Open 840 - Guardians of the Fortress [Game Over]

Tanner · Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:13 pm

(which is also the reason why i'm wondering if i'm getting biased to shit because i know only one of them is scum etc)

Tanner · Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:19 pm

ok, it's getting a bit late here and i have a headache so excuse me if i am about to say dumb shit but - what exactly are your points that make him scum here? he wasn't willing to go along with your questioning when he felt he's already explained things? he thought you were paired with imaginality? (you already said you don't think that's outside his town range)

like, i can see his play be annoying here but why is it scummy?

pedit: @ari

Tanner · Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:20 pm

i currently have 5 tabs open on this game and i don't remember what 4 of them were even for...

Tanner · Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:25 pm

i am at the fucking point where i am ready to tinfoil an ari/vp team just fucking watch me

Tanner · Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:26 pm

In post 1183, Aristeia wrote:which post are you asking me about? can you just quote it for me pls?

971

Tanner · Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:27 pm

In post 1182, Aristeia wrote:how does it make sense for me to have a massive shitfight with him and ask for keep to be resolved first

when did you first ask to resolve the keep first? i was under the impression it was pretty up in the air which game is getting resolved first (and it still kinda is)

Tanner · Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:32 pm

i don't actually know. i've seen bravado from him as either alignment, and it would take a bit more digging to figure out if the type of bravado that ignores the rest of the game is more likely to be townie or scummy.

my first instinct is that is scummy, simply because i can think of an example of him doing something similar as town while i can't pull a similar example from memory for town, but i feel zero confidence in that answer without actually going through games.

Tanner · Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:33 pm

In post 1192, Tanner wrote:i can think of an example of him doing something similar as
scum*

Tanner · Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:42 pm

:/

i do care - but i'm also aware that i'm The Target for pocketing right now and that i need to be questioning things. and right now i'm not convinced by your arguments for why he's scum? and i do want your analysis on 971.

@ari

Tanner · Wed Dec 29, 2021 12:46 pm

i'm going to bed, so that i maybe fall asleep before 3am tonight. while i'm gone, can someone play my lawyer and make sure rh9 gets some content out?

i do think we should flip *something* soon. need to see when is the new deadline gonna be, but yeah.

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:37 am

In post 1275, imaginality wrote:(Eight including Prism who is not only modding but is also part of a hydra with Pooky, the hydra being VP Baltar (this bastard game has been planned for decades))

i just wanna comment how i'm reading this game over my 1:30pm breakfast, and this made me laugh for so long that my mom was like "ay yo what the fuck are you laughing at"

ok actual game content from me later

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:43 am

this argument between implo and rh9 is a lot of words and it gives me a headache, will think about it later, gonna go for a walk while there's still some sun outside

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:54 am

sup fucks i'm back from my walk, who missed me

for the duration of my walk, i first came up with a psychological case-study reason why baltar is like 99.9% town here, then i came up with a reason why i should hammer him on the next possible occasion, and THEN i came up with a reason why imaginality/aristea is definitely 2/3rds of our scumteam here

aren't you glad you /inned into this game?

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:57 am

In post 1314, Pavowski wrote:I re-read my own question and maybe I'm being stupid or overthinking or both

I mean if scum!RH is bussing scum!Luke to TR me here, that seems like trading a very good scum situation for a very dicey one (sacrificing Luke, who's in a ... not terrible position to win the keep to gain towncred to help scum!RH win the wall, which favors scum anyway).

Am I wrong?

why are you assuming that rh9 thinks he's actually gonna get listened to wrt the keep?

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:08 am

In post 1320, VP Baltar wrote:Tanner, any players you want to discuss before I'm gone?

why have you suddenly gotten this idea in your head that i'm resolving the gate first?

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:15 am

ok but like, this is lowkey creeping me out

because i said i wanted something else flipped before gate

and we both said it should be the keep

and then imaginality started pointing out which flips in the keep make you look bad

and all of a sudden you're pressuring me into voting here?

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:17 am

why do you now want to flip imaginality

what is going on

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:19 am

i am not calling you mafia >_>

i did read, it was more of a "is that really the reason" type post

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:24 am

i also mentioned how i wanted to hammer baltar, so... it's just me going over the thoughts that occurred to me while i was out on a walk. not any super strong cases i'm gonna act out on yet.

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:30 am

In post 1338, VP Baltar wrote:I want out basically.

me too. but i don't have that luxury >_>

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:35 am

In post 1341, Aristeia wrote:is there something you think you will get if you stew over this decision any longer?

i want to think i will, realistically i'm not sure it's going to happen.

%-wise, how sure are you on your reads of the gate?

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:50 am

and the other view is that... vpb is so batshit insane he has to be town, and imaginality fucked up by not being consistent in his pre-flip keep analysis?

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:16 am

In post 1355, Lukewarm wrote:
In post 1315, Tanner wrote:THEN i came up with a reason why imaginality/aristea is definitely 2/3rds of our scumteam here
Was this before or after reading their 1v1 last night?

after, it's a meta-reason that has nothing to do with the 1v1

basically, if imaginality is scum - why the fuck am i the ic, when i said i was town on baltar and scum on imaginality? the only reason that happens is if the team thought that winning imaginality v tanner is MORE difficult than winning imaginality v baltar. and i think the only way scum could've thought something like that is if both (1) they knew that my "i don't lose 1v1's" wasn't an empty threat and (2) they knew that baltar and i have history together and that he probably can read me better than rand. and i think ari is the only person here who should be aware of both of those things.

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:19 am

of course there's probably at least 5 holes in that analysis, but i don't pride myself in actually being good at this game

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:21 am

hi implo, what's up

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:31 am

if it were up to you, what is the first thing we do here?

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:32 am

if you're gonna give a boring answer like "vote luke at the keep", tell me what you wanna do after that because >_>

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:53 am

In post 1372, implosion wrote:Cons: Tanner will no longer feel the burden of having a vote that matters and will inevitably lose focus and slip into a fugue state

bold of you to fucking assume that the burden of knowing i'm supposed to be helping y'all will let me rest and step away from the game

why is imaginality a scumfuck

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:59 am

i'm gonna go grab some fucking alcohol again i hate this game

baltar, opinion on rh9?

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 9:07 am

aristeia, you are a joy to be around and you make me keep the little bit of my sanity i have left while i have to listen to these two scream at each other

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:20 am

In post 1390, VP Baltar wrote:I do want to closely read RH9's reads post today. I only read his section on me last night, and it felt like he was townbinning me for the wrong reasons. I'm back at work today, but I'll update when I have time.

damn, and here i was about to hammer imaginality. i guess the hammer will have to wait after all ))):

In post 1392, VP Baltar wrote:Implo has been staunchly advocating for imaginality-scum, so I really don't see him being scum with Ari.

explain the connection to me?

