Newbie 2069: Summertime [game over!]

[GrandpaMo]

Where is everyone right now, I get that discussion is a bit harder with a person VLA, and one has to be replaced, but 6 other people aren't even talking at all. That kind of seems like a waste of a day to have no discussion whatsoever. So can those 6 people explain why they're not talking right now?

so something to note that is that this is forumn -- not everyone is going to be here at the same time. but hmm i probably have to see what u talkin bout

anyways sorry ik weird enterance this just caught my attention

[GrandpaMo]

wait i should probably not talk until i get the ok

[GrandpaMo]

@mod ^

[GrandpaMo]

GrandpaMo replaces gray.

in the future, please do not post until i announce the replacement.

sorry sorry i forgot D;

[GrandpaMo]

However, #25 and #26 are reasonable concerns. But I won't rule out the possibility that scum could've jumped on it to look town either.

You think both scum would jump on the same thing at the same time?

I meant that it is a completely possible, and while not likely, should not be ignored. Leaving out part of someone's thoughts without a good reason, to me often just comes off as if they're hiding something, or could be actively trying to deceive others.

I think you're reading too much into RVS.

VOTE: StrangeMatter

am i the only one who sees as strangematter as good lim bait for mafia becuase they are probably falling into newbie traps

[GrandpaMo]

Welcome!

I am replacing into this game as a learning metric for me to get better on a playstyle that fits me.

Now let me do my RVS in peace:

We vote nora here VOTE: norra

[GrandpaMo]

I'm still waiting on Italiano to answer the question from #112. Really want to know what their thought process was with it.

Spoiler:

I'm wondering, @Italiano, why do you keep asking questions such as asking about people's votes or RVS like they mean something?

I ask questions the way I do because I not only want to just sort players I want to know and see how they think. I wanna know why people do the things they do or don't do the things they do. I want to know how players think and what's going on in their head, not just why they did something. I usually do this with RQS but sometimes I do it the way you see it here. It just depends on how I'm feeling. Some people think it's weird or suspicious but hey I'm not playing for them, I'm playing for myself and it works for me because I've caught plenty of scum/wolves that way, but it also helps me accurately pinpoint town players so finding scum is easier.

tell me what you got out of it?

[GrandpaMo]

I'm wondering, @Italiano, why do you keep asking questions such as asking about people's votes or RVS like they mean something?

This feels like an opportunistic jump

Idk abt here but I've heard RVS reffered to as RQS as well, random questions or whatnot. anything in RVS is more useful than nothing, and I think everything means more than nothing.

Not sure about what you thought that made this an opportunistic jump. I just wanted them to answer that question, and got what I think was a pretty good response from it, so I'm happy to back off.

what made u think it was a good response?

[GrandpaMo]

I'm town reading Nora at this point but I honestly wish I wasn't. Pretty sure she's just a townie giving scum a free Day 1.

fuck this makes me think you're scum even more. because I feel like newbies aren't so nuanced that they can townread me here despite me hard SRing but its also not right off the bat so maybe its genuine. honestly im pretty tunneled and I feel bad because that makes me think roden is town. for some reason, im particularly good at tunneling town and its not a great thing.

This is kind of what I mean when I say you're being condescending. Why is it so hard to imagine a newbie could be nuanced with their reads? I know you're in VLA now so this isn't getting answered, but man, this is not a good start.

both of you sound like my personalities combined together holy fuck lol

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: The Bulge

I don't think scum sticks to a narrative of that long @buldge -- look at how roden didn't give up their reasoning. This is possibly tvt.

i would like to explore this

VOTE: BimbleSticks

[GrandpaMo]

Where is everyone right now, I get that discussion is a bit harder with a person VLA, and one has to be replaced, but 6 other people aren't even talking at all. That kind of seems like a waste of a day to have no discussion whatsoever. So can those 6 people explain why they're not talking right now?

I don't think this is particularly suspicious - I've been following along fine I just wanted more time to think about my reads to make sure I actually had something useful to say.

My takes as of right now:

Roden is reading highly scum to me, he's being waaaaaaay too defensive at this point. Noraa is being pretty clear to give him credit, saying it's possible this is a tvt scenario and she's unsure, and Roden just responds by getting angrier and saying he's considering a different game. In my experience, when they see questioning they perceive as illogical, town tends to try and respond calmly while scum gets really indignant and defensive. I think it has something to do with scum being afraid of being eliminated for what they would consider "the wrong reasons".

I don't trust Italiano. Not only are their short and half-pointless questions weird, but everything they say reads to me in this tone of them being pissed off. But then again, tone is hard to tell over the internet.

I'm ever so slightly suspicious of Noraa, as I felt they went a little too far to justify them wanting the opinion of The Bulge, but I'm not particularly confident in that read.

I'm reading Illwei and The Bulge as town so far, both of them seem pretty reasonable, The Bulge moreso.

roden plays like me when im town so im kinda biased but shh ;-;

but this could be scum cuz i also have done some possible AtE as scum but more towards the end of the game and not this early on

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: The Bulge

I don't think scum sticks to a narrative of that long @buldge -- look at how roden didn't give up their reasoning. This is possibly tvt.

i would like to explore this

VOTE: BimbleSticks

woops wrong person -- yall pfps are similar

UNVOTE: BimbleSticks
VOTE: illiwee

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: The Bulge

I don't think scum sticks to a narrative of that long @buldge -- look at how roden didn't give up their reasoning. This is possibly tvt.

huh?

woops wrong person -- yall pfps are similar

UNVOTE: BimbleSticks
VOTE: illiwee

what makes you suspicious of illwei?

1. I feel like if roden was scum, they would have pivoted or kept deflecting -- an emotional reaction usually stems from a newbie yk?

But they have kept on and latched on to the same narrative with them pushing you with. I could be wrong, but right now that is how I am seeing it especially when everyone has quickly scumread Roden for this. This is why I thought roden is one of those players that can be easily taken advantage of in a newbie game by scum.

If they have other games they have played, that is probably the first place I would actually would check to see if they play like this all the time yk?

2. I am just exploring this for now -- (their vote on roden in post 102 and completely disappearing after that. logs seem like filler logs. in post 131, they talk about having to reread roden and not finding anything? -- it just seemed very out of place)

[GrandpaMo]

Roden, I hope you've had a good night's sleep and are in a better mood today. have you had a chance to reread our exchange from last night at all? because youre looking to me like textbook flailing scum. you became very emotional for no reason at all, and were accusing me of things I never even said or did. anything you wanna add/change to what you said?

You just can't help yourself can you? I meant everything I said. Every single post is you or Nora talking down to me. You're being rude and condescending for literally no reason, and no matter how many times I bring it up you just refuse to stop. I didn't even start this argument, Nora just made up a narrative over posts she didn't even read correctly, and even after I've clarified everything I'm still getting attacked over the flimsiest reasons.

I have been cooperative. I have answered every question. I have clarified everything I possibly could. But that

still

doesn't seem to be good enough for you. You're accusing me of flailing over an argument you continue to instigate. Despite everything, neither you or Nora feel like you have to answer my own questions. You discount and discredit and ignore every single comment and observation I make. You paint me as scum when no one else seems to agree with you, and when I vote you all you do is paint me as being emotional to discredit any reads I have on you.

If you think I'm scum, then actually push my wagon instead of just poking at me page after page. Take me to E-1, I'll hammer myself. Because at this point I'm fairly certain you're scum, and you will 100% be in the hot seat Day 2 since you have refused to discuss anything else and everyone will see me flip green.

And no, no one will buy your argument that I was just a townie who played poorly. You town read me and told Nora we were TvT. You still jumped in and continued to fight with me. You will not be able to convince anyone that you had no idea I was town.

So do it. Push my wagon.

it's okay, if you are town and you feel like someone on your wagon is scum, you should not let them take advantage of you. pretend that bulge is town in your eyes, bring out different possibilities of scum.

[GrandpaMo]

Roden, I hope you've had a good night's sleep and are in a better mood today. have you had a chance to reread our exchange from last night at all? because youre looking to me like textbook flailing scum. you became very emotional for no reason at all, and were accusing me of things I never even said or did. anything you wanna add/change to what you said?

You just can't help yourself can you? I meant everything I said. Every single post is you or Nora talking down to me. You're being rude and condescending for literally no reason, and no matter how many times I bring it up you just refuse to stop. I didn't even start this argument, Nora just made up a narrative over posts she didn't even read correctly, and even after I've clarified everything I'm still getting attacked over the flimsiest reasons.

