Newbie 2068 | Lofi Beats to Play Mafia To | Game Over

[Zyla]

Hello all!
Nice to see you again James and T3

Or is it? Are you on the mafia team this time around VOTE: James?

[Zyla]

Unless T3 improved a lot from the last time we played, he doesn't look like scum based on his meta. That said, I'm not ruling him out entirely since meta does change over time, but we'll see!

[Zyla]

James noo keep it in the PT! /jk

[Zyla]

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

Hm. As an SE, I find it surprising you'd open with this. Why not a random vote, or some questions to get the ball rolling?

Spoiler:

CRASH

The skylight breaks open.

Down on a bungee cord, Cook comes sailing down in all her majesty. Into an earpiece, he responds to someone, "

See what I told you? It worked,

" before addressing the rest of the shocked patrons.

Okay, first of all, very rude initial vote on me. Second, VFP, you've played with me before, I was just running the game. Sorry about the misgame by the way. And the infrequent votecounts.

it was my first time, okay?

Now, to the rest of you. Hello, I'm

Cook

, and I play Mafia sometimes. Pronouns – basically all of them, haven't explored neopronouns. There's very little way to disrespect 'em. Look for what I use to refer to myself.

I recognize VFP, T3, and MiniMegabyte. Welcome, newcomers!

Cook searches her coat. "

I left my random vote in here somewhere... AHA! Wait, don't want to cast a vote for T3...

"

Furious scribbling occurs.

VOTE: Zyla

I was curious and looked through some of your threads, of the ones that I checked, this is the only one with this type of opening. What made the cook decide to spice up the meal today?

Unless T3 improved a lot from the last time we played, he doesn't look like scum based on his meta. That said, I'm not ruling him out entirely since meta does change over time, but we'll see!

I appreciate the sentiment but I sincerely doubt anyone can form an actual meta read on page 2.

True, but it's worth seeing your response

[Zyla]

Eh, fair enough

[Zyla]

What's weird about pointing out the no elim vote?

[Zyla]

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying there

[Zyla]

RVS sucks

True, but it's one of two options I know of to get the ball rolling. If you don't like RVS, how would you prefer town getting conversation going?

[Zyla]

RVS sucks

So does a no lim

You take that back!

No, no, James is right, No Elims are strictly bad for town in the majority of situations, from everything I've read, they're

only

good with an even number of players (Such as the day after the JK jails the NK actor or victim, Doc heals the victim, or mafia refrains)

We have 9 players, 7 Town, 2 Mafia. ELo is hit when we have 3/4 Town and 2 Mafia or 2/3 Town and 1 Mafia left.
Assuming that Mafia is able to pull off the NK every night, that means that the possibilities for hitting 3 or 4 town at 2 mafia is limited to NoElim NK, MisElim NK, (4 town) or MisElim NK, MisElim NK (3 Town). If we no-elim, we only have

one

chance to get our elimination wrong and still win the game, but if we vote for someone, even at random, we have a

chance

of hitting scum, still one mis-elim left, and gather information along the way.

tl;dr

never vote no Elim unless there's a

specific

reason for it

[Zyla]

I have never lost a game with a D1 no lim on here.

That's quite interesting, considering I haven't even found a game of yours that had a D1 No Lim. I guess you're 0for0 instead of 7for7

[Zyla]

VOTE: VFP I don't like the fact that you seem to have chosen no-elims on D1 to be a hill you're willing to die on, nor the fact that you implied that you've won multiple games with a D1 no-elim when I can't find any examples

[Zyla]

I... I have no words

Hero solve {VFP, GrandpaMo}

[Zyla]

Alright, I'm going to try to condense the "No Lim" convo so far.

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

Here's the original post, they posted a vote for no lim. They could be posting it as a joke, they could seriously be not wanting an elimination day 1, this might be their way of getting the ball rolling. (If the last one, mad props my friend, as it certainly worked) I don't know why they posted it, which is why I pointed it out so I could figure out the purpose of it.

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

Hm. As [you are] an SE, I find it surprising you'd open with this. Why not a random vote, or some questions to get the ball rolling?

Zyla maybe town, I don't see anything scum motivated to point out the no lim and as an experienced player probably just isn't used to this.

I'll be honest, I completely missed this post the first time around. Unfortunately I'm not really sure what they mean with the part past '[nothing] scum motivated', so I don't have a response

I have never lost a game with a D1 no lim on here.

Here

is where it goes from "what's the meaning of your vote?" to scum reading.

That's quite interesting, considering I haven't even found a game of yours that had a D1 No Lim. I guess you're 0for0 instead of 7for7

Why are they saying that they never lost a game that they've never played? (And if I missed the one where it did, why are they treating 1 or 2 as a rule?)

