Newbie 2068 | Lofi Beats to Play Mafia To | Game Over

[NorwegianboyEE]

The world shakes

The trees tremble

An replacement moves in

All remain quiet and stare with anticipation

As the new slot comes in

[NorwegianboyEE]

All,

I am so sorry I am so late to the thread - you've all given me so much to think about, so it has taken me a little while to gather my thoughts and process it all.

One advantage of waiting until there has been a bit of back and forth is that one can start to get a sense of how the game is going to go, and start to make some initial reads. Lots to unpack here, so I'll get straight to it.

First!

I don't like this post. Clearly, post 6 is not post 1, and lying to us straight out of the bad is not a good look. In fact, I propose that we should make it a sort of agreement between us that if any of us are caught lying - about anything - we should give strong consideration to eliminating said person as a result. In addition, the whole post - the content, the tone, the context in which it was posted just gives me a general sense of unease. It was a gut read initially, but I think it's clear I was considering

MiniMegabyte

as at least a slight leanscum here already. Hence far, I have to say the rest of the players are null reads, which considering how advanced the game state is we can start to stop chucking random votes around, this took me a surprise - I was about to say we have some very good mafia players here, but then it occurred to me that if you were truly that skilled you would have convinced me to give you at least a slight townread by now.

(inserts shaking hands emoji here)

Ahh, and here is it; the smoking gun that grants some confidence to that earlier gut read. I am aware of the existence of confirmation bias, so I have gone through all the contributions

MiniMegabyte

has made very carefully several times to try and guard against that, but no -

MiniMegabyte

is a strong scum read at this point. Let me explain.

MiniMegabyte

is clearly trying to insinuate that she has no personal knowledge of

VFP

, particularly as this comes of the back of

VFPs

explicit (and as it turned out - also false) statement that they don't know

anyone

in the game. Also of interest is the actual emoji chosen here - a handshake. Between two persons. To the exclusion of the rest of the group. See where I am going with this? She also specifically and pointedly says "Nice to meet

ya

!" instead of "nice to meet

you

". We all know English is one of those languages where 'you' can refer to a singular or an individual. Using it here would be natural, avoid the wavy red line most modern day browsers would assign to the word, and give her the benefit of the ambiguity if anyone paying attention catches it. Instead, we get the informal 'ya', standing in contrast to 'y'all', which to me is a further indication the introduction is addressed specifically to

VFP

and she wants us to know it.

The question now becomes why? In my view, the only explanation that makes any sort of sense is she wants us to think, even if only subconsciously, that this over the top, public performance is the first time these two have ever came in to contact, and they most definitely have

NOT

already said hi to each other in the scum thread. No sir, definitely not! Nothing to see here folks! Shake my hand and smile!

You might think that this makes

VFP

her scum partner then, and the game is solved. Putting aside my feelings towards how I would feel if my first ever game of Mafia was solved and ended on the first IRL day, I don't actually think this is the case. I think

MiniMegabyte

knew that someone might pick up on the vibes between the two here and our first thought would be that they are scum partners. But equally, perhaps that what they just want us to think? I wish there was some term to describe this, but I've checked the wiki inside out and can't find one, so I have invented one, both to refer to this situation and the approach I think we should take to try and come to some sort of conclusion as to how to deal with it. I call it Written Information Follows Overt Meta (WIFOM) - in other words, when what you see written down is in line with what would be expected from your experience you should assume that it is true. No sane scum player wants to associate themselves so strongly with their scum partner so obviously and early, so when we see it happening, we should assume that ISN'T what is happening, that makes no sense. Thus, this is all a big play, and we can actually rule out

VFP

as the other scum. As an aside, feel free to use that acronym in your future posts, but do try to remember who invented it and give credit every now and again.

There is the open question as to why

VFP

also lied about their association with other players, but I am going to assume for the moment that was a legitimate mistake - I know what I said about eliminating proven liars, but I don't think they would be so fast to walk it back. In contrast, I think

MiniMegabyte

fully expected that "First!" lie to slip under the radar.

So;

VFP

townread,

MiniMegabyte

scumread,b]

everyone else

[/b]null. I think it's pretty clear given that set of reads where my vote should go. I'm going to put my vote where it obviously belongs, and strongly feel that we should make them the elimination for the day. Obviously there is quite a bit of time left before deadline, and I would like to see some more discussion, but I will put my vote on them and see what happens with the rest of the votes. Being the first, I won't be able to hammer, but I want to make it clear that I would be prepared to hammer, and it will take a lot now to convince me to switch my vote.

