Open 710: MKUltra - Foreign Spies Win!

[Alisae]

Alright Mikan, you sign up with Mika, you post with Mikan.
You can just drop the RP. I'm not keeping track of your larking.

MOD: Please enforce this rule. It's annoying to keep track of people who play under different account in the same game. There are enough replacement to keep track of already.

In fact, this post at all is the only reason why I started doing so in the first place and even switched accounts.

[skitter30]

I don't think I support an iconeum lynch tbh. I don't think he's done anything particularly scummy, especially when compared to other players. The fact that the people I *do* find scummy are pushing this is making me kinda wary of it.

[Alisae]

I don't think I support an iconeum lynch tbh. I don't think he's done anything particularly scummy, especially when compared to other players. The fact that the people I *do* find scummy are pushing this is making me kinda wary of it.

[skitter30]

Yes, I'm aware.

I don't think he's scummy. You haven't explained to me why he's scummy (And not just inept town). Given multiball, I might follow even you there if I independantly thought he was scummy, but I don't.

Like I don't think he's scummy in the first place, and the fact that you and sky want it makes it even more dubious.

[Sky_Paladin]

What do you guys think about the convo Hawk/GIF had starting around 272? Could it be between partners?

I think it's plausible.

Skitter, please see my 685 re: Icon and let me know if you think it's a scum slot or not regardless of who is voting for it.

[skitter30]

I kinda said this already, but in case it wasn't obvious, I don't think it's a scum slot. Or more accurately, I don't think he's done anything actively scummy, and in comparison to multiple other players (you, alisae, gif, and spring), he seems townie, and he's probably like my fifth or sixth choice of a lynch today, out of six players. I think a lot of the things people are using to call him scummy might just be signs that he's new. I haven't seen anything inherently scummy from him.

Also I can't just ignore who's voting for there.

Also I had read your post.

I had looked at the vcs prior to your post and I didn't find anything particularly conclusive imo.

I feel like your post is kinda designed to push a narrative tbh, because you say:

So I am interested especially in people who found a reason to vote not!Hawk, because those players might be the other Fire scum, and I agree that our strat should be finish off the red team so there's one less night kill a time.

Which I think is very valid and a good place to look for Hawk partners.

You say about me:

Skitter had also been voting Hawk and empty-unvoted right before this vote count had gone out; she switched to Beefster.

But your lynchpool, based on hawk votes, is iconeum, gif, mikan. I'm not in it, and GIF was previously a townread and alisae cross-voted, and I don't really feel like you're actually interested in my unvote or the alisae cross vote given that you don't follow up with either of these anywhere.

I kinda feel like your post was more about justifying an iconeum push than actually looking at the hawk votes tbh.

[GuyInFreezer]

It was at this point that GiF suddenly pushed for a RedFlavor wagon.

Actually it was when the PL talk came on rise. I was not going to accept PLs in multiball (especially on my townread, nonetheless) and I felt like RF was kept going under the radar while a lot of people scumread him, so I pushed it hard.

Don't believe me? Look at my rallying post. Look at the quotes that I quoted.

[GuyInFreezer]

And yes, he was literally my only scumread (one that mattered anyway) during the entire D1.

[Sky_Paladin]

Skitter

I kinda said this already, but in case it wasn't obvious, I don't think it's a scum slot. Or more accurately,

I don't think he's done anything actively scummy

, and in comparison to multiple other players (you, alisae, gif, and spring), he seems townie, and he's probably like my fifth or sixth choice of a lynch today, out of six players. I think a lot of the things people are using to call him scummy might just be signs that he's new.

Emphasis mine. That's an interesting choice of words. May I presume he has done something actively towny to make you town read him? Please indicate where/how.

Skitter (on votes against Hawk on day 1)

I had looked at the vcs prior to your post and I didn't find anything particularly conclusive imo.

Which I think is very valid and a good place to look for Hawk partners.

These appear to directly contradict each other. Could you please clarify for me?

I feel like your post is kinda designed to push a narrative tbh,

That's because it is. I am trying to correlate what has happened in the game so far and project it to an end - and then make alignment guesses based on where I feel that path is going. For example, right now I feel that there's a strong chance you and Icon are the ice mafia team; but I'm really gunning to finish off the fire mafia first to push us ahead. I have been mistrusting of Icon for some weird posts earlier in the game as highlighted in this post and so I have a suspicion over the slot.

When you switched your vote off of Hawk and on to Beefster, you didn't join in the push on Red Flavor, as I would expect from a Hawk-scumbuddy, and actively called the Beefster/GiF wagons terrible even though you wanted to push both of them - as we exhaustedly went over yesterday. To me that means you probably aren't Fire Mafia with Hawk, because you didn't really make the RedFlavor lynch happen and you didn't push for others to get off the Hawk wagon. Contrast with Icon explicitly saying he was only interested in lynching Red or Beefster (I can't recall you saying anything like this).

