Sid Meier's Civilization 5 UPick Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Titus]

[7] brassherald: Nero Cain (1), Shaziro (1), Chara (1), Jodaxq (1), ranmaru (1), ActionDan (1), Gamma Emerald (1)
[3] Kokichi Oma: Kokichi Oma (1), Dunkerdoodles (1), Joey_ (1)
[3] Elbirn: Elbirn (1), Bujaber (1), Varsoon (1)
[3] Titus: Titus (1), marshy (1), pidgey (1)

Of the wagons with 3 delegates, I prefer Titus.


not voting: Kiana Kaslana (1), brassherald (1), Creature (1).

Both Brass and Gamma should vote Titus putting her at 5. Kiana can vote Brass meaning Creatures lone vote won't affect anything and thus we should get our resolutions by then.

Its already getting close to 50 pages. Let's get this show on the road.

Adjusted for accuracy. Creature and Kiana left, but seeing as how Kiana is catching up and may not be back until tomorrow/Friday and Creature is doing whatever he was doing.

HEAL: for host = Titus

Kiana should also cast a delegate for Titus I believe.

Gamma already cast his vote, and I don't know what Creature is doing.

Thank you.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Ran is just bad town or, if Varsoons multiball spec/calculated slip turns out to be right then he's maybe Not Chara scum. Of that list I feel like Chara is the best flip though. I still feel like Gamma sheeping your logic was a scummy parrot. Him getting all ticked off is something that I could maybe see from town but I could also see it from scum...so I guess its null. *shrugz*

Don't really like Klazam stopping in the middle of hi catchup.

You know what just fuck you. You're not actually listening to my logic, you're just pushing the same line of bullshit over and over.
VOTE: Nero Cain
Thunderdome time.

[Titus]

Marshy is rather new.

>looks at my joindate
>looks at titus

these kids never show respect

Saw this when trying to reread you for Ranmaru. Sorry you feel that way. You're new to me though. I do like your cards on the table style and initiative on WC but would love more iniative on leading wagons. Yet this seems to be a problem everywhere.

[Klazam]

A50 trying to pull the wagon away from me to creature is eh.

I like titus' points on Kokichi. I think they makes sense to me.

Do you not agree that Creature is obvscum?

Im ambivalent on the lurking thing- I dont really know his meta, Ill defer to these who actually do. Although, I can obviously see that creature is presenting a problem here.

--

Address why you waited so long to host-nom brass, please. That's the crux of my scumread on you.

Me uncomfortable = gut bad feels, but not very easy to quantify.

[Titus]

I think Ran is just bad town or, if Varsoons multiball spec/calculated slip turns out to be right then he's maybe Not Chara scum. Of that list I feel like Chara is the best flip though. I still feel like Gamma sheeping your logic was a scummy parrot. Him getting all ticked off is something that I could maybe see from town but I could also see it from scum...so I guess its null. *shrugz*

Don't really like Klazam stopping in the middle of hi catchup.

You know what just fuck you. You're not actually listening to my logic, you're just pushing the same line of bullshit over and over.
VOTE: Nero Cain
Thunderdome time.

I don't want a thunderdome. If you think he's scum, pepper him with reads questions instead. Get him to reveal his teammates via his reads or actions.

[BuJaber]

I picked the most polarizing people I remember.. list maybe missing one or two

Polarizing =/= scum pal

Right wow okay you caught me I just wanted to use a fancy word that I don't know the meaning of.

Sigh


I picked those people because they are not widely townread. Being widely townread is

generally speaking

a sign that someone is town. So all of these people have a reasonable chance of being scum considering some people have already scumread them.

Polarizing means some people have townread them, some have scumread them. There are clear opinions expressed about them. Not that much fence sitting. That means when they flip gives us more to go on when we analyze the people who stated reads on them. Of course fence-sitting can also be AI. But the point was to compare those lynches to creature. Anyone who has played with him thinks he's scum. For the rest of us we don't know anything. Apart from the host vote stalling he's a nullread for anyone who doesn't know his meta. We are going purely with what everyone else is saying. So when he flips whatever he will flip what does that tell us? If people know his meta this well there is no way scum!A50 does this just to lynch town creature, and everyone else who's on the wagon would be equally guilty. And if he flips scum, everyone including any bussers equally had a part in lynching him and they all had the same reason so we can't deduce anything from that.

