Newbie 2089 | Endgame

[fwogcarf]

been about a solid year and a half since i last played a game here

what's going on fellas

[fwogcarf]

My first first post!

Hello everyone. I now realize I should have inned as a SE because I have a few games under my belt already...

Cool we have an armada of SEs this game.

VOTE: yolohammer doesnt sound like a newbie name.

I have a supplemental D1 start method called the SSS (standard survey start). I think it might be better after the RVS is over rather than right at the start of the game. I'll probably post it around 10-12 pages in.

fake frog never rescinding

VOTE: Frogsterking

[fwogcarf]

Welcome to the game, fwogcarf. Any thoughts on the discussion so far?

i find setup discussion nai

[fwogcarf]

But this is a newbie game, and it would benefit new town to know how to play.

Is it alignment indicative to not want to benefit new town?

I get that but that's not how I'm going to go about my reads

[fwogcarf]

I don't want to engage in any discussion about PRs when we don't know which combination is in the game, and I feel like it would benefit mafia more because they know more about what PRs could be in the game than we do.

[fwogcarf]

If you wanna continue strategizing than feel free to, I'm not stopping you.

[fwogcarf]

VOTE: fwogcarf

Of course you're welcome not to join in on this particular discussion, but that reasoning for *why* not to join in doesn't sit well with me. On average, town power knows *more* about our setup than scum does. The only way I see this conversation possibly benefiting scum is if someone claims a role or is exclusively interested in discussing a single role, which we haven't seen.

This looks to me like a player (who hasn't contributed anything to discussion so far) activity discouraging other people from learning how to play town roles better. This does not sit well with me.

That was absolutely not my intention. I was stating my views on the discussion about it but I specifically stated that you could go on talking about it, and that I specifically wasn't going to delve on it any further.

However I did forget that people who rolled Town Power would know that kind of information as well so that blunder is on me.

[fwogcarf]

dwayne the rock johnson when he sees a suspicious person (they may or may not be an impersonator)

[fwogcarf]

Ah Fwogcarf you were in Large Normal 228. I could swear i remembered you.

yeah it's been a while LOL

[fwogcarf]

I'm still procrastinating on posting the SSS.

ProgoWoshua you gonna come in?
Don’t be shy! Come and say hi!
I’ve got tea and crackers setting up on the fly.

I'm a little busy right now. But I pretend to respond to Daniel's strategy soon.

You mean this? I'm not sure why they said pretend, I assume they are joking.

I meant "intend". Sorry.

Nah

Wow this is a really, really unfortunate slip if you're town. This looks like a consciousness of guilt slip.

VOTE: ProgoWoshua

TistDaniel seems obvtown and I'm just going to leave it at that.

[fwogcarf]

wait why did my response not post

oh no it did it just put it IN the quote instead of OUT of it

"Nah"

[fwogcarf]

Nah to what.
Daniel seeming obvtown or the "slip"?

the "slip"

[fwogcarf]

How can you just assume it was a language error? That seems a bit tmi.

not everything is a scumslip lol

[fwogcarf]

really recommend that you dont talk about ongoing games even if its off this forum

from the fm sites i play on its either frowned heavily upon or just straight up banned

[fwogcarf]

I have solved some games on day 1. Sometimes it’s not that easy, but to say: "Meh day 1 pointless so nobody should care what we say" is blatantly anti-town.

preach

[fwogcarf]

How can you just assume it was a language error? That seems a bit tmi.

not everything is a scumslip lol

Lol still, there's a difference in making assumptions and guesses to flat out knowing not only it was an error but the exact nature and cause of the error.

Yeah I can agree with that

[fwogcarf]

fun fact if you click "activity overview" below the page numbers on the bottom right side you can see how many posts people have made along with how long ago it was

[fwogcarf]

Who?

If you mean NorwegianboyEE's 135, I'm fairly certain that the game is completed. We can't talk about ongoing games on this site either.

who are you talking to?

[fwogcarf]

I think cops and mason are equally damaging threats to mafia. Masons claiming together would mean two confirmed town, and I highly doubt scum would pull a move like that.

Cop can't confirm themself as easily, but they can nail a scum. I would not expect Cop to live to the next day if that ended up happening unless it's exactly Town Cop and Town Doctor.

Masons are harder to kill than Cops because there's more of them.

[fwogcarf]

fake claiming a PR as a different PR is antitown

[fwogcarf]

Tist I get that fakeclaiming a PR (whether you're a VT/different PR) might be beneficial somehow to confusing scum but when you look at it from a townie mindset I really don't think it's a good idea to do so.

[fwogcarf]

I'll admit, I could be wrong. Part of where I was coming from originally was that I assumed that mafia would have more reasons behind the nightkill than just the power role. Let's say AutoDefenestrator claimed mason right now. He's saying he has no power to scan or block the nightkill. But we also know that it's his first game on the site, and several players are leaning on him for lurking too much. It seemed to me that mafia would be more likely to kill me, because I'm the most town-read player, I'm talking a lot, and maybe I got lucky with some of my reads. Meanwhile, a wagon might still form on AutoDefenestrator even if they do absolutely nothing about it.

Like I've said, I haven't played any games here before. Maybe mafia always kills power over someone troublesome in other ways. I've been assuming I'm probably going to be tonight's nightkill though.

Who said you were the most townread player?

I honestly don't like how you're already saying that you'll be the kill.

[fwogcarf]

I'm just going by what reads I've seen so far. I don't think I've seen your reads. Feel like posting them?

Norweigan town

And before you ask why there's only one read, it's because I don't have much to go off of. I know you have a lot of posts and you put effort and words into them, but that doesn't make me entirely convinced that you're town quite yet. I'm feeling you're trying to put more words in so that you can get volume cleared.

However I don't think I have enough evidence to go on a full blown case because I do agree with your points at the beginning of the game about strategizing. I don't necessarily agree with what you're presenting now. No sensible PR would claim D1 (unless I'm misunderstanding) under most situations unless they were about to get chopped. That's when I would picture a PR claim by either the PR or scum wanting to stay alive. I don't see vanilla townies sensibly claiming PR.

[fwogcarf]

If you don't have enough to go on for reads at the moment, have you considered questioning people? Maybe you can catch someone in a contradiction.

What would I question them with? About people's reads? Most of the players don't have over 15 posts yet in this game.

I really doubt that we could catch someone THIS early in the game. We're not supposed to be able to solve the game instantly.

[fwogcarf]

Yes we can do it.

What did you like about Norwee?

I like their reactions to the "slip" along with their engagement with ofmercia. I think their solving style is townie and I really like how they went through with their ofmercia vote. I also think that their prodding of frogo is townie because it's someone trying to get discussion started up.