I have been cooperative. I have answered every question. I have clarified everything I possibly could. But that

still

doesn't seem to be good enough for you. You're accusing me of flailing over an argument you continue to instigate. Despite everything, neither you or Nora feel like you have to answer my own questions. You discount and discredit and ignore every single comment and observation I make. You paint me as scum when no one else seems to agree with you, and when I vote you all you do is paint me as being emotional to discredit any reads I have on you.

If you think I'm scum, then actually push my wagon instead of just poking at me page after page. Take me to E-1, I'll hammer myself. Because at this point I'm fairly certain you're scum, and you will 100% be in the hot seat Day 2 since you have refused to discuss anything else and everyone will see me flip green.

And no, no one will buy your argument that I was just a townie who played poorly. You town read me and told Nora we were TvT. You still jumped in and continued to fight with me. You will not be able to convince anyone that you had no idea I was town.

So do it. Push my wagon.

you are playing ate here. and i am kinda biased because i do this as town as well purposefully and even not purposefully sometimes. but this sounds geninue imo -- and a good rxn.

[GrandpaMo]

I think there's one detail that I think should've been brought up, but has The Buldge actually pushed a wagon on Roden to eliminate them?

that's what i thought as well -- i thought the reasonings on roden implied that bulge highly scumreads roden for x and x

i give +1 townping for this thought process

[GrandpaMo]

I think there's one detail that I think should've been brought up, but has The Buldge actually pushed a wagon on Roden to eliminate them?

that's what i thought as well -- i thought the reasonings on roden implied that bulge highly scumreads roden for x and x

i give +1 townping for this thought process

I think you misunderstood what I meant to say. I'm wondering why there's a thought that The Bulge is scumreading them, yet they aren't actually pushing to get them voted. Generally, from what I've read so far, I've haven't seen them really wagon despite what I have read from most of their posts. Wouldn't scum who is taking something like voting an easy person like Rodan, and lean into that?

why do you think i thought this was a tvt situtation lol -- it just feels like roden frustrated town and bulge is trying there best to solve their allignment. also its more of nai imo -- there are better reasons to town/scum read them but votes isn't something u rlly look at until u look at hammers / voting patterns

[GrandpaMo]

I'm not really sure why I'm getting called defensive for reacting to getting death tunneled on page 2, but somebody saying "my post wasn't serious, your reaction is suspicious" gets a free pass.

Why are both you and Nora making up narratives in your head and trying to present it as fact here?

I didn't even start this argument, Nora just made up a narrative over posts she didn't even read correctly, and even after I've clarified everything I'm still getting attacked over the flimsiest reasons.

I have been cooperative. I have answered every question. I have clarified everything I possibly could. But that

still

doesn't seem to be good enough for you.

You paint me as scum when no one else seems to agree with you,

this is what frustrated, caught scum looks like. if you're town, Roden, please relax, realize nobody is out to get you on a personal level, and realize that if you're being whiny and unpleasant as a defense, all that will get you is more votes. I'm trying to give you a chance to gather yourself and to pay closer attention to the thread when you're reading and responding to posts. if you're gonna be obstinate about that, then you don't get any benefit of the doubt, and I'd happily see you hammered into oblivion.

yea i agree -- but i have done this in a town game / and scum game -- you should look at it from genuine frustration -- do you think scum would make their playstyle quite obvious like that?

but you understanding -- and trying to solve alignment like it feels like you are town doing it

anyways i think u should start looking at different ppl now

[GrandpaMo]

I'm not really sure why I'm getting called defensive for reacting to getting death tunneled on page 2, but somebody saying "my post wasn't serious, your reaction is suspicious" gets a free pass.

Why are both you and Nora making up narratives in your head and trying to present it as fact here?

I didn't even start this argument, Nora just made up a narrative over posts she didn't even read correctly, and even after I've clarified everything I'm still getting attacked over the flimsiest reasons.

I have been cooperative. I have answered every question. I have clarified everything I possibly could. But that

still

doesn't seem to be good enough for you.

You paint me as scum when no one else seems to agree with you,

this is what frustrated, caught scum looks like. if you're town, Roden, please relax, realize nobody is out to get you on a personal level, and realize that if you're being whiny and unpleasant as a defense, all that will get you is more votes. I'm trying to give you a chance to gather yourself and to pay closer attention to the thread when you're reading and responding to posts. if you're gonna be obstinate about that, then you don't get any benefit of the doubt, and I'd happily see you hammered into oblivion.

yea i agree -- but i have done this in a town game / and scum game -- you should look at it from genuine frustration -- do you think scum would make their playstyle quite obvious like that?

but you understanding -- and trying to solve alignment like it feels like you are town doing it

anyways i think u should start looking at different ppl now

actually bulge -- do you think they are playing different then they were in newbie 2065 ?

[GrandpaMo]

also grampamo, stop quoting long posts and saying a sentence about it if you are town! that's a scum tactic to waste space.

what....?

this quote literally makes no sense.

[GrandpaMo]

Im not a fan of Grandpa mo. What was the point of the RVS vote and why does every one of his posts look filler? idk im off again to vla land but that's something to think about!!

i already explained -- i wanted to vote illwee because no one has explored them yet. so i thought i would vote them.

also i gave my reads throughout my posts.

lol ironically, i called out illwee's posts filler.

but im interested now -- what makes u think im saying filler logs?

[GrandpaMo]

I'm not really sure why I'm getting called defensive for reacting to getting death tunneled on page 2, but somebody saying "my post wasn't serious, your reaction is suspicious" gets a free pass.

Why are both you and Nora making up narratives in your head and trying to present it as fact here?

I didn't even start this argument, Nora just made up a narrative over posts she didn't even read correctly, and even after I've clarified everything I'm still getting attacked over the flimsiest reasons.

I have been cooperative. I have answered every question. I have clarified everything I possibly could. But that

still

doesn't seem to be good enough for you.

You paint me as scum when no one else seems to agree with you,

this is what frustrated, caught scum looks like. if you're town, Roden, please relax, realize nobody is out to get you on a personal level, and realize that if you're being whiny and unpleasant as a defense, all that will get you is more votes. I'm trying to give you a chance to gather yourself and to pay closer attention to the thread when you're reading and responding to posts. if you're gonna be obstinate about that, then you don't get any benefit of the doubt, and I'd happily see you hammered into oblivion.

yea i agree -- but i have done this in a town game / and scum game -- you should look at it from genuine frustration -- do you think scum would make their playstyle quite obvious like that?

but you understanding -- and trying to solve alignment like it feels like you are town doing it

anyways i think u should start looking at different ppl now

I'm not really sure why I'm getting called defensive for reacting to getting death tunneled on page 2, but somebody saying "my post wasn't serious, your reaction is suspicious" gets a free pass.

Why are both you and Nora making up narratives in your head and trying to present it as fact here?

I didn't even start this argument, Nora just made up a narrative over posts she didn't even read correctly, and even after I've clarified everything I'm still getting attacked over the flimsiest reasons.

I have been cooperative. I have answered every question. I have clarified everything I possibly could. But that

still

doesn't seem to be good enough for you.

You paint me as scum when no one else seems to agree with you,

this is what frustrated, caught scum looks like. if you're town, Roden, please relax, realize nobody is out to get you on a personal level, and realize that if you're being whiny and unpleasant as a defense, all that will get you is more votes. I'm trying to give you a chance to gather yourself and to pay closer attention to the thread when you're reading and responding to posts. if you're gonna be obstinate about that, then you don't get any benefit of the doubt, and I'd happily see you hammered into oblivion.

yea i agree -- but i have done this in a town game / and scum game -- you should look at it from genuine frustration -- do you think scum would make their playstyle quite obvious like that?

but you understanding -- and trying to solve alignment like it feels like you are town doing it

anyways i think u should start looking at different ppl now

actually bulge -- do you think they are playing different then they were in newbie 2065 ?

if you are referring to this @nora, then i actually used my first point -- to bring up the question later on in post 216 to get a better mentality on how bulge plays and reassuring my read that these are two towns.

[GrandpaMo]

I'm going to reread more into Nora and Roden's arguments more right now.

I'd love to hear your opinion on it!

From what I see, these conversations feel very Town vs Town, where both have made posts that ping me as Town. However, I'm very on the fence when it comes to Roden's defensiveness, especially when they conversed with you, and then Buldge. It looks kind of scummy, but at the same time I'm not really able to read anything from said defensiveness, as it can go either way for me. I'm just going to leave them as a somewhat small Townlean for right now.

same. i think we are all town here actually.

and scum just lies between Illwei, Bakslash, Bimblesticks, ItalianoVD

[GrandpaMo]

Unless of course that's the plan

...Pardon?