RVS sucks

True, but it's one of two options I know of to get the ball rolling. If you don't like RVS, how would you prefer town getting conversation going?

This is very very ironic because a No Lim has caused this conversation to get started and maybe get a read on you and maybe see interactions with other people. This is why I pointed you out earlier.

I lied.

This part is true, and again, if this was VFP's point, props to them.

Yes, I lied to you, it wasn't just because I pointed it out to say "it was funny", I pointed it out because I knew this was going to happen, and you weren't going to realize it after questioning hence why I had to lie so I can drop it off. But since, it has escalated ever since, the only reason this conversation happened was because VFP did a no lim. It's really NAI, and it seems like you are trying to set him up as scum for it. Yes, maybe he could be scum however, this is something more of NAI in my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a regard. Many people no lim on day 1 and many people vote on day 1.

We will all be voting regardless by day 1, so there is no point to continue this conversation. I thought you would stop because you would find it unnecessary and NAI to keep going about a specific vote, specifically a no lim.

But you didn't.

So I will give you scumpings for this. I don't fully scumread you because you initiating this conversation could be towny of you but the way you are handling it could be scummy of you if you understand.

Then there's this. I'm not sure if I'm somehow not understanding a couple of sentences in there or something, but I don't follow the logic at all. Frankly, this post just confuses me , and I'm struggling to understand where his scum read is coming from.

[Zyla]

Zyla

: It just seems weird to me to dig in so hard on literally one of the first posts in the thread, during the RVS phase. Additionally, the hero solve on 89 was a combo of that digging-in with a healthy dose of OMGUS. However, I have a doubt that I'm struggling to articulate, which is that I read a game in which Zyla turned out to be scum, and this game feels different. I read that earlier game not knowing I'd be playing with Zyla again, so maybe I need to go back and take a closer look.

Unfortunately, 2065 is not only my only scum game so far, but it was also my first game on sight, so tbh, scum meta won't be very helpful on me. 2064 I was town, but I replaced in into a rolling wagon on one of the scum and the next day was solved because of PRs rather than reads, so I'm not sure if that would be helpful for a town read

[Zyla]

Here's what I have for reads so far

Town

Town-lean

Alstro
James
T3

Null

Cook

Scum-lean

VFP
Grandpa

Scum

Not Enough Info:

MiniMeg
Val


VOTE: Grandpa

[Zyla]

Question for

Zyla

regarding your Val read. Does your scum-lean on Grandpa make you think Val is more likely to be town, given all of the back and forth that they had? I ask partially because I have them as flipped. It doesn't read like scum v scum to me.

I feel like I could probably give Val some town points if Grandpa flips scum, but I'm not sure enough to give them the points without seeing grandpa flip.

Here's what I have for reads so far

Spoiler:

Town

Town-lean

Alstro
James
T3

Null

Cook

Scum-lean

VFP
Grandpa

Scum

Not Enough Info:

MiniMeg
Val

VOTE: Grandpa

also sad how u and james dont wanna interact wit me right after just replying to u lmfao wit yall answers

? If this is because I hadn't yet replied to the tiny red text in a quote, your tl;dr was actually not helpful to me
Pedit: yep, that's what it was about

VOTE: VFP I don't like the fact that you seem to have chosen no-elims on D1 to be a hill you're willing to die on, nor the fact that you implied that you've won multiple games with a D1 no-elim when I can't find any examples

wait what?

why the pivot?

I found VFP's reasoning to be just enough to put them as townier than you, and I don't have any further questions for them right now, so I'm changing my vote to my scummier read

[Zyla]

Also, if you're going to quote long/wall posts (esp multiple in a row) can you please spoil them? Just highlight and click the <spoiler=> tag. It makes it a lot easier to read through

[Zyla]

If I'm not mistaken, the only legal way to take 74 is as a joke, otherwise I think it falls under a trust tell

@Mod, can I get confirmation on if I'm correct with that?

Spoiler: Zyla

A)

After Cook, we have another player posting a read list with little justification, which on examination, I can't get my head around in the slightest. I agree on MiniMegabyte being null. For me alstroemerial is any easy townlean read at this stage for both town and scum, but the rest of it, we are basically diametrically opposed.

B)

Let's start with T3. She reads him as notscum based on meta based on two posts, which is basically a obviously non-serious fake claim in response to my equally non-serious RVS vote. How is that alignment indicative in the slightest, even if you have a huge sample of T3s games to work with? T3 himself points this out, and Zyla rows back on it, and agrees its rubbish. Nothing else passes between them, and T3 continues to make non-posts, but he still ends up making the list as a Townlean? Not following, sorry.

