Mini 1993 - Earthbound Mafia: Giygas' Curse - GAME OVER

[Carrot and Stick]

I want a scumflip before going after mastina.

And when literally any of acryon/Not_Mafia/Almost50 flip scum, you realize the time to go after me is never because while I do bus I don't powerfuckingbus my buddies into oblivion. (Well, I DO...but only in one specific situation--when I know the scumbuddies are of the caliber such that whoever survives has the caliber to carry the game. When I bussed Majiffy I knew he'd be able to use the cred to win the game; when I bussed Pine/Ginngie's hydra I knew they were strong enough to carry the game; when I bussed gerryoat, I knew he was strong enough to carry the game. Good luck finding a player I think is strong enough to carry the game in THIS game.)

I'm photo man, I'm a motion detector, I set up a camera outside someone's house to see if anyone visits or leaves, no one visited acryon last night and acryon took no action

Why in the fuck would you target acryon?!

He didn't, but it makes a nice fakeclaim to try and save his scumbuddy!

It clears acryon of having acted last night which softconfirms him town

Except acryon is a scumfuck, sooooooooooooooooooooooooo......

[Carrot and Stick]

He was likely to be targetted by town PRs though, motion detector is an incredibly weak role, results are so vague that outing them is anti-town, I was using it to inform my townreads, since anyone targetting was very likely to be town

Also, that's not how any version of Motion Detector works.
Motion Detector can on some occasions be what I call a Reporter. (Sees if the person uses an action but not what type or who they target.)
Motion Detector can on some occasions be what is also called a Voyeur Weak Version (Sees if the person is targeted by an action but not what type or who targeted them).
Motion Detector as defined by Normal rules is combining the two such that they are indistinguishable between one another.

He wouldn't know who the targeting players were; that's a Watcher.

So his logic for this action doesn't hold.

[Carrot and Stick]

This was after acryon's flavour claim. It has to be flavour related.

OR.
Not_Mafia is just a scumfuck who was defending his scumbuddy.

No flavor necessary.

[Carrot and Stick]

So what you are telling me is: You felt that he was some sort of protective role, so you said you had a gunsmith-esque quilty on him and tried to have him lynched as scum? And that's a a softclaim as a role cop ability? Help me out here. I'm just trying to understand why someone would use a softclaim to try and lynch what they are now saying they considered a protective role all along. Plus, why would you claim a gunsmith guilty as your softclaim when it's obvious that there was no way for you to get that claim, since there was no N0? What kind of softclaim uses impossible claims and is that indirect?

You answer your own question. The reason it worked as a softclaim is because it was apparent it couldn't be a realclaim. I couldn't be an actual gunsmith with an actual gunsmith guilty because it was D1. As a result, it was an effective softclaim for my powers. Also note that there's a difference between claimed role and town in that role != alignment so Mathdino claiming bodyguard does fuckall in terms of changing my read--my read changed for

other reasons

, ones entirely separate from that. Namely, Mathdino showed himself to not be scum, in a way which was not him attempting to show himself not to be scum. (Basically there was no deliberate effort to look town. Instead it just WAS town.)

Realistically, the scumteam could very viably be A50/N_M/Marangal. I don't believe acryon is scum with Not_Mafia.

Sorry, but you've got that backwards. Momrangal isn't scum with Not_Mafia; the viable scumteam is Almost50/Not_Mafia/acryon.

If Not_Mafia flips scum, the scumteam is probably M_M/mastina/acryon

Then help me happily "bus" my scumbuddies because I sure as fuck will lynch the fuck out of both of them.

[Carrot and Stick]

Mathdino is being emotional

You know I don't actually remember saying that but given me, I wouldn't actually be surprised if I did. Still. I went over this already. I have no regrets over the Mathdino push--why would I? It advanced the gamestate, and furthermore, it advanced the gamestate without a mislynch necessary. Mathdino got sorted as town. Universally town, without a doubt town. He went from that player there were a fair number of townreads on but a lot of paranoia about to in the aftermath universal townread no question about it.

What's more, beyond him having been sorted, the engagement, the dialog process, helped generate content outside of the mastina-Mathdino spew. The magic of talking isn't just in generating a read on the ones talking. (Incidentally that same magic which worked on Mathdino is something which I feel has begun to apply to Momrangal which is why my scumread there is all-but extinguished.) The magic of talking is also in looking at how others reacted in response to the talking.

Some players get spewed town from it.

Other players get spewed scum from it. (Not_Mafia, Almost50, and acryon, all in different ways.)

