

[GrandpaMo]

i do agree -- i did play bad as town as this game. and i learned a lot. i probably will be signing up for newbie quenues more often so i can adapt a playstyle that doesn't affect town's progression.

but i believe in town. i think a vote on me, james, zyla is good for day 1 just to progress.

i would hammer myself -- but someone did that in another open game and everyone got mad at them. so ill just wait a hammer on me.

[GrandpaMo]

Are you claiming VT?

yea i am

[GrandpaMo]

t3 and vfp if yall are town. i believe in yall

good luck

[GrandpaMo]

i mean i kinda still dont want yall to hammer just in case james could speak more when they are avaailable so yall could solve their allignment tmr -- as well as zyla.

[GrandpaMo]

i would hammer myself -- but someone did that in another open game and everyone got mad at them. so ill just wait a hammer on me.

Why would you hammer yourself?

cuz there is no reason for to unvote now. since i am just vt -- its optimal for town to vote me. both scum+ town advantage well mostly scum if i flip town in which i will .

it doesn't change the fact if i dont hammer myself -- i still will get a hammer on me regardless.

for example, zyla will hammer me

[GrandpaMo]

i played poorly as town this game and honestly it just upsets me.

i apologize to anyone i made uncomfortable or the game unenjoyable

[GrandpaMo]

I feel like if you're town Grampa, we actually have similar way of thinking.

ig yea? intiuitave thought? but in the last game i played wit u where u were scum, u pocketed me and it just turned out that i was just townreading u wrong af

i was like we were having the same thoughts and stuff but turned out i was wrong and u were actually scum lol

[GrandpaMo]

I feel like if you're town Grampa, we actually have similar way of thinking.

ig yea? intiuitave thought? but in the last game i played wit u where u were scum, u pocketed me and it just turned out that i was just townreading u wrong af

i was like we were having the same thoughts and stuff but turned out i was wrong and u were actually scum lol

What game was I scum for you?

wait i think i was thinking bout flow trap not vfp

i always get yall mixed up

i even mentioned this in thishttps://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=86537

[GrandpaMo]

I've never been scum to Grampa and neither have I ever pocketed them!
It's emotional blackmail! That's what it is!

sorry ^

[GrandpaMo]

I mean you should never want to hammer yourself here, ever. Town or scum. So it really just pings me negatively everytime that line comes from an almost dead player as it’s a pretty strong way to LAMIST by saying you’d do something you never intend to do.

what? do you want me to do it then?

[GrandpaMo]

I feel like I can make a case for myself for scum James or scum Grandpa but not both at the same time so I'm in a bit of a pickle

Which of us do you have a stronger town case for?

are you going to ignore me?

[GrandpaMo]

or r u looking back now*^

[GrandpaMo]

or r u looking back now*^

Have some patience I'm reading the last few pages.

yeae thats what im asking

sorry

[GrandpaMo]

Spoiler:

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

what does this mean? can you just answer my questions? wit yes or no

t3 the person who i scumread?

You scum read half the game

t3 the person who i scumread?

You scum read half the game

Doesn't Mo scumread half of the game?

wrong i said scum between james + zyla

and possible scumpartner t3, or cook

4 out of the 8 other people. So half.

can you stop deflecting me and answer me already?

you also pivoted ur vote from val to me. and this would have implied that you thought i was scummier. but still are bringing up the narrative that i could be scum wit val? so why pivot in the first place if there was a liable chance that i was scum wit val?

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

what does this mean? can you just answer my questions? wit yes or no

ill quote it again for u

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

what does this mean? can you just answer my questions? wit yes or no

It means exactly what it says, it isn't that complicated. Spam posting the same thing for hundreds of posts doesn't make you town. Self meta to the extent you do it is scummy. You have no actual case against me that I haven't brought up. You unvote with no explanation.
You're scum. We go into Day 2 1 scum down.

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

what does this mean? can you just answer my questions? wit yes or no

It means exactly what it says, it isn't that complicated. Spam posting the same thing for hundreds of posts doesn't make you town. Self meta to the extent you do it is scummy. You have no actual case against me that I haven't brought up. You unvote with no explanation.
You're scum. We go into Day 2 1 scum down.

to further analyze this -- its just you not answering a damn thing once again. you just have confirmation bias that you know for sure ill flip scum. if you are town -- ill probably say sum to u post game

so back to my unvote thing..

james i really tried to give you the benefit of the doubt because in my mind, i thought there was a chance you could have been town just incase i was just blindly tunneling u that sometimes i do by mistake.

and so i was just thinking about vfp's townread on you and everyone else's interaction wit u.

and i wanted you to answer questions regarding your inconsistency with your reads.

just to see how you viewved me + t3 differently than me + val.

but honestly, u never do.

u just always deflect, ignore, or find "meaningless" answers such as post 491 like wtf answer is that and what does that even mean.

i tried looking at you from a town perspective but i just can't see it -- everything alligns with you being town.

i will vote you back now unless someone has a pretty good towncase on you then my vote will stay on you.