C)

Then there is the James thing. I don't think anyone is going to be the slightest bit surprised when I give my read of James as scum, and even though his vote has moved at the time I am writing this, I think we are all expecting to see my name in red when James posts his list, if he gets around to it. This can't have escaped Zyla's attention. I'm reading James as scum, and I've said explicitly that's a pretty hard read, and Zyla reads him as townlean, no explanation given - but choses not to pipe up and explain why?

D)

And then I am null (or rather @Not enough info'). They must have taken a position on the Me V James push here - they say that read James town, so Zyla either thinks it's TvT, and I'm scooting off in the wrong direction hard, or I am scum pushing someone she thinks is town. In either case, I can't see how you hold me as 'not enough info' in the same vein as MiniMegabyte. Town!Zyla seeing either another town player pushing on someone they thing is town, or seeing someone they think is scum pushing on a town read surely says SOMETHING about that by now, and the fact it is being left as the giant elephant in the room and glossed over reads to me as newscum scared to either get too closely associated with her partner, or get accused of a chainsaw defense if the come after me, notwithstanding that coming after me is something I would expect town!Zyla to do if she reads it as SvT, or at least think about telling me to knock it off if she gets TvT vibes.

E)

I'm hoping someone can explain the difference between a "null" read and "not enough info", because to me, they are the same thing.

A) That's fine, we're different players, we look for different things, the important thing isn't that we read people the same, but that we work together

B) I had a gut feeling that he was town based on what I've seen of him before, in a game that we played and meta I read for that game (as that's what got him), it wasn't much to go off of, but I was curious to how he'd respond if I acted like it was clear cut evidence. I liked his response, which is where the actual town-lean comes from

C) I personally don't read anything scummy from his posts so far

D) Most of the time, I would rather sit back and try to get some information from the interaction than tell you to knock it off. I may step in if I see some logical inconsistencies, or if it causes a wagon to be started, but it's good to get the information I can

E) "Null" means "I see equal ways to read this person as town that I do to read them as scum", whereas "Not enough info" means "I don't have enough info to declare a read yet"

[Zyla]

? Nono, I'm saying that it is a joke, and that Val's questioning about it can go nowhere because of that

[Zyla]

A) That's fine, we're different players, we look for different things, the important thing isn't that we read people the same, but that we work together

I'm not expecting for our reads to match, and I don't scum read anyone purely for having different reads. I read VFP as leantown, and VFP reads you town, for example. I see VFPs explanation for it - that he considers a scum!Zyla would continue to prosecute the "no-lim" vote further than you did - and while I disagree with it, it seems a reasonable case for Town!VFP to make.

I'm having trouble reconciling the fact that you're saying you wouldn't scum read for differing reads with the fact that that seems to be what your original post was saying in that section, but maybe I misunderstood something there

On the other had, we have the exact opposite read on {T3, James, VFP and Grandpa}, and a different read on Cook, too - over fully half the field, and the essential difference is I can't game out the justifications you might have because you haven't shared them. I am aware the same applies to some of the other players also, and that's on my radar also.

I thought I had shared my reasons for most people:
T3 | 167 (B),
James | gut read,
VFP | 135,
Grandpa | 103

I had a gut feeling that he was town based on what I've seen of him before, in a game that we played and meta I read for that game (as that's what got him), it wasn't much to go off of, but I was curious to how he'd respond if I acted like it was clear cut evidence. I liked his response, which is where the actual town-lean comes from

I'm reading your ISOs side by side, and I don't see it. Which post of his gave that feeling; which post of yours is the one where you act like its clear cut evidence, and which post does he give the response you like?
This seems, on the surface, to be a reasonable explanation, so if you gave give me those links, I may well find some measure of ease there.

Like I said, it was originally a gut feeling, my reaction test was 37, and T3's reaction was 42

"Null" means "I see equal ways to read this person as town that I do to read them as scum", whereas "Not enough info" means "I don't have enough info to declare a read yet"

Fair enough. I can see that. What are your reasons for reading scum!Cook, and what are those for town!Cook?

Actually, rereading Cook's ISO, I can't remember which posts gave me any vibes at all, NEI may have been a better spot for them

Not to mention there are different reasons for me and Zyla scumreading you.

Can someone just take a moment to look at the combined ISO for James and Zyla and identify where Zyla gives her reasons for voting Grandpa prior to James' #145?

I can't find it, and it's worrying me.

Hm. I hadn't noticed that yet, I'm still leaning town on James, but I'll be watching for sure

[Zyla]

I'm having trouble reconciling the fact that you're saying you wouldn't scum read for differing reads with the fact that that seems to be what your original post was saying in that section

That'll be because you quoted the first part of my response, and not the follow up where I addresed that already.

