Mini 1993 - Earthbound Mafia: Giygas' Curse - GAME OVER

[Carrot and Stick]

well, that's a mighty convenient claim.

Why yes. Yes, it is.

Cuz if you're town, acryon and NM defending you as scum makes more sense than both of them throwing all their eggs into one basic to try and save a scum buddy.

I fail to see how. While it is true the defense is scum regardless of Almost50's alignment (just with a different driving motivation behind it), the simple fact is that as scum they have more reason to defend their scumbuddy than they do to defend a player they can just let be mislynched guilt-free.

If you think about it--acryon and Not_Mafia joining the Almost50 wagon gets Almost50 lynched. (We had 4/6 votes.) If they were scum, they get away with this because it is a stance they can get away with having held. Thus, the fact that they are scum and yet

didn't

hop on raises the question as to why.

[Mathdino]

Prove it. Give links to games where I was actually lynched a majority of town support. I know I do strike some players as scummy by nature, but to say town would want to lynch me needs some substantiating, because it's always 1 or 2 townies at most (or it could be more in large sized games like SU2).

It's never literally me though.

If you can admit N_M is heavily playing his scumgame right now, wanna wagon him instead?

@mastina: Your arguments on acryon are a bit too diluted to be convincing, sorry.
The heavily bolded section is basically "acryon is scum by his own logic and incriminated himself" which you also literally used on me 3 times this game.

[Beefster]

Scum A50 --> Town Kthxbye
We can be almost certain of this because this is simply a bad bus and would backfire if SvS.

Town A50 --> Town Kthxbye
If A50's town, then he must actually be a commuter. This explains Kthxbye's "No result" and clears him.

Either way, Kthxbye has to be town.

UNVOTE:

@Not_Mafia: this is why Kthxbye is town

[Carrot and Stick]

Acutally, question: If you are a commuter, why was your plan better than insta claiming? commuters simply can't ever die (unless scum have an RB in which case I don't know which happens first?).

Also, if you're a commuter, why the fuck did you try and discount my claim at ANY point? I claim follower and as a commuter, you'd know full well it's more than likely a true claim given my result instead of a scum fake claim yet you vote me and try to throw doubt about my claim. At least I think this happened, I will review in a bit as a lot of people said a lot of things about my claim...

It's because he's scum.

If he were town, then he'd have no qualms with claiming. (He was NEVER getting nightkilled this game ever no matter what, not with his absolutely shitty content and the scumreads there, something he'd be aware of if he was town.)

If he were town, then he'd know your claim was legitimate and not try to discredit it yet alone vote it.

Almost50 actively tried to fucking lynch you.
In spite of knowing from his role that you were telling the truth.

That does not fit as town.
That fits as scum, given the circumstances.

[Carrot and Stick]

CS/Dino, what do you think of the claim? Help me out here.

It honestly holds little relevance. It's probably at least partially true if nothing else, that his role has a commute aspect to it used last night. But it doesn't affect anything. He's still scum for how he treated the 'guilty'.

[Kthxbye]

well, that's a mighty convenient claim.

Why yes. Yes, it is.

Cuz if you're town, acryon and NM defending you as scum makes more sense than both of them throwing all their eggs into one basic to try and save a scum buddy.

I fail to see how. While it is true the defense is scum regardless of Almost50's alignment (just with a different driving motivation behind it), the simple fact is that as scum they have more reason to defend their scumbuddy than they do to defend a player they can just let be mislynched guilt-free.

If you think about it--acryon and Not_Mafia joining the Almost50 wagon gets Almost50 lynched. (We had 4/6 votes.) If they were scum, they get away with this because it is a stance they can get away with having held. Thus, the fact that they are scum and yet

didn't

hop on raises the question as to why.

It's the all eggs in one basket thing. I can see your point BUT they could have also not taken to his defense while at the same time waited out the MOD responses to questions before going after me. I'm the one that called for the 1v1, a scum partner could have taken that opportunity to look like rational town considering all options instead of defending A50 while at the same time going hard after me. It's thin, but no thinner than them both going hard core defense so as to save a scum buddy.

[Carrot and Stick]

Do tell because to my recollection you never got over half way to the lynch.

He's at 4 votes right now

So he did.

kthxbye, however, got five, and was a more universal nullscumread prior to the guilty.

Which is easier?

Voting for the player who is null at WORST to most players and yet has a fair number defending him...
...Or voting for the player who is null at BEST to most players and has a significant number condemning him?