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:26 am

In post 1396, VP Baltar wrote:Don't troll me just bc you living that mad IC life.

if i gotta be miserable being the ic, you bet your ass i'm gonna be as annoying as humanly possible and make sure scum deeply regrets their decisions, whoever they might be

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:27 am

what happened with wanting to read rh9's post? (:

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:01 pm

i wonder if the team is something dumb like pav/imaginality/numberq and i have been agonizing over this game for the last week for NOTHING

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:08 pm

i just realized i could be a complete fucking asshole and go "btw i'm not voting in my game until like an hour before final deadline lol glhf"

pedit: there probably are but right now head be empty

the way that question is phrased makes me think you want to vote? (just answer the q, don't actually do it)

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:17 pm

In post 1417, Lukewarm wrote:Interestingly, Ari was hard scum reading Baltar while she was advocating for the Keep to go first (1137). Which is the order that that could make sense as a scum play. Push him hard, get flipped red, hope that clears him. Compare that to imaginality, she pushed him hard and seems to be okay with imaginality flipping first.

1137 is my post?

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:21 pm

In post 1417, Lukewarm wrote:Interestingly, Ari was hard scum reading Baltar while she was advocating for the Keep to go first (1137). Which is the order that that could make sense as a scum play. Push him hard, get flipped red, hope that clears him. Compare that to imaginality, she pushed him hard and seems to be okay with imaginality flipping first.

The approach with Baltar would have had the potential to win both games. The approach with imaginality tanks one game to win the other. I don't really see the need for Scum!Ari to make that drastic switch when Gate->Keep likely won her the game with her prior approach.

could you explain this to me? because based on the colours, i'm assuming you're saying you think she'd be partnered with imaginality, but i don't get how you come to that conclusion if your read is "the approach with imaginality wins one and tanks the other"?

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:28 pm

ok but who is scum if ari is town then? i still don't get it

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:29 pm

luke having a migraine and me being drunk and tired, i bet this conversation looks very fun to an outsider

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:29 pm

In post 1442, Tanner wrote:ok but who is scum if ari is town then? i still don't get it

who is scum if ari is scum

aaaaaaah

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:30 pm

are you *trying* to give me a stomach ulcer, because it's working

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:36 pm

no joke, i've been calling my doc for like the whole day yesterday about getting a booster, and she wasn't picking up

not even the big pharma wants me

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:40 pm

and that is kind of why i am lowkey terrified of ari being voted atm, like... oof

but i also know attempting to read ari associates post her flip is gonna be an actual headache

you know how yesterday i was shitposting about ari/vp team? bro

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:45 pm

you see, if only i could confidently say "both luke and pav are town" then i would have SOME peace of mind that i am not going to be seduced into a loss here but where is pav??? i have higher expectations of town!pav

which may be unfair because if the dude is town he replaced into a very poopy slot but like

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:50 pm

mmm, vp, you mentioned notes? what kinda notes are you keeping?

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:52 pm

In post 1458, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1457, Tanner wrote:you see, if only i could confidently say "both luke and pav are town" then i would have SOME peace of mind that i am not going to be seduced into a loss here but where is pav??? i have higher expectations of town!pav

which may be unfair because if the dude is town he replaced into a very poopy slot but like
Why do you think Luke is scum?

i don't, he's currently who i'd want to be voted at the keep

my issue is, if aristeia is scum, i am kind of scared what those associates mean for you/imag bc i think ari is aware of some things and would 100% be trying to fuck with my head there if she was scum

and pav is like, i have a pet town!pav theory that i cannot justify with anything other than my gut so

this game is fucked is the tl;dr

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 12:54 pm

do you make notes in a similar fashion when you're scum?

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:07 pm

because it's like, (1) i remember you once mentioning how you were taking notes when catching up in jungle oligarchy and (2) some details like that are something that almost never occurs to me to fake as scum so i'm like if *that* is a galaxy brain pocket then bruh

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:15 pm

first of all, fuck you, i wasn't ctrl+f'ing "note" in your scumgames from last year

second of all what in the everloving fuck is this:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11943578
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11956698
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11956705
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11956721

like, the amount of "MY NOTES" is actually agh

though to be fair, it looks fairly more natural in jungle oligarchy where he was like "in my notes i have it that datisi's slot is totally scum" (it was not btw) and this game it looks more like "did i mention i have notes so very townie only townies have notes right?"

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:16 pm

and the game we are currently playing looks closer to the town game but what if that's what he wants me to think???

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:22 pm

In post 1474, VP Baltar wrote:that my friend is what we call a shit show. The entire scum team was just shitting it up all game. Then we died immediately.

been there, done that

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:23 pm

Spoiler: here is a meme that would fit much better if i were posting it from my main account but goddamn if it isn't fitting right now anyway

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:24 pm

In post 1475, Pavowski wrote:I still think from a pure meta perspective yanking me into the keep points to scum!Luke

what are the meta scumpoints? link me if you've weighed in about that already, it's like 1:30am here

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:26 pm

another thing that i am thinking of is that i remmeber baltar being like "but yo like i fucking wish i rolled scum against you bc i wanna be a petty asshole and trick you" and like what if that's why he decided to go to the same location as me? am i just paying for my sins now???

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:43 pm

you have called me a coward like 5 times today

not saying i don't deserve it, but like, do you have to >_>

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:50 pm

well okay it's 2am and i am going to sleep, try to not kill each other while i'm gone

or do

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:55 pm

do i have to? >_>

like, my current idea for the keep, from town to scum, is luke>pav>ari but my confidence in this is SO LOW i would rather go to bed and hope the three of you manage to figure it out yourself

besides, i really do not want to be playing the dictator here

pedit: the fight is entertaining yeah

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:02 pm

i am regretting not going to the keep, yeah.

as i said, i am not going to say "x is the scummiest one, vote someone else" because fuck that. i'm not a dictator. i said what i think, but my reads are no better than rand, in fact they are probably worse than rand considering i am the ic. i will not be mad at anyone here if they're town and they listen to themselves and it turns out bad. but like... don't force me to be doing everything. it's your minigame.