Obviously I know the benefits to town. I am not suggesting his lynch is bad. I am suggesting there are better lynches. You can play the game okay and win. You can play the game well and win more often. IMO lynching creature is the okay play not the optimal play.

[Joey_]

I guess *trust* is the more accurate word.

To be fair you claimed scum twice this game which will make you hard to trust for ppl

[Joey_]

Joey: i missed you saying Nero was obvtown, then. can you go into it or did you already?

Hi and no i have'nt! Basically i will repeat my nero stance from another game that recently finished : His scum and town play is day and night for me, he's an easy read thats all and i haven't been wrong on the guy in the past 2 games and i'm not wrong this game either.
He's

really really really

his textbook town self and in the slight offset that he's a dirty terrorist i will never reclaim that i can read the guy

[pidgey]

@Kokichi Oka, I have felt a general pattern of you trying to push for control and dominance early, even against confirmed town. I am trying to understand your objective in this and what you are seeking to do. It feels rather desperate, which seems odd for any day 1. What is it you were hoping to achieve day 1?

Like kokichi already told, this is kind of a weird question but I see your point too. It just seems a little fillerish but you have posted quite a lot so it might just be a little nitpick at you, Tidus.

So people that know creature seem to be pretty sure about his meta being scummy because he is posting elsewhere. While kind of a dickish way to get a read, I can get on board for a creature lynch. Still prefer Klazam at the moment, the way that slot defended itself was NOT GOOD to me in the slightest.

Marshy is so hard for me to read, seems more like a lazy player. Not sure if he can be lazy scum or lazy town, so I will iso him later to see what I can find.

Kinda still skimming the thread on page 39 so pls forgive me!!! Have not found my wallet, mad as hell at myself.

Pedit- A lot of people on nero too, let me read up on that.

[Joey_]

@Baju something : How good of a player are you ? Whats your experience in mafia games etc, you look like a very confident slot for being this new to the genre. Could you rate you town and scum play on 10 ?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Ran is just bad town or, if Varsoons multiball spec/calculated slip turns out to be right then he's maybe Not Chara scum. Of that list I feel like Chara is the best flip though. I still feel like Gamma sheeping your logic was a scummy parrot. Him getting all ticked off is something that I could maybe see from town but I could also see it from scum...so I guess its null. *shrugz*

Don't really like Klazam stopping in the middle of hi catchup.

You know what just fuck you. You're not actually listening to my logic, you're just pushing the same line of bullshit over and over.
VOTE: Nero Cain
Thunderdome time.

I don't want a thunderdome. If you think he's scum, pepper him with reads questions instead. Get him to reveal his teammates via his reads or actions.

I have been questioning him on his thoughts on me and it's clear he's not actually trying to read me

[Chara]

i agree somewhat, that the Creature lynch is not as informative as it could be. it's like lynching a cop guilty. i don't think anyone would be arguing for leaving a guilty alive. perhaps it's different for players like Titus who don't want to rely on meta or players who just don't know him.
i am reminded of the "town winrates go down when scum is lynched day 1" theory. it's interesting.

would still rather lynch essentially confirmed scum. seeing a scum role would be useful to tell us about the setup and remove a night factor. i've waited to lynch scum Creature before on the insistence of other players and it didn't really help anything because he doesn't post.
i guess leaving him alive would be fine if a vig shoots him.

[Gamma Emerald]

I picked the most polarizing people I remember.. list maybe missing one or two

Polarizing =/= scum pal

Right wow okay you caught me I just wanted to use a fancy word that I don't know the meaning of.

Sigh


I picked those people because they are not widely townread. Being widely townread is

generally speaking

a sign that someone is town. So all of these people have a reasonable chance of being scum considering some people have already scumread them.