Now hold on here. I quoted

every

part of your post and responded to it. It's not fair to imply that I didn't address the follow up when that was just the next paragraph.

On the other had, we have the exact opposite read on {T3, James, VFP and Grandpa}, and a different read on Cook, too - over fully half the field, and the essential difference is I can't game out the justifications you might have because you haven't shared them. I am aware the same applies to some of the other players also, and that's on my radar also.

There's a slight difference between "we don't have the same reads" and "

everyone you think is town is actually scum

, and everyone you think is scum I think is town".

You do not have enough justification to say that all my town reads are scum, maybe they read scummy to

you

, but on day one, that's always going to be subjective. But even if our reads were exact opposites, and they're not quite

that

different, it's way too early to say that one of us has to be right. The scum team could be Mini and Alstro, and neither of us would've had a single correct scum read at this point!

Hm. I hadn't noticed that yet, I'm still leaning town on James, but I'll be watching for sure

Hm indeed. It might have escaped your attention, but now you see James heavily implying you are communicating outside of thread, either a straight up scum slip, or else a scummy attempt to put words in your mouth and link you together, and your response is "still town though"?

You missed the option that I was thinking made the most sense, but I'll let James answer to see if I'm correct.

James: what made you say that our reads were for different reasons?

I'm sorry, but if all I had was a 'gut read'; then even if you thought my argument around him being evasive in the James v Val interactions when he has demonstrated that he thinks that is anti-town were total BS, even if you think there is some town explaination for the "I don't like using meta in this game when it looks bad for me, but I thought was fine in my last town game when it helped find scum" line he is trying to slip past us, even if you couldn't follow Grandpa's arguments against James and wrote those off, and even if you buy James response to alstromerial's additional reason re: the tunneling comment, then I would have thought James trying to link you in such a manner would be reason enough alone to override a pure 'gut read'.

To your credit, however, I am satisfied with your response with regards to T3.

Gut reads can be strong sometimes, he seems to be posting in the same way as our last game together, which to me is good, even if not conclusive. I will update my read as the game goes on, but for now, he is still leaning town

[Zyla]

If I'm not mistaken, the only legal way to take 74 is as a joke, otherwise I think it falls under a trust tell
@Mod, can I get confirmation on if I'm correct with that?

This is scum seeing T3 towntell and then getting mad because it's a "trust tell".
VOTE: Zyla

? How is self-meta a towntell?

VOTE: VFP I don't like the fact that you seem to have chosen no-elims on D1 to be a hill you're willing to die on, nor the fact that you implied that you've won multiple games with a D1 no-elim when I can't find any examples

Pushing someone for the reasoning of them: "wanting a no lim" looks really bad for you.

How so? No-elims are bad for town and they seemed adamant to defend their vote as being a good one, with something that is only

technically

true. (Town has lost 0 out of their 0 games that started with a no-elim d1)


Also. It doesn't matter if you find a post boring, just read it

[Zyla]

You should vote Zyla.

I find the "trust me newb, he's town cos I ain't a newb and I know it" about as convincing as the "trust me, he's town cos I played a game with him before" argument we get from Zyla.

My point isn't that James is town or that you should believe it, my point is that

I

think James is town - at the moment.

For the other part, I 100% think that "I'm the SE, so vote how I tell you" is bad form, although I haven't decided yet rather it's scummy, or someone who thinks they're better at this game than they are

[Zyla]

For the other part, I 100% think that "I'm the SE, so vote how I tell you" is bad form, although I haven't decided yet rather it's scummy, or someone who thinks they're better at this game than they are

Now you're just blatantly misrepping what i said to discredit me.
I've brought up that i have experience, yes. And i used that as an added supplement for my argumentation. But most of my posting has been used to explain my reasoning for believing James to be more likely town than scum and i've also listened to Val's case and responded as to what i think. So to say that all i've done is say to vote with me because i'm the SE is plain wrong.

I don't know how else this post is supposed to be taken

"He's town because he gives no shits about doing this things he says town should do, I'm an SE slot you newb so trust me." I ain't buying that.

Ok, newb.

You buy his read on Grandpa as genuine? Zyla is the other one driving that wagon, and I agree she's likely flipping red here too.

You should vote Zyla.

[Zyla]

No, I was honestly just worried that no one would agree with me and it would look like OMGUS

PEDIT: no such thing as an obvious joke over text with no tone indicators

[Zyla]

Also, don't tell us how to vote, tell us

why

to vote.
To paraphrase you: are you capable of summarizing what you've said about me into one easy to read post?