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:04 pm

dude it's two am and i am tired as shit and i am literally glued to my phone refreshing this game fuck

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:08 pm

ari, would you troll me? like, i'm legit gonna be sad if you're trolling me

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:08 pm

someone is trolling me, i hate all of you

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:09 pm

In post 1548, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1543, Tanner wrote:someone is trolling me, i hate all of you
I tried to make your life super easy

i hate your pocketing scum ass especially oh my god i hate this game

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:10 pm

"let's play a game that is just three lylos" what is wrong with me

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:13 pm

baltar, how the fuck are you so chill right now, what the f

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:14 pm

scum has every reason to call themselves town, as this isn't end of the game, it's end of phase 1, and if they reveal now it's more time for everyone to partner hunt

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:15 pm

In post 1563, Aristeia wrote:
In post 1559, Tanner wrote:baltar, how the fuck are you so chill right now, what the f
we're laughing at you in the scum pt together

oh god you're scum
ari why

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:16 pm

In post 1566, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1559, Tanner wrote:baltar, how the fuck are you so chill right now, what the f
I think Pav is bullshitting.

you have my faintest glimmer of hope that that is happening but somehow i am not quite certain lole

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:17 pm

time to reread the whole fucking game tomorrow i gUESS

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:20 pm

In post 1580, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1573, Tanner wrote:time to reread the whole fucking game tomorrow i gUESS
Hammer imaginality please. I will legit be mad if that scumbag is not killed.

i got a hammer with your name on it brother don't fucking try me

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:11 pm

what

and i cannot stress this enough

the fuck

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:13 pm

In post 1530, Lukewarm wrote:I guess I break the ice then

VOTE: ari

????????????

did luke forget how keep works?

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:14 pm

i am so confused

at least my crack theory on pav being town was correct i guess??

i need to sleep

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:17 pm

and for like, the last 20 minutes i have been thinking how i'm gonna enter here and be like "wow gee baltar, such a funny coincidence that you told the people at the keep to not listen to me and go with their own will when i was calling scum scum and one townie was calling scum town"

but nevermind i guess

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:18 pm

probably... but ari was literally constantly posting, seems like the worst possible time for that >_>

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:22 pm

maybe i should just sheep rh9? didn't he enter the game screaming how luke is scum

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:24 pm

In post 1602, Aristeia wrote:Lukewarm - Implosion - Imaginality

or maybe this, idk

rereading the game tomorrow

it's almost 3:30am

pedit: i don't think i want to be the game deciding hammer (:

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:20 pm

4:20am ayoo i can't sleep

this is like a note for myself to check wtf was up with baltar reads bc i think he was calling ari scum at some point, but once she was hammered, he was like "town flip"

ok cool gn

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:22 pm

In post 1535, VP Baltar wrote:aw shit. Let's go flip town!

like, person he was scumreading for hammered? so fucking chill gives zero shits

idk i'll think about it tomorrow

Tanner · Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:29 pm

In post 1650, imaginality wrote:- what can Luke guarantee will happen by making that vote, that he couldn't guarantee if he didn't?
- how does that help his scum team enough to be worth slashing his odds of winning Keep?

he can guarantee that his game is the one flipped first, which would help his scumteam if his associates are such in a way that would lead us down the wrong path. is that what you were aiming for?

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:40 am

In post 1654, imaginality wrote:I think that's significant with Ari in particular who'd just shifted from scum reading VP to scum reading me based primarily on a misinterpretation.

i was under the impression that she shifted to scumreading you mostly based on the fact she started townreading vp?

and that analysis is... fine, i guess, my only issue with it is that vp/implo team doesn't make sense based on d1. when i first proposed that vp/imaginality/implo go to the same location, vp first agreed, then said that he actually wants someone else to be the third, then proposed implo go to the keep instead? if i'm assuming that scum isn't purposefully putting the minigame numbers as 2-1-0, then those two don't really make sense.

i'll definitely do some rereading today anyway. that scumflip is a huge egg on my face, i don't trust myself to be making any calls now, at least not yet.

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:44 am

In post 11, VP Baltar wrote:I don't really have strong feelings about where I go. Now that you brought this up, I'm half considering going where you go because I feel fairly confident I can actually town read you at this point (of course, haven't seen your scum game in awhile, so who knows)

i was skimming earlier, and i thought this is actually fairly +town in the same way that aristeia's "come to the keep with me so i can vote you" is +town. right after i said i want to go to the keep, baltar is proposing (1) that we go to the same location together and (2) that he is confident in being able to townread me. if we were to end up at the keep, he either has to correctly townread me (lose the keep) or bullshit something why this is my scumgame, which would make me scumread him and vote the third person (lose the keep).

granted, don't know how much water this holds if lukewarm entered the scumchat like "ok i'm locking in the keep immediately fuck y'all", *and* considering he was lowkey angling towards a scumread on me on day 1... pain.

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:49 am

on *another* note, luke flipping scum looks potentially bad for vp (bc vp wanted luke to to be the one voted in the keep) and ari flipping green looks potentially good for imaginality (bc he wanted her to get voted). so if we're going by *that* route, it's kinda puzzling why scum!luke would be like "ackchually we're resolving the keep now" when i was giving very clear indication that i was on the verge of voting baltar.

why do i play mafia

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:52 am

aaaand if i were to vote, and baltar were to flip red, that makes ari look bad? because she went to trying to pocket me and get me to vote imaginality? wouldn't that have made the keep easier to win? instead of doing the yolo suicide strats?

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:00 am

interesting that baltar was like "yo, why is imaginality wanting to give ari the voting power when she would obviously vote luke, that implies a scum!luke" *twice* when that never happened. tmi slip?

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:14 am

In post 560, Tanner wrote:
In post 558, Lukewarm wrote:Also, Baltar, you do realize that imaginality is only confirmed
town
from your POV, and not from tanner's, right?
luke and vp confirmed scum ggwp

wouldn't it be really fucking funny if

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:34 am

i'm currently out, and i'm not sure if there's a point in me discussing this stuff until i sit down and actually reread at least parts of this game. and this cursed game kept me up till 5am last night so i would like at least half a day off. will be back on it before the new year here, though.

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 2:39 am

ok my "half a day break" has turned into a "half an hour break"

that's pretty quick to conclude who's the last scum, eh?

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 2:56 am

i'm rereading my argument with luke on day 1 and how he was misrepping me and i feel very dumb now

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:08 am

though i'm not sure how much stock i should be putting into "scum would be trying super hard to be 1-1-1". not only were they guaranteed to not autolose on day 1 based on ari and luke locking into keep within the first 3 minutes, i still think my feelings of most of the game being "i don't care where i go" on day 1 are valid, especially now that we know that pav was town. means scum didn't really care about where they go.

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:17 am

In post 1522, VP Baltar wrote:I so bad want to provide commentary haha.

why didn't you provide commentary and what did you want to say?

