Newbie 2072: All Guns Blazing!! - Ended

[alstroemerial]

*clicks gun or whatever* locked and loaded, baby VOTE: Zyla

[alstroemerial]

Yeah that's why I voted for the last of us alphabetically

[alstroemerial]

I had to search what WotM is on the wiki, but given the few games I've read that not_mafia was in, that doesn't shock me... I will say I'm disappointed that I can't access the last link in his signature to see the full context.

[alstroemerial]

I read that as a scum team accusation

Me too

In terms of Not_Mafia, then, maybe should we do the whole intent-to-hammer+claim shebang at E-2 instead of E-1 then...? More like an "intent to E-1"?

[alstroemerial]

what thing of substance did they bring to this game?

Val was one of the more substantive posters in 2068

[alstroemerial]

Of course, the game picks up as soon as I step away from my computer... Anyway...

I still think since Not_Mafia is at E-2, we should just go ahead and make him the lim for the day rather than piviot to Lukewarm, though. We can deal with him tomorrow.

Even though my play with Val sample size is one (or rather, playing with anyone), this does seem very uncharacteristic. Val last time was self-admittedly really loquacious and consequently a little bit more indecisive. Even before putting his first serious vote on, he really thought it through with a longer post and reasoning instead of just, "welp."

Regarding Val's super long post about Not_Mafia, I interpreted it as a complete joke because nobody should be using that sort of logic seriously, and Val doesn't seem like the type. As a result, Luke's response threw me off a bit because it seemed to be taking it completely at face value. So I wasn't sure if Luke was, like, playing along, or...? Similarly in terms of 40, I'm like, uh, not everyone had posted yet and it was the first page? So I wasn't sure if it was serious or not. I mean, if it was, what I'll say is I was holding myself back from over-posting because I didn't want to monopolize the thread when not everyone had even confirmed yet.

sure it could describe newbie scum, but it could also describe newbie town just as well. those were p1 posts, i dont think its really weird for posts on p1 to seem that way.

Possibly -- When I voted them, I mainly wanted to see how they were going to react to me voting them / saying that they had not really engaged with the game at all -- but then I got side tracked with Val

Come back to me, I want to play with the famous "rising star", as I read someone call you on another thread.

Maybe Val is just strange.

VOTE: alstroemerial[/unvote]

I saw 42 - do you have any thoughts about this game?

Ah here we go -- I have my eye on Zyla a bit already because [ongoing games] but it's more of a lean than a read at this point. My other thought is that I want to keep Not_Mafia around for at least a while because taking him out immediately just because he has a certain... history seems like a recipe for an easy miselim. So I don't love how fast that turned into a wagon, but again, I feel like we're still in a zone where the line between jokes and serious is thin. Jumping on him just because playing with him can be troublesome is too similar to my mistake in 2068 with GrandpaMo. That's one lesson I'm trying to take with me.

What, even, is this interaction, coming on page 2, before the game is even three hours old?

Do we really think Val intends to elim Not_Mafia at this point in the game?

^ A more concise version of what I was trying to get at earlier in this post

[alstroemerial]

In post 73, alstroemerial wrote:
I have my eye on Zyla a bit already because [ongoing games] but it's more of a lean than a read at this point.


In which direction is that lean? I am reading 'having your eye on' as 'scumlean', but I just want to clarify because that could potentially be taken in either direction.

Yeah it's a light scumlean

[alstroemerial]

ebwop: sorry the quote got butchered, I was trying to do the thing where I highlight just the part I want to quote

[alstroemerial]

boo

[alstroemerial]

Normally the 'blowing up nothing into something' bit would ping scum for me, but I just don't think someone whose Topics List has so many games would fall into that trap. I also suspect that their questioning of me was a subtle way to try to sort me, which strikes me as town-like. So if I had to pick I'd give a TL, but everything is like scarcely off of null right now at this stage.

Marci, do you have any thoughts on the game so far? What do you think of Zyla?

[alstroemerial]

Regarding 82... it seems like such an obvious play and right off the bat that it's almost too over-the-top. So yeah, your interpretation is pretty much right. If Luke was to keep pinging me I'll meta-dive more but that's the sense I have so far. It seems almost more likely that Luke was trying to with Val something similar to what he was trying to do with me: putting a little pressure on and seeing what the reaction is.

Regarding 84, yes, for now...

[alstroemerial]

I feel like it's just a thing in every game I've read or been in that Day 1 quickly turns into two people in a fight to the death with each other... Will be catching up with a focus on that whole interaction now

[alstroemerial]

Are you really trying to spin 73 as Alstro having taken me seriously? I can't speak for them, but I have to say it reads pretty clear to me - if they thought you might be "playing along", then they thought there was a joke of some kind to play along with. I'm sure they can weigh in on the issue.

Just so you all are updated, I'm still trying to digest the total interaction, but to clarify what I meant, I thought Val was joking in the original Not_Mafia post, and then got serious once Luke was putting some pressure on. Kidding out of the way, after that, I took 44 seriously, which is why it pinged me as odd. You can take the two paragraphs in that part of 73 as two separate points. First, that Val's post 44 was weird. Second, pointing out that I took 25 as a joke and then consequently wasn't sure how serious to take Luke at first (now I know the answer is serious).

[alstroemerial]

that you were defending a scum partner

Is it pre-flip associations time? Let me get the popcorn.

VOTE: Val

AMA while I read backwards.

Welcome, can you explain this quote and vote a bit more? What you have here is a fragment of a sentence, while the whole sentence is

The thing I think might potentially be scummy is the fact that you took

something I thought was obviously non-serious, that you were defending a scum partner

, as serious, when at least some other players did not.

Bold is mine -- taking the whole sentence shows that Val was not really going with pre-flip associations because it wasn't serious. Even if you're reading backwards, it's not just in the same post but the same sentence.

[alstroemerial]

Ok I see in 116 that Val made the same point but I'm still confused on how that got missed

[alstroemerial]

Man. When I left it the Luke/Val thing felt town v town to me, but the fact that it's still going strong makes me .... less convinced. But since that truck seems firmly in the ditch, and I think it's early for anybody to be at e-2, let's try to change the subject a little bit.

I'm curious about this, since e-2 isn't necessarily a quickhammer risk. If you're thinking there could be scum in {Luke, Val} which do you think is more likely? On a related note...

^^^
*puts vote away
*asks other person y no vote

There’s something about the implicit contradiction in that post that just rings town to me.

Why? Isn't it just a bit hypocritical?

Getting to Zyla's question to me next, but trying to break up my posts more in contrast to last game

[alstroemerial]

Ah here we go -- I have my eye on Zyla a bit already because [ongoing games] but it's more of a lean than a read at this point

I'm going to say that I'm a little bit confused since we aren't in any games together. Since we can talk about 2068, which we were both in, does that do anything to help or harm me in your eyes?

Yeah, it's not a game we're both in. I went back and forth on what to say but decided to really err on the side of caution with the ongoing games thing. In terms of 2068, what I'll say is that my hunch was coming also in part from comparing your town play in 2068 with your scum play in The Backrooms (2065), and at the time I thought I was seeing more in line with 2065. The most recent string of posts (starting 140ish) makes me feel better, putting you more at a null.

