Newbie 2089 | Endgame

[KittyTacky]

My first first post!

Hello everyone. I now realize I should have inned as a SE because I have a few games under my belt already...

[KittyTacky]

Yeah RVS usually doesn't last that long.

VOTE: MrRafexPL for being first in the votecount.

[KittyTacky]

Reaction tests are very important in general, but it depends on player meta (common behavior) in many cases. Some get flustered and super defensive when pushed, some go quiet, some start passively agreeing with stuff. Not only is it important

how

they react in the vacuum of the game but also how they react as different alignments. That is a common tell. But it is possible to fake.

[KittyTacky]

3. If someone claims a role you know they don't actually have, don't counterclaim until late the following day. This gives them time to use their power and confess their lie on their own without you having to out yourself. But as we get close to elimination the day after they fake claimed, you should then claim, because they're probably scum. Worst case scenario, you die before you get a chance to counterclaim, but your death reveals your role, and once town knows your role, they know the claim was fake.

If there are no leads and/or the person getting pushed looks to be a scum-led push I think it's better to counterclaim immediately. Better to get a confirmed scum lim instead of someone who could well be town IMO.

[KittyTacky]

UNVOTE:

[KittyTacky]

been about a solid year and a half since i last played a game here

what's going on fellas

The rare game with no RVS. TBH I agree this can be more productive than RVS.

Wow this is a really, really unfortunate slip if you're town. This looks like a consciousness of guilt slip.

Explain more?

[KittyTacky]

Pagetop!

[KittyTacky]

That doesn't feel like a slip to me.

[KittyTacky]

Being someone who messes up similar words like "pretend" and "intend" sometimes, not to mention "pretend" making no grammatical or logical sense in that context whether in mafia chat or out, leads me to believe it's just a typo. I'll hold out on voting for now but Frogsterking and ofmercia are both sus to me and ofmercia's push, in particular, seems a bit like a scum jumping onto a possible early wagon.

Read Progo's post again. How does "I pretend to respond to Daniel's strategy soon" make any sense, especially since Progo doesn't seem like a caveman? I think missing a "will" is pretty unlikely. And what would pretending to respond to someone even entail? It's clear to me that it's a typo.

[KittyTacky]

I'll hold out on voting for now but Frogsterking and ofmercia are both sus to me and ofmercia's push, in particular, seems a bit like a scum jumping onto a possible early wagon.

Read Progo's post again. How does "I pretend to respond to Daniel's strategy soon" make any sense, especially since Progo doesn't seem like a caveman? I think missing a "will" is pretty unlikely. And what would pretending to respond to someone even entail? It's clear to me that it's a typo.

Are you saying what I pointed out doesn't make sense? I don't think I can be any clearer though, even repeating it to be clearer. Did you read it what I posted?

It doesn't make sense because I really, really don't see anyone saying that, phrased

that

way, in mafia chat. Again, how do you pretend to respond to someone?

[KittyTacky]

I'll hold out on voting for now but Frogsterking and ofmercia are both sus to me and ofmercia's push, in particular, seems a bit like a scum jumping onto a possible early wagon.

Read Progo's post again. How does "I pretend to respond to Daniel's strategy soon" make any sense, especially since Progo doesn't seem like a caveman? I think missing a "will" is pretty unlikely. And what would pretending to respond to someone even entail? It's clear to me that it's a typo.

Are you saying what I pointed out doesn't make sense? I don't think I can be any clearer though, even repeating it to be clearer. Did you read it what I posted?

It doesn't make sense because I really, really don't see anyone saying that, phrased

that

way, in mafia chat. Again, how do you pretend to respond to someone?

Mafia need to use deception. Pretending is a form of deception. They can be open about that sort of thing with eachother.

Okay, that still doesn't change my question which you have been evading.

[KittyTacky]

It was clear from the start that it was a language error, at least to me.

[KittyTacky]

How can you just assume it was a language error? That seems a bit tmi.

I literally explained it. -_- While it's natural for mafia to pretend to do stuff, pretending to respond to someone's strategy is logically impossible. Do you just passively go with the flow? That's still responding in a way isn't it.

[KittyTacky]

And going ranty off-topic, I joined another community's mafia game on discord at the same time with this one, and I find it pretty weird that I'm being straight-up forced to memechat throughout the entire 48h D1 there. Someone who checked in a whole three times during that period actually got prodded for 'not talking enough', even though there was straight-up zero real conversation concerning setup/strategy going on there.

Forum Mafia, Discord Mafia, and social deduction games like Town Of Salem and Among Us have very different cultures between each. Forum mafia is super slow-paced, usually, for example. You're not in a rush here, at least early, so adapt to that.

