VARSOON VARIETY HOUR : GAME SCRAPPED

[Bronya Zaychik]

RR, ask if a player needs steal/manipulate players votes to gain mana.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi Nancy! Hello from Roundie

Oh she's on MU?

[Bronya Zaychik]

Link?

From what I know of Zaychik’s it only applies in business settings and has different requirements outside of mafia
#PleaseTeachMe

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... nterprises

Okay so this is actually like a mafia post what do you make of Snarky saying the A50 request is silly after asking our opinion.

I am sure I just made a joke because Zaychik is this hydra's last name, and would be what an algorithm for scumhunting named after us would be called.

I think you just googled that up and pretended that you knew it because I have never heard of a real-world Zaychik algorithm. But if I am wrong and you actually did know about that please forgive me

You can actually try making an automated mafia scumhunter for a PhD thesis. I'm sure now that would be a challenge for you.

~Kiana

[Reasonably Rational]

RR, ask if a player needs steal/manipulate players votes to gain mana.

Good thought. Mana generation category, so I can ask about it tomorrow. :-/

I don't know if I explicitly stated this, but after my guesses, Varsoon said they were(respectively) Mana generation, roles in the game, and scum factional abilities.

I also asked him if I could ask about third parties without that counting as part of the roles in the game, and he said I could...however, from the way our win condition is worded, there's no reason to believe a third party exists, unless that third parties abilities explicitly state that town can not win while they're alive. That would be a good way to avoid the problem Varsoon ran into in other games, where the win conditions revealed the likelihood of third parties existing.

Anyways, might be something I'll ask about. idk.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Kiana: That is mastina's normal posting style. She's very long winded and a bit rambly. I think she should really just take a break from the game on days when she's so busy. :-/ Let her other head take the reins, but *shrug*.

-Cerb

[OnTheMark]

*sniff*

Guilty as charged on the googling but I do actually learn about IIS stuff every week so it was a fun find.

And lol I haven’t been in college in a looooong time. I highly doubt I could bot anything smart enough. Mafia is too complex. I am much better at fooling algorithms than making them. Could program a heat map but I think at some point it’s not Mafia anymore if I do. Some people have tried but their bots don’t catch me yet. When their bots do I might consider it.

Now I believe you were going to answer my question about Snarky?

Pedit: why not just ask if third parties exist? It isn’t alignment indicative and it just asks about existence.

[Reasonably Rational]

*sniff*

Guilty as charged on the googling but I do actually learn about IIS stuff every week so it was a fun find.

And lol I haven’t been in college in a looooong time. I highly doubt I could bot anything smart enough. Mafia is too complex. I am much better at fooling algorithms than making them. Could program a heat map but I think at some point it’s not Mafia anymore if I do. Some people have tried but their bots don’t catch me yet. When their bots do I might consider it.

Now I believe you were going to answer my question about Snarky?

Pedit: why not just ask if third parties exist? It isn’t alignment indicative and it just asks about existence.

What gave you the impression that I wasn't going to ask that? The possibility of asking that is exactly what I was referring to in that post...I was just stating that I feel it's decently unlikely that third parties exist in this game that anti-town, unless they have an ability explicitly preventing town from winning once we've removed all of The End faction.

-Cerb

[OnTheMark]

The fact you thought the answer would be no, seems to imply that you don’t want to ask or feel it’s a wasted question.

[Bronya Zaychik]

Okay so this is actually like a mafia post what do you make of Snarky saying the A50 request is silly after asking our opinion.

Okay I just saw this after you reminded me. I think Snarky's lie detect is limited, a lot more so than RR's questions about the game, so it's actually truly a waste of a lie detect to check something so trivial as a vote thief on A50. So, I agree.

We must first establish the parameters of SS's lie detect, then we can use it to its maximum potential. I don't think we even know how limited his lie detects are yet. If so, please remind me

~Kiana

[Bronya Zaychik]

And lol I haven’t been in college in a looooong time. I highly doubt I could bot anything smart enough. Mafia is too complex. I am much better at fooling algorithms than making them. Could program a heat map but I think at some point it’s not Mafia anymore if I do. Some people have tried but their bots don’t catch me yet. When their bots do I might consider it.