For now I'll shift to VOTE: Pavowski because of his relatively low content (except for Umlaut who is V/LA and Not_Mafia, of whom I have low expectations...)

PS: I checked around Marci's topics and found a newbie game where town!Marci didn't vote until after post 500...

[alstroemerial]

I've been trying to evaluate things as I see them. What would you like to see out of me?

At the time of voting, your ISO excluding RVS-y stuff had mostly question to other people (68, 70, 84, 119*), jokes (90), and then a post about the Not_Mafia cross vote, which is fair but in my opinion not the most productive area of focus.
*119 also included a justification for removing the vote on Val, this is an exception to the above.
I was looking for something along the lines of any leans, more detailed takes on the Val v Luke thing, something along those lines. I see you've since then given some more justification for a lack of confidence in your reads, which is fair at this point in the game. Still, even if they are really really rough reads, having something for us to look at helps town out, I think. In other words, more like the ones between 185 and 200. I just skimmed over and will engage with more detail when I get to that part of the read-through (especially post 200, because, you know), but the theme seemed like what I was hoping for.

I’m most interested in sorting the Lebowski person.

Who?

Umlaut has yet to contribute

Have you?

Zyla's 121 and 126 do nothing for me

Do you mean this in an "I don't get any read from this" way or a "this doesn't have sufficient content and thus is suspicious" way? I actually liked those two posts personally so I'd be curious to hear disagreement if you do. Based on your comment on 140, it seems like a scum lean, which makes me think you disagree about 121 and 126.

I like Umlaut's 199 as a way to catch up after VLA and give a lot of takes. 201 also basically answers my above question but I'd like some more clarification on why 121 and 126 are scummy. As you saw in my earlier posts I've been considering Zyla for a bit, but those posts actually made me start to change my mind.

I'm going to cut the post here so that I can respond to 200 fresh.

[alstroemerial]

I just think it's interesting I'm getting pinged for low content by these two. I don't post as much as some, but the shoe is surely on the other foot (or feet) here.

Alstro dropped their vote and dipped for almost 24 hours now. I'm curious if there's anything at all behind it or if they were just hoping to get me to post more (in which case, I think I have). I think they're asking broad questions to give an appearance of scumhunting but I have no idea where they actually stand on anybody.

(Yeah, I know, given my recent posts this is a bit of pot and kettle, but it is what it is, and Marci asked.)

Just a quick playstyle note first in terms of the 24 hours thing -- what has been working best for me is one long period of activity per day rather than in and out. Although in my last game I played a little differently over its course, I found that balancing mafia with the rest of my life is easier with the above method. I know today I was a few hours later than yesterday, but hey. Life happens, you know?

In terms of content, I put in my prior post further explanation of my vote on you, and yeah, you definitely posted more. But I'm a little confused by the charge that I haven't really said anything when comparing 73, 81, 85, etc.?

Let me summarize my stances so far and then give the updates/additions, with the caveat that I haven't gotten past 201 yet.

Zyla was at a light scumlean early on, but like I said, the recent posts had made me start to question that and put her more null.
Luke was at a slight townlean but that has been steadily going down over time and is null or maybe even a light scumread now. (But I saw Luke wall'd recently and that might change my mind, this is

just

as of 201)
Pavowski vote was more to try to squeeze content, which so far I've been a fan of enough to UNVOTE: . Will wait to revote until I finish catching up.
Marci reads town so far due to the balance of trying to pry for info while also sharing her takes.
I don't love Portia in particular because the "sidelines" (168) are not a great place to be.
I like Umlaut's perspective so far and I like Val but I want to take a closer look because I feel like because of my experience with Val in 2068 I could get pocketed really easily.

[alstroemerial]

I agree with Luke that the thread in 205 is in the "if you must know" category -- I don't really see any way the topic gives super meaningful information. If one was scum and we learned about playstyle from that, it would be more compelling to me, but since both were town -- I don't think the similarity is enough to make either look more town. Since it's all kind of NAI, my take is that while the persistence is fine, I think Portia that it is better to focus elsewhere.

It's not that the tunneling is scummy. It's that it went on too long, for my tastes, to be an information-gathering exercise and moved into "this feels motivated" territory,

I just wanted to point out that Luke in 86 linked a super interesting article about RVS. In that post, they linked to "article #1" which talks about the purpose of argument in the game and it really relates to the above post. I found it helpful as a newbie. Ironically based on that article I agree with Pavoswki that it makes Luke look worse

As I'm reading through the discussion over 120 being "a stance" from Portia, and the subsequent loss of temper in 166, I just want to reiterate that I disagree with even the premise of 120. Portia didn't respond, but it's okay because it was half a rhetorical question. Converting it into a sentence -- I disagree that 119 was townie. Even though Pavowski has since given a lot more content, back then it was a little light, even to his admission. So, it's like the one big thing Portia had given was a little flimsy to begin with, when there wasn't a huge shortage of things to comment on. tl;dr: I side with Umlaut over Val in terms of posts 211-213.

Cutting this off again as post is getting long

[alstroemerial]

He means me; my username is a mashup of my actual name and one of my favorite movies, The Big Lebowski

Thanks, my friends say I'm not the most cultured when it comes to movies. In that case, Portia, since Pav/Leb owski has posted a lot more since you did 168, did you have any progress in sorting?

I personally think that elim'ing one of me/Val is probably the play (even if that means you guys yeet me) because it would reveal the most information.

I'm inclined to agree with this and your suggesting it makes me think you're more likely to be town. However, in case anyone hasn't caught me, I'll admit I have kind of been procrastinating on my goal to read the Val/Luke in extreme, dual-ISO level detail instead of just following the thread. With the way things are going, it seems like that is an inevitable and necessary exercise, though.

[alstroemerial]

I have kind of been procrastinating on my goal to read the Val/Luke in extreme, dual-ISO level detail

Just got ready to start and combined it's almost half the thread

[alstroemerial]

Still working through the dual-ISO but I will agree with the sentiment please don't self-vote, if you are town I'd rather we get this right the first time.

I have seen multiple town players self-vote, which is unfortunate but something I know happens, including in the case of offering a "trade" if you've really scumlocked something. So, I don't know if what the article is saying about it being "unreadable and inherently unhelpful" is necessarily true in this case.

Still, I disagree with the self vote

[alstroemerial]

ebwop: never mind

[alstroemerial]

At this point having read both the ISOs, I'm reasonably confident Luke is town. He has been the main instigator for most of this, and I would really not expect scum to keep bringing this up, going so hard, and drawing so much attention. He has also basically set himself up for an elim if Val flips town, which is not something that scum would do (unless this is next-level bussing, which I think there's just no way). He has also just been doing more productive in general besides the Val interaction. Now, that does include the possibility that this is TvT, and I'm honestly not convinced that it isn't. But if I had to pick, I would pick Val. I haven't seen a confirmed scum!Val yet, but I'm getting a really different vibe than 2068. It could in part be that Val didn't get as much serious heat in 2068. To summarize where I'm at, I'm TR on Luke and a slight SL on Val. I still don't have enough from Umlaut, Not_Mafia, and Portia to really feel confident about Val, but I agree that limming in {Luke, Val} is helpful and between the two would rather do Val.