VOTE: James[/uv]

pedit: this is exactly what i mean -- you still haven't answered shit. once again deflecting.

Post 491 reads:
I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

"I" in english refers to the first person, so JamesTheNames is saying this from their perspective.
"Think" comes from To Think meaning JamesTheNames had an idea in his head.
"It" refers to the idea of you bussing.
"Was" is the passed tense of be as you did it in the past.
"Intended" is a verb meaning you had justification behind an action
"as" is for a metaphor
"a" is a singular indirect pronoun for it
"back up" means a noun, similar to the idea of a Plan B
"because" meaning JamesTheNames was about to explain it.
"You" referring to you
"Were" referring to before you unvoted me?
"Confident" in your eyes you knew I was scum
"You"
"Could" had the ability to
"Get me hammered" kill me.

so back to my unvote thing..

james i really tried to give you the benefit of the doubt because in my mind, i thought there was a chance you could have been town just incase i was just blindly tunneling u that sometimes i do by mistake.

and so i was just thinking about vfp's townread on you and everyone else's interaction wit u.

and i wanted you to answer questions regarding your inconsistency with your reads.

just to see how you viewved me + t3 differently than me + val.

but honestly, u never do.

u just always deflect, ignore, or find "meaningless" answers such as post 491 like wtf answer is that and what does that even mean.

i tried looking at you from a town perspective but i just can't see it -- everything alligns with you being town.

i will vote you back now unless someone has a pretty good towncase on you then my vote will stay on you.

VOTE: James[/uv]

pedit: this is exactly what i mean -- you still haven't answered shit. once again deflecting.

Post 491 reads:
I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

"I" in english refers to the first person, so JamesTheNames is saying this from their perspective.
"Think" comes from To Think meaning JamesTheNames had an idea in his head.
"It" refers to the idea of you bussing.
"Was" is the passed tense of be as you did it in the past.
"Intended" is a verb meaning you had justification behind an action
"as" is for a metaphor
"a" is a singular indirect pronoun for it
"back up" means a noun, similar to the idea of a Plan B
"because" meaning JamesTheNames was about to explain it.
"You" referring to you
"Were" referring to before you unvoted me?
"Confident" in your eyes you knew I was scum
"You"
"Could" had the ability to
"Get me hammered" kill me.

lol i dont think you are understanding me.

i will ask once again.

answer my question with a yes or no answer.

I'm not wasting my time responding until you actually have a case against me I haven't addressed.

@Zyla @VPF @Val89 @NorweiganBoy @Cook @T3 @Astro @The person I accidentally forgot:
Thoughts on the nonsense of GrandpaMo unvoting me only to revote after asked about it?

? what i literally asked you.

and you still havent fucking addressed my other points??????

@Zyla @VPF @Val89 @NorweiganBoy @Cook @T3 @Astro @The person I accidentally forgot:
Thoughts on the nonsense of GrandpaMo unvoting me only to revote after asked about it?

? what i literally asked you.

and you still havent fucking addressed my other points??????

There's no need for getting angry or anything over this game. If I'm scum you have days to convince people. If you're scum just trying to get me hammered you have days to do it. I'm trying to enjoy this game just as much as you are.

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

Yes, I do think t3 is more liable than Val to be your scumpartner because of x.
No, I do not think T3 is more liable than Val to be your scumpartner because of x.

do you think i would bus as scum here?

Yes, I would think you bus here because of x..
No, I would think you don't here because of x.

you also pivoted ur vote from val to me. and this would have implied that you thought i was scummier. but still are bringing up the narrative that i could be scum wit val? so why pivot in the first place if there was a liable chance that i was scum wit val?

And you haven't even addressed this. I am not looking for a no/yes answer for this. But why.

@alstro did u literlaly miss this whole interaction?

[GrandpaMo]

you also pivoted ur vote from val to me. and this would have implied that you thought i was scummier. but still are bringing up the narrative that i could be scum wit val? so why pivot in the first place if there was a liable chance that i was scum wit val?