[Zyla]

Also, don't tell us how to vote, tell us

why

to vote.
To paraphrase you: are you capable of summarizing what you've said about me into one easy to read post?

- Your scummy voting pattern.

What makes it scummy?

- Pushing a slot for wanting no lim.

.. Something that's provably anti-town.

- Calling T3's post an trust tell and pestering mod about it.

Read my very next post. I wasn't calling it a trust tell, I was saying it

had

to be a joke.

[Zyla]

? Jokes are not universally obvious. Just because

you

know something is a joke doesn't mean everyone will

[Zyla]

Spoiler:

RVS sucks

True, but it's one of two options I know of to get the ball rolling. If you don't like RVS, how would you prefer town getting conversation going?

This is very very ironic because a No Lim has caused this conversation to get started and maybe get a read on you and maybe see interactions with other people. This is why I pointed you out earlier.

I lied.

Yes, I lied to you, it wasn't just because I pointed it out to say "it was funny", I pointed it out because I knew this was going to happen, and you weren't going to realize it after questioning hence why I had to lie so I can drop it off. But since, it has escalated ever since, the only reason this conversation happened was because VFP did a no lim. It's really NAI, and it seems like you are trying to set him up as scum for it. Yes, maybe he could be scum however, this is something more of NAI in my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a regard. Many people no lim on day 1 and many people vote on day 1.

We will all be voting regardless by day 1, so there is no point to continue this conversation. I thought you would stop because you would find it unnecessary and NAI to keep going about a specific vote, specifically a no lim.

But you didn't.

So I will give you scumpings for this. I don't fully scumread you because you initiating this conversation could be towny of you but the way you are handling it could be scummy of you if you understand.

"NAI, could be scum, don't read over this, stop the conversation"
To me this just seems absurd, he seems to go back and forth and back in a single post, and tries to suggest the conversation should just end, when so far it's been pretty productive and getting people to talk.

Spoiler:

i don't know if you were serious at all

No, I wasn't.

and realized it was just a BS post to make it seem long, with no content providing and voting someone other than your scumread xD

Absolutely correct. It was a straight-forward RVS vote dressed up in the style of a serious wall post. You correctly identify the most obvious punchline there, but I dropped a few other things that should have made it clear it was entirely non-serious. I don't really claim to have invented the acronym 'WIFOM', to take another example. Of course, if it transpires that

MiniMegaByte

is scum, I reserve the right to imply I was in fact being serious and I knew from day one.

My post #27 was equally non-serious. Technically, reading you as null was serious, but the reasons equally BS. The clue there was the fact the that you HAD put your vote on one of the 3 - and Cook, MiniMegaByte and me are definitely 3, by the way - with the kicker being the reference to

alstroemeria

, whom was yet to be mentioned. I read you as null because I was reading everyone as null. There is nothing upto #27 I consider indicative either way.

Okay I guess we both misunderstood? LOL. I just thought my RVS didn't really count as a "joke" scumread or whatever you want to read it as and so I just assumed you would imply that the people I scumread (and not the person I voted!) was scum.

Who would've thought that at the beginning of the game people joke around

Indeed.

you can see how it's bad and you should admit that.

To be clear - I do nothing of the sort.

Okay this was also sort of a wifom post to see your reaction to how well you took pressure early game. You took it well, unless this how you play good as scum. But I will give you towncreds for now as this post was not expected (yes, I expected a manipulative scummy post for some reason lol) but you did well responding to my points.

How well he took pressure? He just said his stuff wasn't serious? That get's town cred?

Look at the full context please. Smh. The answer you are looking for should be within the conversation. I will give you a hint; the reason relates to a misunderstanding we BOTH had. (I am assuming)

I don't like that this is his best answer. Where in the conversation is the answer? How is it supposed to be found? If the person asking the question was able to find it, don't you think they would've just... not asked the question?

Spoiler:

Thanks for condensing everything a bit more, Zyla. I interpreted post 78 as a joke, kind of like someone who's never played chess saying they're undefeated in chess. To be honest, so far, the only post in VFP's ISO that I interpret as serious is 57, and I would be curious for more of their thoughts.

Also, I'm not going to quote it again, but here's my interpretation of GrandpaMo's post 87... I didn't totally follow the first sentence so it kind of starts from after that.
1) VFP's no-lim is NAI, so he thinks it is suspicious that you are scumreading them for it.
2) Everyone will eventually vote by the end of D1, including VFP, so stressing about the no-lim is pointless. So, he expected you to stop pushing the issue, but you didn't.
3) Pushing something that Mo thinks is NAI makes you suspicious a bit.