Of course. While all of the above is true. I admit that the main benefit is indeed a selfish one: me PERSONALLY having a right read there. In that before, Mathdino was a scumread. This was incorrect. Now he is a townread. That is correct. I can never be sorry for any process by which an incorrect read turns to a correct one. Not even a wall war. So while my points were wrong. I don't take them back. I don't regret making them. They were flawed, and I will learn from the flaws.

Similarly so for you if as I suspect you are in fact town. Just about everything I said about Mathdino equally applies to you. I can't be sorry for scumhunting, having been wrong, and then in the process of scumhunting, figuring out I was wrong and reversing it to being right.

THAT HAVING BEEN SAID.

Me and Mara are not synching Thus she must be scum (we never sync)

Yes we do. Profgessor Emotion wouldn't have been born otherwise. (For those not in the know, that's our hydra.) We do so often. And ALSO:

Mara is not working with me she must be scum
Maras plan with her role is more convenient as scum and she would never do that as town and thus is scum

I maintain all three of these points are valid concerns. They are, tentatively, wrong. But if one of my unholy trinity flipped town, you'd bet I'd be coming RIGHT square back to points like this, yes. If you are town they are wrong. I currently believe this to be the case. I also think them good points.

Oh and my favorite one is that I'm scum because I'm scum reading Buj.

Not quite. I mean. That point would in of itself be a potential scum indicator given that BuJaber is transparently town. But. It wasn't the scumread on BuJaber. Wrong-town is a thing. It was the reasons justifying the scumread on BuJaber. None of your points held true and I still maintain they don't.

but that plan doesn't come from scum

It can, actually.

Does it?

In this case, I'd say no!

So your read's almost assuredly right. Just...not for those reasons.

[Carrot and Stick]

too many people in this game have been reading based on charisma/skill rather than motivation
marangal has been bad town, which unfortunately is often indistinguishable from her towngame
but A50 is not bad town
N_M is not bad when he cares, and he clearly started caring when Kthx pulled the "guilty" (i wonder why)

This.
All of it.
(I mean I thought Momrangal's 'bad town' was scum, sure, yeah, but it's not.)

Add in acryon's motivation being transparently scum and you've got a slam-dunk succinct case for why the scumteam is Almost50, Not_Mafia, and acryon.

[Carrot and Stick]

Plus, the existence of a JOAT is basically confirmed. The powers are not.

They are by virtue of me having told you what they were and having also told you they were powers more convenient for scum to have. I mean I guess you could think my Doctor is something else I suppose (but really my D1 play/claim should make that evident enough that it's real), but I outright claimed the Roleblock and the Rolecop, both of which are >random scum powers with +EV greater for scum having the role than town having the role.

I don't exactly have much incentive to lie about those, do I? Especially since my rule above rules as scum is to NEVER claim something I cannot prove. Rolecop I can prove; Roleblock I can prove. The only power I can't is the Doctor protection, so. Powers are as close to confirmed as they can get. Another player with this role, sure, they could fake the powers I suppose, but for me it's pretty much a given that I'm not going to.

Works in the case that mastina and Beefster can stop each other from performing factional kills (and also on the basis that mastina and Beefster are not literally the scumteam).

My role PM doesn't specify but I see no reason why not.

I don't particularly think using the block while there is more than one scum alive is optimal usage, but I am willing to sign off on any plan and will go with whatever your final submitted plan is at the end of the day.

Is there a world where Mom and A50 are scum together?

In theory? Yes. In practice? Not particularly likely, no.

Mastina doesn't

lie that much

as scum? Surely you're not giving her any shred of towncred for potentially

lying

.

Actually, lying is a big fucking huge towntell of mine. My policy as scum is "the best lie is the truth". Humans are VERY good at picking up false narratives. So what I do is...tell a narrative which isn't actually false. This makes me look sincere, genuine, and make people townread me for looking like I mean it because I really do actually mean it. When the truth is on my side, it is advantageous.

...So when I DO lie. It's not with a scum agenda. It's with a town motivated perspective. Usually in the form of altering my claim. E.g. Neighbors-->Masons, Macho<-->Bulletproof, Doublevoter-->Voteless. I never lie regardless of my alignment about non-role factors because frankly that's unethical.

If you are even close to equally believing N_M and A50, shouldn't N_M be the lynch if you're between those two? A50's role is very very powerful for town if he's telling the truth (and we can just check him tonight).

Or do you just really believe N_M and not believe A50?