[KittyTacky]

Both Tist and Norwe are probably town. I played with scum Norwe a while ago and he was... different. Like less talkative? Snarkier? I don't quite remember how but it was a different style.

[KittyTacky]

Both Tist and Norwe are probably town. I played with scum Norwe a while ago and he was... different. Like less talkative? Snarkier? I don't quite remember how but it was a different style.

Okay that's good to know. Do you have a read on Auto or Dunnst yet?

Auto = slight townlean on gut, I don't know how to explain it. Dunnst is very null to me, none of their posts really ping me as either alignment. I remember Dunnst being lurky as town I think.

[KittyTacky]

But I'm not sure if they lurk as scum too.

[KittyTacky]

I think Tist's word count is attributable to him simply being a newbie and trying to be helpful. It would be an HMMMMM if an experienced player did it though.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: ofmercia

I'm fairly sure this is scum. On further analysis, the Progo push really reads like scum trying to up someone early then backing down quickly once confronted about it.

[KittyTacky]

Tist

does not

ping me as scum. Most of his posts were actually helpful, and I won't vote someone for one very mildly scummy thing while everything else about them screams town to me.

[KittyTacky]

Anyone has thoughts on Fwogcarf?

Town lean but shaky.

[KittyTacky]

I think I've seen the most scummy behavior from ofmercia, but I think true scum would make more of an effort to hide scummy behavior. Not quite ready to townread them yet, but they are at least one of the more active players.

Ofmercia is new. Honestly their posts ping me more as a newbie scum than a scummy newbie, if that makes sense.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: Dunnstral activity read

also seems like volume tells will not work in this game

thank god honestly

I think he's lurking as town waiting for something.

how does that make sense?

I asked him a few things. I don't feel he's hiding anything. But also feels as if he doesn't know what to do.

He's quite experienced though.

[KittyTacky]

When I was new I accidentally scummed it up as a

townie

, I don't think newbscum slipping up is implausible.

[KittyTacky]

When I was new I accidentally scummed it up as a

townie

, I don't think newbscum slipping up is implausible.

Which was tist's original point which you opposed.

Well the thing is, you don't read like a newbie town being scummy to me.

[KittyTacky]

Oh, I haven't read any of it, because it's pretty obvious the game is mostly rng especially day 1. So there's probably no reliable guide to catching scum. Especially with all the varying behaviors each game from both alignments.

lmao. It's not quite RNG because scum tend to be scummy. Like you for example.

[KittyTacky]

Oh, I haven't read any of it, because it's pretty obvious the game is mostly rng especially day 1. So there's probably no reliable guide to catching scum. Especially with all the varying behaviors each game from both alignments.

lmao. It's not quite RNG because scum tend to be scummy. Like you for example.

Actually proving me right. So keep going.

This is still scum. Not much ofmercia said or did makes much sense as town. Jumped on someone for what is blatantly a language mistake, when people started piling up votes, attempts to deflect with "the game is RNG".

[KittyTacky]

Oh, I haven't read any of it, because it's pretty obvious the game is mostly rng especially day 1. So there's probably no reliable guide to catching scum. Especially with all the varying behaviors each game from both alignments.

lmao. It's not quite RNG because scum tend to be scummy. Like you for example.

Actually proving me right. So keep going.

This is still scum. Not much ofmercia said or did makes much sense as town. Jumped on someone for what is blatantly a language mistake, when people started piling up votes, attempts to deflect with "the game is RNG".

What? We were discussing something totally different. This is a big stretch lol. The two aren't even related at all. This has to be scum.

VOTE: kittytacky

I didn't say you directly deflected my accusation with that, but saying the game is mostly RNG when currently being pushed (not just by me in fact) read to me like trying to drop off pressure from yourself.

[KittyTacky]

Tist unvoted and progo voted AFTER. So when I made the post it was the least pressure I've been under or being pushed.

Do you know what deflecting means? My vote accusing progo and norwegian as being a scum team was way back and I already explained my thought process of that. How or why would I deflect in a completely different discussion talking about strategy and usefulness of scum guides?

Progo was scumreading you before. And you accuse me of not reading the thread...

[KittyTacky]

Ok so I have 1 vote and 1 player scum reading me. I then decide to deflect this heavy pressure - I force tist to make a discussion of strategy where I can deflect your vote on me many pages back with an rng argument lol. Nice one. Makes perfect sense.

1. 2 players, one voting you and the other likely voting soon.
2. Opportunism is a thing.