...My point exactly.

I've been trying high and low, left and right to convince you that I was telling the truth and your result is still accurate.

^{[citation needed]}

A50: Why did you leave your vote on me after I claimed and you fully believed I was what I claimed (according to your posts after my claim)?

A very good question, indeed!

[Kthxbye]

@MOD: will we not be getting answers the the questions surrounding my role in thread? Would it more appropriate for me to PM you to clarify my role?

Quote your questions and I will respond to them.

@Mod: What result would a hypothetical Follower receive in the following situations:

A. The Follower is successfully roleblocked.
B. The target does nothing.
C. The target uses, for example, a rolecop ability and also makes a factional kill.
D. The target solely uses a rolecop ability.
E. The target solely makes a factional kill.
F. The target is a ninja and makes a factional kill.

@TW: I don't think anyone's a Lyncher here.

Then fucking get on with it and watch the flip.

And I swear, if the floundering gets A50 of the hook tomorrow... just surrender the game.

MOD: is the result of the follower ability different between seeing no action taken and having the follower ability role blocked. If so, can you give each type of result?

@MOD: I'd also like to add the question: If a follower targets a commuter, what is the order in which results are solved? Does commuter commute and is thus not targeted by follower or does the follower watch the commuter commute and get the result of the type of ability used?

[Kthxbye]

@CS: I, and likely many others, see your point and your case on A50 despite claim. That said, what scum role does he have that is both powerful enough to be in this game with all the power has claimed to have that would make him invisible to me like commuter or make him take no action last night while at the same time openly claiming he did take an action? Anything other than the unlikely Strongman+Ninja? Let's slow down a tad and think this through. Don't go all tunnely like NM

[Mathdino]

dude it's honestly probably not_mafia

[Carrot and Stick]

Dino has a way of making things look cool and getting things going his way

Now whose scumgame does this also describe?

Scum!tina sometimes deliberately takes 2 steps back and pretends to be busy catching up

Nope! Never have, never will. I read things chronologically. That this just so happens to be more useful to my scumgame is a side-effect. It's more useful to said scumgame, sure, but it comes from both alignments equally.

Scum!tina likes to brag about how she is invincible as scum

Why yes, yes I do, as I said myself. However...Whatever happened to these?

However, so far I haven't seen a sign of Scum!Mastina. There's at least one scumtell of hers that I am very well aware of, and that doesn't seem to exist in here.

In other words, if I told you about the one "strong" tell I have on Mastina I will no longer be able to get a read on her in the future.

But sure, you may want to claim you know of all your tells, and -in fact- the weaker one is starting to show in her, but not the "conclusive" one.

Mastina claims she doesn't get shot on N1 all that often, but I think the most recent game we played together where she was Town was DoY and

she was in a 3-headed hydra

and they did get shot on N1

Yeah that's the thing. It was a 3-headed hydra...but not just ANY 3-headed hydra.
A hydra of mastina, Ginngie, and NACHOMAMMA. Any one of us would be good together. All three? THAT is what made the nightkill.

Also this is false; Almost50 played with me far, far, FAR more recently than that when I was a hydra--in Magical Girls Mafia II, he even imprisoned me for a full day phase because he thought I was scum (I wasn't), but I never got nightkilled that game. That was a hydra with Ginngie and I, two of the three heads of the prior hydra. (Incidentally, Ginngie did nothing that game like Assembler is doing this game. Oh and by the way. People made the very same accusation against me that game. "The Brain and Pinky is scum because mastina is playing essentially solo without Ginngie". Nope!)

[Carrot and Stick]

acryon used his role poorly
kthnxbye messed up a claim
They're not the same at all

You stating this a million times will not make it any more true than the first time.

The "messed up claim" has been explained multiple times, a fact you continuously ignore. Said claim is not, in fact, fucked up; it is internally consistent with reasonable conclusions and knowledge based on available facts and information.

You've failed to demonstrate why kthx's "messed up claim" came from scum, because every 'contradiction' you pointed out isn't actually a contradiction and when you remove those from your case you are left with...no case because that was it.

You've failed to demonstrate why acryon's usage of the role made sense as coming from poor town.

You've also failed to demonstrate why acryon's usage of the role doesn't make sense as scum, in spite of multiple people having shown why it does.

[Carrot and Stick]

Scum!tina has up her sleeves I have to admit.

Which is all the proof in the world that this isn't scumastina because when scumastina is in a game there is no ambiguity about what tricks she has; she literally tells you.