Now that I write it out like that it seems a little less compelling than it was in my head, to be honest, but that combined with the OMGUS still has you slightly on the red side for me. But I do agree that it's been confusing.

Yea, that's why I said bad reaction because it was a weird omgus.

I don't fully scumread you but you are like the only one who I see that could be possible scum.

Also I agree with T3 and I do think your introduction is actually towny.

You did hit all the parts right. That was the main reason but it's also the way she ended up going with the convo -- just seemed like a way for scum to, I don't know, maybe drive a possible condemn? See this is why I give them scumpings not a full scumread because they could defeinitly be town for initiating the scumread or this convo -- which is has to be found, a very towny thing to do. So if that is the case (which will need to be decided later) then yea there is a chance for her to flip town.

(I'm not entirely sure who the pronouns are referring to, but it doesn't really matter)
If Grandpa doesn't scumread someone, how are they possible scum? That just doesn't make sense, could be just bad logic though.

Also, I very much dislike how James just left this conversation. This looks bad for you, James.

Scumreading someone for going to sleep is just.. bad.

I think also I will townlean you for not straight up finding scum between me and James. I feel like scum would just try to get an easy vote off me or James.

And then there's this. Why is he commenting saying that he's an easy vote?

[Zyla]

Fair enough, but I don't see the point in emphasizing that when it's day 1. If you're 100% set in stone on your votes this early on someone's doing something wrong

[Zyla]

I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that I like to post complete thoughts. I personally think it does change the way the post reads to add "i still don't agree with it for this reason" rather than leaving it as two words

[Zyla]

... I may have taken that a bit too harshly. I'm probably not in the best mood for mafia right now, so I'll check back later

[Zyla]

My point exactly, Zyla.

You may well feel like you can't leave it as two words which amount to "my point was shit" if you are scum, and your point was against someone you need to push as scum. Like, if anything in my case against you or James is just straight up crap based on a simple misunderstanding and another player comes along and points it out, I don't see an issue just saying "yeah, you are right, that's crap".

What's the reason you still don't like someone saying you are a scumlean, and the only scumlean they have so far? That it was Day 1? That they could change their mind later?

Incidentally, we have been interacting a fair bit of late. Have you enough information to make a read on me now?

No. Unfortunately, I don't think I can trust myself to read you right now, because it feels like you're purposefully trying to be rude, and that's going to cause an emotional read rather than a logical one. My post was not saying "My point was shit", and I don't think it

was

. It's not that I don't like him saying "you are the only scumlean I have", it's that I don't like the fact that it read as "You aren't scummy, but you're the only possible scum" as I don't see how both parts of that can be true.

what do u think about like the wall post that zyla posted of where i was saying i was an easy vote like look at post 299, last quote message

they only pointed out me and not james

Don't see anything wrong with that - it seems like a stretch to point to you talking about Norwee not jumping on either wagon and suggest that is scummy; but it seems equally weird to point to the fact she mentions the wagon on you and not the one on James to suggest they might be partners.

There is enough floating about and I think weak arguments like this are just starting to cloud the issue.

In response to Grandpa's 299, my post 277 was in response to NEE's 273. It was a scumcase on you, because I was specifically asked for one.
Also, @NEE, you mentioned that you doubt one of those sentences comes from town. Which one?


Also, I'm going to go back to my original VOTE: VFP. They've posted almost nothing substantial this entire game, said they were going to vote someone at 317 and never followed through, and from reading a random sample of 3 of their town ISOs, I don't think it's just playstyle.

[Zyla]

Ah, my post 285 was more saying that I understood how you read it that way than saying that I now read it that way. I'm still not entirely sure on it

[Zyla]

Well, my #290 was predicated on that former interpretation. I rescind it.

I read you scummy for it because what I thought you were saying was "Yes, you are right,

but

[nonsensical follow up that was unnecessary and served only to have something to hang a but on]". I see now I was wrong about that.

The phrasing of "I don't fully scumread you but you are like the only one who I see that could be possible scum." is bit awkward for sure. You bought it up as point 3 of 5 is a list of "reasons why Zyla thinks Grandpa is scummy". I gave you my interpretation as to what I think he was trying to express. If you disagree, can you articulate why you consider this specific phrasing to be AI? Do you think it was deliberate in order to distract, or something?

Honestly, looking back at it today with fresh eyes, I'm not as sure about it as I was. I was in a bad mood because of IRL stuff (which I didn't quite realize until 289) and I think I dug my heels into wet cement there. I'm gonna re-read the thread and see what I think then

[Zyla]

Feel free not to read 184. Zyla here links to a post where she explained why she scum read Grandpa. Which is earlier than 145.

Zyla herself acknowledges you haven't explained what's going on here and asks for qualification in her #208, while suggesting there is a third alternative.