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:44 am

baltar, do you have an opinion on why luke decided to brute force the keep to flip first

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:09 am

In post 1680, VP Baltar wrote:I was going to say at that point that Luke and Pav should cross vote with ari deciding, but that actually would have been pointless because Luke could have self hammered.

i still find it kinda wild that apparently, even after being in day 2 for like... 5? days? you still thought there's gonna be a cross-vote rather than someone self-hammering as soon as they get the chance.

like, i can't even say that this is ai, but like.

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:46 am

okay, i'm up to page 33 in my reread, and my current solve is "waiting for rh9 and numberq to do some goddamn analysis now that we have a scumflip so that i don't have to. and possibly bully implo into doing more"

my new year's eve >_>

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:09 am

why does imaginality ic me when i said i'm scumreading him and townreading you? like i realize i fucked up massively on d1 by actually talking about it but why does he do that?

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:04 am

without exaggeration, still the hardest i have been snown in a mafia game by a single person.

but that's not my problem here. my problem is that i am awfully bad ta hammer votes like this. and whenever it was a clear cut decision of "x is scum", that was wrong. and then there's also the fact that scum deliberately chose me, with these reads, to be the ic. and i'm supposed to just accept it?

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:18 am

less than four hours to new year's, i'm wandering through this heavy ass fog, half the light streets aren't working, and i'm rereading a year and a half old mafia game.

In post 1703, VP Baltar wrote:I actually would feel bad for snowing you like this.

ain't snowing me if i hammer you!

also, master town strats - have such a mental breakdown that scum straight up confesses ahahaha

don't do that tho

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:30 am

i just reread d4 of 2157 for god knows which time and now my head hurts again

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:38 am

how should i feel about the fact that you said scum!you here would go with imaginality and a yeetbait, ic imaginality and kill the yeetbait, considering your first choice was an imaginality/you/darby gate?

pedit: would you seriously stoop to SUCH ate if you were scum here? i know you gotta say yes but like goddamn

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:47 am

i don't actually see anything wrong with that, but then again, i have been called scum-irl before so

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:59 am

i started rereading a game where you were town in yelo and for a second i was like "aha, here he's doing vca, and in my game he hasn't analyzed a single fuckin vote count" before i remembered

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:19 am

i mean, i am kind of treating it as game 3/3 because i feel like wall is going to be rng-roulette

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:28 am

In post 1296, implosion wrote:Right now I'm not entirely sure why we should drastically adjust reads in other games based on how earlier games flip anyhow - again having accurate reads in game X while playing in game Y does not really make one more likely to be town.

The one kind of analysis I do think is directly valid in this way is the analysis around whether the game was 1-1-1 or 2-1-0. That is to say, if we flip wall and keep before gate, and it turns out it was 2-1-0 before the swap, then suddenly any argument around imaginality not wanting to 1v1 VP becomes much less valid, because imaginality would have been forced to 1v1 either VP or Tanner. If it turns out it was 1-1-1 before the swap, then suddenly those arguments gain additional credence because we'd then have to account for why exactly scum chose to swap this pair of people.

imagine if scum!implo wrote this post, that would be fuckin wild man

my problem is, well, that implo-pav swap kinda Makes Sense regardless if it was 1-1-1 or 2-1-0. if it's 2-1-0, they yeet pav into keep who's likely never getting voted, and the strongest townread is at the wall who basically guarantees a win there. so that makes sense. if it's 1-1-1 and implo is town, it *still* makes sense to throw pav into the keep since that essentially again turns it into a 50/50 because we're never voting pav, and they have a 50/50 at the wall, and maybe i am confbiased i don't wanna do this ._.

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:34 am

In post 1727, VP Baltar wrote:Alright. I guess I just feel like the gate is a much easier solve than the wall, all things considered.

it is, that's the problem

if i fuck it up, i will be The Person That Screwed Up The Easy Minigame and maybe even Cost Town The Game OuO

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:41 am

hmm

if implo is scum, that means imaginality is scum, because it doesn't make sense for baltar to not once, but twice shove his buddy into a game that is already got 1 scum and 1 town (first agreeing implo goes with him/imag, then sending him to keep)

if implo is town, that means imaginality is town, because scum decided to keep the gate (haha) the same way it was and why would they do that unless? vp is a scumfuck pocketing me

there we go game solved i am sure there are no problems with the above at all (:

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:47 am

In post 1723, implosion wrote:look if we want to resolve gate first that's fine. I was saying wall should go first if Tanner wants to know that I'm town because me being town is in principal very relevant information for reading Gate.

ok wait pause

this post and the one before implies that you have a certain degree of certainty that 1-1-1 is decently scum!indicative for baltar, no?

so why are you like, very timid around it instead of going full force "yo tanner you should uhh fuckin yeet vp"?

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:55 am

rh9, that post was a 90% shitpost

who is scum between baltar/imag and who is scum between you/nq/implo?

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:14 am

i mean... wall being the easiest game for scum is a factual statement. and one scum must always end up at the wall. how is that openwolfy or town!indicative.

and, imaginality's posts are more refined than baltar's. yeah. how is that relevant to alignment?

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:23 am

but like... scum!implo doesn't actually lose anything by you being aware the wall is easiest for scum...?

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:30 am

i feel like, 95% of the time i read a post of yours, i have no clue if it's sarcasm or not, and that fascinates me

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:52 am

sell me why this isn't your scumgame - without ate-y stuff

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:12 pm

happy new year from the land of europe!

i had a vague plan of how fuckin cool would it be if i did my first post in 2022 as a hammer on imaginality and then we won this game but alas i am too much of a coward

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:38 pm

In post 1755, RH9 wrote:If you want a confidence boost, Tanner, should we flip the Wall first? Maybe, when you see the results, you can confidently hammer imaginality. Or, you don't have to at all because we win the Wall. After all, we only need to win two minigames in order to win. I propose that we should heed implosion's 1723 and then we can defeat those scum.

why do you think that me seeing the wall flip will give me the confidence i need to hammer imaginality???

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:44 pm

i have 9!!! tabs open on this game and i do not remember what ANY of them are!!!

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:46 pm

HOW can i use those associatives?? how will they bring me to scum!imaginality???