[fwogcarf]

Yes we can do it.

What did you like about Norwee?

I like their reactions to the "slip" along with their engagement with ofmercia. I think their solving style is townie and I really like how they went through with their ofmercia vote. I also think that their prodding of frogo is townie because it's someone trying to get discussion started up.

Okay, do you remember how to read a players iso?

Can you find a player's iso in this game who seems to have the most consistent train of thought from post to post, and player who seems to have the least consistent train of thought from post to post?

probably tist for most consistent

not enough info for me for the latter

[fwogcarf]

Dunnstral: what's your strategy for finding scum?

Sounds like something unwise to share.

what

[fwogcarf]

I don't fully understand why you think that would not be a good idea to share considering that dunnstral has barely even posted

shouldn't we be encouraging MORE thoughts and not LESS?

[fwogcarf]

VOTE: Dunnstral activity read

also seems like volume tells will not work in this game

thank god honestly

[fwogcarf]

VOTE: Dunnstral activity read

also seems like volume tells will not work in this game

thank god honestly

I think he's lurking as town waiting for something.

how does that make sense?

[fwogcarf]

I don't like your logic on that.

But this is a newbie game so I GUESS I can respect that. It doesn't make me comfortable though

[fwogcarf]

Checking in. I personally don't have anyone read as scum as TistDaniel, in spite of the "I'm the only one talking so I'm the only one giving out reads in the first place" point. I may switch later onto someone like fwog or Dunnstral though.

I'd also like to hear about the survey thing and get done with D1 sooner than later.

Why Dunnstral and I specifically? Did you just pick two random players off the top of your head?

I'll post some reads in a moment I need to reread some of the game

[fwogcarf]

i dont have an alignment read on tistdaniel but he doesnt feel partnered to anyone at the moment.

norwegian is still town

dunnstral and frogsterking are both inactive. i would scumread them for it but activity reads arent too reliable. frogsterking's vote and unvote on progo probably means that they arent mafia together (not too sure)

i think progo and ofmercia arent mafia together. ofmercia is probably not partnered with norwegian either

i don't have a read on kitty

i do not like a majority of autodefenestrator's posts, his first ones to me explain how he's going to play the game, which i find scum indicative in most cases. i feel like he hasn't done anything this game

[fwogcarf]

im more confident on this read

VOTE: AutoDefenestrator

[fwogcarf]

yeah that's why I don't rely on meta too much

it doesn't have a ton of basis in the CURRENT game

[fwogcarf]

Oh, I haven't read any of it, because it's pretty obvious the game is mostly rng especially day 1. So there's probably no reliable guide to catching scum. Especially with all the varying behaviors each game from both alignments.

not necessarily

you can definitely find someone to have been indicating your interpretation of scummy behavior and calling them out for it. If you think that they're scum, then go for it.

[fwogcarf]

I think it's going to be my first and last game of this type, might do some blitz role-madness if anythin'. I won't sheep nor die midgame here though.

i do not like a majority of autodefenestrator's posts, his first ones to me explain how he's going to play the game, which i find scum indicative in most cases. i feel like he hasn't done anything this game
[...]
Why Dunnstral and I specifically? Did you just pick two random players off the top of your head?

I'll be sure to artificially boost my visual contribution to town by hunting breadcrumbs and making up vacuous rationalizations for gutreads from now on (Daniel, 2022), sir. Scum are only more likely to influence my vote towards town, so I'm going off my personal thoughts as should you.

Okay....

You have any more reads up to this point?

[fwogcarf]

and i don't mean gutreads because i don't think making gutreads the whole game is a viable strategy

[fwogcarf]

ofmercia/kitty not w/w

[fwogcarf]

ofmercia/kitty not w/w

Based on what?

their recent interactions

i dont think a wolf votes their partner based on the conversation that took place afterwards

[fwogcarf]

i do not like a majority of autodefenestrator's posts, his first ones to me explain how he's going to play the game, which i find scum indicative in most cases.

i feel like he hasn't done anything this game

I'm not sure I'm following this bolded part here. Exactly what about that is scum indicative that translates over multiple games?

This is a read that's supported from other games that are not on this site, and I tried to make this play when I rolled scum in one game, didn't work out.

[fwogcarf]

Oh, I haven't read any of it, because it's pretty obvious the game is mostly rng especially day 1. So there's probably no reliable guide to catching scum. Especially with all the varying behaviors each game from both alignments.

lmao. It's not quite RNG because scum tend to be scummy. Like you for example.

Actually proving me right. So keep going.

This is still scum. Not much ofmercia said or did makes much sense as town. Jumped on someone for what is blatantly a language mistake, when people started piling up votes, attempts to deflect with "the game is RNG".

What? We were discussing something totally different. This is a big stretch lol. The two aren't even related at all. This has to be scum.

VOTE: kittytacky

This post is what solidified that read for me

[fwogcarf]

I highly doubt scum busses D1

Even if it was some big brained play, this is a newbie game, and I would expect both scum to want to remain alive

[fwogcarf]

I apologize for my lurking. I think I've kept fairly well read on this game.

I think frognworth and KittyTacky are likely to flip scum. VOTE: frognworth I'm down to wagon either.

I think Dunnstral/StrangeMatters and AutoDefennstrel are the limbait slots who are are likely to be easy pushes who flip town.

I think Progo put enough effort into their posts that it's sort of making his life difficult as scum so I think he's town. I think Norwee's vote on me and paranoia of my slot is likely to come from town and some of his posts were too helpful I think for if he were playing scum. And I also am not paranoid of Tist who I think is town.

Then I think ofmercia's play is slightly more aggressive than the other players at this table which can sometimes lead to getting his slot scum read, and in my experience, kind of like the limbait slots, he's likely to flip town.

So then I just have frognworth and KittyTacky left and I read through their isos and I see hanging back, pushing easy slots while staying on the sidelanes, posting just enough to get slightly townread. I'm somewhat confident there's at least 1 scum between KittyTacky and frognworth.

Just because they're "easy slots to push" doesn't make them town.

How am I scummier than Kitty if you're using the same reasoning for both of us?

[fwogcarf]

also using a defense like "I am town" is not a read i believe in

[fwogcarf]

I think my not wolf/wolf association reads are not going to be as reliable as I think they are

Very confident on the Ofmercia/Kitty one though

[fwogcarf]

I really dislike how fwog and Kitty feel like they put just enough effort in to get slightly town read, and how they're both presently posed with their outted scum reads to sheep whichever limbait town goes for EoD.

what does this even mean

[fwogcarf]

I want to understand why you have these scumreads but all I'm seeing is "Oh they're not putting in enough effort, their scumreads are obvious limbait town, so they must be scum"

[fwogcarf]

Yes what you've said is true fwog and I actually scum read enough of your reactions to be willing to double down on you now fwog. I think you have a like 50% chance to flip scum which is great expected value for town on D1.