[KittyTacky]

Yes it's not heavy pressure but then again it's mid-day 1.

[KittyTacky]

ofmercia/kitty not w/w

Wolf/wolf?

[KittyTacky]

Auto: Looks like you're saying in 277 that I'm recommending seeking breadcrumbs and rationalizing gutreads, when that's the exact opposite of what I recommended in 273. Have you just given up on reading the thread?

Kitty: I agree that ofmercia seemed scummy in response to the Progo controversy. But ofmercia is right that they said the RNG stuff after I unvoted. Sure, Progo was scumreading them, but that's not a whole lot of pressure.

Let's look at Progo's activity:

Two posts at the top of page 5: 100, 102. We hear nothing at all from hum after that until 205, more than a hundred posts and four pages later. He drops his reads in 216, and then, up until ofmercia's RNG comment, never made another post. Progo had put very nearly the absolute minimum pressure on ofmercia that he absolutely could. Plus, I had just removed my vote from ofmercia, which I originally placed in 116 on page 5.

ofmercia has had a vote on them ever since Norwegian's vote in 93 on page 4. In other words, ofmercia has had at least one vote against them, sometimes two, for eight of the twelve pages of this game. They had been scumread by one of our least active players three pages earlier, and never heard from the guy since then.

I mean yeah, I guess ofmercia had a little pressure on them, but not more than they've had on them for most of this game. Actually, it feels like significantly less, because my vote which had ridden for six pages had just moved.

Are you really sure the "RNG" comment was intended to deflect pressure?

I'm not completely sure if it was. From my perspective it made sense though, I'm a bit trigger-happy with making that kind of play to save my hide if constantly hounded by someone all day (generally as scum). Even if it wasn't, ofmercia is still the scummiest player to me currently, both off "vibe" and their strange early push.

[KittyTacky]

I think I've seen the most scummy behavior from ofmercia, but I think true scum would make more of an effort to hide scummy behavior. Not quite ready to townread them yet, but they are at least one of the more active players.

Ofmercia is new. Honestly their posts ping me more as a newbie scum than a scummy newbie, if that makes sense.

Sorry can’t post as much but, can you point out what and why you think this?

As I explained before, it's the push on ProgoWoshua early on, following Frogster's original push. It just pinged me as an extremely scummy thing to do so early, with Progo's "slip" making no sense if interpreted as a slip (again, how do you pretend to respond to someone's strategy?) and a weird defense afterward that involved ignoring my questions. I'm convinced they're scum.

[KittyTacky]

Around 70% chance off a hunch.

[KittyTacky]

Regardless of if I'm right about ofmercia or not, Frogster is also rising on my scum radar, due to massive lurking and not following through on the survey. Those are my main two scumreads, and I'm 90% sure there's a scum between those two.

[KittyTacky]

I'm pretty sure he's lurking. Even at the time of his last post, the survey was long overdue.

[KittyTacky]

I apologize for my lurking. I think I've kept fairly well read on this game.

I think frognworth and KittyTacky are likely to flip scum. VOTE: frognworth I'm down to wagon either.

I think Dunnstral/StrangeMatters and AutoDefennstrel are the limbait slots who are are likely to be easy pushes who flip town.

I think Progo put enough effort into their posts that it's sort of making his life difficult as scum so I think he's town. I think Norwee's vote on me and paranoia of my slot is likely to come from town and some of his posts were too helpful I think for if he were playing scum. And I also am not paranoid of Tist who I think is town.

Then I think ofmercia's play is slightly more aggressive than the other players at this table which can sometimes lead to getting his slot scum read, and in my experience, kind of like the limbait slots, he's likely to flip town.

So then I just have frognworth and KittyTacky left and I read through their isos and I see hanging back, pushing easy slots while staying on the sidelanes, posting just enough to get slightly townread. I'm somewhat confident there's at least 1 scum between KittyTacky and frognworth.

1. Ofmercia's aggression isn't the problem by itself, aggressive towns win games. The problem is that the aggression was inane and extremely poorly explained when questioned.
2. Where's your survey my man?

[KittyTacky]

…would you please?

Yes! Do you agree/disagree with my scum reads?

I disagree with your scumreads because you scumread me and I know I am town and fwogcarf didn't say anything that pinged my scum radar. Auto pings me more as a scummy townie limbait, yeah. As for Dunnstral, they and their replacement are aggressively null to me.

[KittyTacky]

…would you please?

Yes! Do you agree/disagree with my scum reads?

I disagree with your scumreads because you scumread me and I know I am town and fwogcarf didn't say anything that pinged my scum radar. Auto pings me more as a scummy townie limbait, yeah. As for Dunnstral, they and their replacement are aggressively null to me.