I thought you were scummier. Would you not vote somebody you thought was scummier than someone else?

yea but the problem wit that is that you never have to seem to pair me up wit val if i were scum -- this inconsistency with me being more scummier than val, then assuming t3 or cook could be my partner (someone who wasn't val i forgot) but you haven't provided a case on neither besides val in which you pivoted ur vote off from. so either this seems like a really really basic scum excuse where you just wanted to pivot onto me because i was already in a hot spot.

and that is what im trying understand.

i am still waiting for ur other answer.

[GrandpaMo]

@ Grandpa
Yeah, but like you said, the answer James gave was "it was a back up" which is different than "t3 is more/less likely than Val"

yeai was showing u how they have been deflecting etc

[GrandpaMo]

like heck everytime vfp comes into play -- james gets distracted.

for example that interation wit me and vfp where we was talking bout me on how i scumread half of the game -- instead of answering the questions geninuely, james seems to ignore it and disappears everytime gets pressured. this occures mutliple times throughout the game -- and i give guiding points if u wnat

[GrandpaMo]

So I knew I remembered Grampa playing like this before.

so pls explain to me, why the all sudden change. oh i bet you wont answer this question too like all the other questions you have ignorned or deflected. that has cause the anti town behavior in you to shine.

In this game Grampa was scum and basically did the same here with a lot of posts saying that someone won't answer or doing the same as telling someone to answer when they had.
The entire game Grampa just pushed T3, and kept calling me town with sprinkles of shade on me. Also kept shading other players.

If.you have some time it's worth reading Gramps's ISO because the play is very much the same.
I thought I re called Grampa saying about someone should know their town game but I couldn't find it and I'm not on my PC for look it up.

what game r u even talking bout here?? can you quote specific posts from that game???

there has been only ONE time I was scum.

[GrandpaMo]

Grandpa is town.

Okay I retract my scumread on T3. I doubt scum!t3 would just call me town here.

Scum!t3 would call me scum -- and find a reason to vote me since I am already on e-1.

Especially considering I have played with t3 -- I know t3 plays towny when they become inconsistent with early game to eod.

[GrandpaMo]

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

Yes, I do think t3 is more liable than Val to be your scumpartner because of x.
No, I do not think T3 is more liable than Val to be your scumpartner because of x.

do you think i would bus as scum here?

Yes, I would think you bus here because of x..
No, I would think you don't here because of x.

@James, this is one that I couldn't find an answer for and I would be curious about when you get to it!

Yes t3 who you scumread. One of half of the game which you "scumread".
First Part

Yes

If I had to say at gun point, probably Val89 or TF3, considering the really unnatural pocketing you did, it also doesn't have to be for reasons of: "let me pocket you so we can hammer James". It could just be used for later on. Regarding you're 219, surely the opposite is true also? Just because they agree with you doesn't make them town, even more reason which you've provided yourself as to how nonsense your early town cred giving to Val89 was. That's the only interaction I've seen including you which could harbour a scum pair. I don't get why you'd actually pocket a scum team though, or assign town cred to a scum partner over something like that. For TF3, 288 makes 0 sense to me, there is no chance this game is exactly the same as the previous one you were in, you had your points and opinions then you discredited them really randomly.

Ergo probably T3.

Second Part

Yes

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

The first part has been answered. Post: 337
The second part has been answered. Post: 491

You finally respond after 100 posts later.

[GrandpaMo]

Grampa is just scum here.
Look at the change of attitude from being E1 to now.

It was a panic emotional blackmail attempt. As soon as it looks like someone is fighting his corner, the confidence starts to come out with just shade.
Scum shade, let's not forget this.

wdym panic ??? i fucking gave up on convincing town when i said i didnt wanna talk anymore. you are maniuplating this into where i am scum for it? i was upset at that time and my geninune frustration just failed me atp.

[GrandpaMo]

So I knew I remembered Grampa playing like this before.

so pls explain to me, why the all sudden change. oh i bet you wont answer this question too like all the other questions you have ignorned or deflected. that has cause the anti town behavior in you to shine.

In this game Grampa was scum and basically did the same here with a lot of posts saying that someone won't answer or doing the same as telling someone to answer when they had.
The entire game Grampa just pushed T3, and kept calling me town with sprinkles of shade on me. Also kept shading other players.

If.you have some time it's worth reading Gramps's ISO because the play is very much the same.
I thought I re called Grampa saying about someone should know their town game but I couldn't find it and I'm not on my PC for look it up.

To be actually more exact, you are correct -- sorta.

I pushed T3 all day, day 1 and hard defended my mafia partner while everyone was going at them + my mafia partner busses them. I even go out and tryhard to defend it so I could use it wifom for day 2 and say that "if i were scum, why wouldn't I have bus there" I used that to my advantage and became one of your deep wolfs.