What does A50's claim change about kthnxbye and how he handled the claim? Just because his result lines up with A50's claim doesn't change how his jump to A50 making the NK made no sense and how he evaded multiple questions about it.

Stating it makes no sense and that he evaded questions won't change the fact that he answered said questions promptly and immediately (and thus that you're lying and full of shit) and that his answers were reasonable, logical, and internally consistent even if based around incomplete information. Not having all the answers isn't proof he's scum; it's actually the opposite, proof he's town.

Unfortunately, I've not played with A50.

I have.
Rather extensively; we've probably played like a dozen or so games together if not more.

Mathdino has.

Both of us say much the same thing, and have laid out why even without the experience we have with him (which should in of itself be enough), we think he is scum off of this game's actions--that should tell you something.

The thing that I can't wrap my head around is my result and a scum role that would give me that result that would be powerful enough in a PR madness game.

Did you know that Mafia Ascetic is considered to be even stronger a scum role than Mafia Godfather? Guarantees investigatives fails, guarantees roleblocks fail, and can easily fakeclaim commuter because really, who's going to know the difference? A nonexistent vig?

[Almost50]

@Mastina (and all): You know, I thought of linking you some of my town games where I deliberately lay low at the start of the game, but I cane across a gem U think I want to share.

The following quote was written by non-other than the queen herself. Yes. Mastina wrote this about me in Steven Universe 2

And I quote:

But as town, it's the other way around: Almost50 is of the mindset that the longer he lives as town, the more able he is to fuck the scum over. So he aims to be chaotic, confusing, even a bit scummy, starting off weak, when he's not so sure in his footing. He plans, he has ideas, but doesn't quite know what will work yet, what gambit to pull, what traps to lay. He'll still gamble for the hope of that later payoff, but he doesn't need it; as the game progresses, he gets stronger pushes, more energy, more focus, and yes, more paranoid, more stubborn, and more involved. So he's town.

(post #3381, 4th paragraph.)

So, "who lays low?" here vs "the longer he lives as town, the more able he is to fuck the scum over" doesn't compute. Also "So he aims to be chaotic, confusing, even a bit scummy, starting off weak, when he's not so sure in his footing." but she believes I'm SCUM here is a no go. Finally, "He plans, he has ideas, but doesn't quite know what will work yet, what gambit to pull, what traps to lay." and she thinks this gambit is no gambit and is in fact a scum move.

What more can I say to show you Mastina's only outing parts of my meta (that she is well familiar with) that serves her purpose of pushing for my lynch, while -apparently- omitting whatever points to this being my Town play in closed setups (where gambits and tricks are much more an option).

Now check paragraph #3 where she states

"As scum, Almost50 starts out strong, in the open, establishing his presence, and then slowly sinks into the background where he safely mucks about and does what he pleases, because nobody's taking a look at him: he made them think he was town, and then he stayed just long enough in the background where they never bothered to reassess the idea."

Would you say I started off strong here? Would you say I established my presence and then sank into the background? Or would you think I started off weak and stayed weak until I had to give away my hand???

I mean, this all BS doesn't prove anything for those who want to SR me, but it's something to ponder on for those who want to see how Mastina's being overly manipulative with her narrative of my meta in this here game.

I have a wiki page. It's not being updated regularly and certainly isn't all that neat, but still you can find some of my town games and some of my scum ones. Go check some and see if my play here is more like my t9own or my scum play.

I personally always advise AGAINST trying to meta me, because I do things differently every time, even given the same situation, but Mastina trying to use parts of my meta she knows well are Town indicative as scum leads to case me, and neglecting parts that would lead people to think twice before they suspect my play here is my proof she is scum in this game.

So, if you are unfamiliar with my meta and you have some time to read, please go do some reading of any of the games I've listed on my wiki.

[Almost50]

That was a response to this BS, btw.

Yeah bullshit.

You know who lays low?

Scum do.

You know who DOESN'T lay low?

Players who are actually any fucking important role.

[Not_Mafia]

mastin even kthnxbye will tell you he didn't answer certain things immediately, I actually have a tentative townread on him now

[Kthxbye]

Did you know that Mafia Ascetic is considered to be even stronger a scum role than Mafia Godfather? Guarantees investigatives fails, guarantees roleblocks fail, and can easily fakeclaim commuter because really, who's going to know the difference? A nonexistent vig?

I did not know about that role. There are a multitude of rolls I do no know.