I don't want to vote because that would bring Val to E-2 aka "NM E-1" and I don't want to go there when there is so much of the day left.


Now some catch up stuff:

At the time of [my] voting, your ISO .. had mostly questions to other people (68, 70, 84, 119) ... and ... which is fair but in my opinion not the most productive area of focus.

How come? Questions seem essential in this game to me, they let you see where people are coming from, and can be helpful in both creating useful cases and discarding poor ones. Readlists and the like are useful, but IME they're most useful in something that you talk about with other people - when they ask questions about them

Yes, I agree questions are useful to keep the conversation going, clarify points, etc. This is part of why I said I liked the balance between questions and opinions from Marci. But that's the thing, if you're almost

only

asking questions but not giving any takes yourself, I see that as less helpful.

Things I want to know: why Zola and Astro haven’t made any impression on me so far.

I'm going to bed soon but AMA and I'll get back to you! Even if it's not full "pressuring", just feel free to do whatever. Voting me is pressure? Also please feel more than free to respond to 237. However, it does seem like maybe playing while in your state might not be the most optimal.

I don’t want to eliminate Val or Luke. They keep thread Alice to an e stent I think town suffers regardless of the flip. I want to see where they push off each other. Bet that might just be me.

No, not just you, I do see this. I think there is a lot of value in the interaction and I'm generally in favor of keeping talkative productive people alive if we're in doubt. But I also think the interaction is reaching the limit of its usefulness, in that I don't know how much farther they can push off each other.

[alstroemerial]

I would really not expect scum to keep bringing this up, going so hard, and drawing so much attention. He has also basically set himself up for an elim if Val flips town, which is not something that scum would do

Are you in agreement then that if something comes to light that leads you to be confident I am not scum, you are prepared to vote off Luke without hestitation?

I know I said I was going to bed soon, but just a quick no, I think you're misunderstanding. What I mean is that I think scum would never set themselves up so hard for elimination, and so even if you were town I would be hesitant to vote off Luke.

[alstroemerial]

but I agree that limming in {Luke, Val} is helpful

But if you limmed Val, and I flipped town, then you

still

wouldn't feel comfortable flipping Luke? How it is helpful in sorting the other slot, then?

A Val flip would give information for sorting Portia, Umlaut, and Marci in my opinion. Not so much info on Luke. A Luke flip, while I’m opposed to it, would admittedly give a ton of information on almost everyone. I do not need help sorting the other slot because I feel like I’ve pretty much already sorted it, but I acknowledge that a Luke flip would tell us a lot more than, say, an Umlaut flip or a Marci flip.

In other words: those two options would both give a ton of information which is why I think either could be useful, but I would prefer to lim Val because I’m pretty sure Luke is town. However, if everyone was like “nah let’s do Luke” I wouldn’t be thrilled but I would take the info.

I’ll agree to trust NM and VOTE: Val to stake my position but if it seems like we’re on track to hammer to fast this is coming off.

Sorry for any bad formatting I’m mobileposting.

[alstroemerial]

I am just curious it you are actually scumreading Val for anything in this thread or if, as you seem to say in 279, it's basically a case based on meta.

I am getting pinged, though more of a lean than as firm a read as Luke has. While lacking quite the vitriol that Portia had that one time, Val still seemed strangely prickly from the start at getting questioned. Combine that with both the weird back-and-forth of his stance on Luke, as if he's trying to toe the line between how far is a total OMGUS and 217. Also, Luke has made a notable effort to prod at other slots prior to (IRL) today/yesterday, but Val has mostly been defending except for the thing with Umlaut and Portia. To be fair, that could be because Val has RL obligations and Luke is demanding more time, but it's just another thing on the pile.

[alstroemerial]

Working on another post but coming in quick to say that I'm opposed to an NM elim at this point because it really wouldn't give us much information. My read is null because, as Umlaut says, he hasn't done much, but anyone else in Umlaut's pool would tell us more.

[alstroemerial]

I haven't seen a confirmed scum!Val yet, but I'm getting a really different vibe than 2068. It could in part be that Val didn't get as much serious heat in 2068.

is there certain posts that feel this way for you..? or just all of them?

A little across the board but a few examples would be comparing 99, 115, and 217 to things like the following post #s in 2068: 72, 92, 161, and 202. I picked highlights from earlier in the 2068 ISO because that was when the Val vs James cross-tunnel was going on (should mention that, as Val said in this game, that was TvT). There just seems to be more general responses but focus on the tunnel in this game as opposed to pinpoint responses as part of a larger scumhunting in 2068. This could be more because in 2068, Val was more the aggressor while he's more the defender in this game.

A Val flip would give information for sorting Portia, Umlaut, and Marci in my opinion. Not so much info on Luke. A Luke flip, while I’m opposed to it, would admittedly give a ton of information on almost everyone.

can u explain what sort of info u would gain?

I think Val being town makes you and Portia a little more likely to be town and Umlaut a little more likely to be scum. I agree Val being scum makes Portia worth a look. As for Luke, if I'm right then I think it makes {Val, Portia} more feasible and if I'm wrong then maybe makes Pav worth digging at, and admittedly makes me look questionable as well.

[alstroemerial]

I think Val being town makes ... Umlaut a little more likely to be scum.

This is interesting. I saw you put Umlaut in the pool of people a Val flip would give info on earlier, and I wondered if you had seen the same thing I had.

Can you explain why you think this, but beleive Lukes' alignment won't be any clearer after the flip?

Don't have time to type this now but I should be able to before the evening in US Eastern time. For now, I might be overthinking but the way this has played out today (real-life Friday, not game day) is starting to make me think this is more likely to be TvT than originally. I still think either one being confirmed town would give helpful info but not worth walking into what I'm starting to change my mind into thinking is a miselim. For now VOTE: Portia for reasons I've outlined earlier as being someone else I'd be ok with.

pedit: I see I'm about to contradict Umlaut /shrug I still don't think 120 is that towny and not enough to outweigh everything else

[alstroemerial]

I think Val being town makes ... Umlaut a little more likely to be scum.

This is interesting. I saw you put Umlaut in the pool of people a Val flip would give info on earlier, and I wondered if you had seen the same thing I had.

Can you explain why you think this, but beleive Lukes' alignment won't be any clearer after the flip?

My thoughts on Umlaut are that he hasn't been putting all of his eggs in the "I'm with Luke let's get Val" basket, including advocating that it could be TvT and not voting for either, but has basically said that if he had to pick he'd pick Val. This seems like a bit of hedging bets that makes a Val miselim feasible but won't make him look bad later on. Now, you might be thinking, wait, that exact same argument applies to Alstro as well. Yeah... I think in my original post I said a Luke scumflip would make me look bad, but this would also admittedly make me look suspicious. I'll give you that the Umlaut argument is pretty similar to the Alstro argument but that's my thought. In terms of Luke, it's that I think the odds of him being just absolutely tunneled town and scum are too close now with respect to Val, and if Luke is scum (which I don't think but could be), we would get that more from other places at this point.