Roden reacting is not alignment indicative, it's probably just playstyle, but GrandpaMo dismissed it saying it's a newbie reaction and that Bulge should look elsewhere.

i did say that...

[GrandpaMo]

VOTE: The Bulge

I don't think scum sticks to a narrative of that long @buldge -- look at how roden didn't give up their reasoning. This is possibly tvt.

huh?

woops wrong person -- yall pfps are similar

UNVOTE: BimbleSticks
VOTE: illiwee

what makes you suspicious of illwei?

1. I feel like if roden was scum, they would have pivoted or kept deflecting -- an emotional reaction usually stems from a newbie yk?

But they have kept on and latched on to the same narrative with them pushing you with. I could be wrong, but right now that is how I am seeing it especially when everyone has quickly scumread Roden for this. This is why I thought roden is one of those players that can be easily taken advantage of in a newbie game by scum.

If they have other games they have played, that is probably the first place I would actually would check to see if they play like this all the time yk?

2. I am just exploring this for now -- (their vote on roden in post 102 and completely disappearing after that. logs seem like filler logs. in post 131, they talk about having to reread roden and not finding anything? -- it just seemed very out of place)

i thought the bolded implied that ^^ sorry for possible misunderstanding

[GrandpaMo]

@GrandpaMo: You can copy/paste what you want to quote. You don't have to quote the whole post. Just highlight what you want to comment on and press the quote button.

thank you!!!

u actually reminded me to do this omg tysm...

like ive been gotten a lot of backlash for just quotewall spamming -- misunderstanding /confusion

so i will probably try doing this

[GrandpaMo]

e

LOL

[GrandpaMo]

Both scum are in this pool and im close to 100% sure of it
{Illwei, piisirrational/Bakslash, Roden, Bimblesticks, ItalianoVD}

if any of them start pushing outside of the pool, that's gonna look bad because im certain that Strangematter, Grandpa Mo, and Bulge are town. I think it's pretty obvious that I am town but if anyone wants to challenge that, go ahead.

yea ur fucking town. there is no way that strangematter + nora are scum LOL. The only person I may have weary thought is bulge but im certain their thought process against roden is towny as well.

i still wanna push illiwee

[GrandpaMo]

and scum just lies between Illwei, Bakslash, Bimblesticks, ItalianoVD

oh man I keep seeing your posts and they all say similar things to what im thinking. idk how I feel about that but I do still think you're town probably.

intuitative thought is usually townpings -- this happened earlier with another player -- literally the only reason im playing in the newbie queue is to fix my diverted and bad playstyle i play as town

[GrandpaMo]

something i need to work on is spam posting, which im working on rn -- its so hard to gather all thoughts in one post, and i think that is a weakness that scum can take advantage off

[GrandpaMo]

Just more pointless personal attacks and gaslighting. Yeah I'm certain you're scum at this point, I don't see a townie, especially a SE townie, pulling this kind of shit. You didn't act like this at all in the other newbie game we played. You didn't tunnel and attack people over and over, you just hung back, asked questions, then pressed scum when they made actually scummy posts.

Why do you refuse to vote me if you keep saying I'm scum and want to see me hammered? Why wouldn't you vote out someone you're certain is scum? This is flat out anti-town. It really does just sound like you know I'm not really scum but don't want the attention for pushing my wagon when I flip green. Town doesn't need to be manipulative like that.

There is actually something that I need to point out.

I actually read this game.

And i even asked Bulge a question about, of how you know its different from here to there.

Becuase both of you seem to be actually more cooperative in that game.

But in this -- it seems that you have had a first conflict occured with Noraa vs Roden in page 3 -- but that original conflict died down.

Post 78-79 are actually somewhat reasonable and sticks out to me as a good posts and different than Roden's other posts

Post 122 Bulge townreads Roden explicitly.

Post 133 Roden is townreading Norra

But Norra at that point was still conflicted

Post 138 - Norra explicitly scumreads Roden

The Roden V Bulge interaction started in page 7

Page 10 is where the conflict rises and roden gets more frustrated.

Some post -- Roden explicitly scumreads Bulge (rising confbias)

Conclusion:

I feel like if you really should analyze this, there were two conflicts one in the beginning and one that is happening concurrently, both have had issues with playstyle and Roden's demeanor. This should, therefore, confirm that Roden's playstyle / Demeanor is MOST LIKELY in fact NAI. No one actually had a scumcase on Roden, I don't think. So if we further analyze, this would put Norra who scumread Roden in THEIR interaction and Bulge who null/townread in THEIR interaction. Furthermore, Norra now townreads, well I believe implicitly townreads Roden through out the Bulge / Roden interaction.

So I will ask you this @Roden, what do you feel like is different from here than in the game you played? Are there specific posts / quotes you can point out to me?

[GrandpaMo]

For the record, I did replace in because I saw you and GrandpaMo in the player list on page one, but didn't read anything else about the game, or have any opinions on any slot, let alone yours.

wait why

[GrandpaMo]

Caught up with this thread. My predecessor posted nothing of note so not commenting on that. Here are my current thoughts on each player:

Bimblesticks - Only posted 3 posts that don't provide much information at all.

GrandpaMo - Null on this slot for now. None of their posts yet strike me as definitively alignment indicative, but to be fair, that's mainly on the context of the posts themselves. Once I get a better read on the interactions later I will be able to sort this slot.

Illwei - I'm not feeling this slot. Most of his analysis so far seems to be sorting actions as alignment indicative, which 1) there hasn't been much of, and 2) fairly little explanation as to why this would or would not be AI. Also I disagree with post 130. Asking someone a question as to why they're doing something isn't an opportunistic jump, it's trying to get more information. If it was actually opportunistic a vote would have been placed, which I do not see in the quote. He's actively lurking and kind of fence-sitting.

ItalianoVD - His gameplay seems quite different than in past games I played with him. To be fair, those games were a while ago, but in those games, he provided much more analysis to his thinking and seemed more willing to actually want to solve the game. Most of his posts are currently fluff without much explanation, and the questions do seem simple enough to be easily asked by scum. His town playstyle I think would involved more detailed posts. I also don't like how he dodged the accusation of his questions providing no note, since town!Italiano would actually want to address that because that's most of his posts right now that actually do contain content.

Noraa - I feel like most of the interactions so far concerning her are town but I can't point to specific posts yet. Nothing from her, skimming through this thread, strikes me as scum indicative, so townlean for now.

Roden - I disagree with post 53 and how anyone can "read too much into RVS." While the general purpose of RVS is to help generate content, it is still information to be gathered at the end of the day. In fact, it's generally the best place to catch scum because they aren't accustomed to figuring out how to manipulate town to its ends yet. Although he seems defensive in his accusations a bit I feel like this is actually quite town indicative because I would expect scum to be less defensive to try to stay under the radar. While you could argue that scum is also very defensive at points in this game, the fact that there has been very little information in this game so far and the fact that only a subset of the people are actually engaged in this, I think Roden is town because scum!Roden would just coast more because that's what some of the playerbase is doing. He would not post so much to bring more attention to himself.

StrangeMatter - I disagree with the notion that he's conftown because of his latest posts. Most of the time scum wins because they're way more towny later on and because most of the town mainly focuses on posts made later. As stated previously scum is usually less scummy later on because they've actually been accustomed to how town plays and can blend in more. I kind of scumread him a bit during the middle of reading the thread, mainly through posts like 34, and that kinds of ping me. That said, the fact that his playstyle seems to be consistent throughout most of the game would make this unlikely, so he's still a townlean. Not conf though and I can't rule him out.

The Bulge - Most of the analysis and explanation towards the situation with Roden seems fairly towny. Examples are in posts 168 and post 180.

Now, I do think it’s much easier to read people through interactions so none of these reads are set in stone. I didn't explain that much in my townleans and I'll do so later should they remain townleans by then. As of now I think scum lies between {ItalianoVD, Illwei, Bimblesticks}. Bimblesticks doesn’t have any posts which are scum indicative, but inactive people are usually scum, so should be taken into consideration. That said, I don’t want the first day lynch to be based on someone inactive because their flip, red or green, provides almost no information. This means I theoretically want the lynch to be on ItalianoVD or Illwei. So since I think a Illwei flip provides more information:

VOTE: Illwei

so now i got u + nora sheeping my poe. pog thats a first /s

but now nora scumreads roden -- im just so hard null on roden and hard town on sm, that i dont know how to solve roden lol

[GrandpaMo]

Ok ngl. I thought that huge roden wallpost was Strangematters and skimmed it and figured Strangematter was 100% scum for coming in like that despite roden receiving heat right now. now that I see that is roden's post, I take back the TR. I still pretty firmly believe there is scum in {Roden, Strangematter}
im not sure how to explain it but I do think there has to be scum there. I'm leaning Roden scum again.
Idk I am not sure what to think at this point like roden is making me feel bad but I still think that roden is just scum here.