Hm, no.

Here is the problem I have with some of your reads. First off you never answered my question when I asked how I, specifically, was scummier than Kitty. Along the way you continue to talk about the two of us in a couple of short posts that don't say anything. You've linked a couple posts describing that they had more content than the "positions" we've taken. Why is this? And then right after that you say "I don't like how Fwog/Kitty put just enough effort to get townread and are posed with their outted scumreads on town limbait". There is so much wrong with this statement. Number one, of course you put in effort, that's usually how a lot of people get townread day 1. Look at Tist with his wordy posts, look at Norwegian with the amount of posts they've made. Then you look at someone like yourself/Auto/StrangeMatter who haven't made a whole lot of posts/put a whole lot of words in them. The top posters managed to get themselves out of mostly consensus PoE for today (because I know some people don't like Tist, which is fine). Specifically the "outted scumread" part is pinging me because you're discouraging me from making a scumread on someone who you think is town. I'm allowed to have my own opinions about people in the game, and in this case, I think Auto is scum. I'll get to that in a minute

Second off, your limbait reads aren't good reads. Your explanation for Auto being town is because he "doesn't post much" and is "paranoid of a popular town read". The second reason for that is fine, but the first one isn't. How does it make sense for someone like Auto to be town in your eyes because he doesn't post much, while someone like me is, in your words "50% to flip scum", with a decent amount of posts? I get that I don't put words in my posts but that's just how I play. I'm not a wordy type of guy unless I absolutely need to be.

Third off is the post where you say "You have a 50% chance to flip scum, which is great expected value for town" itself. If you're really relying on self calculated RNG more than your own intuition and logic thinking then you need to change your game up a bit because that's not how mafia works. You and Tist can calculate all the probabilities you want but at the end of the day, the game is about deception, not probability. In that same post you say "I scumread a lot of your reactions to be willing to double down on you" Ok, what reactions pinged you? Which ones were scummier than others?

[fwogcarf]

I may switch later onto someone like fwog or Dunnstral though.

Dunnstral/StrangeMatter is definitely off the radar for now, seems as if everyone agrees with that

so far

. Still neutral on Norwegian (a 'town-controlling and analyzing' attitude is easy to pull off as a SE town and might work on newer players). Frogster remains a townlean in spite of the recent inactivity.

Hence I'd still like to vote off Daniel or Fwog, preference on former.

Would also like to know why I'm suddenly a scumread for you when there's no other mention of it in your ISO

[fwogcarf]

@fwog 379

I scum read pretty much every part of your reaction. I believe you're more likely to flip scum than random chance would indicate.

Why so?

I'm asking for you reasoning WHY you see it that way. You just saying "I'm scumreading it" without any reasoning is not going to fly with me

[fwogcarf]

I still think Auto's 123 is scummy. While I do see some truth in the first part of the post I don't think it's a definitive reason to not be able to make reads. Sure you can't make them immediately and that's fine but he outright states that he can't make "a real read" or fish for reactions. I don't get why he needed to say this last part.

He's consistently gone after Tist today, which starts in 195. Normally this wouldn't be a problem but it's HOW he's going about this is the problem I have with him.
Most of if not all of his recent posts are about Tist, whether it's responding to Tist's posts or talking about how scummy he is. He did call Norwegian and Frogster town in an earlier post and then only has reads on those two players in a later post along with Tist and I, which is weird in itself. His next post after that vote is 267 where again he calls Tist scum and doesn't form a read on anybody else. "I might switch to someone like fwog or Dunnstral though" is said without further explanation, and suddenly takes the Dunnstral/StrangeMatter slot off the list because "everyone agrees with that so far" (354). This post introduces him throwing me into the PoE for some reason, which I find strange because he's never explained why he scumread my slot. (And somehow Frogster is now his only townread)

His 209 looks really bad for StrangeMatter if Auto flips scum. Auto seems to not want to have them respond to Tist about a scumhunting strategy, which I find more suspicious than if that slot had discussed their strategy at all.

[fwogcarf]

My townreads are Daniel, Mercia and tbh i think Strangematter has been pretty townie as well.

any reasoning for them?

[fwogcarf]

@fwog 379

I scum read pretty much every part of your reaction. I believe you're more likely to flip scum than random chance would indicate.

Why so?

I'm asking for you reasoning WHY you see it that way. You just saying "I'm scumreading it" without any reasoning is not going to fly with me

I think asking why over and over again is one kind of scummy reaction to being voted.

Because you're not providing any reasoning for it.

[fwogcarf]

Your reasoning now for me continously asking why over and over doesn't count because that's not your original reason for scumreading me

[fwogcarf]

Fair enough: @379

I think scum are in some kind of mix of the KittyTacky /fwog slots and the two slots that replaced out. I think the towniness of the players at this table might cause the scum team to self-select for moderate skill or replace out.

Your slot is consistent with a moderately skilled scum and Auto's isn't, so I'm thinking Auto is more likely to be a townie who just happens to be getting pushed for their play.

You can always argue that the replacement slots are more likely to flip scum because the scum got intimidated by the town core and left and that could be correct. I'm assuming some competency on the part of both scum team and town when suspecting you and Tacky.

You're still not pointing out what reactions I had that you thought were scummy

[fwogcarf]

Ofmercia do you still scumread Progo?

[fwogcarf]

throwback to the time someone told me progression reads are bad

[fwogcarf]

I forgot we could vote sleep

Honestly if we don't have like a consensus scum that might be the play to make

[fwogcarf]

I apologize for my lack of activity, things have been busy

[fwogcarf]

Damn, it probably should be. These are some good questions for it.

if those are gonna be the type of questions in the supposed survey than i'm not participating

[fwogcarf]

The other game in which you were town?

I meant my last newbie game.

I'm about to deathtunnel you so if you've had any strong scumreads you've been holding back I suggest you case them now.

literally the most antitown thing you could do

[fwogcarf]

Is there something about your background you don't want us to know?

i don't feel like they relate to the game at all

i'm not going around sharing what i do for a living on a mafia game just for townie points, that's ridiculous

[fwogcarf]

Is there something about your background you don't want us to know?

i don't feel like they relate to the game at all

i'm not going around sharing what i do for a living on a mafia game just for townie points, that's ridiculous

I used to work as an undercover spy with extensive knowledge of human psychology, lying, manipulation, bending people's will to suit my own purposes etc.
How about y?

lmao

[fwogcarf]

Frogster's likely town even though i don't like how he's trying to solve

at least he's trying

[fwogcarf]

I am honestly waiting for a flip at this point since I feel like I have nowhere else to go.