[GrandpaMo]

james

Grampa

seems to ignore it and

disappears

everytime gets pressured.

Fixed.

this is wrong and you know this is wrong. look at this game thread from the times where i questioned james in the beginning till now -- and everytime a me vs james sitaution happened -- who ended up disappearing?

james. its not that hard to anaylyze if u look back at the game

[GrandpaMo]

Grampa you need to make your mind up if I'm scum or not.
You try to pull at my heart strings, don't get the result and shade me as scum.

I'm okay if you want to say I'm scum, but let's not do the little dance!

You talk about James ignoring your questions.
I'm yet to receive answers from you.

i litearlly have called u town multiple times -- what r u talking bout

i literally still townread u so hard.

i have pointed out multiple times that i townread you. even tho ur wrong on me -- i will not let that get besides me and make me blind that you could just be town doing this.

[GrandpaMo]

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

Yes, I do think t3 is more liable than Val to be your scumpartner because of x.
No, I do not think T3 is more liable than Val to be your scumpartner because of x.

do you think i would bus as scum here?

Yes, I would think you bus here because of x..
No, I would think you don't here because of x.

@James, this is one that I couldn't find an answer for and I would be curious about when you get to it!

Yes t3 who you scumread. One of half of the game which you "scumread".
First Part

Yes

If I had to say at gun point, probably Val89 or TF3, considering the really unnatural pocketing you did, it also doesn't have to be for reasons of: "let me pocket you so we can hammer James". It could just be used for later on. Regarding you're 219, surely the opposite is true also? Just because they agree with you doesn't make them town, even more reason which you've provided yourself as to how nonsense your early town cred giving to Val89 was. That's the only interaction I've seen including you which could harbour a scum pair. I don't get why you'd actually pocket a scum team though, or assign town cred to a scum partner over something like that. For TF3, 288 makes 0 sense to me, there is no chance this game is exactly the same as the previous one you were in, you had your points and opinions then you discredited them really randomly.

Ergo probably T3.

Second Part

Yes

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

The first part has been answered. Post: 337
The second part has been answered. Post: 491

You finally respond after 100 posts later.

I don't know if maths is taught in the east coast of America but 337 is 134 less than 571, and 491 is 80 less. Even the average is 107, so you're 100 posts in the wrong direction, I responded a long time ago but you ignored it.

it was a hyperbole. and no u didnt respond -- u responded with something wit no meaning even alstro questioned it and u didnt even mind to notice this.

[GrandpaMo]

Spoiler:

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

what does this mean? can you just answer my questions? wit yes or no

t3 the person who i scumread?

You scum read half the game

t3 the person who i scumread?

You scum read half the game

Doesn't Mo scumread half of the game?

wrong i said scum between james + zyla

and possible scumpartner t3, or cook

4 out of the 8 other people. So half.

can you stop deflecting me and answer me already?

you also pivoted ur vote from val to me. and this would have implied that you thought i was scummier. but still are bringing up the narrative that i could be scum wit val? so why pivot in the first place if there was a liable chance that i was scum wit val?

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

what does this mean? can you just answer my questions? wit yes or no

ill quote it again for u

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

what does this mean? can you just answer my questions? wit yes or no

It means exactly what it says, it isn't that complicated. Spam posting the same thing for hundreds of posts doesn't make you town. Self meta to the extent you do it is scummy. You have no actual case against me that I haven't brought up. You unvote with no explanation.
You're scum. We go into Day 2 1 scum down.

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

what does this mean? can you just answer my questions? wit yes or no

It means exactly what it says, it isn't that complicated. Spam posting the same thing for hundreds of posts doesn't make you town. Self meta to the extent you do it is scummy. You have no actual case against me that I haven't brought up. You unvote with no explanation.
You're scum. We go into Day 2 1 scum down.

to further analyze this -- its just you not answering a damn thing once again. you just have confirmation bias that you know for sure ill flip scum. if you are town -- ill probably say sum to u post game

so back to my unvote thing..

james i really tried to give you the benefit of the doubt because in my mind, i thought there was a chance you could have been town just incase i was just blindly tunneling u that sometimes i do by mistake.

and so i was just thinking about vfp's townread on you and everyone else's interaction wit u.

and i wanted you to answer questions regarding your inconsistency with your reads.

just to see how you viewved me + t3 differently than me + val.

but honestly, u never do.

u just always deflect, ignore, or find "meaningless" answers such as post 491 like wtf answer is that and what does that even mean.

i tried looking at you from a town perspective but i just can't see it -- everything alligns with you being town.

i will vote you back now unless someone has a pretty good towncase on you then my vote will stay on you.