You not understanding doesn't mean poorly explained. Norwegian seems to understand after 2 posts. Yet after trying to explain further for 3 or 4 posts you're still lost, or acting lost.

*keeps evading my actual question* I don't know why Norwe thinks it makes sense, again how on Earth do you

pretend to respond

?

[KittyTacky]

…would you please?

Yes! Do you agree/disagree with my scum reads?

I disagree with your scumreads because you scumread me and I know I am town and fwogcarf didn't say anything that pinged my scum radar. Auto pings me more as a scummy townie limbait, yeah. As for Dunnstral, they and their replacement are aggressively null to me.

You not understanding doesn't mean poorly explained. Norwegian seems to understand after 2 posts. Yet after trying to explain further for 3 or 4 posts you're still lost, or acting lost.

*keeps evading my actual question* I don't know why Norwe thinks it makes sense, again how on Earth do you

pretend to respond

?

I'll try to spell it out again, but I feel you will still say I'm avoiding or ignoring or not making sense or whatever because it isn't genuine.
Firstly scum have a private thread where they communicate.

Norwegian asks progo where he is, progo responds that he is busy and will pretend to answer in the thread.

This to me looked like scum talking and progo posting in the wrong thread. Scum will most surely pretend to answer posts as they need to hide scum agenda.

I know you're just going to say I'm avoiding again but this is as clear as I can get. If you still don't understand something this simple I cannot help you unfortunately.

You literally are ignoring me. You restated what happened without actually answering me.

[KittyTacky]

This is a Newbie table and I think it's also high-skilled as far as Newbie tables go. In a high skilled newbie table I think newbscum who don't replace out are going to be putting a moderate amount of effort into getting townread.
In Kitty and fwog I see the fruits of a moderate amount of effort into getting townread. I think that's more likely than Dunnstral/Strange or Auto being incompetent at getting townread. I think based on probability town is unlikely to choose correctly on the first couple of wagons so I'm very willing to look beyond common early choices that are wrong. I think there is enormous expected value in it for town because of the impact hitting correctly on D1 has for town's win rate.
I believe executing between Kitty and fwog has the highest chance of flipping scum of any pair of players at this table.

Or I am putting effort into getting townread because I am town.

[KittyTacky]

KittyTacky: His #86 post about how he don't think I sliped comes pretty late. By then, 3 other players already said they didn't think it was a slip, so this could be read as Mafia waiting to see how the town would react to the "slip" before making a move. However, KittyTacky's earlier #75 post clears him, in my opnion. There, he doubts Frogsterking reasoning to suspect me. After that, I can believe his reasons for his reads, so I think he is town.

I observed the same things and I think it makes Kitty more likely to flip scum than town.

Okay, how is agreeing with the majority specifically a mafia move? It wasn't at all far down after everyone else, am I scummy for being the last one to say so?

[KittyTacky]

KittyTacky: His #86 post about how he don't think I sliped comes pretty late. By then, 3 other players already said they didn't think it was a slip, so this could be read as Mafia waiting to see how the town would react to the "slip" before making a move. However, KittyTacky's earlier #75 post clears him, in my opnion. There, he doubts Frogsterking reasoning to suspect me. After that, I can believe his reasons for his reads, so I think he is town.

I observed the same things and I think it makes Kitty more likely to flip scum than town.

Okay, how is agreeing with the majority specifically a mafia move? It wasn't at all far down after everyone else, am I scummy for being the last one to say so?

Agreeing with the majority is a scum tell called coasting. Being the last one might be a scum tell, it depends.

I really don't think it's a scumtell by itself because otherwise holding the majority opinion is scummy. I was AFK at the time everyone else was agreeing.

Kitty can you walk me through your thought process of what's going on with you and ofmercia?

I explained this before. First, you pushed Progo. Weird due to the reason but not outrageously scummy by itself. Then ofmercia jumped on the wagon

before even page 10

on reasoning that I feel is extremely flimsy then very quickly backed down when called out on it. Something about that felt either like a scum trying to save themself or just limbait.

[KittyTacky]

Believing someone's explanation is not backing down. I feel scum would have more reasons they cannot be wrong, and thus more likely to try to force a case. This is related to that consistency point that was mentioned earlier.

No, scum pushing town

know

they are wrong (aside from multiball/SK/third party but that's not a newbie game thing). That I feel can subconsciously affect play, especially after a strange play like that.

As in what kitty is doing with my progo vote, it feels forced, he cannot change his stance because he isn't hunting for scum he's fabricating scum.