I'm not used to these incredibly long days

[fwogcarf]

Vote kitty or me.

why would i vote my townreads

[fwogcarf]

you're not even a top wagon so I don't get why you'd want people to vote for you

[fwogcarf]

Tisd and fwog any player you think is scum and gives info on elimimation? I could be wrong but I feel auto gives no leads if he flips green.

Norway do you think auto is a good elimination?

I still think Auto is scum here but you are right in terms of info. All he does if he flips red is spew Tist town imo.

You flipping red would spew Kitty town and vice versa, but I feel like scum would want to get rid of the more talkative players first instead of the lowposting ones.

[fwogcarf]

I'll count that as a spiritual vote

[fwogcarf]

cloudy

[fwogcarf]

Personally thought Norwegian was going to die there, but I guess scum thought Tist was a bigger threat.

I'm gonna look into his reads

[fwogcarf]

Has Ofmercia scum, Fwog weaker scum, Norweigan Town (Places votes on the first two)

Townleaned Kitty, made an association with Progo/StrangeMatter being t/w (No read on StrangeMatter)

Voted FrogsterKing on inactivity

StrangeMatter felt more town

Scumreads Auto, townleans fwog

puts together some worlds

I can see ofmercia making a fearkill here although i'm pretty sure it would not be that obvious

[fwogcarf]

Tist did keep asking what the best play of a town PR in each setup is, so scum could have assumed he was a town PR too.

or PR hunting yeah

[fwogcarf]

Do scum have factional kills on this site or can only one person perform the kill?

[fwogcarf]

Do scum have factional kills on this site or can only one person perform the kill?

wait nvm if there can be two mafia goons in the setup then there's gotta be a factional kill option

[fwogcarf]

Do scum have factional kills on this site or can only one person perform the kill?

wait nvm if there can be two mafia goons in the setup then there's gotta be a factional kill option

Pretty sure there isn't a factional kill option.

in my experience playing on other sites people talk about factional kills and I don't believe I saw anyone talking about them here, it wasn't in the OP from what I read.

I get that it was a dumb question.

[fwogcarf]

That would make town power roles pointless since they won't be able to detect anything or very overpowered if a town power role gets a guilty on a player if they used this faction kill option. Weird to even bring up faction kill. You're trying to look town by feigning ignorance on scum mechanics?

I don't think you understand how the term "factional kill" works.

There's more than one mafia, and usually they decide with one another who the kill TARGET is going to be and who is going to CARRY out the kill. The Town Power roles in this setup should not be affected by it, Cop especially.

Factional kills are not roleblocks, that's what mafia roleblocker is for. Cops can still get red checks, Trackers can still track them (although now that i think about it if they track a goon for example who doesn't go anywhere that's unfortunate but highly unlikely to happen.), and Jailkeepers are still able to Jailkeep.

[fwogcarf]

Are ya dumbtelling son.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ0mO8P ... yq&index=1[/youtube]

[fwogcarf]

We should. We have nothing to work with and PRs will give us something. With a miselim today PRs will almost always be useless tomorrow, and can even be faked by mafia and counter claimed without room for error. Today mafia cannot fake claim or counter claim without sacrificing one of themselves.

I would only consider outing PRs if it were exactly two masons

Otherwise absolutely not

[fwogcarf]

I apologize for being super inactive and probably will continue to do so over the next couple days

[fwogcarf]

Ok, I just started a full game analysis that will most certainly NOT be finished today. So for now I'll just spew out what I think. Note that these reads are based of my memory, so take them with a grain of salt:

Town Reads

• NorwegianboyEE: I was worried about him when he wasn't killed in Night 1, but Daniel's death makes sense in hindsight. Other than that, he's been helping town since the beginning, so I can't imagine him as Mafia.
  
  KittyTacky: It makes sense he would hammer Auto as Mafia, but it makes just as much sense he would hammer Auto as Town. He was tunneling Auto for a while, and probably suffered from confirmation bias. I still townread him from earlier in Day 1.
  
  ofmercia: Started of scummy, but got townier later. I completely get their reasoning for outing the PRs Today. In fact, I would probably came up with these sort of strategies myself (tho I would probably listen to the voice of experience).

Null Reads

• StrangeMatter: I don't remember her.

Scum Reads

• fwogcarf: I agree with ofmercia, Auto's wagon had at least one Mafia. Fwog is the only one left.
  
  Frogsterking: In the middle of Day 1, the only thing stopping me from SRing him was my SR on ofmercia. That isn't a problem now.

Mmk

[fwogcarf]

I do not townread Fwogcarf for "dumbtelling".

understandable

[fwogcarf]

You guys think the Tist kill was made to provide us with little info?

Or something along those lines.

Seeing a lot of "we don't have a lot to work with" (throwing myself into this as well because I am genuinely lost on who the team could be.)

[fwogcarf]

if it referred to me though why as mafia would i have presented it when no one else did

[fwogcarf]

StrangeMatter

seems like i can't dig myself out of this one

good luck everyone

[fwogcarf]

StrangeMatter

seems like i can't dig myself out of this one

good luck everyone

cant even do the fuckin vote right lmfao

this is the most lost i've been playing a game in a long time because i was so confident on an Auto/??? world and seeing Auto flip town literally made my worldviewing crash down

Strange would be the person i would go for but it's a weak read and it's a gutread

so do with that what you will

[fwogcarf]

And now i’m paranoid Kitty could be scum voting an town Fwog.
:/
That or bussing.
Kitty explain ur thoughts please?

paranoia's a bitch sometimes

[fwogcarf]

claiming Vanilla Town

[fwogcarf]

I want to say before i get limmed

I'm so sorry for my god awful play, i'm usually better than this.

[fwogcarf]

I want to say before i get limmed

I'm so sorry for my god awful play, i'm usually better than this.

Do you think scum are pushing you now? I'd like for more than this as an reaction to E-1 tbh.

Both of em are probably on my wagon

It'd be a bad play if one/none weren't

[fwogcarf]

I want to say before i get limmed

I'm so sorry for my god awful play, i'm usually better than this.

I don't see the awful part. If you're scum I can see the reasoning why you think that. But it's not awful play from your side, it's just that I fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your alignment) caught your exact play in action and exposed it. It happens.