This is all the evidence you need for an Almost50 lynch btw. Not_Mafia is probably some weaker scum role which with massclaim having essentially happened is all-but-useless. Almost50 is probably...not. Alternatively, Almost50 exposed the whole scumteam and reveals town whereas Not_Mafia leaves things more ambiguous.

Is there a world where Mom and A50 are scum together?

I suppose I could see that. But actually if Momrangal is scum, I think it's less likely A50 is scum, because a lot of Momrangal's interactions with A50 feel like buddying.

This makes me feel a whole lot better about Momrangal since the implication here is that he's soft-pushing for a Momrangal lynch over Almost50, so.

[Carrot and Stick]

Occurs to me that you've never been around for one of my setup breaks.

Incidentally, this is what I trusted you to do.

So to reiterate--I will sign off on whatever the last plan you posted is.

If need be (that is, I don't finish catching up and there's a hammer, something always possible), I'll iso you to get to it if that's what it takes; you have my word I'll follow the most up to date plan whatever it may be, no excuses; if I don't, I get lynched, guaranteed.

[Carrot and Stick]

C&S said that Math was prob scum because they have a roleblocker role.

What is it with people and reading my posts wrong?

Never once said that.

In a world where Acryon is town, so is Not_Maf.

And in this world where acryon is scum, so too is Not_Mafia.

C&S's confbias is BAD in the first few days.

It's only bad when it leads to a mislynch! (I mean I'd say it's only bad when it's wrong, which you'd think is synonymous, but as previously indicated: I do not believe my Mathdino push was bad even though it was wrong, and that didn't lead to a mislynch which shows you why the two cannot be used interchangeably.)

by faking a guilty on them (and that guilty isn't even possible) and try and get them lynched?

And therein lies where you're getting hung up.
I never faked a guilty.

Reread with this understanding and it makes more sense.

[Carrot and Stick]

I'm not fucking policy lynching mastina (

a confirmed JOAT

with a claimed doc/roleblocker) for using a metaphor.

Remind me again how that was confirmed? I mean, we accepted the claim alright, but how was it mechanically confirmed?

Iconeum died Night 1! They were [/color]

Orange Kid, Town

Backup

JOAT

To say nothing of the fact that scumastina has told a lie about her role a grand total of one time--one time, in all her vast, endless scumgames. One time, and only one. In lylo. Years ago at that. (Ironically enough...I think the role I fakeclaimed WAS JOAT. But I used bog-standard town powers for the fakeclaim.) Oversoul's Mini Normal for the curious, whatever game number that is. (It mighta been wiped out by the rollback tho.)

BUT I DIGRESS.

Point being, I said I'm a JOAT, so that means that I am a JOAT. I said what my powers are, so that's what my powers are. You can believe I am scum with those powers easily enough because they are in fact scum powers to possess, but nonetheless, that doesn't change the fact that it being ME claiming the JOAT means that I am guaranteed to really be that exact JOAT.

@acryon: actually yeah that post is pretty lynchable tomorrow, good take

Nope! That post has come from me as town a number of times and never once from scumastina. I mean I'm aware of it so there's always a first time, but not this game. Being a fucking psychic about things like Mathdino being a protective and Iconeum being a backup to my role specifically? Still a hallmark of my towngame.

are we all good with the plans?

I am indeed, if it still holds.

[Carrot and Stick]

Found it btw. I started with a softclaim the day before lylo technically speaking.
The claim in question was indeed JOAT. With claimed powers of Doc/Watch/Track.
Incidentally, by sheer luck, my fakeclaim managed to perfectly slide in with

the actual real roles

in the game, in that my claim perfectly suited the roles/actions which really happened by pure happenstance. (I took a lucky guess, more or less.) One mistake and I'd have fucked up and gotten lynched.

(And yes. Games really WERE that short back then. Yes. My walling hasn't improved any.)

[Carrot and Stick]

games on MS used to not have deadlines at all, but then games stalled out, so mods implemented deadlines as a means of helping town

Not so! They implemented deadlines as a means of preventing game abandonment. The deadlines were actually if anything pro-scum. It's just that the pro-scum deadlines were better than pro-abandonment lack of deadline.

mastina is obviously not going to agree to being lynched on A50 townflip but whatever

I'd fight against a quicklynch, and would insist people not be morons and listen to my reads after I flip town, but no. Would deserve it, so wouldn't fight it. Just would fight it being done rapidly, and blindly ignoring me for the rest of the game just because of it.

[BuJaber]

I'm sorry I missed all the fun. Would have loved to triple vote acryon.

I think A50 should be given the chance to do the noble thing and self-hammer. The cat's out the bag.

Thank you all for not listening.