With all that said: VOTE: T3

holy shit, another flailing scum, is mini + val the scum team?

How is this flailing Grandpa? Do you look at any big text and just say it's flailing?

[NorwegianboyEE]

In post 13, Cook wrote:
CRASH

....

flailing scum

You know,

Cook

was the other person you call 'flailing scum' not more than one page ago. Do we collectively think scum would pay so little attention to the game they would forget who they were calling scum from one page to the next? I'm not so sure myself. Slight towncred for this. On the other hand, calling 3 people scum and not putting your vote on any of them seems scummy, so I guess it's still a nullread over all.

It will, however, be interesting to hear

alstroemeria

inject some thoughts on the implied case you make against them in this post, though - don't think I didn't see it. If you feel that way, you should come straight out and say it, in my opinion.

i don't know if you were serious at all, but I wasn't in any of the posts I made expect for the VFP townread so far. Let me go ahead and actually analyze. You are the type that is more alignment indicitivate when pressure occurs. So if town never pressures you, you are most likely to get away as scum!Val.

First; I do not not know why you are taking any of my reads serious lol as "flailing scum" that should have gave you the hint especially when I replied to your post and realized it was just a BS post to make it seem long, with no content providing and voting someone other than your scumread xD, hence why I just said flailing scum as a joke. So please do not townread me nor scumread me for this.

Second; You contradict yourself in the second statement where you say, "On the other hand, calling 3 people scum and not putting your vote on any of them seems scummy, so I guess it's still a nullread over all. " -- I don't know if this was suppose to be a reaction post, but this quote looks bad for you. It was a RVS vote. Calling 3 people scum (technically two, I don't where you got three from), then continue to say it could be more of "null read" it seems like you were trying to manipulate the context into making it how I could be scum for this lol.

Please elaborate more on that because I don't know if you are trying to like get a specific reaction or what -- but if you deep analyze this quote, you can see how it's bad and you should admit that.

Omg, flailing scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Thats 3 pages, 3 reads! A read per page!

Obliged to scumread you for this LAMIST.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Spoiler:

Why're you so desperate to leave the RVS stage? We haven't even had all players post yet.

My reason for dressing up an RVS vote in the amount of verbiage I did was to make sure there was at least something substantial to discuss. I thought between that, and "hi im new; hah your name suks vote: random" the former would at least give us all something to bite at from page 2, maybe draw out something to work with. I believe it has. As soon as it has, the RVS stage is done, right? We have something serious to discuss.

Secondly, hypocrisy. You made a claim or a suggestion about the scum team, the serious-ness of it is irrelevant. I did the same. Thus 36 I find hypocritical.

You said the same in #38, and I addressed it in #42. I'm not following. I made a claim or suggestion about the scum team. So did you. I said I like that approach, and would like to encourage more of it. You somehow thought that stance was hypocritical. Perhaps I am misunderstand the meaning of the word, but hypocritical to me is engaging in behaviour you criticize others for.

I'll give you benefit of the doubt, I personally think

"as you can see, I am a fan of getting right to the heart of it, and your page 2 solve is just sort of thing I like to see"

is pretty clear I wasn't leveling any sort of criticism and instead praising it, but I'll assume you took something in my tone as somehow sarcastic and I was in fact trying to direct some sort of veiled shade towards you.

I should clarify, "your page 2 solve is just sort of thing I like to see" was a serious statement. I like the fact you came out with a solve straight off the bat - and I was attempting to encourage more of it.

I can't, however, think for the life of me why you would read that and STILL believe I am somehow being disingenuous. In fact, only one scenario makes sense - you are scum, and so hypersensitive to any sort of shade whatsoever that you read it where it isn't there - and in fact, continue to do so when pointed out explicitly that it isn't.

I think anyone reading my ISO can see I've taken a consistent approach here. I make a rando solve, you make one, I say 'good on you, lets have more of that, and maybe have some more discussion about it'. I'm failing to see the hypocrisy.

But in any case, lets compare and contrast your approach here with Town!James in the only completed game I have to look at, namely #2064. For context, you replaced into the game into a slot D1, and having read the thread you quickly postedthis list of reads, with justification for each.

