Newbie 1859 (Game Over)

[Oxy]

EBWOP: last sentence "it will be my fault for not pushing a lynch harder on you on D1"

[Scioness Sajj]

One other thing I noticed is she likes to not-answer people's questions by asking them a question instead. I think she is doing this more here than she did in 1859.

Could you quote some examples?
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I think I have addressed all the things from yesterday, if I have missed anything let me know. I will be bearly present or not all through the weekend, so people with have time to catch up.
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The newst posts from Oxy make me thing he is tunneling me and really want to be right. Ie he had a gut read and thinks he has found a scum slip and is building a case from this POV. I don't think he has tried to actually sort me in this game and he is appealing to the crowd by adding onto his gut read. The case is weak. Too weak for scum on day 1 I believe. I won't be voting him.

p.edit
I have to wake up early tomorrow and it's alread 10pm so idk if we will get somewhere.

By successful I meant that you won. I did see your comment in post game, and I do know from your PT that you felt overwhelmed, but you did a great job and everyone who commented on your game agreed.

No mate, I have lost that game. I was lynched.

Primarily your straw man arguments, as detailed minutes ago in 215. (Seriously, Sajj, are you even reading the game?)

214 (215 is your post) isn't an arguement. I'm explaning my pov there.

No. That is not at all what this is saying. I'll go further and evaluate that statement. You DID have many plans and ideas throughout the PT. Many of them were great ideas. They were mostly reactive in nature, but there were definitely proactive ones as well. Things along the lines of, "we need to kill {player name} because of {game mechanic} and so that {other player name} will suspect so and so." or "I'll go make this argument to accomplish {goal x} which will allow you, meaning your partner, to do y.

Quotes, please.

[ruru]

205 - I'm an applied math major (and I'm taking game theory next quarter )

Yay

Game related - This entire post kinda feels kinda :/ to me. Like you don't outright call Sajj scum, but indicate you find her sketchy for a variety of reasons. But since you don't really follow that up by trying to sort her by talking to her or by laying down a vote, I kinda feel like you're just making a general observation that you find her sketchy without doing anything about it. It makes me feel like you're comfortable finding her vaguely sketchy

Hmm... I think my post is calling her difficult to read, not particularly scummy. It's interesting that you read it that way. Do you want me to think she is scummy? Would you like to see a wagon on her? If I took your post as motivation to vote, even though you don't find her scummy, would you be held accountable for the wagon?



She's been under pressure all game, but it hasn't helped me develop a read. Personally I would lynch her only as a last resort if we don't accomplish anything before then. And since we have a

lot

of posts on Oxy vs Sajj, I would be much more interested in seeing reactions from someone else at this point. Like you!

without trying to sort her, which feels kinda shade-y to me.

I did spend most of my game time yesterday rereading Oxy vs Sajj and newbie 1859.

[Oxy]

p.edit
I have to wake up early tomorrow and it's alread 10pm so idk if we will get somewhere.

I'll do one more now since I won't be back til after 1am your time.

By successful I meant that you won. I did see your comment in post game, and I do know from your PT that you felt overwhelmed, but you did a great job and everyone who commented on your game agreed.

No mate, I have lost that game. I was lynched.

Welp, that's what I get for not reading the game. As I've stated previously, I read your ISO, I read the PT, and I read some post game comments. I also looked at the first post and it has you listed as still alive. so I figured you had won. I didn't actually read the game itself. fine. you lost the game. Everyone still thinks you did a great job and that you're competent scum.

Primarily your straw man arguments, as detailed minutes ago in 215. (Seriously, Sajj, are you even reading the game?)

214 (215 is your post) isn't an arguement. I'm explaning my pov there.

Yeah, it was my post, and in it I detailed how you had gotten under my skin by using straw man arguments.

No. That is not at all what this is saying. I'll go further and evaluate that statement. You DID have many plans and ideas throughout the PT. Many of them were great ideas. They were mostly reactive in nature, but there were definitely proactive ones as well. Things along the lines of, "we need to kill {player name} because of {game mechanic} and so that {other player name} will suspect so and so." or "I'll go make this argument to accomplish {goal x} which will allow you, meaning your partner, to do y.

Quotes, please.

