Newbie 1859 (Game Over)

[skitter30]

I'll be back in a few minutes to answer the above posts

[ruru]

Also we appear to have different of what constitutes 'apropriate'. I don't think hammering that wagon if drixx hadn't shown up within a day is 'apropriate'. I don't know what pin thinks about that - he was waiting until he felt better so that he could post his drixx case and I don't know if he would have hammered after 24 hours. I don't feel comfortable being on that wagon.

This still doesn't address why you would remove your vote instantly rather than closer to the deadline. Drixx can't get hammered at 24h if he's not at L-1 in 24h. Like unless everyone actually wants to lose there would at least be an extension of the deadline to argue about it.

[skitter30]

To bring it back full circle, I'm trying to figure out if your reaction to the Drixx wagon and the posts that followed it were the "scum claim" I said I expected scum!Skitter30 to eventually make.

I mean, your immediate reaction to my unvote was to strongly townread me for it so I'm not really sure why you're now wondering if it was a scumclaim.

[Oxy]

@skitter30 Your unvote isn't what I find unreasonable. My read on you is that you read a post and ask yourself, "is this alignment indicative beyond a reasonable doubt?" If the answer is no, you would discount it when making your reads. You told me that was a good description of your town game. When you read my posts leading up to that wagon and conclude that it's scum getting ready to pressure Pin to make a bad hammer, I don't see the level of charity I believe indicative of your town game.

Why can't the following be sincere? Why is the narrative of scum!oxy blatantly leading a wagon into a quick hammer the most reasonable explanation for what happened?

I don't think I've said anything to imply that this

[THE PLAN TO WAGON SOMEONE]

is to be set in stone and nothing could change. In fact, I've called for input and leadership from other players multiple times. Regardless, I'm not going to be party to a lynch a person if they are just straight up away from the site for 24 hours. I also would suggest holding the hammer if they were to be like, "Hey, I really can't post today but if you give me until X time I promise that I'll get you what you're looking for." In that situation, I'd suggest turning the wagon towards someone else for the time being. If they didn't follow through on that promise, I would have no qualms being involved in that lynch.

[Oxy]

To bring it back full circle, I'm trying to figure out if your reaction to the Drixx wagon and the posts that followed it were the "scum claim" I said I expected scum!Skitter30 to eventually make.

I mean, your immediate reaction to my unvote was to strongly townread me for it so I'm not really sure why you're now wondering if it was a scumclaim.

You don't understand why I'm wondering if your recent play, by which I mean the stuff we have been discussing, is a departure from the read I gave on you? I'm not saying I'm convinced that you're scum, but I think it's a reasonable avenue to explore. Do you disagree?

[skitter30]

Also we appear to have different of what constitutes 'apropriate'. I don't think hammering that wagon if drixx hadn't shown up within a day is 'apropriate'. I don't know what pin thinks about that - he was waiting until he felt better so that he could post his drixx case and I don't know if he would have hammered after 24 hours. I don't feel comfortable being on that wagon.

This still doesn't address why you would remove your vote instantly rather than closer to the deadline. Drixx can't get hammered at 24h if he's not at L-1 in 24h. Like unless everyone actually wants to lose there would at least be an extension of the deadline to argue about it.

Maybe I wasn't clear - my initial vote on drixx wasn't an implicit approval of the L-1 deadline thing. I didn't like drixx's post ,so I voted him to pressure him. Concurrently, I thought we were talking about maybe putting someone at L-1 to pressure them to post in 24 hours, but thought that hadn't come to a conclusion yet. My vote wasn't particularly related to this.

Then all of a sudden oxy follows me, apparently cuz I was townread who voted there, and then you followed oxy, and oxy posts 400, which reads to me like he was going through with the L-1 24 hour plan.

And I was literally writing a post about how I didn't really agree with it, so when I saw that I unvoted. I also started to feel like something sketchy was up cuz the wagon formed fast, and cuz I didn't like how oxy was pushing it, and cuz of the pin-hammer thing. Also I never supported the plan in the first place.

[skitter30]

@skitter30 Your unvote isn't what I find unreasonable. My read on you is that you read a post and ask yourself, "is this alignment indicative beyond a reasonable doubt?" If the answer is no, you would discount it when making your reads. You told me that was a good description of your town game. When you read my posts leading up to that wagon and conclude that it's scum getting ready to pressure Pin to make a bad hammer, I don't see the level of charity I believe indicative of your town game.

Why can't the following be sincere? Why is the narrative of scum!oxy blatantly leading a wagon into a quick hammer the most reasonable explanation for what happened?