Some of the stuff said here is very interesting -

my personal opinion is post length isn't indicative but can be a nod in a direction with enough context.

I happen to agree. I'll let others read how you opened your town game and compare it to this one, and see if that's context enough for them. It is for me.

he may not enjoy walls, but a "why" wouldn't hurt to have. Meh.

Explains himself, nice

Please post more

It appears he is actually bothered by certain people's post quality and relavance, annoyance at lack of content being created, I'm not very experienced but this just feels towny to me

I mean, its pretty clear that Town!James thinks that talking openly and honestly about your reads and votes, early and often, is pro-town behaviour and based almost all of his initial reads off some variation of that exact justification. You go ahead and, as town, make sure you include your own justification without prompting, from the open.

And then this game, we get this:

Oh well. I am satisfied with my vote.

I'm still happy with my vote.

Yeah, I've seen enough now to convince myself I'm not falling in to OMGUS trap.

VOTE: JamesTheNames

Nice post, didn't read.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don't post anything over 5 lines unless I'm scum.

Ok, scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

RVS sucks

So does a no lim

You take that back!

No, no, James is right, No Elims are strictly bad for town in the majority of situations, from everything I've read, they're

only

good with an even number of players (Such as the day after the JK jails the NK actor or victim, Doc heals the victim, or mafia refrains)

We have 9 players, 7 Town, 2 Mafia. ELo is hit when we have 3/4 Town and 2 Mafia or 2/3 Town and 1 Mafia left.
Assuming that Mafia is able to pull off the NK every night, that means that the possibilities for hitting 3 or 4 town at 2 mafia is limited to NoElim NK, MisElim NK, (4 town) or MisElim NK, MisElim NK (3 Town). If we no-elim, we only have

one

chance to get our elimination wrong and still win the game, but if we vote for someone, even at random, we have a

chance

of hitting scum, still one mis-elim left, and gather information along the way.

tl;dr

never vote no Elim unless there's a

specific

reason for it

You don't have to overexplain it, no lims are just bad. Period.

[NorwegianboyEE]

shh i was memezmerized by Not_Mafia's "flailing scum" I was scum that game and somehow won. so ima use the same tactic to scare scum

Okidoki boomer

[NorwegianboyEE]

Liking James.

[NorwegianboyEE]

A lot of slots with dusty solving but James feels genuine in their aggressiveness. I can see they want to find scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also, I very much dislike how James just left this conversation. This looks bad for you, James.

No.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If I'm not mistaken, the only legal way to take 74 is as a joke, otherwise I think it falls under a trust tell
@Mod, can I get confirmation on if I'm correct with that?

This is scum seeing T3 towntell and then getting mad because it's a "trust tell".
VOTE: Zyla

[NorwegianboyEE]

T3 read goes from dropping like a rock to top town if Zyla is scum here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

As of right now I'm comfy with my vote on James, but like I alluded to in my earlier post, I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the two scum was trying to hide right now. When you consider that the four SEs are T3, VFP, Mini, and Cook, I get nervous that they are generally being quiet while the newbies drive so much of the conversation.

Townie paranoia

[NorwegianboyEE]

anyways, it was suppose to be outta blue for a reason. just because u disagree wit me doesnt mean im scum? thats a fallacy right there. and how can i set up a set up as scum? that would involve 200 iq wifom. it doesnt advantage me if i try to set up alstro because i already sorta townread alstro and i probably think james flips scum here

Ok, you get one chance to convince me.

Why is James scum?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ok, you get one chance to convince me.

Why is James scum?

Is this specifically directed to Grandpa, or would it help if I summarised the case for Scum!James as I see it?

I didn't ask you.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Spoiler:

Feel free to convince me Val.

[NorwegianboyEE]

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ok, you get one chance to convince me.

Why is James scum?

Is this specifically directed to Grandpa, or would it help if I summarised the case for Scum!James as I see it?

I don't read wallposts.
FYI.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Unless they're entertaining.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don't read wallposts.

Ahh. That'll explain why you don't already know the case against James then.

Who said i didn't know? I just didn't read it.
So you gonna summarize and make it readable? What is your best point for scum!James?