VOTE: James[/uv]

pedit: this is exactly what i mean -- you still haven't answered shit. once again deflecting.

Post 491 reads:
I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

"I" in english refers to the first person, so JamesTheNames is saying this from their perspective.
"Think" comes from To Think meaning JamesTheNames had an idea in his head.
"It" refers to the idea of you bussing.
"Was" is the passed tense of be as you did it in the past.
"Intended" is a verb meaning you had justification behind an action
"as" is for a metaphor
"a" is a singular indirect pronoun for it
"back up" means a noun, similar to the idea of a Plan B
"because" meaning JamesTheNames was about to explain it.
"You" referring to you
"Were" referring to before you unvoted me?
"Confident" in your eyes you knew I was scum
"You"
"Could" had the ability to
"Get me hammered" kill me.

so back to my unvote thing..

james i really tried to give you the benefit of the doubt because in my mind, i thought there was a chance you could have been town just incase i was just blindly tunneling u that sometimes i do by mistake.

and so i was just thinking about vfp's townread on you and everyone else's interaction wit u.

and i wanted you to answer questions regarding your inconsistency with your reads.

just to see how you viewved me + t3 differently than me + val.

but honestly, u never do.

u just always deflect, ignore, or find "meaningless" answers such as post 491 like wtf answer is that and what does that even mean.

i tried looking at you from a town perspective but i just can't see it -- everything alligns with you being town.

i will vote you back now unless someone has a pretty good towncase on you then my vote will stay on you.

VOTE: James[/uv]

pedit: this is exactly what i mean -- you still haven't answered shit. once again deflecting.

Post 491 reads:
I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

"I" in english refers to the first person, so JamesTheNames is saying this from their perspective.
"Think" comes from To Think meaning JamesTheNames had an idea in his head.
"It" refers to the idea of you bussing.
"Was" is the passed tense of be as you did it in the past.
"Intended" is a verb meaning you had justification behind an action
"as" is for a metaphor
"a" is a singular indirect pronoun for it
"back up" means a noun, similar to the idea of a Plan B
"because" meaning JamesTheNames was about to explain it.
"You" referring to you
"Were" referring to before you unvoted me?
"Confident" in your eyes you knew I was scum
"You"
"Could" had the ability to
"Get me hammered" kill me.

lol i dont think you are understanding me.

i will ask once again.

answer my question with a yes or no answer.

I'm not wasting my time responding until you actually have a case against me I haven't addressed.

@Zyla @VPF @Val89 @NorweiganBoy @Cook @T3 @Astro @The person I accidentally forgot:
Thoughts on the nonsense of GrandpaMo unvoting me only to revote after asked about it?

? what i literally asked you.

and you still havent fucking addressed my other points??????

@Zyla @VPF @Val89 @NorweiganBoy @Cook @T3 @Astro @The person I accidentally forgot:
Thoughts on the nonsense of GrandpaMo unvoting me only to revote after asked about it?

? what i literally asked you.

and you still havent fucking addressed my other points??????

There's no need for getting angry or anything over this game. If I'm scum you have days to convince people. If you're scum just trying to get me hammered you have days to do it. I'm trying to enjoy this game just as much as you are.

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

Yes, I do think t3 is more liable than Val to be your scumpartner because of x.
No, I do not think T3 is more liable than Val to be your scumpartner because of x.

do you think i would bus as scum here?

Yes, I would think you bus here because of x..
No, I would think you don't here because of x.

you also pivoted ur vote from val to me. and this would have implied that you thought i was scummier. but still are bringing up the narrative that i could be scum wit val? so why pivot in the first place if there was a liable chance that i was scum wit val?

And you haven't even addressed this. I am not looking for a no/yes answer for this. But why.

@alstro did u literlaly miss this whole interaction?

@james wanna take a look?

[GrandpaMo]

let me hear those farfetched bs reasons once again

Since this was at me.
Can you explain this part?
Where have I had farfetched bullshit reasons on anyone?

Also, I've never played with town you, Grampa? Other than a game I replaced into where you were dead.
Why should I know this is town you?

Since you are talking about people ignoring you Grampa.
You haven't answered these yet.

i have not seen these actually

[GrandpaMo]

let me hear those farfetched bs reasons once again

Since this was at me.
Can you explain this part?
Where have I had farfetched bullshit reasons on anyone?

this is where i was just frustrated at people like you and cook where they would they im scum and then literally provide no reason -- or really weak reasoning

Also, I've never played with town you, Grampa? Other than a game I replaced into where you were dead.
Why should I know this is town you?

since you say meta is a good tool to use then i suggest you use it -- you will see more similarities of my town pov than scum pov from my newbie game and not the aliensitter needed game where there were 3 scum instead of 2

Since you are talking about people ignoring you Grampa.
You haven't answered these yet.

i have not seen these actually

[GrandpaMo]

Grampa you need to make your mind up if I'm scum or not.
You try to pull at my heart strings, don't get the result and shade me as scum.