TW - check mom please

[BuJaber]

VOTE: A50

[BuJaber]

And we need one blocker to target NM please.

[BuJaber]

I am a compuslive visitor as MD correctly deduced so I can't holster; TW checking me wouldn't work right?

[Carrot and Stick]

It was certainly something that pinged me about her claim (note that she only claimed AFTER the fact).

Yes because asking Iconeum whether they are a backup to a specific role/backup to a JOAT to confirm your suspicions is a GREAT idea.

Silence was the only appropriate action.

Scumteam is C&S/Acryon/N_M.

Then help me fucking bus my scumbuddies; I will do so all too gladly.

A50 is repeated y evasive with Bu. Why I don't know.

Because you're reading him as the wrong fucking alignment.

Who has been pushing for MD to get the lynch all game? Who starts the wagon on Acryon finally rolling?

Literally the same person, so.

Who has tried unsuccessfully to discredit Ico and MD beforehand?

Mathdino yes, but Iconeum no. Iconeum was my strongest fucking townread.

Has contributed little but when they have has been in support of C&S all the way?

Yeah, if by 'in support' you mean of

wagoning me

.

Scum!C&S, scum!acryon, and scum!N_M all have one goal: to take out the most powerful scumthreat and the biggest boon to town: Ico and MD.

A fine theory! It matches acryon to a T and also Not_Mafia.

Too bad it doesn't match your third for one simple fact.

I was singlehandedly the strongest proponent of the No Lynch. The idea which is the exact fucking opposite of the scum strategy you outline.

A50: Isn't the strongman unless scum have a strongman ninja kill.

It can be much simpler. Strongman-ascetic is a viable role combo.

Furthermore, it could be the strongman was a factional ability not specific to a player (ESPECIALLY if it was a 1x strongman).

So.

We are a One Shot Double-Day Maker aligned with town. With this, we can create an extra day phase after a lynch.

THERE'S YOUR ANSWER.

THERE IS WHY ACRYON'S ROLE IS A SCUMFUCK ROLE.

Do I really need to explain to you why THIS is the town's counter to the scum's gladiate?

Because, uh.
Yeah.

This is kinda self-explanatory.

VOTE: acryon.

[BuJaber]

Beef can't be scum without also implicating either mom or mastina.

So beef/mom/mastina all town unless A50 flips town.

Otherwise acryon/A50/NM is the team. They outed themselves man wow.. that is a lot of confidence. Kudos to that really. Admirable.


MASTINA STOP READING OLD SHIT SERIOUSLY JUST READ BACKWARDS ACRYON IS ALREADY DEAD

[the worst]

MASTINA STOP READING OLD SHIT SERIOUSLY JUST READ BACKWARDS ACRYON IS ALREADY DEAD

[Carrot and Stick]

3 person scumteam that is diabolical beyond anything I've ever even imagined let alone seen before.

This is actually how I play my bestest of best scumgames, it's just that this just so happens to not be one of them. Believe me though, when you do see it you'll be just as impressed with it as you would be if I had been scum this game.

Should we read into the fact that mastina is not posting here and the other head of the hydra hasn't shown up at all?

Nope! Activity has never been a tell. Not for me, not for my hydra partner flaking from the hydra.

Also there's no day chat as confirmed by OP so if you're right about acryon/c&S team it means they planned all of it at .. pre game setup? We're in day 2 right? Yeah acryon wagon was day 1.

Keep in mind I was a replacement so I wouldn't even have that if this is true--but can you remind me where it actually says no daytalk? This is an important setup fact I hadn't taken into consideration and having that information confirmed as true would help me a lot in stuff.

Also, fuck.
It occurred to me just now that Mathdino mighta made a major oversight.
RB vs. JK.
If the mod allows scum to both action and kill.
And the mod has a resolution such that RB > JK.
Then scumastina would still be able to kill.

Or if the mod has a resolution such that JK > RB.
Then Beefster as scum would still be able to kill.

So this is something which should probably be worked out before night.

[the worst]

I just reopened this thread to see mastina's vote and Buj's reactioj
I'll go suffer through this now ;n;

[the worst]

Also spotted post evidence. Math checked with Gamma that the mutual RB would block NK.

[the worst]

Post edit*

[Carrot and Stick]

Doesn't it make way more sense to use the double-day when we have

less

PRs and

more

information?

Yeah this is just about the most transparently scumfuck stance ever.

[the worst]

mastina

1. Ily and I'm actually actively learning from your play style regardless of alignment

2. If we lynched you would you come back as a goats and analyse ur own wagon for us?