[NorwegianboyEE]

By the way, i'm not unable to read the post. But i think this is a nice experiment. Are you, Val. Capable of scum casing James by paraphrazing what you've said and making it very simple. Or is it too hard, in that case. Is the case's complexity exposing it's flaws or exposing it as fake?

[NorwegianboyEE]

He thinks being at the forefront is most fun; and that town should pick out someone they think are acting scum and tunnel on to them, keep the pressure up and find the cracks; whilst he implores people to explain and not to hide what they are thinking.

He just doesn't think that hard enough to actually do that this game.

Oh, and apparently he can read Zyla's mind.

So he says town should tunnel a scummy slot but because he doesn’t keep tunneling slots, that makes him scum?
Is that your case?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I am afraid he doesn't read walls, Grandpa; but he can apparently decide if they are entertaining or not without having read them.

That's some top tier deductive skills, and I'm waiting with baited breath to see it in action during the game.

If i doze off halfway through reading it it’s an unfun wallpost.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Then boom disappears once again.

Now i’m gonna comment on this since you bring it up like a real gotcha moment every second sentence in your post.
What makes it an scummy action from James to post periodically as opposed to him doing something NAI as posting periodically during his coffe break?
Now i ain’t saying James is 100% likely to be town but this feels like an unconvincing case.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: VFP I don't like the fact that you seem to have chosen no-elims on D1 to be a hill you're willing to die on, nor the fact that you implied that you've won multiple games with a D1 no-elim when I can't find any examples

Pushing someone for the reasoning of them: "wanting a no lim" looks really bad for you.
And especially your switch to Grandpa.
I’d wager this up as an unconvincing buss on a scum buddy, or they just pushed VFP for an really bad reason before switching gears to Grandpa.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Zyla has the most chance of flipping scum here imo.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You've established you are a fan of conciseness, and James don't post all that much, but what he does post is consistently inconsistent with his own stated position of how town should/do act.

Town stay inconsistent all the time.
Only scum cares about keeping up an appearance of looking good.
Changing a vote from a player they read as scummy to a new player they read as even more scummy makes sense as an progression so i disagree with your take that it comes from nowhere and that it is necesarilly an scummy act.
I’m not faulting you for the read as i generally think it is an typical reasoning for scumreading slots as an novice town player. But when you’ve played for a bit as i have you learn to recognize town from tells that don’t seem immediately obvious but are clearly there if you know what to look for.

[NorwegianboyEE]

"He's town because he gives no shits about doing this things he says town should do, I'm an SE slot you newb so trust me." I ain't buying that.

Ok, newb.

You buy his read on Grandpa as genuine? Zyla is the other one driving that wagon, and I agree she's likely flipping red here too.

You should vote Zyla.

[NorwegianboyEE]

@NEE, do you think that inconsistent where they implicitly townread Val through them scumreading me, comes from town?

I'm not going to go way hard on this particular point as i'm not James's lawyer, but it is my experience that town sometimes change their reads drastically without sharing the exact thought process. And James here went from saying they scumread Val, to saying they scumread you and that they implicitly townread Val. Why would scum!James neglect mentioning their progression? Now town!James might very well have neglected to mention this point as they simply considered that a world in which Grandpa!scum implicitly meant town!Val.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Anyway i will let this point ruminate as i wait to see James's response to all of this.

[NorwegianboyEE]

For the other part, I 100% think that "I'm the SE, so vote how I tell you" is bad form, although I haven't decided yet rather it's scummy, or someone who thinks they're better at this game than they are

Now you're just blatantly misrepping what i said to discredit me.
I've brought up that i have experience, yes. And i used that as an added supplement for my argumentation. But most of my posting has been used to explain my reasoning for believing James to be more likely town than scum and i've also listened to Val's case and responded as to what i think. So to say that all i've done is say to vote with me because i'm the SE is plain wrong.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It is quite the coincidence indeed that just as Val expressed an reaction to the SE thing Zyla brings up how it's "possibly scummy".

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don't know how else this post is supposed to be taken

First part of 251 was an obvious joke.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also, don't tell us how to vote, tell us

why

to vote.
To paraphrase you: are you capable of summarizing what you've said about me into one easy to read post?

- Your scummy voting pattern.

- Pushing a slot for wanting no lim.

- Calling T3's post an trust tell and pestering mod about it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

PEDIT: no such thing as an obvious joke over text with no tone indicators

[NorwegianboyEE]

What makes it scummy?