Do you deny posting ideas like those described in this post? If so, I'll find the quotes.
The posts DO exist. You wrote them, so I'm pretty sure you KNOW they exist. If you're not denying that you had ideas of those sorts, then please don't send me to do busy work. Not only would that be scummy (giving me busy work to tire me out and muddy this thread with extraneous posts would be scum motivated), but it's also just plain disrespectful of my time.

[Scioness Sajj]

Welp, that's what I get for not reading the game. As I've stated previously, I read your ISO, I read the PT, and I read some post game comments. I also looked at the first post and it has you listed as still alive. so I figured you had won. I didn't actually read the game itself. fine. you lost the game. Everyone still thinks you did a great job and that you're competent scum.

You are drawing conclusion from selectively chosen elements. You are not meta reading me objectively. Metareading somebody from their first and only game won't create strong arguements in itself even less so when the arguemnts were never put into a big picture. You are seeing what you want to see now what actually happened. Also consider:
Day 1 - ended at page 5 with VT modkill.
Day 2- three replacemnets get in and a town driven mislynch
Day 3 - big personal fights a VT selfhammered
Day 4 - my scumbuddy got lynched
Day 5 - I got lynched
Those are facts. You've read my ISO, you know I didn't have any proactive play beside an awful hammer attempt Day 3 that I have somehow survived because of really awful ate (I don't really want to talk about this though. You know how I have felt and what I thought about it from scum PT, it should be enough).
Yet you are describing me from my first game as this mastermind scum player, because people at the end said that I played well. You didn't check for yourself. That's a hearesay, you should not ever try to pass something like that as an arguemnt. I know that you are tunneling me so everything that 'proves' your theory is good enough, but that's not how you will catch scum.

Yeah, it was my post, and in it I detailed how you had gotten under my skin by using straw man arguments.

You weren't preceise in 215. I thought that you were reffering to 214 with 215, if that's not it, let me know what else there is.

Do you deny posting ideas like those described in this post? If so, I'll find the quotes.
The posts DO exist. You wrote them, so I'm pretty sure you KNOW they exist. If you're not denying that you had ideas of those sorts, then please don't send me to do busy work. Not only would that be scummy (giving me busy work to tire me out and muddy this thread with extraneous posts would be scum motivated), but it's also just plain disrespectful of my time.

1). I do deny existance of such posts. The things you are describing as mechanics were most likely us trying to figure the set up. We didn't need a PhD in playing scum to figure out those things. Also, I have tripped terribly over first actual mechanic that was used in the game and it was a crossvote. Which isn't terribly complicated in itself but yeah. I don't remember telling Gem (my scum partner) that I will do x so she can do y. I do remember though that I couldn't help her with ideas to what to post on few occasions.
2). I'm not trying to be disrespectful by any means. If you get into this game with an evidence from another game you better link to it so people can judge for themsleves. Nobody should believe anybody just becuase they say so.
3). It is not scummy to want to get evidence into the game.

[ruru]

One other thing I noticed is she likes to not-answer people's questions by asking them a question instead. I think she is doing this more here than she did in 1859.

Could you quote some examples?

31 (Reason or not, the end result is that the questions got answered FILO)
(I falsely remembered 36 as being an example, too, but you did also answer in the same post so scratch this one)
73
111 (Even after answering your question in 118, I still I had to prod you in 160 to get an answer)

I think I have addressed all the things from yesterday, if I have missed anything let me know. I will be bearly present or not all through the weekend, so people with have time to catch up.

Yes, I would probably be trying to lynch you right now if you never answered the original questions at all.

[Drixx]

Just jumping in to let you guys know I'm here and reading up from my last post. Apologies for being less than super active.

[Drixx]

Sorry for multipost... I'm hesitant to really pressure eth0s because he is sick and there is plenty of time in D1 for him to get better first. If people are interested in putting a few votes on Drixx to give him incentive to post, I would be for that.

p. edit - My inability to create a read on you that I am somewhat confident in is stopping me from committing to a read on you. I think I'm being rather clear??

You can try that if you like. The honest truth (and you can feel free to check my games going back to my join if you don't believe me) is that I am as active as I can possibly be regardless of my alignment. I enjoy aspects of all roles and alignments. Mafia is one of my main hobbies and it gets as much time as I can give it. That fluctuates depending on my work and other commitments.

