VARSOON VARIETY HOUR : GAME SCRAPPED

[Maid Cafe]

I got mad while talking about Mastina, my point is Mark was ignoring a lot posts I was making but poking at really tiny stuff.
Like I got distracted my read isn't the mastina shit.

I think the Mastina stuff further shows a lack of sorting but it isn't my entire read and it never would be.

It's the above. Mark would buddy and Mark would try and townblock as town but not in the way he is doing this game.
It's just the 0 explanation random posturing buddy stuff isn't how he'd do it. But he'd do it as scum.

~B

[OnTheMark]

Like let's go to 66% of my read and forget about Mastina for the rest of the day
This line of reasoning can hardly be discussed as well so we are all lucky!

I don't think Mark tried to sort me but was randomly bickering with me regardless. Like pointing out typos but not my arguments.
I don't think Mark's townblock shit has any real sorting it's just calling people town, like I can go through his ISO and find plenty of people in his townblock that aren't explained.

Mark as town is a lot more aggressive and wouldn't just buddy people and try and townblock for unexplained reasons since Mark would try and communicate his read even if no one understands it.
Like Mark as town buddies like 50% of the time and it is more subtle and is based on liking people personally and wanting too cooperate or due to having stronger reads.

Mark as scum is this shit which is just buddying and posturing hardcore.

I am saying I know Mark's main but idk if I wanna dive into the meta too much.

~B

You can try to meta me if you wish but I have spent the past few months offsite working on meta issues.

So you CAN try to use the old meta if you wish. It just isn’t factually relevant.

[Maid Cafe]

I've seen you play on MU.

I just really think it's different, it's not like "Hey town cerb how is it hanging let's town bloc up"
It's more like "Yay Cerb did X and is town, how's it going let's townbloc up".
Like you'd be communicating your reads as you go in a more meaningful way then just outright stating them.

~B

[OnTheMark]

I have gone from directly case bombing to one or two word posts sometimes just being declarative of how I feel about a person.

I find when I do that I am almost exclusively right. I form two blocks and work with people not against as both alignments now.

I understand it’s not something people are used to from me, but I am trying to be a better player and assuming I am always going to be a shitty asshole sucks.

[Maid Cafe]

To brace for the incoming meta arguments I mean you can sub out the word meta and this is a read I'd mostly hold for anyone.
The way Mark is posturing and not really talking about a lot of his reads is just scummy.
I have meta to back it up but like even without it I think it's something you can identify.

~B

[OnTheMark]

I have gone from directly case bombing to one or two word posts sometimes just being declarative of how I feel about a person.

I find when I do that I am almost exclusively right. I form town blocks and work with people not against as both alignments now.

I understand it’s not something people are used to from me, but I am trying to be a better player and assuming I am always going to be a shitty asshole sucks.

Ebwop

[Shining Dreamers]

oh bee obv towned for me already god bless

Sorry, but no. (Consider this also a response to bee's content prior to this. All of it.)

Btw as indicated--I can push this stronger if need be, I am recording stuff in a PT the mod provided, but I'll be trying to keep my posting to a minimum in this thread. So I'm only responding to the most important of things publicly.

This qualifies.

[Shining Dreamers]

i'm a miller. i'll investigate as The End.

You're the me this game!
...Except you'll actually be nightkilled rather than be taken to 3p lylo.
(That being said, I anticipate being dead before lylo this game, not by lynch.)

Mastina when I ain’t out with my bros we need to legit talk.

If the talk is about a bee scumread, I am all down for it. bee's not my only scumread and isn't my strongest scumread, but I'll only be sharing the final readslist I have when caught up. (The others you'll just have to wait until postgame to read the PT to see.)

[OnTheMark]

It’s a mastina (or a Yume!)

When you’re caught up I would love a sanity check chica.

[Shining Dreamers]

Hi town. How you doing?

So they're gonna find out when I post my final readslist anyway, but Reasonably Rational is in my scum list already. (I'M SORRY.)

This has many caveats to it--I am giving you my word that unless something of absolute dire consequence comes up or Yume specifically asks me to (if Yume wants to push them, then I will of course help her out <3), I'm not going to actually push that before D3 at the absolute earliest (with even D3 probably being too soon). The scumread is not rock-solid; it is barely above average in strength. It is subject to change and I consider Reasonably Rational to be a self-sorting slot akin to Creature.

They just take much, much, much longer to get to that stage. I know damn good and well not to trust a scumread like this so early on, that it very well can (and probably will) reverse. And while I do expect to die during the night, I don't expect it to be immediately, so I can afford to wait on this. To put it another way--I won't lie and say I townread them, but I will still work with them actively as possible and come to my own conclusions later on. Though the read is technically scum, I am going to treat them as if town and give them that reads pass more or less for about (preferably slightly over) half the game.

(You CAN read them correctly before then...it's just that it's much, much harder and both Drixx and I at the very least don't want the grief of me trying regardless of his alignment. It gets UGLY when I am vocal about scumreading him. I mean it's ugly for me to scumread him REGARDLESS since me being subtle about it doesn't do much to lessen how shitty it is...but however bad scumreading him in the background might be, doing so in the foreground is ten times worse.)

SO WITH THAT SAID.

You can go ahead and trust them...
...But don't trust them to be town fully until they have the resume actually supporting it.