The change over to Grandpa when seeing no reaction from your "wanting no lim is scummy" vote on VFP.
I'll give you an chance though since you're here and responding to me.
What makes Grandpa scummy here and why did you change your vote to him?

[NorwegianboyEE]

One particular sentence Zyla said that i doubt comes from town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

@James
I generally think it’s a good idea to have reads on as many slots as possible. But focusing on one slot (i,e the slot you find the most scummiest or want to sort the most) is fine and recommended. Rather than potentially overthinking and coming up with crazy theories that might be completely off the rails.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Especially on day 1.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Self-reminder to check that game VFP and Grandpa is talking about whenever i get on the computer.

[NorwegianboyEE]

E1 or 2 I believe.
I don't sr them but like....

You don't scumread them but put them to E-2/E-1-actuallyi'mnottoosure ?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Let's just do Zyla, this wagon gained votes way too fast from slots i don't really trust.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Should I claim I want to die then?

An lesson. Anyone that get's put to E-1 in the future because of not doing much solving, don't say things like this.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Thats scummy of T3 to unvote there.

Why is it scummy to unvote you?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I am decidedly uneasy about Cook's sudden reappearance, with a vote, just as VFP starts to make themselves look suspicious.

Some of VFP's posts do be making me nervous, not gonna lie.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I am decidedly uneasy about Cook's sudden reappearance, with a vote, just as VFP starts to make themselves look suspicious.

Some of VFP's posts do be making me nervous, not gonna lie.

You only need to be nervous if scum.

What?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Are you just attacking everyone now to put pressure off yourself?

[NorwegianboyEE]

What?

Basically, if you're town, no need to be nervous I won't be getting you.

That's not at all what you said.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Val what do you make of this VFP person?

[NorwegianboyEE]

You only need to be nervous if scum.

Basically, if you're town, no need to be nervous I won't be getting you.

You okay there?

That first post sounded accusatory.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ok i'll chalk it up to communication issues then.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee comes across as different than the game I played with him and I'm not sure why.

pedit: I saw Cook, someone else who voted on the page who I forgot voted. I wasn't sure whether Zyla had voted.

Who even are you?
What game?

[NorwegianboyEE]

T3 should know what my gripe with Grampa is here if town.

Can you explain it to us plebeians that are not chummies with you or T3?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Anyway i will let this point ruminate as i wait to see James's response to all of this.

Did you get what you were expecting, Norwee?

Pretty much yeah.
I don’t think James is scum here, but the extreme tenacity some slots have in continuing to keep that spark of hope that we lim James today alive is quite telling too. And i think you should know who i mean.
I want to keep voting where i currently am, but if Grandpa is within hammer range i might consider nailing the coffin.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I want to say i’ve got reasons to townread GrandpaMo since that makes my scumread of Zyla more likely to be correct. But i don’t.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Last VC was 9 pages ago. How many votes is Grandpa on?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Alright. Gonna put the money where my mouth is.
VOTE: GrandpaMo

[NorwegianboyEE]

i would hammer myself -- but someone did that in another open game and everyone got mad at them. so ill just wait a hammer on me.

Why would you hammer yourself?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I mean you should never want to hammer yourself here, ever. Town or scum. So it really just pings me negatively everytime that line comes from an almost dead player as it’s a pretty strong way to LAMIST by saying you’d do something you never intend to do.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I mean you should never want to hammer yourself here, ever. Town or scum. So it really just pings me negatively everytime that line comes from an almost dead player as it’s a pretty strong way to LAMIST by saying you’d do something you never intend to do.

what? do you want me to do it then?

I don’t have an say on that.
Imo self-hammering is only really an thing i’d consider if i was scum and wanted less information from my flip by cutting the day short or making wagon analyzis harder.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Grandpa is town.

Why do you keep popping in with these reads that have no explanation whatsoever?

[NorwegianboyEE]

These reads from T3 don’t feel real.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Grandpa claiming vt only comes from towngrandpa.

Is this something meta related?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Didn’t read Val’s post on me. But their suspicion has been noted.
Give me a tl;dr if my response is necesarry.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Grandpa seems to just be sticking every kind of read towards the wall here. Especially their Val read was quite sudden and came almost out of nowhere.

@GrandpaMo Have you had this read for a long time, or any previous suspicion. Or did you just now start believing Val could be scum?

