VARSOON VARIETY HOUR : GAME SCRAPPED

[OnTheMark]

Faking a claim pigeonholes the amount of worlds scum can operate in:

Either A) they believe it til lylo or B) they are forced to dismantle and therefore bus mastina

Truthtelling a claim gives town information and then they can’t have mastina say it isn’t true down the line of scum need a roleblocker or something.

It’s a ridiculously newb scum gambit move mastina would not make.

Point B.

[Maid Cafe]

Did it seriously take you 4 pages to say you thought Mastina claimed an investigative role.

~B

[OnTheMark]

That's not an investigative claim?

~B

I didn’t say she was an investigative. I said investigatives would mess with her.

[OnTheMark]

Did it seriously take you 4 pages to say you thought Mastina claimed an investigative role.

~B

No.

I am not saying that.

I am saying whatever she does claim has to match her open.

[Maid Cafe]

Ok all your logic is bad but it's vaguely there.
Now the 3rd question.

Since Varsoon essentially designed 17 town roles then made 4 people scum.
Why exactly is that risky to claim given it's truthful regardless of her alignment?

~B

[Maid Cafe]

We almost made it down the 3 questions I asked on page 4.
Only 1 left!

~B

[Chara]

he answered them earlier, you just didn't understand. much like he didn't understand you, earlier. he's also already answered your question in 204, let's see how long it takes that to be figured out, hurray!

[Chara]

like this isn't AI. maybe it is but i wouldn't know how to look at it. i hate reading it, not because it's noise (i really don't care about noise), but because i can see what both of you are trying to say. but there's no clear communication, just a series of misinterpretations. that's why it's taking pages and pages to explain simple things on, now, both fronts.

[OnTheMark]

Ok all your logic is bad but it's vaguely there.
Now the 3rd question.

Since Varsoon essentially designed 17 town roles then made 4 people scum.
Why exactly is that risky to claim given it's truthful regardless of her alignment?

~B

It’s bad scum play.

Let’s say for shits and giggles Mastina claims tracker. (I don’t think she is this is for practical example) She then has to provide truthful results each night.

If she lies then she is outed scum. If someone rolecops her and she didn’t come back tracker then she is outed scum.

That is way too huge a risk in a 17 player game.

Now assume she is scum tracker telling the truth. Then she still has to give us accurate information. Scum also can’t challenge the claim or they have to bus her.

The manipulation they can do is then extremely limited and not talking about it with colleagues and/or winging it with hyperposters is just bad play.

[OnTheMark]

he answered them earlier, you just didn't understand. much like he didn't understand you, earlier. he's also already answered your question in 204, let's see how long it takes that to be figured out, hurray!

Pedit sorry

[Chara]

no one needs to apologize here, i'm sorry i made it seem like i was upset with either of you. just hoping to move things along.

[Maid Cafe]

How the fuck is claiming a condition committing to claiming a role.

~B

[Reasonably Rational]

Chara, can you please elaborate on your miller claim. Mainly if you're a universal miller, or if it's just alignment type investigations that your passive affects.

Regarding OTM: I find it weird that they never specified investigative as as problem for mastina, instead focusing on the rhetorically limitations an early fake claim would place upon her, but somehow thought they had mentioned the obvious threat of an investigative catching mastina in a lie. Seems like an unlikely mistake for scum to make(more town poorly expressing their thoughts than scum being inconsistent), but the slot is worth watching.

-Cerb

[OnTheMark]

Chara, can you please elaborate on your miller claim. Mainly if you're a universal miller, or if it's just alignment type investigations that your passive affects.

Regarding OTM: I find it weird that they never specified investigative as as problem for mastina, instead focusing on the rhetorically limitations an early fake claim would place upon her, but somehow thought they had mentioned the obvious threat of an investigative catching mastina in a lie. Seems like an unlikely mistake for scum to make(more town poorly expressing their thoughts than scum being inconsistent), but the slot is worth watching.

-Cerb

Because it’s like duh?

[OnTheMark]

Chara, can you please elaborate on your miller claim. Mainly if you're a universal miller, or if it's just alignment type investigations that your passive affects.