I'm 'not interested' in your unvote of Hawk because I don't think you are Fire mafia; and if you are mafia with any of Mikan/GiF/Icon that excludes that player from being Fire. Icon could easily be either Fire or Ice mafia, and so that's why I'm favouring the vote there. I AM interested in you hating on both the GiF/Beefster wagons, but less so now that Beefster has flipped green - you could legitimately be town hating two wagons, or you could be scum buddying. WIFOM.

Basically I don't see you plausibly being Fire mafia because of your unvote so I'm not interested in pushing there.

I don't really feel like you're actually interested in my unvote or the alisae cross vote given that you don't follow up with either of these anywhere.

The Mikan/Hawk vote is interesting, but not as interesting as Mikan pushing for Spring. I would have expected her to go for GiF/Icon, especially after her wall on Icon. I am interested in seeing who cares about Icon, though.

[skitter30]

Emphasis mine. That's an interesting choice of words. May I presume he has done something actively towny to make you town read him? Please indicate where/how.

No, he hasn't, which is why I said that; I elaborated in the rest of the paragraph. I don't townread anyone right now, so I'm resorting to ranking people by how scummy I find them. He's like the fifth/tied-for-fifth/sixth least scummy person. (I'm having trouble deciding if I townread sesq more or less than him). He hasn't done anything townie recently, but he hasn't done anything scummy either, which makes him less scummy than my scumreads, so I want him lynched less than them.

I don't think the reasons given to scumread him are particularly compelling, or at least, I don't think they do much to explain why he's scummy and not just new town.

These appear to directly contradict each other. Could you please clarify for me?

I thought it was a good idea to look at the Hawk voters. I had. After doing so, I don't think that the Hawk votes were particuarly conclusive or gave any solid leads, which is why I didn't really have much to say about your vca.

the Beefster/GiF wagons terrible even though you wanted to push both of them

I liked the GIF wagon. I didn't like that Beef had joined it and I wanted to leave it cuz he joined it, which told me I scumread Beef more so I voted there. I never had a problem with the Beef wagon (I unvoted solely cuz I didn't want a lolhammer while there were two slots that weren't doing anything; we ended up having a lolhammer like the next day IRL anyways.)

or tldr: I was cool with a wagon on either of them but the way beef joined gif made me want to vote beef more than gif cuz I didn't like his vote. I left beef cuz I didn't want a lolhammer with two empty slots

I still don't get what you don't like about this, and I don't think I called either wagon terrible. (I called the *red* wagon terrible, cuz it was. I also called *my* wagon terrible, cuz it was). I don't think I called either of the beef or gif wagons terrible. I did say that I didn't like beef joining the gif wagon.

I still think GIF is sketchy and I think I might be voting for him shortly. (I'm trying to come to some sort of conclusion whether or not that convo I linked comes from partners).

When you switched your vote off of Hawk and on to Beefster, you didn't join in the push on Red Flavor,

Hawk and red weren't concurrent so these two things have like nothing to do with each other. Like I was actively v/la for like the entirety of the formation of the red wagon so the fact that you're using that as a reason I'm not a hawk partner is silly.

(Although tbf I wouldn't have voted there anyways if I was around cuz I was townreading him)

That's because it is. I am trying to correlate what has happened in the game so far and project it to an end - and then make alignment guesses based on where I feel that path is going

Yes, I agree that the goal of the game is to look at what's happened and to use that to make informed guesses about what's happening, but I feel like you aren't sharing what you're actually thinking, so much as looking for things that you can push. Like you feel pre-meditated and planned. Like you're pushing this because you can push it and you think it'll gain traction, and not so much cuz you actually think he's scummy and want to lynch scum.

I'm 'not interested' in your unvote of Hawk because I don't think you are Fire mafia; and if you are mafia with any of Mikan/GiF/Icon that excludes that player from being Fire. Icon could easily be either Fire or Ice mafia, and so that's why I'm favouring the vote there. I AM interested in you hating on both the GiF/Beefster wagons, but less so now that Beefster has flipped green - you could legitimately be town hating two wagons, or you could be scum buddying. WIFOM.

a) I wasn't aware that your scumread on me was so big that you're POE'ing teams (and therefore potential Fire mafia) based on whether or not they could be partners with me

(IE this feels like something you just made up to respond to me saying I didn't like your post, as opposed to something you've been thinking this entire time)

b) I think your reasoning for me not being a hawk partner is silly and completely inconclusive given that the red wagon happened while I was v/la.

c) You say 'you're not interested in my Hawk unvote cuz you don't think I'm fire mafia', but then you say 'you don't plausibly see me being fire mafia cuz of the unvote' - you're reasoning for why I'm not fire mafia is the hawk unvote as far as I can tell? Like you're using the conclusion as the premise so this is really twisty circular logic. I'm not fire mafia cuz of the hawk unvote, but my hawk unvote isn't interesting cuz I'm not fire mafia.

d) I feel like there's something else very twisty with the logic in this paragraph but I can't figure out what it is right now; I'll get back to it if I figure it out.

The Mikan/Hawk vote is interesting, but not as interesting as Mikan pushing for Spring.

I find that mikan/hawk vote to be *super* interesting given that we *know* hawk to be scum but we don't know about the alignments of mikan or spring or icon or you or me or gif or sesq.