I'm more willing to wait til tomorrow to assess roden because I feel like he could very easily just be town that I went to town on and everyone is now tunneling him because I low-key painted him in a bad light from all of that.

I would say we leave roden alone for today and revisit him tomorrow. that's my opinion here.

lol ur so town for this .. that was literally my thought process thru out that...

and i def agree

[GrandpaMo]

yall pfps are similar

wow

don't like #195 tbh. feels like all consensus opinions that he had to "think on a while to reach"

Roden, I hope you've had a good night's sleep and are in a better mood today. have you had a chance to reread our exchange from last night at all?

this doesn't give me good vibes

wow this sounds self conscious. idk weak point but important enough that I'll mention it.

people can be self consicous and it not be AI

these seem like filler logs -- you come in to the thread talk about how you don't like something and leave and never addressing the two possible votes on you.

and never talk about anything else.

i have a question do you scumread bimblesticks then ? becuase u say u dont like their post in 195. just answer that question and i will have a 100% response to u

[GrandpaMo]

For the record, I did replace in because I saw you and GrandpaMo in the player list on page one, but didn't read anything else about the game, or have any opinions on any slot, let alone yours.

wait why

to be more specific, you joined because of me and noraa?

cabd u were one of my mod -- is there a specific reason of me im intrigued now

[GrandpaMo]

Right now the person I'm the least certain on anything right now is Bimblesticks. Really want them to participate in the conversations more to read anything conclusive on them.

VOTE: Bimblesticks

ok i think this confirms there is scum between bimble v illwee.

thanks for making it easier

[GrandpaMo]

these seem like filler logs -- you come in to the thread talk about how you don't like something and leave and never addressing the two possible votes on you.

what would you like me to say to them?
if you find me you find me if you don't then you don't

what lol

ok then... let me ask u what makes bimble scum?

and do u have any townreds?

also what do you feel about roden?

and what do u feel about the scumreads on you? including mine

[GrandpaMo]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bimblesticks & Illiwee is actually the scum team. Both are individually scummy and voting each other for bad reasons, such as "I actually think the other people is town." It's a possible scenario that both seem to exert pressure on their scum partner by voting them but not actually going through with the reasons why they should be voted or lynched. My vote stands where it's currently at, as such.

I'll have to re-read Noraa v. Roden again, as well as looking more into Bulge so I can get a proper read.

ok im gonna townread u for this -- i think we both had the same thought process here. there is a possibility that they could be bussing each other for towncred but it just imo feels like too easy of a sitatuion. i just had that if bimble was town then ilwee was scum and vice versa

if it is -- then damn it is one of a not formulated bus lol

[GrandpaMo]

dont like grandpa mo anymore. yay life is beautiful.

can you explain why? i think i will townread you more for this -- i doubt you as scum would be scumreading me here, i don't think you would take that risk especially when we already had the same thought process of the voting pool between italiono, illwee, bimblesticks, and that other 4th person i forgot(going on top of my head)

but yea can u explain ? it just feels like you were sheeping me and then u scumreading me ;-; , it may be a playstyle thing tho

[GrandpaMo]

I agree with this sentiment - reading through this thread took twice as long bc of the amount of stuff I had to read from GrandpaMo, most of which I don't think was really necessary.

this post is very hypocritical. because you used up that space to talk about something i already addressed it in post 222, 223, and 224 which norra never answered my question -- but it's okay it doesn't really matter.

i am working on it. i apologize -- this has been a theme in all my games, if you decide to search up my playstyle/meta. im signing up in newbie games to work on it haha

[GrandpaMo]

You'll have to figure that one out on your own, spoilers are no fun.

when r u gonna drop ur reads m8

[GrandpaMo]

My question to you is, why DON'T you care about the votes on you? As town, you want to get enough information as possible, so if you are getting voted by people who may possibly be scum, you would want to address why they're voting you so you could possibly sort out the alignments of your votes

Gotta be completely honest I don't follow this one bit tbh.

I think it might be the fact that I can't comprehend the statement "enough information as possible" tbh. Because. that...just...doesn't...
well.

They say why they're voting on me tbh, so why would me engaging in that matter at all? If I feel the need to defend then I will but to be frank, I don't have the energy right now, and I don't see how defending myself would help me sort them.

reference to post 312. please don't ignore my questions here. i feel like these would help us as town solve ur allignment better if you explain your reasonings on a few things i have pointed out.

[GrandpaMo]

what lol

ok then... let me ask u what makes bimble scum?

and do u have any townreds?

also what do you feel about roden?

and what do u feel about the scumreads on you? including mine

mmm sure

My vote was a statement

There's paranoia but pretty much just nora rn.
overall like bulge but there were a couple things that I didn't tbh. flip that for roden though I guess.

He's felt a bit agressive in the beginning but idk how to read people who are new but not really because they study or something

apathy

hm not the answers i was looking for...

[GrandpaMo]

I have a question about some terms right before I put out my thoughts on the game so far. What is TSTBS and IIOA? Those are terms I see but not really something very new to me.

lol where do u see this -- i havent seen those terms used before

[GrandpaMo]

Based on posts like 369 and 372, though, it's looking less likely that Bimblesticks and Illwei are scum together, so should one of them flip red the other one is very likely to be town.

omg i love this game already -- like pls scum kill me night 1 pls

[GrandpaMo]

Since Noraa replaced out I think reading the Noraa/Roden case in early pages is going to be a moot point now, and how I read Ydrasse moving forward will help me determine his alignment. Based on Noraa's posts I have seen I'm leaning more towards town on that slot, but that can still change based on Ydrasse's posts.

norrra is town pii... norra is town.

dw having paranoia about that spot because most likely nora having that geninue frustration and the early townreads (probably came from scum on norra) makes nora to flip town highly probable.

a very paranoia spot is roden/strangematter those two have very much scum equity but i am leaning town on both.


i act like roden when town AND scum at times and strangematter could be dumbtelling most of the time

[GrandpaMo]

I have a question about some terms right before I put out my thoughts on the game so far. What is TSTBS and IIOA? Those are terms I see but not really something very new to me.

lol where do u see this -- i havent seen those terms used before

It was in my post up above (post 375). I explained them in post 379.

no no not what i mean-- i was saying where have u seen them before (rhetorical question because i feel like its ogi / cheating to say )

[GrandpaMo]

I have a question about some terms right before I put out my thoughts on the game so far. What is TSTBS and IIOA? Those are terms I see but not really something very new to me.

lol where do u see this -- i havent seen those terms used before

It was in my post up above (post 375). I explained them in post 379.

no no not what i mean-- i was saying where have u seen them before (rhetorical question because i feel like its ogi / cheating to say )

In past games I played I've seen those terms (Newbie 2005 & Newbie 2010, for instance).

2005 and 2010 pog /s

but nah, thats cool, ig i just need to play more

[GrandpaMo]

Are we all scumreading Illwee?

StrangeMatter have you explained your scumread? Where did YOUR scumread start from... ?

because it feels like me and piirational are the only one who actually had a geninue scumcase on illwee. (other than bimblesticks )

@strange r u able to scumcase them, WITHOUT saying anything we had already said -- unique info that illwee could be scum?

[GrandpaMo]

Are we all scumreading Illwee?

StrangeMatter have you explained your scumread? Where did YOUR scumread start from... ?

because it feels like me and piirational are the only one who actually had a geninue scumcase on illwee. (other than bimblesticks )

@strange r u able to scumcase them, WITHOUT saying anything we had already said -- unique info that illwee could be scum?

I just realized I made a mistake writing and rushing out my thoughts. To me they're actually null, due to me not reading into them much from the beginning. Plus, I doubt I could make a scumcase without saying anything already said anyways. I just now switched back to a computer, so I'm going to read into them and come back to this. I'll admit that this is a bit scummy, though.

.......

...................................................

[GrandpaMo]

I've just wasted half an hour of my life responding to your lies. I'm becoming sympathetic to Noraa's position of just voting you out regardless of your alignment, you're too annoying to work with and I find it frustrating responding to an argument against me that's just based on nonsense.

god I relate to this whole post so hard. why I didn't respond to 239. bimble's recent string of posts are very very townie.

I agree -- Bimble has proven themselves way more than Illwee -- I doubt they are S/S now. I still thought that Roden V Bimble was just two townies having two different playstyles competing for each others head to say "Aha I got you there!" when in fact -- that can't happen because both have shown no either AI cases because if you analyze what the both were saying to each other, they were just mad at each other just for playstyle.