Regarding OTM: I find it weird that they never specified investigative as as problem for mastina, instead focusing on the rhetorically limitations an early fake claim would place upon her, but somehow thought they had mentioned the obvious threat of an investigative catching mastina in a lie. Seems like an unlikely mistake for scum to make(more town poorly expressing their thoughts than scum being inconsistent), but the slot is worth watching.

-Cerb

How the fuck is claiming a condition committing to claiming a role.

~B

Because the same logic applies.

Replace tracker with weird thing mastina claimed. She is still bound by it.

It all still holds.

[Maid Cafe]

If I say "My role can't be used if I am ever set to L-2" an example of a condition for a role.
How exactly does that limit what I can claim in the future.

~B

[Reasonably Rational]

It's super like duh, but you SPECIFICALLY referred to nonexistent posts mentioning investigatives as your response to maid cafes line of inquiry. That's what's weird to me. Not the reasoning.

I do think you're not giving mastina enough credit, and overestimating how much the claim mastina made would limit her as scum if untrue, but it's a reasonable perspective.

-Cerb

[Taly]

I'm confused reading this conversation

[Maid Cafe]

So Mark what exactly in your own words not Mastina's, did Mastina claim she could do.
I read that she claimed that she was "powerful" and needed people to not vote her.

Roleblock is powerful, 2-shot Cop is powerful, Jailkeeper is powerful, whatever cards are in my hand that can be drawn by any player with my color(s) is also powerful.
She didn't limit herself at all.

~B

[Maid Cafe]

It's super like duh,

but you SPECIFICALLY referred to nonexistent posts

mentioning investigatives as your response to maid cafes line of inquiry. That's what's weird to me. Not the reasoning.

I do think you're not giving mastina enough credit, and overestimating how much the claim mastina made would limit her as scum if untrue, but it's a reasonable perspective.

-Cerb

T H A N K Y O U
It's not he failed to try and answer is that he is saying he answered in ways he didn't.

~B

[Chara]

Cerb: i checked with Varsoon about that already, am told i investigate as though i'm a member of The End specifically. meaning a gunsmith sees i can kill, a cop gets a red result, etc. apologies for not clarifying earlier.

and about Mark: i think he conflated the two in his head, from the implications in his posts that that's what he thought he was saying, even though he actually wasn't. i still don't think it's AI, but i do think any inconsistencies aren't because he's lying scum.

[Maid Cafe]

What sorting has Mark done this game?

~B

[OnTheMark]

If I say "My role can't be used if I am ever set to L-2" an example of a condition for a role.
How exactly does that limit what I can claim in the future.

~B

Say for example a scum player claims L-2 Vengekill
Then when they get to L-2 a Vengekill has to happen or they are outed. By exposing ways they could put themselves they have to take that into consideration with their claim and plays.

Even if they don’t specify the exact nature of the item at l-2.
Then the scum play has to resolve around either getting to or avoiding l-2 depending on truth or fakeclaiming.

[Maid Cafe]

Like let's go to 66% of my read and forget about Mastina for the rest of the day
This line of reasoning can hardly be discussed as well so we are all lucky!

I don't think Mark tried to sort me but was randomly bickering with me regardless. Like pointing out typos but not my arguments.
I don't think Mark's townblock shit has any real sorting it's just calling people town, like I can go through his ISO and find plenty of people in his townblock that aren't explained.

Mark as town is a lot more aggressive and wouldn't just buddy people and try and townblock for unexplained reasons since Mark would try and communicate his read even if no one understands it.
Like Mark as town buddies like 50% of the time and it is more subtle and is based on liking people personally and wanting too cooperate or due to having stronger reads.

Mark as scum is this shit which is just buddying and posturing hardcore.

I am saying I know Mark's main but idk if I wanna dive into the meta too much.

~B

[OnTheMark]

So Mark what exactly in your own words not Mastina's, did Mastina claim she could do.
I read that she claimed that she was "powerful" and needed people to not vote her.

Roleblock is powerful, 2-shot Cop is powerful, Jailkeeper is powerful, whatever cards are in my hand that can be drawn by any player with my color(s) is also powerful.
She didn't limit herself at all.

~B

She claims she has some kind of ability related to voting towards day open.

This means I am expecting Mastina to watch day open like a hawk since she specifically has abilities tied to voting. If nothing comes of that or she doesn’t do something specifically towards how she opened then she needs a closer look at which point there is public evidence towards her lying.