[NorwegianboyEE]

You also seem to be quite confident in the strenght of your reads which is generally an odd thing to do so early on day 1 with no hard confirmed flips.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Doesn’t seem half the game is ready for an flip so i’m gonna unvote while i’m at work to see how things progress.
Val is super convinced Grandpa is town anyway, and i think Val is one of the towniest slots in the game so far.
UNVOTE:

[NorwegianboyEE]

If Zyla town then i’m fairly sure it makes T3 scum. But if Zyla is scum then it spews T3 town imo.
Grandpa scum also makes Zyla less likely.

Yeah i could see an Grandpa/T3 team.

More than anything i just want an flip so we get some hard info.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Didn’t read Val’s post on me. But their suspicion has been noted.

It's things like this that fuel that suspicion, Norwee.

If I were scum, how would ever be able to deduce that if you don't read my posts?

Are you actually scumreading me? If yes, i’ll listen. If not, whatever.
I prefer being seen ambigiously anyway by my townreads as it lets me stay in the game and solve for longer.

[NorwegianboyEE]

How? I don't see that. I'm reading VFP leanscum for the same sort of thing, so if this is an actual legit play, I'd like to know how.

Yes. It’s an strategy of not tryharding solving day 1 because there is generally less info and scum might just nightkill you for your level of effort. So instead we play relaxed early on before getting relatively serious later on if scum hasn’t been eliminated yet.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If you become top town day 1 you’re just an easy target. And there is another reason to but i’ll let you figure that one out yourself.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It’s kinda hilarious that in just another newbie game recently i played like this and i got cased by another player just like Val that i openly townread but they didn’t like my relaxed playstyle and cased me as scum and i became day 1 elimination. I was town obviously.
I don’t really want an repeat of that every single game so if Val really insists, i will answer his long walls. But not now as i’m still at work.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think Val might just not be satisfied until he’s dragged everyone up to his level.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm skimming. Is that better?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I could have said i read everything in exhausting detail if i wanted to look really good in this game.
But honesty is an virtue.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You say you don't want to appear try-harding in case you draw the NK, but then that last post makes it's sound like you want us to believe you are honestly only skimming. There is a world of difference between simply outwardly not appearing to solve, and honestly not actually putting in the effort.

Sigh, i’m so tired of always needing to spoonfeed people how my playstyle works.

I already think you are town because of tonal read on you + your level of effort. Hence i am skimming your posts. Not ignoring mind you, but lightly skimming as i am not too concerned with your allignment.

Do you understand now?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don’t need to waste time "solving your slot" as it’s already been solved. Or very close to it.
I’m more concerned with Grandpa now as there are some things pointing to him being town, and some scum. And so i believe a flip there would be very good and informative.

[NorwegianboyEE]

When y’all are ready to move on with the game i’ll revote. Going to sleep IRL now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If i didn’t think scum would have played the way you do i wouldn’t have voted you GrandpaMo.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I actually find it more scummy that it was an spontaneous read than if you’d had suspicion on Val since early on. I was hoping you’d show evidence of an natural progression to explain your reads, but that was not the response i got.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m more concerned with Grandpa now as there are some things pointing to him being town, and some scum. And so i believe a flip there would be very good and informative.

What do you think we could take from Grandpa flipping town?

I know from my perspective if he flips scum, I'm going to seriously reconsidering my read on James, but what do you think we gain from a town flip?

I’d be suspicious of VFP.
T3 too for maybe white knight. None of their interactions have felt genuine there.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I find T3 sus irrespective of the flip tbh. They just ping me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Grandpa claims to have really good meta on T3 being town though. So that might be an potential spew for T3 town if Grandpa flips scum here. I’m considering the possibility that Grandpa pocketed T3.

[NorwegianboyEE]

pls let me live t3. u are literally the only one who knows how i play lol

Is this something you would post to a scum partner?
If Grandpa!scum i’m fairly sure T3 town based on these interactions here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m actually interested in going here now.
VOTE: VFP

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yesterday was insane. Why have all the exciting shit happen at 3 AM for me?
I'm not sure i condone VFP's play here. There is no good reason to hammer yourself as town. No matter how sure you are about your reads.

[NorwegianboyEE]

In a nutshell: Why the heck was Zyla killed?