Polarizing means some people have townread them, some have scumread them. There are clear opinions expressed about them. Not that much fence sitting. That means when they flip gives us more to go on when we analyze the people who stated reads on them. Of course fence-sitting can also be AI. But the point was to compare those lynches to creature. Anyone who has played with him thinks he's scum. For the rest of us we don't know anything. Apart from the host vote stalling he's a nullread for anyone who doesn't know his meta. We are going purely with what everyone else is saying. So when he flips whatever he will flip what does that tell us? If people know his meta this well there is no way scum!A50 does this just to lynch town creature, and everyone else who's on the wagon would be equally guilty. And if he flips scum, everyone including any bussers equally had a part in lynching him and they all had the same reason so we can't deduce anything from that.

Obviously I know the benefits to town. I am not suggesting his lynch is bad. I am suggesting there are better lynches. You can play the game okay and win. You can play the game well and win more often. IMO lynching creature is the okay play not the optimal play.

I guess this is fair. As far okay vs optimal I feel like Creature vs anyone else is like gambling a bit: do you take the safe bet or roll the dice on someone else?

[Joey_]

I've had this discussion so many times in real life to know that there are just 2 schools of thought.
We'll just agree to disagree on when is the best time to lynch creature, and why an 'info' lynch is better.

Also about this.. you should always that people fucking suck at mafia and that you may never achieve that "obvious scum" lynch down the road just because people are people and they rarely are coherent with their thoughts for the remaining of the game. More than half the player base are basically "coin flips" so while playing online and when are in a position where you can get scum lynched, there's very rarely a good reason not to (Even if i agree it can be optimal not too, but ppl aren't playing optimal in general)

[pidgey]

Actually you all should really follow me on the Klazam lynch, there's no way he is not scum. Seems to me that the wagon kinda fell of suddenly for no good reason? I dont really know about creature, im gonna iso him (and nero and marshy to get a good read on them) and you guys might as well be right about him being scum lord, but if he is town then isnt this a waste of a lynch? His dead would tell us nothing to be honest. He seems to have said nothing from what I gather is the case on him. From what I usually see, scum gets pressured into at least typing the minimal stuff from their scumbuddies. I dunno, this wagon feels weird.

[Gamma Emerald]

lol you don't even have to iso creature his posting frequency is enough to scumread him

[Chara]

looking at the number of players who plain don't know Creature's meta, i don't think the lynch is as uninformative as it's being made out to be, either.

[Titus]

i agree somewhat, that the Creature lynch is not as informative as it could be. it's like lynching a cop guilty. i don't think anyone would be arguing for leaving a guilty alive. perhaps it's different for players like Titus who don't want to rely on meta or players who just don't know him.
i am reminded of the "town winrates go down when scum is lynched day 1" theory. it's interesting.

would still rather lynch essentially confirmed scum. seeing a scum role would be useful to tell us about the setup and remove a night factor. i've waited to lynch scum Creature before on the insistence of other players and it didn't really help anything because he doesn't post.
i guess leaving him alive would be fine if a vig shoots him.

I don't get how people can interpret Creature this strong when other players are acting wierd. I get the feeling Creature is being sold as a lynch and may not be good. I don't know he's town and if that's what the majority decides so be it. But the confidence on this lynch feels snakeoily when people have real life as town too.

[Joey_]

i agree somewhat, that the Creature lynch is not as informative as it could be. it's like lynching a cop guilty. i don't think anyone would be arguing for leaving a guilty alive. perhaps it's different for players like Titus who don't want to rely on meta or players who just don't know him.
i am reminded of the "town winrates go down when scum is lynched day 1" theory. it's interesting.

would still rather lynch essentially confirmed scum. seeing a scum role would be useful to tell us about the setup and remove a night factor. i've waited to lynch scum Creature before on the insistence of other players and it didn't really help anything because he doesn't post.
i guess leaving him alive would be fine if a vig shoots him.

I don't get how people can interpret Creature this strong when other players are acting wierd. I get the feeling Creature is being sold as a lynch and may not be good. I don't know he's town and if that's what the majority decides so be it. But the confidence on this lynch feels snakeoily when people have real life as town too.

The guy's really obvious as town honestly and is normally an active and frequent poster. Someone also said that he's been active on others games so like, even for I who dislikes the read, he's scummy no?