Or I am not changing my stance because I firmly scumread you.

[KittyTacky]

*pushing non-scum

[KittyTacky]

KittyTacky: His #86 post about how he don't think I sliped comes pretty late. By then, 3 other players already said they didn't think it was a slip, so this could be read as Mafia waiting to see how the town would react to the "slip" before making a move. However, KittyTacky's earlier #75 post clears him, in my opnion. There, he doubts Frogsterking reasoning to suspect me. After that, I can believe his reasons for his reads, so I think he is town.

I observed the same things and I think it makes Kitty more likely to flip scum than town.

Okay, how is agreeing with the majority specifically a mafia move? It wasn't at all far down after everyone else, am I scummy for being the last one to say so?

Agreeing with the majority is a scum tell called coasting. Being the last one might be a scum tell, it depends.

I really don't think it's a scumtell by itself because otherwise holding the majority opinion is scummy. I was AFK at the time everyone else was agreeing.

Kitty can you walk me through your thought process of what's going on with you and ofmercia?

I explained this before. First, you pushed Progo. Weird due to the reason but not outrageously scummy by itself. Then ofmercia jumped on the wagon

before even page 10

on reasoning that I feel is extremely flimsy then very quickly backed down when called out on it. Something about that felt either like a scum trying to save themself or just limbait.

Yes I think this is understandable. What is going on with you and ofmercia now though?

Right now I'm still pushing because their backing down felt forced to me.

[KittyTacky]

Speaking of, currently, what are your reads @KittyTacky?

Time for a readslist! I usually townread at least partly by gut and scumread by other methods. I don't feel comfortable pure gutscumming people unless they give off extremely bad vibes.

LOCKTOWN

• KittyTacky - I read my role PM. It was green in color.

• TistDaniel - Strong informative posts, despite some stumbles he seems like an unusually skilled newbie town.

• NorwegianboyEE - Combination of meta and gut read.

TOWN

• ProgoWoshua - Reactions to things seem to me like a townie would react, did nothing notably scummy. Also gut.

TOWNLEAN

• StrangeMatter - Replaced into a scummy slot, but recent posts show a will to solve.

• Frogsterking - Scummed it up for half the game but recent posts seem alright now. Shaky, bordering on neutral.

NEUTRAL

• fwogcarf - Was a townlean at first but then I got bad vibes from their posts.

SCUMLEAN

• AutoDefenestrator - Voted my townread, said TistDaniel shouldn't share his scum strategy despite more info helping town more often than not, lurking.

SCUM

• ofmercia - At first I lockscummed this but now I entertain the possibility of this being a limbait newbie. Still, I explained the reasons for my read several times before.

LOCKSCUM

• N/A

[KittyTacky]

Though from what I understand, odds are very heavily against us, and D1 elimination is almost always town. In that sense, avoiding the D1 elimination would give us an additional town player on D2. But the elimination also provides us with information, and information is very important to town. Even if we do eliminate town, that's one more person whose alignment is known, and one more set of vote counts that can be properly analyzed.

(I'm here, by the way, just rereading the thread. Hope to post reads soon.)

If we no-lim D1, barring an investigative result, a doctor/JK heal, roleblock/jail, or no-kill, D2 is just D1 with one townie less. Not ideal. Sitting around and waiting for a possibly nonexistent investigative to produce a result is how town loses.

[KittyTacky]

Okay so walk me through your read progression on Kitty's slot.

Part of my issue here is I look at Kitty's slot and noted that they have been pushing ofmercia for the entire day now and barring out most everything else. Part of the problem is I'm stuck on whether or not scum would end up tunneling this hard or not. I keep leaning on the latter (scum doesn't tunnel and is more likely town) right now but I see posts for the former (scum can absolutely play aggressively early, and some opportunism with how easy of a push ofmercia would be).

EBWOP.

It's getting extremely late so I'll respond later.

My other SR redeemed themself and I didn't have any more, Auto is steadily becoming scummier the more I read about him though. Tist's case on AD is also convincing. I might vote AD.

[KittyTacky]

447 I'd rather you read my iso including the push on fwog, Kitty and Strange. I think Strange is likely to be one.

How? I really don't think Strange is scummy.

[KittyTacky]

I remember Kitty as being experienced with forum mafia?

Not super experienced, I took a large break, but I regret not inning as SE. But I have 600+ hours in Town of Salem.

[KittyTacky]

Okay and if fwog and Kitty are both revealed as IC? Then what do you think is the game state?

Would look at Strange and Auto probably.

Yeah I'm looking at Strange + one of Auto/Kitty/ofmercia now.

