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I have awakened, hi. Just started thinking that I was a few hours too late for the last queue and would have to wait for a whole new game to fill in, whew. Big thanks to MrRafexPL for their kindness.
I've played many other social deception games (a lot) in the past and lately I've been getting real nostalgic over the few mafia games I've played on discord a few years ago, so I decided to try it out here. Anyway, I'll be sure to make a few accidental newbie slip-ups which shall confirm me as townie in the next day or two, so please hold.
In post 109, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I’d like to hear more from Autodefenestrator and Dunnstral. They are the biggest black holes in my reads right now.
I've read the posts and feel like outside of total newbies the RVS is pretty pointless. My basis for this is that the type of D1 'psychoanalyzing' you encounter can only be effective on very clueless people, and for everyone even slightly aware of what's being looked out for is essentially unreadable (e.g. "Did he actually distance from X because that's what scum do, or does he know we look out for that and thus is setting someone up in a long con?"). I've kept up with the posts, and the 'slip' seems to be NAI although that topic is about done with anyway.
And going ranty off-topic, I joined another community's mafia game on discord at the same time with this one, and I find it pretty weird that I'm being straight-up forced to memechat throughout the entire 48h D1 there. Someone who checked in a whole three times during that period actually got prodded for 'not talking enough', even though there was straight-up zero real conversation concerning setup/strategy going on there.
I also don't know anybody here, so I can't say whether anyone is being more game-controlling, pushy, or eager to make attacks than usual. I can't make a real read nor will try to fish for reactions.
In post 122, AutoDefenestrator wrote:
And going ranty off-topic, I joined another community's mafia game on discord at the same time with this one, and I find it pretty weird that I'm being straight-up forced to memechat throughout the entire 48h D1 there. Someone who checked in a whole three times during that period actually got prodded for 'not talking enough', even though there was straight-up zero real conversation concerning setup/strategy going on there.
Forum Mafia, Discord Mafia, and social deduction games like Town Of Salem and Among Us have very different cultures between each. Forum mafia is super slow-paced, usually, for example. You're not in a rush here, at least early, so adapt to that.
I enjoy long games once they become complex and substantial, so dw. I was just explaining as to why I wasn't too talkative. Brings back memories of me having hour-long arguments or running homemade statistics scripts in C9++ games :p
In post 125, TistDaniel wrote:AutoDefenestrator: While I agree completely on the value of RVS analysis, town starts this game with almost no information. Discussion is the only way for the town to obtain information. When someone does not join in the discussion, that is an anti-town act.
Virtually your only contribution to discussion so far is the extremely safe "I agree with everyone else about Progo, now that the drama is over and everyone is agreed about Progo". Town at this point has no reason not to think that you're scum. And if you're town, it's bad for town to end up eliminating you just because you never gave us any information to work from.
As I've said before, I dislike RVS. But I'm still here talking to people, asking questions, throwing votes, trying to get a town-beneficial conversation started. Because information benefits town, and I want to win this.
> While I agree completely on the value of RVS analysis [as in not giving much information]
> information benefits town
> when someone does not join in the discussion, that is an anti-town act
Doesn't follow. Our point of disagreement must still be on exactly how much value this D1 information has, which imo is microscopic. But at this point you already dragged me into the conversation, so I suppose you got what you wanted.
In post 131, TistDaniel wrote:I agree, D1 information has very little value ... *on D1*. After the elimination and the nightkill, town is going to look back at this discussion knowing the alignment of two players, and being able to assign much more significance to it.
What we're saying right now is going to be the foundation of D2 cases. And if we say nothing right now, town won't be able to make cases come D2.
Yes, I had that in mind when I said:
In post 122, AutoDefenestrator wrote:e.g. "Did he actually distance from X because that's what scum do, or does he know we look out for that and thus is setting someone up in a long con?"
Vote patterns etc do become valuable when people are attacking/defending others over matters which are actually consequential and not memes. On D1 you can basically pick anyone to shade or defend, you have no actual need to side with anyone out of necessity. A bit rambly, but essentially all D1 information is very easily manipulatable and should as a consequence still be assigned very insignificant weight.
But hey, just my view. Don't mind it being challenged by some with way more experience. NorwegianBoyEE 'solving some games D1' seems quite peculiar!