I don't think I've said anything to imply that this

[THE PLAN TO WAGON SOMEONE]

is to be set in stone and nothing could change. In fact, I've called for input and leadership from other players multiple times. Regardless, I'm not going to be party to a lynch a person if they are just straight up away from the site for 24 hours. I also would suggest holding the hammer if they were to be like, "Hey, I really can't post today but if you give me until X time I promise that I'll get you what you're looking for." In that situation, I'd suggest turning the wagon towards someone else for the time being. If they didn't follow through on that promise, I would have no qualms being involved in that lynch.

Like the posts leading up to the drixx thing were very pocket-y and 'make my townreads feel comfortable wagoning someone'-y.

Like that pin-hammer thing wasn't in isolation, but looked to me like part of a pattern of you trying to cultivate your townreads to join a wagon on any of {eth0s/drixx/sajj/nsg} that the majority of them wanted. Like by itself, sure, my immediate thought wouldn't be that you were trying to pocket pin to get him to hammer, but in the context of you trying to convince your townreads to join a wagon, that comment to pin looked to me like you were looking for the fifth person you'd need to hammer, and that you were trying to make pin amneable to it.

Like a paraphrase/quoting/rephrasing of 379: 'hey team town (oxy/skitter/ruru/ofrzh)! let's work together to wagon any of {nsg/eth0s/drixx/sajj}! I don't care which; I didn't even organize them in order of scumminess! I'll do whatever you guys are cool with! We'll put them at L-1 and give them 24 hours to post something that isn't garbage and we'll hammer* p.s. pin, you're not in the cool town group yet, but you can hammer for us when it becomes apropriate!'

like in that context it does indeed look like you were looking for the fifth person to hammer.

Also the fact that you didn't really care which of those people it was on made me feel like you were just looking to push a lurker lynch.

* I took this to mean that if the people had a scummy response to pressure *or* if they didn't post at all they'd get hammered. And I assumed you meant 'not posting within 24 hours' would be an 'appropriate' reason for pin to hammer.

regarding 464 - that is not how I understood 379, like at all. Like if 464 is what you meant, I did not find that to be clear at all, and *while I was trying to have a convo with you about it* you went through with the plan. Like saying after the fact that I immediately jumped to a scum!oxy narrative is kinda disingenuous when I was in middle of trying to talk to you about and explain why I didn't like it and find out more about your POV and you went forward with it *in middle of that convo.*

Like I vote drixx. (I explained above that I didn't see that as agreeing to your plan.) I say I dont' feel comfortable with hammer. You vote drixx. You tell me that you think hammering after seven days is a good idea to prevent scum from forcing through a bad lynch at deadline. I'm in middle of writing a response to this when ruru votes and you go forward with the plan and I unvote in p-edit cuz I don't agree.

Also 398 implies to me that you'd be fine with a hammer on drixx if he didn't post, which doesn't match up with 464 above, which came after I unvoted and after I gave a lot of pushback.

[ruru]

Maybe I wasn't clear - my initial vote on drixx wasn't an implicit approval of the L-1 deadline thing.

If you were indeed working under the assumption that people will sheep

you

(and not just your vote), starting a wagon with no credible threat behind it sounds like it could be a good way to distance scum!skitter from scum!Drixx while also making it very unlikely that he will ever get lynched D1 (due to a recent wagon on him disbanding) and not making him feel any pressure to post. Let's say scum!Drixx was AFK and scum!skitter wasn't sure whether or not he would be comfortable with having more serious pressure on him. It could also explain why scum!skitter was interested in voting on scum!Drixx at first but panicked after realizing Oxy's plan was still occurring.

[skitter30]

To bring it back full circle, I'm trying to figure out if your reaction to the Drixx wagon and the posts that followed it were the "scum claim" I said I expected scum!Skitter30 to eventually make.

I mean, your immediate reaction to my unvote was to strongly townread me for it so I'm not really sure why you're now wondering if it was a scumclaim.

You don't understand why I'm wondering if your recent play, by which I mean the stuff we have been discussing, is a departure from the read I gave on you? I'm not saying I'm convinced that you're scum, but I think it's a reasonable avenue to explore. Do you disagree?

I kinda feel like ruru mentioned she was suspicious of me and you had indicated you would no longer be supporting a sajj wagon and that you realized you couldn't push pin for pocketing you so you're now probing to see how much support there might be for a wagon on me. Like you're free to explore it but I find the timing odd.

I don't know what you're referring to by recent play.