Question for Val about this discussion of post 99. I think I'm getting confused by the semantics. Is what you were saying an associative sort of read, which is that you don't think NM is scum, but Luke being scum makes NM more likely to be scum because of the defense? I don't mean what you think now, but what your original intent in the post was.

[alstroemerial]

It was no sort of assocative read in any manner whatsover. You remember in 2068 when I opened by saying MiniMB must be scum because she lied to us by saying she was "first!" when the mod was; and that her using a handshake emojii and the 'y'all' instead of 'you' meant she was scum? Then MiniMB seemed to take it as an actual serious scum read and you said this:

[snip of me saying Mini was weirdly defensive]

And then remember how the MiniMB slot did actually turn out to be scum?

Remember when in 99 I suggested that Luke seemed also to be hypersensitive in the same way and

maybe

that might be AI (I had a sample of size of one, remember) and maybe we should talk about it? The only reason you are confused about how this is somehow dependant on it being an assocative read, or conditional on Not_mafia being scum is because Luke has been spamming the thread with noise to suggest such, and you've brought it.

It is not an assocative read. It doesn't depend on not_mafia, or anyone else, being of any particular alignment. To borrow your phrase, I was suggesting that Luke might be "weirdly defensive of a joke-accusation", that was all. Please, put Lukes' bullshit to the back of your head, read the last 3 paragraphs of 99 again, and tell me if you are still confused after that.

Okay, that is helpful. My confusion came from the below part about "scumreading two players with that player in the pair"

Luke is trying to sell you the story that I am scum because I didn't - for the SECOND time - spend the time and energy pointing out in detail why Not scumreading one player means I can't be scumreading two players with that player in the pair as scumpartners when I had already done so once.

Would like to hear from Portia preferably not hammered

[alstroemerial]

Val, please I agree that it would be helpful to get some other takes from you. Even if it's explicitly, "here's who I think are candidates for Luke's scumpartner"

Luke, I'd be curious to hear your opinion on Zyla also

[alstroemerial]

val seems a bit more aggressive rn imo

That's a fair assesment. We are approaching page 15, and I'm getting a little frustrated that everyone seems content to sit back and watch.

While I agree that there's been a range of activity levels, I don't think it's fair to call everyone else coasting just because they aren't on as much. People have jobs, etc.

[alstroemerial]

Alstro is generally townie, but his shift to Portia seemed odd, because from what I can see in his iso, that read was pretty dependent on Val's flip - so he is just a little lower because I am unsure why he when there.

I haven't really liked Portia as early as 231 due to just generally being vague/unhelpful.

Also, I think Umlaut made the point and Val made the counterpoint and Luke responded and it's time to move on from the PR discussion; any more will just clog the thread and make people glaze over more rather than giving something new, I think. Even worse it just gives more info to scum.

Liking Marci more and more

[alstroemerial]

Oh, I see, that's fair. Yeahhh that's true, if it is TvT then Portia's behavior makes less sense as scum. But I guess I just TR too many people and it's like, I want to put my vote somewhere and do something besides pick apart the Val v Luke stuff, and I'd like Portia to contribute more, so it seems like a fine place to put my vote for now.

[alstroemerial]

Regarding 381: This is fair, and is generally spelling out what I was trying to explain earlier:

I haven't seen a confirmed scum!Val yet, but I'm getting a really different vibe than 2068. It could in part be that Val didn't get as much serious heat in 2068.

is there certain posts that feel this way for you..? or just all of them?

A little across the board but a few examples would be comparing 99, 115, and 217 to things like the following post #s in 2068: 72, 92, 161, and 202. I picked highlights from earlier in the 2068 ISO because that was when the Val vs James cross-tunnel was going on (should mention that, as Val said in this game, that was TvT). There just seems to be more general responses but focus on the tunnel in this game as opposed to pinpoint responses as part of a larger scumhunting in 2068. This could be more because in 2068, Val was more the aggressor while he's more the defender in this game.

I think the main thing is the difference in the level of targeted focus.

I've literally no idea what Zyla has done to deserve sitting at E-2 though. Two to the votes seem to be 'Zyla's coasting', and I've already explained why I think that could be fairly applied to a lot of players in this game. Umluat justified his vote in his 199 by saying "140 -- another tell here: explicitly saying "I'm unvoting because it's not RVS" as if RVS were a formalized game phase is something that more often comes from scum"; noting first that I'm not sure why he describes it as "another tell" given I can't see anything being described as a tell; I've also no idea what the issue is - scum more often treat the Random Voting Stage as a phase of the game?? I imagine there are plenty of players who think that; me among them. Luke linked an article explaining the theory on it earlier.

Disagree -- I think it's more than just coasting and (debatably, because of RL stuff) is still suspicious. Also, part of the point of the RVS article is that it is dangerous to treat RVS as a distinct phase because it makes it easier to throw out that early stuff as "haha I was being so random xD" as opposed to a real part of the core game that we can get information from. I also think this is worth pursuing because while I'm not sold, I do think it is more likely than not that this is TvT so we might as well spend a few RL days exploring other options. Luke's snip of 99 does raise questions. While I do see his argument that the original post was dense, cutting out one sentence isn't going to change it so dramatically while also interrupting the flow. So, in short, I think it's worth noting, but I would still rather talk with/about Zyla/Portia/Not_Mafia for a bit just so this doesn't take up 95% of our day 1.

[alstroemerial]

Umlaut

, can you answer the below when you get the chance? I'm very null on Zyla right now because I've seen some things that give me pause, but I actually liked the below cited posts and those were among those that had been making me change my read. Also, if anyone who is voting Zyla (Marci, Umlaut, Pav) is at the point of "I really think Zyla is scum" as opposed to "I want to pressure Zyla" I would be curious to hear a case.

Zyla's 121 and 126 do nothing for me

Do you mean this in an "I don't get any read from this" way or a "this doesn't have sufficient content and thus is suspicious" way? I actually liked those two posts personally so I'd be curious to hear disagreement if you do. Based on your comment on 140, it seems like a scum lean, which makes me think you disagree about 121 and 126.

I like Umlaut's 199 as a way to catch up after VLA and give a lot of takes. 201 also basically answers my above question but I'd like some more clarification on why 121 and 126 are scummy. As you saw in my earlier posts I've been considering Zyla for a bit, but those posts actually made me start to change my mind.

Also,

Portia

, any update on the below?

He means me; my username is a mashup of my actual name and one of my favorite movies, The Big Lebowski

Thanks, my friends say I'm not the most cultured when it comes to movies. In that case, Portia, since Pav/Leb owski has posted a lot more since you did 168, did you have any progress in sorting?