In this case, when I /in as IC, I was expecting another couple weeks before getting a game, as there was a lengthy list ahead of me. So it wasn't my intention to be playing IC in a newbie game at the same time the biggest crunch at work is going on. By the next day phase (unless we move ridiculously fast) I'll be more my usual self.

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I believe that Oxy vs. Sajj is a TvT. There's a lot of indicators there of that. There's an off chance that they are the scum team and putting on quite a lot of theatre, but generally it's crazy risky to go to the extent they have, and I just don't get that vibe.

Out of the players who have posted enough to get an early read on, I would suspect scum is in {ofrhz, eth0s, skitter}.

Most of the game so far is comprised of the Oxy v. Sajj fest so I'd kind of like to see where else we can go before we decide to be locked in there.

[Oxy]

While you're here, can you give us a few lines on why you find those three scummy? Also, which one would you lynch right now if you had to?

[Oxy]

and if you had the time, I'd take a few lines of thoughts on ruru as well

[Drixx]

While you're here, can you give us a few lines on why you find those three scummy? Also, which one would you lynch right now if you had to?

I'll explain why but not yet. I have a good reason for waiting.

[ruru]

@Drixx Also do you mind answering which role you prefer and why before you go?

[Assemblerotws]

pinturicchio replaces westen. VC in the morning.

[pinturicchio]

Hey guys, I'm going to catch up and post my thoughts as soon as I can!

[Drixx]

@Drixx Also do you mind answering which role you prefer and why before you go?

I like a lot of roles ... depending on the setup. I really enjoy being bp, especially if I can draw fire. Had a fantastic perfect themed game (Mafiaception) where I was a BP who got empowered with a vig shot under a certain condition. I got the scum to shoot me twice and made a solid vig shot which helped the win.

I also enjoy being a jk or rb because it rewards me for reading people and figuring out PRs.

If you're asking me which alignment I prefer: that's a hard call. When I joined the site, I definitely preferred scum. I played for the better part of a decade elsewhere and we played faster games (48hr days, 24h nights), and I almost never rolled scum which meant I was one of the best town players. So much so that literally a couple years went by where if I was town I was the n1 kill and if I was alive on day 2 I ate rope.

But then I had last year here on MS where I rolled scum in like a dozen games or something absurd like that. Several of them were large themed games which had thousands and thousands of posts. One of them went on for half the year or something. I was really seriously exhausted at the end of that. The main reason is that (as I said earlier) I always play as active as I have time for, and when I play as scum, I have to put in a lot of time to mimic my town play.

So right now in this moment? I am definitely preferring town. I also feel like it needs the most work (my town game that is).

[pinturicchio]

Ok guys its really late here in Chile and I tried to read everything but somewhere in between became really difficult, and I already convinced myself that Oxy is scum and that his partner is either ruru or ofrhz because of the early towncred to both. A lot of scum motivation there, gives free credit to his partner by giving credit to two players instead of one. The towncred he gives to both is so random I really can't see any other explanation. Also his 1v1 with Scioness seems like building the first mislynch of the game, and he's doing quite good, but nah, you're scum.
VOTE: Oxy

[Oxy]

Welcome to the game, Heisenberg =)

[pinturicchio]

Welcome to the game, Heisenberg =)

Btw, even if I'm scumreading you, I really love your playstyle, it's obvious that you're having fun and your grammar is splendid. I'm not a native english speaker, so your posts are fun to read.

[Oxy]

Thank you! Let's make this game a good one, eh? =)

[Oxy]

Really, thank you. That was a very nice thing to say.

[ofrhz]

I did spend most of my game time yesterday rereading Oxy vs Sajj and newbie 1859.

You mean 1851?
It's hard to metaread Sajj, since she's never played as town before. It's hard to tell whether she's playing as town or has adjusted her scum playstyle in this game. One takeaway is that she never went off at another player for this long in 1851. In general, I don't think scum would stick their necks out this much on day 1, which is why Oxy = town = Sajj

Do you deny posting ideas like those described in this post? If so, I'll find the quotes.
The posts DO exist. You wrote them, so I'm pretty sure you KNOW they exist. If you're not denying that you had ideas of those sorts, then please don't send me to do busy work. Not only would that be scummy (giving me busy work to tire me out and muddy this thread with extraneous posts would be scum motivated), but it's also just plain disrespectful of my time.