I think Strange is thread flaking now because they walked into a scumtell and got called out.

They were gone for less than a day and you accuse them of flaking? People have real lives.

[KittyTacky]

Okay and if fwog and Kitty are both revealed as IC? Then what do you think is the game state?

Would look at Strange and Auto probably.

Yeah I'm looking at Strange + one of Auto/Kitty/ofmercia now.

I think Strange is thread flaking now because they walked into a scumtell and got called out.

They were gone for less than a day and you accuse them of flaking? People have real lives.

Yes and do you town read Strange?

Yes. In hindsight I just think Dunnstral was an unmotivated townie.

[KittyTacky]

Is there any reason you wouldn't be willing to die in Strange's place, Kitty?

Yes. Because it would be a mislim.

[KittyTacky]

Strange started talking about this other game they were town in because they're not town in this game.

That's a strange (heh) tell I have never heard of. Did site meta change and self-metaing become scummy?

[KittyTacky]

I re-read it and it wasn't even a self-meta. Since when is referring to past town games scum-indicative?

[KittyTacky]

IMO there's at least one scum between ofmercia and Auto. I don't see both being town, though I agree I might have tunneled too hard on ofmercia (a newbie who might possibly be town who made a misplay). I'm down for voting either one depending on who has more votes.

[KittyTacky]

Auto gives us nothing imo. Vote kitty.

Worth a shot, i don't really townread them.
VOTE: Kitty

Auto gives us at the very least scum equity.

[KittyTacky]

Knowing I'm town, I think it's most logical for me to vote on the other remaining wagon (especially with the apparent sudden deadline).

VOTE: ofmercia

Not my most favorite pick, although I don't really value my own 'scumreads' all too much and don't have much positive to say about ofmercia that would've made me reluctant to vote them.

Claim your role or I will hammer you within 2 hours.

[KittyTacky]

It's sus that Auto isn't defending themself harder. As newbie town I'd kick and scream if I was wagoned this hard.

[KittyTacky]

Claim your role or I will hammer you within 2 hours.

Read again.

Somehow I missed it. Sorry, and sorry if you're town, but you've been acting very scummy.

VOTE: AutoDefenestrator HAMMER!

It's sus that Auto isn't defending themself harder. As newbie town I'd kick and scream if I was wagoned this hard.

"Oh no, I'm innocent!"

?

Yeah, I'm innocent. Some people apparently 'feel' like I am playing scum-like, what do I do, argue over their feelings? If there was more substance, like in other games I've played, maybe I'd be making better cases. This is my first and last game on this site anyway.

I apologize that that you're not enjoying it; D1 is always pretty slow.

[KittyTacky]

UNVOTE:

I obviously haven't been on the same page as everyone else with claiming roles. It seems to me that the way everyone else plays, Auto's best strategy as scum in this situation would have been to claim a town power role, forcing town power to counterclaim, so his partner could nightkill the power role.

He didn't do that.

That's a pretty big sign that he's town.

WIFOM means that claiming VT at E-1

is

a valid play, to capitalize on this exact line of thought. You also can't unvote a hammer.

[KittyTacky]

UNVOTE:

I obviously haven't been on the same page as everyone else with claiming roles. It seems to me that the way everyone else plays, Auto's best strategy as scum in this situation would have been to claim a town power role, forcing town power to counterclaim, so his partner could nightkill the power role.

He didn't do that.

That's a pretty big sign that he's town.

WIFOM means that claiming VT at E-1

is

a valid play, to capitalize on this exact line of thought. You also can't unvote a hammer.

But I don't think a newbie scum on their first game would do that.

It's not a super hard conclusion to make if you read the wiki (I did before playing).

It's sus that Auto isn't defending themself harder. As newbie town I'd kick and scream if I was wagoned this hard.

I disagree. Newbie scum would be the one fighting at E-1, not newbie town.

In my first game (click on "Vasex" in my sig and go to day 1) I was a VT. Made a misplay, got wagoned. Put up more of an effort defending, as far as I remember. Auto just kinda gave up.

What happened to micc?

We are entering the Derp Phase.

[KittyTacky]

Did we get abandoned?

[KittyTacky]

I think Kitty is one of the slots i find the most sus at the moment, but i'm gonna let the day develop a bit before i go hard on anything.

Can you explain your read?

[KittyTacky]

But then of course there is factional kill. Not sure what no factional kill even means. Anyway lets wait for everyone to check in for day 2.

Factional kill = select someone of your faction to kill someone else. That's it.

[KittyTacky]

But then of course there is factional kill. Not sure what no factional kill even means. Anyway lets wait for everyone to check in for day 2.