[Scioness Sajj]

In post 86, Scioness Sajj wrote:
This is my first game I'm actually scumhutning, so I have yet to find scum this wat, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

Scioness says she is scumhunting, but she, at this time, has almost only interacted with Oxy, implying that, without even interacting with the rest, she already caught a mafia member.

I don't understand how you came up with your conclusions. This post you are refering to is taken out of context and misread. It was made on page 4 and it was my answer to Oxy asking how my scumhunting method works. Up to that point I have interacted with ruru, ofrhz, asked eth0s a question and was talking with Oxy. The convo:
Oxy: Do you often find scum by finding details that don't add up in their reads?
Sajj: This is my first game I'm actually scumhutning (meaning game before I was faking scumhunting so I have never scumhunt before = I have no expirence), so I have yet to find scum this wat (I never found scum scumhunting this way before because I never did it), but I see no reason why it wouldn't work(I think it should work that's why I have the approach I have).

I don't understand why you have quoted this post without first sentance that was refering to what we were talking about.

In post 107, Scioness Sajj wrote:
You're not interested in townreads so nah, I have nothing to share with you.

A mild excuse to not provide with a readlist so she doesn't have to commit to any reads at all.

I have explained it before. I asked him for explanation he refused ans said if I want to understand what he meant I can figure out myself since I can read. That was me refering to that moment. Do I need to exlain this further?

In post 144, Scioness Sajj wrote:
You don't want to commit to a read on me, so something is stopping you?

... And the contradiction. She engages with Oxy because he doesn't commit to a read, when she hasn't commited to her reads either. I've seen this before: scum reflects their own behavior on town to make them look as scum.

That's not it. Few posts above I have asked Oxy about his read on me, that was the engage, he said that it was the same and linked me the post. I saw it and let it be. Then Oxy, on his own, added that he had read my iso. An iso from 70 pages long game is a lot of informations so I was curious what he was thinking. I'm aware I have asked about it wrong way and it wasn't clear what I was asking for, I wasn't clear to me when I was asking the questions. It was later talked about.
You have taken one post out a convo that was about 6 post (I don't remember how long it was) where at the end I have communicated clearly enough (I believe for everybody finally) what I was asking him for.
I have NEVER used this post or your interpretations of it as an argument against Oxy.

In post 156, Scioness Sajj wrote:
Yup, that's what I needed, thank you (sorry if getting on your nerves).

town lean: ofrhz
no read need more time: ruru, eth0s, Drixx, skitter30
need to figure out if I'm omgusing: oxy

Scumhunting, but one townlean and no scumreads? This is a really early read so I'm giving you a pass on this, but it's really weird and feels that you gave no content at all, so we still don't know your sorts.

7 pages into the game. I didn't interact much with everybody and things that have been posted have been pretty nai to me. I didn't know there is a requirment of how I am supposed to format my redlist. I have grouped people how I felt about them at that time, I think the groups themsleves explain enough.

In post 258, Scioness Sajj wrote:
In post 252, pinturicchio wrote:
Thanks! By the way, someone already talked about Newbie 1851 and I read that game too; you are on my watch list because of that game, you blended in so good! But I'm townleaning you for now, because the 1v1 with Oxy is an SvT and you are the T.

Oh lol, has somebody not read that game?
I like what you are saying there and I don't. I will need you to explain those reads at some point n the future.

I'm having trouble catching up, why the vote on ruru? Help good ol' Pin please

There are some inconsistencies from Ruru I want to figure out.

This is were I said you were T and Oxy was S; your vote on ruru makes sense with your later explanation (you saying it was a pressure vote), but never explained what inconsistencies you needed to figure out.

It was a pressure vote and a reaction test. You have asked me about this before Ruru answered me. I couldn't give you few sentences long answer at that time becuase the reaction part would got busted. I didn't want to tell you to wait becuase again reaction part would be busted. I didn't want to ignore you so I gave you a generic answer. The inconsistenceis were in my first post to ruru.
I don't think I have to explain everything I do and ask for if nobody is asking. I don't see how this makes me scum.

In post 306, Scioness Sajj wrote:
re convincing - I don't find it scummy in general and especially not in the context Pin used it originally.
------
some updates:
- some people are scumming it up for me, I wanna take a back sit for a moment and watch how all of this plays out
- not in for a ruru lynch or putting her on L-1 so I'm hopping off the wagon

UNVOTE: ruru

Again, you unvoting ruru makes sense, but you said "some people are scumming it up for me", and in reality almost all your interactions kept being an ongoing back and forth with Oxy.