Why don't you tell me?

I'll check their ISO when i get some time off later. Gotta watch a TV program that begins in 5 minutes.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ok so Zyla reads seem to be:

- Doesn't think T3 is scum. Based on meta.
- Scumreads

VFP

and Grandpa
- Townreads Alstro, James and T3 in reads list. (118)
- Begins to scumread Cook at the end of the day for their sudden vote on

VFP

.

That's all i've got.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So given a Zyla kill i think it makes VFP and Grandpa look the most sus here. I don't see who else would want to kill them.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So given a Zyla kill i think it makes Cook and Grandpa look the most sus here. I don't see who else would want to kill them.

EDIT^

I accidentally said VFP instead of Cook lol.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I would think scum Grandpa would claim PR here. The entire game is scumreading him and his lim is basically inevitable.

That's also a good reason to not claim PR. Because then they don't need to worry about getting counterclaimed and they can argue what you're doing now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

GrandpaMo, please pre-emptively claim.

They already did...

[NorwegianboyEE]

Are you claiming VT?

yea i am

[NorwegianboyEE]

I would think scum Grandpa would claim PR here. The entire game is scumreading him and his lim is basically inevitable.

That's also a good reason to not claim PR. Because then they don't need to worry about getting counterclaimed and they can argue what you're doing now.

May I ask you to summarise your thoughts regarding Zyla at the end of Day 1?

They were leaning scum still.
By the way, when i said this earlier:

One particular sentence Zyla said that i doubt comes from town.

It was referring to this:

No, I was honestly just worried that no one would agree with me and it would look like OMGUS

I found it to be pretty scummy how they seemed to be worried about how their read would be perceived as possibly OMGUS seeing as that's typically something scum do in response to being scumread. It just seemed really self-concious in a scummy way. Obviously it turned out to be a false lead but i just want to explain where my mind was at regarding the slot.

[NorwegianboyEE]

By the way if Grandpa get's limmed like really fast, (even though i prefer more discussion time). Everyone can you please vote for skipping the night phase as soon as is possible? I don't want to wait 2.5 days if Grandpa get's unceremoniously limmed and flips scum here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

What's everyone's read on Cook?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Cook is town and I will not explain why.

When have you ever explained a read?

[NorwegianboyEE]

That means a scum player could pre-empt a hammer, forcing us into ELo tomorrow.

It'd only be ElO if Grandpa is town here.
Is that what you're suggesting?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m getting real tired of T3’s shenanigans in this game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Cook
I’m joining James on this one. I don’t understand Cook’s thought process here. So he scumreads Grandpa but is also afraid of a scum quickhammer that takes us to ElO? And when called out on this nonsensical stance he just votes Grandpa again?
Just... no.

[NorwegianboyEE]

ok so i forgot about this game .. and this is awkward -- i don't where to go since im playing in other games but...

i might need to read the whole game over again so just giv me a sec, and i will probably post a wallpost where it is actually comprehendable

How is it possible to forget an game you played since just two days ago if i may ask?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’ve played multi-games concurrently and never forget anything if i’m at the level of engagement you’ve clearly been in.
Are you sure that’s not an excuse?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why don’t you say who you target instead of having us wait?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Imagine claiming Friendly Neighbor and then having your scum partner confirm an visit.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why don’t you say who you target instead of having us wait?

Val

Where did they say that?

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: T3
Putting my vote here while i wait for Cook/their supposed target.

If Cook get’s confirmed town and T3 was not the target then i’m sussing T3 for their awkward timing and claiming to townread Cook that way.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Them finding a PR crumb (And a very specific one at that) and saying it makes Cook confirmed town just doesn’t feel genuine. It’s possiblr scum!T3 was informed of their role and went about townreading them in an very awkward way.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If T3 was the target of the FN i will let up, but if they target Val as James claims they did i will sus T3 pretty heavily based on this.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I feel like im missing somehting lol

?

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: T3
Putting my vote here while i wait for Cook/their supposed target.

If Cook get’s confirmed town and T3 was not the target then i’m sussing T3 for their awkward timing and claiming to townread Cook that way.

Why would scum point out that tho...? Wouldn't have it been helpful to hide PRs for scum's advantage and silently kill them at night?

It just felt not right. Also the redactions thing -- I doubt they will risk themselves hiding that info. Shit, I did that too lol.