Factional kill = select someone of your faction to kill someone else. That's it.

What is no factional kill?

Well either it means mafia chose to not kill (clearly they did since Tist died) or, outside newbie games, kills attacked to roles instead of factions. E.g vig. A vig is a no

n

-factional kill if that's what you meant?

[KittyTacky]

*attached

[KittyTacky]

It's sus that Auto isn't defending themself harder. As newbie town I'd kick and scream if I was wagoned this hard.

It was mostly this post i didn't like.
As in you justified your vote with their "lack of an reaction" to hammer, but i don't see why that would be scum indicative?

It just made sense to me that a newbie town, if pushed hard, would be more desperate instead of just kind of folding up.

[KittyTacky]

People always claim PRs are so important but never use them until it's too late.

If we out them, they will die and not be able to use their powers. Besides if there was a guilty result surely it would have been claimed, or will be claimed soon.

[KittyTacky]

Though if an inno result is getting pushed maybe cop should claim.

[KittyTacky]

Also i disagree that mafia might be hesistant to hammer there, i think Auto would have been an easy slot for Kitty to hammer as they had previously put them in their PoE so if they are scum, hammering them is easy.
I also feel their reasoning for wanting to kill Auto was a bit contrived, like saying "yeah you're being so scummy right now" but not really explaining why their reaction would be scum indicative, but hammering anyway. Read to me as possibly scum just trying to justify their hammer on a slot they knew would flip town.

To elaborate further:

It's sus that Auto isn't defending themself harder. As newbie town I'd kick and scream if I was wagoned this hard.

Why is this an scummy play? What differentiates it from an town that has given up to apathy or stopped caring? In fact we get confirmed later that this is exactly what Auto is saying, but Kitty up and hammers them anyway.

It's sus that Auto isn't defending themself harder. As newbie town I'd kick and scream if I was wagoned this hard.

"Oh no, I'm innocent!"

?

Yeah, I'm innocent. Some people apparently 'feel' like I am playing scum-like, what do I do, argue over their feelings? If there was more substance, like in other games I've played, maybe I'd be making better cases. This is my first and last game on this site anyway.

Claim your role or I will hammer you within 2 hours.

Read again.

Somehow I missed it. Sorry, and sorry if you're town, but you've been acting very scummy.

VOTE: AutoDefenestrator HAMMER!.

Town is necessarily going to vote Auto because they believe the slot flips scum for an natural reason or because they genuinely believe the elimination is good for the game.
Kitty did not do so in such an manner. They hammered them with the reasoning that they were "playing scummy" but never elaborated why their play actually made them scummy in the first place, only stating the very surface level fact of "i am voting them because they are playing like scum" but not elaborating on the manner in which they believed the slot was playing as scum. Which begs the question of the legitimacy of their read in the first place.
Their reasoning for hammering Auto inadvertedly betrayed their mindset of one that was knowing of Auto flipping town. Which makes them mafia.

Well first of all I actually stated the reason for my scumread on Auto so that part is flat out wrong, and I didn't expect a newbie town to be so apathetic.

[KittyTacky]

KittyTacky's pronoun is an she btw.

...it says "he" right there in my profile. Why do people keep making that mistake?

[KittyTacky]

Wait that part of my profile removed itself for some reason? Huh? I'll fix that.

[KittyTacky]

Who would everyone have killed N1?

I'd have killed either Tist or Strange.

[KittyTacky]

Fwog is kind of scummy to me, I might vote soon.

[KittyTacky]

I dont understand why people are scumreading Strange.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: fwogcarf

[KittyTacky]

And now i’m paranoid Kitty could be scum voting an town Fwog.
:/
That or bussing.
Kitty explain ur thoughts please?

Fwog went from being aggressively gut-null to me to being quite scummy, mostly on vibes but also pushing someone I really think is town (Strange). I'm finding it hard to find any more scumreads since I am giving ofmercia the benefit of the doubt and Auto flipped town.

[KittyTacky]

And now i’m paranoid Kitty could be scum voting an town Fwog.
:/
That or bussing.
Kitty explain ur thoughts please?

Looking at kitty and fwog interactions before my case on fwog shows they are a team imo. After seeing the way the fwog wagon played out, scum have no option but to bus here, as defending would be bad since it looks like a certain fwog hammer. The kitty vote makes sense from a kitty + fwog team.

Or I am town but agreeing with your case.

[KittyTacky]

I don't like everyone tunneling Strange on flimsy reasoning because I honestly don't feel she's scum.