[Chara]

i was taking real life into account, Titus. Creature is posting elsewhere. even when he's town and lurkish he still does something. as scum he basically does nothing at all.

[pidgey]

Just 2 questions about Creature for everyone who knows him:

1.- Would the size of this game affect his posting as town too? Or he always goes balls to the walls as town and lurker derp derp as scum?

2.- Is the amount of games he has played as town or scum considerable enough to warranty the meta read?

And yeah if he is scum we definitely lynch him, no way we let the slot survive even it its a "day 1 guilty"

[Gamma Emerald]

Just 2 questions about Creature for everyone who knows him:

1.- Would the size of this game affect his posting as town too? Or he always goes balls to the walls as town and lurker derp derp as scum?

2.- Is the amount of games he has played as town or scum considerable enough to warranty the meta read?

And yeah if he is scum we definitely lynch him, no way we let the slot survive even it its a "day 1 guilty"

1 I'm not sure of but I think he has been active in larges before, maybe it's time to go

very

deep, like the first time I saw him as scum deep
2 Yeah he's played sevveral games as both aligns at this point

[Chara]

1) not sure about size. i'm sure it affects his posting. a large wouldn't make him into a non-entity as town, though. even a Creature who can't keep up. it's not about activity, he can be active with fluff.

2) absolutely.

if he does

anything

within the next few days i'm not lynching him. that sounds silly but it's true.

[BuJaber]

@Baju something : How good of a player are you ? Whats your experience in mafia games etc, you look like a very confident slot for being this new to the genre. Could you rate you town and scum play on 10 ?

I have played maybe 2 games of real life mafia. That was something like 6 years ago. It was an introduction to the wonderful world of social deduction games.
I have played forum mafia for around 2-3 years. It was a lot less than on this site. This site is a goddamn heaven for someone like me.

For the past 2-3 years also I have played a looooooooot of other real life social deduction games. Resistance/Avalon, secret hitler, ultimate werewolf, spyfall, etc.

I'd say in forum mafia I'm pretty bad at scum. Haven't rolled it enough to really analyze my play based on results. Probably 4/10.
I like to think I'm a decent town player. Though that's where most strategy conflicts occur lol. I rarely find people who look at things the same way I do. Admittedly I tend to use WIFOM quite a bit but that's because of how I approach scumhunting. Don't want to get into it right now. Anyway maybe 8/10.
I like to analyze. I'm just not always good at getting people to townread me. Not that I should care as town, but it still is a flaw in some games when people don't vote with you because they can't trust you and you all end up losing.

I mean I'm a pretty confident guy but I've recently been telling myself to trust my reads more so there's a bit more confidence in my recent games than in the past. That came about because of a combination of a few games where I was right about my early reads and kind of just dropped them or trusted someone else because I didn't get support, and instances where lack of confidence and flip flopping got me scumread.

i agree somewhat, that the Creature lynch is not as informative as it could be. it's like lynching a cop guilty. i don't think anyone would be arguing for leaving a guilty alive. perhaps it's different for players like Titus who don't want to rely on meta or players who just don't know him.
i am reminded of the "town winrates go down when scum is lynched day 1" theory. it's interesting.

would still rather lynch essentially confirmed scum. seeing a scum role would be useful to tell us about the setup and remove a night factor. i've waited to lynch scum Creature before on the insistence of other players and it didn't really help anything because he doesn't post.
i guess leaving him alive would be fine if a vig shoots him.

I accept that people will disagree with me. What I don't accept is when people think my ideas are wrong but their reasons why aren't convincing or you can obviously tell they don't even read your arguments. Most of the time people just think you're stupid because they are too closed-minded to consider they could be wrong. Especially when they have a few wins to backup their 'strategy', they think that anecdotal evidence proves them right.

Sorry for going off the rails a little bit. I am writing while thinking about a real life friend who drives me nuts with his arguments every time.


-pedit: by all means I'm not going to oppose the town consensus, not when I've never played with the guy, but I'm going to make my objections known , if creature is the way to go, so be it.

[Chara]

i assume that means you can see i read your arguments and/or i am convincing? :>