I'll also add that I see no reason why TistDaniel wouldn't act this way as mafia, since the time he's investing through personal strategy-discussion might still be useful to him in future games, and the "help" these long-winded strategy discussions provide to the town probably aren't all that significant versus the town cred he openly admits he believes all this talking will give him (up to the point of counting up everyone's wordcounts). Thus I'm mostly neutral on him so far; he's enough of an overthinker to attempt something like this.
NorwegianBoy is an experienced player and probably knows how to act similarly in spite of their role, and will thus try to control the town and gain aggressive townie cred early on no matter his actual alignment that game. Although some people seem to be townreading him, I'm explicitly staying neutral. I do have a gut feeling on him as well, but that means nothing here.
About Frogster's accusation, I'm leaning town on him. If he was a mafia, he would probably be more conscious about making his accusation not too backfirable, and more conscious of the way he's being read in general. The move seemed careless & thoughtless. This game has experienced people in it who wouldn't be convinced, and I'm sure he would realize that in case it was a purposeful wagon attempt. WIFOM can go to hell.
In post 220, fwogcarf wrote:I don't fully understand why you think that would not be a good idea to share considering that dunnstral has barely even posted
shouldn't we be encouraging MORE thoughts and not LESS?
Discussions on how one personally identifies scum independent of specific reads on players is bad, as it'll help the (potentially newb) scum adjust faster. It sounded like a general strategy question from Tist similar to the previous ones. PR play tactic convos are okay, scumhunting tactics are better left on the side. In other words, yes, LESS.
And since someone really insisted, I'm switching to my best read now. Along the aforementioned look-at-me-I'm-town, my previous post concerning his level of investment not indicating alignment, and generally what seems to be too much focus on the wrong things, e.g. being active through methods which keep his reputation 'safe', such as strategy-discussion and more objective/neutral descriptions of what's been happening in the game.
To me it felt like a disproportionate amount of TistDaniel's initiative has been on the positive side: buddyhunting over scumhunting. It is potentially attributable to character, but felt a little out of place. I'll do a more proper & thorough re-reading of the walls of text once votes start becoming more settled, I'm going off formed impressions over exact memory right now. Oh yeah, and I don't find the wordcounts to be a suspicious thing
Checking in. I personally don't have anyone read as scum as TistDaniel, in spite of the "I'm the only one talking so I'm the only one giving out reads in the first place" point. I may switch later onto someone like fwog or Dunnstral though.
I'd also like to hear about the survey thing and get done with D1 sooner than later.
I think it's going to be my first and last game of this type, might do some blitz role-madness if anythin'. I won't sheep nor die midgame here though.
In post 269, fwogcarf wrote:i do not like a majority of autodefenestrator's posts, his first ones to me explain how he's going to play the game, which i find scum indicative in most cases. i feel like he hasn't done anything this game
[...]
Why Dunnstral and I specifically? Did you just pick two random players off the top of your head?
I'll be sure to artificially boost my visual contribution to town by hunting breadcrumbs and making up vacuous rationalizations for gutreads from now on (Daniel, 2022), sir. Scum are only more likely to influence my vote towards town, so I'm going off my personal thoughts as should you.
In post 299, TistDaniel wrote:Auto: Looks like you're saying in 277 that I'm recommending seeking breadcrumbs and rationalizing gutreads, when that's the exact opposite of what I recommended in 273. Have you just given up on reading the thread?
I wasn't talking to you, but was making a reference to what you said. Have you just given up on reading the thread?
Dunnstral/StrangeMatter is definitely off the radar for now, seems as if everyone agrees with that
so far
. Still neutral on Norwegian (a 'town-controlling and analyzing' attitude is easy to pull off as a SE town and might work on newer players). Frogster remains a townlean in spite of the recent inactivity.
Hence I'd still like to vote off Daniel or Fwog, preference on former.
Knowing I'm town, I think it's most logical for me to vote on the other remaining wagon (especially with the apparent sudden deadline).
VOTE: ofmercia
Not my most favorite pick, although I don't really value my own 'scumreads' all too much and don't have much positive to say about ofmercia that would've made me reluctant to vote them.
In post 569, KittyTacky wrote:It's sus that Auto isn't defending themself harder. As newbie town I'd kick and scream if I was wagoned this hard.
"Oh no, I'm innocent!"
?
Yeah, I'm innocent. Some people apparently 'feel' like I am playing scum-like, what do I do, argue over their feelings? If there was more substance, like in other games I've played, maybe I'd be making better cases. This is my first and last game on this site anyway.