You obv wouldnt know my meta but i havent collapsed like this in a good long while. Usually my play is just straightforward lurking/half solving d1 because theres not a whole lot going on. But i do start doing things d2. I think the day length contributed to that because I'm more used to playing 48/24 style games

Funnily enough I've collapsed as town and mafia so that's not even alignment indicative for me

[fwogcarf]

If im still not dead when i get back from not being busy and theres no votecount ill scrounge one up to base some vote reads on

[fwogcarf]

Votecount 2.05

fwogcarf

(3): ofmercia, ProgoWoshua, KittyTacky

KittyTacky

(1): NorwegianboyEE

Not Voting

(3): Frogsterking, StrangeMatter, fwogcarf

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2022-03-09 11:21:56)

nevermind disregard my last statement

Both scum would likely not hop on my wagon, I thought I had five votes for some reason

[fwogcarf]

apparently my vote on strange didn't count because i didn't format it right, whoops

might as well actually provide some reads now that i have some time

[fwogcarf]

I want to say before i get limmed

I'm so sorry for my god awful play, i'm usually better than this.

Do you think scum are pushing you now? I'd like for more than this as an reaction to E-1 tbh.

Both of em are probably on my wagon

It'd be a bad play if one/none weren't

Why would it be a bad play? It'd be pretty good actually if scum managed to not be on your wagon or just 1. Since you'd flip town.

Yes I agree it would be a bad play if scum weren't on your wagon, if you flipped scum. Which is why kitty joined. He's your partner isn't he?

Why I think it's a bad play for both scum to be on my wagon is because my town flip makes the game easyish to solve from there fmpov. It's a pool of three, so you pick apart which one has the weakest case against me and go from there (at least that's what I would do).

So you either have one scum on the wagon (which is most likely) or none at all, and that makes the game exponentially harder to solve.

(Also this response comes from the knowledge of not having as many votes as I thought I did so my opinion has changed from that question, sorry if I made it super confusing)

[fwogcarf]

The only way that makes sense to me for the Tist kill is PR hunting atm, so my previous statement on that is invalid. Scum does not look like they care about killing people who are actively solving it seems.

I think Frogster/Ofmercia are both town. I'm gonna backread more in a moment

[fwogcarf]

Spoiler:

It's fwog though. Day 1 votes and reads are both almost solely based on activity. This shows a weariness to make/commit to an actual read (since mafia have to pretend to make scum reads) in fear of looking like an act.

Also this night kill is fwog's way of:
1. Progressing the mafia objective.
2. Eliminating the player he thinks will be most town.
3. Getting rid of a player that is suspicious of him.

1. He starts day 2 off with 615, the objective here is for mafia to look busy and hope town will start looking into why tist was killed. But throws me in there as the scum read of tist but doesn't outright case me for it, just shade in hopes to get a town bite. I don't think he gets any bites from town in 615 but tries again in 717. His interest in the night kill stems from him carrying it out and giving it a lot of thought and investment to just be swept under the rug.

Has Ofmercia scum, Fwog weaker scum, Norweigan Town (Places votes on the first two)

Townleaned Kitty, made an association with Progo/StrangeMatter being t/w (No read on StrangeMatter)

Voted FrogsterKing on inactivity

StrangeMatter felt more town

Scumreads Auto, townleans fwog

puts together some worlds

I can see ofmercia making a fearkill here although i'm pretty sure it would not be that obvious

You guys think the Tist kill was made to provide us with little info?

Or something along those lines.

Seeing a lot of "we don't have a lot to work with" (throwing myself into this as well because I am genuinely lost on who the team could be.)

2. Eliminating the player he thought was the most town, in 543 we can see his thought process, no one else thought this.

Tisd and fwog any player you think is scum and gives info on elimimation? I could be wrong but I feel auto gives no leads if he flips green.

Norway do you think auto is a good elimination?

I still think Auto is scum here but you are right in terms of info.

All he does if he flips red is spew Tist town imo.

You flipping red would spew Kitty town and vice versa, but I feel like scum would want to get rid of the more talkative players first instead of the lowposting ones.

3. Getting rid of a player that is suspicious of him. In 615 above you can see fwog done the research for me and found out that tist was scum reading him day 1.

Don't think I ever answered this.

Auto's ISO was mostly consisted of Tist, and so I thought "Auto and Tist can't be partners because I don't think a mafia member would consistently scumread their partner for the entirety of D1.

[fwogcarf]

I want to say before i get limmed

I'm so sorry for my god awful play, i'm usually better than this.

Do you think scum are pushing you now? I'd like for more than this as an reaction to E-1 tbh.

Both of em are probably on my wagon

It'd be a bad play if one/none weren't

Why would it be a bad play? It'd be pretty good actually if scum managed to not be on your wagon or just 1. Since you'd flip town.

Yes I agree it would be a bad play if scum weren't on your wagon, if you flipped scum. Which is why kitty joined. He's your partner isn't he?

Why I think it's a bad play for both scum to be on my wagon is because my town flip makes the game easyish to solve from there fmpov. It's a pool of three, so you pick apart which one has the weakest case against me and go from there (at least that's what I would do).

So you either have one scum on the wagon (which is most likely) or none at all, and that makes the game exponentially harder to solve.

(Also this response comes from the knowledge of not having as many votes as I thought I did so my opinion has changed from that question, sorry if I made it super confusing)

Norway asked you if you thought scum were on your wagon, and you said yes they are, it'd be a bad play if scum weren't.

Now your answer seems to have changed to yes they are on your wagon and it's a bad play from them.

Because it makes more sense for them to be on my wagon if I had FIVE votes. It makes no sense for both of them to be on when I have THREE.

Five people is harder to shuffle through than three

[fwogcarf]

Votecount 1.06 - FINAL

AutoDefenestrator

(5): fwogcarf,

TistDaniel

, ofmercia, NorwegianboyEE, KittyTacky

(HAMMER)

ofmercia

(2): Frogsterking,

AutoDefenestrator

KittyTacky

(1): StrangeMatter

Not Voting

(2): ProgoWoshua

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2022-02-27 19:15:00).

Hmm

Progo not voting there is eh. I wouldn't townread him for it.

I think there's a scum in Norwegian/Kitty. I need to read more into both of them. Other one might be in Progo/Strange

This is just based off of votecount though so it's not great but it's something

[fwogcarf]

Really don't think that all the wagons yesterday were pure however

[fwogcarf]

Really don't think that all the wagons yesterday were pure however

i mean the people who were wagons

[fwogcarf]

Also Frog's been scumreading/pushing me for the majority of today

we're not partners

[fwogcarf]

If you think it makes sense for scum to both be on me right now feel free to explain.