Yeah, I have saw some things as potentially scummy. It were things from Oxy talking to you and/or ofrhz I don't remember if it was him talking to me or talking to somebody else. I'm really not sure if it was one of them or both. I have left it vague on purpose, I wanted to see more content from Oxy (and/or ofrhz) and not alert him/them.

In post 363, Scioness Sajj wrote:
Update on my reads and scumpool since NSG asked:

Ruru - up to a townlean. I think her intentions are geniue. She has 'passed' my pressure vote.
Scumpool of {Oxy, ofrhz}
ofrhz - towny on his own, I don't like his play that much after the scumteam of Oxy/ofrhz has been mentioned, though.
Oxy - since I have made my post with reasoning on my townlean he has been proving me wrong. If one is scum so is the other imo.

Don't really see a reason to wagon inactive slots (drixx & eth0s). Drixx has no reason to lurk and eth0s is inactive in both of his games.

VOTE: oxy

And here's the punchline. You said you would take a back sit and watch how the game goes on, but you vote for Oxy instead. You were asked to give a readlist, and maybe you felt the pressure to place a vote to suit your narrative, but you said a few posts ago that you had to sort your reads again. Also, as I said in my post above, the timing for you placing the vote is perfect: I ceased my case on {Oxy, ofrhz} and you take it back to the game with no further explanation. You never talked about it, you never said anything at all about my case. I would have understood you voting Oxy, but bringing up ofrhz into the equation is opportunistic.

As I have said I wanted to watch for some time I have got engaged by ofrhz and NSG. You have missed the post when I mentioned that 324.
You have dropped your case on Oxy in 320 I have voted Oxy in post 363. I don't see how it was perfect for me to bring it back when you stopped and went to town reading him, and nobody showed any interest in lynching him. Also my case on Oxy was based mostly on my previous expirences with him. Not the things you have dropped.
Again, I don't see why I have to first explain everything and then go to makig cases/interacting with people. I didn't plan on making case on ofrhz on his own, the case on oxy has been made next day when I got back to the thread. Up to this point I have been realy confused about how to read Oxy, at that point I have made my mind.
You call bringing ofrhz into equation opportunistic, I call it a side effect to tunneling Oxy.
I agree that to vote might have been somehow premature but I have made my mind at that time about making case for oxy. I didn't explain it further because I wasn't thinking of making big announcemnt of the case I was about to make. I wanted to leave readlist for NSG because she asked, that was the readlist.
I engage you about one thing after you have dropped your case on Oxy, you said you would get back to it but you never did. I didn't bought it up again, because knowing your opinion on that matter wasn't really that important to me.

[Oxy]

@skitter30

P.S. @Pinturicchio I'm not giving you a team jersey yet, but you can drop the hammer if/when it becomes appropriate.

Is it possible that I really meant the part where I said "If/when it becomes appropriate" or did I unequivocally want him to hammer?

I called it 'grooming' before -> the 'team jersey' bit made it look to me like you were trying to make him amenable to doing that. Like he's got you as conf-town - you telling him he'd get a 'team jersey' if he hammered looks to me like you were trying to make him want him to do that to join the town bloc you were forming.

Clarifying this: that section of 379 means "Pinturicchio, I'm not reading you as town yet [differentiating between him and the three of you I was calling team town], but you can drop the hammer if/when it becomes appropriate." and not "Pinturicchio, I'll call you town if you drop the hammer if/when it becomes appropriate."

Now that you understand that I wasn't telling him that he would get a town read if he hammered, does that change your read on the situation at all?

[Scioness Sajj]

488 - I have voted Oxy and said I'm scumreading him before you all have went into lynching lurkers. So it was a moment when nobody was actively considering Oxy as scum.

I considered Oxy scum even before replacing in; I stated that before.

Yeah, you did by you've dropped before I made my case. I don't see why it matters what you thought before the game in the context on me making case on Oxy.

[Oxy]

@scioness sajj I promised not to engage you, so please feel free to ignore this. I'm hoping we're past that, but I understand if we're not.

Now that I'm town reading you, I'd really like an updated read list from you.

[skitter30]

Maybe I wasn't clear - my initial vote on drixx wasn't an implicit approval of the L-1 deadline thing.