Zyla, are you satisfied with James' responses, here?

Not really. I was expecting that they would say that they understood my reads to be something based off of my posts, honestly if they had linked that exact post and said "I read her read on Grandpa to be OMGUS" I would've been fine with that. And looking back at my own ISO, I think that that's what I would've thought and said had I been Town!James.

I will note, that I still partially agree with my later reasoning for scumreading Grandpa, but honestly I'd put him at null-scum more than even a scum-lean if that makes sense.

[Zyla]

VFP

: who were you planning on voting for in 317?

Val

:why did you think James would hammer without announcing intent? And would that be coming from Town or Scum James?

T3

: what do you think is the difference between how you and VFP have been playing this game?

T3 and Cook

: the same question for both of you. Why do you think VFP is scummy?

Pedit:

Grandpa

: why do you get to decide what votes are 'acceptable'?

[Zyla]

I'm gonna laugh if my half-joke, half-OMGUS hero-solve was correct, but the two of you are

really

making it look good right now

[Zyla]

VFP

: who were you planning on voting for in 317?

Val

:why did you think James would hammer without announcing intent? And would that be coming from Town or Scum James?

T3

: what do you think is the difference between how you and VFP have been playing this game?

T3 and Cook

: the same question for both of you. Why do you think VFP is scummy?

Pedit:

Grandpa

: why do you get to decide what votes are 'acceptable'?

since you asked us questions? why haven't you been able to answer / address my points that i made to you regarding that wall post that was full of manipulative reads.

Could you point me to the points that I didn't answer?

[Zyla]

okay ill try my best to digest this info because im confused? are you like tryna reiterate a scumcase on me?

Well, yes. NEE asked me to. Already addressed this in 355

-snip-
werent you the one who literally got on me for getting on a no lim vote being counterproductive??? and you even agreeed to that and that instantly contradicted your claim where you said "a no lim doesn't create any discussion x and x". very very hypocritcal. i don't go back and forth. alstro + me have gave you what that quote meant like 5 times already and you even came at an understanding later after i told you that i proposed a summary at the end in whcih you were like it wasn't a summary but alstro already had gave you the meaning and i agreeed. alstro hit almost spot on and i added to it. |: i rlly dont know why u are still bringing this up now.

I have no idea what this means, apologies, could you try to rephrase it and I'll answer it if I can?

Look at the full context please. Smh. The answer you are looking for should be within the conversation. I will give you a hint; the reason relates to a misunderstanding we BOTH had. (I am assuming)

I don't like that this is his best answer. Where in the conversation is the answer? How is it supposed to be found? If the person asking the question was able to find it, don't you think they would've just... not asked the question?

i have no idea what you are referring to here. this is what happened in the interaction between me and james -- it seems like you are getting very over defensive as ur possible scum partner james. i already explained this multiple times. look at post 146 and the whole quote wall wit james initial reply and my justification as it wasn't that obvious. that context was obvious and town should have easily got it.

This post wasn't about defending anyone, it was showing NEE my case against you. And I don't understand why you didn't simply.. give him the answer, or even point to the post that had it. Also, just because something is obvious to you does not make it obvious to everyone.

idk if you noticed, but i said "possible scum" this was still when i was debating if u were scum or possible misguided town then james came into play and just used my bias. james could just be using u as a utility to vote me. thats where my paranoia creeked in. i didnt have any scumreads at the moment, but you were the only one who has potential to be scum. keywords: fully (which implies scumlean) and possible (paranoia of null read) and i furhter exemplified this in a later read where i said you were null scum leaning.

I addressed how I read this in 355

Also, I very much dislike how James just left this conversation. This looks bad for you, James.

Scumreading someone for going to sleep is just.. bad.

Spoiler:

Okay this post pissed me off. What?????!?!?

I am not even-

Like where were you in the last 10 pages???

Did you not see the full post for this?

Did you not see anything for this?

Why are just bringing this stuff up now??

You just look like a bit of flailing scum trying your best to drive any momentum on a vote on me?

I'm bringing it up because I was asked to

Spoiler:

I think also I will townlean you for not straight up finding scum between me and James. I feel like scum would just try to get an easy vote off me or James.

And then there's this. Why is he commenting saying that he's an easy vote?

because majority is on us or james?? This should have been obvious. You could have been confused, but you shouldn't be know. the two major bws was me and james, heck i even think i was at e-2. and i had the most votes on me. scum usually comes in after a replacement and decides to scumread the person wit the most votes well that is biased because it happened to me before lol in a pervious game.

but idk -- this should have been obvious to you. also it sounds like you could be manipulating this to make me look bad for only me? like you know i said easy vote off me OR james? not just me. why didn't you mention james??