Because I don't think it's that way

[fwogcarf]

If you think it makes sense for scum to both be on me right now feel free to explain.

Because I don't think it's that way

[fwogcarf]

Oh nevermind Progo had a spiritual vote

They're town

[fwogcarf]

Norwegian voting Kitty and not switching off of them for the longest time makes me think they aren't partnered.

[fwogcarf]

100% a scum in Kitty/Strange based off of this. I have townreads for a good amount of people that I'm comfortable with based mainly off the votecount.

Plus the fact that I don't think Norwegian, Ofmercia, or Frogster make that Tist kill.

[fwogcarf]

Oh nevermind Progo had a spiritual vote

They're town

Norwegian voting Kitty and not switching off of them for the longest time makes me think they aren't partnered.

Fwog is there any way I can assist you in this moment?

Go for it

[fwogcarf]

Okay can you walk me through your town read of Progo?

Sure

Spoiler:

Here's the game summary that I created to help me with my reads:

#1-#61 was mostly RVS ans setup discussion (which I view as NAI), except for:

• #18 - NorwegianboyEE's Town-"Newbiereads" TistDaniel, for being a newbie asking about PR play.
  #56 - TistDaniel's votes fwogcarf, for... "discouraging other people from learning how to play town roles better"?

#62 was my "slip". #62-#87 was mostly people reacting to it.

• #66 - ofmercia asks Dunnstral's opinion on it.
  #67 - Dunnstral assumes it was a joke.
  #72 - Frogsterking's votes me over it. Frogsterking's obvtown-reads TistDaniel.
  #73 - NorwegianboyEE questions Frogsterking on "consciousness of guilt slip".
  #75 - KittyTacky questions Frogsterking on "consciousness of guilt slip".
  #79 - fwogcarf, quoting #72, dismisses the idea.
  #83 - NorwegianboyEE finds it NAI.
  #86 - KittyTacky doesn't think it's a slip.
  #87 - ofmercia scumreads me because of it, and scumreads NorwegianboyEE for defending me.

#88 is where I explain my mistake, and everyone believes it. Now, everyone is discusing everyone else's previous reaction to the "slip".

• #90 - In response to ofmercia, NorwegianboyEE defends how my mistake didn't make sense as a slip.
  #93 #94 #96 - NorwegianboyEE votes ofmercia, claiming their reason for suspect both of us doesn't make sense. ofmercia explains their reasoning, and NorwegianboyEE unvotes.
  #99 - KittyTacky suspects Frogsterking and ofmercia for possibly jumping on an early wagon, also claiming their reasoning doesn't make sense.
  #102 - I don't scumread Frogsterking and ofmercia based on their reactions to the "slip".
  #103 - ofmercia insists that their previous reaction makes sense.
  #104 - Frogsterking unvotes me.
  #106 - NorwegianboyEE don't think Frogsterking and ofmercia are partners, due to their very different reactions.
  #108 - Frogsterking thinks I'm town based on #102.
  #116 - TistDaniel votes ofmercia, for trying to incide a wagon without actually voting for me.
  #137 - Dunnstral townreads TistDaniel.
  #148 - TistDaniel's wall of text. Most of it is about people responding to his strategy. There's a paragraph about ofmercia's post-"slip" reactions. Townleans NorwegianboyEE and scumleans fwogcarf for their responses to his strategy. Scumleans on ofmercia a little harder for pushing a wagon on me without talking to me at all.
  #158 - ofmercia defends their reasoning for geting imput from Dunnstral before pushing a wagon on me. But doesn't scumread TistDaniel for acusing them.
  #170 - NorwegianboyEE votes Frogsterking for being oportunistic about my slip.
  #173 - ofmercia claims that they've believe that scum had sliped, but was hoping that wasn't the case.
  #174 - NorwegianboyEE townreads ofmercia based on #173.
  #177 - Prompted by TistDaniel, fwogcarf states his townreading of NorwegianboyEE.
  #179 - Frogsterking townreads me and TistDaniel. Has a null read on ofmercia.
  #184 - Frogsterking votes KittyTacky after reading his ISO. Scumreads Dunnstral by PoE.
  #185 - KittyTacky townreads TistDaniel and NorwegianboyEE.
  #190 - Prompted by Frogsterking, KittyTacky states a slight townlean on AutoDefenestrator and a null read on Dunnstral.
  #195 - AutoDefenestrator is neutral on TistDaniel and NorwegianboyEE, and townleans Frogsterking.
  #198 - ofmercia changes their read on TistDaniel to scum, and votes for him, based on #148.

My thoughts about everyone:

AutoDefenestrator: It's the least active player overall. He only has one post that I deem relevant for scumhunting porpuses (#195), where he claims to be neutral on TistDaniel and NorwegianboyEE, and townleans Frogsterking. It's also worth noting that he's still keeping his vote on NorwegianboyEE since the RVS. I'm inclined to say I scumlean him, but it's also possible that he's just a newbie learning to play the game, so I'll grant him a null read.

Dunnstral: Once I made my "slip", It's possible for Mafia to not push a wagon immediatly, and instead wait to see if the Town would push a wagon first. However, ofmercia asked Dunnstral about his opnion on my "slip", and he responded that he didn't think it was a slip. I think that, if he is mafia, he would express suspicion or doubt once asked, to leave the door open and push a wagon later. He didn't do that, so I think he is town.

Frogsterking: I doubt Frogsterking and ofmercia are partners. Not only because of their reactions after #88, but also because having both scum to push the same mislim on Day 1 is really risky, and I don't think they would do that. I believe ofmercia is scummier than Frogsterking, so Frogsterking gets a townlean by default.

fwogcarf: He's been one of the most active players, but he posted mostly about things I deem irrelevant for scumhunting porpuses (mostly discusing TistDaniel's strategy). He only has two relevant posts: #177, where he townreads NorwegianboyEE, and #79, which is the important one in my opnion. Again, it's possible for Mafia to not immediatly push a wagon on me after my "slip", but fwogcarf went out of his way to disagree about it being a slip completely umprompted. In my opnion, he's townier than Dunnstral.

KittyTacky: His #86 post about how he don't think I sliped comes pretty late. By then, 3 other players already said they didn't think it was a slip, so this could be read as Mafia waiting to see how the town would react to the "slip" before making a move. However, KittyTacky's earlier #75 post clears him, in my opnion. There, he doubts Frogsterking reasoning to suspect me. After that, I can believe his reasons for his reads, so I think he is town.