If you were indeed working under the assumption that people will sheep

you

(and not just your vote), starting a wagon with no credible threat behind it sounds like it could be a good way to distance scum!skitter from scum!Drixx while also making it very unlikely that he will ever get lynched D1 (due to a recent wagon on him disbanding) and not making him feel any pressure to post. Let's say scum!Drixx was AFK and scum!skitter wasn't sure whether or not he would be comfortable with having more serious pressure on him. It could also explain why scum!skitter was interested in voting on scum!Drixx at first but panicked after realizing Oxy's plan was still occurring.

I can understand why you'd think that but that isn't what was happening.

I wanted to pressure drixx to explain his post. I was not expecting two votes + a 24-hour deadline to be imposed immediately thereafter. I on principle don't feel comfortable threatening to vote someone that isn't here because they aren't here if I have no reason to believe their absence is AI.

Also if it's me/drixx, scum!me has no reason to pick drixx to vote out of {scioness/nsg/drixx/eth0s} there if that was the proposed plan. I could very easily have voted eth0s; there were two votes there and I could've just let the 24-hour lynch thing happen without involving partner!drixx in it at all to get a mislynch and let the day end fast. Like if I was scum with drixx there's no reason for me not to just support the plan on anyone not my partner without starting all of this in the first place.

[Oxy]

geez, sorry skitter, i completely missed that you have responded like 4 times. I don't know how. reading them now

[skitter30]

@oxy: I understand the distinction you're drawing but it still looks to me like you were looking for someone to hammer - like you were giving him permission to hammer almost. And *in the context of the first paragraph of 379*, it has pocket-y overtones.

[Oxy]

Answering 631

I was looking for a potential 5th vote. Specifically, I was looking for someone who I wasn't sure of so that I could force them to take a stand on whatever Drixx ended up posting. My goal was to make Pin decide whether or not to give intent to hammer, and to tell me why.

I was cool with any of those people because the purpose of the exercise was to pressure people into engaging with us so we could sort them. For that reason, I gave a list of people in the order of most interested in sorting them to least interested in sorting. More simply, priority.

When you gave your drixx vote, you said you weren't comfortable hammering yet. I didn't argue with you because there was no argument to be made. To lynch or not lynch was a decision to be made after pressuring him into posting. (yes, I understand that to have been a futile attempt with Drixx, specifically, but I didn't know he was going to continue posting once every 3 days.)

When you say that "I went through with the plan" I find that disingenuous because a) I can't force pin to give intent b) I can't force anyone to stay on the wagon, and c) we could have had this entire conversation with you on/off the wagon instead of you telling me that I was pushing a lynch. You WERE town reading me at that point. Why not have the conversation you're saying I was dodging? And at the point I voted, the "conversation" was a one liner from you saying you weren't comfortable with a lynch in the middle of a wall of unrelated items. I didn't even know we were having a conversation.

I can see how 398 would imply that, rather explicitly actually. Believe it or not, I was referring to his entire game, not the following 24 hours.


answering 633
By recent play, I'm referencing all of what we've been discussing this evening about your play.
That's a great narrative for scum!oxy. Could it also be that I've got a million town reads, and I'm reevaluating people because I'm probably wrong somewhere?

[skitter30]

Also I want to reiterate that 560 - 568 really look like oxy thought he had could make a pin push based on pin pocketing him, so he changed his readslist to match, and started pushing it, and once he realized he couldn't back it up he dropped it.

Like I don't understand the start of 565 or 563 juxtaposed with 567. Like 565 reads as the start of a case in a very high-level sense, and when he went back to read the actual posts they didn't match what he was pushing. Like he has a very serious scumread on him because of pocketing, changes his readslist to match, but just drops it.

It also like came out of left-field and was just really, really weird timing. This push might honestly be the scummiest set of posts in the game imo.

I have not read any of scioness' posts from tonight; I'll look at them in the morning.

p-edit: I also have not read oxy's latest post but I'm going to bed now and I'll look at it tomorrow.

[Oxy]

I can see how 398 would imply that, rather explicitly actually. Believe it or not, I was referring to his entire game, not the following 24 hours.

further on this: I meant to imply that the wagon was being put on him because of inactivity, and that if he got mislynched after posting, that mislynch would have it's origins in his inactivity.

[Scioness Sajj]

Quote n°2: read my post on context: she was saying that there was no reason to go back to Oxy, and I said that the timing for going back was perfect, because she voted Oxy long time ago, but you recently started to suspect him and it's a good time to explain her read.

Skitter answered it I belive but again. My last post that day was readlist, then I have went to do other things and went to sleep. I got back to the thread next day, I have read what you have wrote in the meantime I commented on it I talked a little with Ruru and went back to things went I have left them. I have answered ofrhz, I have also answered skitter and made a case that I just kept in the same post.