[KittyTacky]

@ofmercia @kitty

If I share something to make you more confident in my gamesolve will you sheep my vote on Strange?

Been waiting since day 2 started already.

Okay: I think you and Kitty are Town Power Roles, Progo and Strange are scum.

I will not confirm or deny whether I am a PR or not.

[KittyTacky]

I'm doubtful on the Strange tunneling but the Progo push makes even less sense to me. Progo has been so transparently town to me all game.

[KittyTacky]

Just because town is overall sleepy doesn't mean all townies are.

[KittyTacky]

It's most likely fwog, but Auto flipping town threw my entire attempt at a solve for a loop.

[KittyTacky]

I know my fwog push looks like a bus but I was genuinely swayed by the case on him.

[KittyTacky]

I'm doubtful on the Strange tunneling but the Progo push makes even less sense to me. Progo has been so transparently town to me all game.

Yes I believe you are the mark for scum. And I understand why you townread Progo.

Why

do you townread Strange??

They never did anything particularly scummy and had tried to solve. It's not a super strong townread but I don't understand the case on them.

[KittyTacky]

I think this apathy in general probably points to this being an town elimination.
I suspect Kitty is scum here and on the wagon of Fwog as it was an viable elim away from them, but they haven’t really solved outside of that. Which is sus.

I just don't know who could be scum outside of fwog, fwog is my only major scumread.

[KittyTacky]

hey kitty how's it going

End of day 1 and didn't they say they were busy after?

[KittyTacky]

hey kitty how's it going

I quoted the wrong post.

[KittyTacky]

hey kitty how's it going

I'm on my phone, will respond to the ISO in a bit when I get to my computer.

[KittyTacky]

Responses in bold.

Kitty ISO

Spoiler:

It's kind of interesting to note how Kitty and Ofmercia's solving styles are. They hard-scumread each other early on for practically the same reasons (in the way that ofmercia immediately goes after Kitty after 1 post he made, along with Kitty going after ofmercia for the 1 post they made after that). Kitty did vote Ofmercia before that, which I read as a town ACTION. I don't really like their reasoning for it (I'm fine with the "Progo push seems opportunisitic reasoning, although I don't know what to make of his constant attacking afterwards when ofmercia was doing the same thing.) when he says later on that it's a "70% chance that it hits scum".

No, scum pushing town know they are wrong (aside from multiball/SK/third party but that's not a newbie game thing). That I feel can subconsciously affect play, especially after a strange play like that.

Next post

*pushing non-scum

I don't get why they needed to correct themselves here though since there's no third parties in this game, and town=non-scum regardless of how you put it.

Newbies here might move on to playing games with third parties and that's why I mentioned it.

Spoiler:

Okay so walk me through your read progression on Kitty's slot.

Part of my issue here is I look at Kitty's slot and noted that they have been pushing ofmercia for the entire day now and barring out most everything else. Part of the problem is I'm stuck on whether or not scum would end up tunneling this hard or not. I keep leaning on the latter (scum doesn't tunnel and is more likely town) right now but I see posts for the former (scum can absolutely play aggressively early, and some opportunism with how easy of a push ofmercia would be).

EBWOP.

It's getting extremely late so I'll respond later.

My other SR redeemed themself and I didn't have any more, Auto is steadily becoming scummier the more I read about him though. Tist's case on AD is also convincing. I might vote AD.

Suddenly Ofmercia's town, which is weird considering there's not really a follow-up for it. How does Auto provide "scum equity" to you (if it's based off of what I said still give your reasoning for it)?

I re-evaluated ofmercia, and Auto was just super scummy to me that I said scum equity off a hunch.

Strange is also town to him because he's simply "an unmotivated townie".

That's the vibe I got from Strange.

Kitty is their any other reasoning you have besides me pushing a townread of yours that locks me down as scum? There's no extensive reasoning for it besides "she's a townie"

You aren't really locked down as scum but you're the best read I have given the game is low-info. It's just... the vibe I got from your posts kinda seems scum-motivated.

[KittyTacky]

And I ruined the formatting. Great.

[KittyTacky]

And I ruined the formatting. Great.

EBWOP: nevermind it was there before.

I think flipping Progo wins for Town.

Can you explain your read on him? I see zero scum motivation in him whatsoever even if I can get behind the activity read on Strange. For the record I just think you are wrong town. But I literally can't see how Progo is scummy.

[KittyTacky]

GG.

I was a VT. Man I sucked this game, my townreads were scum and my scumreads were town. Sorry for being terrible. At least I correctly read fwog.

[KittyTacky]

Am I a shit player?

[KittyTacky]

You have huge potential, Tist!