Muahaha. A real challenge indeed for you now Mark.

If you do indeed choose this topic for a PhD thesis I volunteer to be expert source. Maybe even co-author. Algorithms won't work too well because everyone plays scum differently. Technologies needed include natural language processing, sentiment analysis, we might likely need machine learning. Possible to ask admins of this site to data scrap the archived games.

~Kiana


PS: This may be a fun project, but I would imagine it would be hard to get fun(ding). Or maybe there will be. Who knows. I don't have a PhD.

[OnTheMark]

Okay so this is actually like a mafia post what do you make of Snarky saying the A50 request is silly after asking our opinion.

Okay I just saw this after you reminded me. I think Snarky's lie detect is limited, a lot more so than RR's questions about the game, so it's actually truly a waste of a lie detect to check something so trivial as a vote thief on A50. So, I agree.

We must first establish the parameters of SS's lie detect, then we can use it to its maximum potential. I don't think we even know how limited his lie detects are yet. If so, please remind me

~Kiana

Snarky said it’s once per day any non alignment statement.

So A50’s qualifies as a good one as it helps town? (Still waffling on Alisae) cohesion and helps to establish whether vote thief is a secret role or not.

[Reasonably Rational]

The fact you thought the answer would be no, seems to imply that you don’t want to ask or feel it’s a wasted question.

Considering it would likely be in it's own category, that is, one pertaining to third parties, it's not a wasted question. It does mean that we'd be waiting even longer for more questions to be available to me.

-Cerb

[Bronya Zaychik]

Snarky said it’s once per day any non alignment statement.

So A50’s qualifies as a good one as it helps town? (Still waffling on Alisae) cohesion and helps to establish whether vote thief is a secret role or not.

No I don't think it's a good use of the lie detect but it appears to be the best option we have today(?) to prevent wastage(?)

If RR's question regarding Vote Thief being needed for mana gain returns true, then the A50 turns to a useless question. Why would someone steal a vote from A50? Because A50 was absent and would be unlikely to use his vote meaningfully, or even notice the vote removal (though Varsoon probably issues a PM alert). Maybe the thief had something to gain from removing A50's vote, such as mana or an extra vote. RR's role can figure this out. We don't need to blow a 1-shot-per-day Lie Detect on that.

So I agree with Snarky that it is actually pretty bad use. I don't know if we can find a better one but if we can, we should.

~Kiana

[OnTheMark]

Snarky said it’s once per day any non alignment statement.

So A50’s qualifies as a good one as it helps town? (Still waffling on Alisae) cohesion and helps to establish whether vote thief is a secret role or not.

No I don't think it's a good use of the lie detect but it appears to be the best option we have today(?) to prevent wastage(?)

If RR's question regarding Vote Thief being needed for mana gain returns true, then the A50 turns to a useless question. Why would someone steal a vote from A50? Because A50 was absent and would be unlikely to use his vote meaningfully, or even notice the vote removal (though Varsoon probably issues a PM alert). Maybe the thief had something to gain from removing A50's vote, such as mana or an extra vote. RR's role can figure this out. We don't need to blow a 1-shot-per-day Lie Detect on that.

So I agree with Snarky that it is actually pretty bad use. I don't know if we can find a better one but if we can, we should.

~Kiana

I believe unless RR’s mana question for gain is flagged perfectly it will likely hit me. I would rather lie detect A50 to be safe.

[OnTheMark]

I kinda wanna hear why Snarky says it’s bad.

It’s suspicious AF to just say it’s bad without reasons.

[SnarkySnowman]

It's a stupid and not scummy thing to lie about

[Reasonably Rational]

Snarky said it’s once per day any non alignment statement.