I still don't like that Portia hasn't done much despite being around -- when Luke pointed it out, he got it wrong in saying "zero" reads instead of "one", and since then people have been like "yeah Portia did give a read and Luke was wrong so we need to chill". But since then, Portia has been around but besides 168 hasn't added a ton more. As I said earlier, I don't like the "sidelines" comment because, as Portia says in 263, keeping the thread active is good.

We're getting close to the prod point on Not_Mafia, with the only post in the last few days being 194, which is almost comical now in its irony.

[alstroemerial]

What Zyla said but I’d be lying if I said that entrance didn’t elicit a small chuckle

[alstroemerial]

@Alstro, about 73, Mini Normal 2218 has just concluded, so I'm interested in hearing what your thoughts were

This is actually not the game I was following >.< Sorry... I know it's counterintuitive -- it was actually referring to a game you aren't in, but something involving you in Newbie Backrooms came up as a topic of conversation and I was using that. But since you went to the trouble of linking this mini normal, I checked your role and did a quick read of the ISO (btw, I'm with you on the ISO-lation thing you mentioned in that game ). One thing I noticed which I haven't realized is that Backrooms was your first game (I think? Correct me if I'm wrong), which really diminishes my confidence in being able to apply any meta based on that since I know style changes faster for newer players... The hunch I was running on was pretty much purely based on style meta so that could change quickly. It's also harder just because you've been around less (which just to be clear I am NOT reading you for; I totally get real-life stuff and I do hope everything is okay), so I'm not sure how much any differences in mini normal 2218 and this game are indicative of anything other than real-life conditions.

What I will say is that I do see similarities in your post style in that mini normal and this game, in terms of tone, length, general content, which is reassuring although not enough to push you to a full TR in this game. On that note......

alstroemerial

, do you have a readslist for us?

Here is roughly where I'm sitting right now:

Marci,

Pavowski, Val, Luke,

Umlaut, Zyla,

Not_Mafia,

Portia

The above is an 'order matters' list, which is to say, I do think Val v Luke is TvT but things have shifted a bit... before Luke would have been the same color but Val would have been an orange, so I was like, it's probably TvT but if we had to I would pick Val. Now it's I'm even

more

thinking it's TvT because Val has made me think he's more likely to be town but without changing my mind on Luke -- so I really don't want to do either, but if we really had to in order to prevent a no elim, I would say let's go with Luke.

[alstroemerial]

Come again? You think its better for you (even as scum???) for people to sift though it; but you are puposefully avoiding drawing attention to us two again?

I think we can shout to people who have been inactive, "hey, make sure you read that and have an opinion" but I think we have gotten enough out of it. In other words, I think it is fine to keep talking "about" it, but it should involve more than a 1v1 of Luke and Val.

With that in mind...

I don’t want to eliminate Val or Luke. They keep thread Alice to an e stent I think town suffers regardless of the flip. I want to see where they push off each other. Bet that might just be me.

Portia:

you say you don't want to eliminate either regardless of the flip. Does this imply you think one of them could flip scum? If yes, who?

I have scared people off from trying to sort either me or Val

Sounds like a good outcome for scum-you

Not_Mafia:

Wouldn't this also be a good outcome for a scum-Val? To put what I'm trying to get at another way, could you give at least one (1) sentence about why you SR Luke?

Strong TR on Lukewarm still.
Some degree of TR on all of {marcistar, alstroemerial, Pavowski}.

Gives me an elim pool of {Val98, Not_Mafia, Zyla, Portia}.

NM has done fuck-all but I kind of expect that from him. Would not object to an elim there but in my experience we either do it or don't, trying to use votes to pressure him is useless.

Umlaut:

You mention in a later post that this "could" be TvT, but which do you think is more likely? In this post you have Val in your elim pool.

[alstroemerial]

Alstro, Is there anything in particular you can say about Marci that puts her over, say Pav? I've had a look through your ISO, but the only reference I can find is a vague note that you are "liking [her] more and more" in 373.

I also noticed while looking that you say in 293 that a "A Val flip would give information for sorting Portia, Umlaut, and Marci in my opinion.", when you were asked about it you said "I think Val being town makes you [marci] and Portia a little more likely to be town" (311) but I don't think you've ever explained why you thought that.

The reason I ask is (I'll have to go back and check) but I don't recall ever making a strong read in either direction in our previous game without giving reasons why. That's a nice bold colour you've chosen for Marci, without giving much if anything in the way of justification.

Are those two orange players (Umlaut and Zyla) null reads, or is that meant to indicate they are slight scum reads?

In terms of the general reason for Marci, I'd direct you to 231. That had increased further when I posted 373, which you referred to, and hasn't really changed since. Marci hasn't given me any reason to not TR her, unlike Pav. While Pav has improved in my eyes since I was voting for him, I see a small universe in which Luke v Val is TvT and Pav is scum using these interactions with Luke to keep distractions going. That is unlikely and I do have Pav in green, but just something poking at me.

For my second game, I'm experimenting with holding back a bit more to have three benefits: first, to make posts easier to read with fewer walls; second, to avoid the reputation of posting too extensively so I can play sustainably (lol); and third, so that when there are things that it would be beneficial to hold back on (purposefully baiting reactions, crumbs, etc) it doesn't look as glaringly conspicuous.

Marci and Portia seemed supportive of Val which is what drove 311.

Umlaut and Zyla are null for me. I wouldn't be opposed to limming in there but would at this moment would rather Portia or Not_Mafia. As for Portia though, if Portia doesn't pick up the prod that would get recalibrated with a replacement...

[alstroemerial]

I think that Val has not learned the art of scum hunting by Process of Elimination.

I got lots of town reads this game, BABEYYYYYY

This is also why Not_Mafia is in my lim pool

[alstroemerial]

Hey hey I know I was the first Portia vote on this wagon and I'm glad people are following me but can no one else vote Portia until either he picks up the prod or gets replaced? I don't want this to move too fast before he can say anything.

My reaction to page 20 is roughly, whew, if {Not_Mafia, Val} is the team then it would be so ironic and beautiful in light of Val's first post and how everything went down from that. With that said I agree with Luke's assessment in 508. Speaking of which:

~Alstro and Zyla have both already said things that would be AI on a Not Mafia flip, but would like for them to weigh in before I reveal how it would make them look

Like I've said in the past few posts, Not_Mafia is at the bottom of my pool behind only Portia, but that's mostly only via PoE. Looking at my ISO, my prediction for what Luke is thinking is that Not_Mafia town makes me +town but Not_Mafia scum makes me ++scum. The argument for a {Alstro, N_M} team in light of a N_M scum flip would be me starting from roughly "haha let's not actually do Not_Mafia this is a joke right this is a joke" and then started showing more openness to Not_Mafia once it looked like that Portia isn't going anywhere and I've basically locked myself out of Luke or Val miselims and trying to get a little bussing in instead. Whereas if Not_Mafia flips town then my hesitancy and weirdness around the slot comes across more as (accurate) newbie confusion.

Did I get it right?