To be fair, most of those posts were "omg wtf is happening in this game." Do you think it's worth characterizing someone by cherrypicking a few of posts that are slightly more thought out out of 400+ posts in that thread? (I'm not asking you to find these posts)

[...] Yet you are describing me from my first game as this mastermind scum player, because people at the end said that I played well. You didn't check for yourself.

That's a hearesay, you should not ever try to pass something like that as an arguemnt.

I know that you are tunneling me so everything that 'proves' your theory is good enough, but that's not how you will catch scum.

Are you suggesting Oxy could be lying when he said he thought you won 1851? Stretch.

[...] 1). In 138 Oxy on his own decides to mention that he has read my iso but came up with nothing.

I didn't asked for it, he just thought he would mention it.

This is not true. You asked him for his reads in 133

[...] I already convinced myself that Oxy is scum and that his partner is either ruru or ofrhz because of the early towncred to both.

Early on, skitter also said me and ruru were slightly town (post 87). By this line of reasoning, would she also partnered with one of us?

[ofrhz]

ebwop:
Do you think it's worth characterizing someone by cherrypicking a few of posts --> Do you think it's worth characterizing someone by cherrypicking a few posts
By this line of reasoning, would she also partnered with one of us? --> By this line of reasoning, is she also partnered with one of us?

It's late

[ofrhz]

Out of the players who have posted enough to get an early read on, I would suspect scum is in {ofrhz, eth0s, skitter}.

Y no ruru
Also this list is everyone who's posted up to this point except ruru and yourself (and Oxy and Sajj but I get that you've explained these).

[Scioness Sajj]

One other thing I noticed is she likes to not-answer people's questions by asking them a question instead. I think she is doing this more here than she did in 1859.

Could you quote some examples?

31 (Reason or not, the end result is that the questions got answered FILO)
(I falsely remembered 36 as being an example, too, but you did also answer in the same post so scratch this one)
73
111 (Even after answering your question in 118, I still I had to prod you in 160 to get an answer)

In the original you have said that I didn't answer those question but I did answer everything but 73. So is your original point that instead of answering questions I ask questions or that before I answer qestions I ask questions and then answer?

I think I have addressed all the things from yesterday, if I have missed anything let me know. I will be bearly present or not all through the weekend, so people with have time to catch up.

Yes, I would probably be

trying to lynch you right

now if you never answered the original questions at all.

There is no question in my post there, what exactly are you implying?

Hmm...

I think my post is calling her difficult to read, not particularly scummy.

It's interesting that you read it that way. Do you want me to think she is scummy? Would you like to see a wagon on her? If I took your post as motivation to vote, even though you don't find her scummy, would you be held accountable for the wagon?

She's been under pressure all game, but

it hasn't helped me develop a read.

Personally I would lynch her only as a last resort if we don't accomplish anything before then.

And since we have a lot of posts on Oxy vs Sajj, I would be much more interested in seeing reactions from someone else at this point. Like you!

I'm confused by the chnage of your stance here. Elaborate, please?
Also, do you know or are you guessing what you were trying to say in your orginal post to Skitter?

[Scioness Sajj]

[...] Yet you are describing me from my first game as this mastermind scum player, because people at the end said that I played well. You didn't check for yourself.

That's a hearesay, you should not ever try to pass something like that as an arguemnt.

I know that you are tunneling me so everything that 'proves' your theory is good enough, but that's not how you will catch scum.

Are you suggesting Oxy could be lying when he said he thought you won 1851? Stretch.

No, not at all. Bolded sentence is a follow up on the two pevious sentances. I believe that the part you quote is pretty clear in itself, so I don't know what to explain and bolded part doesn't really refer to your question?

[...] 1). In 138 Oxy on his own decides to mention that he has read my iso but came up with nothing.

I didn't asked for it, he just thought he would mention it.

This is not true. You asked him for his reads in 133

Yes I did. And it was explained by 137. I was content with what he has provided as an answer, I didn't ask for more. I belive he felt that he needed to add more an so he did.