Also, I see piirational could be bussing Illwee here if Illwee is scum. Does anyone see that?

[GrandpaMo]

GrandpaMo
piisirrational

Hi folks I miss you plz come visit papa cabd.

Hi Cabd, I said something to you awhile back when you replaced in but you ignored meee ;-;

Also, I am grandpapa

[GrandpaMo]

I feel like Pii is indidually towny, but with Illwee -- they seem scummy.

I have a question (anyone can answer this) ... How do I as town, approach a sitatuion for this? Do I overall townread them because they had posts that showed their towniess? Or do I scumread them overall, because associative with Illwee -- they could have been just sheeping me to follow a bus on them.

[GrandpaMo]

To me, Roden reads as somebody incredibly frustrated by the game and people's perception, and determined to feel heard and validated, damn the torpedoes.

I think what grandpamo was saying makes sense to me now, about roden staying this path. I think people on this site too often assume that scum plays optimally at all times and is immune to accidentally weakening their own position (like when people say "why would they make this really sloppy move as scum?" I tend to think "because whatever we were doing worked"). but the statements Roden makes in his moments of passion are so consistently false and nonsensical I'm not sure I'm comfortable reading the reactionary posting as AI after all.

What I am going to say may be controversial so bear with me...

Yea, it also because I am semi-new and just experienced this. As scum, I have done this in my Aliensitter Needed game, I made long posts just trying to confuse town, but I didn't do it on purpose, I actually had those thoughts and wanted to explain them but I just couldn't in a way where someone would understand me. Everyone said I had a weird playstyle and that no-one could have understand me. My first newbie game, my first aggressive interaction I had was with JacksonVirgo, we were both two townies going about it. Then I stopped, and I realized that this could be town only if I stopped though. So I did, JV did as well (in their notes PT, they had acknowledged it and they thought I could be towny because they didn't think newbscum would be this aggressive). After that, I played my first scum game (Aliensitter needed) and played the tryhard scum playstyle which I just explained a few back. Some town game after that ... I also got heated up with another player, I was town and they were town, and I realized they weren't making any sense, weren't answering my questions. But it took me a long time to realize that correlation does NOT cause causation, yup in a game of mafia. Not answering questions, having no clue what they are talking about, long meming posts does NOT mean they are scum. Many people on this site think that is the case though -- they think that scum will always act the best "scummy" they can or act the best "towny" they can. In this case, this is what you were referring about when you said "optimally". So hopefully, in the future, people realize that meta is a tool that can be used. Not many people analyze it especially after them not being newbies anymore. They concur on current games and always correlate from their skillset -- or perceptual set, and mind skillset.

[GrandpaMo]

cabd u were one of my mod -- is there a specific reason of me im intrigued now

This one?

I ALWAYS enjoy getting to moderate a new player then join them in a game down the line. it means I didn't fuck up modding so badly that you left the site screaming in terror.

LOL, yes, I loved your first game. I hope to mod sometime soon and maybe you may be in my game

I will def give you credit in the future for making my stay enjoyable

[GrandpaMo]

I feel like Pii is indidually towny, but with Illwee -- they seem scummy.

I have a question (anyone can answer this) ... How do I as town, approach a sitatuion for this? Do I overall townread them because they had posts that showed their towniess? Or do I scumread them overall, because associative with Illwee -- they could have been just sheeping me to follow a bus on them.

Can I see what pings you as a possibility of those two being scum together?

Can you rephrase your question? Or explain what you mean? Because I am having a hard time understanding this.

[GrandpaMo]

To me, Roden reads as somebody incredibly frustrated by the game and people's perception, and determined to feel heard and validated, damn the torpedoes.

I think what grandpamo was saying makes sense to me now, about roden staying this path. I think people on this site too often assume that scum plays optimally at all times and is immune to accidentally weakening their own position (like when people say "why would they make this really sloppy move as scum?" I tend to think "because whatever we were doing worked"). but the statements Roden makes in his moments of passion are so consistently false and nonsensical I'm not sure I'm comfortable reading the reactionary posting as AI after all.

What I am going to say may be controversial so bear with me...

Yea, it also because I am semi-new and just experienced this. As scum, I have done this in my Aliensitter Needed game, I made long posts just trying to confuse town, but I didn't do it on purpose, I actually had those thoughts and wanted to explain them but I just couldn't in a way where someone would understand me. Everyone said I had a weird playstyle and that no-one could have understand me. My first newbie game, my first aggressive interaction I had was with JacksonVirgo, we were both two townies going about it. Then I stopped, and I realized that this could be town only if I stopped though. So I did, JV did as well (in their notes PT, they had acknowledged it and they thought I could be towny because they didn't think newbscum would be this aggressive). After that, I played my first scum game (Aliensitter needed) and played the tryhard scum playstyle which I just explained a few back. Some town game after that ... I also got heated up with another player, I was town and they were town, and I realized they weren't making any sense, weren't answering my questions. But it took me a long time to realize that correlation does NOT cause causation, yup in a game of mafia. Not answering questions, having no clue what they are talking about, long meming posts does NOT mean they are scum. Many people on this site think that is the case though -- they think that scum will always act the best "scummy" they can or act the best "towny" they can. In this case, this is what you were referring about when you said "optimally". So hopefully, in the future, people realize that meta is a tool that can be used. Not many people analyze it especially after them not being newbies anymore. They concur on current games and always correlate from their skillset -- or perceptual set, and mind skillset.

Wait I forgot Cabd was here, I believe they can back me up on this haha (on my newbie game)

[GrandpaMo]

I feel like Pii is indidually towny, but with Illwee -- they seem scummy.

I have a question (anyone can answer this) ... How do I as town, approach a sitatuion for this? Do I overall townread them because they had posts that showed their towniess? Or do I scumread them overall, because associative with Illwee -- they could have been just sheeping me to follow a bus on them.

Can I see what pings you as a possibility of those two being scum together?

Can you rephrase your question? Or explain what you mean? Because I am having a hard time understanding this.

Can you please point out what makes it seem like they are sheeping you into a bus?

I don't think I will say now.

I don't have a reason to say it now.

Is that okay? Or are you going to force me say it smh.

I just had a question -- since I am interacting with you now.

Do you agree or disagree? Or you don't have the info to tell.

[GrandpaMo]

Yeah I was watching from the nosebleed seats the whole time. Yours is one of the many examples that my "unknown newbie town model" has figured into it for this kind of righteous indignation.

"Unkown Newbie Town Model" = Cabd's Mindmelding Extracting Machine!

[GrandpaMo]

I feel like Pii is indidually towny, but with Illwee -- they seem scummy.

I have a question (anyone can answer this) ... How do I as town, approach a sitatuion for this? Do I overall townread them because they had posts that showed their towniess? Or do I scumread them overall, because associative with Illwee -- they could have been just sheeping me to follow a bus on them.

Can I see what pings you as a possibility of those two being scum together?

Can you rephrase your question? Or explain what you mean? Because I am having a hard time understanding this.

Can you please point out what makes it seem like they are sheeping you into a bus?

I don't think I will say now.

I don't have a reason to say it now.

Is that okay? Or are you going to force me say it smh.

I just had a question -- since I am interacting with you now.

Do you agree or disagree? Or you don't have the info to tell.

Sorry to wade into this line of questioning but would it perhaps be better to reserve this for AFTER ilway flips?

Why do you think I didn't want to say it

Are we having the same thought or were you just thinking of something else similar lol

[GrandpaMo]

I feel like Pii is indidually towny, but with Illwee -- they seem scummy.

I have a question (anyone can answer this) ... How do I as town, approach a sitatuion for this? Do I overall townread them because they had posts that showed their towniess? Or do I scumread them overall, because associative with Illwee -- they could have been just sheeping me to follow a bus on them.

Can I see what pings you as a possibility of those two being scum together?

Can you rephrase your question? Or explain what you mean? Because I am having a hard time understanding this.

Can you please point out what makes it seem like they are sheeping you into a bus?

I don't think I will say now.

I don't have a reason to say it now.

Is that okay? Or are you going to force me say it smh.

I just had a question -- since I am interacting with you now.

Do you agree or disagree? Or you don't have the info to tell.

Sorry to wade into this line of questioning but would it perhaps be better to reserve this for AFTER ilway flips?

Also are you like hard set on Illwee? Cna you explain why?

[GrandpaMo]

I don't think I will say now.

I don't have a reason to say it now.

Is that okay? Or are you going to force me say it smh.

I just had a question -- since I am interacting with you now.