I don’t know if i’m still tired because i haven’t had my coffee yet or what. But i don’t really understand any of the points you’ve just said.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I also suspect Zyla was killed specifically to throw suspicion onto Cook today, which implies that scum didn't spot both (all 3? The signuture changed half way through d1, right?) breadcrumbs yesterday.

That could explain the kill.

Did you spot the crumbs prior to day 2 beginning?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I did, but being as obvious as they were, I wasn't sure if it was a red herring or not before I actually got the mod message; and in any case, I didn't consider appropriate to point them out yesterday.

So you claim to have seen it prior but have no actual evidence of doing so?
That’s a bit sad as it could have 100% confirmed you as town beyond any reasonable doubt if you knew they were PR since then and yet they didn’t die.
I still think you’re likely town but i could have been pretty strong evidence.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It could have been*

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don't think this game will advance any other way than eliminating Grandpa here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

James do you think Grandpa/T3 is the team?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Scum certainly lies in T3 and Mo.

Or did you scumread them individually?

[NorwegianboyEE]

why would he suddenly come out with a hard townread on me when the only thing I did that was remotely town indicative was crumb FN at the start of the game.

That's what i've been saying is sus.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don't think this game will advance any other way than eliminating Grandpa here.

u could be scum for this tho lol

ima just stick my vote to u for now

VOTE: norweignee

You realize i could hammer you right now? Why do you keep making me want to do it?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Then again, would scum!you be this desperate in trying to create a new wagon on town in this position?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Apparently only Val and Alstro are people Grandpa wants to hear the opinion of.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I just think it's a matter or policy to use up as much of the alloted time as possible. I also think I scum read T3 more than GrandpaMo.

We can push T3 tomorrow. I don't think either of Val/Alstro/Cook are going to change their minds.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Hold on while i find an appropiate gif.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: GrandpaMo

[NorwegianboyEE]

We concede.
T3 is obviously the elimination and i see no way to convince people otherwise.
If James roleblocks Alstro i can no kill to fake an guilty but that just means James can Jailkeep me the next night. Town wins.
If James JK’s me it means i can’t kill. Town wins.

Game over.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I would have easily mislimmed Alstro here but because of misplay with nightkills it’s impossible for me to win regardless.
So let’s not waste anymore time.

Town wins. Well played.

[NorwegianboyEE]

B2: Town Jailkeeper and Town Friendly Neighbor VS Mafia Rolecop and Mafia goon.

This setup is almost a bit too punishing for scum as the JK if hidden well can fuck up the scum team by protecting the second PR and confirming a lot of slots town while the mafia can do nothing in retaliation.

I rolecopped Alstro on night 1 and James on night 2. But because T3 got eliminated on day 3 it was an auto loss anyway. Even if i could have limmed Alstro here.
Couldn’t have killed Cook to lower the PoE either as James target them.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I rolecopped Cook on night 1*

[NorwegianboyEE]

So parroting what i said in scum PT.
I don’t think town deserved this win by play. As i could have endgames easily here if Cook and James didn’t both confirm themselves town by their PR play.
Me and T3 also distanced and played fairly well, but we didn’t make the optimal night killing actions as James was the number 1 threat but we couldn’t spot them by either day 1 or day 2. Meaning it became an loss anyways. Which is an bitter end but what can you do.

[NorwegianboyEE]

James get’s the MVP this game from me.
He is the main reason for our loss.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And when it’s me/James/Cook what do you think will happen?

[NorwegianboyEE]

We eliminate Cook?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I may be the bad guy but i’m not dumb lol.
I recognize an auto loss when i see one.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It’s not about whether you win or lose guys. It’s about having a good time. And i had a lot of fun watching you townies tunnel each other.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also VFP, i’m not complaining as it was very helpful to us. But for the sake of your towngame i hope you never self-hammer with that level of confidence when yiu’re wrong again.

[NorwegianboyEE]

James would have been an very good mislim to save for later if he wasn’t PR.
It’s easy to act wise after knowing all of the facts, but James really didn’t show any signs indicating he was a power role.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Especially Zyla’s fake PR slip threw us off.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If i’d been an roleblocker here i would have won this 100%.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Just buss T3 and mislim Alstro after killing James.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You think so? It was a town win as long as I didn't die N2.

This game was won with mechanics is basically what you're saying.