[alstroemerial]

I have thoughts on Zyla implications of a N_M flip as well, but Luke, do you mean by 508 that you want to wait for Zyla to answer first, or is that fair game for me?

[alstroemerial]

It could be AI but it just feels like a jerk move to go from wagon to elim without the person in question here. I am starting to get a little nervous about the approaching deadline, though. Figure I might as well also give advance notice that I'll be

V/LA Friday through Monday (7/16-19)

-- I should be able to check in every day, just not at the same level as I have been. With the pace that this thread has been moving lately, I'm not too worried.

Hey Umlaut, since you're around, mind answering this? Also, is the below take in 309 still up to date?

Strong TR on Lukewarm still.
Some degree of TR on all of {marcistar, alstroemerial, Pavowski}.

Gives me an elim pool of {Val98, Not_Mafia, Zyla, Portia}.

NM has done fuck-all but I kind of expect that from him. Would not object to an elim there but in my experience we either do it or don't, trying to use votes to pressure him is useless.

Umlaut:

You mention in a later post that this "could" be TvT, but which do you think is more likely? In this post you have Val in your elim pool.

[alstroemerial]

Today was a travel day but I’ll be able to be on tomorrow and sleep on the Zyla thing some more. I’m pretty opposed to an Umlaut elim at this point and am feeling a little bit annoyed that my pool of Portia and NM have both gone inactive. I would rather do Zyla than Umlaut. Since I’m V/LA Friday on the deadline, even though I might be around… if Portia replacement doesn’t come and give something that gives me an opinion tomorrow, I’ll have to move with what I’ve got. Also depends if NM comes back or not.

If Luke gets killed N1 I would be shocked considering if we don’t lim in Luke/Val he would still be a potential miselim target.

[alstroemerial]

Anyways, current pool of people I think it makes sense to be the Day 1 elim, in order of priority for me ::

[Val, Not_Mafia, Portia-slot || Lukewarm]

Spoiler:

Yes, I included myself, because everything above the portia slot I think is gonna flip town, and if we are gonna be wrong anyways, I would say yeet me because it gives more information then any of the other options that would flip town

Wait, "above" the Portia slot (Shrek) as in not on the list? Just making sure cause if you mean above as to the left then I am super confused.

[alstroemerial]

Welcome Shrek! Curious for your thoughts cause your slot is in my two-person lim-pool.

Also yeah regarding the claim, E-2 is not that close to intent to hammer...?

[alstroemerial]

@Luke got it

EBWOP to 571: I don't even think you're at E-2 anymore but you get the idea

[alstroemerial]

That’s… unfortunate cause like part of the function of VT is to obscure the power roles. You just reduce the mafia’s PoE then …

[alstroemerial]

@NM, why?

Shrek, do you have any general thoughts on the Luke v Val dialogue?

[alstroemerial]

What's the likleyhood THAT vote isn't going to count, either?

I’d say 95%

[alstroemerial]

On mobile so I can’t quote, but I’m having trouble reconciling Shrek’s post about limming one of Luke or Val “for safety” with the earlier post of thinking it’s TvT. What’s up with that?

[alstroemerial]

Blurgh

Keeping my vote where it is as my V/LA starts because I haven’t seen anything in the last 24 hours that makes me think anything is better than the Portia/Shrek slot. I should be able to get online a bit tomorrow morning but from there it’ll get a little dicier in terms of being able to be sure of times.

[alstroemerial]

Vote Count 1-12

Shrek:

alstroemerial, Umlaut

Pavowski :

alstroemerial :

Zyla :

Lukewarm :

Val89,

Val89 :

,

Not_Mafia :

Lukewarm, Shrek

Umlaut :

Not_Mafia, Zyla

marcistar :

Not Voting

: marcistar, Pavowski

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: July 16, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-07-18 12:50:00)

Mod Notes:

-

Hey @Mod, just to confirm the deadline, is it the end of the 17th now with the extension?

[alstroemerial]

One more food for thought to encourage people to vote for the Shrek/Portia slot: I know it sucks to replace in and get eliminated quickly, but that shouldn't be a reason to deter town from voting if they think they've found scum. We have to play to win. Portia was prickly at suspicion, avoidant of actual questions, and flying under the radar until eventually disappearing altogether. Shrek has been a little better but I'm not satisfied with the explanation given in 603 -- this conversation seems so full of hedging without putting a solid stance down, in order to avoid getting held accountable for something later. If it's Not_Mafia or a no elim, I'll help make an elim happen, but if we have some time left I would really ask people to consider this.

[alstroemerial]

@Everyone -- if I vote for anyone other then Val before the end of Day 1, please take that as a scum claim, and hammer me with impunity

Just to make it clear to the thread, I think that at this point

I, Lukewarm,

would be a better elim then : Zyla, Pva, and Umlaut.

If you don't want to follow me onto a Not_Mafia vote, then feel free to follow Val onto a Luke Vote

VOTE: Not_Mafia

VOTE: shrek

[alstroemerial]

Have no actual interest in a Luke lim just thought it was funny

[alstroemerial]

No, I think that level of tunneling to the point of risking a no-lim if we can't figure something out is anti-town if not outright scummy. I once read someone comment, and I think it's true, that some level of inconsistency like the above is more townie actually because it shows there isn't the sort of insecurity that scum tends to have of leaving an ideal paper trail to look back on later.

[alstroemerial]

anyways my remaining reads are as follows:

alstro and pavowski: i think alstro actually has high teammate equity with pavowski. i feel like alstro is trying to go for the easy miselim by not involving himself too too much in any ongoing discussion beyond a push on a slot that was already being sussed, while pavowski has been taking the whole laid-back route which i find to be a common mafia strategy. him voting not_mafia seems like he's angling for another miselim and easy vote early on that looks kind of sus to me

I'm pushing a slot that was already being sussed because . . . . I was the first vote who actually got it started :/

right now i dont want a n_m elim because i entirely think he's scum, i just feel like it will shed a lot of light on how people have been acting around him. ex: those who have been pushing him might look a lot more suspicious in hindsight if he does flip town whereas those sticking their neck out for him will look weird if he's town. it's still best to get a controversial person out first whether that's me or n_m to begin with since anti-town people only make it more difficult for the town to vote correctly down the line.

snip other reads

scum:
alstro
n_m

Why am I above NM here when you have more of an argument on why you sus me?

@Umlaut

, why unvote and not put your vote somewhere else when we are less than 48 hours away from the deadline? Their reads post is fine I guess except for hmm it puts the safest people in null town, the leading wagons in null scum and scum, and the person at the front of their wagon in scum? Hmmmm thank you Luke for 637.

Like y'all we have 24 hours and I'm not going to be online for long enough times to really Discourse but we have to do something. Can Marci and Umlaut at least put a vote

somewhere

? With the current wagons as Shrek, Luke, and N_M, I'd really rather it not be Luke but I'll do what has to be done to prevent a no elim.