Do you agree or disagree? Or you don't have the info to tell.

I don't have the information to give a reasonable answer to this. I kind of wish you would say now, but you'd better give a good reason if Illwei ends up flipping green.

Okay so I thought you would have said. So now you tell me, how do you expect me for you to tell you how I think about pairs / associations if you aren't willing to look at it for yourself? What makes you think I will tell you now?

[GrandpaMo]

:/ Why must you make such terrible posts after I town read you, Strange?

I told you this is the universe punking me, isn't it?

lol i thought the same thing --

[GrandpaMo]

I don't think I will say now.

I don't have a reason to say it now.

Is that okay? Or are you going to force me say it smh.

I just had a question -- since I am interacting with you now.

Do you agree or disagree? Or you don't have the info to tell.

I don't have the information to give a reasonable answer to this. I kind of wish you would say now, but you'd better give a good reason if Illwei ends up flipping green.

Okay so I thought you would have said. So now you tell me, how do you expect me for you to tell you how I think about pairs / associations if you aren't willing to look at it for yourself? What makes you think I will tell you now?

Because remember, YOU asked me that question regarding pings about a bus. Prove to me that if I were to give you a series of text regarding a possible bus, then how will use that information to your advantage, as town of course. Unless you are scum, feel free to explain either way and give me assurance that you are scum.

[GrandpaMo]

:/ Why must you make such terrible posts after I town read you, Strange?

I told you this is the universe punking me, isn't it?

lol i thought the same thing --

Am I completely off base with 468?

not really -- i was just individially looking at them.

but looking back, i dont think they could be capable of doing that. newbies usually dont think ahead most of the time

[GrandpaMo]

I don't think I will say now.

I don't have a reason to say it now.

Is that okay? Or are you going to force me say it smh.

I just had a question -- since I am interacting with you now.

Do you agree or disagree? Or you don't have the info to tell.

I don't have the information to give a reasonable answer to this. I kind of wish you would say now, but you'd better give a good reason if Illwei ends up flipping green.

Okay so I thought you would have said. So now you tell me, how do you expect me for you to tell you how I think about pairs / associations if you aren't willing to look at it for yourself? What makes you think I will tell you now?

Because remember, YOU asked me that question regarding pings about a bus. Prove to me that if I were to give you a series of text regarding a possible bus, then how will use that information to your advantage, as town of course. Unless you are scum, feel free to explain either way and give me assurance that you are scum.

I'd analyze what they are giving to me, and use that to gauge if they are Town or Scum, based off what is given. If it seems what information is given doesn't seem right or is very inadequate, then I'd put into question the person giving out that information in the first place.

As for that very scummy post, I'd like to first address that I don't scumread others pushing them, but definitely think it's still something should be questioned about. If you think that is chainsaw, then fine, but it isn't, and is only what you think from what I've said.

I do not want to deal with this right now, so I'm going to come back to this game later.

What post are you referring about?

[GrandpaMo]

Illwee

are you trying to provoke a reaction?

no what

i always refereed u to as illwee because i forgot how ur name was spelled but i knew how it sounded like lol

[GrandpaMo]

cabd/Mo scumteam solved it

you may just be tstbs

[GrandpaMo]

cabd/Mo scumteam solved it

you may just be tstbs

I'm having issues finding a team that doesn't include ilway on it is the issue.

Like on one hand yeah, that's cute but otoh where the heck is scum if he's town. In my green reads? Yellows? You're quickly rising out of yellow and I'm running out of places I can scumread. Too many townreads. I guess I gotta raise the bar to let people into my heart lest some of them cut their way out?

BRO SAME LOL

im gonna townlean you for having the same thoughts i had before.

i feel like if illwee is town THEN maybe bulge and piirational have scum equity.

i brought up that pii could be bussing here illwee. (i will explain this today once i get back)

scum is playing good then.

[GrandpaMo]

I don’t give analysis when I ask questions, that’s why I ask questions. I also don’t assume things because it annoys me to no end when people do it to me so I ask questions so people can actually answer them.

Can you define "assuming things" because I feel like at least a whole big part of mafia is based on assuming things, even if the assumptions are more of educated guesses?

Sorry, yeah. Non Alignment Indicative

Basically Italian's questioning feels uberpointless because he's asking a question that doesn't need to be asked
Bak could have had some sort of scummy answer to that question, but really never a towny one.

Bak could have had some sort of scummy answer to that question, but really never a towny one.

I don't understand this logic at all. What do you mean?

There's no reason someone could give for "why didn't you respond to the vote on you" that would make me think they're town, but there's plenty of things they could say that would be ehhhh

My question to you is, why DON'T you care about the votes on you? As town, you want to get enough information as possible, so if you are getting voted by people who may possibly be scum, you would want to address why they're voting you so you could possibly sort out the alignments of your votes

Gotta be completely honest I don't follow this one bit tbh.

I think it might be the fact that I can't comprehend the statement "enough information as possible" tbh. Because. that...just...doesn't...
well.

They say why they're voting on me tbh, so why would me engaging in that matter at all? If I feel the need to defend then I will but to be frank, I don't have the energy right now, and I don't see how defending myself would help me sort them.

small collection of town posts from illwei.

100 was good.

will be here more tomorrow maybe. have some thoughts in mind.

Illwei, if you don't want to get voted today, I'd appreciate it if you answered some questions:

1. Why did you vote for me? What is your read on me at the moment, considering you haven't unvoted?

2. Why have you been reacting to everything with apathy? Do you just not care about this game?

3. Do you genuinely belive cabd/mo are the scumteam? Can you not understand why people are suspicious of you?

Also, I disagree with Ydresse that Post 363 is a town post. The argument made here doesn't make sense, townies should obviously want as much information as possible and to pressure people that vote for them.

its like ydra, my townread from before, says something regarding illwee being town then im like ok i can see how that can come froma town mindset but then bimblesticks also reaches out to the other side of my head. will they be that aggressive? just to get illwee out?

[GrandpaMo]

Hello friends - I have arrived

I have played with most of the other players in that game, so that is fun

UNVOTE:

Anyone want to help get me caught up?

heyo!!!

nice to meet u again


last time i played wit u, i was scum. first time i played wit u i was town. ig things have changed from then -- im trying different playstyles etc.

anywyas
hi

r u updated? also hru

[GrandpaMo]

hardclaim cop

gonna check cabd tonight bay-bee

me gonna have to cc u

[GrandpaMo]

Huh. Hate the cop claim --- Your slot was both not in danger of being voted out and not in danger of being the NK :/

dw i cced for u

u can scumread pii now lol

[GrandpaMo]

I feel like this game was moving along nicely, and then sang and grandpa both decided to swerve into traffic going the wrong way :/

LOL OMG

STOP PLS

DONT FOCUS ON THE CC NOR THE CLAIM. IF you are scum you will do this to actually out the real prs if i were to be fake. And if I were to be real, you may be equating pressure for me to claim. Do NOT ever ever if you are town, focus on claims like these. It's just my playstyle and completely NAI for me to cc and meme around just FYI.

ok back to the game

[GrandpaMo]

also its like very obvious that sang was joking fyi. it was there rvs shit post ... well thats what i thought it was ;eyes:

[GrandpaMo]

Even if you're both kidding you have done serious harm to the nature of a semi-open setup and you're causing movements in the waters that you normally hide folks to stir up and become potentially exposed. Sit down and time out and think about what you've done. No kibble or soup for you.

but...

but-

i just wanted to have some fun as town:(

[GrandpaMo]

Even if you're both kidding you have done serious harm to the nature of a semi-open setup and you're causing movements in the waters that you normally hide folks to stir up and become potentially exposed. Sit down and time out and think about what you've done. No kibble or soup for you.

yes sir...

[GrandpaMo]

I feel like this game was moving along nicely, and then sang and grandpa both decided to swerve into traffic going the wrong way :/

LOL OMG

STOP PLS

DONT FOCUS ON THE CC NOR THE CLAIM. IF you are scum you will do this to actually out the real prs if i were to be fake. And if I were to be real, you may be equating pressure for me to claim. Do NOT ever ever if you are town, focus on claims like these. It's just my playstyle and completely NAI for me to cc and meme around just FYI.

ok back to the game

@Grandpa, I do not think that you currently understand my point, but I cannot make myself clear atm

I have thoughts - but want to see what Sang has to say about the CC before I drop them

Going to reiterate what Luke just said we really need a response before we can start dropping resolutions.

i left this for sang just in case lol

[GrandpaMo]

bruh i cant even have fun wtf

[GrandpaMo]

DGB rule very rapidly starting to apply here....

whats thats also

i retract if its not obvious enough i was just joking lol

[GrandpaMo]

What is even the point of CCing if you are just going to immediately say "ahahhaha it is NAI from me and a joke!!" I'd at least wait longer to see what happens

no.

see this is scum.

why do you wanna wait to see what sang wants to say?

did you want to sang to actually CLAIM cop there? and get a cc on me so u could figure out who is real or not?