I'm okay if you want to say I'm scum, but let's not do the little dance!

You talk about James ignoring your questions.
I'm yet to receive answers from you.

i litearlly have called u town multiple times -- what r u talking bout

i literally still townread u so hard.

i have pointed out multiple times that i townread you. even tho ur wrong on me -- i will not let that get besides me and make me blind that you could just be town doing this.

t3 / vfp (one of them is scum)

werent u the one who changed from val to me? i cant change my reads? there was a post later than 580 sum talking bout how i townread vfp now.

and i think vfp is town . what r u tryna get at here?

[GrandpaMo]

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

Yes, I do think t3 is more liable than Val to be your scumpartner because of x.
No, I do not think T3 is more liable than Val to be your scumpartner because of x.

do you think i would bus as scum here?

Yes, I would think you bus here because of x..
No, I would think you don't here because of x.

@James, this is one that I couldn't find an answer for and I would be curious about when you get to it!

Yes t3 who you scumread. One of half of the game which you "scumread".
First Part

Yes

If I had to say at gun point, probably Val89 or TF3, considering the really unnatural pocketing you did, it also doesn't have to be for reasons of: "let me pocket you so we can hammer James". It could just be used for later on. Regarding you're 219, surely the opposite is true also? Just because they agree with you doesn't make them town, even more reason which you've provided yourself as to how nonsense your early town cred giving to Val89 was. That's the only interaction I've seen including you which could harbour a scum pair. I don't get why you'd actually pocket a scum team though, or assign town cred to a scum partner over something like that. For TF3, 288 makes 0 sense to me, there is no chance this game is exactly the same as the previous one you were in, you had your points and opinions then you discredited them really randomly.

Ergo probably T3.

Second Part

Yes

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

The first part has been answered. Post: 337
The second part has been answered. Post: 491

You finally respond after 100 posts later.

I don't know if maths is taught in the east coast of America but 337 is 134 less than 571, and 491 is 80 less. Even the average is 107, so you're 100 posts in the wrong direction, I responded a long time ago but you ignored it.

it was a hyperbole. and no u didnt respond -- u responded with something wit no meaning even alstro questioned it and u didnt even mind to notice this.

Spoiler:

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

what does this mean? can you just answer my questions? wit yes or no

t3 the person who i scumread?

You scum read half the game

t3 the person who i scumread?

You scum read half the game

Doesn't Mo scumread half of the game?

wrong i said scum between james + zyla

and possible scumpartner t3, or cook

4 out of the 8 other people. So half.

can you stop deflecting me and answer me already?

you also pivoted ur vote from val to me. and this would have implied that you thought i was scummier. but still are bringing up the narrative that i could be scum wit val? so why pivot in the first place if there was a liable chance that i was scum wit val?

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

what does this mean? can you just answer my questions? wit yes or no

ill quote it again for u

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

what does this mean? can you just answer my questions? wit yes or no

It means exactly what it says, it isn't that complicated. Spam posting the same thing for hundreds of posts doesn't make you town. Self meta to the extent you do it is scummy. You have no actual case against me that I haven't brought up. You unvote with no explanation.
You're scum. We go into Day 2 1 scum down.

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

what does this mean? can you just answer my questions? wit yes or no

It means exactly what it says, it isn't that complicated. Spam posting the same thing for hundreds of posts doesn't make you town. Self meta to the extent you do it is scummy. You have no actual case against me that I haven't brought up. You unvote with no explanation.
You're scum. We go into Day 2 1 scum down.

to further analyze this -- its just you not answering a damn thing once again. you just have confirmation bias that you know for sure ill flip scum. if you are town -- ill probably say sum to u post game

so back to my unvote thing..

james i really tried to give you the benefit of the doubt because in my mind, i thought there was a chance you could have been town just incase i was just blindly tunneling u that sometimes i do by mistake.

and so i was just thinking about vfp's townread on you and everyone else's interaction wit u.

and i wanted you to answer questions regarding your inconsistency with your reads.

just to see how you viewved me + t3 differently than me + val.

but honestly, u never do.

u just always deflect, ignore, or find "meaningless" answers such as post 491 like wtf answer is that and what does that even mean.

i tried looking at you from a town perspective but i just can't see it -- everything alligns with you being town.

i will vote you back now unless someone has a pretty good towncase on you then my vote will stay on you.