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:47 pm

i'm stuck with
scumfuck vp who is trying every angle he can to pocket me
implo who's not solving the game because he's busy writing poetry
and rh9 who i think is just laughing at me every post he makes

goddamn this game i miss aristeia

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:50 pm

vp while i'm arguing with rh9: nowhere to be seen

vp when i call him scum: there in less than two minutes

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 12:58 pm

i'm not great at math, but isn't 9! like much larger than 162, implo are you drunk already

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:05 pm

this is where i would ask if you play apex but i myself have not played it in like far over a year now and i suck at it anyway so

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:32 pm

ah, i definitely knew that multifactorials are a thing that exists.

a) pro-town is nice, but in reality it's a pro-baltar slot. if you're town, you go with a person you have a somewhat good readrate on. if you're town, you get an opportunity to send me back into therapy. i can't really fault you for taking this route if you're town, after all i wanted to be selfish wrt the keep, but the truth is i did say i townread you on d1 and i became an ic by scum's choice on n1. and i have to take that into account.

b) i would want to reread your stuff to verify. it is true that you have engaged with a shit ton of things this game but i'm not sure if it's to the level fo unfakeable yet. it's like... you have been sorty and townie and all that but like. it's weird to say "i can be accountable for my reads" when this is a setup that we are playing.

c) i have seen heavy mechanical blunders from both sides so this isn't something i can take at face value

d) it's true, i don't think there's any way in hell you could have predicted that i would make a callback to that one (1) post in jungle oligarchy where you mentioned having notes, or that one (1) post in 2195 where you mentioned being labile in your reads as town. like, you would have to be a psychic for that. but the question remains that these might be traits of your game of mafia as a whole, and not necessarily town!indicative.

e) i mean, this is a setup where associates are very important to manipulate, and we can assume luke's associates with the rest of the gang are probably Good considering he forced his own flip first. but even ignoring all that, this is something i REALLY need to reread to see if that timeline holds up -- and frankly i have too much alcohol in my system right now for that

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:34 pm

In post 1778, Tanner wrote:if you're
scum*
, you get an opportunity to send me back into therapy.

this is the second time this game i miswrote "town" when i wanted to write "scum" wrt you, i wonder what my subconsciousness is trying to tell me

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:45 pm

In post 1780, VP Baltar wrote:I wouldn't do that.

yes you fucking would lmao i know you

Tanner · Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:06 pm

i mean, no matter your alignment, i am aware that it is not fun to deal with my lylo tantrums, so

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:25 am

good

morning

evening, what fresh hell have you scumfucks prepared for me this time

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:52 am

here's another thought - maybe luke didn't think his scumflip would help win the other two games. maybe he thought somebody else's scumflip would have tanked his odds of winning the keep.

bah, i still need to reread this shit

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:59 am

In post 1820, VP Baltar wrote:He simply says "implosion is the least likely to be limped, therefore he is scum"....which.

... You say the VP/Luke/implo scum team sacrificed the Keep because they are likely to win the Gate and the Wall. But why not just win the Keep and have much better odds overall?

this has me thinking. maybe we're overly focusing on the gate. maybe luke's scumflip helps somebody else. implo isn't likely to be limped, sure, but he was already likely to win the wall anyway if he's scum.

did anyone else notice how weird luke and toog/rh9 relations are this game? like, luke started off townreading toog and straight up inviting him to the keep which he obviously refused if he's scum. okay. then toog got sick and disappeared from the game. fine.

then rh9 replaced in, and whoooo boy. first he made a readslist where his ONE AND ONLY scumread is luke. like. isn't that just a bit odd?? and his reasons for scumreading luke were??? ? ?? ? ? ? and then luke starts going how he really REALLY wants to suddenly yeet rh9?? and then he just fucking goes and commits scooter ankle at the keep?

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:06 am

In post 1216, Lukewarm wrote:
In post 1205, RH9 wrote:I think that you forgot that Lukewarm desperately wanted to win and swapped you and Pavowski in order to fulfil his desire. Remember 125. Lukewarm was hellbent on winning Keep and scum!Lukewarm would have saw you as a threat.
What does this even mean?

How does swapping Pav and implo "help me fulfil my desire?"
You seem to be talking to Implo like he is town, so from your pov that means we were at :

Scum!luke, Ari, Implo at the Keep and scum!numberQ, toog, pav at the Wall.

Why not swap toog over pav? In popcorn Toog had me as his top town read and pav read me as scum? And pav acts paranoid of me in every game since my scum newbie game. And then Pav would have been the miselim bait at the wall

This feels like you started with the idea that you were going to call me scum, and went with it.

like, look at this. this almost feels like. like rh9 dropped into this game, read the scum pt, saw some stuff about having to distance from buddies or whatever. so he painted luke to be scummy. but then he also wrote about how luke really wanted to win the keep. and like, considering the histories of luke and pav, i can kinda imagine the conversation in the scum pt where luke is like "ay yo let's swap pav into the keep because not only is his slot garbage, he's my friend and i get to fool him and win the keep" like

and the fact that rh9 mentioned something like that makes me wonder if this was a tmi slip from reading the scum pt

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:07 am

and 1813 kinda feels like "look at me i am town because this flipped scum was calling me scum"

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:27 am

In post 1823, Tanner wrote:maybe he thought somebody else's scumflip would have tanked his odds of winning the keep.

actually not sure if this makes sense... baltar has been screaming to resolve the gate for like 5 years now, i don't think it would make sense for luke to hurry *then* if baltar's scumflip would have made him look bad, or at least would have made aristeia look good which is also a problem

imaginality's scumflip would have potentially been a hindrance, i guess?

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:34 am

thinking about it more - baltar and rh9 are the two people who have used the argument of "luke was talking shit about me" in 1750 and 1813 respectively. and that would make sense why luke committed sudoku right after he got some distancy-theatre in with rh9, as he already had some in with baltar. and even if gate flipped first, it was becoming increasingly obvious ari isn't paired with either of the possible scumfucks at the gate...

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:12 am

In post 1832, VP Baltar wrote:If you do somehow manage to fuck up the gate, this post from me is probably key for the wall when you see my green flip.

oh i'll manage to fuck it up don't worry

also this doesn't seem *that* clearing to me? like it seems like -partner yeah, but scum sometimes do be wildin' and i wouldn't bet the game just on this one post

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:23 am

in a normal game, maybe. in this clusterfuck where associates are key and where scumfuck luke decided he was flipping first? idk

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:25 am

we posted that at the same second and i did not get p'edited but yes i see your point

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:28 am

i was rereading an old notes thread yesterday where i said "i think vp is town because SURELY scum!him doesn't consciously put his foot in his mouth this hard" and i was correct about that in that game; now i'm rereading his iso (but backwards) and i find these posts and i'm like hmm

Spoiler:

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:30 am

like, not only does he go "actually fuck you ari you scum" then he also goes "ACTUALLY this is scum!luke that fucked up and voted a townie" like bruh

pedit: oh no

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:31 am

if implo hammers that i am going to scream

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:00 am

implo, you don't slowroll this yeah?