[GrandpaMo]

DGB rule very rapidly starting to apply here....

whats thats also

i retract if its not obvious enough i was just joking lol

actually no u dont get to tell me what to do >:(

i retract my retract , i will cc sang because i want to smh

sang pls let me be cop for this day mwah

u can have tmr if ur alive by then

[GrandpaMo]

Grandpa, the issue here is that, if you are town, you cc'ing sang hurts the town --

Regardless of you telling the truth or "joke" ccing...
Regardless of sang telling the truth or fake claiming...

There is no scenario where you cc'ing there helps the town win, but there are plenty of scenarios where it could make the town more likely to lose.

There is a difference between wanting to have fun and joking around, and actively hurting the town. Your cc was the latter, and so yeah, it frustrates me. I am in this game trying to win, and I just saw you doing something that makes it harder for that happen :/

I mean I can have some pretty light hearted posts in a game (looks back at the unnecessarily flowery letter I wrote for cabd) -- but, I try to make sure that when I am being light hearted and having a good time, I am not hurting my own (and my teammates) win condition

holy fuck -- yall are taking this way much into fucking seriousness.

first -- who said sang's claim was real??

second -- im obviously joking and i already retracted since no one could pick up that joke.

sang claimed cop with a check on someone . its day 1 -- thats an obvious meme shit.

then i ccced saying i wanted to be cop for the day lol.

also whoever is on this -- scum is taking very much great advantage to try and out prs now because of talking bout it.

so i will say this again and reiterate. drop this convo. this is literally just reiterating NAI stuff. i did this out of memes, i do this shit a lot on mafia.gg

whoever continues to have this discussion, is purposefully trying to out me as vt, or another pr, or even sang as prehaps the real cop or just vt. scum advantages regardless.

i already retracted -- and said to town to not focus on it because its more of playstyle.

[GrandpaMo]

no offence but it's not nai and you doing this has become an Event that people have to talk about because of the posts that happened, so you don't get to tell people to not focus on it.

my take is that it was a very dumb thing to do and you should know better for next time.

no. just because i cced, how could it be my fault for town to follow up on it being real? luke is just assuming sang's claim is real. and cabd is just having prehaps town paranoia. the point is, is that it was obvious it wasn't a real claim. that's what im trying to say here. it shouldn't have been taken as a real claim either way. luke knows my playstyle, idk why this is getting fed up with them. they know i wouldn't do something like that as town or heck even as scum.

[GrandpaMo]

that's why im confused by the whole thing.

im just saying to not focus on it too much because i already done my part and knew that the village got confused, hence why i retracted. since i retracted and u know that im not ccing anymore, then you should know to stop putting me in narratives where i cced cop because i retracted. yall keep doing that and heck the real cop might finally claim to clear up the confusion. that is why im saying to stop. i done my part and hopefully sang will do too. i hope this makes sense / is understandable.

[GrandpaMo]

Grandpa, the issue here is that, if you are town, you cc'ing sang hurts the town --

this implied that you had knew that sang's claim was real. i was going by that @lukewarm

also

i misread it, my apologies. still tho, i doubt a semi newb will play like that. they must have other games where they are pr and never revealed like that.

time to metacheck

[GrandpaMo]

Regardless of sang telling the truth or fake claiming

Here is me saying that it does not matter whether it was real or not.

that was me...

[GrandpaMo]

Grandpa, the issue here is that, if you are town, you cc'ing sang hurts the town --

this implied that you had knew that sang's claim was real. i was going by that @lukewarm

also

i misread it, my apologies. still tho, i doubt a semi newb will play like that. they must have other games where they are pr and never revealed like that.

time to metacheck

no, but honestly, even if they weren't joking. why take the time and start a discussion correlating it with sang's claim? doesn't scum benefit from this discussion?

heck me and sang both retracting will make it obvious that we could be most likely probable vt's

[GrandpaMo]

ok looking at their games, they started in micro games, this is prehaps an alt of a se player that decided to play in newbies that last 2 games.

so if u rlly want to analyze it -- this is highly unlikely..

[GrandpaMo]

Lukewarm, the issue here is that, if you are town, you cc'ing sang hurts the town --

Regardless of you telling the truth or "joke" ccing...

Regardless of sang telling the truth or fake claiming

...

Sorry, I just fucked up the quote. It was me

no still me

[GrandpaMo]

Okay -- my first step of meta homework was to go back to the Aliensitter game -- where you claimed it was NAI, to see how you presented it as NAI. I was hoping you linked games where you did it as townie, but this is what I got

ps: i love claiming pr as VT. i use to do all the time in voice mafia / mafia.gg especially considering the fact that i could throw mafia off. and i have gained a habit of doing so as town/scum (that's why you shouldn't really focus on my claim being AI) all the time in a game. and yes sometimes, I do uh throw by accident and don't realize I get actual town pr condemned lol. but its more of in closed games i do it and this isn't a closed game which is like eh i guess i could do it but i would need to adapt dynamic playstyle where specific town knows what I am doing and scum doesn't just to throw scum off.

In that game, you said that you normally do that in closed setups -- so why did you decide to do it in this kind of set up?

In that game, you claimed that to cc as town would "basically be throwing" and that sometimes you "thrown by accident" -- if you are aware of that risk, why did you do it in this game?

I was hoping for links of times you have done this as town, but there were none. Can you link any town example for me now?

oh i forgot this game was newbie LOL

LMFAOOO aye yo this whole time i was thinking this was an open setup wit like cop and medic

im so embarrased anyways um shh

[GrandpaMo]

Okay -- my first step of meta homework was to go back to the Aliensitter game -- where you claimed it was NAI, to see how you presented it as NAI. I was hoping you linked games where you did it as townie, but this is what I got

ps: i love claiming pr as VT. i use to do all the time in voice mafia / mafia.gg especially considering the fact that i could throw mafia off. and i have gained a habit of doing so as town/scum (that's why you shouldn't really focus on my claim being AI) all the time in a game. and yes sometimes, I do uh throw by accident and don't realize I get actual town pr condemned lol. but its more of in closed games i do it and this isn't a closed game which is like eh i guess i could do it but i would need to adapt dynamic playstyle where specific town knows what I am doing and scum doesn't just to throw scum off.

In that game, you said that you normally do that in closed setups -- so why did you decide to do it in this kind of set up?

In that game, you claimed that to cc as town would "basically be throwing" and that sometimes you "thrown by accident" -- if you are aware of that risk, why did you do it in this game?

I was hoping for links of times you have done this as town, but there were none. Can you link any town example for me now?

also ur statement -- isnt this a closed setup? im doing it now in a closed setup lmao . i also done this before in my 2nd ever game? im tryna remember but i remember meme claiming a pr and everyone getting mad at me then lol!voting me

[GrandpaMo]

also

i think this sticks now

VOTE: Bimblesticks

i still think there is scum between illwee and bimble and both have the same liable scum equity.

plus since everyone know is townreading illwee for some reason. im totally cool for any vote regarding the two.

[GrandpaMo]

I have a hero solve but idk if I wanna out it yet

same lol

[GrandpaMo]

oh i forgot this game was newbie LOL

Can you guess what one fact makes me really squint hardly and lose a few brain cells trying to believe this?

I KNOW SHUSH

PLS I ACTUALLY FORGOT

i just played an all stars setup yesterday wit vigi, cop, and medic pls

[GrandpaMo]

cabd why do you scumread Illwei i.e. please explain the generic newbie scum model

can i pitch in

[GrandpaMo]

cabd why do you scumread Illwei i.e. please explain the generic newbie scum model

can i pitch in

no

damn

also question, out of that roden and norra interaction you had analyzed just earlier.

who do u think had more scum equity and do u think any of them is scum rn?

[GrandpaMo]

Replacing into this game through the normal replacement method is impossible. You expliclty sought out the newbie queue where the replacement request was located... You forgot it immediately? Despite it being a newbie being discussed by several players? I mean I've gotta take that to mean you aren't reading posts and uh.

i didnt replace and 3 part is like half true

unless u arent talking me then sorry

[GrandpaMo]

cabd r u scum

[GrandpaMo]

GrandpaMo replaces gray.

in the future, please do not post until i announce the replacement.

Wtf you are a replacement dude.