[alstroemerial]

Someone please
Pavowski we’re past the 45 min mark

[alstroemerial]

*High fives* same

[alstroemerial]

The Val kill makes sense to me but I won't harp further on it too much. :/ If Luke is scum, he has me pocketed hard because he's the only person that I feel pretty sure is town. Umlaut and Marci are okay. That leaves... Zyla, NM, and Pavowski. I want to start today with VOTE: Not_Mafia due to his just sneaking quietly into the middle of the Shrek wagon.

[alstroemerial]

I want to start today with VOTE: Not_Mafia due to his just sneaking quietly into the middle of the Shrek wagon.

Interestingly his vote on Luke didn't count and he never corrected the record, his initial vote on Shrek didn't count and he *did* make sure it counted.

Then immediately capitalizes on the Val kill to push Luke today?

I'm not gonna e-1 him before we have some time to discuss but this is not a great look

Can you elaborate? I read your first sentence as an argument for scum!NM because of making more of an effort on a Shrek miselim than Luke. But this would only really make sense for scum to do if Luke was the partner, no? But then the push today. Wouldn't that resolve the tension in the first sentence? I see it as gradually getting more serious, but the mod warning is probably the most realistic thing.

The thing that confuses me about Luke is this-- mafia killing Val would theoretically mean that anyone thinking it was SvT would be looking at Luke, so you would think that a not-Luke mafia team would be more likely to do it. Yet if it was TvT, then it makes the most sense, I think, to keep them both alive to keep the distraction going.

All in all, I personally think the mafia was probably PR hunting as I also thought that Val was a potential PR. In that sense, Val was a good VT to draw the kill...?

[alstroemerial]

Interesting thing here is they vote Val in 293 but make it clear they don't want to wagon/lim the slot. Shortly after, they plant on Portia/Shrek and stay there.

Yeah, my thinking in 293 was roughly a sort of "throw my hands up in the air cause I don't really want to vote Pav anymore but want to vote somewhere", and putting a recorded stake in the Val v Luke thing felt like it could be productive. But by 319 I was really picking up the PR softs from Val which is why I started claiming it was TvT even harder and moved to Portia/Shrek.

Also, I agree with Pav that Marci's votes could be read as "easy", though I'll let Pav answer the question Marci asked.

If NM flipped town it could be worth taking a look at Umlaut -- lots of "middle wagon votes" and fits the mold of trying to get an easy NM miselim out of the way early D1 (I think the justification was on principle). For clarification on Middle wagon votes, I have the following: vote on NM brought him to E-2, on Zyla to E-3, on Shrek to E-2, and then again to E-1.

[alstroemerial]

I will say, I forget which of Val or Luke or both said it, but it was correct that having one of them out made the game a lot quieter

[alstroemerial]

Umlaut, do you not like it because it's you, or because you disagree with my logic?

[alstroemerial]

Fair enough on the playstyle thing Umlaut -- from what I've heard, pre-flip associations can be a little wobbly but since one is the leading vote and not many have given you a super hard look I thought I might as well make the observation.

As for Not_Mafia, I'm assuming Heatstroke=Lukewarm but I'm having a hard time figuring out Doggoslope.

[alstroemerial]

The fact that it's so quiet in and of itself makes me a little uneasy. I will ask NM, did Pavowski do anything Day 1 suspicious to you, or is it a combination of the E-1 vote and relationship to Lukewarm, your other SR? Because I had Pavowski coming out pretty strong on Day One.

I started writing the below post to try to analyze the wagons and the implications of a Not_Mafia flip and down the way ran into some stuff that just contradicted and didn't make sense, so either one of my assumptions is wrong (pretty plausible as we don't have a lot of info), or Not_Mafia is town. So this makes me want to UNVOTE: Not_Mafia. See the below for how I talked myself out of it...

Looking at today, I notice that not voting NM (besides NM himself) is Luke, Umlaut, and Marci. For comparison, the final miselim wagon on Shrek/Portia was me, Lukewarm, NM, Umlaut, and Pavowski, with Val, Shrek, Zyla, and Marci skipping out. From that, we can put the remaining people into a few groups, at least of the time of me writing:

On both wagons: Alstro, Pavowski
On Shrek, not NM: Lukewarm, NM, Umlaut
On NM, not Shrek: Zyla
On neither wagon: Marci

Since Zyla and Marci were the only ones not on the miselim yesterday, it seems to me extremely likely that at least one if not both mafias were on the wagon yesterday. For me, that could point to Not_Mafia due to, as I said in my earlier post today, the sort of sneaking onto the wagon. He got away with flying relatively under the radar for most of Day One, except for a brief wagon that dissipated without much response from his part, and like Pavowski said, has been strangely more forceful today now that we're one miselim in.

If NM does flip mafia, the partner is likely not bussing right now -- there hasn't really been an air of inevitability on the wagon and as Pavowski pointed out, we're not quite short on time yet (but getting there...). That's Luke/Umlaut/Marci. But NM doesn't need to bus Luke by similar reasoning, and I TR Luke already, so it's in {Umlaut, Marci}. But Marci, who is so light on voting, didn't need to throw out a Not_Mafia vote in 656 if they were partners, so that doesn't make sense. And {Umlaut, Not_Mafia} also doesn't make sense to me because, like I said earlier, I think a Not_Mafia town would make Umlaut scum more likely, and it couldn't really be that both not_Mafia flips make an Umlaut scum flip more likely. So by contradiction, some assumption has to be wrong, leading to the unvote for now.

With that for now, I'd like to put my vote here instead. VOTE: Zyla. Can you talk a bit more about your read on Umlaut, especially your shift from a null read to a scum read in Day One? You wrote that they seem to not be trying to sort back in 547, anything else independent of other potential flips?

[alstroemerial]

Luke, what part of it doesn't make sense? Let me try writing a general outline of the post and maybe you can point to the part that needs more detail/explanation.

1) A question to NM about the read on Pavowski
2) A preview of the rest of the post -- the following thought process is meant to look at where I'd go next once Not_Mafia flips red since I was voting him, but then I hit a wall on potential partners, making me want to unvote for now.
3) Break remaining people into 4 groups based on wagons at that point
4) Assumption that at least one mafia was voting Shrek and speculation as to why it could be NM.
5) Assumption that NM's partner is not voting for him at the time of the post.
6) Luke as a partner doesn't make sense because NM doesn't need to bus. Marci and Umlaut also don't make a lot of sense. So, there's not really a great candidate for a partner, which makes me question an assumption or the fact that NM is mafia. Hence, unvoting.
7) Questions to Zyla as a new place for my suspicion

Since Zyla is on track for getting replaced, if I'm understanding the rules correctly, I might need to recalibrate a bit.

@Mod

, will the deadline be paused/extended if that happens?

[alstroemerial]

If I had to guess now I'd say that Zyla's partner was on the wagon, but I'm more at a loss as to who the partner is. Zyla has been hard to sort for a bit but -- I landed on NM likely being

town

by a sort of PoE, and so then Zyla over Marci for being the main aggressor on NM, though I could also be convinced into Marci or Umlaut.