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:01 am

In post 1851, VP Baltar wrote:Fascinating development from all the hemming and hawing.

when gate was supposed to be the first shit to flip but the ic is a coward so everything else is getting resolved first

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:12 am

i mean... that assumes that i actually agree with your theory

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:16 am

In post 1862, RH9 wrote:I think that my vote on numberQ definitely got reactions from everybody but numberQ. Once I get his reaction, which I can use to sort him, then maybe just maybe I will unvote.

rh9 really out here using a 3p-lylo vote as a "reaction test" my god

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:20 am

In post 1863, imaginality wrote:
In post 1861, Tanner wrote:i mean... that assumes that i actually agree with your theory
No, even if I were scum you could still hammer VP and win at the Wall. Because no way is implosion scum if I'm scum, so he won't autohammer.

Whereas when I flip town, implosion is in ideal position right now to win at Wall.

i think i missed the memo on why implosion and you cannot be scum together. because even if i were to agree with your theory of "luke lowered his chance of winning keep because he's certain in the other two games, and implo is in best standing at the wall", that doesn't mean you can't be partners?

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:22 am

In post 1865, implosion wrote:and tbh i would probably slowroll here as scum

yeah, i realized there is some value in this game to slowrolling, as opposed to the usual "just being an asshole"

which kinda sucks, i just came up with a theory on why it could be rh9, but i keep thinking his posts are just too wild to be scum lmao

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:30 am

i already explained it. you enter the game, start calling luke scum for absolutely nonsense reasons, luke 180's his read on you and starts calling you scum, and then accelerates the keep flip. it doesn't feel natural at all.

you just claimed that you're using a 3p-lylo vote as a reason test. i don't think anything more needs to be said.

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 2:39 pm

baltar, could you point me in the direction of the immense grillings that luke was giving you over whatever shit it was? i don't feel like reading through either of your 200+ post isos to find it and i wanted to at least look at that today

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 4:08 pm

hi sorry i am bacc

i did read the posts that you quoted, and yeah. a lot of them seem to be in the similar vein of the arguments he had with me on d1, but that might just eb his style of faking reads, not necessarily with townies. i also went back through his iso while ctrl+f'ing "imag" and there definitely is... much less. i think there was 1? maybe 2 direct questions, and they seemed, like. bland and boring.

i did find some confusing stuff when luke was talking about imaginality's read case list, i'll have to reread those parts tomorrow when it's not 4am

now, a part of me is decently wondering if this is luke+baltar scumteam and luke purposefully had associates that were *nothing* with imaginality so that the scumlord baltar could push these arguments after luke's flip. a rebuttal to this theory is that baltar has been *screaming* for the hammer in the gate for like the whole day now, so it seems a bit of a weird strategy to set up these associates only to have baltar flip first? and like, his flip would just spew ari town so it's not like it actually like, worked two ways

i should also check imag>luke and baltar>luke assoc tomorrow too maybe

and re implo: what is the town motivation for voting a person they essentially have a nullread on? i'll have to go check if there's actually been any progression there but

but also i am kinda getting it in my head that implo is scum here who's just waiting to see if i'm about to fuck up gate to see if he can hammer for the win so like

Tanner · Sat Jan 01, 2022 4:10 pm

In post 1879, Tanner wrote:read case list

read case list

don't play mafia after midnight kids

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:42 am

In post 1881, implosion wrote:tanner would you be angry if i hammered and rh9 was scum

outside the game? no, not really. within the game, i'd probably curse not only you but also your entire bloodline.

if you're town, i don't envy your position. numberq has straight up abandoned us, and rh9 feels like an AI playing mafia. if i had to hammer within your game right this very second, i'd go rh9. numberq has pinged me townie a few times, while neither toog nor rh9 did; and i stand by my observation that rh9's entry into this game is +partner with luke. like, he enters the game, has one and only scumread, the reasons for that scumread are shaky at best, that scumread starts theatering with him and ~arguing~, and then that scumread decides to accelerate the flipping of the keep. it doesn't feel natural, and the fact that it went both ways feels very concerning to me. but i'd be lying if i said i feel a great amount of certainty about it.

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:25 am

if your scumplan this game really is "yell at me until i hammer", i'm gonna be like. a little mad. just a little.

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:33 am

In post 158, Lukewarm wrote:@Everyone, how good would you rate yourself in Elo?

of course this was a fucking scum question that i decided to voluntarily answer to and say how much i hate being confirmed town in yelo

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:35 am

In post 1887, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1886, Tanner wrote:if your scumplan this game really is "yell at me until i hammer", i'm gonna be like. a little mad. just a little.
Imagine my annoyance as town waiting for days for this hammer.

i mean, if you are town here. you spend like the majority of day 1 trying to make sure i don't have the final say in the minigame assignments because you were afraid i was some galaxy brain powerwolf trying to force out an insta townloss ~somehow~. considering you were already *that* wary of me on day 1, tell me you wouldn't be sweating if you had been ic'ed here >_>

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:45 am

rh9, how often do you usually have scumreads on day 1?

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:01 am

In post 309, imaginality wrote:
In post 305, Tanner wrote: 285 got me thinking. if ari and luke are town/town, then scum would surely be trying to angle themselves to get into the keep. but i think what i mentioned earlier was right, nobody actually showed much care about where they get assigned. working backwards, that would mean ari/luke are t/s? it's probably wrong to be making that many assumptions.

I've been having similar thoughts.
This is also a reason why we might want to resolve Keep first if it still has Luke and Ari in it - if they turn out to be town/town then there's highly likely scum amongst the conspicuous "I don't care where I end up"-ers.

what was the logic behind this? you said "i've been having similar thoughts" then outed a conclusion that was completely opposite from my own

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:08 am

In post 1142, imaginality wrote:
In post 1137, Tanner wrote:my issue with the keep is like. i have no fucking clue who is scum there, lol. if i'm going with my brain, i'd want luke voted. but if i'm going with my gut, i'd want pav because goddamn i still really like the "both vp and imaginality wanted pav to be their third" idea
You said this before too but I never said I wanted DArby? In 273 I said DArby and numberQ should go together, in 275 I suggested Toog should be the third with me and VP (i saw us as potentially T/T/T), and in 314 I said it should be you.

this is a spicy post if imaginality is scum

i don't know in what direction, but it's spicy

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:41 am

"oh look, here is a post with which i can explain why i totally didn't ic tanner solely because he townread me on day 1"

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:59 am

In post 1898, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1897, imaginality wrote:mistyped it as town
A thing you would never say as town

?

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:53 am

baltar, why do you think i should find the "luke bickered with me a lot but barely spoke to imaginality" argument convincing?

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:58 am

every time i see that aristeia is online, i imagine she's yelling at me in the dead thread for being a dumbass x_x

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:37 am

In post 1920, RH9 wrote:If Baltar is scum, then we won't need to deal with the Wall.

?