VOTE: James[/uv]

pedit: this is exactly what i mean -- you still haven't answered shit. once again deflecting.

Post 491 reads:
I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

"I" in english refers to the first person, so JamesTheNames is saying this from their perspective.
"Think" comes from To Think meaning JamesTheNames had an idea in his head.
"It" refers to the idea of you bussing.
"Was" is the passed tense of be as you did it in the past.
"Intended" is a verb meaning you had justification behind an action
"as" is for a metaphor
"a" is a singular indirect pronoun for it
"back up" means a noun, similar to the idea of a Plan B
"because" meaning JamesTheNames was about to explain it.
"You" referring to you
"Were" referring to before you unvoted me?
"Confident" in your eyes you knew I was scum
"You"
"Could" had the ability to
"Get me hammered" kill me.

so back to my unvote thing..

james i really tried to give you the benefit of the doubt because in my mind, i thought there was a chance you could have been town just incase i was just blindly tunneling u that sometimes i do by mistake.

and so i was just thinking about vfp's townread on you and everyone else's interaction wit u.

and i wanted you to answer questions regarding your inconsistency with your reads.

just to see how you viewved me + t3 differently than me + val.

but honestly, u never do.

u just always deflect, ignore, or find "meaningless" answers such as post 491 like wtf answer is that and what does that even mean.

i tried looking at you from a town perspective but i just can't see it -- everything alligns with you being town.

i will vote you back now unless someone has a pretty good towncase on you then my vote will stay on you.

VOTE: James[/uv]

pedit: this is exactly what i mean -- you still haven't answered shit. once again deflecting.

Post 491 reads:
I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

"I" in english refers to the first person, so JamesTheNames is saying this from their perspective.
"Think" comes from To Think meaning JamesTheNames had an idea in his head.
"It" refers to the idea of you bussing.
"Was" is the passed tense of be as you did it in the past.
"Intended" is a verb meaning you had justification behind an action
"as" is for a metaphor
"a" is a singular indirect pronoun for it
"back up" means a noun, similar to the idea of a Plan B
"because" meaning JamesTheNames was about to explain it.
"You" referring to you
"Were" referring to before you unvoted me?
"Confident" in your eyes you knew I was scum
"You"
"Could" had the ability to
"Get me hammered" kill me.

lol i dont think you are understanding me.

i will ask once again.

answer my question with a yes or no answer.

I'm not wasting my time responding until you actually have a case against me I haven't addressed.

@Zyla @VPF @Val89 @NorweiganBoy @Cook @T3 @Astro @The person I accidentally forgot:
Thoughts on the nonsense of GrandpaMo unvoting me only to revote after asked about it?

? what i literally asked you.

and you still havent fucking addressed my other points??????

@Zyla @VPF @Val89 @NorweiganBoy @Cook @T3 @Astro @The person I accidentally forgot:
Thoughts on the nonsense of GrandpaMo unvoting me only to revote after asked about it?

? what i literally asked you.

and you still havent fucking addressed my other points??????

There's no need for getting angry or anything over this game. If I'm scum you have days to convince people. If you're scum just trying to get me hammered you have days to do it. I'm trying to enjoy this game just as much as you are.

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

Yes, I do think t3 is more liable than Val to be your scumpartner because of x.
No, I do not think T3 is more liable than Val to be your scumpartner because of x.

do you think i would bus as scum here?

Yes, I would think you bus here because of x..
No, I would think you don't here because of x.

you also pivoted ur vote from val to me. and this would have implied that you thought i was scummier. but still are bringing up the narrative that i could be scum wit val? so why pivot in the first place if there was a liable chance that i was scum wit val?

And you haven't even addressed this. I am not looking for a no/yes answer for this. But why.

@alstro did u literlaly miss this whole interaction?

@james wanna take a look?

Why didn't my text send?
^ I saw how you still have no points against me, what are you trying to get at?

read ... pls

[GrandpaMo]

you say you responded a long time ago -- and i quoted the wall quotes of our interaction. but you havent answered any of those questions in there with the actual meaning up until post 651

[GrandpaMo]

a james / grandpa scum team would be prett epic ngl

[GrandpaMo]

you say you responded a long time ago -- and i quoted the wall quotes of our interaction. but you havent answered any of those questions in there with the actual meaning up until post 651

I added the words yes. What are you going on about?

omg nvm just nvm

[GrandpaMo]

651 is literally me quoting the answers I already gave you, with 2 added words.

now you are changing the narrative --

first it was that you already responded and that my choices weren't needed to suffice your understanding .

but now it is that you already had the answers

i asked the question in post the 400s and you respond to me with no answer but something bout backing down

and never add ur "post numbers"

but now after alstro + pressure u on more after literally a shit ton of posts of me telling u to answer u try to find ur answers? and quote something way before when the question was asked and say that was ur answer? and say that you added the yes / no?

get outta here


pls town tell me this is not scum

[GrandpaMo]

337 is 134 less than 571, and 491 is 80 less.