They absolutely don't have that yet. I honestly don't think it's possible for them to have it before D2 because before D2 there's no definitive information to tell you what is and is not town. Only assumptions. And given that Reasonably Rational is just about the most powertown hydra in existence regardless of whether they are town or scum...on D1, assumptions will always point those not more in the know to them being town.

tl;dr version: Please don't be mad at me, Drixx. I'm giving you a LOT of leeway here. A LOT. I just can't afford to give you unlimited sway because Cerb's play has been such where you aren't in the zone where I can. My read is what my read is and right now that read is not a positive one, so I advise others to take caution in having one prematurely.

[Micc]

Trying to townblock on page 5 feels kinda insane to me.

I read the whole thread but most of it felt pretty meaningless. I'll be back when we can vote.

predit: oh look its mastina. looking forward to finally playing a game with you.

[Shining Dreamers]

I am going to claim something I prolly should have approached subtly but it heavily helps the town to target us with actions that grants our slots abilities/items/whatever you wanna call it. When we gain an ability as a result of another player/Creature's spell or ability (which is all actions) we will "power up", well not exactly but I don't really want to claim that part. But essentially just give us free stuff since it's more cost effective then giving other players stuff in a pretty meaningful way.
~B

I am fairly certain this is a >random scum ability.

Not just from a game design perspective, but from a Varsoon game design perspective.

It's the kind which

could

come from town, admittedly, yes. But it is still far >random odds of being a scum ability.

Claiming it openly does nothing to lessen that.

[Shining Dreamers]

The reason I say that is people will make assumptions based on their role PMs. This is a Varsoon game. That means heads out of mechanics and eyes on the prize lynching scum.

How do you say this stuff and town read mastina for having a role.
~B

How do you say this stuff and yet post post 88?

[Shining Dreamers]

If that is truly her role why would she holster the info.

I state what I deem I need to--nothing more. Revealing the information I saw as giving no benefit with potential harm; holstering the information I saw as doing no harm but being potentially helpful.

How do you know the claim in question is "factual"?
~B

Well given V's interpretation of my role is different from what mine was when I claimed...it wasn't.

Buuuuuuuuuuut, aside from that technicality: the claim in question is factual because scumastina doesn't make (deliberately) non-factual claims. (And for that matter is less likely to accidentally make a non-factual claim.) You have played with me often enough to be well aware of this. I've no interest in rambling on my mafia philosophy on why I hold this stance, but there's no need to; there are multiple individuals in this game who can vouch for it, and you SHOULD be among them.

Seconded. They're making a true statement, which is not indicative of their alignment.
-Cerb

No prizes for what I think of your content thusfar.

[Shining Dreamers]

80% sure OMW is scum btw.
~B

What a coincidence! That's about how sure I am your slot's scum.

[Shining Dreamers]

Your argument so far is I don’t like Mark’s playstyle. Which scum generally don’t. Especially on MU.

Oh my god how the hell did it take me this long to recognize you.

[Shining Dreamers]

Mark looking busy

If my identity guess for OnTheMark is, indeed,

accurate

, then this is not alignment indicative; he would be doing "busywork" this early in the game regardless of his alignment.

He happens to be my second-strongest townread, a position I doubt he'll leave, but that is for other reasons.

That having been said, if I do indeed know his identity, I also know better than to assume I can read him.

[Shining Dreamers]

like this isn't AI. maybe it is but i wouldn't know how to look at it. i hate reading it, not because it's noise (i really don't care about noise), but because i can see what both of you are trying to say. but there's no clear communication, just a series of misinterpretations. that's why it's taking pages and pages to explain simple things on, now, both fronts.

I am of the opinion this is deliberate on the part of bee.

[Shining Dreamers]

Chara
OnTheMark (CAVEAT: if I know his identity this is a much weaker townread because my ability to read him is shit and in actuality bee's raised points mirror many of my own concerns)
Iconeum
Bronya Zaychik
Tibor and Lumia

Baku and Munna

Dunnstral
SnarkySnowman
Almost50

Venmar


Micc
Taly


Reasonably Rational (CAVEAT: IS EFFECTIVELY LYNCH-IMMUNE BEFORE D3)
Maid Cafe
Skybird


(ABSENT: Creature deliberately removed.)

Final readslist.

[Shining Dreamers]

(Or RATHER: bee's raised points, IF I AM CORRECT ABOUT ONTHEMARK'S IDENTITY, mirror my own concerns. Not enough where I'd reverse the townread if right on his identity, but enough where I'd be greatly hesitant. Benefit of the doubt does apply though; I am willing to wager he has in fact changed his style. It's just something which...is a little concerning.
All this goes out the window if I'm incorrect on his identity; he'd just be town then, outright.)

[OnTheMark]

So ...you caught up Mastina?

Also I am curious about Creature being intentionally omitted. Why?

[Shining Dreamers]

Also I am curious about Creature being intentionally omitted. Why?

He's self-sorting, but not quite yet.

About one week is the timeframe I'd use. He can give false positives to looking like his scumgame in a few real-life days but by a week his townness shines through; he can falsely pass as town given a few real-life days but he can't keep it up and by a week he tends to reveal his scum colors.

No amount of coaching in the world can salvage that. No change, no effort, nothing. A week might not be a perfect timeframe reference (sure, it's possible for it to be much, much shorter, and it is in some rare instances possible to take longer), but it's a fair estimation of approximately how long it'll take to sort him. He'll be either an innocent child or confscum when I do sort him, but there's no need to try at the moment.

[OnTheMark]

Interesting. I had him as lock town because reasons.

There’s a current I am having trouble finding. Something is weird this game I can’t put my finger on.

[OnTheMark]

Kiana and I TR RR and Creature strongly.

I agree with this as well.

I look forward to trying to see more of your unified reads and Kiana posting.

[OnTheMark]

@mastina — Iconeum no posts.

How do you read that slot as town?