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:03 pm

none of what you just said is wrong, but like... luke accelerated his own flip. knowing that we're gonna look back at his associates. and knowing they're good with you and bad with imaginality. why shouldn't i be getting worried here that you got sick of my indecision and told him to initiate flipping the keep first (like, he first started talking how he's gonna vote) so you could use this argument?

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:07 pm

he was mudslinging only with you, though?

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:25 pm

In post 1929, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1926, Tanner wrote:he was mudslinging only with you, though?
Did you and him exchange some disagreements D1?

i mean, on day 1, back when it wasn't even known who was gonna go where. how does it make sense to categorize us as "players on the gate"?

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:48 pm

In post 1932, VP Baltar wrote:Do you see what I'm saying about the game state and motivation for a risky Luke move?

i mean, i get it. like, i was thinking of a game where town was similarly on the brink of winning, and scum started panicking and doing weird gambits. and here i'm like, if i really am about to hammer baltar correctly, what's the scumteam doing? where's the urgency? and then i realize not only did luke commit the unalive, rh9 did the weird sudden vote thing, and i'm like hmMMM

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:49 pm

hammer gate correctly*, you get it

"but what if that's what he wants me to think tho?"

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:55 pm

In post 1935, RH9 wrote:You think that my reaction-vote has to do with me wanting to shield Baltar?

no, that it has something to do with you shielding imaginality. like, if you're scum here, and imaginality is scum, and you see me about to hammer imaginality, that's straight up game losing. you *have* to do something to ~shake things up a bit~.

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:03 pm

sure. maybe implo is the scum and that's why he wants to resolve the wall. maybe numberq is the scum and he's not reacting because he's not here. maybe baltar is scum so of course scum at the wall isn't panicking because why would they?

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:20 pm

okay, here's a thing that's genuinely been confusing the hell out of me this game. implo offered if i want to flip the wall first, in order to prove that he's town, and that the split was 1-1-1 pre-night. because that is a point in scum!baltar's favour (because why does scum!imaginality voluntarily walk into a 1v1 where the other two players proclaimed that they're good at being townie and townreading each other). but, when i asked him what's the point because he's currently saying vp is town, he said that he finds vp more townie, even with the above information calculated in. why would he then be offering to get flipped so that i have that information, if he deems it to not be *that* valuable?

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:35 pm

the question was not aimed at you >_>

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:37 pm

oh, EVERYONE just wants out huh. if i could get out of this game, i think i would have hammered like 3 years ago

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:38 pm

inb4 vp baltar decides to inform me that i *can* get out of i just hammered imaginality ahaha

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:40 pm

this was supposed to be a Serious Alt, why does it anyways devolve into shitposting

anyway, one of the reasons why i don't want a hammer yet is because the damn wall should be discussing things too. and numberq has been heavily not doing that. so i'm gonna pretend like i totally am not dying inside and that i'm calmly waiting for him to get back

good night

Tanner · Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:45 pm

I SAID GOOD NIGHT YOU SCUMFUCK

Tanner · Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:50 am

guess who's rereading the game AGAIN and taking actual physical notes while we wait until the nq situation gets resolved, yeah that's me

In post 451, Lukewarm wrote:Baltar has some weird interactions with Tanner, where he first says he doesn't care where he goes, but then makes multiple posts about being in the same game with Tanner. Not really sure how to feel about that. Definitly worse if Tanner is town

god, this is a meme post one way or another. picks me to be the ic, and then pre-writes a post where he says how he thinks i am scum, but if i happen to be town then this other person is scum (if i hear one more "see that is not theatre" from baltar i'm gonna lose it)

In post 560, Tanner wrote:
In post 558, Lukewarm wrote:Also, Baltar, you do realize that imaginality is only confirmed
town
from your POV, and not from tanner's, right?
luke and vp confirmed scum ggwp

this post is staring me in the fucking face lmfao

In post 589, imaginality wrote:Nah, after being on Pooky's scum team in Pokemon Mafia and watching him win a 1v1 against Milobird that went on for over a thousand posts, my scum side feels inspired and whenever I'm next scum I'll channel Pooky's spirit to win any 1v1 I'm in. Bring on the 1v1s!

this post Maybe makes my theory of "surely scum!imag doesn't voluntarily stay at the gate with the two of us fuckers if he has a choice" but it's difficult to say that without knowing how was scum actually attempting to balance the games, and also lol this post

In post 630, Aristeia wrote:I'm thinking the best ending would be if the scum between the two of you votes for me, and this causes the town player to panic vote the scum.

i really miss aristeia

page ~29 vp/luke is some top notch theatre if it is theatre. "ok luke, we're gonna distance this game. you're gonna be nitpicking everything i do, and i'm gonna ignore it and pretend i do not see until you awkwardly remind me about it for like the 4th time. and then i'm gonna elaborate on it and say that i wasn't thinking that hard about it". brilliant.

Tanner · Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:23 am

do you actually townread vp and you got scared i was gonna hammer him because of it or....?

Tanner · Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:36 am

maybe vp really is such an airhead he missed his partner trying to theatre with him after they agreed in the pt that they will theatre lol

In post 748, VP Baltar wrote:I don't think I said I town read imaginality, did I? My memory feels like he was a bit middle of the pack to me

i asked you how were your reads looking like from memory then, you never answered... kinda wish i pressed further at the time

In post 777, imaginality wrote:And as I mentioned in my wall, remember also VP was aiming for me, him, DArby at the Wall so if DArby is town I think DArby was the intended mislim for that mini game.

mmm. so from town!imag perspective, he would see scum!baltar proposing imag/baltar/darby. wouldn't it then follow that darby is town? like, this comes right after he calls my pre-flip flip read associate darby town case a waste of time because he didn't want darby with him and baltar. not because my logic of "scum would want a 2 town 1 scum" is incorrect.

also, my post on why darby slot is town was fucking brilliant and the fact that like 2/3rds of the game jumped on it to tell me it's nonsense should've been a sign it was good

at imag's wallpost 971, i forgot to eat dinner again, be back in a bit.

Tanner · Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:58 am

when can that be expected? we don't have much time left.

Tanner · Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:19 pm

it's past 1 am, and the past... 3 hours i have been doing literally anything i can to procrastinate this game. but, i've just noticed something... weird.

In post 777, imaginality wrote:And another quick thing. I wasn't in favour of DArby joining me and VP so that speculation about both me and VP wanting that was a big waste of time.
I proposed Toogeloo as the third in post 275 and then argued against DArby and for Tanner being the third in post 314. On the other hand VP initially proposed DArby as the third and only said 'maybe swap DArby for Tanner' so it's not like Tanner was his first pick for the third slot.