The maths is absolutely spot on, but that only matters if you did in fact answer the question in #491.

You didn't. I've pointed this out, Grandpa pointed this out,Alstro pointed this out. Now, all 3 of us can't be scum, can we?

Ergo probably T3.

THAT IS WAY BEFORE MY QUESTION??

WHICH U NEVER BROUGHT UP IN UR FIRST RESPONSE

[GrandpaMo]

do you see how james is flipping the narrative now to include answers that was before the question that was never in their intitial response???

[GrandpaMo]

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

what does this mean? can you just answer my questions? wit yes or no

Explain your unvote. I'm curious.

im just thinking rn

Thinking what?

u think t3 is possible more liable to be my scumpartner than val?

t3 the person who i scumread?

do you think i would bus as scum here?

I think it was intended as a back up because you were confident you could get me hammered.

what does this mean? can you just answer my questions? wit yes or no

It means exactly what it says, it isn't that complicated. Spam posting the same thing for hundreds of posts doesn't make you town. Self meta to the extent you do it is scummy. You have no actual case against me that I haven't brought up. You unvote with no explanation.
You're scum. We go into Day 2 1 scum down.

???

[GrandpaMo]

337 is 134 less than 571, and 491 is 80 less.

The maths is absolutely spot on, but that only matters if you did in fact answer the question in #491.

You didn't. I've pointed this out, Grandpa pointed this out,Alstro pointed this out. Now, all 3 of us can't be scum, can we?

Ergo probably T3.

THAT IS WAY BEFORE MY QUESTION??

WHICH U NEVER BROUGHT UP IN UR FIRST RESPONSE

You asked me questions which already have been answered, I keep saying I've answered them, I've proven I've answered them, you keep going on about absolutely nonsense.

its not about you answering it.

its how you went about it. look you aren't understanding.

first I ask you the question, then you asnwer to only ONE of my question with something about backing down as hammer or what. then i told you to answer with yes or no since that is what the question asked for. then you never answered that + the original second question until alstro pointed up and this time you added a new narrative that you already answered this? yes you have but you never answered the question directly, you instead said you answered it in post 331 which is around 100 posts way before I asked that question -- which is impossible for you to say and therefore a fallacy for you to state that. yes that is true, you did answer my question -- but it feels like you are manipulating the siltation where you had to change the narrative after you found out you already answered it before.

it didn't come into question until val / alstro brought it up.

heck, you haven't answered my 2nd question until the pressure brought on. you keep saying you said it for your answer but you didn't, you could probably have used that as your evidence or support your reasoning but that's not what you did -- instead you used that as your full on answer that you already have said the answer way before the question.

it just seems like a lot of wishwashy inconsistent bs.

[GrandpaMo]

do you see how james is flipping the narrative now to include answers that was before the question that was never in their intitial response???

Person A-My favourite colour is yellow
Person B-Person A what is your favourite colour?
Person A-
Person B-?
Person A-
Person B-Scum!
Person A-
Person B-SCUM!
Person A-
Person B-SCUMM!!!!!
Person A-I told you already
Person B-No you didn't
Person A-Look I said yellow
Person B-No you're twisting the narrative with an answer before the question

lol thats not what happened and it feels like ur over exaggerating it

its more like

person a - person b is scum and their partner is x
person b - why do you think my partner is and do you think i am scum with x
person a - if they would have done that, then they are scum with you
person b - can you answer?
person a -
person b - hello?
person a -
person b -
person a - yea vfp, x is scum
person b - can you answer
person c - can you answer
person d - can you answer
person a - okay giv me a sec
person b - so again why do you think my partner is and do you think i am scum with x
person a - i said giv me a sec
person b -
person a - yes and ur partner is possibly t3; i already answered this a while back
person b - ok cool
person a - i already answered this question already
person b - now you did
person a - no, i gave u a post that answered ur question a while ago so technically it counts
person b - no it doesnt

[GrandpaMo]

oh forgot to include

**based on a true story**


kekw

[GrandpaMo]

yk wat

james i think ur town

[GrandpaMo]

and val ur scum just pocketing me

[GrandpaMo]

and vfp is scum too