In post 1260, acryon wrote:Ok, but your argument on this is all theoretical, especially considering the outcome. Sure, people were
interested
in a lynch over a NL for the sake of it, but we never even got very close to a real lynch.
Oh really?
Mathdino
was also voting Iconeum at a point--that's 4/7 needed.
Beefster was also voting Iconeum at a point--
...that's 5/7 needed.
BuJaber
voted for Iconeum, even if it's not showed on the votecount.
That's 6/7 needed.
Iconeum, admittedly out of frustration, self-voted. If he had kept that, that'd have been 7/7 right then and there.
We got very fucking close to a real lynch.
People keep on claiming, "Why gladiate Iconeum knowing that Iconeum wouldn't have been lynched?"
...Except Iconeum came DANGEROUSLY FUCKING CLOSE to being lynched.
Yes those votes materialized at different times, such that Iconeum never surpassed L-2, but that was largely because I was raising hell telling people not to lynch him.
The fact of the matter is we DID get close to a lynch. So my argument is NOT hypothetical. To reiterate:
In post 1036, Carrot and Stick wrote: In post 990, acryon wrote: In post 958, Carrot and Stick wrote:Why gladiate players who can be mislynched without the gladiate? Answer me that question. Why would you, if you were scum, gladiate players who you know can be lynched without using the gladiate on them?
That is wasting the gladiate. Because players who can be mislynched without the gladiate...can be mislynched without using the gladiate. And thus should be left for later.
Except that the ability of town to alternatively vote for a NL makes most of this invalid. And the number of people supporting a NL
in the face of the theory and possible scumreads you mentioned
is evidence that the rest of your argument along this line is nonsense.
Except no not really.
Even assuming you did in fact know it was possible, you would not necessarily think that possible = assured. I laid out precisely why people would be willing to mislynch Iconeum/Mathdino post-gladiate when unwilling to do so pre-gladiate and unless you can counter THAT point my argument stands. We did eventually no-lynch, sure, yes...but we did so only after I fought for it and advocated for it and gave good reasons for it. For every post you can quote of a player supporting a no-lynch, I can quote at least an equal number of posts from players stating they'd be willing to if not outright PREFERRING we lynch. And no matter how much you try to ignore those posts, the fact that they exist backs my argument up.
In post 1260, acryon wrote:And in what world does scum choose to gladiate two players that would be difficult to get people to come to consensus on instead of ensuring a lynch by picking at least 1 player with a lot of heat?
In a world where that fucking consensus ACTUALLY CAME DANGEROUSLY CLOSE TO FORMING. That being, this world. You are treating the lack of a lynch D1 as evidence that it was a given we'd no-lynch.
The simple fact is we almost mislynched Iconeum.
Instead, Iconeum was the scum's fucking strongman nightkill.
Scum fucking STRONGMAN NIGHTKILLED.
The player who CAME DANGEROUSLY CLOSE TO BEING MISLYNCHED.
Difficult != impossible, by the way. Consensus came oh so dangerously close to mislynching Iconeum--thereby giving scum all the justification in the world for forcing a gladiate onto him.
In post 1260, acryon wrote:Ok sure, but there are presumably a million ways to gladiate as scum that can produce a better outcome than just not lynching scum.
Yes, but the question isn't "what is what I, personally, think the best usage of the role as scum is". The question is "what acryon, personally, would think the best usage of the role as scum is".
And the best possible usage of the role is to one, immediately avert the scum lynch (first priority), and then two, as the afterthought, achieve a town mislynch on the two players most threatening as seen from your perspective to the scumteam, who had the highest chances of being mislynched post-gladiate.
Mathdino was an obvious choice because thanks to me his townread had tanked.
Iconeum was an obvious choice because thanks to another town player (was it Mathdino, InfernoBrafin, the worst, or BuJaber?), his status as a universal townread was called into question.
This made both plausible mislynches. And it didn't matter who got mislynched. Fuck, scum could've been surprised it was Iconeum people voted for and expected it to be Mathdino.
My point, then, more or less, is a matter of scum objectives. The first objective is to not be lynched; you achieved this. The second objective is to get a mislynch; Mathdino made obvious sense and Iconeum went from near-universal-townread to almost-mislynched so that was another smart, pro-scum choice.
If acryon were town, this would be accompanied by an extensive explanation as to the why.
In post 1260, acryon wrote:I don't understand where people are getting the "this is scum A50" from. Haven't played with the slot enough, but not giving much of a further explanation isn't helpful in helping anyone understand that gutread.
This is scum defending scum.
For the record, that entire paragraph is filled to the brim with scum, it's just these are the most egregious parts.