And as I mentioned in my wall, remember also VP was aiming for me, him, DArby at the Wall so if DArby is town I think DArby was the intended mislim for that mini game.

this was imag discussing my "both imag and vp wanted imag/vp/darby, we know there's 1 scum in imag/darby, therefore darby is probably town because scum wouldn't be buddying 2 of themselves together". imag dismissed my idea, but not because talk is cheap, because he did not want darby with the two of them.

now, town!imag would know that vp is scum, so even if he found my idea bad because imag didn't want darby there... shouldn't he still find darby town from it? because from his pov, he has scum!vp arranging a trip of vp/imag/darby. yet that's not really the conclusion.

In post 971, imaginality wrote:This seems very plausibly like buddies not wanting any connections between them. Note also that VP's proposed setup always had numberQ in a different game to him.
...
numberQ and Toogeloo both look very plausible as buddies. VP had both numberQ and Toogeloo at a separate location to himself so I don't think we can distinguish between them that way

due to these parts of the wall in 971, you can't argue that imaginality didn't believe in "scum!vp could be purposefully putting buddies together", since he used the arguments of "vp wanted these players at different locations than himself" as +scum points.

In post 1027, imaginality wrote:I'd also note here that VP first proposed me+him+DArby/Pav, Tanner was just listed as an alternative. And from a scum!VP perspective DArby/Pav is very much mislim bait if town. So if DArby/Pav is town, VP's first option was what he himself says is a 'way easier scenario' and his backup option was a player who he knows will town read him for being at the same location. Flipping Keep first will confirm if DArby/Pav is town or not.

in this post, imag once again talks about the fact that vp wanted a vp/imag/darby location. he even proposes to flip the keep first to see. but like, shouldn't the logical conclusion from town!imag's pov here be that vp was trying to put two townies with himself??

In post 1040, imaginality wrote:I feel surest about Ari being town and Luke has said he thinks Ari's town so if it's entirely my call I'd get Luke to vote Ari.
If we do the 'get the scummiest player to choose who to vote' thing I'd get Pav to choose between the other two.

because, imag sure did not advocate for voting pav in the keep.

like, i know i might be confbiasing here, but this kind of feels like scum who was, at the same time, using the arguments "vp didn't want to go to the same location as these players" to be +scum points, while somehow never making the connection that "vp wanted to go to the same location as this player" to be a +town point. there were like, at least 2 opportunities for that connection to be made. yet it wasn't made. because town!pav was supposed to be the "toss this yeetbaity slot at the keep, nobody is ever going to be voting him lmao" townie?

Tanner · Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:27 pm

oh would you look at that. i post a new reason why imag might be scum, and it takes baltar... 5 minutes to show up. when i'm going through the thread by myself? when other players are doing analysis? nowhere to be seen.

Tanner · Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:49 pm

this is like... 3rd? 4th? day in a row i am up well into the early morning hours, staring at open 840 - guardians of the fortress [day 2] on mafiascum dot net

Tanner · Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:10 pm

In post 1227, Aristeia wrote:I know

he's reached a level of play so horribly inconsistent that I'm thinking it only comes from town talking out of their ass.

my first thought was "what if this is scum trying to use tstbs on their buddy to get me to hammer wrong at gate" before i realized the problem with that argument, my brain is completely fried

Tanner · Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:19 pm

at some point is not now

this is my method of dealing with all of my life problems and it's turned out fine

Tanner · Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:23 pm

fucking hell i love that song

it's gotten to the point where this is some vile shit if you're scum here lmfao

Tanner · Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:07 pm

In post 2000, imaginality wrote:I don't see what's odd about that position?

it's not odd to think pav was scum - i think every townie thought that at some point.

my issue is that the language you're using in 971 about nq and toog seems to imply that they are +scum because vp (confirmed scum from your pov) did not want to be in the same game with them. which, if you were working on the assumption that scum would be trying to achieve a 1-1-1 split at the time, is a logical conclusion.

however, when you're faced with information that vp wanted an imag/vp/pav game, you don't bring up that, by the virtue of vp being scum and you being town, that makes pav town. by the same logic, it should. it doesn't matter that you wouldn't consider that to be a strong point - it's completely omitted from your view of the game.

and the issue is that the above is REALLY convenient if pav was moved to keep as the "obvscum" slot that was never getting voted.

Tanner · Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:36 am

guess who's been running errands the whole day so far, and is rereading this game whenever possible? also guess who legit started having nightmares about this game? this dumbfuck

In post 1282, imaginality wrote:I actually doubt Pav will flip town but, as I said, IF he does it's an additional point against VP (because of how it makes the D1 location set up a more obvious play compared to a sneakier pre-planned swap).

this part of the post specifically commits the sin i talked about last night. it's actively calling pav scum, and making the connection how a pav townflip makes vp looks worse... while at the same time still not acknowledging how pav looks better if vp is scum, which from his pov etc you know what i mean

i'm up until the game 1 resolution, which means 15 pages left for when i get home

can the peeps at the wall tell me what they think about this argument i've been putting forward last night and now, k thx

Tanner · Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:18 am

sooooo... is anyone gonna acknowledge 2031?

"baltar stuff" is:
- 524 feeling fake
- 700 being not +town (it's not said that it's "+scum", just that it's "not +town", so i'm guessing it's nai)
- dumbtell being nai

"imaginality stuff" is:
- him being a hypocrite in 691 for accusing baltar for rushing the gate vote, while the first thing he did was vote (assuming this is +scum)

so, we have 1 scummy thing for each of them, and 2 extra nai things for baltar. how does he end up at:

In post 2031, numberQ wrote:I'm only up to the end of page 30 but I'm feeling scum vibes from Baltar much more than imaginality.

Tanner · Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:17 am

my strong opinion is that i want to resolve gate first so that if i fuck up, it's not game losing >_>

Tanner · Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:33 am

it is happening very soon, yeah, before i go sleep today. my irl has gotten unexpectedly more busy and anxiety-inducing for the next week, and i don't have the energy to be kept up by this game until 4 am every night.

i'm just. looking for that last piece of evidence to let me be able to hammer. i don't know what it is.

Tanner · Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:09 pm

i wonder if this would be easier if i hadn't gotten burned in literally every single yelo i have ever hammered. i have no clue how some people actually enjoy this.

Tanner · Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:14 pm

the amount of ate you've spewed in the last ~72 hours is pure evil. and i'm not even prefacing it with "if you're scum"

Tanner · Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:07 pm

both vp's reads and emotional responses check out with what i know of town!him. if he's scum, i'm nothing but impressed.

imaginality didn't play bad as either alignment. what i called out about his reading of pav slot is very unlucky if he's town, but it just fits the scum mindset of sending pav on the keep to die.

VOTE: imaginality