[Carrot and Stick]

ANMs tunnel vision always this spectacular?

Nope! This is more indicative of his scumgame than his towngame.

any links to games that show this? If yes, then I'd suggest an NM lynch right here and now. Being tired of his shit play isn't good enough a reason to lynch him, but showing meta suggesting it certainly is.

If I may, I'd prefer to defer to Mathdino on this. I do have my own Not_Mafia experience which I can show (e.g. scum in Kingdom Hearts, town in Mod is Mafia), but in this case I actually think Mathdino can write a more definitive case on the subject. I'll do it if he doesn't, but his version I guarantee you would be better than mine.

[Almost50]

If you think about it--acryon and Not_Mafia joining the Almost50 wagon gets Almost50 lynched. (We had 4/6 votes.)

And now she's mixing time stamps. This IS true, but you had before said I never got more than half the lynch threshold. I only had 4 votes when YOU voted me, and it was well after it was outed the proposed guilty wasn't a guilty at all.

[Mathdino]

You didn't start off weak, A50.

You started off with a bang looking good, and even claimed that you expected my protection. You seemed to expect the NK enough to commute last night.

[Carrot and Stick]

Prove it. Give links to games where I was actually lynched a majority of town support. I know I do strike some players as scummy by nature, but to say town would want to lynch me needs some substantiating, because it's always 1 or 2 townies at most (or it could be more in large sized games like SU2).

It's not you specifically in this case.

It's guilties and how they are handled/treated.

In a game with a guilty.

The outcome is obvious.

Scum (ESPECIALLY SCUM WHICH KNOW THE GUILTY IS A FALSE GUILTY!) try to wiggle out of it--thus, the guilty is hard to lynch.
Town are voted BY the scum (ESPECIALLY SCUM WHICH KNOW THE GUILTY IS NOT A REAL GUILTY)--thus, are much easier to lynch.
Do you dispute these?

Because these seem fairly self-explanatory.

Scum, especially when they know the guilty isn't a real guilty, try to not let their scumbuddy get lynched if at all possible. Thus, the wagon has trouble gaining momentum.
Scum, especially when they know the guilty isn't a real guilty, will be all too happy to let town mislynch a player and frame a different town player. You yourself in the post where you unvoted kthx put a note along these lines in the spoiler.
Town, when they think that a scum player is town (because scum have an easier time looking town than town do), are hesitant to follow through on the guilty.
Town, when they think that a town player is scum, are all too happy to vote the guilty.

[Almost50]

It's never literally me though.

If you can admit N_M is heavily playing his scumgame right now, wanna wagon him instead?

Only once before, and you were the JESTER!

As for a push on N_M, I never ever saw a difference between his Town and Scum games, and YOU KNOW THAT. I even TR'd and defended him hard in the game you modded, so asking me to "admit he's heavily playing his scumgame" is illogical because I don't know what how to differentiate his scum play from his town play.

You're also forgetting that I don't trust you here in the first place, so I obviously won't be sheeping you on faith.

You come vote Mastina, and if she flips Town (and she won't) we can lynch N_M tomorrow. He is not a higher priority than her.

[Carrot and Stick]

Mastina are you writing this as though A50 actually has a guilty on him or on the basis that the result is irrelevant and he's scum anyway?

Yes?

I'm writing it as though Almost50 had a guilty on him (past tense, not present), but the result of the guilty is irrelevant because he is scum anyway.

[Almost50]

If he were town, then he'd have no qualms with claiming. (He was NEVER getting nightkilled this game ever no matter what, not with his absolutely shitty content and the scumreads there, something he'd be aware of if he was town.)

Again, she's faking obtuse. I was not (and never am) worried about actually being NK'd. As a Commuter though I have to try to hide my role in hopes that I DO get shot at. That is the whole point. Lure scum into an NK that is going to FAIL. That is the BEST way to play commuter IMHO.

[Carrot and Stick]

The heavily bolded section is basically "acryon is scum by his own logic and incriminated himself" which you also literally used on me 3 times this game.

You're not acryon.
A metric which didn't apply to you and which you more or less said "this might work if it wasn't me you were talking about on a different player"...
...Can and does work on different players.

That I was wrong about it on you does not make me wrong about it on acryon, least of all because of the nature of the content.
Look at it for yourself.

It's not a minor thing.

It's a major fucking thing.

acryon quite literally tried to frame the narrative of kthx being scum for the thing that he himself did on D1.