Says so right there.

bru wtf is wrong wit me today -- im referencing other games

i cant talk about ongoing games but yea

[GrandpaMo]

I can, and I read that wrong.

that's been you all game.

after multiple pressure from me including, you have seen to be correcting yourself.

after all these townreads on you, you just might be scum that has incredibly increased your scum equity.

but you literally have been getting stuff very much wrong since the beginning, and placing purposeful stuff out of context and no one has been noticing but me i suppose.

dw, im watching you strangematter. while everyone is townreading you, you may or may not be scum afterall...

[GrandpaMo]

i keep cringing whenever i remember that cabd replaced italiano

i literally forgot everyone in this game that was a replacement even myself LOL

[GrandpaMo]

[quote="In post 762, Lukewarm"][/quote]

no no i know this setup was a newbie setup but at that moment i had forgot and this is because i had played the day prior an all stars setup wit the roles i mentioned. (thru video mafia -- it was fun)

dont take this as a dumbtell or slip -- but more of just me forgetting which can be either scum or town, i dont really would think its AI if u were to do something like that luke.

if i had a towncase on you and you did something like that -- that is something i would ignore to put in.

you should look at it from the general prospective and not this specific interaction on why you think im town, because u had me right!

[GrandpaMo]

I promised I would give a list of my reads, so here goes:

TR

: The Bulge, Ydrasse

TL

: Cabd

NTL

:

N

: GrandpaMo, Lukewarm

NSL

: StrangeMatter

SL

:

SR

: Illwei

I've left sang froid out because part of me wants to believe he's lying about his claim. Being a genuine role cop and claiming it D1 in a game with this set-up feels like such an unbelievably stupid move that I'm leaning towards him being VT trying to cover for PTs or scum trying to pretend to cover for PTs. Where I sort him depends a lot on whether or not he survives with results tomorrow.

In response to those arguing I'm scum, I haven't been involved in too many conversations this game so I can't really make an argument in defense of myself, other than to say that I think Illwei is more suspicious. They've generally avoided giving strong answers to questions or giving their own opinions on people, using excuses about how they don't know or don't care. Here are a few examples:

Leaving out your thoughts is kind of like pushing someone scummy, but not really explaining why they are pushing that person.

lmao that's all i do, nice to know

This one is bizarre. Why make posts without explaining your reasoning?

Where is everyone right now, I get that discussion is a bit harder with a person VLA, and one has to be replaced, but 6 other people aren't even talking at all. That kind of seems like a waste of a day to have no discussion whatsoever. So can those 6 people explain why they're not talking right now?

Don't expect me to be so active, I joined this game because I don't have so much time during the days anymore but still wanted to play a game, so I figured one that wasn't 48/24 would be easier for my schedule.

This one in particular is weird to me, only a little bit into the game he's already setting a low standard for himself, saying we shouldn't expect him to engage much.

A statement on what? "apathy" How do you feel apathetic about three people reading you as evil?

my dear bimble
if only I could feel anythin but apathy rn tbh

Illwei, if you don't want to get voted today, I'd appreciate it if you answered some questions:

1. Why did you vote for me? What is your read on me at the moment, considering you haven't unvoted?

2. Why have you been reacting to everything with apathy? Do you just not care about this game?

3. Do you genuinely belive cabd/mo are the scumteam? Can you not understand why people are suspicious of you?

Also, I disagree with Ydresse that Post 363 is a town post. The argument made here doesn't make sense, townies should obviously want as much information as possible and to pressure people that vote for them.

1. because whatshisface didn't. their post read like something they wanted to pressure, and then they didn't add pressure, and I was like ???? but brain doesn't work so that was my way of expressing that.

2. my dude I don't care about life right now, but there have been so many sub outs already and I subbed out of my last MS game so I am here out of sheer stubbornness

3. No. That was a joke. because they are both repeatedly spelling my name how it sounds and not how it is spelled, but they both seem to hear it differently. I found it funny lol.

Number 2 here just feels like a really easy way to avoid having to explain yourself.

I want to talk but I dread posting because I'm going to be expected to solve and I am too lost to solve right now if that even makes any sense

This is a game of mafia, and there are people scumreading you. You don't have to solve everything but some pushes or opinions on recent events would be nice.


I totally understand and emphasise with the argument that scum would want to appear engaged, but, to dabble in WIFOM, Illwei's apathy feels like a really easy way to avoid having to engage and talk (as the more you talk, the more likely people are to scumread what you say), while still keeping this aura of town (after all, why would a townie act this apathetic?).

fuck these reads look towny af.

hol up let me explore this for one minute

UNVOTE:

VOTE: StrangeMatter

[GrandpaMo]

*cop, not role cop.

wait is that a slip?????


LOL

[GrandpaMo]

Spoiler:

I promised I would give a list of my reads, so here goes:

TR

: The Bulge, Ydrasse

TL

: Cabd

NTL

:

N

: GrandpaMo, Lukewarm

NSL

: StrangeMatter

SL

:

SR

: Illwei

I've left sang froid out because part of me wants to believe he's lying about his claim. Being a genuine role cop and claiming it D1 in a game with this set-up feels like such an unbelievably stupid move that I'm leaning towards him being VT trying to cover for PTs or scum trying to pretend to cover for PTs. Where I sort him depends a lot on whether or not he survives with results tomorrow.

In response to those arguing I'm scum, I haven't been involved in too many conversations this game so I can't really make an argument in defense of myself, other than to say that I think Illwei is more suspicious. They've generally avoided giving strong answers to questions or giving their own opinions on people, using excuses about how they don't know or don't care. Here are a few examples:

Leaving out your thoughts is kind of like pushing someone scummy, but not really explaining why they are pushing that person.

lmao that's all i do, nice to know

This one is bizarre. Why make posts without explaining your reasoning?

Where is everyone right now, I get that discussion is a bit harder with a person VLA, and one has to be replaced, but 6 other people aren't even talking at all. That kind of seems like a waste of a day to have no discussion whatsoever. So can those 6 people explain why they're not talking right now?

Don't expect me to be so active, I joined this game because I don't have so much time during the days anymore but still wanted to play a game, so I figured one that wasn't 48/24 would be easier for my schedule.

This one in particular is weird to me, only a little bit into the game he's already setting a low standard for himself, saying we shouldn't expect him to engage much.

A statement on what? "apathy" How do you feel apathetic about three people reading you as evil?

my dear bimble
if only I could feel anythin but apathy rn tbh

Illwei, if you don't want to get voted today, I'd appreciate it if you answered some questions:

1. Why did you vote for me? What is your read on me at the moment, considering you haven't unvoted?

2. Why have you been reacting to everything with apathy? Do you just not care about this game?

3. Do you genuinely belive cabd/mo are the scumteam? Can you not understand why people are suspicious of you?

Also, I disagree with Ydresse that Post 363 is a town post. The argument made here doesn't make sense, townies should obviously want as much information as possible and to pressure people that vote for them.

1. because whatshisface didn't. their post read like something they wanted to pressure, and then they didn't add pressure, and I was like ???? but brain doesn't work so that was my way of expressing that.

2. my dude I don't care about life right now, but there have been so many sub outs already and I subbed out of my last MS game so I am here out of sheer stubbornness

3. No. That was a joke. because they are both repeatedly spelling my name how it sounds and not how it is spelled, but they both seem to hear it differently. I found it funny lol.

Number 2 here just feels like a really easy way to avoid having to explain yourself.

I want to talk but I dread posting because I'm going to be expected to solve and I am too lost to solve right now if that even makes any sense

This is a game of mafia, and there are people scumreading you. You don't have to solve everything but some pushes or opinions on recent events would be nice.


I totally understand and emphasise with the argument that scum would want to appear engaged, but, to dabble in WIFOM, Illwei's apathy feels like a really easy way to avoid having to engage and talk (as the more you talk, the more likely people are to scumread what you say), while still keeping this aura of town (after all, why would a townie act this apathetic?).

fuck these reads look towny af.

hol up let me explore this for one minute

UNVOTE:

VOTE: StrangeMatter

wait nvm there is like 7 hours left

VOTE: bimblesticks

can u claim bimble?

fixing the spoiler tag so that it doesn't glitch out the vote counter ~D

[GrandpaMo]

Grandpa is town

Literally every post that Grandpa has made since I gave him this townread has made me feel like I am back in the Aliensitter game. If I had not back read his iso, he would be lock scum atm -- but, I really did like his early iso for town

:conflicted:

also im suprised u dont see me playing way different then that game lol

pls dont be like vfp and scumread me because of like bias ehm ehm

[GrandpaMo]

why did i die again?

smh my reads were right, illlwei u scum