NorwegianboyEE: I think he's town for the exact same reason as KittyTacky. At first, he question Frogsterking's reasoning, and then states that he doesn't think I sliped. I can't find a problem with his reasons for his reads, so I think he's town.

ofmercia: In my opnion #66, #67, #72 and #87 tell a story. At first, ofmercia tries to get Dunnstral to push a wagon on me. Dunnstral doesn't do that, but Frogsterking does. Seeing the opportunity, tries to give the wagon momentum without actually geting on the wagon themselves. This looks pretty scummy to me.

TistDaniel: Before I talk about him, I want to ask him something:

A lot of people have been saying that discussing town strategy is not alignment indicative, but I'm also the most town-read player (18, 59, 60, 72, 128, 137) when most of what I've done in this game is discuss town strategy.

Is (18, 59, 60, 72, 128, 137) supposed to be a list of posts where people townread you?

(18, 72, 137) sure, but NorwegianboyEE's #59 and #60 have nothing to do with you, and #128 is from the actual mod. Explain to me how you got that wrong.

This is the first post that makes me feel good about him. I like how he steps it up in terms of his activity with this post which not only summarizes the game in a way which he understands it but also provides his conclusion off of it as well, hence the reads he has. I also like how he tries to start conversation with Tist about an issue that would help him determine what alignment his slot stands at.

Fair enough: @379

So... You don't have a problem with #379 after all?

This post and the next couple he makes after that are good to me because he brings up a point about your push on me D1 being fabricated. He does re-eval on that as well after he understands what you meant with your response, which I think a scum member would try to continue pushing that slot rather than immediately retract their read on you.

Not Voting (2) - StrangeMatter, ProgoWoshua

You two gonna vote? What's your preferences today?

It's clear that today's elimination will be one of ofmercia, Auto and Kitty.

Out of those, I'm more suspicious of Auto.

I was just going to vote them, but they are in E-1 now. Now's your chance to claim your role, Auto.

I feel like scum!Progo would've immediately hammered instead of making this post.

Spoiler:

Ok, I just started a full game analysis that will most certainly NOT be finished today. So for now I'll just spew out what I think. Note that these reads are based of my memory, so take them with a grain of salt:

Town Reads

• NorwegianboyEE: I was worried about him when he wasn't killed in Night 1, but Daniel's death makes sense in hindsight. Other than that, he's been helping town since the beginning, so I can't imagine him as Mafia.
  
  KittyTacky: It makes sense he would hammer Auto as Mafia, but it makes just as much sense he would hammer Auto as Town. He was tunneling Auto for a while, and probably suffered from confirmation bias. I still townread him from earlier in Day 1.
  
  ofmercia: Started of scummy, but got townier later. I completely get their reasoning for outing the PRs Today. In fact, I would probably came up with these sort of strategies myself (tho I would probably listen to the voice of experience).

Null Reads

• StrangeMatter: I don't remember her.

Scum Reads

• fwogcarf: I agree with ofmercia, Auto's wagon had at least one Mafia. Fwog is the only one left.
  
  Frogsterking: In the middle of Day 1, the only thing stopping me from SRing him was my SR on ofmercia. That isn't a problem now.

I like the readlist here because instead of just providing reads that are based on just activity, he's also including the votecount from D1 here as well. His analysis of my slot I feel is really good because it means he believes there was a scum on the Auto wagon (which there most definitely is.) and singles out the townies first before he gets to me.

I think him offering to change votes is NAI but he's keeping within his PoE as well so it's not outlandish

[fwogcarf]

Also Frog's been scumreading/pushing me for the majority of today

we're not partners

You posted that you town read him. Shouldn't that be enough? What does you're not partners have to do with anything? Are you claiming to be a different alignment to him? But you town read him, that means you're...?

Haven't you been pairing us together today pretty frequently along with Kitty and I?

I'm telling you that's not possible because of our interactions together.

[fwogcarf]

Interaction/partner reads are important as well because they can help shape your townreads together

That's the majority of my reads as they stand right now because 1. Interactions show they can't be partners. 2. Someone's pressure on someone else suggests they can't be partners. And the most loose reasoning for it would be two or more people working collectively to get a solve.

[fwogcarf]

It's late for me so I must head off for now

[fwogcarf]

hmmm i'm not so sure on progo

[fwogcarf]

Interaction/partner reads are important as well because they can help shape your townreads together

That's the majority of my reads as they stand right now because 1. Interactions show they can't be partners. 2. Someone's pressure on someone else suggests they can't be partners. And the most loose reasoning for it would be two or more people working collectively to get a solve.

Agreed, interactions are good. Just never seen a player making interaction reads of themself and another player. As a town trying to solve it's usually a given that you are not partners with any other player. Would be extremely pointless for town players to start making interaction/partner reads about themselves.

Yeah that makes sense

[fwogcarf]

Also Frog's been scumreading/pushing me for the majority of today

we're not partners

I checked day 2, not a single push or scum read towards you from frogster today. He has been defending you, that's all I see.

oh no fwog made ANOTHER mistake

Day 1 still backs up my point there

[fwogcarf]

hey kitty how's it going

[fwogcarf]

After ISOing both Strange and Kitty because these are the two slots i want to resolve first:

Kitty ISO

Spoiler:

It's kind of interesting to note how Kitty and Ofmercia's solving styles are. They hard-scumread each other early on for practically the same reasons (in the way that ofmercia immediately goes after Kitty after 1 post he made, along with Kitty going after ofmercia for the 1 post they made after that). Kitty did vote Ofmercia before that, which I read as a town ACTION. I don't really like their reasoning for it (I'm fine with the "Progo push seems opportunisitic reasoning, although I don't know what to make of his constant attacking afterwards when ofmercia was doing the same thing.) when he says later on that it's a "70% chance that it hits scum".

No, scum pushing town know they are wrong (aside from multiball/SK/third party but that's not a newbie game thing). That I feel can subconsciously affect play, especially after a strange play like that.

Next post

*pushing non-scum

I don't get why they needed to correct themselves here though since there's no third parties in this game, and town=non-scum regardless of how you put it.

Spoiler:

Okay so walk me through your read progression on Kitty's slot.

Part of my issue here is I look at Kitty's slot and noted that they have been pushing ofmercia for the entire day now and barring out most everything else. Part of the problem is I'm stuck on whether or not scum would end up tunneling this hard or not. I keep leaning on the latter (scum doesn't tunnel and is more likely town) right now but I see posts for the former (scum can absolutely play aggressively early, and some opportunism with how easy of a push ofmercia would be).

EBWOP.

It's getting extremely late so I'll respond later.

My other SR redeemed themself and I didn't have any more, Auto is steadily becoming scummier the more I read about him though. Tist's case on AD is also convincing. I might vote AD.