POSSIBLE SCUMPARTNER???!?!?!?!?

we may never know:(

Didn't mention James because I wasn't asked about James, also I don't think James called himself an easy vote

[Zyla]

honestly just forget this ... i dont want my frustration to get in my reads against you...

Hey, you brought this up

can you quote that?

Quote the fact that I was asked to make a read-post on you? I pointed you to that in my original response to this post in 355

lol u are just making me look bad. go read the quote back again. i mentioned me and james. -- and how WE were easy vote for scum if we were both town.

I'm not sure I see your point


Also, can you try and avoid doing the colored text in replies? It makes it harder to keep track of who's saying what, or

when

you're saying things, especially in long back and forths

[Zyla]

this is the real flailing scum

If 'this' is you, I can't help but agree

[Zyla]

The entire history of the universe has led to this moment... How many posts have I made in Newbie 2068!

Pedit: what do you mean it's 43 now??

[Zyla]

I mean, I think a VFP elim would work and make sense, I don't like the fact that they were at E-1 and decided to join in with complete nonsense rather than anything worthwhile.
But it would also be nice to see some more from Cook and T3...

T3

: You don't find VFP scummy. So why were you willing to put them at E1 this early in the day? (or even E2, since you apparently weren't keeping track)

Cook

: You went directly from town-reading VFP to saying you were ok with a wagon and voting on them. What changed?

[Zyla]

Maybe it's T3, he's a pretty silent partner, lol

[Zyla]

Maybe it's T3, he's a pretty silent partner, lol

What do you mean?

Mostly a joke, I just know from experience in a Newbie 2065 that he's not really a "coaching" type scum-partner (to be fair to him, he didn't have

much

of a chance, as he was meta-read early on in the game)

[Zyla]

Just to note, I'll be away for the rest of the (IRL) day, see y'all later, and feel free to solve the game while I'm away

[Zyla]

I... I thought reading this thread on the way back home would be nice. Now I've just got a headache.

Grandpa, question for you. When you make posts, do you usually just write what you're thinking and hit send?

[Zyla]

I want to clarify, that I'm not meaning that to be rude, I'd just personally suggest rereading your posts a couple of times, maybe even check spelling and grammar, not because those are necessary, but because rereading might help make sure your logic sounds like it would make sense to other people

[Zyla]

.... sorry for the run on sentence. I'm not the best at doing that while on my phone.

[Zyla]

When you make posts, do you usually just write what you're thinking and hit send?

Me? I summarize my thoughts and let the people with actually decent process of elimination do the thinking out loud

This is like... the LAMIST possible response to a question directed at someone else

[Zyla]

Grandpa, question for you. When you make posts, do you usually just write what you're thinking and hit send?

and u think thats scummy? cuz thats how i play as my town playstyle -- i like for town to listen to my thoughts // and gain negative or postiive reactions from them.

Actually, no, I don't think it's scummy. I just think it's confusing.

I want to clarify, that I'm not meaning that to be rude, I'd just personally suggest rereading your posts a couple of times, maybe even check spelling and grammar, not because those are necessary, but because rereading might help make sure your logic sounds like it would make sense to other people

Stream of consciousness is great for a PT thread, but if you want other people to understand and follow your reads, it's helpful to read over your post at least once before posting it.

[Zyla]

Wait, you can just use the tag "post" 838 and have the links inserted automatically? I've been manually copying the URL this entire time

Oh no

.
Yeah, it doesn't work in the attribution part of quote tags though, which is frustrating when you accidentally delete the starting tag

[Zyla]

... It may be between VFP and Grandpa today for the elimination, but we are

definitely

going to be taking a close look at Cook.

[Zyla]

This is one of those games that I can't wait for it to end just so I can show it to my friends. It's quite .... 'entertaining' to read through

[Zyla]

I am going to full claim at E1. Let's make that clear.
Where is Grampa's vote? >:|

Well, you're currently at E2, so
VOTE: VFP

Pedit: Dangit, worth a shot

[Zyla]

WTF R WE BOTH TOWN NOW????

I doubt it

[Zyla]

Welp. Unless tomorrow gives us something really big, there might be a signature change tomorrow

[Zyla]

Dang it, I was hoping he'd end up catching himself

[Zyla]

My response to 977

My .. claim ... scum .. anyone reading .. can see .. pretty clear

Hm. vote val.

[Zyla]

Especially Zyla’s fake PR slip threw us off.

I still love that I accidentally did this, I hadn't even noticed until Nahdia pointed it out in the dead thread

[Zyla]

Agreed! Thanks for the game ^^