When I posted my vote I didn't know what would happen that night and who would became suspicous of him and who wouldn't. You say it here like I had no other choice then to explain my case, but I had to do it anyways, doesn't matter my alignment because I have post my vote ealier and people would start asking at some point if I weren't to deliver. Skitter already asked when I was away.

[Oxy]

Also I want to reiterate that 560 - 568 really look like oxy thought he had could make a pin push based on pin pocketing him, so he changed his readslist to match, and started pushing it, and once he realized he couldn't back it up he dropped it.

Like I don't understand the start of 565 or 563 juxtaposed with 567. Like 565 reads as the start of a case in a very high-level sense, and when he went back to read the actual posts they didn't match what he was pushing. Like he has a very serious scumread on him because of pocketing, changes his readslist to match, but just drops it.

It also like came out of left-field and was just really, really weird timing. This push might honestly be the scummiest set of posts in the game imo.

I have not read any of scioness' posts from tonight; I'll look at them in the morning.

p-edit: I also have not read oxy's latest post but I'm going to bed now and I'll look at it tomorrow.

That's exactly what happened. I was in my kitchen getting a drink and thinking about the game, specifically about how I probably have town read a scum, and wondering if I had been pocketed. That thought reminded me of an inkling I had on a couple of occasions about Pin pocketing me. I then remembered the super friendly intro to the game, and Pin's post to Sajj just before he cased her. That seemed like a scum pattern in my head, like scum!pin trying to fake scumhunt without inspiring too much omgus, so I came back and posted my readlist and my vote. I wasn't actually planning on making a case (believe it or not, I really meant to play a quiet game for a while), but he engaged me about it, so I went to pull out quotes that showed what I remembered. They weren't there. I dropped the case.

I don't understand the timing argument. I've got a million town reads. What better time for me to figure out who is scum?

[Oxy]

More specifically, his other posts didn't just not support the case. His tone throughout his game made me conclude that he wasn't targeting the people he scum read for pocketing. Ya'll don't have to like the cases I post, but I'm only going to push a case that I like.

[Oxy]

I don't think this is the scum claim I was looking for. Your pov of the post Drixx wagon time is a lot more reasonable than I had come to believe. I'm glad we had this conversation. I'm going to reread ruru/Ofrhz tomorrow.

[ruru]

Also if it's me/drixx, scum!me has no reason to pick drixx to vote out of {scioness/nsg/drixx/eth0s} there if that was the proposed plan. I could very easily have voted eth0s; there were two votes there and I could've just let the 24-hour lynch thing happen without involving partner!drixx in it at all to get a mislynch and let the day end fast. Like if I was scum with drixx there's no reason for me not to just support the plan on anyone not my partner without starting all of this in the first place.

I'm not sure I agree that there is no benefit to scum!skitter in choosing scum!Drixx (and I mentioned some of the benefits in my post), but I still need to think a bit more on whether or not scum!skitter would actually do it. And I really don't think it's an alternative to "just let the 24-hour lynch thing happen [...] to get a mislynch and let the day end fast". I find it really hard to imagine a universe where that actually happens, and actively pushing it after 24h would make you look extremely scummy.

Also, I agree that Oxy's vote on pin was weirdly timed, but I feel like it was not necessarily out of character.

[Scioness Sajj]

btw scum!me has virtually no reason to go back to oxy now, when people has moved on and are about to lynch lurkers. The only reason for scum!me to push back now would be if you were about to lynch my scum mate but that would mean second scum is in {drixxx, eth0s} but I'd gain towncred from bussing then getting myself into the spotlight for refusing to lynch a lurker.

scum!me would also benefit more from having a scum lean on ruru and me not doing it would me that ruru is scum. but then scum me would have no reason to go back to mislynching oxy isntead of going with a luker lynch.

And I have no problems with your posts in 477 and 479, but this one is terrible. Not only because the self awareness, but because you've been reading the thread, and you know that going back to Oxy RIGHT NOW is the best timing for doing it, since skitter stopped voting Drixx and started to have suspicions on Oxy's motivations. So you building a case on Oxy now is well-timed and a great scum strategy.

Almost missed this.
I have sort of answered this before I think. This post was prompt by Oxy's comments after I have made my case but I don't think it matters that much.
I still don't understand why me or anybody in this situation would go for forcing a mislynch.
I didn't really make a case it was there all the time, the core of things was the things I was wondering about before. Ealier I had the town lean on him because of my rationale, but my rationale was proved wrong.