Suddenly Ofmercia's town, which is weird considering there's not really a follow-up for it. How does Auto provide "scum equity" to you (if it's based off of what I said still give your reasoning for it)?

Strange is also town to him because he's simply "an unmotivated townie".

Kitty is their any other reasoning you have besides me pushing a townread of yours that locks me down as scum? There's no extensive reasoning for it besides "she's a townie"

Strange ISO

Spoiler:

Their first interaction with someone was with Kitty. I don't know what to make with that quite yet.

I think I've seen the most scummy behavior from ofmercia, but I think true scum would make more of an effort to hide scummy behavior. Not quite ready to townread them yet, but they are at least one of the more active players.

Ofmercia is new. Honestly their posts ping me more as a newbie scum than a scummy newbie, if that makes sense.

Sorry can’t post as much but, can you point out what and why you think this?

I find it interesting how she doesn't go finding townreads and instead focuses on things that she found wrong with other players at the start of the game. A multitude of them, mind you.

Fine by me. But take my reads with this in mind.

Progo is probably town with their post about Daniel
Daniel is null (fear is mostly why though)
Norweegian I don't have a strong opinion on either there's just nothing that pings me. Null
Your slot is odd with the switches which I smell slight opportunism coming from your slot. Null-lean scum
Fwog there's a post they made that pings me as scummy where they as scum would be shading less active slots inconspicuously. Leaning scum there.
Kitty I'm really unsure, really need to look into this and I have questions I want to ask this slot about.
Ofmercia reads like a newbie who latches (similarly to another player) onto weird logic which partially pings me as misguided town.

There's nothing here that says "This person is town", and I find that weird considering there's only TWO scum in this game.

Their majority of their focus is on Kitty, who they interacted with first, so I actually think that they COULD be partners here getting interaction in. The thing that's stopping me from going all in on this is Strange voting Kitty, and I'm not sure if a wolf loosely focuses on their partner like this.

Right now my pool is Frogster/Kitty/Fwog. I'm up to vote any one of these for what I've said earlier about these slots.

Frogster and I are suddenly up there. I get Frogster being up there but there's no other mention of me in her ISO beforehand besides one interaction that we had.

There's an unironic amount of EBWOP posts they have, probably NAI but worth mentioning.

VOTE: StrangeMatter

I like this vote better than Kitty atm. I don't understand why she's scumreading me or any evidence of her "scumhunting"

[fwogcarf]

oh well it didn't format right


meh

[fwogcarf]

I'm doubtful on the Strange tunneling but the Progo push makes even less sense to me. Progo has been so transparently town to me all game.

Yes I believe you are the mark for scum. And I understand why you townread Progo.

Why

do you townread Strange??

They never did anything particularly scummy and had tried to solve. It's not a super strong townread but I don't understand the case on them.

Where are they solving exactly?

[fwogcarf]

I had completely forgotten about that whole thing in Day 1. You're right, Frog + fwog is unthinkable.

You assumed that we were the team without fact checking first?

[fwogcarf]

yeah my bad for ruining that i have no idea how the spoiler feature works on this site

[fwogcarf]

1. I mean, ok? That doesn't mean anything to THIS game.
2. Scum equity off of a hunch isn't that great of an answer imo. Any evidence you can provide why you thought that at the time? (Or if you still think it now that also works.)
3. Vibe read. I accept that now, but if Strange doesn't die today then it'll need more fleshing out
4. Hmmmm, ok. Any posts in particular?

[fwogcarf]

given that EoD is literally tomorrow morning i'll try to be there

[fwogcarf]

Progo if you're town you need to do a better job explaining your read on Kitty because if it's a genuine read you didn't make it look like one.

I'm sorry I didn't explain my reads (or talk much at all) during Day 1. Unfortunately, Day 2 is ending and I don't have time to go through the games explaining my reads.

So for now, how about we just compromise on Strange, since we are both suspicious of them?

UNVOTE: fwogcarf
VOTE: StrangeMatter

I do find it a little odd that Progo moves his vote to Strange like this

And then moves back to me immediately to give Strange breathing room.

And then goes back to Strange.

I don't think that's enough for me to be completely convinced of him quite yet but if he doesn't die today it's something worth noting

[fwogcarf]

I guess no elimination it is. Since everyone stalling.

Isn't majority a thing?

[fwogcarf]

Oh shoot it's not

Ah I didn't read that part in the OP

[fwogcarf]

strange 3
progo 2
fwog 1

i think this is current vc

[fwogcarf]

I guess no elimination it is. Since everyone stalling.

Isn't majority a thing?

Apparently not, because then why'd you not follow the two players who saved your elimination and start a new strange wagon?

would rather follow my own reads than sheep

[fwogcarf]

I say Progo and Kitty claim first then Norwee and fwog

i already claimed vanilla town

[fwogcarf]

kinda surprised frogster didn't die there but i guess keeping frogster alive means framing me

[fwogcarf]

VOTE: fwogcarf

GGs

It was completely my idea for the Tist kill and it really did screw us over lol, i'm sorry Strange for that play.

This was a funnish game though but i'll probably go back to playing the faster pace games. I definitely like those more

[fwogcarf]

First, I would like to thank Frogsterking. At the beginning of Day 2, I was still one of the least RS players of the game. The chances of I getting night killed there were pretty high, so I was actually getting nervous.

Fortunately, our little... Uhh...

Discussion

at the end of Day 2 fixed that. There was absolutely no way I was getting night killed after that. So I got relieved.

It worked, I'm still here!

I wasn't night killing you there cause i was gonna push you tomorrow lmao

good job on that

[fwogcarf]

I just completely forgot that I had to continue PR hunting to actually win

even if i did that though it wouldnt matter cause i would never kill progo

[fwogcarf]

Am I a shit player?

nah you're fine

it doesnt really matter if youre wrong on a couple of reads because people do that all the time

[fwogcarf]

From scums POV that's an hard VT claim right there.

i just killed them for being loud lmao

[fwogcarf]

i wasnt even gonna make it to endgame anyway because even through some miracle playmaking that Progo the cop does die that night i would literally be wagoned immediately

just a tiny bit salty but its only over my own play, no one to blame but myself really

[fwogcarf]

I think you played well D2 fwog.

How did you feel when I pushed you D1 fwog?

Didn't feel too pressured, I made the post that I needed to get out of it

[fwogcarf]

Good game, everyone! Really glad I got eliminated when I did. I would not have been much help for town, and I spent the last week or so traveling, so I wouldn't have been as active as usual either. But yeah, you guys handled just fine without me.

Doing you a favor