[springlullaby]

Alright Mikan, you sign up with Mika, you post with Mikan.
You can just drop the RP. I'm not keeping track of your larking.

MOD: Please enforce this rule. It's annoying to keep track of people who play under different account in the same game. There are enough replacement to keep track of already.

In fact, this post at all is the only reason why I started doing so in the first place and even switched accounts.

Tell me alisae, what do you think of me putting pressure on you to stop cluttering the thread with account switching and an oui hein RP?

[springlullaby]

*annoying ^

[springlullaby]

BTW, just throwing another wrench in there, this is multiball, no scum can actually know that another player isn't scum. This is just eww from Alisae and makes me thing ego parade OMGUS more than scum because it's just so dumb.

Nope it applies just because you're scum doesn't mean you can't think a player is going to flip town and act like it will.

If this is all you have to say then you should just die.
Also if you think its dumb great, no one cares and we're just going to lynch you today anyways~

And now that the dust has settled a bit. What do you think of what you wrote there ? Still a valid point about why you think i'm scum ?

[Sesq]

replacing out

[GuyInFreezer]

This is a post.

#760 has no point.

[Sky_Paladin]

GiF - thoughts on Skitter/my posts on this page?

I kind of feel bad that we wrote all that and you just picked some random thing to comment on.

[Sky_Paladin]

@Spring

So I was looking at GiF's post just now because I was trying to figure out why if he was empty content posting and I noticed in your ISO that you had Mikan listed as your strong townread back in 647, 659 and actually pretty much every post since then.

What are you actually doing in 760/762?

Why are you voting Sesq and not (say) Icon or GiF?

[Sky_Paladin]

springlullaby (3) - Sesq, GuyInFreezer, Alisae L-1

Alisae (1) - Iconeum
Iconeum (1) - Sky_Paladin
Sesq (1) - springlullaby

Not Voting: skitter30

Skiiiiiiitter who are you going to vote for.

I feel like you want to vote GiF because you've wanted to since forever, but you're not voting because...?

[skitter30]

Idk. I feel kinda stuck with this game, and I fell l

[GuyInFreezer]

GiF - thoughts on Skitter/my posts on this page?

too
damn
long

[skitter30]

Skiiiiiiitter who are you going to vote for.

I feel like you want to vote GiF because you've wanted to since forever, but you're not voting because...?

Idk. I feel kinda stuck with this game, and I fell l

Whoops, sorry, I was on my way to a thing and hit submit accidentally before I finished the thought.

Basically, idk. My goal for today is to find fire mafia, but I feel kinda stuck - people aren't posting and I feel like I'm basically talking to my scumreads. I have a scumpool - you/GIF/Alisae/spring - and I think that most, if not all, scum are within that group. I really want to bounce my ideas off of someone I think town, but my townreads aren't posting. The townreads aren't even that strong anyways, but to refine them I'd like need to talk to them .....

I don't think you're partners with Hawk. Or at least, I don't see anything either pointing towards that or ruling it out. Same with Spring/Mumble.

I'm not joining a wagon pushed by my scumreads on someone I don't scumread.

I'm basically trying to decide if I'm going to vote GIF or Alisae. Probably Alisae cuz I'm very confidant the slot is scum even if I'm not sure if it's Fire mafia.

I'm leaning against thinking that GIF is fire mafia cuz I think that convo that I linked *probably* doesn't come from partners. I really want input on that but you're the only person who responded and I don't really trust you right now.

I'm also kinda wary of setting down a vote cuz I've kinda gotten the vibe that scum may have figured out who each other are at this point, and I'm worried that if I vote a townie scum will pile on.

Actually I think I'm just going to vote Alisae. I don't know if I'm going to make much headway figuring out fire mafia while talking to myself. Even if they're not fire mafia, I'm fairly confidant that Alisae's scum.

VOTE: Alisae

[Alisae]

Dear Skitter:
I'm town and you're bad for not voting scum.

[skitter30]

Dear Alisae:
I don't think you're town and your Red vote was awful.

[Alisae]

Dear Skitter:
You're scum with Spring or Icon because you don't want to vote them and using the hammer vote as justification for a scumread is scummy.

Yes.
I hammered a scumread.
Good job.

[skitter30]

Dear Alisae,

That isn't the only reason I scumread you; I was trying to write something parallel to your 'you're bad for not voting scum'. I'm not using a hammer vote as a justifcation for a scumread. (ie the fact that it was a hammer isn't the issue)

Math was scummy cuz he was being LAMIST and was like looking for towncred. Impede was scummy cuz he was making things to push so he'd look busy. Your vote on red was gross (not cuz you hammered a scumread but cuz you know quite well that the rp alt was hard for people to read and you using that as an excuse to scumread a guy that new for saying that he didn't like it is scummy). I think you're putting up a show of scumhunting today cuz you'd have been lynched if you didn't start doing something; it's a survival tactic from you as far as I can tell.

I don't think Icon is scummy and I won't be voting them until you can tell me why they aren't new town.

I think your slot is scummier than Spring and the fact that like all of my scumreads want it is suspicious (yes multiball, yes aids, no that doesn't change my mind)