So A50’s qualifies as a good one as it helps town? (Still waffling on Alisae) cohesion and helps to establish whether vote thief is a secret role or not.

No I don't think it's a good use of the lie detect but it appears to be the best option we have today(?) to prevent wastage(?)

If RR's question regarding Vote Thief being needed for mana gain returns true, then the A50 turns to a useless question. Why would someone steal a vote from A50? Because A50 was absent and would be unlikely to use his vote meaningfully, or even notice the vote removal (though Varsoon probably issues a PM alert). Maybe the thief had something to gain from removing A50's vote, such as mana or an extra vote. RR's role can figure this out. We don't need to blow a 1-shot-per-day Lie Detect on that.

So I agree with Snarky that it is actually pretty bad use. I don't know if we can find a better one but if we can, we should.

~Kiana

I believe unless RR’s mana question for gain is flagged perfectly it will likely hit me. I would rather lie detect A50 to be safe.

1) I can do perfect questions.
2) Generating mana by stealing or manipulating someone else's vote sounds a lot easier than you've said your mana generation is.

-Cerb

[OnTheMark]

It's a stupid and not scummy thing to lie about

Those points I agree with but the thread doesn’t. Confirming a vote thief seems important because then we can find their motivations by whose votes they steal.

[OnTheMark]

My mana generation is hard, yes.
However ...<redacted> might count as mana gain.

Without hinting at <redacted> I can’t help your question.

So I would rather that not be asked.

[Bronya Zaychik]

It's a stupid and not scummy thing to lie about

Those points I agree with but the thread doesn’t. Confirming a vote thief seems important because then we can find their motivations by whose votes they steal.

That's not true.

I'm sure that if we receive multiple reports of alleged vote-thievery, then we can be sure that there is a sneaky one in our midst!

~Kiana

[Bronya Zaychik]

My mana generation is hard, yes.
However ...<redacted> might count as mana gain.

Without hinting at <redacted> I can’t help your question.

So I would rather that not be asked.

Does your mana gain involve the stealing of votes or the removal of another player's votes?

Yes/No.

If you deal with programmable logic, you should not be having problems with these kinds of issues.

~Kiana

[Bronya Zaychik]

Is Nancy Drew 39 related to the nancy who runs games in Newbie Queue?

[Bronya Zaychik]

I'm in favor of lie detecting A50 as well. The statement starts narrowing down a few universes.

1) A50 vote steal temporarily suggests something about the scumteam makeup, even if we can't act on it today.

A) Almost50 is the biggest early game threat to scum.
B) Scum selected a moderate threat to target to withhold information suggesting second order thinking.
C) Snarky and A50 are scum together.
D) Remote ~ The cause of the steal is town.

~Titus

[OnTheMark]

It's a stupid and not scummy thing to lie about

Those points I agree with but the thread doesn’t. Confirming a vote thief seems important because then we can find their motivations by whose votes they steal.

That's not true.

I'm sure that if we receive multiple reports of alleged vote-thievery, then we can be sure that there is a sneaky one in our midst!

~Kiana

*dies a bit inside*

A little faith please?

I would rather confirm Snarky as having what he claimed and a set of events rather than just believing them. Plus it gives a lot of hard-info roles for scum to deal with and narrows scum operation greatly.

[Venmar]

Serious question: is everyone having fun?

If you're not having fun, let's talk about it and figure out how to make this fun. I think Micc left because he wasn't having fun, and that sucks.
-Cerb

I'm having fun.
That said, large games can be a huge undertaking and this one already has 100+ pages, so just keeping up with all of it on top of the mechanics I tend to put into a game can be overwhelming.
I want you all to know that I appreciate your dedication to the game. I know staying up to date with a game like this one can be difficult, so thanks for sticking with it.

im having fun. this is actually one of my favourite games in a little while and im happy to be playing it

that said everytime i go to work or go to sleep i wake up to 10+ pages, and now we're at 106 pages, and it's burning me out really fast

catching up on 10 pages again :/, and i work in like 30 mins