[alstroemerial]

I can theoretically see a universe in which a Zyla-slot / Pavowski team exists, with Pavowski as the aforementioned scum member on the Shrek wagon

[alstroemerial]

I truly do not think that N_M is mafia at this point, though I am willing to be proven wrong. I'm going to be kind of in and out due to a personal family matter, but at the pace of the game, I'm not worried about keeping up. I'm looking forward to the (hopefully) injection of energy from a new player. Marci, I know you said you were going to do an updated look. How's that going? For me I have Luke, NM, Alstro (obviously) in townread, Marci and Pavowski as townlean, Umlaut as null, and Zyla-slot as scumlean. I don't have any powerful scumreads so I have to go into the lean. :/

[alstroemerial]

*turtwig noises*

[alstroemerial]

I have read several games with T3 and so am excited to see him replacing in; welcome! Take the time you need to catch up, and here are two questions that would be helpful to have your opinion on! To, like, help get started or whatever.

1. What do you think of Luke and Val's thing in light of the Val flip?
2. What do you make of the wagon yesterday and the Not_Mafia wagon today?

[alstroemerial]

It was your slot then me, then Pavowski, but I've since unvoted after thinking about it more in 760

So, three at peak now 2

[alstroemerial]

Part of the reason I ended up voting your slot is because once I convinced myself NM was town, I looked at the ISO of the person who started it and didn't love it /shrug
I don't have you as a firm scumread but just the biggest thing I have, so...

It is unfortunate that the two people I have suspected so far have both replaced

[alstroemerial]

That answers my remaining question but why???

[alstroemerial]

That answers my remaining question but why???

Because I trust the cow and know what's up.

Does that mean you also think Pavowski is the other one?

I guess if I TR the cow I could sheep the cow (lol) but I'm just having trouble seeing scum!Luke

[alstroemerial]

Wait why are we outing the PRs? Even by PoE… Not helping this slot, though Luke jumping in favor makes me wonder if I’m wrong.
Does T3’s “theoretical investigation” equal a PR claim? Cause if so that could be the only one anyway.

[alstroemerial]

So… you were trying to bait NM into confirming?

[alstroemerial]

Wait wait so you were trying to act suspicious to take pressure off NM onto you? I’m confused — to be fair I am at a low mental processing power because of personal stuff today, but am I following right? And then Luke’s good reaction made you change your mind?

[alstroemerial]

On one hand it’s absurd but maybe just trying to bait while he can? But it wasn’t/isn’t a lost cause.
I need to rest but just want to help keep multiple voices active

[alstroemerial]

On one hand it’s absurd but maybe just trying to bait while he can? But it wasn’t/isn’t a lost cause.
I need to rest but just want to help keep multiple voices active

[alstroemerial]

So I now retract my previous statement that I think Zyla slot and Pavowski could be the team in light of T3’s debut. To me, looking at deadline and all, it comes down to T3 or Pavowski. I don’t have Pavowski as a lock town or anything but I find T3 scummier. I would love to hear from Umlaut on this matter if he can be around. You said you wanted to try Pavowski because the NM read makes sense. Would you still rather do Pavowski than T3 in light of the last few pages?

[alstroemerial]

UNVOTE: T3

Marci, regarding your read on T3:

t3 -

scumread. t3 is a bit tricky to read, but i dont like how he was saying not_mafia was crumbing a pr > if maf didnt catch onto it, its just helping them. i dont think a townies would do that.
i also didn't have a good read on zyla either because of her posts, it didn't really look like she was trying to solve imo.

If Not_Mafia was crumbing a PR, then what do you think of Luke's argument for the VT/PR massclaim? In that case, even if maf didn't catch onto it, wouldn't it be a nonissue?

[alstroemerial]

We're running out of time and it's been so quiet and I would rather VOTE: Pavowski than NM. Reading through the ISO is a decent amount of i.i.o.a. and I'm profoundly confused by 609 where he says he doesn't want to lim Luke and then votes him in the same post.
That's E-1.

[alstroemerial]

I read that as a scum team accusation

Me too

In terms of Not_Mafia, then, maybe should we do the whole intent-to-hammer+claim shebang at E-2 instead of E-1 then...? More like an "intent to E-1"?

This is known as "NM-1", but I don't quickhammer in Newbies

Hopefully we can get an intent to hammer and everything…?

[alstroemerial]

Thank you, merciful cow

[alstroemerial]

Hmm it could be a lesson to V/LA or replace after a death in the family as I will admit my critical thinking skills have not been my usual since Tuesday morning. I’m willing to eat my metaphorical hat post game if it’s one/both of T3/NM and not Pav in the end.

[alstroemerial]

Fair I see that

[alstroemerial]

Oh I was confident but that’s still deeply satisfying. VOTE: Marcistar I’m pretty locked up in my conviction here if you catch my drift

[alstroemerial]

I’ll make an actual case as well this afternoon when not on phone. I was just so excited to see the start of day three that I wanted to hop on ASAP.

[alstroemerial]

I jailkeeper’d Marci and no one died which reads as a guilty to me with one mafia left. You can find some crumbs in day one and if you look at Pav and Marci’s ISOs with respect to each other— that’s how I got my suspicion overnight.

[alstroemerial]

I jailkeeper’d Marci and no one died which reads as a guilty to me with one mafia left. You can find some crumbs in day one and if you look at Pav and Marci’s ISOs with respect to each other— that’s how I got my suspicion overnight.

[alstroemerial]

Oops not again

[alstroemerial]

Pagetop lol always wanted to do that

[alstroemerial]

I'm VT

Cool me too /jk

[alstroemerial]

Alstro, care to say whom you're jailing if this flips green?

With one mafia down, I figure that the jailkeeper can block the kill from protecting the target or blocking the mafia. Last night I was trying to block the mafia-- the wagon made Umlaut and T3 look pretty solid, and I was already TR-ing NM and Luke. That left Marci, and so I looked through the ISOs and saw things like 860 in retrospect.

For tonight, I think it's more efficient to try to block the mafia than try to guess the target. Given that the wagon is more solid evidence than my reads, it would be NM or Luke. More likely Luke just because I don't see why NM would have done that sort of bus move yesterday, and the hammer could have been a resignation thing.

I'm pretty sure it's gonna flip red though.

[alstroemerial]

“meuh”?

[alstroemerial]

“meuh”?

In my first game with Marci (not_Mafia was also there ) she was scum and fake claimed tracker, and that she had targeted Meuh night 1 and was roleblocked night 2

She is scum. You did good

oh phew

[alstroemerial]

alstromerial? More like alstromiracle

On N1 I actually targeted Marci because I thought she might be the kill target, then flipped my reason N2.

GG all!!

[alstroemerial]

Zyla, were you fake crumbing masons? Part of the reason I scumread your slot was because I thought you were hinting masons when I knew there were none in the game.

Also since you're probably curious and all the relevant games are over, the mystery tell I was trying to apply to you was the "tbh" tell that I had read about in 2069 which talked about 2065. Clearly it didn't work out for me though

if illwei flips scum after Zyla was scum in 2065, I'm never doubting the TBH tell again

[alstroemerial]

Ah [facepalm]